Hi everybody, havent been on the forums for a long time but the 580k on the farm has been acting up. Ill cut straight to the point: my fuel gauge doesnt work so i think i was running out of fuel because the tractor began raceing for no reason so i shut her down. it then didnt want to start up again so i got some fuel in her, bled the lines at the injectors and she started up! after about 10 minutes of work the machine stalls and wont start back up, so i bleed the injectors again and it will start up after a while. it then does the same thing, runs for a while then stalls and wont start back up! ive sinced parked it and again it wont start back up. am i bleeding the system wrong? or is this another problem. any information or experience with this is much appreciated. Sincerely Mike
If you did actually run the tank dry you could have sucked a lot of dirt in the fuel filter. You may also have a pickup screen in the tank that is plugged.
thanks for the input, ill havee a look at the filters tommarow, i just dont understand that the machine runs absolutly fine for a while and then just dies! shouldnt a dirty filter cause a poor running condion? is it at all possible that there is air still somewhere in the system and causing the stalling intermittently? ill try bleeding the system again tommarow and see what that does. is there a specific method for bleeding the fuel system? Thanks P.S. ive read that it can be a bad pump but shouldnt that gradually come on withsome sort of symptome?
Whenever someone has problem you describe, one needs to cover the basics first. First replace the filter and see if that fixes your issue. On many 580K machines, they had an inline filter that fitted directly to the lift pump inlet fitting as well as the spin on filter after the lift pump. That inline filter has a rubber grommet to make a seal that could be failed and letting air in the fuel system. You could also try removing the fuel tank cap and blow compressed air though fuel supply line from tank where the inline filter connects to line to make sure line is clear.
solenoid on pump ?
Could be the fuel cap not venting, after it stalls, loosten the cap and listen for vacuum ,or try running it with the cap loose. Lift pump sucking air.
im heading over to the farm now, so i will try to see if the fuel cap is venting, check the filters and the pump. one thing that ive read somewhere on the internet is when bleeding the system you have to "prime the pump until the lever goes limp" mine never goes limp, thanks for the suggestions and ill get back to you all
When you are priming make sure that the pump actuator isn't on top of the cam lobe, this will hold the pump in stroke so the manual lever won't do any good.
OK, so i got to the tractor today and tried to start it and it didnt even want to smoke out the stack "no surprise", so i checked whether the injector pump "clicked" when the key is turned in the ignition (it does) i re-bled the system... still didnt want to start, so i again re-bled the system and it STILL didnt want to start, i pulled the return line and had a lot of fuel coming back to the tank, i checked the records and the filters where changed only 30 hours ago, so we hooked up a booster to the battery, after about 10 seconds of cranking it FINALLY began to get smoke out the stack, another 10 seconds of cranking and it fired up... left it run for a bout ten minutes and shut her down, thirty minutes later it starts right up. left it run again for about 10 minutes shut it down waited an hour, and started right up. I guess we just didnt do a good job bleeding the system. although we havent put it under a load (work) to see if it stalls again. ive left the farm so for now im going to assume its fixed, when i return in october and the problem persists ill post back up. Thanks to everyone for their input, the manual i got for the machine isnt verry clear and anyones input helps a bunch. Sincerely Mike
i didnt want to get myself in too deep by taking appart the lines and introducing more unecessary air into the system, hopefully the problem will not occur again but if it does i will completely disassemble the lines and blow them out with compressed air. maybe a stupid question but do you have to bleed the system when you change the fuel filters?
the answer to your question is " probably". But I think you probably got it fixed,,, good luck.
There is no stupid question if you learn something from asking. The 580K here in the states used the 4B Cummins engine, I assume the Euro version did as well. Notice the fuel line that goes from the spin on fuel filter base and goes to a fitting mounted to the intake manifold. On that fitting is a 10mm hex bleeder screw. Fit your new filter, open the bleeder screw, operate manual pump lever on lift pump, fill filter with fuel until fuel comes out bleeder screw. Tighten bleeder screw and operate lever on lift pump until it no longer pumps fuel. Engine is now set for operation.
If I recall, there is a check valve in the line somewhere that prevents fuel from draining back to tank, but it's been so long I can't remember where it is located, maybe in the lift pump itself.
yes it does use the cummins engine, the injector pump is from CAV, im not on the farm right now but i know exactly which bleed screw (it was the first thing i bled when working up to the injectors) thanks for that i will keep it in mind. im confused on this one because no matter how long i would operate that lever after closing the lines up it never got "limp"
You might have a hole in the pump diaphram letting fuel bleed back behind it. The resistance you feel is the pump pushing fuel back and forth through the hole.
I called my dad today and he told me that the tractor fired right up in the morning so alls good i guess. The pump was replaced by the previous owner, whether that's true im not sure (it looks new though). either way i need to see if the problem occurs while working like last time, when i get back to the farm we'll be loading manure for spreading so we'll see if it stalls on me again with the same outcome. until then thanks for all the input :thumbsup
So i got back to the farm and did some autumn work clearing some hedges around the fields, and the dang thing stalled!!! couldnt get her lit so we towed it back to the shop, we bought new fuel filters despite the old ones being faily new, blew out all the lines, took the valve out from the bottom of the tank and cleaned that out (there was actually quite a bit of dirt in there) primed it all up, and it started... but then died AGAIN!!! so we went ahead and took the filters back off and found that they were empty!!! sooo we are leaning toward the feed pump as oldsea has recomended if this is true, then our pump IS bad since that prime lever never goes limp no matter how much we work it. hopefully we haven't done too much damage to the injector pump running it dry so many times. does anyone know how much the feed pump approximately sells for? another thing i noticed is that there is NO in line filter between the tank and feed pump which is why i am leaning toward a premature failure of the unit. its too bad because my dad loves the machine when it works but hes going on 75 years now and the only time he can use it is when i come help out on the farm.
Chances are if you found alot of dirt in the tank, there could be some stuck in the check valves built in to the pump. The pump is not serviceable & best replaced, over here, you will get a little bit of change out of $100. Every 580K should have an inlne filter, as ATCO mentioned. Unfortunately when they block up, as the one that was in yours probably did at some time, people throw them out & elliminate them...... they are there for a reason.
absolutely! i don't have a clue why they wouldn't go through the trouble of replacing a $5 fuel filter... $100 is nothing to cry about though, so when we can actually find one we'll get er done.
Just wanted to update everyone on my "issue" we changed the fuel feed pump and lines up to the filter, also got the cold start working (interesting bit with this) installed a new in line pre-filter, bled the lines (pump works as described above "lever becomes limp after pumping" and finally changed the engine oil. turned her over a few time to get the lines bled to the injectors but it wouldn't start off the battery (rotating the starter too slowly) so we took a flame to the intake and she fired right up! have put about 2hrs of hoe work and about 7hrs of hard front end work (grading) and she didnt skip a beat. runs real smooth and didnt once cut out on me, parked her back at the shop and noticed fuel leaking from the diesel shut off solenoid between the plastic "bucket" and metal housing. trying to source a part from ebay now (will post in a new thread). just wanted to thank everyone who bothered to give me direction here on the forum... Sincerely Mike