recently upgraded to latest sv185 eh machine very similar to new holland l220 have been in industry 18 years owning many skidsteers including several bobcats and 7 or 8 new holland 160 170 175's this unit is a huge dissapointment patetic ground clearence terrible rear visability THE EH CONTROLS ARE A JOKE DEALER HAS DONE ALL UPDATES AND STILL MASSIVE LAG IN RESPONSE NO FEEL AND TOTAL LACK OF PRECISION CONTROL trying to turn machine on asphalt is near impossible and working unit on soft soil or sand just bogs in terrible alternator bracket broke off unit at 46 hours and the selling point of tilting cab is a joke that might let you acess a few hydraulic lines but any work on or around motor is near impossible digging ability is poor WONDERING OTHER OWNERS THINK
Why did you buy the machine if you think the way you do about them? Did you not do a demo? Strange, I have heard nothing but good about that machine around this end of town.
I have heard from several that case really screwed up a good thing with these new ones. To top it off the nh clones are supposedly worse then the pos they replaced. The cabs are nice, really give the m series a run for their money.
Wow , did you not look at the machine or demo one before you purchased it? Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Most people i have talked with have loved the new alpha series. As for the previous new holland machines being "pos" i own 3 2010 L175 machines and a c175. Our machines are used in some of the harshest environments and i have yet to have a single issue. Sure they arent the best machines in class , but for the price they cant be beat.
I am not sure how there can be a lag in response. They can be adjusted to the point of looking at the machine will cause it to move. Does yours have the latest EH updates that allow the machine to be adjusted by the operator? I dont have that machine but I am happy with my TR320 although its a tracked machine, I am happy with EH system. Its very responsive. Power is certainly not an issue. Is your dealer trying to help you out? If not get on the CASE website and send them an Email, they will respond to you. I have had a lot CASE skid steers and I really like the latest series. There are some things that could be improved but overall I am happy with it.
case sv 185 dissapointment i never said the previous new holland machines were pos i have owned 7 or 8 of them just a pity they stopped them and bought out these pathetic replacements unfortunately unlike in the us and north america where a dealer will bring a machine out for you to demo on site in real conditions usually in australia a demo consists of a few minutes in the dealers yard and if your lucky a pile of dirt to play with i have bought over a dozen new skidsteers and excavators and only ever had one site demo and then only for a few minutes
my unit has the latest updates it is the latest model and i have watched case install the updates yes it has the in cab adjustment however the machine is absolutely terrible to use massive lag and then when its sped up no precise control and nothing in between many experienced operators have tried to do precise final trim with this unit and all have said its the worst unit they have used as for backup weeks go by without response or follow up from dealer and when i finally spoke to some one at case australia they basically said thats how it is and thats it so much for product support i still think they should bring back the l170 new holland they were a great unit the eh controls ar not the only problem the machine can hardly turn on asphalt and just bogs in terrible in soft ground or sand ground clearence is a joke visability out back with that huge a--e end shocking maintainence axcess is impossible digging performance is a joke i have a ls170 with over 5000 hrs on it that will out dig unit and is far nicer to use
take it back to the workshop tell them to fix it and that u will not be picking it up until the problems are sorted out best way to get it done fast as most dealers hate clogging up the workshop with long projects that are meant to be short
the dealer has done all they can one of their mechanics even said he doubts if they will ever get the eh control system right i know case are having a lot of issues with the eh controls it does not seem right that they can put these units out there knowing the faults the terrible lack of response and communication from case over this unit is terribly dissapointing
If you know how bad case is and that there haveing a lot of issues with there eh controls Why did you buy one? Your whole thread sounds kinda fishy to me, LOL 10/4
lol How did you come to that conclusion on Mr Bobcat's thread?
1- Had i known of these problems before purchasing machine i would not have bought it when the unit was purchased last september i was unaware of these issues 2- Your reference to the thread being fishy I am simply sharing my experience as it has happened using this public forum so that others may be aware of my experience and hopefully get a resolution to it 3-i am not trying to change your opinion obviously you have found great support with what you do however my experience with this unit has been very dissapointing 4- Have a nice day
I'm not sure of your EH control issues, but there is something to be said for the lack of bucket/boom power. Depending on what serial number range you fall in, you may have a smaller diameter lift cylinder than the most recent machines. Because of the near-horizontal starting position of the boom lift cylinders, there have been complaints of poor boom lift performance at ground level. The original machines were fitted with a 2.25" diameter rod, with the newer machines being fitted with a larger 2.5" (I think these are close figures.....I can't remember the exact measurements...let's just say "bigger") diameter rod. We had a customer trade in a 40XT, and after running the SV185 for a few days, wanted his old machine back (Case guys will know that this is absurd, as 40XT's weren't exactly known to be brute-force machines). It doesn't have EH, just mechanical H-pattern controls. I haven't heard from him since we made the swap to the larger cylinders, so maybe we made some headway for him. Hope this helps.
