I picked up my "new" Case 580k (Phase 1) today! It's about a 1987 vintage, going off the date stamp on the radiator. The ID plate in the ROPS is corroded and illegible. I've created this thread to chart progress in the rebuild and will post photos when I can. I actually had one of those "oh sh*t, what have I done" moments, when I did a thorough inspection at home. I've found alot of little (well, maybe not so little) bits and pieces that need doing, apart from the BIG jobs, I was aware of when I purchased the unit. First up, was to remove the radiator, to take in for a flush and pressure check. When I test-drove the machine, I noticed that the bottom radaitor hose was sucking in. It doesn't look like there is a thermostat in the engine, so I'm assuming that the radiator is blocked. The radiator was full of very sludgy looking water and had a slight diesel odour(hmmm, smells expensive) Any tips??
Compression test for blown head gasket. If it is like my 580K most stuff is annoying but just takes a lot of labor to fix. The plastic parts are crazy expensive but it sure is nice to have windows that stay closed in the winter. Lot of little electrical bugs but most can be tracked down. Recommend you pull the floor pans and clean everything from the top down. It makes working on it a lot easier.
Cheers Bill, I have spoken to a tech at Cummins who will lend me a compression test kit. He also mentioned that the injectors have a copper ring on the bottom, that may be shot. I have a 3000psi water blaster lined up for the weekend and will pull the floor pans as suggested. Everything is covered with muck, as the machine is originally from a cattle feedlot. The wiring on the machine has been completely bypassed (previous owner started it with a screwdriver...LOL) Instrumentation is smashed/faulty, I read another thread where a bloke changed out the standard electronic gauge panel and replaced it with aftermarket gauges. I think I'll do the same.
Cattle feed lot!! Oh my! yes you definitely will want to clean it up real well with a pressure washer. Overall they are a good tough machine. Mine is 4x4 with x-hoe and it has served me well. good luck with it.
A bit more progress today after work. Removed fuel pump, which had a broken actuator arm. The bloke from Cummins reckons he has a good secondhand one I can have. I will also get a new sump gasket as I will remove the sump to retrieve the broken lift pump part. The fuel in the oil could be a symptom of a couple of things -injector copper seating rings are stuffed -dirty bucket used for filling the radiator ...LOL -corrosion in the engine block from using bore water to fill the radiator (we're hoping that's not it) I will have the radiator back later this week and will use a block/radiator flush product to remove the diesel and any calcium build-up in the system. The radiator bloke also suggested installing a sock to catch any crap floating around in there! Sorted out all the filter numbers and purchased same from our local supplier. FYI- filters approx $180 AU Engine oil filter Baldwin BT595 Inline fuel filter Baldwin BF1173 Primary fuel Baldwin BF1280 Fuel filter Baldwin BF 788 Inner air Baldwin PA2360-FN Outer air Baldwin PA 2487 Hydraulic oil Baldwin BT8850-MPG RH front kingpin has no, that's right,NO bearings in it and has been used like that for a while. My new kingpin kit is on the way. Hopefully the axle will not be too worn in the bearing seating area, still gotta pull that apart yet. I have some Eutectic 244 Cast iron electrodes and an adjustable reamer handy, just in case. Progress pics to come soon....... Bill, the proximity sensor and anti-rollback rod is missing on my machine. Is the return to dig function necessary? I am trying to track down a secondhand anti-rollback rod...no luck so far. If I can't get one I will fabricate it.
The return to dig is a luxury item.mine does not work but I just use the tab on it as a visual and it works for me. All my older equipment never had one so I am used to it. I have run track loaders with it and it was nice to have. The front end would be my biggest worry. How is your front axle pivot? A lot of guys skip greasing them and They wear and get sloppy.
Given that you are going through what I did with my 580k I will provide you a link that was given to me rescently and has good prices on some parts... www.brokentractor.com I know when I went through and did all the filters on my beast, i spent over $300 I think for just the filters... I know that trip was like $700+ total but there was alot of oil, and other small parts that they put the screws to you on. The return to dig isnt needed, but I like it, it makes it so you can just smack the controll lever to the left and it will go back to ready to scoop, i use it mostly when doing snow with mine. I look forward to your progress, as I have spent countless hrs working on my 580k. Good luck, and lots of good people here to answer your questions!
Hey Ando, I noticed you said the ID tag was trashed, did you ever find your machine serial number? Case stamped the S/N on the frame of the machine as well.
Atco, your not the first person who has said that... WHERE? My tag is trashed too, and I have been looking all over for the one on the frame to no avail!
It's been a while since I worked on one, Alrman might know for sure. I'm thinking it was on the ouside of the machine frame, on the left side, underneath cab. Sort of where you step up in the cab from the left side. Can't remember for sure. I think the US versions started with something like JJG------. Hope that helps a little.
i'm pretty sure the jjg vs just numbers is the diff between series 1 vs series 3 but i looked where you described, i had a tag there and thats the one that got ruined by the guy who blasted my machine when i had it painted...
Now that you mention it, I believe your right, that's where the ID tag is. But, I'm darn certain that s/n is stamped in the frame, just don't remember where. Call your Case dealer, they should be able to tell you where it is. Just a wild thought in my head, can't say it's correct, try raising the hood and look on the top of the frame rail right around the area of hood pivot.
I'll check out the front axle pivot point and look for an ID plate once I blast some of the cow****, rust and grease off, on the weekend. I'm shopping around for seal kits for the loader at the moment, theres a difference of up to 20% between suppliers. The local Case bloke is giving me a price too, although he asked for the # off teh gland nut to ID the loader cylinders. Loader lift cylinders #G108486 806 (1.5" rod) Loader bucket cylinders #G108478 807 (1.75" rod)
Ando, check out brokentractor.com... heres a direct link http://www.brokentractor.com/case_loader_cyl.htm $25 or $30 US to get a cyl seal rebuild kit. FWIW I dont work for brokentractor.com... Its just a less expensive alternative to others I have found.
Yes, the ID is stamped in the frame on the left side. Look on top of the frame just below the cab and above the step. You may need a mirror to read it.
A few pics. 1. ain't she a peach!! LOL 2. radiator removed and set off for check and flush 3. 580k arriving home Just ordered my kingpin and seal kits for the loader. Picking up a replacement fuel lift pump and new oil pan gasket this arvo. The kingpin in the RHS at the moment has no bearing cups so hopefully the new ones will go in alright. If not, I have some Eutectic 224 electrodes and a tapered reamer to refurb the axle.
Umm... your K is looking different than I would expect... Or the K's in Oz are diff than the K's in the US... The boom/dipper on yours looks like its from an E and whats with the clevis points on the top of the loader towers? hmmm maybe you have the frame option that has the bolt on BH... I've never actually seen one of those... Either way, She is a beauty! Did you get the hood by chance?
Yeah mate, I've ID'd the hoe as the same as is usually on the super E. Unfortunately I didn't get a bonnet or grille.
Sounds like you don't have a hood. They are hard to find used and made up of several pieces, all expensive. Maybe a custom hood is the way to go. I think I can see several snakes in the long grass and crocs in the bush waiting for a bite . Phil
Yeah Phil, I'm trying hard not to get bitten!! As suggested, a custom hood assy. is on the cards. A bit of 1/16" plate should do the job.
I could see that being very cool! I cant wait to see what you fab up, if you need pic's or measurements off a stock hood, lemmy know.
Thanks Bartlanz, I will definately be chasing that info before too long.....hopefully.
Right now while you have the radiator out is a good time to go over the cooler. Clean and degrease and straighten any bent fins. They make fin brushes for air conditioners that work pretty well for this. This will help your reman radiator work to it's full potential. I hope you are good with tin if you want to fab a hood yourself! Try to find someone who will let you borrow one to copy from.
Good idea Bill, my wife is keen to help...I'm sure she would love to straighten those fins...LOL I will also give the engine block a good flush/treatment to remove any diesel residue/calcium etc. The hood shouldn't be a problem, I've worked in fabrication for over 20years and have a few mates with hydraulic brake presses. Pic of hyd oil cooler
oooo... now thats scarry!
Hi Ando, A Radiator Fin Straightener would make your wifey's job easier. Toledo Tools or KC PRO AM make one for about AU$15-$20. Good luck with your restoration. Chris Brisbane Ausralia
Damn! your wife will need a lot of shopping to make up for straightening out that mess! Best have the charge card ready and remember the holidays are coming. LOL If you don't get the air flowing it will never have good cooling.
I know I'm off topic a little, but when you say " If you don't get the air flowing it will never have good cooling " are you talking about the Case or the Wife? If you can get her out there working on it with you, you are a better man than I. So.. just remember that the next time she gets you miffed
LOL, all I know is the women in my life look at my backhoe with distain, and she is clean and sharp looking...
Hey all, the fin straightener is on the way, so my girl got a reprieve on the weekend. We live on acreage, with a 200m causeway across a creek/floodway. When we have a big enough rain (happens about every 2yrs) the causeway goes under and requires repairs, meaning, until the repairs are done, we have to walk the 200m in and out of the block. It can be tough going, the causeway has a rock base and when you have 6 bags of groceries in your hands, it's pretty precarious going!!! I have had an old Inter B275 for a few years but the old girl is a bit small for the job and gets bogged, really, really easily. We now have a 2 month old son, so my wife is pretty keen to see the 580 up and going, ready for this years wet.
