Supposedly crapped out and took a small trip down driveway into tree and fence. Here it sits. Supposedly fired up and ran a minute then quit again. Does crank, won't turn over. No fuel that we can see coming out lines. Got fuel in the tank. Really don't know any history on it. Mechanical fuel pump correct? If so, we should be able to try external fuel pump right?
At the angle the machine is sitting is there enough fuel in it to cover the fuel outlet in the tank ?? If there is you could start by checking to see if you have a plugged strainer (#1) in the fuel tank or a plugged check valve (#9) in the fuel line. It doesn't appear to have a lift pump. If they are clear blow out the fuel lines by applying a small amount air through the fuel tank filler cap. If you have a good flow of fuel, hook up a container of clean fuel directly to the injection pump. What caused the machine to end up in the position it is in ? Here is a link to the online parts book http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr67900ar319688
Ended up there, from what I understand, because the operator was a little inexperienced and ran out of fuel. So when it quit and started rolling he panicked and bailed. Just on the other side of where it ended up is a very busy two lane through the canyon. Thank god the hoe ended up stuck in the dirt and he managed to put the bucket all the way down before he bailed. This is just what I've been told and was asked to try and get it out. People are amazing... Even some of the amazing ones have no business on heavy equipment. We did run an external pump on it today and got it fired up, down off that steep incline, but then it quit again. Think it's just the battery this time. Getting new one tomorrow and crossing fingers. Still will have some maintenance to do on it seeing as it 'came with the property' they just bought and no one knows history on it. Certain I will be on here again for some help. Thanks for the link and your help.
Got it fired up and ran really good for about 15 minutes. Then it quit again. Added some water because it was low and it does not want to start. Smokes a lot while trying to turn over. Got 2 brand new batteries and it cranks and almost starts. Could it possibly be the water we added has seeped somewhere else (don't want to think head gasket) but maybe that's the smoke? Maybe that was the problem from the start and water doesn't compress. Did filters, drained lines and it's got good fuel. Going to try again tomorrow and see what happens.
Was the engine idling or at a a higher rpm when it died ? Disconnect either end of the fuel line that is between the secondary filter and the filter that is on the IP, determine if you have a good flow of fuel going into the injector pump. Is the glass filter and screen on the injection pump clean ? There is a primer on the injection pump. Push it up and down a few times. Is the cable that shuts off the injector pump, putting it fully into the run position ? How often do you add water to it ? That could be something as simple as a radiator cap leaking or some other leak like a hose.
It was idling when it died. There is good fuel flow - did see filter had some crap in it so cleaned that out. The cable I believe is working also. Not sure how often water has to be added - new machine to us and don't really know much history. Going to go try to fire it up again and see what happens. Thanks so much.
Thinking here could be a large part of the problem... Starter was sounding funny so took it apart and that's the inside where it had been rubbing. Fix that right up and hopefully it will fire right up.
The starter maybe weak but it did not make the engine shut off. If tinkers diagram is correct for your engine then there should be an external fuel shut off . It must activate and stay so to start. It sounds like it just has air in. That will cause the white smoke. The injector lines should be loosened and engine cranked until fuel bounces out at all injectors . Tighten injectors and it should make some white smoke and then hit. The mechanical pump should eventually be replaced in my opinion. Aftermarket electric fuel pumps don't increase flow as engine rpm and load incrase.
Trace the fuel line from the tank and look for the lift pump if it has one (it should). The original lift pumps have a plunger in them that makes a rattling sound when you turn the ignition key to the run position. The OEM pump will look like this ----> http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr67900ar664060bi2208454
Second the external fuel shutoff. The other suspicion those problems bring up is some random trash floating around in the tank and blocking the outlet, then floating away when the engine dies. I just can't see a fuel pump killing an engine at idle WITHOUT something else plugged up.
The lift pump has a screen in it.
Doesn't that particular motor list 'with electrical lift pump' and 'without electrical lift pump'? I traced line from tank and there is no electric pump. It goes through 2 filters and then right to the thing on the side of injector pump with a primer on it. Is that the mechanical fuel pump? The starter was just drawing the batteries down to nothing on brand new batteries and wouldn't turn it over so that's different issue I would imagine from what ya all are sayin.
You are correct that the parts book says may or may not have a lift pump. Yours evidently doesn't. That is why that check valve in the line must be in good working condition. Otherwise gravity will be your worst enemy as far as keeping fuel in the system up to the IP. If that were my tractor I would install a lift pump. Partsandservice is giving you good advice about air in the injector lines. Crack all four injector nuts one at a time and be sure a solid stream of fuel is coming out of them. Post back and let us know what you find. Delmer; I guess the screen in the lift pump is meaningless on this tractor.
Got parts for starter today and rebuilding that this morning. Will do the 4 injector nuts today and let you know how it turns out. Thanks all.
Ok, got starter rebuilt, back together and in. Cracked the injector nuts one at a time and got solid stream of fuel. Turned over way better and wants to start. But then it's back to letting the batteries charge back up because it just doesn't seem to have the juice to do it. I have a video I could somehow post on photobucket or something, where you could hear what it's doing. What are the cold cranking amps supposed to be for the batteries on these things? I think they got reman batteries, maybe they aren't worth a flip already. I don't know... Let me see if I can post a vid and put a link.
Ok couldnt get the vid to work. At the tractor again now and still the same thing. Tried everything you all have suggested and still all it wants to do is just drag batteries down. It ran really good when it ran so its just baffling. Will try cracking lines again. This is crazy.
Just to add, got 3 batteries, two chargers and a car hooked to it and just doesnt turn over fast enough to start it seems. Gotta be something else...