I will admit in a wheeled machine the E/H controls are not right, even when 'tuning' them. The loader functions are great but the travel just doesn't have a 'center' if that makes sense? I would hope CNH is doing everything possible to get it right ASAP but also know others haven't had smooth sailing with the E/H. I have heard what JCBiron said about the lifting and it solved the problem. I do wonder why CNH doesn't have a smaller engine that can go in the small machines? I will say that back when the XT's came out I made fun of them and thought they were no good compared to the 1845's, once I ran one I never wanted to go back to a 1840/1845. The XT's did have some glitches and know the Alphas will have some as well but the rest of the machine is awesome, my gripe is more with the Tier 4 stuff.
hi stuvecorp and jcbiron thanks for your comments my unit has had the rams checked and measured and they are definately the larger type however the performane is still dissapointing if the unit is worked alongside our old ls170 new holland in identical conditions the old 170 outperforms it hands down
Having recently bought a new New Holland L220 w/ OTT I can't let the negative comments go about the Case & NH machines. Granted, I'm not a contractor, just a retired Civil Engineer who uses equipment on my property, including woods, so production is not a big issue, but before buying a I did a rigorous spec comparison & demo of a variety of machines. I chose the NH L220 as the best for me & as being the best in the 60 Hp medium-size class. Besides the NH 220, I considered a Case SV185, John Deere 318D, Cat 226B Series 3 & the CTL's JCB T150, Cat 247B Series 3, Terex/ASV PT-60, & Bobcat T550. For cab comfort/visibility & ease of access, the single boom, side-access JCB is way out in front, but JCB put a hold on production of the medium-size machines during my search to fix some unspecified problem. Of the rest, the NH L220 had the best cab, access & visibility by far. Since the Case SV185 is almost identical to the L220 (they are made in the same plant), it was my next choice, but the NH has better boom & bucket breakout specs due to bigger cylinders than the Case. The JD was third best in the cab area, but its specs were weak & I did not like the removable engine side panels. The Cat cabs were bare bones & tight & specs were not as good. The Terex/ASV cab is even worse. The Bobcat was OK, but I couldn't find one to demo, & the dealer couldn't take any orders for them yet. As for clearance, they all have about 7" to 8" clearance, except the Terex/ASV, where the clearance is about 12". You can help the clearance issue a little by opting for the larger 12x16.5 tires, or by putting on over-the-tire tracks. Since I work on wet ground, grass, snow & ice, I considered various over-the-tire tracks as well some tracked machines. If traction was the only issue, & grass wasn't involved, I would have gone for some steel OTT, like McLaren or equal. But since flotation & minimal damage was my issue I opted for rubber Trackmaster tread OTT's by Solideal/Camoplast. I'm quite happy with my NH L220 w/ rubber OTT. I can go where a wheeled skid steer wouldn't dare, I have reasonable traction on snow & ice, & ground damage is not too bad owing to the tread pattern & the resulting about 5 psi ground pressure. I've left my EH controls with their default sensitivity settings, & I don't have a problem. In the woods the machine is particularly maneuverable. I have found that the machine will tip before the hydraulics begin to give up. So, given your EH control & hydraulic complaints, I can only conclude that something is very wrong with your specific machine....or your expectations/requirements exceed the size of the machine you have. Just for your comparison, my NH L220 configuration is: - 2 speed, E-H controls - cab w/ heat, AC, radio, shoulder belt, keyless start - Air suspension fabric seat w/ heat - block heater - high flow hydraulics w/ on-off self leveling & glide ride - turn signals/hazard lights - inside rear view mirror kit - outside rear view mirrors (own design) - side light kit - 4-pt lift kit (to get front tie downs/rings)
Does the dealer have another 185 that you can run to compare? Some guys have a harder time adjusting to the EH. There are many CAT C series owners that would prefer to have their pilot controls back from the B series. I dont have that opinion of the CASE EH, some guys are not liking it however. However the lack of power must speak to other issues. I ran that machine in AZ before they released and pushed a fair amount of dirt with it and did not have any power issues (it was mechanical controls). If you cant counter rotate with the machine without it dogging out, it has an issue of some sort. This size machine is the industry best seller (Bobcat S185) CNH is serious I think about putting a machine in this class that can dominate its segment. You need to get your hands on another 185 and run it and see if that machine runs any better. My dealer has one in EH, I will run it tomorrow.