:beatsme The backhoe, or your wife???? (apologies to your wife for asking....)
I took home a 3000psi water blaster and heater unit on Friday. About 3hrs blasting on Friday night, 4-5hrs overall on Saturday and another 3hrs or so on Sunday. Man I must have blown a cubic metre off the machine. Just when I thought I had got all the crap off, I found more. I lifted the machine off the deck with the bucket/stabilizers for cleaning......lost heaps of oil with the badly leaking cylinders....about 10 Litres every time you start it......... A couple of cracks have become apparent- LH loader arm-small crack. RH loader pivot/fuel tank has been welded (probably with no prep) and has undercut and a 3-4"crack. Dipper has a crack about 3" long. I'll post a prep and repair proceedure for these when I get to em...
I only had one stabilizer cylinder kit for the weekend, so that was the only ram repaired so far. The bottom pin is siezed solid, so I rebuilt the cylinder with the rod still on the machine. I tried heat on the stabilizer bosses but no luck. I can drop a thermic lance through the pins (other side is stuck too) at a later date. We have a total fire ban in my area at the moment, so I wasn't about to do any lancing in these conditions. Pics of: 1. hoses disconnected ready to go 2. disassembled rod 3. my breaker bar....LOL 4. the old gland parts, or what was left of them.....??? at the o-ring 5. the new gland parts 6. reassembled and ready to rock (night shot for mood)
The finished product.....
Oh...and heres one of the hoe up for cleaning......what a mission that was! Just when I had packed the water blaster away on Sunday, I decided to remove the side console cover. There was a rats nest and dirt up to the hand throttle! All cleaned out now but I've got an idea that the wiring will be, well..challenging!
One thing I found after I'd cleaned the backhoe, was a fairly new looking galvanised plug in the bottom of the torque converter bell housing. I'm praying that oil doesn't pour out when I remove it. The remainder of my cylinder seal kits arrived by airbag today (3 days late) so I'll do the second stabilizer tonight if I get time after work.
OK, in the couple of hours of daylight left after work, I changed the second stabilizer cylinder seal kit. All good. Then.....I pulled that galvanised plug on the torque converter housing...and out came about 2 litres of milky coloured fluid. I'm wondering, since the fluid is milky, could this be oil from the shuttle leaking past a seal??? If the fluid was black, I could see that being the rear engine seal. Anyone had experience with the same symptoms???????:beatsme
hmmm... Never had that on mine, but i was always told milky oil = water...
Yeah, there is definately water in there, possibly from the hours of water blasting I did on the weekend. I'm just wondering whether it could be the shuttle front seal, or is there another seal on the TQ converter that can leak?
Ando, I replied to your message to me. But as for the fluid you found in the bell housing. Yes it is from the shuttle front seal. The last owner put the plug there to stop it from leaking on the grond. Out of sight out of mind.
I still cant speak to the seals, You mite want to check the www.casece.com and look at the parts pics to see whats near it, i'll take a look later to see if I can figure it out. As for weather it is from the cleaning, that I would doubt, I know when I bought my 580k alot of the oils where milky, keep in mind the machine is probably 20+ years old, and after the first 5 to 10 years, it leads a beat life, I know the guy who owned mine before me was an idiot, it took over 6 tubes of grease to just get it to spit a little out of the joints... I would asume the milky fluid is simply old... also usualy if you mix one oil with another, it doesnt get milky, it gets a different viscosity (thinkness) but not a change in color.
#2 is the pump seal
Ghaa Rhinos you beat me too it, I was trying to find that.
Cheers, Rhino and Bartlanz, thanks for the info. I see on the Casece parts list that there is two part #'s for the position 2 seal. 2. N8071 seal, R29995 pump or 2. L30489 seal,L30488 pump Is there a way to identify the pump, or do I just have to check it when I remove the shuttle? and...do I have to strip the shuttle to replace the seal, or can I just use a tubular drift to fit the new one over the input shaft? I see there is an ID plate on the shuttle, although I may need a mirror to read it. Could the ID plate help me determine which seal to order?
If I had to guess that plate probaby would shed some light, It is probably the Serial number plate for the unit(shuttle). That being said, I would think you would need to tell the SN to a dealer to get the info out of their system... Also it may not say if that was rebuilt or not. The different pump numbers specify a new/rebuilt vs an old pump setup. They dont seem to tell you any way to diferentiate between the two units.:beatsme maybe rhino can shed some light:notworthy
Parts stack up " B" is a common automotive automatic trans design. In addition to # 2 seal , # 4 is a bushing between the converter hub and pump housing ( # 3 ) , # 6 bushing is between the inner pump gear and the stator support ( # 8 ), # 9 bushing is between the input shaft and the stator support ( # 8 ) . There is a strong chance a special tool is needed to realign # 3 and # 8, it pretty much consists of a pipe bored to fit over the stator support ( # 8 ) and inside bushing # 4, after things are lined up and bolts tightened, the pipe is removed. The alignment tool can be whittled out on a lathe with little problem. For a auto trans the common order of wear, will be # 4 , # 6 then # 9. If you do fix the leak, I'd be tempted to go through the entire unit being splitting / pulling the engine is probably 75% of the work involved.
I just spoke to the local Case parts bloke. He said that both models of pump take the same seal #N8071 (other no. is superseceded) The plate on the shuttle reads: No. D140175 BWA ID No. 10-16-047 Now that the machine is clean, I have found some more plates: ROPS canopy Power Shuttle Transaxle Backhoe Ft axle Loader contol valve Cannot find-engine no. chassis no. (have checked LH chassis member) I will try to get the two loader lift cylinders done today after work. Next will be the bucket cylinders, then the backhoe extension cylinder. Then....the power shuttle....
Interestingly.....Case has been about 10% cheaper than the aftermarket suppliers, on everything except the kingpin parts. Unfortunately the Case bloke took a few days to get back to me with pricing on the seal kits and I ASSumed that they would be twice the price of aftermarket anyway. So I've blown a few bucks (about $60) overall on seal kits. Eg: bucket cyl kit -Case kit: $54.92 -aftermarket kit: $67.50 -seal supplier items: $90-100 (estimate)
Thanks IH, point taken. I do notice however that item #6-bushing, charge pump gear drive #9-bushing, torque converter support are not sold seperately and do not appear in the CNH repair kits. I know of a local supplier that does recon charge pumps....are the bushes a special item, or can I machine up a couple myself?
In the automotive world, bushing 2 and 6 would be either babbit or brass/bronze where 9 would brass / bronze. I don't know what your machine would have. For other projects I've cut down the width auto trans bushings, you pretty much need a friendly trans shop to let you dig through their bushing selection. Measure the bushings and see if they are metric or inch, that would help narrow what trans to look at. Bushing 2 needs a tightish fit to prevent external seal leaks and fluid in the converter, a loose bushing in a auto trans will allow the seal to blow out ( as in escape from the bore). Some car trans even have a retainer ring to prevent such a problem. Bushing 6 needs to be good fitting too, the pump gear tips will wear if the bushing is loose. Bushing 9 can be a bit loose. Too bad the bushings that wear quickly need the tightest clearance. Can you measure pump pressure? This would tell you if the pump gears are worn leaning things to a reman pump.
IH, I'll hopefully have the radiator etc back in, next week and will be able to do a pressure test on the shuttle then.
A productive weekend: -loader lift seals done -loader bucket seals done -brake master cylinders and actuator cylinders stripped (more on that later) -oil cooler straightened and cleaned (I did it, my 3mth old son made sure the wife was kept busy on the weekend)
The cooler looks good. Should be able to pass some air to the radiator now!
I was thinking the same thing, That must have been a labor of love!
Oh yeah, I made up a special tool (old toothbrush with hacksawed slots) to do the job. On Saturday, midday, it was about 42C (108F) in the shade, so I sat down with a couple of beers...... I pulled down the right side brake mechanism as well. The previous owner has put brake fluid in the master cylinder, so of course all the seals are stuffed and the slave cylinders had corroded. The pistons had to be knocked out with a drift. New pistons from Case are $400 each I have tracked down a company who does exchange cylinders for $200 each. The brake disks are pretty thin, about 4mm. Does anyone know the min thickness for the disks? The other thing was, the brake housing has some evil looking sludge in it. I have a new drum of Case Wet Brake Oil but I was wondering if I could flush the transaxle before putting the new oil in, any tips?
580k Brakes I managed to get into the brakes on the weekend, thinking I had all the parts to do so. Master cylinders: Once stripped out of the machine these were honed and kitted out. The reservoir had a hole eaten in it by mice, so I repaired it with some "plastic in a tube" which worked quite well.... The slave cylinders were already off, so I filled the reservoir with Bartran 68 and pumped through a couple of tanks to flush the brake lines. Slave cylinders: The previous owner of my 580k had used brake fluid in the system (the cap on the reservoir says to use Dot 4???) The slave cylinder seals had failed and the brake fluid had seeped out, into the brake housing. The cylinders were pretty rusted inside and the pistons badly corroded/siezed, not to mention the corrosion on the brake actuator (in the housing) I managed to track down a supplier that does exchange cylinders, which arrived in great condition (resleeved) but with no seals in one. I'm just waiting for the missing seals to arrive in the mail now. Brake actuator and disks: I ordered two new friction disks, which are 4.7mm wide, new. Most of the existing disks are around 4mm, with two under 3.6mm (these were replaced) I cleaned the muck out of the brake housings and replaced the plates and actuator on the right side-no worries. Then I went to reassemble the left side actuator and...broke one of the bloody springs. I'm waiting on 3 new ones to arrive tomorrow, hopefully. All good with the brakes so far, hopefully the actuators will adjust up OK when it all goes back together.....
