Hello all, First post and new to all this stuff, so be gentle..lol I have a cavitation problem with my Case 9060B. I have read forum after forum and I may have found out what the cause is but figured I would ask my question on here and see what people that know this type of equipment think. I purchased some land, purchased two used excavators and went to town. Three times now my EX has lost power. It happens momentarily and then keeps going once I take the load off. It has happened when I drove the EX from the front of my property to the back, almost a quarter mile. The second time it happened is when I idled down and jumped out to get on the TB175 to move a tree I just knocked down the the big EX. I thought I would be off for just a few minutes, however I was on the 175 for about 25 minutes. When I got back on the EX to start working again, it would lose power when I was digging hard. The third time happened again when I was driving the EX for some distance. So far: 1. I have realized when I check the dip stick on the swing drive dip stick, it has bubbles in it. After research, I have learned this problem is called cavitation. 2. I called the dealer and asked what the problem would be and what parts I may need to fix it, and I was told that it may need new Hydraulic Fluid. He said that lots of people think any HF will work and will put in whatever hydraulic fluid they have. He said this machine takes "Ashless" Hydraulic fluid. That's the only advice he gave me. I decided to order all new filters for the whole machine and now have three 55 gallons drums of Ashless 46 AW Zinc-free hydraulic oil. 3. After rethinking this and doing some more research, I have read on a forum that if my hydraulic tank is leaking pressure, that may be the cause of the cavitation. The poster states that the tank is pressurized by the movement of the stick. That makes since to me as the 3 times this has happened, I wasn't using the arm for quite some time. I was driving for a while and then it was running idle for a while. So, I fired the big boy up and used her for a bit and when I shut her off, I could hear hissing coming from the hydraulic tank vent. So I guess my question is. . . . . . is that normal? 4. I have noticed what looks to be like a small leak, nothing dripping though. I didn't notice if it was there before, but since I don't recall, more than likely I would have noticed and it's "new". It's coming from pump assembly. See attached picture. Also, this machine has worked and still works well. . . . until it doesn't....lol.... My point is, the machines seems solid as a rock. I've never used these type of machines new, but compared to my TB175, this is solid. Starts up, works great, I can put the arm out and it's locked where I put it. All I do is shut the machine off, come back the next day and she fires right up and works great. After the 3rd time and finding the bubbles in the hydraulic oil, I figure it's best to fix her before doing more work. Some questions I have: 1. Is it normal for the tank to vent pressure? 2. I have been unable to find online how to place the arm and bucket while checking the hydraulic oil level. When I place the arm extended on the ground with the buckets ram fully retracted (the TB175 is supposed to be checked that way) the hydraulic fluid is full. When I place the arm perpendicular to the ground with the buckets bottom flat on the ground, they hydraulic fluid is low. I really have no clue. . . . . If there is a manual to be downloaded, I haven't found it yet. (I'm sorry, I just ran across this site and wanted to post, I haven't checked here yet.) 3. Should I replace all the H oil? 4. If you were in my shoes, what would your next step be? I am currently trying to locate someone in the area knowledgeable on this machine. Anyone near Monticello KY? I GREATLY appreciate any advice you can provide. I feel i am a quick study and willing to spend countless hours researching before I ask. I purchased the TB175 from Insurance Auto Auctions with a burnt engine compartment. I took the project on to teach my son that anything can be accomplished as long as you stay dedicated. I mention this so you have some ideal of my mechanical abilities.
It only let me attach 4 pictures. So.. These are the pictures of the placement of the arm and bucket and where the hydraulic fluid level is. Is it looking good?
Welcome to the HEF. Happy 2022. Wow. Holy wall of text, Batman. 1st. Cavitation you say? Since you are special forces, Thank you for your service. Does your Case sound like a belt-fed when the power cuts out? Like twin belt-feds? Because that’s what cavitation sounds like. Like a M249 having a orgasm. Please confirm. 2. bubbles in the swing drive transmission?. Wait, what? That doesn’t have anything to do with the hydraulic oil or hydraulic system. That’s a separate compartment. 3. .45 or 9mm?