I totally agree with that. We own two Cat skids, a B series and a C series. I prefer to run the B series hands down. The EH controls just dont have the fine touch of the older style. It is annoying as crap trying to work around a building or in tight quarters with the EH machine. I think most have found that after a few days in the seat it does get better but not perfect. Im just guessing but it sounds like maybe you bought a little on the smaller side of the spec sheet or you have an isolated machine that has a ton of problems. As i have always heard from other guys, if there is a problem with a Case machine they will make it right. I would stay on top of them until they do. Nobody needs any bad press these days!
the size of the machine is the class we require a ls 170 new holoand is a similar size or if anything slightly smaller yet this unit will do anything we ask of it yet the case working in same conditions will not it seems that case in the us seem to care about customer support yet when i emailed case head office australia on monday all they did is refer it back to the dealer again my dealer is extremely frustrated over whole issue as well as me the lack of support or interest and the fact this has been going on since september last year since i bougt the unit new is the dissapointing thing i had hoped with a major name like case the support would be there but in my situation it has not been forthcoming
Has the dealer stopped trying to help you? Its the dealers responsibility to work toward a solution. If the dealer is saying were not going to do anything with it, it runs fine then in my view CASE needs to get involved and figure out a solution for the disconnect. I am sure CASE has product support people in Australia like they do here. That is who should be getting involved, but the dealer needs to start this process. Your post suggests that the dealer agrees with you? Does the dealer agree that the machines EH controls are not working right? Does the dealer agree that the machine bogs down easily suggesting there are other mechanical issues? Again I will ask, have you ran another 185 to compare?
hi ksss yes my dealer agrees with me regarding the issues with machine and as i have said has installed all the latest updates etc however we ar still no further in resolution my dealer is frustrated in the situation and has admitted there is a lot of eh issues with other units as well i have not been given the opportunity to drive another 185 once again i will say the lack of support or even communication from case is very dissapointing emailing case on monday just meant case forarded the email to my dealer to deal with which frustrated my dealer even more i have suggested that case or my dealer purchase this unit back i have not even asked for my full purcase price a s a buyback price however these suggestions have been ignored all of this has been ongoing since purchase in september i know in the us machine prices are far less but this unit without full cabin in australia was nearly $50000 which is a lot of money as is frustrating to have it not working properly
Aussie, what are your settings set at on your panel for your E/H ?
I was a Case skid-loader user for years . started with 1840 . then a 70 . good units. then we ordered a 450 and had so many problems with it that my salesmen said he would order me a new 450 series 2 to replace it . 3 years later after dealer could not fix all its problems and Case totally turning its back on dealer and myself . And it being at dealership months at a time they said take this sv 185 ( new with updates ) and use . in high speed no weight in bucket it would come to a complete stop when turning . my guys would not run it . i tried it . what a piece of JUNK !!! we have cats 279c and 262C s and the crews love them ! I am very satisfied with them . dealer finally payed me for the 450 series 2 and its still on there lot . case hanged them with cases Junk . alot of problems with these new models !!!
danny every possible combination on the control panel has been tried repeatedly thanks
We had an L220 for a few months before trading to Cat (traded two LS170s as well). I will completely agree with you on engine service. I do not see how anyone can think it is acceptable on those machine. Every other machine is much easier to work on. CNH leaves you no room at the sides due to new boom design which allows cab to flip. They also leave no room at the rear due to radiator which is much taller than previous models making engine much harder to reach. The access through the top is restricted due to the honeycomb panel only being able to open so far on vertical lift machines due to the cross bar. The boom still needs to be in the air to take advantage of the cab being flipped up since it flips forward. From underneath the cab the engine is still inaccessible due to the large muffler in the way. The fan blades broke off on ours and a relief valve was trashed within the first 150hrs. We didn't make it to 200hrs before trading it. One other big issue the guys had was with the bucket latch. It automatically latches so you have to make sure to hold it open when hooking up. This is hard to do. If you do not do it though, the latches like to move unexpectedly and it led to a lot of nervous operators. We only had a heated cab on ours and did not have EH controls. However it was not a nice cab compared to our C series Cat. Compared to the M series Bobcat, I think BC maybe has the win there too. In our experience the CNH cab was very noisy and very dirty. It was nowhere near as tight as the C