Pull the air cleaner element and have somebody spray diesel fuel into the intake pipe with a small pump sprayer while you crank the engine. Don't hose it in there, if you get too much the engine will run away; couple of teaspoons should be enough to get it started. If it runs while you're giving it shots of fuel in the intake, you have a fuel supply problem and it's not something like low compression. Then you get to break open the fuel lines and crank the engine and see if fuel is coming out of the fuel line screwed into the injection pump for example. You have to verify where the fuel is getting to or not. By the way, cranks and turns over are the same thing. As in 'the engine cranks but won't start'. Drives me nuts when somebody confuses cranking function and starting. I used to pull wrenches for a living and the customers would do that all the time. Had to stop them and get the correct story as to what's happening. Big difference where you start to diagnose.....
Second that, and also, "fire" produces smoke, as in "the engine fired once, but wouldn't run". Of course if you're in a truckstop and wearing the appropriate footwear, then the distinctions cease. One good battery should be plenty to start this engine up. Since you know the starter had problems maybe that is still weak? How cold is it there? even down to 40 it should fire up if it will turn over fast enough that the starter doesn't slow down significantly on each compression stroke. With a slew of power sources like you have, is your starter warming up after 2 crankings of 15 seconds each? And do the batteries drain down faster than they should with those 2 15 second crankings? How about any battery cable terminals heating up? Others here have suggested a Nippon Denso gear reduction starter as an improvement, that looks like a conventional starter from here, but I could be wrong.
Ouch... my mistake. You are right.
Yes it does significantly slow down on each stroke. going to pull the starter again and maybe look at solenoid. New battery too. Thanks for all the help you all. Much appreciated. Will pay closer attention to my terminology as well.
Do you have access to a clamp-on ammeter ? The type that encircles the positive battery cable. I am suspect of the starter being the problem in regards to getting it started. A cold diesel will not start if the engine is not being turned fast enough with the starter. Has the battery cables been replaced with ones of insufficient size ? Check the ground cable where it is bolted to the frame for cleanliness and tightness.
The negative cable seems smaller and I think it's bolted to the front of the hydraulic pump. Not sure if that's where it was supposed to be originally. Did pull selenoid off and cleaned it up, but didn't make a difference. Definitely not turning fast enough. When it did run for that short time, it ran good and didn't have a problem starting when we jumped it. Haven't been able to get it started since. County coming out this Wednesday and this thing has got to running to do clean up before then. Craziness.
Pretty sure that this tractor is 24 V. You'll need 2 batteries hooked up properly.
24 volt; it certainly is. The negative cable connected to the hydraulic pump ??????. Shouldn't it be going to one of the starter bolts ? If it doesn't maybe there is a ground strap loose or missing somewhere. Be sure the batteries are connected in series and check out where #11A is bolted. -----> http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr67900ar444485
Sorry, I didn't know it was 24V. I suppose three batteries, two chargers and a car could equal 24V, but that's not the way to go about it whether it's 24 or 12.
You would think Case would have a really large decal near the battery that it's a 24 volt system. I would never consider it's anything other than a 12 volt system; like 99.999% of the stuff out there. Next trick; it's a positive ground!
Um........don't think so.
OT> whats the chances of snapping a pic of the inj. pump.. and a pic of the shut-off.. and what you think is/isn't the supply pump..?? OR get the #'s off the inj. pump.. The turning over problem "might be" the hydrolic pump trying to turn, dragging the engine down.. but then again.. hooking the bats up for 12v instead of 24v will do it too..
Started raining here so pretty much at a standstill as its a slop hole now. Ran new cables and 2 new batteries yesterday. Started turned it over much faster, but thing still won't start. I will get some pics when I get there next. Thanks again for all the input.
Now that you have the electrical gremlins under control, try spraying the diesel fuel into the intake. Just a little bit to see if it wants to start and run. That way you can diagnose if it's fuel related; no attempt to start with the fuel spray and it's pretty sure you have some other mechanical issues still to fix. Have a functional fire extinguisher on hand, the air cleaner also acts like a flame arrestor, and we don't want you burning your hoe down...
Hoe down thats no good.
Think if you can zoom you can see numbers
Talked with person who ran his thing before and he confirmed it ran with no problems before. New problem is the fuel tank has been water contaminated because cap was off. It started and ran today for a minute but thats about it. Back to square one. Biggest problem is guy said no brakes. See the treeline in pic? Thats a very busy 2 lane canyon road. Hoe is the only thing holding this thing.
No brakes ? Give a us more detailed information what that means. Are they not functioning or they are mechanically disabled. Only two things will cause absolutely no response when you depress one of the treadle valves on your 680. The linkage to both brakes have a major problem or due to a lack of air pressure someone has installed the cage bolts in the brake chambers and have released the brakes. Your 680 has a basic air brake system similar to any truck and are simple to repair.
Good pics.. I don't even have to get on the Bosch website to diagnose this one.. You see the fitting on the right side of the pic..?? it looks like its blocked off with a plug.. Loosen the plug and pump the hand primer.. its the knob in front of the side cover.. unscrew it and pump up & down till the air comes out.. and all you get is fuel.. Next. loosen the lines AT THE INJECTORS a few turns each.. spin the engine over till fuel squirts out and retighten.. If you want to see if the feed pump is working, leave the plug out and spin the engine.. it should pulse fuel w/every rotation of the pump.. IF you want to see if the shut-off is working.. remove the side cover 2-10mm bolts and see if the control rack is moving when you operate the shut-off.. OR remove the cap infront of the inj. pump and feel it moving w/ your finger.. Personally, I would start w/ the rack movement.. cuz you can have all the fuel you need, but if the rack is stuck in the shut-off position, it will NEVER start.. Good luck and keep us informed.. Happy Turkey Day..
