I have a 1985 case 580se backhoe that is sluggish in fwd, rev works ok till fluid gets warm then almost no travel. I am planning on rebuilding the shuttle. the question I have is about the torque converter. I would rather not replace it if not necessary so is there any way to separately test the torque converter? I understand doing a stall test is the correct way to test the converter but if the shuttle is slipping wouldn't that give an inaccurate gauge on the condition of the converter? id hate to replace it just because as it doubles the cost of the rebuild. any input? -thanks
I replace the convertor on each shuttle rebuild I do, if the owner wants a warranty. If there is trash in them, you will never really flush it completely out. I have them reconditioned at a specialist convertor repair shop. Many forward drive issues are caused by the sprag in the convertor failing & not allowing enough slip to occur under load. This is what burns out the forward clutch pack. The fact that reverse is losing drive on yours, is a little unusual. It is possible the charge pump may have some issues. I will always carry out a stall test before removing a shuttle, & compare forward to reverse. Be sure to engage drive a number of times during the test - particularly in reverse - as a bad convertor may test fine with one application & on the next, it will pull down the engine revs well below spec.
If your going to repair your shuttle then you need to replace everything in it, including your torque converter and be sure and clean out the cooler. You'll be money ahead, BTW some of the converters have drain plugs in them that makes it easier when pulling the shuttle not as much oil making a mess.
I've replaced a converter and pump on a 580se because it wouldn't spin the wheels in 1st up against something but never dealt with a shuttle. Took me 4.5 hrs. because I didn't know what I was doing but it worked well for a few more years until I upgraded. There was no drain on the T converter and no one around here to rebuild them but it wasn't overly expensive.
interesting, Billrog- how did you determine that the problem was in the pump or converter and not the forward clutch discs separating or worn?
I surmised that if it were the discs it would have been more gradual. It happened While on a job no pushing power all of a sudden. I phone a Case dealer and they suggested if it doesn't spin the wheels in first up against something probably the converter. It was winter and I wanted to get back to work Mon. so I rented their shop for the day ( Sunday) and pulled it out . They suggested replacing the pump while it was apart for another $180 so I did. I've never had a disc problem with any hoe so I can't give any advice others here know a lot more than I do.
anyone have experience aligning torque converter on flexplate without without using alignment tool? or if the tool is necessary an aftermarket source?
I doubt you'll find the thing anywhere, and you can use calipers and such to measure things and get it pretty close on there, then a dial gauge to get it in spec once it's on the flywheel. I couldn't find that tool when I replaced the one in my 580C, and even asked at the local Case dealer where I was told, and I quote, "it doesn't matter". Well that don't really fly with me, let alone something that says in the manual that it MUST be aligned to no more than +/- .004", so I just measured things up, designed it and had one made up. The bigger pain I found, was getting the thing aligned to spec once it was on the flywheel, as every turn of a bolt would jack things all up. You'll be able to take out a bit of any offset you create from putting the flexplate on the TC with or without the actual alignment tool when aligning it on the flywheel.
When I replaced mine I used a dial indicator to get it within .4000 until just reading this I had no idea there was actually a tool.
I am just finishing rebuilding the shuttle now and everything was going together well until I bolted the front cover on with the 4 ferry head screws, as I torqued them down to spec and compressed the springs the input shaft and tailshaft became hard to turn. I can still turn the yoke by hand but not freely anyone experience this?