series cab is. The air inlet for the cab sits right in a "collection" area for debris on the rear so filters would plug instantly. The door was not as nice to get in and out of due to their little window. I found myself somehow always turning the wiper on. I never figured out why their doors open backwards from everyone else either. Not that it matters much but for us its good because it forces to operator to get out a properly unhook the hoses and stow them away. The radio in the cab was an absolute joke as well. To overcome the noise of the loud hydraulics you had to run it a 30. When ran that high the speakers could not take it and would peak and crackle. The cab did have a lot of arm room and good visibility but I was very surprised at how much visibility the C series Cat had as well aside from the height of the rear and being able to see the plate. Run them on a dairy farm. A lot more issues with the L100 series than the LS series. Mostly engine and pump/drive related. We could not get our L220 to turn on pavement in 2spd either. All of our Cats do it at idle with no issue. The NH wanted nothing to do with it. At full song you could get it to think about it but you had to drive forward first. It does not sound like he knew how bad they were until he got one and then started seeing all of the issues others were having. Not everyone comes on the internet. Not many dealers will turn down a sale and tell you not to buy a certain machine. Enough times you cannot get a demo, or people buy on reputation. I know tons of Bobcat owners that buy new ones every year with no demo because they put their faith in that brand or it is the only brand that works for them. It would seem fishy due to him being new and only posting in here, however these issues are not new and happen to many people thats why it does not seem fishy to me. I would agree there. I think if we had all C series machines it would not be an issue. I get used to it pretty quick if I dont think about it. But the Bs are just so much quicker. They are working on yet another new calibration for the C series. They did an update to the D series controls and it received a lot of positive notes so they are working on a similar calibration for the C series. I will say or series 2 262C seems better than our older 262C You seem to have high hopes for customer service. From being on here it seems you have a good dealer and get good service through Case. This is not always the case with every brand though. I have been at my wits with Agco numerous times. The Dealer doesn't want to fight them for me, they just swallow the costs which I do not feel is fair to them. So I tried to contact Agco. They just revert your complaints to the dealer. My goal was to leave them out of it. I did talk to an Agco rep but he was good friends with the person who was an issue at the dealer so it was me versus buddy+buddy. You can see how that would end up. He was made because I complained about Agco's product and service on the internet (anonymously for their personal reputations benefits) and that people at Agco do read those posts and it made him look bad. He claimed he did everything in his power to help. Then after more discussion told me to go buy a John Deere. I have spoke with a couple other Reps since then who were decent to talk to but quickly because uninterested in my complaints/suggestions and left. There isn't always good service out there unfortuneatley.
I based my opinions of the case cab from trade shows. No real seat time in one I guess I really shouldn't give an opinion on the new cases.
I thought they were great until I ran one too. With the technologies others have in their cabs today, if it is quieter with the door off then its not a good cab.
Durally You have brought some of these issues up before, and most I disagree with, but we have gone over this before. I ran a 279C against the TR320. There was no way that the CAT cab is sealed better than the CASE cab at least in the example I ran which was a new 279. I never considered an M series BC. The machine did not run as well either. There is a shutter in the CAT EH that they cant seem to solve. I had zero hitches in the CASE EH. One year later, still no issues with it. I do believe that CASE will take of the situation. I have had good service from both CASE and my dealer, thats why I have owned so many CASE skid steers. I had one machine that was a POS and between CASE and the dealer they took the machine and I got a replacement. What I dont get how the dealer cant get the situation taken care of from CASE. Something doesnt flow with this entire problem but we are only going to hear this side of the problem so it is what it is. Hopefully the situation gets resolved to the satisfaction of the OP.
well this is quite the interesting thread... one of my buddies had a 90xt, 445, and liked them both. not the 445 as much. then bought an sv250 and hated it. then bought an sr200 with standard controls and loves it. obviously, i myself am not too impressed with the new case machines. but the specs on an sv185 are VERY different than an sr200. seems to me the sv185 was to compete directly with the bobcat s185, and the sr 200 is the machine to try to replace your 430/440. sounds like i need to spend more time in a pilot machine, cuz for the most part im happy with the eh controls on the jcb. i was not aware they haulted production on my size jcb. i suspect its because the boom bumps the cab from time to time. i love the jcb and it seems to be a great machine, they just gotta get the last bug outta it yet for it to be perfect.