Speaking about batteries . Some the equipment the Brits made back in the 60s and 70s were positive ground mmmmmmmmmmm .
Positive ground? See if the clock is running backwards.
I dont think its a grey market import.
Pumping all this bad fuel out right now...then we see what happens.
Can anyone tell me if thats the fuel return line?
Checked the shutoff and rack is moving. Cracked and bled all the lines and injectors (1 at a time), probably 10 times. Going to try spray bottle right now.
That's the oil pressure line. The return line is the line that comes out of the top of the pump right below the No. 1 injector port. It will go up and tee with each injector, and then after No. 4 injector, head back to tank. The rubber hose that goes into the tee under No. 4 injector port should be coming from the filter housing. That's why there is a small plug in that tee to bleed air. BTW, have you tried holding the accelerator pedal to the floor while cranking? Maybe it just needs some more fuel to start, or maybe the idle is way low and it can't get itself going?
Been holding it to the floor every time and it fires on all the cylinders (it sounds like) and wants to run, but when you let off the key it kind of stumbles and dies. There was a lot of stuff in the glass bowl from rusted spring, and I'm wondering if some of it got through to the injectors? Tried all procedures you all have mentioned (which are much appreciated) and still cant get it to run. Right now we have fuel being gravity fed from a clean can, to get around contaminated fuel, and did all the bleeding procedures and have good flow out of everything. Just trying to get it running long enough to get it out of this hole and back to flat ground. Property owner says he's got to have this thing to do some work a sap because fish and game, some geological guys and county came in and told him if it's not done they would start fining. Something to the tune of ten grand I think. I know that it runs and it runs good...that's why it's so frustrating.
I did not see any pictures of the fuel shut off solenoid. If it is the kind I think it is , it should have three wires red ,white and black. It sounds like you have lost power to the red wire. Black wire is frame ground. White wire is the pull wire and will be activated with voltage any time the starter is turning. The red wire should have power any time the key switch is on or in start position. To test this you can turn the key switch on and manually activated the solenoid and it should stay contracted . If it runs as long as you hold the starter this is likely your issue. I have seen the red wire run incorrectly to the accessory post on the key switch , it must be on the ignition post.
With all those gobt agencies wanting fines, you have to be in California. Major parts of the whole state are funded with fines and penalties. The post above is interesting; you guys with the newer tractors have my sympathy. I can't believe all the switches, relays, interlocks, and general crap you've got to deal with. My '73 has some lights, gauges, and the starter circuit and charging; only interlock is the neutral safety switch.....easy.
It has a mechanical shut-off. A simple sheathed steel cable. OVERTORQUED ; Are you sure the shut-off cable is swinging the the arm on the IP to the full run position ? What you describe sounds like the shut-off is not in the run position. Any crap in the glass bowl still has to go to the fuel filters. Check to be sure the "O' ring that is on top of the primary fuel filter is in place. If it is missing that may be your problem. It is #8 in the photo.
I see.. I told you backwards.. the line with the plug in it is FEED and the one to the left is return.. PULL the line off the return and pump the hand primer.. your should get fuel out of the fitting.. IF NOT.. the fitting has a check ball or orifice in it.. clean it, it may be stuck from all the rust and water.. Loosen ALL the lines AT THE INJECTORS at the same time and spin the engine over till you get fuel.. THINKING they are firing IS NOT the same as seeing.. Have someone work the hand primer while cranking the engine incase you have a weak or inop feed pump.. The rod in thread #43 below your hand looks like its the shut off lever.. if thats not it.. it will be directly on the other side of the inj. pump.. it should be pointing towards the front of the pump when in the run position.. if its pulled back.. that's shut off.. Personally, at this point, I would disconnect the rod from the shut off.. pull the side cover and MANUALLY work the shut-off to see if the rack is moving.. and returns to the run position on its own when you release the shut off lever.. Check the fuel flow from the return w/ the hand primer.. loosen the lines at the inj. and spin it over.. once I had fuel at the inj. tighten the lines and try to start it.. WHILE SOMEONE WORKED THE HAND PRIMER.. IF it wouldn't fire.. I would try a spray bottle.. if it wouldn't start on spray.. I would call a wrecker.. DONT FORGET.. you have the shut off disconnected.. you'll have to manually shut it down if things go bad.. just pull the lever BACK..
Anyone remember the video of the CAT pipe layer taking off DOWN the hill after being righted ? Get your machine secured with what ever you have before trying to move it. Actually I would better secure it NOW. When you get it started, move it with a back-up cable/chain belay in case the engine dies since there aren't any brakes. Worse case is killing some people with a TLB dropping on a vehicle. Then you'll have problems you never knew existed. Edit: As thepumpguysc said... Call a wrecker to get it on level ground. You 'll have a better & easier chance of getting running.
I am definitely with you on that one. There is just not enough room between where it sits and that road to feel safe for sure. Might be some money but I think the alternative is far, far worse. Thanks everyone for the input.
Could there be such a thing as too much fuel pressure?
That little transfer pump with the glass bowl can only make so much pressure. You do need to take that fitting that connects to that copper line on the front out and make sure it's intact, not plugged or what not. The fitting should be orificed to maintain rail pressure in the pump. My guess in all of this is the transfer pump is faulty. It has little plastic checks in it that stick or the springs fag out and make it inoperable. Have you removed that little plug on the supply line tee and cranked the engine to see if the transfer pump is pumping fuel?
yes,could be high pressure if the return from IP to tank isn't open I fail to see where you say YES its OPEN take loose at injector pump blow thur line to tank,,,,take line loose at tank if possible wont run if not returning
If it were my machine I would have a transfer pump plumbed into the fuel line that is between the tank and filters. Thousands of 12 volt pumps like the one in the website link I am posting were standard on Case 680's. -----> https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=8051&gclid=CMX-jLLAtckCFUGAkQodu0kG_g
I see its 4 - 9 psi. Think the one we are using is 40 psi. Part of the problem maybe? Going to have to dig one up somewhere. Thanks again all.
