I couldn't get the "con gland" (part 4 in the photos / diagram) out while the cylinders were on the backhoe (I tried that first), so now I have them off and need to tray and get them loose. (for the tribulations getting them off, see here . . . HeavyEquipmentForums ) This is what I'm trying to get off. New item by D. H. photos.app.goo.gl (I guess it's called a CON Gland?) New item by D. H. photos.app.goo.gl New item by D. H. photos.app.goo.gl These are the tools I tried with the cylinders on the backhoe - couldn't get enough purchase / torque. New item by D. H. photos.app.goo.gl These "con glands" just aren't the easiest design to remove if they're stuck. It's not the same as a stock bolt or nut. Anyway . . . Anyone have any tips or tricks for this? Both from the perspective of keeping it steady to apply torque, and how to apply the necessary torque. I'm thinking I'm going to heat both and douse with lubricant before I try again. I may actually set the end in a bucket of penetrating oil after heating it to see if that helps. Depending on how bad it gets I may tap the Con Gland holes to try and thread bolts in there to better keep a grip . . . but I'm worried if I try to tap for threads I may ruin the piece, which would probably scrap the whole cylinder (not sure i could find just a "con gland" for sale). Thank you for any thoughts.
I've used a large pipe wrench with a 12' snipe and also once used my gland wrench with a 12' snipe. They can sure be a bear to get loose.
It does seem like the Gland is a little raised from the cylinder, so a pipe wrench may be possible. And maybe I can even add some material to get a better purchase if necessary (attach something to the gland to give more purchase). I'm not familiar with the term "snipe" - what is that? I would think it might be a typo but you used pipe in the same sentence, so I think you meant snipe. Thank you.
Not being a smartass, but you did remove the little keeper screw from the cylinder/gland right. The consensus here for a difficult gland is the "peening" method that involves tapping the outside of the cylinder/gland with ball-peen hammer at the threads to loosen it up. Used a 4 ft. pipe wrench on the gland when doing them on several cylinders before with great success, just be careful not to chowder the gland. Snipe probably = extension.
Not taken as smartass at all, as I have forgotten to remove the keeper screw before . . . but these cylinders don't have them. I will definitely try the "peening" method - I was not aware of that. 4' pipe wrench sounds effective. It sounds like you guys aren't having trouble getting purchase on the gland, vice the cylinder. Good to know.
And when I say "don't have them" - I mean they're not present. They should be, but they're not. When I put them back together I'll have to find the proper set screw.
Just checkin', sometimes they're even broken off but will still set high enough to drive you nuts. When you do the peening, do it all the way around cylinder at least far enough to cover the entire gland. Hammer the crap out of it but be careful not to hammer the end out of round. If you're really ambitious you can search for previous threads that have pictures and everything. EDIT: peen the crap out of it gently.
I know this is posted elsewhere, but just as easy to put it here again. Dont be shy with the hammer!
Love it, thank you. I'll give this a shot.
Thank you for providing that specific explanation (from 2009 no less!) - I will forego heat and try this first. Thanks to everyone who has offered advice on this.
Please make sure there is no broken off screw as all my Case cylinders have had them so far. The stabilizer cylinders had both broken off and they were hard to spot. I drilled them out and the gland nuts spun off by hand with the tool.
Will do!
If it's banged up from rocks where the two surfaces meet I've taken an angle grinder with a cutoff blade and ground lightly all the way around with the edge toward the cylinder to remove any burrs from dings that could impede loosening the end cap.
Took 2 guys on the end of an 8 ft pipe on the gland wrench to break my dipper cylinder gland free. Had to heat and tap with hammer as described earlier. Left it on the machine to hold the other end. Then I brought to the hydraulic shop because I couldn’t get the piston nut off. He told me they never heat as it could deform. Guess I was lucky. Used penetrating oil as well. Shop owner told me they have some kind of special machine or tool for gland removal but I would have liked to see it.
He told me the torque number it was capable of but I only remember it was very impressive
Actually just remembered, had a come along pulling down on the pipe to my truck trailer hitch. Heated, stood on the tailgate and hit the end of the pipe with a sledge to get break free.
i'm new to the backhoe world and cylinder repair. where it's the screw that breaks off located. my new to me 580D has a cylinder on the backhoe leaking that i'll need to repair soon.