580k fuel system/sender I also attacked the fuel system over the weekend. The stop **** on the tank has had the needle/handle replaced with a 7/16" bolt and heaps of threadtape and leaks about a litre a day. I pulled the bunk out.........and nothing came out, until I poked about with my finger, out came about 2 handfulls of rust and crap! I've now got a new stop valve and fittings for the fuel line and decided to test the sender unit. The resistance wire on the sender was broken but I did get some readings and reckon the resistance range is 0-90ohms (for anyone trying to match an aftermarket gauge with an original sender) I attempted to repair the sender but the resistance is all wrong. I will get a VDO lever type sender unit and modify to suit. The alternator was also shot so I have a new unit ready to put on asap...
This lance of which you speak, is that another name for a cutting torch or is it something I need to buy?
Ok, so this has been bugging me for a while... did you get this machine on thw super cheap... Or at least on a good deal? It seems like you are dumping significant time and funds into this machine, which is admerable. I went through a similar thing with mine, but not to the extreme that you have been.
Rob, I will just borrow one from a friend who has an engineering workshop. You may be able to hire one, possibly from a hire company or workshop. Basically the lance consists of a handle and a consumable rod full of thermite that fits into it. Oxygen is fed through the handle/lance and once lit, will cut anything in front of it (even rock) I've used them before to remove pins up to 10"diameter from machinery. Pretty dangerous to use but very effective.
OK, I'll put you out of your misery...LOL I purchased the machine for $5000 (something like $4500 US) I have been looking for a backhoe for about 2-3years but anything decent is in the $15000-$25000 range and even then, that's with some leaking rams and a fair bit of wear (no extendahoe either) I'm in Northern Australia and did find a couple of fair hoes in South Australia for the $10-15000 mark but would be looking at $8-$9000 to transport up here. I figure that I can get this up and working (on my property) for about $10000 all up. (not including my labor cost)
Ok, well that makes me feel much better about your project. 4500 is a very good price for the machine you got! And given that you went into it expecting to do the work, I'de say your going down the rite path, and should have a nice machine when your done! I know I bought mine for $12500 US, and maybe $200 to get it home. but my machine is a full cab and had/has all its glass. But at that it still has been a money pit.
You can buy them from a Cat dealer. Slow as things are they might even rent you one.
DOT 4 is American brake fluid ( Department of Transportation ) The type of fluid depends on the type of seals used. Rubber that resists brake fluid won't live with oil and other way round too. If you do use brake fluid, consider DOT 5 silicone, it does not absorb moisture like dot 4 or lower. The downside is DOT 5 is easily aeraited causing a soft peddle, though on what you are using it for it probably isn't a issue.
IH, I've actually gone with Bartran 68 hydraulic oil. I have a Case fluid comparision chart which shows the Bartran as an alternative to the TCH. Some pics for ya's: rebuilt master cylinders and brake pack, master cylinder kit.
Just to clairify. DOT 4 brake fluid and hydraulic oil aren't interchangable. Put DOT4 in a hyd system and the rubber parts will swell. Put hyd oil in a DOT 4 system and the same will occur. It is critical to find out what the rubber seals and hoses need, the metal parts don't care. ( though moving to DOT 5 if DOT 4 is required will reduce metal corrosion because it does not absorb moisture that ends up causing corrosion. If using hydraulic oil corrosion from moisture is less of a issue)
Ando, DO NOT USE ANY BRAKE FLUID - DOT 3 OR 4 !!!! Those 580K's here in Australia had a small green tag that would clip in under the electrical terminals on the reservoir cap - said to use mineral oil only Most of them have disapeared from all those older machines. Use whatever your using in your hydraulic oil. Bartran 68 is OK. Those lids have caused ALOT of problems over the years - don't know how Case ever got away with such a stupid mistake
Yeah, I've got Bartran 68 in the brake system, now. The bloke that owned the machine before me had put brake fluid in the system, ruining all the seals, corroding the slave cylinder pistons as well as the brake actuator on the transaxle. All good now though.
OK, good progress this weekend: -new alternator and fan belt fitted. The engine pulley was quite rusted but will work OK now that it's been wirebrushed. -refitted radiator and added a sock and radiator flush to clean the block out. -cleaned diesel tank, I removed about a handfull of rust Fitted new fuel stop ****, new fuel lift pump and fittings. -serviced engine, new filters (oil, fuel, air) -refitted brake slave cylinders and RH brake pack. -serviced power shuttle, cleaned screen. I started the machine to check the front seal on the charge pump. There is a steady stream of oil leaking from the inspection hole in the bell housing, so I definately will be removing the shuttle soon (DOH!!!) -removed the LH front wheel and spindle to fit a kingpin kit. The axle is worn on the needle bearing mountings and will have to be welded up and remachined. pics!!
Radiator fan cowl on order....in case anyone's wondering...
Really enjoying the thread Ando, keep those pictures coming. Phil
Hey Phil, I was wondering where you had got to.... Heres a couple more pics of the front axle, to be repaired. I was considering repairing and line boring the axle in situ but now, I think it will be easier to remove the whole thing, weld the worn areas and put the axle up on a milling machine to rebore the kingpin holes. I haven't done any testing on the material yet to determine what to use for the weld repair but usually it would be a 99%Ni electrode and a cold weld proceedure, so I don't have to preheat the whole axle. I have also used silicon bronze wire (MIG brazing) on this type of repair before but I don't have a roll of wire.
I got home from work yesterday with enough daylight to remove the front axle for repair (so I thought) After wrestling with the rusted circlips on the axle pivot for half an hour, I snipped em off with the oxy and knocked out the pin (NB: pin has to be knocked out towards the front of the machine, there is not enough room at the sump to remove it the other way) With the pin removed, the axle dropped down......and fouled on the wooden blocks I have under the counterweight, for safety. Next step is to plug the power steering hoses, start the machine, lift the front end with the bucket and slide the axle out for repair....tonight.
wow i thought the E at work had a lot of play when the bearing went. That must have been crazy loose
My hat is off to you for bringing that old thing back from the brink of neglect. I am looking at a way worse old 1981 1400 3C JCB which the guy wants a bid price from me on. When I look for information about JCB on this Forum it tells me it's not a word or it's too short or something. Can anybody help me figure out a way to search for 3 letter anagrams on this forum? Are you going to paint it up all new colors or is it so dry down there in OZ that nothing rusts? Question on hydraulic cylinder rebuilds. A guy quoted me about $375 for a new piston rod on a 42 inch x 2 inch dia. bucket cylinder piston rod. Somehow these guys bent a 2 inch piston rod. I assume the rest of the machine has been taken care of in a similar fine fashion. Is that a reasonable price to fabricate a new piston rod? John
G'day OHH, I'm not sure about searching for JCB gear on this site, one of the more experienced members should be able to help. Once I get the 580k up and running again, I will use it for a couple of months to iron out the bugs then look at a respray. I'm about a km off the beach, so anything in the open here, rusts. Plus, after all the hard work, a respray just tops off a rebuild nicely. Did your rod price include using your old eye? You could save a couple of bucks there. $375 AU probably sounds about right for that size rod.
another 580K question Interesting viewing all your posts. New to this forum, also new to a 1987 580K four wheel drive myself. My new to me backhoe replaces a 1962 530CK. I am just getting to know this machine, could anyone tell me how to check the fluid in the transfer case?, or does it share the same fluid as the tranny/transaxle. The info decal under the hood seems to say they are different. I found the dipstick for the tranny thru the floor in the cab, but can't find a fill or check hole in or around the transfer case. Thanks alot-Chris H
Look for 2 round plugs in the floor pans. one is between your feet when in the hoe position. You pop them out and there is a dipstick under them. Suggest you take up floor plates and give it a good cleaning down from the top as they are usually covered in dirt on top of the trans and axle. It is a pain but it makes working on them a lot easier and you wont get dirt down in the hole when you pull the dipstick.
thank you Bill, I will check that out tomorrow
Update!! Happy New Year to all!!!!!! Front axle has been removed, repaired and replaced, with new kingpin kits fitted. As well as the weld repair to the axle yoke, I also had to build-up the top of the wheel spindle (where the thrust bearing sits) The material welded quite well, as per proceedure: 1. grind away all spalled metal 2. dress areas to be welded with carbide burr (die grinder) 3. preheat just enough to take the chill out of the metal (I just left it in the sun for an hour or so before welding 35 degrees C) 4. electrodes used were Eutectic 244 (99% nickel) weld in 1" stringer beads, peening with a blunt, clean, chipping hammer, working opposite sides of the yoke to keep heat down. When you can hold your thumb on the weld area for a few seconds, it's ready to add another bead. 5. build-up complete, I simply used a grinder and burr grinder to remove any high spots and we are ready to machine the bores! PICS
Now that the front axle is refurbed and refitted, the next area of attack is the backhoe. The top and bottom swing tower bushes/pins have copped a flogging!!! The old Inter B275 is my crane, to drop the boom out of the swing tower. As per the pics, the bottom pin has long ago lost its bushing and the nut off the pin was also missing, causing some damage..... The top bushing in the backhoe frame has been repaired before (see the "repair bush" in the pic) but the welding wasn't prepped correctly and the repair bush had broken the welds and was spinning. I'll put a decent prep on the repair bush and backhoe frame, which should solve that problem. The bottom bushing area will be built-up and linebored.