The actual working pressure, via the overflow valve.. is 14.5psi.. that keeps enough pressure in the gallery to feed the pumping plungers.. and the rest of the pressure pops off the over flow valve and returns to the tank.. As long as the overflow valve.. the fitting on the left..is returning fuel to the tank un-obstructed.. the 40 will be ok to get it running..
OVERTORQED; Are you sure you are getting decent pressure out of the transfer pump on the IP ? You could tee a pressure gauge into the outlet line and see what you have. Here is a link to one of the best videos I have ever seen for the 4 cinline Bosch injection pump. Go to 1:20 minutes in the video and you will see in detail how the transfer pump operates. ------> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeRm_95ETog
I had a frozen fuel line , I took a 2 gallon gas/ diesel can and ran hose off of it spout facing down for gravity direct in to the injector pump inlet bypassing everything . Fired right up . This machine had 2 fuel filters and a in line fuel pump . Give her a sniff of either to see if it will even bark .
Where is this solenoid supposed to be located? This is a last shot thing because the word "wrecker" is being mentioned. I know it runs so cant give up just yet.
See tinkerer's post #47 above, if that matches what you have, then there is no fuel shut off solenoid. The manual shut off is pushed in, right? If you're facing a deadline, bite the bullet and call a Case tractor mechanic.
Wish it were that easy . Thanks for all the help thus far.
OVERTORQUED ; Did you check the transfer pump output pressure while turning the engine with the starter ???? The one in the photo.
No i didnt... What should the pressure be? By the way, thats not fair...it looks like yours is out of the tractor and clean, lol.
With the electric pump we have installed between fuel tank and lift pump, we have 6-7 lbs with the electric pump on coming out on output side of lift pump. While cranking motor, pressure bounces between 25-30 lbs on the output side of lift pump. Only reason we are running the electric pump with external fuel tank is because fuel is contaminated in tank with water. (Replaced both filters and purged lines of bad fuel and took lift pump apart and cleaned everything out and put back on.) Electric Pump is rated at 35/gal per hour. The owner bought some time with county i think, so we are still hammering away on this thing (with you alls help) with intention of getting it running. Its not ready for the wrecker quite yet.
Reread thepumpguysc's post #56. Keep in mind he is a professional injector pump re-builder. Follow his advice and you can't go wrong.
That's decent pressure to run.. NOW.. check to see if its making its way TO the inlet side of the injection pump.. fitting on the right.. loosen the line and crank it over.. if fuel squirts out.. GOOD.. NOW.. go to the other fitting, on the left.. the overflow valve.. is fuel squirting out there, when you crank it over ?? IF YES,, GOOD.. NOW loosen the lines AT THE INJECTORS and crank the engine.. wait for the fuel to squirt out and tighten.. MAKE SURE the shut off lever is in the run position.. IF I have to type this out AGAIN.. I'm gonna find out where this equipment is and fly down and get it running my damn self.!!!! LOL Now get to work..!!! lol
Yes, yes and im working on getting to injector part again now. Will make sure lever is in run position, again, and let you know what happens. Still laughing after reading that one, at this point i really wouldnt mind ya doing it for me! But seriously, i did read your previous posts and do appreciate the help. Just a little chaotic here. Im on it!
Must still have a gang of air in the lines. Or something. It's raining here again so time to go get muddy and hope something different happens after we bleed these lines again.
Feel like a plane ride? Lol. You were right, it started and ran the best ever, but only for about 15 sec. Repeat steps again? Still air in the system? Or... Tractor boneyard.
Just trying to come up with something that has not been mentioned yet. When you pump the hand primer pump does it leak fuel, it appears to be wet in your pictures, if it does then that would be where the air is getting in the system.
When you tighten it down does it seal it off? Or it would still suck air? The primer pump does seem like it has bad seal. But it did run before so....
Is it rebuildable? Can you buy it seperate?
I would say your on the right track. Keep chipping away at it.
I repeat RETURN LINE!!,, RETURN LINE TO TANK,, will not run if not returning or wasting fuel from last injector
The fuel is returning to tank. Clear line, i can see it. Its not plugged.
If its the right track... My god how long is it? Cause it seems like ive been doing this for two weeks straight. (Whine,whine)
If leaks when you pump it , it will not seal off when you tighten it. This is probably your issue. It is sucking air. Replace or remove it and plug it off.
Cut it apart and put a couple o-rings in it and it sealed much better and tractor ran for a minute. Think it's still leaking though so going to look into maybe replacing. Appreciate all you alls input on this... Tractor gurus.
Cut it apart ??? Hmmmmm. There are a lot of online vendors that sell new cartridges for your injector pump. You need Case cartridge # 278866A1. The copper washer and gasket are sold separately. About $40.00 for everything.
I NEVER liked running an "electric" pump thru the manual pump.. without taking the valves out of the manual pump 1st.. What you could do is.. plumb the electric pump DIRECTLY into the inlet of the injection pump.. you'll have to change the fitting on the inj. pump probably to fit the electric pump.. that would by-pass any air getting into the inj. pump from any fittings or hand primer.. Just a straight in, from a bucket of fuel.. and you could run your return back in the same bucket.. by-passing all filters and restrictions..
i would try post 58
Was going to get a new one anyway -not using it like that but had to see if that made a difference.