My “K” glands have a little set screw on the edge of gland where it meets the cylinder. Can’t miss it unless it’s full of dirt and painted yellow. Anyone with a “D”?
My Case 580 E has little machine screws with 5/16” heads and I believe 8/32 threads. When the heads are broke off and cylinder ends are banged up, they can be hard to spot. One of my stabilizers, PO had rotated it so it was on the inside so I had to take cylinder off and rotate to drill it out and then it spun off. The only reason I found it was one of the rags caught a thread on the stub and there it was.
Welcome to the forum Doyle. Do you have the manuals for your new treasure? If not you should get 'em. cause you're gonna need 'em. The parts manual especially is a giant asset when trying to order aftermarket parts online using the correct part numbers.
I got one of the glands off by putting the cylinder in a 6" vice and using a Harbor Freight 3' pipe wrench and hammer blows to it. The 3' pipe wrench was only $20, but is BARELY big enough for the job. I figured I would give it a try given the 4' pipe wrench was many times the cost. It worked for the first one, we'll see if it works for the second one. I started off using a ball peen hammer as described above, but when it wasn't moving after doing that I just started hitting it with a 5 lb hammer pretty hard. Before doing the hammer blows I cleaned out as much dirt between the gland and the cylinder as I could and tried to get some lubricant in there. I'm not sure that did anything, but I will say that when I got it apart there was a lot of corrosion and rust there, so I'm not sure if that is where it was seized or not. Maybe it helped. I think it was just a matter of really banging on it and then getting a big enough wrench. I also think I'm going to have to go get a 3/4 inch air impact to get the piston nut off. On the last cylinder I did my old (corded) 3/4 inch impact couldn't do it, my small air impact couldn't do it, and a newer harbor freight 3/4 inch (corded) impact couldn't do it. I think I'm going to step up to a 3/4 inch earthquake and set up my air compressor for the bigger lines. Since I'm going to no doubt have to do every cylinder on this machine eventually I might as well stop messing around.
Stinky64, where do you get a parts manual? I was just thinking I need to figure out what types of lines feed these swing cylinders because I'm going to replace all of them while I'm in there (3 of them clearly need it). I was wondering if there is something (perhaps a parts manual) that will tell me what types of lines they are and the fittings on the end so that I can have them made (I generally get my lines made @ discounthydraulichose.com - if someone knows something better, let me know). I'm so sick of having to figure out what every line is . . . inevitably I make at least one mistake and those lines are expensive mistakes.
Got the manuals for 580C from peaceful creek manuals on ebay. Just did a search, Case 580D service, parts and operators manuals for about $150 all quality reprints. I'm a paper kinda guy, if you want to download manuals they're available on ebay as well. As far as hyd. lines I just take them to a hydraulic shop, put them on the counter and they make new ones no guessing. Lucky for me I can chuck a tater and just about hit the Massey dealer/ farm supply and prices are pretty reasonable for good quality hoses. Garbage freight Earthquake 3/4 impact actually has more ass than Ingersol 3/4 composite it replaced. Make sure to use the super coupon.
I've heard the NAPA (which is sort of a "super" NAPA - has a huge shop attached to it) near where the equipment is does hydraulic lines . . . if that is the case I'm going to start going there and doing what you do - slapping the lines on the counter and saying "save me."
As update, got the other gland loose too. Same technique, beat the cylinder with a 5lb hammer where it mates to the gland (see pictures above), 36" Harbor fright pipe wrench (a 48" would definitely be better given the bigger jaws . . . but you can JUST make the 36" work, and it's only ~$20 at HF), Cylinder locked in a 6" vise, and beat on the 36" pipe wrench with the 5lb hammer until it budged. I was worried the pipe wrench adjuster was going to break given I think it was holding the jaw by one thread, but it didn't. The pipe wrench left numerous gouges in the exterior rim of the gland, but the gland is still serviceable. Also, I was able to get the piston bolts out using a harbor freight 3/4" Earthquake XT. I had to turn the pressure up on my compressor to about 150PSI (I normally don't run it that high because I don't need that much pressure), but then it came off pretty easy. Without the Earthquake I had to take the piston to a heavy duty mechanic shop to have them bust the bolt loose. Of all the cylinders I've done so far, these swing cylinders have by far been the worst.
