Hello, new to this forum. Brother has a 580D case backhoe. Always worked fine. Now the boom and bucket power is diminished so you can barley dig with it. Stabilizers lift machine easily at idle, boom swing has plenty of power to move 3000Lb rocks (sliding them off to side). Front bucket has plenty of power. Based on this I figured the pump is fine. I replaced the orings and dust seal on all four spools for back arm/bucket since they were shot. This fixed the leaks but still lacking power. Is there a control valve that affects just the back bucket/arm? It seems odd that all 3 (boom lift, boom drag, bucket curl) would "fail" at once. There is enough power to lift boom arm, and seals/packings are fine to lift and hold boom up, just no digging power like it used to have. Thanks!
What oil are you running and is the old filter around, to be opened up, to look for problems? Not sure about D’s but my 580 SE has quick connections for the hoe to be removed and caught one of the collars with a branch and popped it off but I lost everything in the back. Can you isolate it to the exact cylinders that aren’t performing well and can you see if they get hot while trying to use!
check circuit relief valve pessures
My brother said he is using same oil type for years and always had no issues. All the hoe attachment cylinders are acting up. Boom Dig. Lift and. Hoe bucket. Front bucket fine stabilizers fine and hoe swing fine. Don’t think oil would be issue if these are all fine. Just read in manual that there may be a main hoe relief valve next to front bucket spool valves. Could possibly be that
Do what Dave sez first. If they are OK, the cylinders probably need new piston rings. There is also a possibility the spools in the control valves are worn out or damaged or both.
Check and see if your model has a boom lock section. I've seen these these disconnected at the control tower but still hydraulically connected under the floor. If this valve fails or partially closes it will cause a loss of power in the boom and effect controls down stream.
Here is pic of 580D loader control valve from Messick"s. Fitting #17 is power beyond fitting, if same as 580C this controls flow back to hoe valve, check and replace those o-rings, fitting #14 is where you can attach a 3000lb. hydraulic line/gauge to check system pressure. Have also read here before about afore mentioned quick connects not being firmly connected or crap lodged in them. Happy hunting.
No experience with backhoes but with everyone suggesting to look at quick connects I can confirm they can be an issue. I had a tractor with front mounted arms and bucket that suddenly lost power to a couple of the functions, after chasing thru the cylinders and valve I checked and found one of the quick couplers (that have never been used) had grooves worn in the lock collar from the ball bearings that retain the male portion into the female and this allowed the connection to not leak but also not allow full flow thru it resulting in the loss of power. Again I understand I'm not talking about the same equipment but quick couplers are quick couplers and mine looked fine upon a quick visual inspection. Replaceing the coupler in question (both male and female sides) and everything returned to normal.
I changed the quick couplers on my Cat backhoe for that reason. I heard the couplers can wear and not allow full flow. Mine still worked but the balls were definitely worn with flat spots on them. I had trouble getting the quick couplers apart too but it might have partially been due to I didn't fully relief all the oil pressure. I used Stucchi couplers rated for a higher flow than the machine had. Cat wanted a ridiculous price for the OEM couplers. I got the Stucchi couplers and adaptor fittings for less than what one side of the Cat coupler cost. Cat OEM would have cost close to $500.
Thanks! this would make sense if it were the issue since many of the boom functions are affected at the same time...it would seem rare that numerous gland packings in the cylinders or all spools were bad at once.. Appreciate the info. will check out this weekend
Thanks for the reply..I will get a chance to check them out this weekend...I thought about the spools and packings in cylinders but the odds of all going exactly at same time are rare! Whatever it is it has to affect all back boom/bucket functions
Thanks for the reply...I will have to see if I have that section on my machine.. I know I have the manual boom lock for transporting; not sure what the function of the boom lock you mention but will checkout
Appreciate the input! Something I will have to check out first and see if any issues there.
By all means check the power beyond fitting in the loader control valve. Could very well be your problem. Question - If you hold the boom cylinder on full raise, at relief pressure, does any other circuit move?
No All circuits seem to function as normal just not much power at all. All cylinders hold pressure and don’t fade back down (good piston packings)
I took some pics of the valve assembly that controls the front bucket. Can you. Or anybody point out the power beyond fitting? What is the square aluminum blocks function. Brother said it was leaking and end plug came out! He said maybe some parts missing!♀️
Now I’m thinking that the power beyond fitting or valve is not on the loader valve. Nothing at all there. Thinking it might be the orange block attached to my hoe spool valve block right after the quick disconnect under rear control levers. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance
So my manual shows the power flow fitting as one of the exits from front loader valve But for life of me can’t find it on machine. Here is pic of both. I unscrewed cap on 90 degree fitting marked “to hoe” and nothing. Unless it’s in the portion with cast housing
580D's were sold with either a Parker or Hydreco loader valve. Look in the parts book to identify which one is on ur machine.
Also from Messick's website, note orientation of valve, it's mounted sideways, power beyond fitting is on top. Follow my fat finger, think that's your fitting.
Mine have Parker hannifin
Great! Really appreciate the help. Will check it this week
Why does the exploded view just show a fitting and not the details of a valve in the housing?
