Case 580 SE starts from cold every time, even after sitting for a week. After running for any length of time and shut off, it will immediately start back up. If it sits for say 10 minutes or more it will not start. It turns over fine, has a new battery.
When it's warm & not starting, try loosening the 10mm bleeder screw at the fuel filter banjo fitting. If it has some residual pressure when you open the bleeder, close the bleeder & try to start the engine after that. Let us know if that allows it to start.
Thanks for the reply. Interestingly, after I posted, I cracked open the drain on the bottom of the secondary filter and it had pressure. It started right up. Ran it for a bit, cut it off and it would not start back. Opened and closed the drain again and it started.
Thought it might I've seen this a few times now. You will need to replace the fuel shut off solenoid in the injector pump. For some reason, the solenoids must get tired & refuse to pull the plunger to open up the fuel supply to the pump - at least while that little bit of pressure is present in the fuel system. Fit a new shut off solenoid & should work normally again.
Thank you ALRMAN.
Revisiting this issue. I have replaced the shut off solenoid , twice. This machine had a new battery in it so I didn’t realize the alternator wasn’t charging at first. Had the alternator rebuilt, which also fixed the hour meter. Still no tach btw. Still having the no start issue. Just like before, starts first time and runs fine. Will not start back unless I open the bleeder.
You've got to have good current and voltage at the solenoid for it to work right. I have a JD backhoe that had the same problem. Would not restart hot after sitting a short time. Ended up being a bad connection on the hot wire going to the solenoid. I reworked that connection and it hasn't happened again.
Bummer! When you replaced the shut off solenoid - you fitted the new plunger & spring? Not use the old ones?
JL Sargent, I had a volt meter hooked to the stud on the solenoid. I have 12 volts with the key on and about 9.5 volts when the starter engages.
Alrman, yes, new plunger and spring. The seller sent me a second solenoid. Same thing.
I'm curious if you could rig a second battery just to the solenoid - so it had a full 12V supply while cranking & if it makes any difference? edit - (just as a test procedure)
Just remember to remove the connection when you want to shut the tractor down.
I have been thinking I would run a ground to the case of the solenoid and maybe use a radiator clamp to hold that and disconnect the hot wire and run a wire directly to the battery positive. I would do this after I had done the initial start and warm up. I will update the post when I have done this. Thanks
check return line and fitting from inj. pump to tank if not flowing will build pressure and won't run
What would be the best way of checking that?
The blocked return line fitting scenario is not applicable to the CAV injector pump on the 580SE cummins engine - only the Roosamaster pumps of the earlier Case 207/188 engines.
Ok, thanks.
Edit:: ALL RoosaMaster/Stanadyne pumps that have a check ball return connector.. Case, JD, Continental.. on & on..
Update: I connected the shut off solenoid directly to the battery (positive and negative) and same issue after initial start up. I cleaned the relay connections and swapped them around, as they are the same, and still no start ( which was no surprise) . It would sometimes start back up 2 or 3 times, but there was not anything I could say was consistent with why it would start. Today, just to eliminate everything I can think of, I took the return line (very small metal line on top of injector pump) loose and where it transitions to rubber and blew it out. Fuel immediately came out of the rubber hose that goes back to the tank before I clamped it off, so no restriction there. Didn’t make any difference. The day I went and looked at this machine, we started and stopped it several times. Same thing the day I had it picked up and when I got it unloaded and parked, went to start it back up and that’s when this all started.
I am trying to remember but do not know if this could be related, many years ago I had a problem with an E that the fitting at the injection pump mounting flange failed, I believe it is a restrictor fitting and loose parts were blocking the flow, a new fittin resolved my issue, something to look at.
Would yours start initially, or no start at all?
Did this intermittent no-start problem ever get resolved? I’m just curious what the root cause turned out to be.
No, never did figure out what the cause was. I would guess at this point there’s something going on in the injection pump. It runs too good to mess with the pump, so I ran a cable to the shutoff lever. I turn the key off while pulling the shutoff. I don’t have a picture of the connection I made at the pump, but I could get one if you want to see it.
