I decided to fix all the hydraulic leaks on the backhoe. The first one was a "learning experience" but I got it completed and worked my way through the rest of them. Along the way I bought a gland wrench and some large box wrenches. I was feeling pretty good about things until I got to the last cylinder. It's the stabilizer (largest diameter on the machine). Immediately I noticed the pin holding the rod would not budge. I removed both snap rings and tried numerous hammers. It won't move at all. This is the pin holding the hydraulic rod. I've spent days covering it with PB blaster and another oil I read about (I forgot he name but it's super thin and red). Still couldn't get this pin out. I was about read to grind the head off the pin to see if I could remove it. I stopped and just released the hydraulic cylinder on the opposite end where it attaches to the backhoe frame. I know that's not the best solution but "in theory" it should allow me to release the cylinder to replace the seals. This is where the REAL TROUBLE BEGIN! I've tried everything to remove the gland nut. I used an impact wrench with the gland wrench. Didn't work. I bought a 36" pipe wrench and put a 5' cheater on it. Didn't work. I applied more solvent and PB blaster and let it sit for days. I tried heating the cylinder (only had a plumbers torch with MAP gas). I tried hitting around the area with a sledge. I tried using a chisel in the gland holes. Nothing has worked. I finally put a piece of 10" metal conduit on the 36" pipe wrench. Still did not work. I'm out of ideas and I've about resolved myself to the fact I'm going to have to ruin the gland nut to get it out of there. I was going to try cutting it with a hacksaw (starting at the face and cutting through the 1/8" (or so) of metal) thinking if I removed about half of the face of that nut then It might release it. Has anyone ever tried this? I haven't done it yet because I got thinking; the treads are not in the area I'd be cutting away so it might not accomplish a thing by cutting it. Is there something I've missed? Any other suggestions? Can you remove the gland nut by cutting it?
To get this end off took me hrs. I ended up adding another 12' pipe over the one in the pic.
Gland nut wrench with the 3/4 drive saved me a lot of time. Now if you need some cheap heat, a weed burner torch really pours it on fast. Is there a screw on the parting line between the gland nut and the tube? On all of my 580 ones there is something like a #8 machine screw. Clean out the holes for the gland nut, heat the end of the bore up to somewhere around 200F, apply gland nut with a 4' bar on the breaker bar and it should ease right off. Its possible someone reefed it on instead of just snugging it and using the screw to lock it. You might be able to carefully hammer the face of the nut to try and jar it loose.
Do a search on peening cylinders on this site. Method Seems to have worked for several people.
HeavyEquipmentForums Try this before you mess it up too much. If you don't have a gland wrench like bilrog's, you can cut something out of heavy plate to get leverage on the gland.
I've put a 3/4 drive on it, in addition to trying the impact wrench. The 3/4 drive had about a 18" handle and I pushed down on it as hard as I could. Nothing moved. I then slid a 6' cheater pipe over the 3/4 drive and put my entire body weight on it. I was "bouncing" on it trying to get it to break loose. Eventually, the gland wrench came loose and I hit the ground hard. I was hoping the neighbors weren't watching. I put the 3/4 drive back into place and put the 10' electrical conduit on it. That pipe alone probably weights close to 70 pounds. I got clear on the end of that pipe and again tried "bouncing on it. It did not break loose. Oh, there is no machine screw in this one. A couple of the others had the screw present but not this cylinder. I cleaned the holes out real well to get the wrench in as deep as possible. I've also tried to hammer the face of the nut and that hasn't worked. I've used a chisel (on the right angle) to try and get it to move just a little. It doesn't move. I'm going to post pictures that may show the challenge I'm up against. I appreciate everyones comments.
That looks just like the gland wrench I bought. I've put several pipes over it to extend it. Still no-go.
I tried peening it a couple of times but because I couldn't get that pin out of the top of that cylinder, I couldn't peen the full diameter. I was able to do about 75% of it. I'm going now to try and get all around it. Wish me luck. It would sure be easier IF I COULD GET THAT PIN OUT OF THERE. I'm going to post some pictures so you can see if anything looks out of normal.