hi dave the sv 185 was a replacement for a new holland l175 of which it is meant to directly compare with we have had 6 or 7 new holland l 160 170 175 macnines which have clocked up a combined total of at least 14000 hrs i am well aware of the capacity and performance of these units yet the sv 185 will not match this as for hand controls i have at least a couple of thousand hours experience with them on other units we also have terex a positrac pt50 turbo which is used every day this unit will also outperform my case sv185 also many other experienced operators have tried my case and have the same opinion thanks
Can you really say it is easy to work on the engine on a new vertical lift CNH machine? I am not playing brand favorites or haters but I honestly do not see how anyone in their right mind could think that they are easier to work on for every task than a Cat, JCB, Bobcat or Deere. I am not talking regular oil changes. I mean starters, alternators, belts, etc. Things that do wear out. I remember looking at the starter and alternator on our L220 and shaking my head. Maybe I am missing something, maybe you are not as brand nuetral as I thought, or maybe you don;t have to fix your machines, but that is the one thing I do not understand. The cab issue, to each their own. They can change from machine to machine. Maybe the A/C machines got a better cab. Maybe the EH machines were quieter. I dk. Do you have a new wheeled machine? If so which one. You seem to miss the concept of poor service. Re read my experience. With any company there will be bad service areas. One time it will be Cat, the next time Bobcat, the next time CNH. It's the way life goes. Sometimes it is so hard to try and fight and go above the dealer that it isn't worth it. That is why i stopped at the level I stopped at with Agco. It put the dealer in a hard spot and put our future with Agco in jeopardy. Ever hear the saying dont bite the hand that feeds you. The more you complain up the chain of command, the worse your life will be afterwards. Unless they fire the area rep, you will be stuck with one pissed off area rep that will not want to help you with any of your warranty claims, or issues outside of warranty. Personal feelings on their part should not contribute to the machines service, but in the real world that is not how it works. Then you have to go above them again. Do you know how easy it is to get ahold of people above the rep. Its not. I "aquired" a list of the contacts above him which are not available to the public. They do not answer their phones nor do they return phone calls. I am not saying every company is this way every time, but you need to understand we do not all live in the glory filled world you do. Given the number of machines you have I am sure they like you much better than m,any others as well. Many places treat bigger operators much better. Sometimes it is not worth it and you have to suck it up and get a different machine.
i spent some time in an l175, if an sv185 is less of a machine, they really must have screwed that one up
was it wrong for me to leave my bobcat dealer after 40 years and buy a different brand simply because i liked it better? i have noticed in the farming community people tend to take such things personally...
I myself had problems with my last Case purchase(tr320), I am also a small operator 10 peices of equipment or so everything Case except excavators, I've had my disagreements with Case, but they have always made everything better. In my eyes Case stands for Service. I have owned and still own 430's 440's, tr270, and tr320's my first skidsteer was a Case and my last probally will be to due to Service. I will mention this Case EH controls take some getting use to as there so much better then any other competitors.
That would be why the differing opinions may occur. For regular maintenance, strictly filters and fluids, the L220 was not terrible. The oil filter setup was a little screwy, but it was otherwise okay. The inline fuel filter was not easy to access either but the rest was. Our current partner who runs the 3 Bobcats at the other farm, had an L215 for 1000hrs. It wasn't well liked there either. The air filter was not easy to access they said and it had its share of issues. It was one of the very first ones though which I know had a lot of updates. He demoed a Cat but traded for an S130. I cannot remember what the L220 was like but our older new hollands had a lot of exposed grease zerks that would get smashed off. We built guards for many of them. I like and hate the recessed ones that the Cat's have. Our Volvo loader also has these. If I could find a plug to put in each one it may speed up greasing. I take the time to go around and pull the crap out of them first before greasing which takes a little while but on the flipside I don't have to spend time extracting broken zerks. The lower lift arm pin and lower "pivot arm" pin both have too small of a hole to fit in our large high pressure fittings. We went through Lincoln high pressure fittings every week until I found these 3 jaw ones from some other company for $12 each. They last a couple months. Its not a big deal, i just get those ones with the hand gun. I will say Cat putting the hydraulic tank fill under the rear of the cab was kind of annoying on the C series. They say you cannot fill the tank without tilting the cab. They reccommend topping off through the fill plug for the cooler. I use a pail pump with a gooseneck on it for filling the tanks on all of them. I can squeeze my fingers up in there and pop the cap off and stick the neck in without flipping the cab but it is tight. I think most of the machines are easy to do filters, fluids and greasing on. At least the ones I have been around. Some I have only seen opened up at trade shows which doesn't always give the best impression. I guess I maybe should change my opinion somewhat more towards yours as we plan to now rotate the fleet on a bi-annual basis which will keep all of the machines under warranty and low houred which should result in less need for the more involved repairs. I still do give it some thought though because there