I forgot to mention I took the plunger out of the shutoff solenoid and put it back in. Now I use the cable to shut it off and it restarts every time.
Sounds like you still have a weak pump.
Weak pump?
Please post a picture of the connection.
Will do. It will be a few days before I’m back where the machine is though.
"I forgot to mention I took the plunger out of the shutoff solenoid and put it back in." I guess you meant to say 'and NEVER put it back in' right ? That pull knob is great ! Were you able to find one with the printing on it just like that ?
Sorry, meant weak solenoid.
No problem. I did try a new one and actually got that one replaced by the seller and still had the issue.
Or he meant to say "put the solenoid back in", which confirms Alrman's thoughts exactly. Did you every use a separate battery to power the solenoid while trying to restart it?
The battery in the machine is new. I ran a hot and ground directly to the battery and it still wouldn’t start. That picture of the pull knob is my machine. TSC has them in the store. I think the cable is 72”.
Yes, that's what you wrote earlier, but a separate battery would eliminate the starter draw, and insure the solenoid saw 12V.
There’s always going to be some voltage drop during start up. Although it would be a good test, even if it did start with a separate battery, I’m not going to add a $150-200 battery when I can do what I need with a $18 cable. BTW the voltage drop was less than 3 volts, as I wrote earlier.
A loss of 3 volts from starter is pretty bad.
I found a pin that fit the lever and it has a shoulder and threaded section. I drilled it and used a cotter pin to hold it in the lever and allow it to pivot. I drilled the threaded section and slid the cable in and tightened it. I put some loctite on the threads.
It sounds like you're happy with your cable shut-off solution and probably don't want to fuss with this anymore . I also have a SE and have been frustrated with these sort of problems. Re-reading through the post, the thing that was missing (to me) was a 100% confirmation that 12v was at the pump's solenoid EVERY time it failed to start. Were you sure intermittent voltage failure could be eliminated as a root cause? If I was doing more diagnosis, I'd put a small visible test light on the solenoid end terminal and clip the light's other lead to ground. I'd like to be 110% sure that each time I hit the 1st position on the key switch, the test light comes on and stays on. (That little fuel solenoid takes very little current.) Then, when the key is moved to 'start', the light should stay on . Unless I saw the test light on every time the key was in RUN or START, I couldn't be assured that I had the voltage conditions to open the fuel solenoid and provide fuel flow for starting. Once that was verified, I'd look into other things (solenoid, pressure etc) .
I wired the solenoid directly to the battery. I used a radiator clamp around the case of the solenoid and clamped the wire for ground. I still had the issue. By doing this, I eliminated the switch and harness. I just got to the point of wanting to be able to start and stop when I needed to. Your method would be a good way of testing also.
I’m having this exact problem now and I’ll try and post what is happening when I fix it. I’ve already measured voltage at the shut off solenoid and replaced the solenoid. Still the same problem. I might go with the manual shut off if I need to but wouldn’t be satisfied. I can’t understand why it starts so nice when cold.
Hi Old stuff, just wondering if you figured this out. I’m having the same problem. I measured voltage and replaced solenoid. Even disconnected solenoid from harness and ran a wire from 12.4 volt battery. There’s fuel pressure on the fuel solenoid and won’t allow it to open until it bleeds off on its own or I crack open the fuel filter drain valve. I’m thinking the injector pump is producing pressure where it shouldn’t. It starts and runs too good when it cools down a bit. I’m okay with it and don’t use it enough to warrant replacing the pump. But I’m wondering if it’s the beginning of a worse problem.
Seeing u have a “spare” solenoid.. take the guts out and screw it back in.. if it’s a solenoid problem, it won’t shut off..(because you have the solenoid inactive) “YOU” can shut it off by using the manual lever..
I can do that easy enough. I’m just too curious as to why.
Aren’t u troubleshooting a shutdown issue.?? (I haven’t re-read all 3 pages.) If so, you’re bypassing the electrical side of things with a dummy solenoid. If it still shuts off with the dummy solenoid, u can look somewhere other than the electric side of things.. More likely a restriction from the tank, filters TO the pump.??