Here's some pictures. The first 3 are the pin that I cannot get removed. I've hit it with various sized hammers and it doesn't move at all. I only took a picture from one side. I could take more if it was helpful. The other 2 pictures are the gland nut. You can see the "notch" in the top of the nut where I placed a chisel and tried to push the nut to release it. It just dug into the gland nut and it didn't turn at all. You'll also notice the marks on the pins. I tried to rotate it with the 36" pipe wrench to loosen it. I could not get it to turn.
i had no screw too but found the hole the screw top sheared off leaving the rest inside i drilled it out and she screwed right off sawzall and or grinder the pin you got three spots to chop it get many blades . pin inside take a beating or got bent and gets scored to point , locks in the groove hey are you hammering the wrong end the other end gets hammered in to push it out you dont need to hit on the side you got posted ?? the end with the clip or lock pin just a silly question
At this point you gotta get the pin out so you can bring the cylinder to a hyd shop your probably going to need an acetylene torch to heat it with and blow some holes in the pin the long ways you if there is a gap you might put a thin cutoff disk on a 7 inch grinder or skill saw to slit the pin then maybe you will be able to drive the remaining chunks out it should make them move a lot easier Also your pin end looks mushroomed on the end grind it off before you try to drive it though or it will really be stuck I suppose you could take a drill to the pin also and see how hard it is the way the pipe wrench bit it maybe not to bad sometimes drilling a hole though will relieve enough pressure wont be easy though
hey if heat it up make sure the oil is out it will never get hot enuff with hand torch the oil acts as coolant are you hammering it out from the other end / is see the mushroom the other end with the clip or lock pin removed
If the end of that cylinder is hammered up from rocks over the years put a thin blade in an angle grinder and cut 1/16" grove all the way around between the tube and the cap I forgot that I had to do that on one of mine once. If that pin has a grove wore in it getting it out may take plenty of effort. I did have to burn one out on a 580B after 3 days of struggling. If your really going to pound on it maybe weld a nut or something in the center to beat on.
Yair . . . Look fellers that peening deal DOES WORK you have to keep at it and, unlike some have mentioned, I actually use the ball face of the hammer (say a two pounder) many times lightly is the go and work consistently up and down . . . even mark out the pattern with a texta, takes time but is cheaper than new bits. What you are actually doing is stretching the metal and increasing the diameter of the tube. Cheers.
Totally agree Scrub. But there are some cases, and you may be dealing with such a case, that is, dissimilar metals. Aluminum head in a steel barrel, moisture gets in there, oxidation does its deed, result, God's Locktite. I recently ran across a cylinder in such a condition, fought with it with all my tricks, ended up sending it to my local Cat dealer, even they had a 15 round knock down drag out with all their fancy cylinder benches to bust that gland loose. As for the pin that attaches the rod to the stabilizer, only one thing will get that pin out, a big torch with a rosebud head. I've ran across that very thing before, takes a lot of heat to get that pin to move.
A few ideas to get that pin out if that's the way you want to go. Hydraulic press. Oxygen piercing lance/ thermic lance? Grind the mushroom off the end, use another pin slightly smaller in diameter, hit it with all you have on a sledge hammer. When that fails, drill the center of that pin to the depth of the ears that are stuck, the cylinder is loose on the pin right, just stuck on the outside tabs. At least half inch diameter, bigger is better, then weld up the hole as fast and hot as you can . That will hopefully expand and deform the pin, shrinking it as it cools. OR drill the hole all the way through the pin, and wash a little more out of the hole with a cutting torch, doing the same thing as welding.
Yair . . . Willie59 That dissimilar metal thing is a real bummer but I have seen that peening work even there . . . we once had to refurbish a palfinger or similar truck crane that had been mounted on a saltwater barge and we got them all apart. Cheers.
A note on "bouncing" Most people can lift more than their weight. I try to lift rather than push down. When the wrench slips, I straighten up and get a cold drink if the neighbors are watching. :drinkup
I'll check the gland again for a sheared off screw. I looked pretty good and didn't find one. I guess it could be down towards the bottom as that area is harder for me to see with the pin in place. I'll now concentrate on getting that pin out. I'll work to remove it with some cut off blades and a grinder. I did try to remove it from the opposite side of the pictures. I took the picture side to show the pin sticking out further than the leg and to show the pipe wrench marks. There were snap rings on both sides of that pin. That made me think the pin was originally designed to insert/remove from either direction. Thanks for your help.