That's exactly how it is right now.
HHMMM?? Don't make me come down there.. LOL Don't feel like a fish outta water.. I got 1 in the shop doing the same damn thing.. its a military air compressor.. they ordered a NEW pump and tried to install it on a Duetz.. if any one knows anything about a duetz engine.. you KNOW they don't have timing marks.. I reset the timing.. it will start and shut off.. WTH?? I plumbed it straight in and straight out, by-passing all the govt BS.. all 3 shut downs.. still shut down after starting.!! I pulled the side cover again and held the rack with my hand after it started.. it stayed running and I could control it with the throttle.. WTH ??? Come to find out.. they ordered a pump by the engine model.. NOT BY the PUMP #.. Bosch had NO IDEA it was an air compressor application.. and therefor the governor was NOT set-up for THAT application.. I KNOW it doesn't apply to your particular problem.. I just wanted you to know.. stuff happens.. even to me..
Right on...everyone could write a book and they would all be darn interesting. I did order new primer pump and seals today. They be in on Monday. Actually got some more work on some other tractors out of this whole mess, so not complaining. Learned a lot too!
Picking up parts today... This is GOING to work.
Every foul word you could possibly think of and then some.:Banghead think it's got me just about whooped. It's been fun.
Come on dude were 4U
Did you get it running yet? If not can you try this suggestion, "bite the bullet and call a Case tractor mechanic." I don't know these newer machines but is there a pressure switch somewhere, or something like it not allowing it to stay running?
From the looks of the background in the picture.. it looks like someplace I could work.. lol Let me know when it stops raining.. I don't work in the rain.. or when its hot.. come to think about it.. I don't work when its cold out either.. lol 77* all this weekend in SC and no rain..
I haven't seen your post that you tried Thepumpguysc's #80 post bypassing those items he listed,,,,,,,,to me this boat has hole in it and not floating
Haha...too funny you are lol. Not giving up...will keep ya posted. Have to wait again cause it's a sloppy mess out there again. Maybe it will just sink into the hill....one could only hope.
Yes did this one also. That's how its hooked up as of now.
:BangheadMy thought for today...
This might be a long shot, but here goes. We had an issue with our 1080B a long time ago. It wasn't completely dying, but acted like it was running out of fuel. I don't remember exactly why I decided to pull one of the delivery valves out of the top of the pump, but after doing so I discovered some metal chunks in it that were holding the check open. After pulling all of them and cleaning them out, it ran good for a short time before happening again. This was around 15 yrs ago, I assumed the pump was bad. Pulled pump, sent it in to get worked over. Pump shop said pump was fine, we needed to change injector lines. Apparently, the steel lines can fatigue out inside and drop small chunks of metal down to mess up the delivery checks. If I remember correctly, there are copper washers under the check valves. As long as you don't turn the engine over with them out, I believe you can remove them, clean them, and reinstall. Make sure you keep them in order. Maybe pumpguy can verify the remove/install for the checks before you pull them. Just another option. Edit: The delivery valves are the "fittings" that the injector lines connect to. You remove the little screws that hold the little locking blocks, and screw them out. I don't remember exactly how to disassemble them, but it wasn't very complicated.
Right on... I'm willing to try anything else at this point. Thanks so much.
Just to add, since last post before it was running again, the starter took a complete dump this time and could not be rebuilt. Had to get a brand new one. Ouch! I'm going to reference post #36. Pulled the side plate off ip and while it was running for a few short seconds as usual, noticed something. The fuel shut off was moving by itself (the little black shutoff thingies, don't know the exact name of them) and cutting off the fuel. I manually held the black thingies to the fully on position and tractor would start and run fine. To check to see if lever was loose on the shaft, I held lever to full on position, grabbed black shutoff thingies and was easily able to turn them from fully on to about quarter of the way off. Is there any way to adjust the play there so it doesn't automatically work its way over and shut off the fuel? So it wasn't stuck, but has a bunch of slop in it. By the way, I so appreciate all the posts. Probably wouldn't have got it to this point without the help.
Overtorqued i dont know the first thing about this one as i have a old 580ck but i have been following your post and im glad to hear you have figured it out.These guys on here are awesome i have got tons of help from them on my old ck i was tickled to see you didnt give up and now you that you got her grab a beer and enjoy!!!! congrats!!!
Nice to see you figured out that it was the shut-off. You should remove the injector pump , drain the oil out of it and send it to the pumpguysc. Sounds like it is over-due for a professional rebuild.
Tickled describes it! Only thing is it's still in the hole and we are looking at 7 days of rain starting Thursday here. And the plot thickens! You guys are going to get some interesting pics on this one starting today. Wish us luck cause we still have no brakes!
For sure, pumpguys was the first one that came to mind! If we can get it out of this hole today I'm gonna have to get ahold of that guy!
Getting the brakes to work shouldn't be that hard. They are exactly the same as air brakes on a truck. You need to set them up. 9/16" wrench, set them up tight, back off ¼ turn. Only problem is you need the park brake released to do it. Hopefully the brake chamber pancakes are not blown out. Easy enough to check. If the brakes release with the button, and you don't hear air blasting out underneath, the emergency side is good. Then, if you can press on the pedals and not hear air leaking all over, the service side should be ok. Be aware that if you hear air leaking underneath during either or these tests, the chambers could still be ok and the quick release valves could be faulty. Good luck.
Hopefully will be able to get down there after the tires get filled back up... It's sitting down in the mud pretty good. Thank you for the details. This helps tremendously.
If the brake system will not build up air pressure and you don't have any brakes someone most likely has installed cage bolts in both brake chambers. Your brake chamber may not look like the one in the picture but bolt (#5) is the industry standard. To remove it back the nut all the way off and just turn the bolt a 1/2 turn to get it out.