Hmmm..... The black fibre thrust washer that goes between the forward drum & reverse piston carrier / front cover, there are two in most kits a thick & a thin, did you put the same size back as came out during rebuild? If you used the thick one, maybe try the thin.
thanks alrman, I was thinking about that as well when going together as the manual didn't say anything about thickness. so I used the thicker of the two which is what I removed but will try the thinner one and see if it frees up any
is there a way to make sure the t convertr is all the way in suttle pump
If you have all of the correct parts and they go together with minimal fuss (you may need to spin the engine over via the flywheel or crank pulley bolt a little to get the TC and Charge Pump splines lined up) then it should be in there, as far as looking up in there anywhere to check, no. I did a new TC and charge pump when I had mine all apart, so l'd be pretty sure it was all good once it was back together.
thanks I am making brackets to holdshuttle on my car transmission jack stand my old tc tabs and pump were worn like tc wasn't all the way in but I don't see any adjustment engine end play ok I have had it for year s 19 95 I think do you yourself put shuttle in separate from bellhousing shep
You'll want to do the Shuttle alone so you're no fighting the weight of that bell housing, plus it has the 2 engine/shuttle mounts on it. I put the bell housing in the frame first, with it's 2 mounts loose a little loose. Then I put the engine in, bolted it to the bell housing and tightened all 3 of the motor mounts up. Then I installed the Shuttle. You could put the bell housing on the engine first and drop those all in as one, but I was doing the job alone and the less weight I had on the hoist the safer. The end of my TC was a little chewed up as well, why I just decided to replace it and the charge pump while I had it all apart.
I also have new tc had new rebuid kit installed your information has been a big help thanks
Welcome.
@woodburner Most times when you see worn drive tangs on a torque converter, the converter has usually a bad sprag, causing excessive load on the transmission drivetrain. So, it is a good thing you replaced it.
thanks
Books and tools sound cool. The alignment pin was broke off the front of our converter. Chucked the pump hub in a lath and machined the front to 1/2 inch fine thread. Welded the pin to the head of a 1/2 bolt and cut that down to size. Drilled and threaded converter for a drain plug. Flushed out and installed pin with lock tight. Snugged flex plate to converter bolts. Centered pump hub using a dial indicator and tightened bolts. It slide right in the transmission while turning the engine by hand.
got it in today works like a charm thanks for the info, shuttle is a heavy old dog ha suppost to snow 8 to 10 inches tomorrow
I doubt the torque converter is at fault as it worked up until it finally slowed down in typical fashion when the clutches go. When pulled apart, lots of chunks and worn out pieces in the forward pack including the spring. Stuff I found on the internet all pointed to the clutch packs and this is what it very much looked like.
all friends.....today while working, the backhoe 580E,i push the soil forward is not strong anymore, when i open the powershuttle oil cap, it sounds pesssss....like there is air pressure in it...can anyone answer this
Is the oil level up to full mark while engine is running?
when the engine is on, the oil is pointing at the end of the gauge, but when the engine is off, the level is quite at the marker level
Supposed to be in 4th gear, forward and reverse lever in neutral and engine running, when shuttle level is checked. Make sure emergency brake is on and or up again something that won’t move, in case something happens.
I always check them running , 4th gear, brakes locked if no brakes then stabilizers down so it can't move, at idle in fwd shuttle, that way the gear train is stopped, no internal parts rotating and there is no gears splash.
If oil level is low on stick with engine running then add hydraulic fluid to shuttle, don't overfill.
Replace that thing. Tangs are bead up, it means that it is worn out on the inside, plus seal grove looks worn out also, she’ll leak out of seal, if not right away then later.
Hello..... Hope you all can help me, the 580e case runs forward while pushing the ground, the engine is strong, but when it goes back without load, the engine is weak, there is no power at all, then the shuttle oil will come out through the breather hole, until it runs out... then the engine can no longer move... Is this a problem with the trouqe converter?
It sounds like the forward clutch is locked engaged and when you put it in reverse it has both clutch’s engaged.
Should I lower the power shuttle back down to open it up and check again... the same problem still occurs... forward is strong, reverse is weak, and oil is still coming out through the breather hole, this is like before I opened it up for service... I have installed all the new kits, do you have any other suggestions?one part is broken, i replace all new
Open it up again and make sure separator plates are aligned correctly for reverse clutch. Also check the end seals on the end of input shaft.
Thanks suggestions, i will open again n try fix it again, hope everything fine.... Thankqvm... Whatever i will update