I believe u are right!! I can’t pull that vertical fitting up and out since it hits the floor pan!? Any ideas? Might have to loosen whole control valve mounting bolts as well as some lines. Here are a few pics. I think I see the power beyond valve sleeve thru the fitting I removed. Can you confirm?
You are correct sir. Thanks! I read you need a 90 durometer oring. Any idea where you can get these?
Try McMaster-Carr.
Buy once, cry once. Go to Messick's site, look up page in post #7 and look up corresponding part #s for o-rings and be sure to have correct parts the 1st time. Gonna pay dealer price, but don't have to do over again after ordering wrong size or wrong material. If you're confident you can get correct aftermarket rings, have at it, it's your time and money. For reference Google Case 580D hydraulic system diagram, scroll down to Messick's site and 580D hyd. should magically appear, in the right "box" scroll down to category in post #7 and part #s will accompany the diagram. Good luck. EDIT..... Picture in post #7 is for hydreco valve, page 310 is for Parker 2 spool valve, different animal. Carry on. Stinky.
No one needs to go to a Case Construction dealer to get Case parts. Most any CNH (AG) farm equipment dealer can get Case OEM parts. Their software will show where in the US the parts are located and how many are available.
.... unfortunately, resealing that power beyond wont fix your problem. TIP - The CNH parts book gives you the oring size & duro #14 is a 916 90 duro #15 is a 119 75 duro (70 will do but can fit a 90 if you wish)
Case (CNH) Ag dealer, used to be Lamb and Webster bought about 5 yrs. ago by Monroe Tractor, walking distance from my house, can not order construction parts from that store. Fluids, common wear parts, o-rings, maybe, but territorial, proprietary crap don't flush. Still paying same premium at CNH ag as construction, same bin and part #. The fact that o-rings are still intact makes that fix unlikely, you're already apart, replace them anyway. have you checked system pressure with a gauge yet?
Yes exactly the same in Australia, rural have AG dealers' only and first attempt they will report "we can't supply Industrial / Construction." Next ask them to source a part # you know in the database. Problem solved, they can supply and surf the inventory as any other.
I ordered from Messicks. Thanks
Drained all fluid to replace seal on steering shaft. Can’t check system pressure until reassembly
UPDATE: father-in-law with Parkinson’s needed me so been idle for a little while . Was able to run a neutral and load system check. Neutral around 150 psi below the 400 max spec. So good there. When I curl the front bucket it hits 2400 psi and goes into bypass. When I curl the backhoe attachment bucket only hits 1500 psi. When I bottom out lifting backhoe boom only hits 1000 psi. Spool valve orings all replaced and new seals in backhoe boom. Going to power wash underside and check boom quick disconnect. Appreciate all the input from all of you guys!
You and dodgeboy were correct. Check out the return line quick disconnect. Totally shot. Not sure if this is my issue but will replace and see
You and dodgeboy were correct about bad couplings. This was on the return line so not sure if it affected my power to the hoe. Will replace both and see what affect it has
@ 9-7-26 UPDATE.. @alrman @Tinkerer @Dave Neubert Appreciate all the great help everyone has given me on this issue...still stumped. The latest are the results of the system pressure testing. Need to know the next steps. Pressure gage installed on control block coming from pump as shown in a prior picture. -curl front bucket to stop achieves 2700 psi (both cylinders are leaking and need to have seals/piston seals replaced) -lift front bucket to stop 3000 psi -retract stabilizer arms to stop 3000 psi -curl hoe bucket to stop 2200 psi -pull hoe dipper arm in to stop as well as extend it to stop 1700 psi -lift hoe arm to stop 2400 psi -swing hoe arm left or right 2400 psi Pressure gage installed on steering relief valve per service manual test procedure: -pressure at 200 psi neutral (spec says less than 500 good) -pull hoe dipper arm in to stop pressure drops to 100 psi (one section in manual says it should show 2800 psi, another section says to perform the next test mentioned ) -Per manual, max out steering to left or right should be 2050-2150, mine reads 1700 psi. With steering maxed out, pull dipper arm in, spec. says 2850-3150, mine reads 2200 psi Manual states that if I don't achieve the 2050-2150 when maxing out the steering alone, to adjust the pressure on the steering relief valve. Offhand I did not see anything on valve that would let me do this. Manual states that if I don't achieve the 2850-3150 with steering maxed and dipper arm pulled in then the piston in the steering relief valve may be stuck and to disassemble the assembly and fix. Another section in manual states that if I am not achieving the correct pressures to disassemble the unloader valve. Front bucket pressures seem good so am ruling out the pump being bad. Back hoe pressures low but dipper arm is lowest and this affects my digging. We had just installed new seals/piston seals on the dipper arm so ruling out bad seals. I also tightened the bypass valve on this individual spool for the dipper 1.5 turns and it had zero affect. Any ideas for next steps guys? thanks! BTW I replaced the quick disconnects as stated in a prior post. The return line was very bad, the input line was not as bad but both not good.
The unloader valve only exists on the 580D. It is directly under the steering relief valve. It acts as a priority valve, sensing steering demand & diverting hyd flow to the steering - from the hoe supply. It could very well be your problem.
I will have to disassemble that to see if that may be the problem Thanks! Should I try to adjust the pressure on the steering relief valve first, or disassemble that first?