Well S..T, I thought I may have been on the right track. But you may hit the nail on the head about the popping, or the lack there of. Some of the symptoms I have read about cavitation I am not having. I do NOT hear any popping. Last night when I was researching (prior to writing this) I located the exploded diagram and I realized what I was pulling the little dip stick out of was not the hydraulic oil. (unless somehow they H oil flows into the swing motor somehow and doesn't pressurize it. yeah yeah, I'm an idiot. lol. Soooo. . . . I am now thinking that this has nothing to do with the hydraulic fluid. I also read that the fuel filter may be the issue. As I'm pulling a heavy load, the fuel can't get to the engine starving it, and then when I release the load the engine revs back to normal. I can move slowly, or dig lightly, but when I move fast or dig hard, it bogs down. I guess once I saw the bubbles I thought *** and started down that path, not realizing until yesterday that probably isn't the issue since the oil is in the drive transmission. By any chance do you know why there would be bubbles in there? Is that normal. I have no issues with the machine other the once discussed. I am at a loss as what to do next. Thank you for the invite to the site. Respectfully Brian Roberts
Most excavators of that era had the hyd oil checked with the dipper curled in and boom down on ground should be able to find that info pretty easily
Changing the fuel filters sounds like a good idea. Any idea on maintenance history? To answer your question about the swing drive transmission, it has a gear set that chews and shears the gear lube. Bubbles on the dipstick are inconsequential. Unless it’s foaming or contaminated with water or overfilled and contaminated with hydraulic oil.
Lets see if i can help, you are saying it "looses power" So the machine stops moving the hoist/stick, or does it just seem to lack the ability to dig? Looses engine power, fuel filters first, looses hydraulic power, pilot pressure check first. I believe you are looking at a fuel problem. That IS cavitation in the swing box, A set of stacked planetary gears when swing/slew is activated will do that, NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. As for "low ash" hydraulic oil........ the machine was filled with "AW 46" from the factory, low ash will last longer, but not required. As for the "hiss" from the hydraulic tank when shut down, on the 4 bolt cover on the top of the hydraulic tank closest to the hand rail is a small pressure relief/vent valve. I have seen that valve fail on 9030's and 9040's (would not vent). Yes, that can cause all sorts of problems. Pumps will sound like the Acme boiler works at low tide! It will collapse a suction line. Worth looking at. Back in the latter part of the last century LOL I was servicing a fleet of 9040's and 9060's. Well put together and very reliable. Hope this helps, stay safe
Old Timer. . .Thank you for the response. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, I was unloading the saw mill and getting some things down around here. I will try to explain "losses power" better, but I think you may be correct, I am now starting to believe it is the fuel filter. Losses power....hmmm..... works perfectly, however when driving on the driveway, when I start to go uphill (remember, this is a driveway so "uphill" is relevant, its not that steep) it will bog down and if I don't release the controls immediately, it will die. Or..... the same thing will happen (only once) when I am trying to rip a tree out and doing heavy work. I believe it happened when I was lifting the tree from the roots with a big ball of dirt still attached.... The engines starts to die and then I stop what I am doing immediately, and the engine revs back up. However, once it happens, it seem like it keeps happening. . . I can't get back to work. I need to stop the machine and come back to it tomorrow. . . So far I have used the 9060 for an hour or so twice and it works without issue. . . . So if I am reading your response correctly, the hissing/venting from the vent IS normal and it should be doing it? I pulled up on the rubber cover that is covering the pressure release valve and it releases the pressure faster. Front what I can tell, the vent IS working as it should....IF.... you say it is supposed to vent pressure. . . . ."It will collapse a suction line, worth looking at". . . . Is this the line that goes from the tank to the pump? I'm sure I will have googled this by the time you respond, but any knowledge from someone with experience is in valuable. So thank you for helping, it is greatly appreciated. . . . You don't by any chance have a manual on the 9060 do you?
RatMotorHead. . Can you take a look at the original pictures I posted. There are two picture of the machine and how the boom/bucket is placed and two pictures of the hydraulic tank site glass. Does this look about right?
Looks to me like the small dipstick is for oil level of of the pump gear box. I would clean out the banjo bolt filters, and make sure hyd oil level is checked at correct position . I believe the hyd tank holds about 9 psi of air. Similar to the link belts of that era. Any low hyd levels will give cavitation when low . It will operate functions fine until it uses its cylinder capacity, then when you reach out far or dig deep it will suck air in at tank
My bad, I meant the second post. It only allowed me to attach 4 pictures at a time, so the second post has the 4 pictures I wanted you to look at.