One thing that isn't completely *****d is the seat base:drinkup Just a quick clean-up and respray for that!
The swing control pedals were siezed, so they got a birthday too...
My old International B275 beside the Case 580k......the old and the, well...not so old. Bit of a difference in bucket size...LOL
Are you fitting an older boom to your K
The hoe on my machine, is the same as was fitted to the 580SE. :beatsme I've ID'd it from the hydraulic cylinder gland numbers.
I went to a local auction recently to check out a Case 580SE, ex army model they had in the catalogue. The machine had an army "unserviceable" sticker on it and it looked like the machine had been sitting for many years. All four tyres were flat and perished. The machine had 4 new tyres beside it, to go with the machine. Standard bucket on the front and non-extendable hoe on the back (a very small hoe at that) The hoe is smaller/different to the one on my 580k, which matches the CASECE site listing for a SE hoe. My friend was attending on auction day, so I suggested he bid 3 or 4 thousand for me. The machine sold for $16,500 AU plus the 7% auctioneers fee + gst=$19,420 in total. Made me feel real good about my 5 grand basket case
wow 20 grand for a machine in unknown condidtion. send those guys my way ive got some things i need to get rid of!
Yeah mate, auctions get a bit crazy. There were also shipping containers selling on the day, $4280-$4500, for 40 footers. The container yard, across the road from where I work, sells them repaired/repainted for $4200
Now for the hoe Having finished the front axle, I have started work on the backhoe. The boom was dropped out of the swingtower using my B275 for a crane again. Top swingtower pin is fair, although the frame has been repaired with a bush, sometime in the past. There wasn't much prep done when the bush was welded in, so it has broken loose and been spinning. (pic)
This is the top frame repair bush that has come adrift
The bottom swingtower pin had flogged out the bush in the frame, the tapered pin had lost its retaining nut and flogged out the taper in the swingtower. So, the plan is: -weld original repair bush back into top frame -machine bush and weld into bottom frame -machnin tapered bush and weld into bottom of swingtower.
On the left is the repair bush for the bottom of the swingtower, with the tapered pin. On the right is repair bush for the bottom of the backhoe frame. Hopefully, I'll get them welded in, this weekend. Making progress.........
Here is the bottom of the swing tower, the tapered hole for the pivot pin is a bit worn eh! Check out what used to be the thread on the pin...
Here's a pic of the repaired, backhoe top frame. I've welded the repair bush, back into position. (as seen back in post #91) I prepped the top of the bush with a 10mm x 60 degree chamfer on both the bush and frame. A 2.25" 4140 shaft was used to align the top and bottom bushes for tacking and then removed to fully weld the top bush. I'm aiming to get the bottom repair bush welded in, sometime this week. My proceedure... -prep bush and frame. -using the 2.25"shaft to align the bush, it was tack welded into position -Preheat weld area to approx 100 degrees C -root runs, top and bottom with 2.5mm, Eutectic 6666 electrodes. -9 cap runs in top prep, 4runs on bottom, flanged area. -cooled, ground and painted to keep the rust off.
Probably the most common causes for weld failure, I have seen over the years is from incorrect preparation of the weld site and incorrect electrodes. Most weld repairs on my machine have failed. Upon inspection of the failure, I find that the previous owner has just welded straight over the cracks, without even removing the paint. It certainly pays to do it right the first time! Below, is some info on the Eutectic electrodes I'm using for my steel (not cast) repairs on the 580k. Most reputable brand electrodes with the same specs should do the job. EutecTrode 6666 Applications Double-coated manual electrode for joining structural steels. Applications include machine frames, supports, high-pressure pipes, flanges, angle steel, irons and joints subjected to heavy stresses. Technical data Tensile strength Rm: 550-650 N/mm 2 Yield strength Rp 0.2: ~ 450 N/mm 2 Elongation A5: FACE="Symbol" SIZE="2">³ 25% Impact value Av (ISO V): ~140 J (20°C) Features and benefits • Low heat input • High impact value at sub-zero temperatures • Excellent weldability with either AC or DC • Ease of use in all positions • Reinforced bead profile for improved joint safety
Looking good Ando. This thread is going to be an excellent reference for years to come as the numerous K's become affordable to everyone. This would make a good sticky. Phil
Thanks Phil, hopefully the thread will give other 'restorers' the head start I wish I had After many phone calls to suppliers and wreckers, I managed to pick up a 580k hood for 450 bucks It will require some panel beating and bog but I think I can make look decent enough. Unfortunately, the hinges didn't arrive on the pallet with the hood. I'm chasing the wrecker for them today, hopefully they didn't get lost in transit (transport companies are liable for ANYTHING around here)
Ando, The individual parts new add up to some unbelievable amount. I paid the same for mine, but the other hood I located, hundreds of miles away, was over $1000. The left and right hinges I recall are made of 1/2" flat bar, maybe 1 1/2" or 2" wide, with a pin in the end. I just threw one out, maybe I can find it. Seems to me the hood will not go all the way down, no matter how one adjusts the hinges, if the front rad support is not adjusted right. Phil
That will come back to haunt you, one day. I know whenever I throw stuff out, I'll need it a week, a month or a year later:beatsme If you do happen to find it, could you post a pic (beside a ruler, so I can scale it) I still haven't heard back from the wrecking yard on the whereabouts of the original hinges.
Ando, this is quite impressive to say the least! tne repair bushings in #93- were those pruchased or machined by yourself? thanks, Bill
Bill, these parts were machined by a friend of mine who has a machine shop. I supplied the drawings for him.
Never has a truer word been said.Love the thread Ando keep up the great work.
Short update: the weather here is terrible at the moment, with a couple of low pressure systems (cyclones) drenching the state. I can't fit the backhoe in the shed so I'll have to wait for some dry days to continue with repairs... I'm doing some panelbeating on the hood in the meantime....
Hey Ando, while driving to work this morning I saw a 580K with the same boom as yours. Just thought Id tell ya.
Ando, I've enjoyed this thread...any updates?
what was the scoop with your radiator sludge? i too have sludge in my radiator. i have replaced my head gasket twice now. still no fix. yesterday i pulled the hose from the hydraulic pump that feeds to the bottom of the radiator and started it. it blew out all kinds of sludge. im not sure why a hydraulic hose goes into the bottom of the radiator other than the transmission cooler and radiator are together. maybe a cracked radiator and its mixing water with hydraulic fluid?????
The engine cooling circuit is seperate from the hydraulic oil/powershuttle cooling circuit, so there cannot be a mixing of hyd oil with your coolant. The oil cooler in front of your radiator takes care of the hyd/powershuttle cooling. (unless yours is different?) I'm :beatsmeat a loss to explain the sludge that I had in the radiator. My 580 is still sitting idle (for now) but is started occassionally to keep the battery charged etc. I've only had traces of sludge since I flushed everything.
if the coolant circuit is separate from the hydraulic cooling why and what does the hydraulic hose do that goes from the filter (front of the radiator/trans filter) to the bottom of the radiator??? are you sure the trans cooler is not maybe the bottom part of the radiator and the engine coolant the top part????
Is it a 580k you've got? I can't be sure of other models, besides 580's, myself.
its a 1973 580b ck. the trans filter is at front left of radiator. one of the hoses from filter housing goes into the bottom right of the radiator
the filter in front of radiator is for shuttle not for hydraulic system and goes in to the radiator for cooling heating oil.
I gotta say, this has been terrific, Ando. Thanks for taking the time to document all your renovations!!!!!!!!! How's she doing these days???
*update*update*update* I attacked the drivetrain on the weekend and removed the power shuttle. From reading of similar power shuttle problems on the site, I assumed that the belleville spring on the forward clutch pack may have broken. Having disassembled the shuttle, I find that the spring is fine. Acutally, all components look pretty good in there. The charge pump looks fine. I ran out of time on the weekend and will conduct a more thorough inspection of the shuttle throughout the week. If anyone has any suggestions as to what to look for (common problems) it would be appreciated. A description of the original problem. -oil leaking from bell housing (possible front seal? It looks ok, though) -when topped up, the shuttle gave strong reverse motion but very weak forward (have to rev high to move it)
Some power shuttle pics Not at all scary to remove and disassemble!
one more
I ordered the gasket and seal kit #D103220 today and will detail the rebuild for anyone "lucky" enough to do the same. Any tips appreciated
recently purchased a 3500a IH 1979 model with trans problems. replaced forward high pressure tube and seals. trans is pulling in both directions now,but all hydrolics have quit operating. could this be the mcv or mcv pump? could anyone help figure this out. thank you Tim
Can't help you with the IH, Tim. I'm not familiar with them. OK, my shuttle gasket kit arrived, although after cleaning and wrapping the components for reassembly, I was a bit sus on the charge pump and forward clutch, fiber plates. I would hate to reassemble the shuttle, install it and find that I have the same problem.:Banghead The charge pump was leaking from the front seal, even though it was new. I figure the pump bushes are worn enough that there is too much pressure on teh seal from the bypassing oil. The fibre FWD plates look OK but I'm not taking any chances, so a new set is ready to go in as well. I'm hoping to find time this weekend to reassemble. Pics to follow
Ando, I notice the oil in the shuttle was probably ATF - good idea to use a straight 10 grade or even a 68 grade hydraulic oil - shuttles seem to last longer in between rebuilds using yellow oils. Good idea to give the oil cooler a flush - use some diesel or kero & pump it through the lines ; followed by some air pressure ; & then prime with fresh oil. Pump it into a clean container during the flush & see what comes out. If it hasn't had a major failure it's not critical to do - but I'm just in the habit of doing it.