What are the cage bolts for? Yesterday noticed fan had about 5" of play in it so apparently needs water pump as well. 400.00 (bend over). These parts are crazy prices!
Cage bolts keep the spring compressed (which in turn keeps the brakes released) so you don't need air to hold it. Their main function is to provide safety when changing a service brake pancake, but they tend to get used for "other applications", mainly when the brakes are shot and the operator doesn't want to fix them. I couldn't imagine someone putting them into the only brakes on a machine, but I suppose it's possible. Overtorqued, are you a little familiar with truck air brakes? On to the fan. What do you mean by 5" of play? I wouldn't believe it possible to have 5" either in and out, or up and down. Sounds like the belts need tightening to me. The alternator functions as the tensioner on those. I believe the air compressor has its own belt.
This is a water pump I got for mine for $145. Man, if yours cost $400... Ouch!
I'm a little familiar with air brakes. On the fan... I believe it was at least 5", no kidding. Was about ready to come off. Never seen anything like it. This poor machine was pretty beat on previously. So here's a couple pics from today. We almost made it out of the hole tonight. Blew a hole in the lower hose, think it may be a cooler line, not sure. Was too dark. Tire came off front rim so have to fix that too. We had to leave it cresting the hill, riggers and hoe bucket dug down, chained to the tree. Going to have to try again tomorrow if the rain isn't coming down too bad.
If I had more time I know I could have found a reman somewhere. You know the guy told me yesterday that it was going to cost 305.00 and then today it was more plus an extra 30.00 for them to walk around the corner and pick it up from the warehouse. "Oh back in the day we sold a lot of remans" he said. "just had one here the other day but sent it back cause no one got it." "you don't see too many of those 680h's around anymore." So then it's okay to charge me 400 I guess. Grrrr.
Overtorqued maybe i missed this but is this something for you or for a friend if its for a friend he must be a good friend. It sounds like the bad luck your having with this is the same luck i have around my place you will have a new machine when you get her done at least your getting it and making progress.I hope this ends up being your machine after all of this.I just ordered a crapton of stuff for my old ck from tractorstuff you can search them i dont know if he may have your waterpmp or not but ask for Dale there # is 765-378-3396 he is pretty fair.Take care and get her done!!
Unfortunately the genius's at Case designed that water pump with a tapered bearing in it unlike most water pumps. I was told by a pump re-builder those bearings are in a very short supply and that is what is driving the price up on them. I paid $140.00 to have my 680 water pump rebuilt.
Good to know for in the future. Nah, not mine, but of course everything we work on is like it was our own. When it's a job, we do it to the best of our ability and want the customer happy. This one just happens to be an extraordinary challenge.
Tapered bearings in short supply? Should have figured something as such. Rebuilt is the way to go for sure if you have the time. Time to go beat the rain and get this machine up over the hill. Always an adventure.
At least your having fun.
Well I guess the soap opera has come to an end. Happy no one was injured in all of this. You all have been awesome with your help! I'm sure there will be more questions to come as we put this old beast back to working. Beer time! have a video I'm going to post a link to if I can later also.
Here is the video. Hope it works. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7RiH1R31J8paUp4dXR0allCVGM
:drinkup
Holy crap that was a hill it almost looked like twice she just about went backdown the hill i agree with whoever was saying gogo thats awesome you got it that has to be a load off. You more than earned a beer you better grab a few that had to been one h::: of a ride for the guy who put her down there the first time now that you got it going he can use it to scoop out his britches haha congrads
Congrats.. glad I could help..
Please get the brakes working before someone gets injured or killed. Roll the backhoe bucket all the way out and drop the boom to stop and or hold the machine from moving.
That thing is not going anywhere til the brakes are fixed, for sure.
I ran a 680 like that. Was a VG machine. Lots of power for pushing snow, digging and would road in 4th with a full bucket up some steep hills! It was a beast!!
This always nice when ya get them fixed.
Hi all, back at it again. Happy 2016! Took a look at the brakes today and it seems one of the valves on the brake pedals is frozen. Must be the problem i would imagine...
I dunno Overtorqued. Only if the metal arm on the pedals is in position to operate both pedals at the same time. Swing it over to enable individual brake operation and see if one or both pedals are functioning. Does the system have air pressure built up ??
Individual operation, only one side depressed. Pulled the whole valve unit out and it was in two pieces! Case was busted and the one valve was definitely frozen in the bore. That part is of course obsolete but I think I located one on eBay to the tune of 400 some bucks! These old tractors really bend ya over on the parts, but it's still worth it.
I don't know what you are looking at for $400.00. The treadle valves are a basic Bendix E3 or one of many rebuilt and rebranded ones like this one for $15.00 plus shipping. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MIDLAND-KN2...ash=item4623706742:g:KlAAAOSwirZTwspr&vxp=mtr Or a new one like this. -----> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...C0.H0.XBendix+e3.TRS0&_nkw=Bendix+e3&_sacat=0 You may want to read this thread everything in it pertains to your brake system. HeavyEquipmentForums
Wow, I just went off the part number on Case site. Then went on to eBay from there. So glad you brought that to my attention!
Glad I can help you Overtorqued.
Just a little update... Found that treadle valve here local in San Jose at a place called A&B Friction Materials. Only 70.00. Going out to install it today and we should finally have some brakes! Rain has let up for awhile and maybe we can finally get some good work out of the old beast! Thanks again all for the help. I'll let ya know how it turns out.
I am happy to say the brakes are finally working! I love this site, you all are awesome! On to the next project!
Thanks for the update.