are still some things I will need to fix. A blown hose is not going to send me into Cat. I'm going to dig it out and make a new one in our shop. Saves time. However, when giving opinions to others, I think it is important both you, I and everyone else includes what their point of view is. Until this point I thought you were smoking crack or wearing case underwear by thinking the machine was easy to work on. Not everyone is buying new or trading often and gets stuck doing a lot of the repairs which is when that becomes more important. Damage protection is another big concern for my decisions. The Big ass on the CNH machines and the amount of flimsy components back there did cause issues for us in the short 280hr stint. A couple blows and everything was misaligned. Our Cat doors have some scratches in the rear door stickers, some paint rubbed off the rear bumper and the "pivot" arm, but the door is perfectly straight and closes like a dream. Our New Holland and Bobcat doors do not last long as they are the first line of defense. The new CNH machines recessed the door, but it is flush with no protrusions above or below it like our Cats have. In addition, the rear end is just too wide and meets its fair share of walls. Again though, my opinion and viewpoint comes from having not very good operators. We never will have a lot of good operators because skid steer operation is just a small portion of their jobs. If we had full time operators making union wage in them it may be a different story. I wonder if that is where some of the differences in opinions are coming from. Maybe the wheel machines are different. IIRC your machine also has a radial boom. The Super Boom has a lot of slop in it even new. We have never had one that didn't hit the cab after a short period of running it and this one was no exception. Again, this could be our environment. Our skid steers spend more time with side load on the bucket from scraping against curbs, or pushing up feed, than they do with lateral forces from digging and lifting. My experiences with CNH have been decent. My experiences are from the Ag sector mostly, but compared to my dealings with Deere and Agco CNH is not bad. I never had to deal with CNH construction much because we never had many new machines and the ones we did ran fine. My relatives did have to deal with them a lot with all of their L170 and L175 issues and for the most part CNH was decent. There have been some issues with them on some other products, but as a whole I'd rate them 3 out of 5. Nothing great, nothing bad. Deere was very bad to deal with. They just don't think anything can go wrong with any of their stuff. Agco is too disorganized with too much politics and too many egos in the way of just getting the job done. Volvo has been good to deal with but there again, we haven't had many issues. Cat has really surprised me with their involvement and help throughout or dealings with them. We dealt with that dealer in the past when we had one Cat wheel loader and it was a nightmare, we didn't matter. Now with only 3 skid steers from them, the service from the dealer and Cat themselves have been great. We had issues with our Poly doors not staying in. They didn't know why and hadn't had many other complaints with the newer style, but were quick and helpful with replacing them with glass. They listen to the ideas we have for improvements, and its been good overall. Claas is another company that has been just like that. They are involved with you the entire way. Their engineers sometimes get on some peoples nerves due to being German and having a natural tendancy to never be wrong (my family is all German too so I am used to it) but for the most part they are helpful. You go to their product meetings and its all about updates and new ideas for the machines. Most updates are free or cheap. When we went to the Deere meetings it was all about how awesome they were. Nothing about updates and they didn't listen to our problems, just said they will be fixed with the next new chopper (they told us this in 08, it is a prototype now and may be for sale in 2014). We traded to the Claas after 2.5 years with the Deere. They make the updates to the current and even non current machines. They don't make you buy a newer model. In my opinion, coming from my area and the way things are with dealers around here. Someone with more than 2 or 3 SSL's is an important purchaser to the dealers. I am not referring to national fleets, just bigger local operators. They have more pull and get treated better than the guy with one or two machines generally. Its natural.
Not sure who this was directed at but no. We left a lot of dealers for better products, not always better service. Agco has not been great to deal with but I would still buy Fendt's all day long because they are a better product. We didn't have many issues with our older New Hollands and when we decided to switch brands I was worried because our NH dealer had one of the best SSL mechanics I knew and he was on speed dial and always ready to fix it over the phone. But we liked the other machines better and the support ended up being just as good or better. Our NH dealer ended up not selling the line anymore due to conflicting interests in other areas of NH's line, so it didn't work out too bad. To me thats not a small operator. Compared to national fleets yes. But compared to others in your area it isn't. Unless I am the only one living in an area where it is common for hundreds of people to have one or two SSL's. I know they are more popular in the midwest but still.
I don't know if anyone is completely 'brand neutral'? All I know is my experience with what I'm running(Case and the little Polaris/ASV). The service as always been great but have not had any luck with the sales guys and run Case in spite of them. I would like to try a Case/NH E/H long term to see how they are. I do agree with Aussie point on demo's, tooling around at the dealer does not really give you a full experience with a machine. Some machines I've bought with the 'hope' it would work out and mostly they have thankfully. I hope things get taken care of for Aussie.