Thanks for the update! Some frown on the pipe wrench marks, but the pipe wrench will do the job, and as you mentioned, it does not hurt the gland. I am glad it all worked out for you!
Why use a pipe wrench and mark the crap out of the gland? Can you not use the correct spanner? I had a couple of glands that some person used a punch and rounded the holes out and I took the time to weld them up and used a drill bit and an endmill to clean it up.
I was getting pretty good purchase on these (2 of the holes were rounded, two weren't) and they still weren't budging using the spanners. The pipe wrench was not the first choice. I tried to 2 separate types of spanners prior. What I don't understand is why they didn't thread the holes and put bolts in them to protect the threads, then when you needed to remove the gland you would take the bolts out, install a spanner with threaded ends and use that. Seems to me that would have been the way to do it.
No need for threaded pin holes for a gland wrench. They can be cleaned out with a drill. If you have the proper gland wrench there is never a need to put pipe wrench on a gland. Previously damaged pin holes - I simply drill new ones. Anyone that attempts to remove a gland should have one of these before ever starting.
When I say "spanner" above, I mean gland wrench. I tried the one in your photo - would not budge. I also tried a meatier model with a very long pipe on the end of it for leverage. Would not budge. Even when the gland wrenches were placed in the non-rounded holes of the gland the tool would come out of the holes (due to torque) prior to the gland moving. I tried to remove the glands on the tractor (when they were attached and stable). Nothing. I like your drilling new holes idea (and the previous post about welding to fix the holes is also a good idea - though my welding isn't great), but if the gland wrench is coming out of the (non-threaded) holes due to extreme torque (which mine was), then I'm not sure that solves the issue of extracting a really stuck gland. I would encourage everyone to start with the gland wrenches and escalate from there. This is my first time having to use a pipe wrench on a gland. Hopefully it will be my last.
When the spanner type with the pins doesn’t work, i use an large OTC chain wrench with a snipe. It usually works but its tricky to get the chain to only grab the gland
I find this forum a week ago. Last year I spent a month on a dipper gland. 2 spanner wrenches (one actually bent over the cylinder), Long jack (dead now), F250 full of rock(took the back window with that Einstein move) and hammer tap. Some heat and a few taps and im thinkin "surrrreee). I tack a half inch collar on it and grab it with the pipe wrench. cast pipe wrench that is(Dead). So we go for heat. So hes pullen as Im heating. It finally turned. The whole top of the cylinder was bright orange. I would guess it to be one piece now. Swing cylinder gland......Locked up. Thats when I find this site, you Sir specifically. Not the hammer again. I kept failing so I came back. This time I saw the small type "50 year union mechanic /welder". Im still lost for words. So I find your detailed post about this. I start over and do the ballpeen just like you said. It broke with nothing more than the standard wrench the next day. 45 year teamster. Landfill heavy equipment operator.This is to the Tinkerer specifically. However I now see a lot of experience here. Im grateful to all of you. hope i didnt ramble to much for first post
Jump off a bridge will ya
As others have thankfully written here, peening the cylinder in way of the gland is 100% the way to go. Had the same problem and struggled for days to try to unscrew it, ending up with a 4 metre pipe on the end of a 1.5 meter pipe son the bar of the ¾ socket wrench. Two of us then were totally unable to put wind under the glans - but did very successfully shear one of the pins in the special tool * Duh !!. Fortunately, I have a lathe, so this morning I made a replacement pin out of the shank of an SDS Chisel (forget mild steel!!). I deliberately made the diameter of the pin just a little bigger than the 7 mm diam hole in the gland. This allowed me to tap the pin in so it was tight in the hole, and stopped the special tool slipping out as it had been doing previously. Then following the advice of some kind soul on here I think it was, i got a heavy duty masonry hammer drill Using another tool made from another SDS Chisel turned flat after cutting off the blade, I gave the cylinder a severe peening all round, as well as the top surface of the gland with the pinholes for the special tool.Then, with a short pipe about 50 cm long on the socket drive bar, I had another try to unscrew the gland. I was successful, and surprised how little effort was now needed. So, Chaps as others have said, and I proved today - PEEN PEEN PEEN, Hope you all are as successful as I was.