Curl dipper stick in toward yourself all the way and bucket too then look at site glass lay it on ground
The vent at the top of the tank has 2 functions, holds pressure in the tank (i believe Ratmotorhead has the psi right!) and will allow atmospheric pressure in (most of the time that is at cold startup) that is when I saw the collapsed suction line, BTW it was -45C at the time ........ brrrrrrrr. When travelling both pumps are full stroke and the main relief is in high position (like in heavy lift) that is about max load on the engine, I would replace the fuel filters first. A good way to see if you made a change is do a stall test before and after. Warm the machine up, at high idle curl the bucket over relief and note the rpm, Then pull the stick in over relief and note the rpm. Remember, 1 function at a time. Both stall speeds should be the same. Bucket pump is the one nearest the engine, the stick is the outside pump. Change the fuel filters and retest. You can see/hear a difference you have it beat. M11 engines really love clean fuel, and a lot of it. I will check if i have any info/manuals this weekend and let you know. MMMMMMM, reminds me, same job, dozer operator ticked me off, first thing in the morning i crawled up to his machine before he started it and added about 3 cups if un-popped popcorn to the exhaust pipe. Real interesting look on his face after a few minutes running, a few uncooked bites then it looked like a volcano. HAHAHAHA Rest of the operators were asking if he is cooking his snack.... and how did he melt the butter! Hope this helps, and hope you have a snicker Stay safe!
LOLOL. . . . Your my type of guy...My wife and I (we live in a tent on our land while we are developing it, so always together) read your popcorn story and both started laughing. Sounds like something my Special Ops boys would do. We always f..k with each other like that. I always tell people, the moment we stop busting your balls is the moment you need to worry. . . . Great story and thanks to everyone that has helped. I will keep you updated and let you know when I get it accomplished. . . Your knowledge is invaluable. . . Build a better world. . . Thanks again.
The low fluid in the sight glass is when the boom is up and stick in, and the good level is when the boom is out, right? add fluid till it's correct with the boom in. but that's not causing the engine to stall. Check the banjo bolt screen like RMH said, assuming you have any. The screen will be INSIDE the vertical bolt at the inlet to the transfer pump on the inlet at the bottom. Another possibility is a floater in the tank that gets sucked against the outlet, or a rubber fuel line collapsing. All a possibility at that age.
Thank you Delmer. Tomorrow I will be setting up the saw mill. I am using the big boy a little here and there to move stuff around, but nothing major until I figure it out. I ordered every filter this thing has from the dealer and they are getting picked up tomorrow. So hopefully in day or two I can give an update. Thank you for the help, it's appreciated. After re-reading the advise from others, I was going to add fluid. Thank you for confirming. The first I heard of a floater, makes since. I will do my best to get some light in the tank and look around. When I dive into this, I will hit all the stuff you and others talked about. Today was used for getting another 275 tote filled with water, 110 gallons of diesel 20 gallons of gas for the little generator and an 30 minutes getting the land rover up the hill with the trailer....lol...oh what fun... I started laughing at myself as I was getting frustrated and said to myself, I use to pay to do this s..t. My buddy and I use to go off roading at Haspin Acres, and paid to get stuck in the mud..... So I guess its all how you look at it. Anyway, when my father arrives tomorrow I am filling his tail pipe with popcorn...lmao...
I'll chime in here on your lack of power problem. Be sure and check the banjo bolts at your fuel settlement bowl connections for trash. Also there is a screen in the settlement bowl that needs to be cleaned every once in a while. I'm not sure which engine you have in your machine, Case used two different ones either an Izuzu or Cummins L10 or M11, so you might want to check fuel pressure. There is a hyd. tank pressurization system on that model also the puts pressure in the tank because of the pump location being almost above the tank, so make sure the air is working.
Coy, I just finished up watching the Trump speech that he gave in Arizona and thought I would check this. My machine has Mitsubishi wrote across the top of the engine. So I am assuming with what you said, it has the Izuzu engine. My wife informed me that we have a winter advisory for tomorrow (Monticello KY), so I doubt I will get to it in the next 24 hours. I am putting the tank pressure on my "to check" list. I must say, your group here is wonderful, the knowledge "and willingness to help" is something the world should learn. Thanks for the tip and like I have told others, I will make sure to give and update.