Thanks mate, I was using ATF in the shuttle, to get it on the truck when I picked it up and to move it at home. I will give the system a flush, to remove any ATF. There would be some metal filings floating around in there somewhere, I would imagine. I was even considering buying a drum of Case TCH but would use my hydraulic oil if there's no advantage to using the TCH. Whats your take?
Case tractors over here use a trans fluid called hytran which I found to be an excellent product
You're right Stock, Hytrans is a very good oil - specially blended foe Case - there is no aftermarket equivelent for it. If you have it by all means use it. I think a Case dealer is a bit of a hike for Ando - I wouldn't specially order Hytrans just for a shuttle - 10 grade & 68 are readily available to anyone. Those borg warner shuttles have been around well before Hytans was ever thought of. I've used 68 in shuttles for decades & if that's what you have Ando, it won't do any harm
Just so there is a little less confusion... Do not use HyTrans. Use HyTrans Ultra. HyTrans was discontinued some years ago but there is still some floating out there. If you find TCH thats ok to use also.We used that for years before the HyTrans Ultra invention. Case still manufactures TCH for their Dozers. So the dealership should stock a few gallons. p.s. next time take your shuttle and T/C to the dealership and get a Re-Man. This will save you the time and hassel of rebuliding. Most of the time the shuttle spool o-rings have worked a groove in the housing and now the housing is bad. You will also get a Warranty! Parts+Your labor+(mass)internet confusion= heartburn. Re-man+Warranty= extra beer time!
I like how you think,but in Auz where case dealers are as rare as radiators for volkswagon beetles one gets nailed on de price......................
Hey TheCaseGuy, welcome to HEF! When did you get your last 'power tan transfusion" ?:naughty Truth is - 1) most of fitters working at dealers here probably never even seen one of these shuttles. 2) Here where Ando & I live (Queensland Australia) there are only 6 or 7 CE dealers to cover an area of about 1.8 million square km. - These dealers are only located on the coastal cities - Of those dealerships, they are all owned by one company - bar 1 maybe 2. - Stock pretty well hit the nail on the head re; pricing :notworthy 3) Have you read Ando's story? A dealer rebuilt shuttle would cost more than what he paid for his whole machine! This is why HEF exists - so people like Ando (hundreds if not thousands) can get help from people like you & me. Cheers from Down Under :drinkup (Would someone else like to use the speakers podium?)
If I had the cash to spend (in one hit) trust me, I would have gone for a recon shuttle. Actually, I would have just bought the 580SK up the road for $33,000. Being a fitter, I need to "do it myself" I acutally enjoy the process (yeah...I'm strange) Hey, half the stuff I own is crap that I've fixed/built up myself.
"Being a fitter, I need to "do it myself" I actually enjoy the process (yeah...I'm strange) Hey, half the stuff I own is crap that I've fixed/built up myself." I love that! My philosophy exactly!
Good one Alrman, we are all trying to save each other money. Phil
Well, I was all revved up to reassemble the shuttle on the weekend but forgot to get a new ball bearing for the forward clutch/mainshaft. The old one seems fine, although, for the sake of five bucks, I'll get a new one on Monday. The forward clutch went together without a hassle. I set the clearance at 0.5mm. (the manual recommends 0.28-1.17mm) Since I don't have a new bearing, thought I'd rebuild the control valve assembly. The spool had been washed but I hadn't taken too much notice of it, apart from checking the outer diameter for wear. I didn't notice that there was no roll pin (41) in the threaded end......or that there was no plunger (39) or spring (40) :Banghead: Not happy!
This could explain why, even though it appears that the shuttle has had work done to it (new seals here and there, anti-sieze on the bolts) it was not operating correctly. Whoever rebuilt/serviced the shuttle, must've lost the plunger and spring. I know a bloke with an earthmoving repair shop, who reckons he has some BorgWarner shuttle spares. I'll see if he has a control valve, or bits of one.
Ando, I think you will find that 580K's never had the plunger & pin as it was built in to the solonoid.........
alrman, I've read through my parts listings and manual and both show the missing parts:beatsme Was this a variation that didn't make it into the manuals?
Really good read here ando and i have learned quite a bit... I'm not trying to threadjack but i can't seem for figure out how to make a thread and i'm in dire need of some much needed advice before i pull the trigger tomorrow. Not sure if its because this is my first post or not but I'm looking at a 1985 580E Ext-hoe 2wd for $6500us. Runs/Starts great but has a valve cover gasket leak which i wouldnt imagine to be to bad. Needs a new fan belt and i heard something about having to pull of the hydo pump to put it on? It's been rolled over and most of the glass in the cab is gone/broke and the metal is mangled a bit. Everything seems to work ok and does not appear to have much slop in the hoe. Most of the Cylnder seals are leaking and need replacing except for all cylnders on the hoe. The thing that concerns me the most is when i looked under the unit it looked like the input shaft to the tranny(or whatever you call it) is leaking. Not sure what kinda job this would be. It's been about 10 years since ive used a hoe and never wrenched on them so this is all new to me kinda... Is there anything else i should look at before hand on these models that could be $$ repairs? Once again ando i appologize for posting this in your thread and i will edit my post and remove most of this post after i make up my mind tomorrow. And thanks again for taking time to document your adventure. Helps us internet mechanics a lot
Ando, that solonoid set up was only in the K's - & Case probably used the same service manual print from early days as the K shuttle was much the same as a 580C - late 70's era. I looked at your shuttle pictures again & that is the sol. on yours - so it wont use the plunger & pin that your worried about. As you can see, if you had the plunger & spring you show above - the solonoid won't fit with that plunger hanging out of it. repairguy, welcome, you need 3 posts to start your own thread - you should be able to do that soon. probably best you do that & we'll all help out. ps (log out & back in again)
Sounds good alrman, I was dreading the thought of trying to find a plunger and spring only (as opposed to a whole control spool) cheers:drinkup tharepairguy, as alrman mentioned, just make 3 posts and you're a goa. As far as your machine goes, I'm not sure what the market $ is like in Illinois. The repairs sound easy enough, belt replacement is in this thread and the leaking seal should be an easy one too.
Progress...I finished rebuilding the shuttle on the weekend and it is ready to reinstall, except for the dipstick tube fitting, that screws into the shuttle. the thread on the compression nut and the nipple is worn and will not tighten. Hopefully I can track down a replacement part (any suggestions) I have now moved the hoe' into the shed, to make reinstallation of the shuttle a little easier. I did a visual on the torque converter alignment. I'd estimate it's about 3mm or so out of centre, no wonder the charge pump was leaking! Next job-remove and realign TC on mounting plate.
Ando, "Not So Squeezy" - hoe just fits in shed! That's a positive find on covertor mounting - should help fixing that leak. Have a good look at the convertor when you have it out - it's not common, but they do get cracks sometimes around the welded areas. Have never needed to replace the filler tube fitting before - it's a pretty big reduction, so they may be a little hard to find. You'll probably have trouble sourcing a genuine part as there would not be much demand on those parts. - try Griffith's again - could have a used one?
Nice job done Ive got a old 480c that needs the shuttle pulled and new gaskets put on. How did you go about removing yours? Ive heard frame needs to be split ?? Or rear axle pulled ??? whats the scoop? thanks
Sorry, you will have to consult the 480 experts for that.
I removed the torque converter and drive plate from the flywheel and checked the alignment on the bench. It was about 3mm off centre. I used a set of vernier calipers to the bolt holes/spigot and got it to about half a millimetre. A quick clean up of the flywheel to remove any surface rust and the TC went back in, followed by the power shuttle. I balanced the shuttle on a trolley jack and guided it into the spigot. It was a pretty precarious job for one person, balancing on the trolley jack. I think if I had to do it again, I'd knock up a purpose built cradle for it. A mate of mine did the same job to his backhoe a while back and tore the charge pump seal three times before they got it right. Getting the alignment correct is critical.
Fitted dozens of those shuttles over the years Ando, never used a jack , ever. Like you say - precarious. Always wanted to make a cradle for a jack - always in a rush to get job done, so never did. Always lifted the machine as high as could get it on stabilizers & lifted them in by hand. Sitting upright under machine , lift it onto knees , big breath , using knees & arms - up & in. Sounds worse than it actually is to do.........
Electrical time I will be installing non genuine analogue gauges to the machine, much like amunderdog has. I've gone through the wiring schematic and marked all the wires on the machine with tape labels, just to make it easier. The original strip plug for the dash was removed and I've gone through and tested all the wires for continuity. A few had no circuit, so I got underneath and disconnected the plugs over the differential Where there was pins and sockets, in some places there is now green powder.