Aussie, Please tell me what your settings are set at ,at this time.
durallymax, do you know what it will cost per hour to trade bi-annual? I had posted this question while back and got no response. We dairy to and I really think that will be the cheapest cost of ownership. Just curious what you think it will cost per hour. sorry this doesn't really pertain to this thread.
I do not have a figure on that yet. Will known more when the time comes, have another year to go yet, they turn 1 year old in april.
Thought I would chime in here with an update.....our customer, after having his larger lift cylinders put on, is still very unhappy with the SV185, so much so that he is asking (not quite demanding....yet) that we take it back and give him something else. My main reason for posting this is to ask a question, to you guys, as owners/operators: If this machine is, in fact, performing to the best of its engineered ability, and there is nothing "wrong" with the machine, at what length do you think the dealer should go before placing the responsibility on the OEM (in this instance, Case) to come in and remedy the situation with the customer? Is it acceptable to ask the customer to pay for the hours used on the machine? (sorry, didn't mean to hi-jack the thread)
i have been asking for either case or the dealer to buy my unit back since i first got it new and discovered how pathetic it is i have been reasonable about it and am asking for 40k for it which is i feel i more then fair when i paid nearly 50k for it the point i find dissapointing is all my multiple attempts to speak directly to case or for them to call me go ignored the machine has been a major dissapointment all i want to do is get rid of it and move onto something else so i can get back to making money the unit can be dangerous to use with the eh controls in some situations there is no precise control yeasterday i had the mispleasure of having to use it to drill precision footing holes it is frustrating and bloody near impossible to get the auger to locate precisely when you want to edge forward a quarter of an inch when it will jump forward or back 2 inches at a time
it is the end user that pays for the machine to do the job he wants manufacturers have a responsibility to look after a customer if the unit wont perform or work right and hopefully if enough people and end users complain loudly enough make steps to rectify major design flaws it seems some people on this forum are suprised and perhaps dont belive my comments regarding my unit and experience with case however this is the situation and i am simply telling my experience
hi danny current settings are drive med 2 lift med 1 tilt med 1 control sub menu drv 3 loader 1 as stated earlier ALL POSSIBLE COMBINATIONS have been tried both by myself other operators and also case mechanics plus as stated earlier all the latest updates are installed
Maybe this is your first machine with E/H controls? I found at first my machine (tr-270 was agresive, I think the controls should be about the same as on your machine. I havent got too many hrs on my Case just yet, but I,m sure getting the hang of the new E/H controls, You maybe hanging on to the controls too tight, thats what I was doing, so I eased off from the grip and so far so good! I hope you get things worked out, but It could be just a learning curve.
danny as stated in earlier quotes both myself and the operators that have used this machine all have plenty of experience myself at least 15000 hrs on skid steers of that at least a cople of thousand with both eh and pilot another operstor around 5000 hrs on eh controls everyone that has tried to use it is highly experienced it is not just a matter of loosening my grip a skidsteer is expected to do precise work and my other units if i want to move a precise amount eg locating a auger or detail excavation especially aroung assets i expect machine to be able to do it if want to sneak forward 4 or 5 mm i expect it to do it not jump forward 50 mm or 2 inches like our unit thanks
I had a new 85XT that I bought in 99 and it was a POS. CASE, my dealer and I worked an arrangement to get me into a 95XT. I paid the depreciation on the hours I put on it. They worked the numbers on their end. I was happy with the deal and that is what is key, they kept a customer with that deal. I have gone on to buy more machines, so it was a cost that CASE and my dealer have recouped many times over I am sure. However, the dealer obviously cant absorb the entire cost of these types of situations on their own, Case needs to step up and participate, after all they built it.