I hope that everyone is aware that the gland wrench that was posted, has the ability to tighten the Allen head screw that pivots, so that it stays the distance between pins so that it doesn’t flop around. Makes it much easier to use if it doesn’t move around and much faster to use once the gland is loose.
Question: Does anyone know the correct socket size for the piston retaining bolt for the ram on the dipper cylinder please. My measurement across the flats of the bolt head suggests it may be a 55 mm (¾" square drive). However the marking on the bolt head ( i.e. six radial lines) suggests it is an Imperial bolt, rather than metric ( see https://www.fastenersplus.com/blogs/blog/understanding-the-different-markings-on-fasteners ). Is there any kind soul out there that could advise (preferably from prior personal knowledge), which size socket is needed for this application ?? Thanks
I just did the dipper seals on my Case 580 SE a couple weeks ago and I ended up using a 44mm socket as the correct socket, which I don’t remember the size fit too tight. I find when using an impact, the looser it fits the better the impact ability. Though I did torque it with the correct socket, when done. I just checked and 55mm is huge. Never came across a bolt that big on my Case. Good luck.
You are correct in thinking that the bolts are imperial. 55mm would indicate 2 1/4" however my memory of 580E's makes me think that it would be as HarlyHappy advises (44mm) which would be 1 7/8" . I don't recall anything that big on an E - but I could be mistaken....... Using 3/4" inch drive is an absolute waste of time - you need 1" drive & a good quality breaker bar or sliding T handle. Often, (99%) the head of the bolt needs to be heated (using oxy to a dull red) to soften the loctite.
Of all the glands I have done, getting the retaining bolt off, has never been much of an issue. While I did just knock on wood, I usually just use my HF Earthquake, with a 1/2” hose. Preferably on the machine but quite a few in my welding table vice. I will usually smack the head with a 5 lb hammer and put a good amount of oil in the impact and if that doesn’t work, I will just heat it up till I smell locktite. I have used cheaters and occasionally some mechanical over hydraulic help but that always comes with risks. There will be one, someday I am sure, that I will have to take somewhere they have a hydraulic table.
Thanks to you - and all others who replied to my Query. I actually received a 55 mms socket about 15 minutes ago, from Amazon, so I went to the digger expecting to get the bolt loosened. To my dismay, even though across the flats of the bolt measured 55mms, it could not be hammered onto the bolt head, as the size across the points of the bolt prevented the socket from starting. Perhaps had I ordered a 12 point socket instead of a 6 sided one, It may have started OK - but I got the six sided one thinking it was a better grip on the bolt, and stronger also. We live and learn n'est-ce pas!!!! So, with confirmation the the bolt is likely imperial, and the suggestion that it may be a 2¼"socket that is needed, I shal google sizes across flats and points for this, and see what should fit. Any reference to a 44 mm socket for this particular bolt is TOTALLY incorrect I'm afraid.I have a socket set that goes up to 50mms and off course even the 50 mm one was miles too small. When I do eventually get a socket to fit, (more delays!!) I will post further here in the hope the info may help someone struggling with the same problem. Once again, thanks to you all who posted in reply to my query - I am very grateful
55mm = 2.165" So 2 3/16 (2.1875) to 2 1/4 (2.250) in six point would work.