I'm going to work to get that pin out. I think I'll use the cutoff on the inside of the leg bracket. If I remove the hydraulic cylinder, and cut the pin on the inside of leg brackets, I hope to push the pins outward with a chisel or punch. I appreciate the comments and help.
The oil is out of he cylinder. I did hammer from the other end. It didn't budge either direction. Both sides of the pin are mushroomed a little from me hitting it. I figured if I got the pin to move at all, I'd grind those high points off and push the pin out. Thanks for your help and comments.
The end of the cylinder is in pretty good shape. I can move it back and forth between the leg on that end. I have a space of about 3/8" that I can move the cylinder and access the inside of the leg. I'm going to try getting a cute off blade in there and getting that cylinder out of the way. I'll then work to punch the remainder of the pin outwards. Thanks for your comments and help.
I'm going to give that peening process more effort. I need to get the pin removed first so I have access to the full diameter of the cylinder. I'll update as I proceed. Thanks for your comment and help.
I'm not sure I could lift much more than the downward force. I'm 200#'s but the 10" electrical conduit I was using for a cheater probably weighed around 70#. I would have been wise to follow your instructions though as I wouldn't have ended up on the ground. Thanks for your comments and help.
I've freed smaller pins like that one by taking my big air hammer with a flat faced bit and hammering the ever living ***** out of the end in every direction I can get at it. If you're lucky it'll break the rust loose inside and and you can get it out. I've also welded bars on the end so you can try to twist the pin while you're hammering also. If that fails, I get out the Broco torch and pop a hole through it. They usually can be push out with a finger after that, only at the cost of you taking a molten slag bath. Greyson
I had a bucket pin that had been stuck fast for decades, I did use the big honkin propane weed burner, heated up the ears and all on the bucket. If you hit it with a 16# sledge it'd ring like a bell, I heated it for maybe 5 minutes with the big propane fire and then a rap with an 8# sledge left a cloud of rust dust in the air and the hit was a dull thud, ground off the flare and in a few raps, the pin came right out. I had used the oxy torch before but the weed burner has a ton more heat. Maybe a rosebud would compete. A quick check shows a rosebud at 150,000 btu and and a weed burner at 500,000 btu, now this doesn't seem quite right, I'd be willing to get with a warm propane tank you could get 250,000 without trouble, some of the older opd valves would shut down at high flow rates but with the new big grilles and such, the flow rate has been increased. 500,000 would likely need a 100lb tank or 2 smaller ones at least.
BTU's are misleading. A rosebud could heat the pin enough to melt it. A weed burner you'd be there for a long time get it that hot. You'd also heat everything around the pin just as hot which has a negative effect. Oxy/acetylene flame is up to about 6300F degs. Air/propane flame about 3500F but a weed burner doesn't have a concentrated flame. A rosebud uses several concentrated flames to heat a larger area but is still a relatively small area. Weed burners are great for heating entire assemblies. Rosebuds are better for heating something like a pin. Welding on a pin could work really good too, the same as it works for removing broken bolts.
I had the very same problem on my Deere 3 years ago. I cut the pin off with a 14" chop saw by placing the blade between the rod end and the pad ears. I kept the garden hose on drenching the pin down as I was cutting to keep things cool so the blade didn't glaze over. Took about a 1/2 hr per side. With the rod out of the way I was then able to burn out the two ends of the pin with an acetylene cutting torch.
Couldn't you remove the hoses from the cylinder and remove the pin on the barrel end ? Then flip the cylinder over and give the it good peening on the part you can't get at now. I would think you could anchor the barrel in that position and remove the gland nut. A little more work but you wouldn't have to remove the rod pin.
My solution was similar I wanted to update my original post in case someone else refers to it in the future. I tried EVERYTHING to get his nut removed. Including peening it with a hammer, surrounding it in dry ice for a day and multiple attempts with power tools. None of them broke this nut free. I finally took a 8" cutting blade on my grinder and cut the pin in order to free the hydraulic cylinder. I'd already ordered a replacement pin. After I removed the cylinder, I took it to a local hydraulic shop. I explained the problem to him. He told he he'd removed hundreds to them and was confident he could get it free. The downside was; he was swamped in work and told me it would take up to 3 weeks to get it done. I had no other option so I left it. To my surprise, he called the following morning and told me it was done. He told me it was one of the most stubborn he'd encountered but he'd completed it. He told me he had a special vise for them and used a punch. I paid the minimum shop fee of around $100 and brought it home and replaced the seals. I should of done this 3 weeks earlier. Probably the best $100 I've ever spent. Thanks to all those who offered their suggestions and help.