It all depends on the issue. In this case, as aggravating as it is to the customer, it is somewhat the nature of the controls. Now if it is worse than any of the other SV185s and they can not get it to perform as well as another one they take to him, then I would say a deal should be worked to exchange one. As for the cost, it would depend on the case again. In this guys case it sounds like it has been prolonged and extremely aggravating. Then you need to meet his price closely. It doesn't sound like he put any hours on this machine and spent more hours dealing with it in the shop and trying to get ahold of people to make it work. In that case I would push CNH to help do an even swap. The depreciation costs that you and CNH absorb are compensation for the lost time and stress caused to the customer. Also makes you look good in the future. Now if it performs just like every other SV185 and the majority of people do not have issues. Then you have to re-evaluate the situation. It then becomes difficult to determine what is fair. The customer most likely will not be happy without a new machine for little cost, you on the other hand also have to protect yourself from loosing money over someone who may just have a personal preference issue with the machine. In that case I would offer them a price that helps to compensate you some for the depreciation hit on that machine. In some case though, the machine is engineered wrong. We had this with a baler this summer. For whatever reason nobody could get it to feed properly to make bales. The design of it seemed backwards to many people, but after repeated tries and fighting all summer it never did work. There were other machines in the area that had similar issues and were sent back. In that case you better give them their old machine plus a refund, or offer to buy back the new unit at a price you can agree on. Probably not going to be the price paid, but that would depend on the aggravation. We wasted thousands on custom baling expenses due to the baler never performing. In addition to that there was some lost crop and potential due to it not being able to operate. Add in the personal time wasted, aggravation, and overall lack of help from the OEM and I would settle for nothing less than the paid price, which is exactly what we did. If they want to complain, give them the custom baling bill and give them the choices, Go to court for this bill (more to prove you need to get your ass in gear and fix these things versus actually getting the money), accept our offer right now, give us an even trade back for the old machine and never sell us another machine again. We said here is the deal, old machine back and a refund. If you complain we will start adding part of the custom bill into the refund demanded and you will loose all business. By that point, it went through. We wanted to do it earlier in the season but they insisted they could get it running. This is a dealer we buy $250,000 tractors from which may have helped.
This is the problem I have right now in my situation.....the customer had a legitimate problem from the word go. Not only should his machine have had the larger cylinders on it, but it also had a relief valve not holding proper pressure, so it was really performing like a POS. We fixed the relief, and then installed the new cylinders, but to put it bluntly, I now think the guy just has a hard-on for this machine, even though the performance is much better than when we started. And now, the machine, in his eyes, isn't as responsive on the controls as his old machine (the SV is mechancial H pattern). I have tried to explain the difference in the way the linkage is made on the handles, but he thinks there is something wrong with the machine. I ultimately want the customer to be satisfied with his purchase, but have I met my obligation as a dealer by making the machine perform to its full potential, with it now being in Case's hands to pony up and eat some of the cost if I have to take the machine back and/or trade him out of it? Again, just wondering what you guys think as consumers.
an old saying comes to mind "the customer is always right ",,,,,,,,,,,he is unhappy and the best way in my opinion would be to releave him of this machine and replace with another, Better a happy customer than an angry ex customer
Drilling holes that need to be right on the money is a good test for any type of controls, Also if you run a string line for 100' and try to keep the bucket as close as possible without hitting the string is another good test for controls. Aussie, I think you said you tried another Case machine of the same and it did the same thing? (no fine control)? I would be back there and tell them to show you how they the dealer can put that auger point right on the nail, because you are right, skid steers are made to work with precision. If all the 185 cases are like yours and no experienced operator can operate it that they feel is right and correct, they should take it back. Is this dealer also a New Holland dealer?, if so a swap for your machine to the NH less the hrs that are on your machine for rental imo, would be fair.
You would loose your business if you let every customer walk all over you. You cannot make every customer happy. Sometimes it is best to just tell them" I am sorry we cannot meet your needs and expectations anymore, I feel it is best we part ways at this time before more issues arise". Maybe offer them a buyback deal if they want to go to a different brand and then your headaches are gone.
I will never say I like Cat's EH controls. Many days I still hate them, the only reason i tolerate them is due to how much nicer the rest of the machine is. However when drilling holes, I can hit the nail on the head without much effort. It takes some skill and patience to learn that the slower you operate EH controls, the faster they run though.
hi danny i have challenged the dealer to do precision work like stated but they also cant however this still has not helped get any response fron case unfortunately the dealer is just a case dealer and also new holland no longer make l160 170 or 175's they have the l218 220 etc they are virtunately identical to the case and have the same problems and design flaws
just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or comments on the new bobcat 500 series i believe the models are s550 and s570 we have nt seen them in australia yet but apparently they were released iin the us late last year thanks
I was wondering when you were going to ask about bobcats...Ok I'm gone fishen
What are his complaints about the machine? Maybe let him run another mechanical linkage machine to compare for himself. I think ultimately you try to do what you can to make the customer happy (goes without saying), if you believe that the customer has lost his ability to be objective and truely "has a hard on for this machine" then you (dealer)and or CASE have to decide the value of the relationship. Making him happy will cost some money (from both your dealership and CASE), how much I guess depends on what will make the customer happy. If a different 185 will make him happy, and you take his in as a used machine and resale it, that might be acceptable to all those concerned. Other options cost more money and become more difficult. I went from a 85XT to a 95XT and that was a considerably jump in price, but that was CASE's only option (other than putting a turbo on the 85XT from the beginning).