Ok, Heeeeeeeeeeelp Please. I would normally add this to the running thread involving this machine but its here on its own as I hope it will help others. Got to the machine this morning and it was dead as a dodo! not a glimmer on the dash. No drama its been down to -7C and the machine hasnt been touched for two weeks so it was well within its rights to have the hump in my opinion. Only have 12v on the van so hooked that to one battery with the intention of having a brew ( cup of tea ) then hook it to the other and hope for a start. I checked the dash with 12v now pumping into one of the machines batteries and still nothing should be something if only a glimmer :beatsme Disconnected the jump leads and touched the ends together to see how dead the machine was. Had enough juice to start welding, so it isnt the batteries. Its been wet and its been very cold. Next to the batteries and behind a cover is this. I went here as thats where all the wires go Found 3 of 20a fuses and 1 x 65a... all OK :Banghead Couldnt be something easy like a fuse. I dont know what this gizmo is but 24v in and out at the top and a few little wires at the bottom,...... its comming off,..... and it did. I sat in the van with it against the heater, dont know why but I thought that might cure it. It warmed me up anyway. Bolted it back on, reconnected everything and.................still no power. Time to check the ignition switch, so off came the right consol top. The plug showed me 4 wires. 2 of them the same as 2 on this gizmo. Sorry about the focus. Right wire is white with a red line. Middle is green with a brown line. For some strange reason, I suppose I had decided they were supposed to be feeding the switch that was dead. I decided to touch a wire between the battery + and the right wire which resulted in a CLONK made by the gizmo and a buzzer in the cab. When I removed the wire it CLONKED again and the buzzer stopped. I checked I had connected the ign switch and with the key in the on position tried again. WE HAD PASSWORD request ( thats the immobilisor ) but a buzzer sounding. Sod it, try it. It started but I was convinced that when I removed the power from the small wire it would stop. It didnt. So I turned the machine off to make sure it would stop and the buzzer was worrying me. It stopped. Severe head scratching time. I tried the + to green brown wire and got a CLONK from the gizmo but it didnt clonk when I removed the power, while scratching my head there was a CLONK and the buzzer stopped. Time delay. Same as delay in dash clearing when the ignition is turned off me thinks. Connect + to green br wire and start machine, remove wire, machine still running, dash looks ok, throttle works but buzzer is doing my head in and starting to worry me.............................. Spot quick hitch switch has been activated, turn it off, buzzer stops :Banghead Replace right consol and work machine. What is the gizmo and is it that I need to replace.? OR is the ignition switch faulty. After running the machine for a few hours I stopped it on the key. It immediately activated the beep, beep, beep to say the immobiliser was activating and then was dead as a dodo again. + to green br wire and she fired straight up. ADVICE please. What do I need to order. DONT SAY A C@T
Komatsu?
Well my GUESS would be that gizmo is the immobilizer and it kills the main power to the machine. That said it should pull in with the key if you can energize it with the jumper.So my GUESS would be ignition switch is not sending voltage to it to energize it. It does interrupt the power holding it in so this could be total nonsense. GGraham or Alrman should be able to tell you correctly.
Your gizmo is called a battery relay switch, and is working. Your problem is it is not getting a signal from your ign switch. You must have an open circuit between your batterys and ing switch or from ing switch to gizmo. Good luck
Definitely battery disconnect solenoid. I've seen them wired to disconnect positive power, or ground, depending on how the mfg wanted it wired up. Hard to say for sure by pics, but it look like it's the positive cable going to the solenoid. Hey Rob, you disconnected the cable that comes from the battery to the solenoid in one of the pics. That cable has a wire that's connects to the solenoid along with the cable on the same terminal, that wire is the circuit you want to check. It should go to the ignition switch to it's own terminal, then when you turn on switch, it should transfer power to a different terminal to send a signal back to relay coil. That wire could have an in-line fuse, be sure and check for that.
I just went through the same thing on a 9010B. The problem was a broken wire on the fuse holder under the relay. The wire was corroded at the bottom of the fuse holder. The stock one takes a special fuse. We just replaced it with one from the napa store.
