I just bought a 1989 case 580k. It was a trade in at a dealer. They checked it over and checked and changed some fluids. The motor oil at least seems new. This is my first backhoe and I'm trying to learn. I used it about an hour or more yesterday and it worked great. I did notice some black oil dripping out of the bell housing after it was working awhile and completely warmed up. I followed another thread on here and its said the plug on the bottom of the bell housing should be open and it is. I need to know where this oil is coming from and what I need to do about it. Its black dirty oil and the engine oil is new but could it have picked up dark color in the bell housing. It smells and feels like motor oil to me but I suppose it could be from somewhere else. I could use some help on this. How big of a problem is this ? Could some fluid just have been overfilled ? What should I do to fix this and is it safe to run ? I was hoping to do some work with it today. Thank you
Sounds like you may have an engine rear seal leak and YES it can turn black on its way out the bottom by following a previous trail. It really depends on how bad the oil leak is on whether it is safe to run. A drip with the age of the machine is not unusual but if it is a steady drip leaving a puddle in a short time or its leaving a trail as you travel, then it would need to be repaired. The repair would require the removal of the engine or the shuttle transmission and torque convertor. I find the latter less intrusive although you are on your back doing so.
Thank you vetch. That might be bad news. I think the leak amount is somewhere between the two descriptions you gave. If I keep a close eye on the oil level it sounds like i could run it right ? I have some light work for it today. Could it be any other fluid than engine oil ? I sure hope I don't have to replace the seal as I'm not equipped to do it myself. It seems like a great machine other than that. I've only had it three days.
Welcome to HEF, Johnnymc ! Go ahead and run the machine. But, pay attention as to how much oil is leaking out. If it isn't a lot just keep the engine full. Any kind of warranty come with it from the dealer ?
No, no warranty unfortunately, I'm still trying to figure out how much it's leaking because I've been working on unlevel ground and it runs out only when the front end is up. I'm going to use the backhoe later and maybe that will tell me more because of being in one spot. So far the oil level hasn't moved at all, but I've only run it a couple hours. Thanks again for the reply
Any idea how many hours labor it would be for a professional to fix it ?
That question is hard to give a definitive answer to. It depends on what caused the seals to leak. If it only involves replacing the seals Melben or Coy can probably tell you. Raise the rear wheels off the ground with the stabilizers and shut off the engine. Roll each wheel in both directions and listen for noise from the bearings. Let us know if there is any noise or vibration.
So I dug with the backhoe for a couple hours today and no leak at all. When it did leak I was grading with the front bucket. Does that tell us anything? Also both rear wheels turn both directions smoothly. Just a slight sound of the gears turning and no vibration
Also when it did leak yesterday, I did have it in 4 wheel drive for a bit.
I had to replace the rear engine seal on a 580K I had but it leaked for a while before I got at it once it really started leaking.
Two 580K I have owned leaked from the seal in the torque converter. By the time it gets to the ground it is not clean. One tractor I was told had a rebuilt torque converter before I bought it. Next one was low hour, I owned it some time before it started drooling. I took it to the Case dealer, the fix was about $1000.
Please ignore my irrelevant comment in post # 4. It was intended for a different thread.
I'm not yet confident what's leaking. Until you know that, you won't know cost. If the torque converter, I wouldn't think it'd be under load while digging with the hoe. Both my 580K machines leaked at widely varying rates depending on heat in the torque converter. It'd be a drip now & then if only used 1/2 hour, but loading, or screening, it'd leak bad! Once my son tried to drive it 9 miles. It was mostly uphill 2/3 of thee trip. It leaked so bad it started slipping. Let it cool, filled it back up, it was fine. The one I have now the Case dealer repaired, said it was a seal. Sticks in my mind it took 6 man hours.
Willie, it sounds like I may have the same problem as you. So far it has only leaked when moving and pushing under load. Digging in hard pan yesterday with the hoe and not a drop. I don't have an oil temp gauge but the water temp stays nice and cool. The oil comes out of the bell housing right behind the engine. There is a threaded plug hole that is open and I read on here it should be open ? So torque converter would be transmission oil right ? It did seem to leak more in 4x4 but I'm not sure. How could I narrow this down to be sure ? I'm happy that at least it's not constant and I will only be useing it on my own land but I do intend to build a couple ponds and change the grade around our house. As long as I can keep an eye on the oil and add as needed and it not make it worse that would be ok with me. So this is a real novice question, I have the engine oil dipstick and the hydrolic dipstck in the floor near the backhoe controls. What other levels do I need to check. Is the transmission/transaxle fluid seperate from the hydraulic fluid ? Thanks for sticking with me on this guys, I'm learning alot!