Have you checked the brake shoes to see what shape they are in? Chances are they're probably thin, should last awhile but when it's time to change them it'd be nice to have a set on the shelf, no? Just a thought, might take some time to source them. I'm trying to remember, but I don't think they are the same as truck shoes.
That would be a good idea. Actually they look brand new. Not sure of what thickness is supposed to be when new, but they are definitely not thin at all.
Have a new problem on this thing though. Should I start new thread or just keep going? The hydraulic fluid came out looking like milk- water contaminated pretty bad. How does one flush the whole system? Already drained it, so no going back now? Any input, as always, greatly appreciated.
You have a few options. First one will take quite a bit of oil, and that's changing it several times until it cleans up. Second is quite a bit more difficult. That would entail flushing all lines and cylinders. Can be done, I helped my dad about 25 years ago do a 680E. Started by unhooking return line at the tank, started engine and let run just long enough until clean oil came out. Then proceeded to methodically unhook line by line at the cylinders and Dad would hold line in a pail and I would hold the control lever until clean oil came out. I don't suppose you have it parked with pads down, bucket dumped, and hoe stretched out, do you? That would have allowed you to have maximum amount of oil in the tank.
I think it would be ok to keep sluggin away at your machine in this thread OVERTORQUED. It is your thread. You have a quite a job on your hands in regards to flushing the contaminated oil out of the hydraulic system. If you want your pump and cylinders to last a long time you HAVE to have clean oil in the system. I have done the flush on my 680, and when I was done the system was full of pure clean oil. Follow my instructions in this thread and you can't go wrong. HeavyEquipmentForums Shimmy ; I didn't mean to sound like i am a know it all by posting this after you already addressed the issue. But I started searching 20 minutes ago for that old thread that i just posted a link to.
Pretty clos to what ya said, yes?
Going to follow your instructions. Doesn't really sound all that bad. Compared to everything else so far, should be fairly easy. .
Yer fine, Tinkerer. I started typing a whole big spiel on it and after about 5 mins got tired of typing and abbreviated it. I figured someone had to have done a compete flush before too. What you did was same basic principle, and got done way faster than we did. I was going to put in my post that I thought it burned up the majority of a 55 gallon drum, but it WAS 25 yrs ago and I didn't want to "mis-remember". LOL.
Is there a special tool to remove the nut on filter in hydraulic tank or do you just have to be a good contortionist?
No special tool needed. Drive a screwdriver thru it if you have room to get at it. You will need at least two new filters. Drain all of the oil out of the tank before doing anything. After running 3 or 4 gallons of new oil into the system, then put the first new filter on. For safety you should park your machine with the front bucket resting on the ground.
Finally got the filter off last night. Will get the 2 filters for sure. Lock is up on front bucket... We were only doing some checks and didn't plan on having to do all this, so bucket was up when we drained it. Thanks again for all the input.
Holy %&#$%! You werent kidding when you said it was job! Think you forgot to mention that a person would probably smell like, taste like and be on a first name basis with some hydraulic fluid! Im just in hysterics this morning and glad there were no pictures. Worked just as you said... The tractor gods are smiling. Dont want to see and more hydraulic fluid for a minute! Thanks so much.
I'm reading on the site here that replacing lines on the extendable are quite a big deal? No better shortcut? We seem to have a line that's been broken and capped off. Probably why it doesn't extend I would imagine. Need to replace that hose though. What are we looking at, removing the whole thing?
Well that's not good.... It's pretty quiet here.
I don't know. My machine doesn't have that fancy attachment. My guess would be start taking things off until you can get to the problem. Maybe some pics would help to see what you see.
The 680E my dad ran years ago had steel lines running under the boom up to the stick hinge point, then hoses at the hinge, and steel lines inside the stick connecting to the cylinder. I remember helping pull the tube one time, but the details are a little fuzzy? I believe the inner tube and outer shell are pinned together along with the rod end of the cylinder inside? I know you have to drop the bucket, stretch the hoe out, and unhook the bucket cylinder and extendahoe cylinder hoses. Then, you need to pull the pin that connects the barrel of extendahoe cylinder to the main part of stick. If I'm not mistaken, you can look up from the underside of the hinge area and see the cylinder and hose connections. The pin will have snap-rings that hold it in place? Remove the retaining rings, remove the pin, and you should be able to pull the whole assembly out. Be careful, if that inner tube was neglected in regards to grease, it will be a steel sliver nightmare. Good luck.
Your memory serves you correctly... Only thing is we spent almost two days trying to beat that rusted pin out! Lots of PB and Wd40, a little heat and a 16 lb sledge. Got a few pics. Had 2 new hoses made up at Napa and should be good to start working tomorrow. I think I have experienced enough grease and hydraulic fluid to last me a lifetime. Thanks all. Pesky stuck pin Wasn't hard to pull ram out once pin was out
You don't know how lucky you are that the front is open to pull the cylinder out. The 780C we had you had to pull the tube assembly out.
If you're planning on using this hoe much at all, take a good look at this area. Chances are if it hasn't been repaired yet, it's either cracked or it will crack around the pin boss. Best way to fix is air-arc out the old weld, and re-weld it back. Then, have some 1/4 or 5/16" plate about 18" long bent into a channel that fits the boom tightly. Cut a hole so it fits around the pin boss, and weld it lengthwise top and bottom and around the pin boss. A diamond shaped fish plate works too, just depends on your preference.
Very good to know... I will definitely give it a close inspection. Just finished putting everything back together and seems to work great. Couldn't have done it with out all of you alls knowledge. Awesome site.
Just wanted to give a little update on the 'ol case 680H. Thanks to all ya all's help, this thing is still running like a BOH! Its a beast and just keeps on going. Thanks to this site and all the awesome people here once again!