I stand corrected on the engine Sir, I couldn't remember which ones were used for sure. We got just a bit of snow last night here in Northeast Arkansas nothing bad at all, sunshine today high of 41.
The little ones are nearly identical, mirror image though, Isuzu and Mitsubishi swapped side to side. Usually the same inline injection pump and transfer pump and banjo bolt screen. Here's the first good pic I found. Don't read the post though, every one I've seen has the intake on the bottom, the green arrow. But follow your fuel lines from the tank to the water separator to the transfer pump to the filter and back to the injection pump. The screen will be inside the banjo bolt on the intake to the transfer pump, to keep trash from plugging the transfer pump valves. https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/108190-isuzu-4bd1-fuel-pump-banjo-bolt-filter-location/ the aluminum is the injection pump, the black part is the transfer pump, yours should be similar. If it's not, post a pic.
Well Well Well.....Guess what I did today? I went out, dusted off as much snow as I could and got to work. I had 6 boxes in the back of the HMMWV and what do you know, the first think I was going to replace was the air filters. It had a big air filter, much like the 5 ton you see in the picture, however the new filter didn't fit, nor did the smaller air filter inside of the big one. So I gave the shop a call that placed my order. The order that when placed, I said "If the filter is located on this machine anywhere, I want to purchase it". So after looking everything over, they said two of the 6 will work. It's the two hydraulic filters that go in the tank. Although one of the filters says "fuel filter", after doing some research I guess that is the correct filter for the hydraulic oil. Then I thought it would be best to did up the parts diagrams myself after this set back and low and behold, I find another hydraulic filter that is located in the engine compartment that looks like a normal car size oil filter. I find another filter, (although I questioned if there was a filter in the housing when I saw it before, it looked like there would be) that maybe the thickness of a water bottle and half the length. Also, I always questioned what the black ball looking thing was, I found out it was an accumulator. I found a fuel filter (what I call normal size) and two big A%% filters on the bottom rear of the engine. I also found a filter in the schematic - Auxiliary Equipment - Single Action, Basic Hydraulics Case - that I have no idea where on the machine it is (I haven't looked for it yet, just found it in the diagrams) So that's 6 filters not including the two in the tank already. . . NEW INFORMATION: The engine that my machine has is a Mitsubishi 6D22-TC OK, so something that I forgot to mention in the original post. Once this machine bogs down, it continues to do so and seems to get worse and worse rapidly. As an example. I was maybe 50 yards (meters for you military types) down a 15 degree (guessing) sloped hill. Once I had the issue of bogging down, which I had once before, I told myself, I need to fix this and started driving the 50 yards back up the hill to flat ground so if I needed to do any repairs, I wouldn't be on a hill. As I was moving, it bogged down two or 3 more times just to get it back up the hill, and that is with me BARRRREEELLLYYY moving the pedals as little as I could to keep the machine from dying. . . . It happened in the same manner the first time the bogging down happened, other than I was digging heavy clay. I just shut it down not wanting to do any damage. . . . . . So. . . . . That was something I wanted to add in. . . What would cause it to bog down, and then KEEP bogging down once the problems shows itself? When it happened the first time for me (after my sons first experience) I had already been digging for hours. but then after it happened, it kept happening until I shut it down and went back the next day. . . . . . that is reminding me of what Delmer said, maybe it's a floater in the tank. Once it gets stuck, it stays sucked to whatever it is sucked to until the machine cools off and then it frees itself up? The tank IS pressurized, it started to push out hydraulic fluid from the screw hole when I removed the first screw for the hydraulic tank filter, so I tightened it back up and loosened the bolt on the other cover to let the pressure out (yeah yeah, I know....feel free to give it to me good...lol...This is all new to me so I can take a beat down as you're giving advice...lol) . It could be the fuel filters, I'm still working that issue, but would it work perfectly for hours and then bog down and keep bogging down? Maybe..... A fuel line collapse like someone mentioned, that makes since if the line keeps getting hotter and hotter until it's soft enough to collapse. . . I'll look it over really good when I get the correct filters. I haven't added more hydraulic fluid yet, I will do that also (it was cold today, and once I realized they gave me the wrong filters, it was extremely demotivating to say the least. I took lots of pictures today but its 2:40 East Coast Time so I'll post them tomorrow. I do have a few questions as to what some parts are if anyone wants to chime in and help. Thanks to all. Build a better world!