Correct. I believe original equipment design was a plug in that hole that was drilled through with a small cotter pin in the hole and spread on the internal side of the plug itself. Both < either the designed plug or the plug removed serve the same purpose. I believe the plug design was to prevent dirt, twigs, etc.... from making its way into the engine bellhousing. Correct again. You could recognize the smell of the oil possibly and may be worth a try. Smell the oil on both dipsticks and see if you can recognize which it is. You could also monitor the oil levels but a slight leak would take a long time to show up on a dipstick. There is also oil sampling which would be the preferred . I believe Willie may need to correct me if Im wrong but I believe the engine oil and shuttle dipstick is access through the engine compartment. The transaxle thru the floor behind or beside the seat? The hydraulic would be on the side of the frame (left? when sitting in the seat) which would have a fill plug and maybe a sight glass. I have seen so many dam Case backhoes over the years but just cant remember exactly your set up on that one
If you have the leak fixed I'd have both the engine and torque converter seals replaced while it's apart. The extra cost of a seal is insignificant.
Thank you much guys, I will keep you posted if I can narrow this down. At least it sounds like it's fine to run in the meantime without making things worse? I found out today it was a one owner machine from new until me ! Very well taken care of and used on his own wood lot, mostly I think. He traded it for a skid stear, It came with a grapple but the dealer sold that seperatly.
Transaxle oil is thick & stinks to high heaven. Reverser, and torque converter share oil. It is light & clean when it leaves the torque converter shaft, but there will always be residue of engine oil in the bell housing, so it isn't clean by the time it hits the ground. I've had two machines close in serial #s One had a threaded hole bottom of the bell housing, other was smooth bore. It is my guess you could plug the hole, opening it to drain in an appropriate container.
@Johnnymc If you have a dipstick near the BH control levers that would be your transaxle oil level & filler location - meaning you have a phase 3 transaxle fitted to 580K's after serial number JJG200000. This would be further confirmed by the 4 speed shifter coming from the dash & not the floor. The transaxle uses what CNH call - Hy Trans Ultra oil along with a rear axle oil additive which must be mixed at 20:1 Your hydraulic oil is filled from under the hood/bonnet release flap - not to be confused with your diesel filler location also under the flap. There is a sight glass for the hydraulic oil level on the RHS chassis. You only have two dipsticks - engine & transaxle. You really need to obtain an operators manual - specific to your serial number.
When I bought the first 580K Case specified Case TCH fluid. (Transmission, Clutch, hydraulic) These days they call for Hy Tran. I first encountered Hy Tran as a child. My father had, and my mother did work for the IH tractor dealer. I was aware of Hy Tran in the early sixties. Over the years it has been reformulated many times. It is an impressive product with additives addressing many problems. These days Hy Tran is a Case marketed oil.
His is 89. I believe the shift lever is through the floor near the right door. It'll have a transaxle dip stick under the seat. They specify heavy gear oil. Reverser/torque converter dipstick is on the right side near the bell housing. Case / IH Hy Tran. Engine oil on the engine. In Saranac Lake, 10W-30all but August.
Pretty much what I was thinking but.......my memory sometimes is
Thank you Willie B and Alrman for the excellent info. I don't smell any sulfur smell like gear oil normally has. I dug with the backhoe again today and not a drop of oil. I'm thinking when I use the loader it will leak again but I wont know till I try. My engine oil level is down about a half quart. It needs to be changed, I'm not sure why I said it was fresh oil in a previous post.? Where would be a good place to get a manual ? I haven't found the serial # yet. Someone said it's near one of the loader pivot points but I haven't found it yet. In the mean time can you recomend what engine oil, filters, and hydraulic oil I should use? It has just under 5,000 hours. I see at least three filters not counting the fuel filter. Two side by side under the hood left side and a longer one I saw from underneath right side. What grease is correct for this machine and should I invest in a power grease gun ? This is such a great site to get advice from people who actually know, thank you for all the help.
I have a 580K service manual. But you will need to find your serial number to determine which series machine you have. The image shows the manual I have.
My gear shift lever is on the console, right side. I have 4x4 selector on the floor by the seat right side and a dipstick through the floor near the backhoe controls. I only see one other dipstick which is engine oil. I believe I have a phase 3, what other fluid levels do I need to check and or change ? What oil and where do I fill for the rear hydraulic dipstick ?