Don't know if you got this thing out or not but I had a similar issue and got it to free up with a Pipe wrench and hammer. might need someone to hold the pipe wrench in place while you hit the end of with a sledge , 12 or 16 lb is best , the sudden impact with the sledge will make it give , would also heat it up evenly with a torch before hitting it. post your progress . as to your other issue with the pin , if there is room to cut on each side of the cylinder insert, cut it on each side , this will give you space enough to work from the inside out , again heat the hell out of the metal surrounding what is left of the pin, get it cherry red and it will come out for you hope it works . good luck
Hi Guys, Noobie here. I know this posting is old, but still very helpful. I did my seals on an old 580 Super E. I read thru this thread and tried it all. I finally ended up with a similar method of Bertrrr's except I welded a plate on and then whacked it with a sledge a few times and it finally broke loose. A little rough, but it cleans up nicely. See below
Hello Lawrence, Thanks for passing on your solution, great explanation and pictures.
Where was your lock screw hole?
The lock screw hole is 50% shared with the gland nut and the cylinder. You can see the half moons on each part in the first image. The Case manual suggest that a new gland nut (if/when you need one) does not have threads. This is because we (you and I) own the location of that lock screw. So, you would install the new gland nut until tight, then drill and tap a new thread to keep it from turning. INMHO, I would rather tack weld it in place so I could grind off a little bump to remove the gland nut and not have to worry about a broken lock screw. BTW, one of my (6) cylinders returned to their original locking screw position after adding new seals. This told me that they were installed/replaced way too tight before the lock screw holes were drilled.
Well that is a pickle! I've done six three had lock screws and three were overtight, backed them off about 1/8th turn to get the screw hole to align and all seemed happy. Even a smidge loose is sealed but it might wobble on the threads so I'm good with just nicely seated. Maybe yours were put on by Sven during his first day at work. Guutndtight. I personally wouldn't tack weld it, my screws are just short not overly jammed in place machine screws, the ones that were present got a rap on the head with a ball peen hammer and backed out without any real force at all. Even re used with a nice dab of copper anti sieze.
This method works! Have used it many times when I was in a field service truck. When done just cut the welds and grind gland smooth. Keep the special tool for the next one.
I just did a bunch of cylinders on my 580k and the peening method was the only way I could get the gland nuts off. I used a spanner wrench on both sets of holes outer rim and face of the gland nut with heat to no avail. I finally read about the peening method, tried it thinking it was bs and what do you know it worked perfect! Now as far as the piston bolt thats a whole different ball of wax. Still working to get one of them out. I've used heat breaker bars impact gun still no go.
Hit the bolt-head several times minimum with a two pound or bigger hammer. It will unscrew then.
I've said this many times, but you will need to heat the retaining bolt with till almost a dull red to make the Loctite release it's hold. Use 1" drive sockets & a good quality breaker bar & at least 6' cheater pipe. It goes without saying, you need something solid to hold the rod while undoing the bolt.
Exactly what alrman said with heating that bolt head. I fought with the dipper for hours and beat the heck out of it with a 1in impact with nothing. Right after I heated it with the rose bud it blasted right off like nothing.
I had a stabilizer cylinder I could no get apart and pin was stuck. I used my Stihl 14" gas cutoff saw and cut pin on both side of the cylinder eye and remover pieces after it was out. I took cylinder and packing kit to Hyd. Shop and they worked it over
The new pin I got from Case has a grease fitting in the end of it! It was the pin on the pad end
Mine are both seized on the pad ends. I just took the top pin out and repacked the cylinders with the rod still on the pad. Was pretty easy.
Update.... I heated bolt with icy acetylene torch until red used a breaker bar and it finally let loose then the rest of the way with 1/2 inch impact gun . Now I’m cutting out the pin at the pad to get the shaft off