Get a Hitachi! haha
That's your cab solenoid. I think it's pretty common for them to go out about every 5 to 7, either years or thousand hours on a case. The last one I bought was around $70.00 I think. Before I done much worrying or poking around I would replace it and go from there. That should get you going.
Im thinking the same as NWH, for starters your relay (gizzmo) IS working thats what its doing when you here the clonk! Apart from that i cant really help you, cos it could be a broken wire anywhere! but i would start with the qoute above as I expect the 9010b is an earlyer similar set up! Hope this is of some help CPS
Judging by the picture I'd do some wire clean up. Take the wires right off make sure they are not green and half rotted through. Be sure they are making good contact at the solenoid. But like just about everyone said it's either no power from your ignition switch to the solenoid, or could be a faulty solenoid. Turn the key on and check for voltage at the solenoid, I'm guessing you have none as a jumper wire from the B+ engages the solenoid.
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. :notworthy I am looking into both a Komatsu and an Hitachi purely on your recommendations. I am not an electrical expert at all and had no way of checking for power, or resistance at the time and was not 100% sure where I really should be checking anyway. With your kind assistance and suggestions I will start with that + wire as suggested by Atcoequip and see if that is giving power to the switch which I suspect it is not. I had been scratching my head trying to fathom where the switch got its power, which non of you will be suprised at after the bulb performance I was quite chuffed with myself for actually getting it started. I wont get near it now until after Christmas but will be sure to update with results.
Hi Rob, I have had quite a few encounters with these beasts on Hitachi's. There have been several bodges done to bypass them, but you may consider doing exactly as I did with my Zaxis 160. I simply bought a heavy duty Key type isolator switch (the one you normally see on a Volvo dumptruck with an 'L' shaped metal key) they are easily obtained and around £25. All you need to do is fit the large cables to the two terminals on the new switch and then cover the two small wires with suitable insulation and leave them in case someone wishes to refit a new isolator. (I simply put some heatshrink sleaving over each wire terminal so it could be easily removed) The benefit of the key isolator is obviously an increase in security, and if you make a simple box to house it in with just the key slot poking through helps prevent it being bridged with a spanner easily. Only downside I think is that the machine is 'live' so to speak until you turn the key off, but a good operator such as yourself would always turn off and pull the key out at the end of a shift. Might be added security if you are leaving the machine all week.
Hi Eddie, I am hoping that the relay is ok. From what others have posted and my understanding of the jumper cable making it CLONK! I am hoping that the problem is, no feed, to the switch. My problem will be finding exactly why
alternator i may be barking up the wrong tree but i seem to remember starting probs on a hitachi ,and it was to do with the alternator telling the machine it was running when it was not ,so not allowing it to start just thought it may be similar hope you all had a good christmas cheers graham
Sounds like the diodes on the wires firing the ground isolator relay,mind the timer relay that you don't short it out.
Speaking of shorting things out Rob, buy a 24v test light and a cheap multimeter. Might save you from frying something or exploding batteries. Nice bit of diagnosis by the way. (What does "chuffed" mean?)
chuffed [chuhft] –adjective British,delighted; pleased; satisfied.
Thankfully, we have a interpreter...who can speak Gaelic as well! :notworthy
Hi Rob, I understood the relay is not getting any power to it to activate it, but my point was that if you were to fit a manual 'key' type isolator instead of the relay then there is no need for any power to activate it anyway. You are simply turning it on manually, with the added benefit of being able to turn it off and remove the key for security. As for tracing the fault in the original feed, I can only offer sympathy as I too spent many happy hours on the Zaxis looking for a wiring fault. Resorted to an Auto Electrician who was reccomended to me and he soon got it sorted. Good Luck!
:thumbsup I agree. I have one, just not with me when I needed it Yes, sorry about that chaps, didnt think about it before using the expression. Thanks stock, you nailed it perfectly It can also mean something quite different. " have you chuffed " ( passed wind ) What concerns me slightly is how does the ign switch having activated the relay ( gizmo) let the starter know to turn / throw in the starter solenoid. I am expecting that when I remove the ign switch and double check the wiring that one of those wires goes to the starter solenoid. BUT If I am not getting a feed to the switch ( I hope that is the problem ) then doing away with the gizmo will not solve my problem, me thinks. To add to my head scratching I cant get my brain around why there are two wires on the bottom of the gizmo that appear to do the same job. :beatsme There are in fact 3 wires but as playing with 2 got me going I left everything else well alone. Hopefully a bit of circuit testing will help pinpoint or at least narrow down the problem. The problem might be as usual.......................in the seat. :beatsme
Are those like piles? ......................a pita Thank you very much stock, the more I read, the more I am looking forward to this little exercise in circuit discovery ... PS, whoever bought you the colour palate for Christmas, give it back.