Ok, the corroded plugs were cut off, the wiring extended and I'm ready to reconnect to the side console loom now. Even though I'm not planning on having indicators etc, all wires have been carried through (just in case) I've replaced one fuseblock with an aftermarket item (6 fuse) and fitted a new relay as well.
WOW! Nice job on all those repairs. Thats alot of work to do. I owned a 580K 4x4 hoe. It was used and abused by its previous owner. The guy had rolled it and didnt tell me and i later found the entire transmission was basicly just barely holding together. I thought rebuilding that entire mess was an expensive labor intense job before i saw your project. Looks like you will have it ready to go soon. Looking forward to seeing it all finished and painted. Good thread.
I refitted the side console housing and the dash panel. I'm running -Engine temp gauge (didn't work, will have to check sender/continuity) -Trans temp gauge (didn't work, probably needs new sender) -Voltmeter (it worked :scool ) -Fuel gauge (new aftermarket sender to be fitted soon) (tach to come later) -Engine oil pressure lamp (also works well) -Alternator lamp (not lighting, have to track continuity problem) -Air filter lamp (on, possibly faulty switch) -Hyd oil filter lamp (also on)
Shuttle test run Anyway, after fitting the dash etc. I bolted the seat in and took the old girl for a test run.......once I got it going...... I turned the key and the machine started, no worries. Bucket down and I've done a quick pre-flight for oil leaks etc. Back in the drivers seat and into FWD....no movement. OK I try reverse, still nothing. My mind is racing, what did I forget to do.....was the shuttle refitted correctly etc etc etc... Just then I realize that I hadn't selected a gear. ROFL The shuttle runs perfectly. I dug a few buckets of dirt around the yard but it won't push much with no weight on the rear wheels (the hoe is still off) So, a good result so far. Next step is to chase those couple of wiring faults, then it's back to the swingtower/refit the hoe/replace extension cylinder seal.
Aye mate, it helps to have a little weight on the arse eh. Repairs look great bro, nice seat. Great pics too.
I don't know what makes me angryer, people who intentionally run a machine after it's busted until it stops or people who are so ignorant that they do the same thing unintentionally. And then they try to sell it saying they don't know of any problems. Very inspiring rebuild. Keep up the good work OldHH
Yeah mate I was just procrastinating when I spoke of making a cradle....LOL It wasn't so bad, I was just wary of tearing the seal on the TC drive lugs. I even filed, then wet and dry'd any sharp edges.
I should have waited until the hoe was back on....but it was all a bit too exciting for me, I just had to dig. The look on my 14mth old son's face was priceless too
OldHH, I know what you mean. When I look at the pics of the front axle damage......and the time and $ to repair........all for the sake of a bloody bearing replacement. The previous owner wanted $11000 for this machine. I did some research on HEF, discovering the common faults and repair methods and offered $5000. I'm up to the $9000 mark now (excluding my labor of course, which is priceless) and the end is in sight.
Hours Ando How many hours do you think your Case had on it ?And did you have any engine issues/
Ando, have you got to the welding yet? I'm curious how you weld up a fuel tank on this. Thanks for the thread, very interesting reading.
Ando, Great thread and great job on your project you are very talented. Thanks for all the pictures and info. I look forward to seeing the finished product but will be disappointed that the project is complete. I hope we see another project of yours on here again sometime. Gary
I just purchased a 1991 Super K. Just wanted one to use. I have enjoyed the information you shared on the rebuild. i just have a question reguarding the instrument panel. On my unit to the left of the guages are 2 round black knobs. As of now I have yet to figure out what the do. Would you have a clue what they are for?
Ando, Mike from New England here. You remind me of any old New England yankee farmer, resourceful and multi-talented, just like our Canadian brothers like Phil, or a southern 'red-neck' shade-tree mechanic, etc. Talent and ingenuity can be found worldwide...Bravo!
Bill, the hourmeter had about 6000hrs on it, from memory. No engine issues yet but I've barely run it (still in progress of rebuild)
I've still got the swingtower, mounting frame bushes (bottom) and the fuel tank to do yet. Tank repair will be as follows: -Drain tank and purge with CO2 (I'll just drop the hose into the filler neck of the tank and set the gas regulator very low) -vee out cracks with grinder (75% of plate thickness, to get a full penetration when welding), drilling a small (5mm) hole at the ends (stops the crack from reappearing) -weld cracks with either a 71T MIG wire or Eutectic 6666 electrodes. -light grind the surface (don't take too much of the weld metal off) -seal the tank, pressurise to 2-4psi and use soapy water to check all cracks were sealed correctly. -paint surfaces -have a beer NB: -it's not the fuel that explodes in tanks, it's the fuel/air mix. I've welded cracks on large tanks (20tonne) by filling the tank and purging the remaining airspace with CO2. The other way is to drain the tank and purge or drain tank and steam clean. -without getting a full penetration weld (+drilling the ends of the cracks) you may as well not bother......it will crack again
The 580k has been on the back burner for a while now. We've had a massive cyclone hit our coast and I'm still cleaning up from that Hopefully I'll get back onto it in the next few weeks
looks like a great project coming along nicely. goodluck with the rest
man you have really gone to town on this thing. I can wait to see it finished
Just want to thank you for your thread. Pictures are great as is explanation of work and progress. Your efforts and success are inspirational for us beginners. Thanks again. Packratc
So.........I'd put the 580k on the back burner for a while. My wife and I have another son now (5mths old) Things have been hectic! The bushings in the hoe swing tower and the frames bottom bush are still to be done, as well as the swing cylinder seals. (+ a few odd bits too) In preparation for this years wet season, I'm putting gravel and deco on our road into the property. My old International B275, with the loader, broke the right side loader boom and snapped the bucket tilt ram..........guess I pushed it a bit too far, although the loader boom arms have rusted to a thickness of about 2mm, near the bucket pins.
Starter problem??? I've gone through and repaired the B275 boom arms but the broken nut on the bucket ram will take a bit more work(positional welding of cast is a challenge...it'll have to come off later) I've decided to use the 580 to finish the job on my road. It's pretty light in the rear end with no hoe but with small loads and using the bucket for levelling, the job was finished. Unfortunately both cylinder seals on the 4 in 1 rams blew, on the first load, so I've got some arriving tomorrow or Monday (the only seals on the loader end that didn't get replaced!) I used the machine for 4-5 hours.....the power shuttle works a treat! (thank God) I've parked up when finished and went to move it a couple of hours later........the engine cranks very slowly, as if the battery is flat. I've replaced the small 4WD battery with a 950CCA unit and hit the key again.......no change. The engine cranks very slowly as if the battery is flat. My first port of call with be the starter motor/leads/solenoid. I've checked the oil, which was still on the "full" mark on the dipstick and no cloudiness. I've also checked the radiator which was full and no oil in there......so I think I can rule out a blown head gasket/water in the bores. I've also turned the engine by hand (fan blade) and while tight, it didn't seem excessively hard to turn. If anyone has had similar starter motor problems, or rebuilt one, I'd appreciate any advice.
I think I need to get a service manual. Has anyone experience with the downloadable ones off the net? http://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/7642177-case-580k-prior-to-jjg0020000-phase-1
Been a while Ando! Just a thought about your starting problem, is it possible any of the hoe controls are stuck & trying to pressurise the hyd pump? Without the hoe fitted you probably have all hoses capped off. Dead heading the pump will make it hard to start.
howyagoin alrman, it has been awhile alright. I've been lurking but the hoe's been set aside while we get over the cyclone in Feb and then the new arrival in June I'll have another look to make sure all the controls are centred and not loading the pump. I'll give the starter motor a birthday over the weekend just to be sure. (check brushes/com/bearings) Hey have you seen any of the internet download manuals? If so are they any good. My old mate at the local Case dealership has retired, so I can't grab the manual, sit on the couch and have a read anymore
re manual - I've got the real thing. Only ever seen a "user friendly CD" from ebay for a 580B. Not too bad, could actually read it. That tradebit one does look the part - not too badly priced if it's the real deal. Hopefully someone on here has one to recommend. With the amount of work you have done on the 'old girl', I thought you would have had one on the shopping list long ago....... PS - I think AUCASE has bought one from somewhere??? Sure he'll let you know.
If you do get that one from tradebit, let us know how you come out. I have the real thing, and a pdf version I bought off ebay years ago. I transfered it to a flashdrive so it wouldn't take up much room in my truck. It is good as the real one. That tradebit site has a couple of Komatsu manuals I want.
When you get that starter on the ground touch the jumper cables to it and see if it kicks like a mule. Careful it doesn't get away from you.
Ando it was quit a while ago but I do beleive I downloaded a case 580 se manual from www.ioffer.com/selling/userfriendlycds . Regards Bill
Well...the starter motor was removed and stripped today. It's absoloutely filthy inside of course. The solenoid looks ok, with the usual pitting on the contacts. The brushes are worn down quite a bit and the starter motor armature may be burnt out as I cant get a continuity reading. I'll take it in to work tomorrow to "growl" it.
The alternator armature tested OK. I showed it to an automotive bloke we deal with. He diagnosed the brushesgear and the contactors in the solenoid are RS. Should be ready to pick up this afternoon Interesting.....he used a test bench to check the starter motor and straight away thought it was running way too slow. The brushes will cause this.