I wouldn't worry so much about all the hydraulic filters and air filters immediately. If you want to solve the stalling issue, keep at the fuel filters, banjo bolt and rubber hose. another possibility that would do the same thing is a cracked rubber hose starting to leak air when it warms up, happens all the time, and I don't remember if anybody mentioned that. Might find a crack near a fitting where it bends, or you might not find a crack, but it still leaks air.
If it were me, I would get the correct fuel filter on it then hook up a jug of fuel at the inlet line. If it runs any better could be a lift pump issue. If it still runs bad and bogs may be stuck in full awash. If you still have your functions but bogs on all of them , could be pump not switching to give high pressure when you need it. Check fuel first then someone here can instruct on how to decide when is in high pressure or high volume
UPDATE: For everyone that has helped and given advice, I want to thank you for the help. So far I have changed the two internal hydraulic filters, the hydraulic filter on the outside of the tank in the engine bay, the fuel filter (wow, was it dirty and rusty) and the two massive oil filters. The shop gave me the wrong filters for everything, so it took me some time researching and doing what needed to be done to get the proper filters. The only thing that I haven't replaced was the air filters. However, I did clean them the best I can. So far, I have ran the big girl for two solid days and no issues. I have not identified what the problem was, but I am guessing the fuel filter. I did find a fuel line that looks like it has a barrel connector and the hose clamps seemed a little loose. I tightened them up. So thank you all!!! So....My next question is, how important is the oil in the swing gear? Bad way of phrasing that question I guess. It appears the oil level is a little high. The oil looks clean, however this is the spot where I originally thought I was having the cavitation problem (wow, how much I have learned, I thought that it was the hydraulic oil, what an idiot) and besides being a little high on the dip stick, everything works good. Thoughts? In my original pictures, the pump seems to have a very minor leak of hydraulic fluid coming out of the 3 holes where the pump connects to the engine. it's minor, trivial at best. I haven't cleaned the area good and checked to see if the problem is happening since I have added about 10 gallons of H-fluid and changed all the filters, however I wanted to get your all's input to see if there is any preventative measures I can do to prevent it from getting worse. The good news about the excavator problem is that it caused me to do maintenance on other equipment. I now have a fresh belt, thermostat, fuel and oil filter on my DRASH 130,000 btu generator trailer. Always positive. Building a better world!
Glad we could be of help with your excavator. Of course the filter change and service is always a good idea. That fuel filter looks like its had some water in it, I'd drain the fuel tank and check to see if there is any water in there. The oil in the swing gear box is very important you don't want it to go out, it's a real pain to R&R and expensive. There is a drain pipe or hose underneath the machine just in front of the engine bay area. There should be a access plate with three bolts and the drain pipe should be right there. I'd drain the gear box and refill with correct gear oil to proper level. Now on your rear oil leak I'm afraid to say that it looks to me like the rear engine seal is leaking. Sooo you know what that means. And BTW is that a crack I see in the what looks like the housing?
Well ****, I hope not!! (about the crack) lol....and unfortunately (maybe fortunately) I don't know what that means... "reer engine seal is leaking. Sooo you know what that means." If I am correct at what I think you are looking at, I don't believe it's a crack. However I will check tomorrow before the ice storm rolls in. Any more information on the real engine seal would be great. I can put in the wrench time, but 10K for a new pump I'm not to excited about. I'm very happy with the outcome of the new filters and extra H fluid. She's been working perfectly. My next low tank of fuel, I will drain the tank, thanks for the advice.
The hyd. pump will have to be removed to replace the rear engine crankshaft seal if that is what it is. I'm not sure what the photo was of that looked like it had a crack in it. I'd run the machine for now and keep an eye on oil consumption in engine and hydraulics.
Update. I wanted to thank everyone that gave me advise and took the time to assist their fellow man. I have been doing some heavy lifting and she has been running perfectly! Keep building a better world!