I have been down this road,cost me a packet and then a buddy who had a hitachi told me about the diodes on the loom so off we went looking,not knowing what I was supposed be looking for.Eventually we found little yellow and green square thinggies which we tested and found a faulty one replaced it and a timer circuit Eureka away she went. Now the reason for the painting well I hate being Ignored and it appears to have been successful.
So what do you paint when the wifey ignores you? Kitchen or bath?
LoL...Better mind him Rob, or he'll have Santa look into your file next year like he did mine this Christmas. Santa told me I should try harder to "shut up now and then". :laugh
Well I was never around long enough to be ignored,until recently that is,and now the surgeon won't allow me to paint,health and safety won't allow me up a ladder couple that with the risk assessment,method statement,cosh regs and 2006/7 general applications it's cheaper to delegate it Bill.
We have contact Thanks men :notworthy Got to the machine today only to realise that the spare non Case key I have, only opens the cab door and activates the ignition but not the engine cover or side panel doors. :Banghead No working party today so no team leader with the usual keys. I went solely to try and get the machine sorted. About an hour later a key arrived. First thing after the usual checks is see if it starts.............. no. Ok thats probably a good thing else I would never find the fault. Hot wired the gizmo and fired the machine up, let it run while I had a cuppa and sorted out a plan . Shut the machine down and removed the dash panel to get at the ign switch plug. Checked for power at the plug and got 3v double check, 2.9v, dont push it. With a long piece of spare wire from the plug, out the window to the side panel, I checked the wire from top of gizmo for resistance ....... 0. I knew that, ............it wont start lol. I checked the wire through the fuse and back into the loom/harness all ok. Removed the batteries for access and cleared all the leaves out. Released the harness and started to investigate it as it sort of T's behind the batteries and I wanted to check that out to make sure I was checking the correct wires at the switch. All appeared OK. I checked continuity from the switch to the gizmo on the other two wires. OK. I found a small PITA.... sorry Diode, behind the seat and checked that, OK. Need to remove panelwork from rear of cab to get at computer and rest of harness as everything appears ok so far. Not happy, dont really want to be doing that. Go back to battery area to the exposed loom and start to open it up a bit more so I know exactly what wires I have, colour, number of, etc. There is a larger Red wire that probably goes to the computer and a yellow wire I havent seen under the dash. As I pull the wires gently apart out pops this. The cutters are just for show. I had not touched the wire at this stage. There was slight blackening on the other wires which confirms it had been arcing but not enough to burn through. I double checked for resistance using my long wire from the switch and also from the other side of the break back to the gizmo, all confirmed it was the guilty party. Fitted a new piece of wire, taped it up, put it all back together and IT WORKS :thumbsup :beerchug
Well done ROB glad we were able to assist you with the challenge.
Your a patient fella Rob, and on a Sunday morning and all!! Glad you got it sorted CPS
hey hey hey...it's now A-OK! :woohoo Rock on Rob! :drinkup Nice pic, as usual.
Glad to hear it was an easy fix. Slightly frustrating though, as many wiring problems can be. Holidays are over, back to work!
cred! what cred! Thanks guys. I know I was very very lucky to find it when and how I did. Hope my experience will help others in the future, but just as important have I regained a bit of credibility after my bulb fiasco :tong
i know its a bit late rob , but the best place to start with a case is a can of petrol and a box of matches lmao :avid the wiring on most of the case excavators iv drove is shocking , i even had a 580 g set on fire while i was driving it
Was that for insurance purposes :cool2
i did call the fitter and ask if he wanted me to try and put it out or throw some more fuel on it , by the time the fire truck turned up the tyres were just popping