I put the reconditioned starter motor back on, yesterday. The engine turns over quite fast now and starts easily. That's a relief....I was worried it was something major. The starter refurb set me back $220. This weekends project will be rebuilding the clam cylinder rams. (and finishing my access road)
Ando, Excellent thread. I wish I was as resourceful (smart) as you. You mentioned that you were planning on adapting a fuel gauge sensor to your 580. I eagerly await your write up of that as I to have a bad fuel sensor and they want over $220 us for the replacement. I really want to get everything running on my 580sk but @220 for a sensor is outside the budget. Keep it coming. Thanks
Andersce, the replacement sender has not been fitted as yet. I actually purchased a sender and matching gauge (VDO brand) I think it was about $140 all up. I replaced the 4 in 1 bucket seals on the weekend. I'd planned to have them both done in 2-3hrs.......hahahaha The first cylinder gland was very tight, possibly loctited, so I applied some heat and removed the gland pretty easily. The dustwiper and seal had turned to goo, letting water in, so of course there was a fair bit of rust to clean up. The second cylinder gland was even tighter! I acutally broke my gland nut spanner..... A quick repair and peen of the cylinder thread area and it came out easily... The design of these particular gland nuts means that the threaded area can fill with water and corrode.....the o-ring and backing washer are below the threaded area. Not a good design. The threads were wire brushed to remove the rust and I applied Lanoguard to the threads.
With both cylinders rebuilt, I bled the brakes (12mths after refurbishing them) and took the old girl for a test run. Had me little mate come along too As mentioned the old seals were just a goey mess...
Ahh, so good to see another wrench bender that utilizes the peening process to remove a seized cylinder gland. Rock on Ando.
My repairs inspected and approved!
Thanks mate, I've even seen a specialist shop in town ruin cylinders and glands with too much heat. Peening is the gentle way to go....so easy!
I downloaded one of these manuals for my 580SE. For some reason maybe 4 pages were blank. Also the pictures are not the best quality. I do not know if the CD version would be any better. The download is huge also. Yet I have used this often. My problem with the technical manual is that some simple tasks are omitted. You need to be somewhat familar with the machine to use the technical manual. What I need now is an operators manual for the 580 Super E.
Hey Bowen, I've heard some pretty bad reviews of the downloaded manuals and have decided to go for a hardcopy one. I also have an operators manual on order from newoldmanuals.com, so I'll be interested to see what the quality of it is, when it arrives. It seems like there may be additional info in the operation manual that is not on the service manual.
Ando, thanks for the quick reply. Does the sender you bought fit in the standard location or will it require fitting? Could I get some details on the sender and gauge (VDO what)? I'm trying to figure out a sender that can be adapted to work with the standard gauge. Thanks for all your help.
great post .what do you mean by peening? tks tb
The fuel level sender I bought is meant for a top entry type use, so I will have to modify it to suit. VDO part no.s #V220.004 -FUEL LEVEL SENDER, 150-535MM ADJUSTABLE 0-90OHMS and #V301 010 010 -GAUGE, FUEL 50MM BLACK FACE, 0-90OHMS I've completely removed the original gauges/panel from the side console and fitted 50mm gauges. I will have to replace the senders on the shuttle (oil temp) and engine (water temp) to suit the new gauges though. Peening - Basically just tapping but not hard enough to excessively deform the metal. For the hydraulic cylinders use a ball pein hammer (fitters don't use claw hammers) tap around the outside of the cylinder, where the gland nut thread is (2-3" from the end of the tube) You don't want to leave huge marks in the metal, you're just peening the area to "break the seal" between the thread of the gland nut and the cylinder. The cylinders I had to pein had rust on the top few threads.
Here is another thread with the peening method used......read ATCO's posts...good advice! HeavyEquipmentForums
This is a great thread. I have to admit for the first 4-5 pages I was just quickly looking at the pictures and reading a small amount but around page 5 I started reading more and have read every post. Now to go back and see what I missed. I just recently purchased a 87' 580K. it's needs some TLC and I'm sure this thread will give me the motivation I need to start tackling some projects on it. Keep up the good work!
Bump...
Whilst the refurb is not complete...it continues slowly. The machine gets used so much as a loader that there is little time left to actually work on the major parts. The steering cylinder recently left a trail all the way home from the paddock. Closer inspection revealed a large ding in the RHS of the rod and a corresponding tear in the RH seal. Rebuild time (it always wept, so was on that long, long list anyway) Strip and clean...
You will notice the gland blocks on the cylinder are missing the ears and have fabricated plates instead (for mounting) I don't know why this is; it was like that when I got the machine. I didn't get a photo of the ding in the rod but is was approx 8mm across and about 4mm deep. The damaged area was masked to keep spatter off and coated with Lanolin grease (makes a good anti spatter...can't be too sure eh!) The rod was welded with an electrode; Eutectic 680CGS 2.5mm @ 80amps, basically spotted, until the hole was fillted. DC inverter power source (Eutectic 200 AC/DC) The 680's are a high nickel electrode and can be used with NO undercut. I've welded several hydraulic rods (among other things) with these electrodes and made recommendations/overseen some very large repairs. One of the best cost saving examples was the main boom rod on a 100tonne crane. The repair took a few hours as opposed to removal/new rod/refit. (sales mode off!!) haha
Once welded I apply a 2nd cut b*****d file to the weld, careful not to mark the chrome with the corner of the file. Once you get down a ways it's unavoidable but the file slides off the chrome as long as the file is flat. Final finish is done with a stone. I've got a 5" round stone for polishing. Finish off with a polish with a buff and its ready to reassemble. If you've got access to a lathe and grinding apparatus, of course that's the easier way to finish off the weld. The seals on the steering cylinder were really hard to get back in...I had to boil the jug a couple of times to make the seals pliable enough to get in. The swing tower is now off to get machined, ready for a new tapered bush/block to be welded in. (I really need the hoe)
Swing tower, to be repaired. This is a fabricated tower (not cast) which was standard to the early 580k's in my neck of the woods (according to the old spare parts bloke at Case) When I got the machine, the bottom swing tower pin resembled an olive....and made the hoe unusable. The bottom mount bush and the swingtower pin bush were completely flogged out. I've had a tapered, weld-in bush made up for the swing tower (it's in the pics) and a weld-in bush for the frame. (the hardened bush in then pressed in to that) The two top plates on the swing tower were spread, from the bottom pin being so sloppy (the tower hung at about 85 degrees) The top 32mm plate had to be bent back down 22mm and the lower 25mm plate had to come up 45mm. To do this I welded some temporary gussets and framing on the tower and used a 50T porta power ram.
Good reading. And I though I had problems. LOL.
Well...I like a challenge! There's a few, older (than 580) cheap units around now that the economy has slowed ($18-20k) although in 2008-9 it was more like $25k + for a dunga. I'll get out of this for $11k (ish)
I paid $7K for my 580C extendedhoe (1979) and have dropped another 1K in it sofar. I have to replace all pins and bushing, rebuild more cylinders and control valves. No telling what or how much it's going to cost me in the long run. Dam thing is like a boat, B reak O ut A nother T housand. LOL
Got an update, Ando?
BUMP-sure hope Ando comes back to tell the end of the tale-this is worse than staying up all night to read a good novel and finding the last page missing!
I learned a heap reading this thread, hope we get to see the finished beast!
Err, I've been a little busy lately. Hope everyone is well. Still now hoe on the old girl yet, although it has been used most months since the last update. We had a huge bushfire come close to the house today so I pushed a couple of fire brakes. 1st gear has had a loud whine for a while so I've been using 2nd for light pushing. I pushed for about an hour today then though I would select 4th to travel to the next area to work in. No go for 4th, then same for 2nd. The shifter feels very sloppy as well. I put the machine in to 1st and parked it up. I'll have to delve through the manual to find if there is an adjustment for the shifter; if not the selectors will be the next stop.
I've had two. both leaked torque converter progressively worse. I took my present one for repair to the dealer. It was fixed in a day. Parts cost $50, labor cost $950. When low 4th doesn't work well. Your hoe is very different from mine. My boom is massive with one big lift cylinder.
Hey Ando! Just come & visit when you want something eh? Take a look at the bottom of the gearshift lever, there is a pivot that has a habit of coming loose. Hope it's an easy fix for you. cheers
I have two sons that DNA would confirm. The count of those who have adopted me is between three and four. Sheer chance all six are unnaturally strong. Andy does not yet know it. When transmission gears aren't moving at all, they sometimes don't easily slip into gear. We're still training Andy you don't force it. The linkage keeps getting bent/broken. I hope that's what you are dealing with.
Hey guys the ROPS s/n is not the VIN if your tag usually located right above the left step. Now the hidden s/n is under the operators platform on top of the frame where you step onto platform.
I'm curious how much the Aussie 580K differed from the USA version. The 580K was built in Iowa? Or was it? A good friend demoed both the 580K and G at the same time. He remembers there was $20,000 dollars difference between the tractors. He pointed out the flat glass on the G, higher ground clearance, taller tires, lower price, and a whole lot less moulded plastic, and upholstery on the Italian? built G. The K was to his thinking, not worth the extra money. Dearly loved, and cared for, passed from first owner, to next door neighbor, who also cares for it, at 3000 hours, it's tired! My K has almost 5000 hours, The interior upholstery is very tired, everything electrical has failed, and been replaced at least once. Function wise, it is still going strong. I love my K but recognise that all that plastic moulded interior luxury was never intended for VT winters. At -20 F that plastic shatters like glass. Carpet, and fluffy stuff won't hold up in weather, and holds moisture encouraging mildew, and rust. I notice you have a different hoe, I wonder how much else is different.