Glad to hear you got that machine running. It's been an ongoing project since I bought mine, and it's good to know the money I spent is well worth it. Whether it's your machine or not (not as in this case) it's a good feeling of accomplishment after all the bloody knuckles and headaches you had pays off when it’s done.
Your not lyin for sure... They are almost like little children in a way. Always happy to hear that they are still goin with no problems.
The old beast is still goin strong...
Just had to do an update... Gotta love this 'ol asphalt heifer'. May have been made for the pavement but it always comes thru no matter what. I am so glad i found this site- you all helped me out tremendously!
Which engine is in this machine, is it the 336?
Not totally positive but I think its a 336B, does that sound right?
Yes that sounds about right, I couldn't remember if Case had gone to the 5.9 yet in that model. So did you get your issue taken care of or is she still given you problems?
Did you get your issue taken care of?
Yeah, issues all taken care of. Was just giving a little update that the 'heifer' is still going strong. Wouldn't have been able to do it without this forum.
You are welcome, she'll be a good beast for you but heavy of course you know that.
Had a few things that needed repairing recently on the 680H... it’s always several things that go out all at once with this tractor it seems. Ignition switch started acting up- that was an easy one. New CAT ignition took care of that. Then it started starving for fuel again and I had flashbacks to the beginning of this soap opera LOL! Wasn’t getting fuel to the bowl, so replaced the filters, but nothing. Noticed the fuel bowl was cracked and leaking and replaced that but still didn’t get anything coming out enough to keep it running. Crap- just had a 4.5 earthquake! Hate those things- it’s what I get for livin in this CA armpit!
Those EQ's are scary.. don't see'um coming. There has to be a blockage between the fuel tank & the filter or your cap is clogged.. easiest thing to do is, take off the fuel tank cap & SEE if you have flow.. IF NOT, disconnect the line going to the filter & blow back thru to the tank w/ compressed air.. LEAVE THE CAP OFF.. Good luck.
I don't think you can blow back into the tank on a 680H. There is a check valve (#9) mounted on the tank. Also there is a strainer (#1) in the tank. Unless someone has removed them.
You are correct about being a blockage... the strainer on the pump in the tank, was deteriorated and pump was sucking all the schmoo from the bottom of the tank and getting plugged. So we drained the tank out and then had no problem getting the fuel up and out to the external fuel pump that was put on previously. All in all was easy to do, just a little greasy.
Happy to help.. Most problems "like that" are an easy fix IF you know where to look. {unless your working on a skid steer,lol}
I never have understood why there are strainers in fuel tanks. It seems a lot easier to change filters than drain maybe a full tank of fuel and remove the strainer.
Its the tank/machine manuf. saying, "WE might have dropped something in there.. but probably not.. its purely for YOUR protection".. lol
I work on a lot of cars/trucks also, and like the machinery, I am amazed at how some of them are designed, and the way in which they have to come apart. I think ‘boy, I would really like to get ahold of the person who designed this thing!’. Somebody has to be laughing somewhere. SMH.
I know whatcha mean OT.. Before I left my old job, 1 of the last things I worked on was a JCB forklift, The fuel tank was FULL & I MEAN FULL of rust.. & it was welded into the frame!!! it was actually PART OF the frame.. NOT just sitting in a hole, welded in, it was PART OF the frame!!! Needless to say it was impossible to remove the tank & replace it , that's how bad it was.. or do a GOOD job of cleaning it.. It did have a plug on the bottom but the thread plug in the tank went up about an inch, so most of the rust flakes stayed IN the tank.. HEY, NO PROBLEM, I'll just go thru the top?? NOPE.. I pulled the "access plate" it was just big enough to get your fist in..& what was there?? A BAFFLE PLATE.. running across the top.. you couldn't even SEE inside the tank.. We ended-up calling a "fuel polishing company".. they have spray nozzles on the end of their wands & then suck or drain the fuel out & run it the several different micron filters & the same fuel goes back in.. I told the "foreskin" that it was done & send it back w/ NO WARRANTY cuz there was NOTHING ELSE we could do.. THAT was something I'll never forget.. a RENTAL fork lift w/ a fuel tank as part of the frame.. Brilliant !!!!
The foreskin hahahahaha good one
Well it's a sad day... The head gasket finally went on the 'asphalt heifer'. It hasn't outlived it's usefulness yet so could anyone recommend where to possibly get a used motor? I would do a rebuild but there are not many machine shops left around here that I have had good luck with.
Your 336 are very scarce. The 301 is the identical engine with a smaller bore. If you find a used motor it will probably cost more than the machine is worth. Parts to repair and or overhaul them are readily available. Isn't it worth to at least remove the head and see what happened to cause the leak ? Here is a 301 and it will bolt right into your 680. All States Ag Parts has it. https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-attachment/for-sale/list?catid=22022&manu=j+i+case
I would rebuild the engine myself. A used engine would probably cost more and you don't know what you're really getting.
Yes, after searching some they are definitely scarce. Looks like we be rebuilding it then- its probably got 20,000 hrs on it (maybe not that many haha). It hasn't outlived it's usefulness so will go that route. I'll update what I find. Thanks again.
Here’s a salvage 680E you might want to call about
You need to look at this as “Fuel system troubleshooting 101” with the staff of heavy equipment forums.com. You’re getting a fantastic education on this unit. And this education is going to take time. I’d be thrilled that I am learning so much from some very experienced people, and working on saving a piece of gear from the scrap yard.
Everything is in short supply these days. My Deere dealer said they were having trouble getting filters. I bought a set for the shelf.
BTW, loved reading this entry. The knowledge depth shown by forum members blows my mind. I learned a lot!!