What a great bunch of guys you are on here who have replied to my query about the socket size for the Piston retaining bolt on the dipper ram of my 580 SLE I thank you one and all very much for your input !!! NOW, for the latest on the situation. . . . . . . :- The socket size is DEFINITELY imperial - which is a bit bizarre considering the digger was made in France, exported to England where I bought it (and then re-exported to France when we moved here about 20 years ago). While France has been metric since god know when, (i.e. always) I expected all the nuts and bolts would be metric - but while SOME are, others are not, and I suspect that Case France were supplied with various components such as hydraulic rams, from America. That said, it does appear the correct size for the bolt in question is, as Alrman first said should be 2 1/4" Having done many searches on the internet, this particular size is hard to find (very!) in France, and while I have just found one place that could supply, they themselves will not have it in less than 8 days!! So, I made the (rash) decision to take it to a well establish hydraulics repair shop about 60 kilometers away, it being the nearest. When asking them if they could do the job for me, the asked what machine it was from. When I said a Case, he uttered a lot of "Aie Aie Aie's", and OOO La La's. When he finally calmed down, the guy then told me that Case were the hardest they had ever done, and that it would not be easy!! That I took to mean it would not be Cheap - and I was right!!. They took the ram into the workshop, where they had a special electric heater, and they heated the bolt head to cherry red! then, using a 56 mm socket - (Fifty Six), with a pipe about 2.5 metres long on either side of the square drive bar, two hefty blokes - one pushing, the other pulling, they finally managed to loosen the bolt. I think the swearing in French may have made it a bit easier for them. So, 82 Euros later, I am now in the position of being able to fit the new gland seals, and will end this particular discussion - but not before saying thanks again for the various inputs It was, and is, much appreciated Regard to all
@Fingers Ah, yes you have a 580SLE ! - that explains the bigger bolt size. Bigger cylinders than a 580E. This thread is so mixed up 580D ..... 580E.......580SLE........
What are you going to do when you have to tighten the retaining bolt back up?
If you are an adept with an oxygen/acetylene cutting torch you could make a wrench out of a piece of 1/2 inch plate steel. Cut it slightly undersized and then finish it up with a file.
Another way if you're not very good with a torch would be to cut out a hex shape slightly bigger out of 1/2" plate but weld the same 1/2" or thicker steel flat bar that fits tight to the bolt on all six sides. The edges that fit against the bolt could be nice and flat and smooth. You could do it on both sides of the main handle too if you wanted max. strength. Make the handle so a 2" or 2 1/2" pipe fits over it at least 8". Then you can use a long snipe/length of pipe on it. You could also pound on it with a hammer.
When making big wrenches like that for custom sizes or what not, I will cut it out with my knee mill and weld 1/2” key stock along both sides for more purchase, if it will fit. Cheap and easy insurance.
Or, with a small drill bit, drill the holes at the six points and connect the dots by cutting with the torch. Mark the bolt in line with marks on the eye end to get it back to the same torque. Not my best torch work but i was in a hurry
That's a pretty flargin' fancy unit, like how the hex fits right into the recess in the end of piston. Two thumbs up.
Thanks
Don't know if I'd use key stock because I think it is harder and welding it may cause it to fail. Drilling holes in the 6 corners is a good idea but some people aren't very good with a torch. You need the right size tip and it needs to be perfectly cleaned so you get a nice straight cut. A straight edge guide will help to get a nice straight cut too. I have a curve-o-mark magnetic straight edge. It's a kind of aluminum and the cutting tip slides along it easier than a steel straight edge.
I have never seen a homemade wrench made in that manner. Awesome and I learn something new here everyday. Thank you, I believe I will copy that design.
I had one of those cutting guides once but it disappeared, likely stuck on something and overlooked
Or somebody took it.
My 580 d has had no set screw so far on the four done. Peening often is better than hard based on pump sleeve removals, also helps the penetrating oil work. The inner piston is held in by a bolt. I have found the shallow counterbore and the deeper counter bore of the piston facing the bolt. Which was the original way? Deeper cut end makes sense to me. Can't tell from manuals.
"Peening often is better than hard based on pump sleeve removals, also helps the penetrating oil work." Please explain what that means. In regards to your piston question --------⬇ Which way was it on before you removed it from the rod ? Take the other cylinder apart and pay attention to the orientation it has. It is best to reseal both swing cylinders at the same time. NO oil on the threads and apply blue LockTite on them.
There is a blue LokTite that is oil insensitive. You don't want any oil but if there could be traces there is a special LokTite that isn't affected by oil. I used it on my bottom roller bolts after cleaning up the threads with a tap and cutting oil.
Peening- From removing sleeves on pump shafts. Hard hits just do not seem to work as well as more lighter hits to make the metal expand. Difference between hitting it with a hammer and peening. Hard to explain, easy to see. I know how the last guy put them on, I just do not know how they should be, probably works either way. Back in, torqued till the 3/4 breaker bar bounced while standing on it a pipe . Thread locker next time, cause there will be more.
Thanks for the explanation ! A simple comma or a dash (-) makes a big difference in a understanding the meaning of a sentence.