The tractor & front loader are the US built machines, however most were sold as side shift backhoes. The side shift frames for the hoes were built here in Australia using original Case control valves, cylinders, booms, dippers, buckets & bolted on to the tractor chassis. The stabilizers were known as scissor type, pivoting down from the centre of the side shift frame. They were considered to be a little unstable..... I've seen many skilled operators swinging the hoes with the tractor on two wheels..... & a few unskilled guys doing it too! There were the US centre mount hoes sold here as well, but far fewer than the side shift models. The 580G model never officially was sold over here, although there are a few around that were imported from the European market.
Huh? I can't say I've seen a side shift hoe except in manuals. Why so many down under?
I'm not really sure how it came about, consumer demand I guess. Here, a backhoe can dig parallel to & 12" away from a wall or fence.... "So many" is a bit of an overstatement, while the percentages of sideshift vs centremount is very high here, in the 80's I think Australia had about 3 or 4 percent of all the backhoe market share in the world! Today would likely be even less. Sorry Ando.....getting a bit carried away here.....
Hey guys to add to the conversation on sideshift V center mount backhoe is that Europe had such narrow streets the center mount took up to much room on the streets, just my thoughts. And BTW I've seen one side shift backhoe here in the states many years ago.
Ok, I've gotten back to the 580 to check the gear linkages- all good by the looks of it. So I dug a little deeper; took the top/selector door off the box. One selector fork had broken off. Perfect; an easy fix. In the box itself, it all looked good until I grabbed the driveshaft and turned it. The mainshaft roller bearings are running without rollers. A couple of the gears show signs of damage on the edges, where they've probably been only just meshing. That would explain the noise! Pics will be up later.
Yep - Those shift forks don't break for no reason...... Let the transaxle rebuild begin ......
Here is the transaxle mainshaft, revealed from beneath the selector door (that's what I call them anyway) I have a F clamp holding 4th gear up to the front face to remove the snap ring. Note also the lack of rollers in the "roller bearing" which has become a slightly oversized bush haha Also see a couple of said rollers having a little holiday in the cavity up top. Here is the selector forks, with the 1st and second gear fork broken off.
I'm hoping the rest of the transaxle checks out alright, ie: pinion shaft, ring gears etc. Best case scenario would be new bearings on the mainshaft, re-install correctly, replacement selector fork and away we go. Fingers crossed. I really don't want to have to remove the entire transaxle from the backhoe. When I originally bought and cleaned up the machine I did notice the selector door did have excess sealant around it. Judging by other previous, poor quality repairs on the machine, I wondered about how good any work in there would have been done. Keeping that in mind; when I removed the cover from the front of the transaxle, I noticed there were no shims on the mainshaft roller bearing. I wonder whether they've been chewed up with that mainshaft flogging around in there, or whether they were ever fitted at all?
I need these for this 446b cat where do I find?
If I remember correctly Ando made those bushings himself. You can see it here. ----->
That's correct Tinkerer; I had the bushes machined out of 4140 steel. I purchased the new bottom swing pin from Case and had the tapered repair bush made to suit.
I would like to have suggestions on how to fix my swing tower I have it off, and got a new pin from cat and two bushings. The bottom of the swing tower is egged.
Ando described the repair quite well in the link I posted. Or you can buy a used swing tower here ----> https://www.wengers.com/parts/const...ing-tower-assembly-14/swing-frame-9r0232.html
So the bottom bush will not seat in the swing tower? My swing tower is fabricated steel. The CAT tower will likely be a ductile cast iron. A Eutectic hot spray torch would be my first pick for repair. The hot spray powder brazes on to the surface of the cast so no dramas with HAZ (heat affected zone) and hardness. You can then line bore the repaired area. Alternatively, it can be welded, then bored to accept the new bush. You will need to find someone who knows how to tab test the cast and filler metal to find the most suitable electrode for the repair. If the wrong electrode is used the repair area will be too hard to machine afterwards. Not sure what engineering rates are like in your area but over here (Australia) I'd be quoting budget pricing of $600-800. A second-hand tower may be a good option.
The tower in the link is for 416 where I have 446b.
Oooops ! It is. If that one for a 416 is a $1000.00 plus shipping is an indication as to what they sell for I would think a machine shop could repair yours like Ando did for a lot less than that. Or maybe have it repaired by line boring it.
So I had the swing tower line bored and bushed $975. Seems fair. I will pick it up in ADA Oklahoma in the A.M. The 446b seemed to not have any power in the swing how would I diagnose bad resolver seals?
Just to update the thread...the replacement (used) selector fork has arrived in the mail. I'm in the process of tracking down bearings, clips and seal now. Unfortunately the Case dealer in town shut down a few years back so I'm in touch with another dealer about 400k's away.
Hey Ando did you ever figure what happened to Phil
Unfortunately we may never know what happened to Phil. I spent a lot of time on the internet trying to determine what happened to him. The closest i came was when I found someone on another forum that said he knew Phil and didn't live far from him. I sent a couple of emails to him but didn't get any reply's. Now I don't even have that email address. Just before Phil posted for the last time we were private messaging each other about a micrometer he wanted to buy from me. That discussion ended the same time he quit posting on HEF.
Thanks Tinkerer . He had so much knowledge of the old case backhoes .
I still miss his awesome help on the old 580's. I was hoping his son would have posted something about him. Nice looking young man. He was in one of Phil's photos. The thread was about Phil's ---> Dead Goat Machine. I just found the photo. Anyone know what the windshield tag represents ??
Tinkerer is that a 580e
I believe that is a D series
It is a 480D.
I knew it was a D series
@Tinkerer That 361 sticker looks like an auction sticker John. Another lead to track Phil down maybe?
Sorry, I haven't heard from Phil in ages. Maybe just busy???
So, I have now received two second hand selector forks. Only one was broken, though the other is worn on one side so I'll replace both. All bearings and seals/rings etc are on hand as well. I dug around in the shed a couple of weeks ago and got all the swingtower pins etc out. The bottom of the swing tower frame was flogged out really badly so has to be bushed to accept a new bush. Unfortunately i forgot to take of pic of the machining when i linebored the lower frame member. Stay tuned kids; pics of the fresh lineboring and parts to come tomorrow.
I set up the lineborer and took the bottom frame out to suit the new insert. I've gone size for size so the insert will be snug. Will also do a 45 degree prep for the weld. I'll get the oxy and cut the old boss off the bottom. The new insert will be pulled in from the bottom and welded out. There are two gussets under there that pick up the boss as well.
The gearbox door with the old intact selector fork still in there. I'll replace this as there is a bit of wear on the side.
Nice work Ando ! Can you post a couple of photos of your line-boring set up ?
Hi Tinkerer, I didn't even think to take a shot of the setup on the hoe, although here is a pic from a job earlier on the same day. I welded and resized the articulation bearing clevis' on a mining jumbo. The drive unit is at the top; at this stage i was boring the bottom hole.
Very nice setup Ando ! Seems you have more talents than I knew about from your earlier posts. If you have time, Take a look in Shop Talk. There is a member there needing info on line boring setups.
Well after so long out of action and myself being too busy on customer jobs and various other projects of my own, I'm getting a fitter in to do the transaxle for me. Just waiting on some additional parts at the moment. The mainshaft will be pulled and bearings/seals/split rings replaced. At least I'll get it up and going for wet season road preparations. Once the wet season is in full swing I'll refurb the hoe and get it back on the machine. Here are a couple of lineboring job pics just for fun. I designed and built the rock grab for 10 tonne rocks that a client is handling.
Hi Ando ! Nice to see you back. Geez, your shop is cleaner than my kitchen. I knew you had machinist skills from following your basket case. I was impressed when you refurbished the swing tower on your 580. I didn't know you did line boring. I hope you realize your thread has had over 100,000 views !
Never mind 100,000 views! He does line boring!!!!!! Might be 15000 miles away. He understands line boring!
Jesus! I've owned two 580 K machines. I wish I understood them!
I understand line boring I just can’t do line boring
Anyone that has the time and interest, I recommend reading this thread from the beginning. Super interesting what he has done in the Australian heat.
Thanks mate, I come in a lurk every now and then to see what everyone is up to and answer a post if I can help. Haha, luck the rest of the shed is in the dark background...it was a mess. Customer was in a panic to get this oversized grab so extreme hours were required. I hope what I'm doing with my backhoe can help out anyone restoring a similar machine. I feel pretty bad that it's taken since 2009 to get this far but as soon as the machine was usable (the loader at least) it was put to work which of course meant the hoe was set aside. I'm hoping to have the machine fully assembled and painted in the next six months or so..(probably said that in the first 2009 post too)
I pulled the mainshaft today. Didn't go as smoothly as the manual describes. Some broken parts and burrs on the spline meant I had to tap it all the way out. Pics of parts....and pieces of the synchro plates/bearing and washers.
Bits and pieces
Thankfully the countershaft, crownwheels and pinion all look ok. There is the obligatory 1/4" of sludge in the bottom of the diff but this will all get a flush out before reassembly.