Hi folks. My Case 855D has a track issue I could use some advice on. I just went through a lot of the machine (engine, hydraulics, etc), and replaced the rearmost left side roller within 60 days. All seemed to be working great until a few days ago. I noticed some binding of the tracks and gouging of the left side sprocket, so (believeing it was the problem) I pulled the guard and cleaned up the sprocket. However when I ran the machine, the middle of the portion of the bottom of the left track is still sporadically pulling in hard towards the middle of the machine and binding things up. If I back up one track rotation, everything seems to fall back into place. I didn't want to run it that way, so I shut it down and lifted up the back. All rollers are turning OK on the left side (including the new rearmost one), but they are all getting pretty chewed up on the inside edge. I have no idea what the issue is. As stated, the very rearward left roller is new, and that seems to be where the problem starts. Here are some pics; any ideas?? As you can see from underneath, the middle two rollers seem to be pretty worn (compared to the end rollers).
I forgot to mention I rebuilt and hooked up my backhoe attachment since replacing the roller. I'm quite sure the added 4000 pounds is exacerbating the problem, whatever it may be....
The roller frame is fixed/ bolted, and the rollers are fixed to the frame with no adjustment. Only the sprocket shims and idler shims can change the lay of the track to the roller centering line up. I would check the depth wear on the other rollers and run a string down the inside flange to see how much wear you have from the new one. I would also use a long bar between the frame and sprocket to check for a possible final drive bearing on that axle, and also the front idler movement. The backhoe is heavy, and tends to make those light on the front like said. So I would keep it locked over center unless needed. That rock guard looks to have started the side pressure wear, may need to get it in some different material and watch if the slick shine goes away. Don't look like much mud or clay there to work with.
Thx SF. What am I looking for to investigate the final drive bearing; side to side play, or in/out? I'm pretty sure there is a good 1/2" difference between the new/old roller depth (but I WILL check). 2 or 3 new ones sure would be the easiest fix....
I would break the track and see how bad the pins and bushings are worn , as in side to side play , while its loose take a string and go from the edge of the sprocket to the same edge on the idler and see if there is an alignment issue. Check the bottom rollers for side play as well. You may have to measure from the other side to see if something is bent or out of line.
Thx DJ. Assuming something IS bent/out of line, what would it be and how would it be fixed?
On second review , I noticed there are no double flanged rollers on that side , or by the picture it appears to be no doubles. I wonder if this has something to do with this as well. I'm not a u/c expert by no means. I have done a lot of change out type work.
Almost sounds like the sprocket is shimmed too far out, will put pressure on the rail to the outside and force the center to bow in. I don't have any info on Case units so hopefully someone here has replaced sprockets and know the process to align.
The case machines use shims behind the sprocket to adjust the sprocket to the center of the rear roller, the idler side bars are used to adjust it to the center of the front roller, there is two wear bars and shims inside the track frame for the idler support slide, and four blocks and shims that the idler rests on behind the idler side bars that rides along the top of the frame. Your track looks like it has some snaking in the side rails, but it does not look like the roller flanges are riding the bosses. A good pic of the idler center where the track rides would help. On the top of the frame where the idler sets, front end side, with the track adjusted correct, how close is the idler brackets to the two bolts that hold the lower guide shims in place, Are the two bolts removed and the idler out past this. Yes looking to see if the pry bar can move the sprocket and axle bearing any, up down front to rear.
Thx DM; I haven't changed anything except the roller; didn't add any shims when we changed the sprockets back in 98.
I've got the factory service manual here, will have to read through it a bit tonight (we got 4" of rain last night; busy day). I'm leaning towards replacing the two middle rollers where the track starts snaking towards the middle. Don't know if its worth taking a $200 chance that will fix the problem (although I KNOW they all need replacing anyway)....
With it jacked up like that , I wonder how much side to side movement the rails have , the pins and bushings could be shot.
Not according to all the postings on my other thread ("rehabbing case 855d"), but I guess you never know. We have been getting record rainfall here in AZ for last week or so; hoping tomm its dry enough to take my service manual out and lift the machine up for a look-see. Need to get it going for a backhoe job next week; might have to just run it VERY carefully as-is....
OK, we had enough of a letup in the rain for me to get the machine up in the air. I ran the tracks with the weight off, and they seemed perfectly normal. I put a bar between the frame & left rear sprocket, but couldn't detect one iota of movement in the bearing. I DID notice a big difference (at least 1/4-1/2") between the new and old rollers. Wondering if replacing a couple more would keep the track straight? I also noticed the left track rides further away from the sprocket than on the right (see pics). Any ideas?
My be completely off base but my Allis has a in and out to the lower rollers, there is a subtle difference to the offset could there be a similar issue here? Could the new rollers be of a different than Original design and installed essentially reversed?
From the pictures I think you just need to replace the next two rollers and tighten the tracks up a bit. If you put a straight edge across the bottom rollers where the rail runs you will find the two middle flanges are at the height of where the rails run on the others, the new roller created a bridge affect.
That's actually a really good idea D; starting to wonder that myself. I guess reversing it would be the cheapest attempt at a solution. Its an aftermarket roller, and the printing on the originals is a bit different.
Thx OW; I have been thinking that all along in this thread (given the difference in wear). Maybe I'll double-check the direction of the new one and replace the next two. I contacted Case, and they say they can only get 1 roller from vintage parts. Anyone know a good source for these?
Ok guys, here's a great pic that shows exactly what the track is doing; i.e. sucking towards the center of the machine at or after the new roller. At this point, the sprocket is having a hard time engaging the chain (& that's what binds it up). Backing up a bit seems to clear it. I tightened up the tracks some to see if it would help (seemed to for a bit). This only seems to happen on very hard turns....
Looking at this picture as well as the previous ones , it kind of looks like the flange on your center three rollers is worn on the inside. I am pretty sure you should have a single flange followed by a double , single , double then single. Can you get a pic of the side of the rollers and how far the rail sits inside of it? Something is going on because the pin boss is hitting somewhere.
I think you are right on the wear DJ; I took the plunge and ordered two more new rollers today before a job I have coming up on Tuesday. According to my parts manual, they are all the same (Case part#R24100), the middle ones are just worn beyond recognition. It looks like the 2nd one from the back (right after the new one) is EXTREMELY worn and allowing it to jump to the middle. I think they ALL had that inner flange at one time...
Yair . . . viking1 . There looks to be a considerable difference in the diameter of the rollers and it seems your problem is caused by the flange of that new roller running on the inside of the rail . . . you can see the chew marks on the outside of the flange. Looks like a new set of rollers could solve the problem and as Dickjr mentions standard practice is to have a single flange next to the idler and sprocket and the rest doubles. I understand it is no longer industry practice to rebuild roller shells with weld metal but it used to be the norm and we did it all the time. No need to dismantle rollers if the bearings and seals are good, just set them up in a drum of water and keep turning as you weld them to suck away the heat. There is no need for any machining or grinding provided you go to some trouble to keep the build up even . . . they soon wear off any high spots. Cheers.
Thx Scrub, I noticed that wear too. I can only afford 2 at this point; hoping it will keep the rails straight. Wondering if maybe I should skip a roller (i.e. new one, old one, etc)? There isn't a single flange available, and Case said they were all the R24100 part# (double flange). Don't know if that's right or not, but that's also what the parts manual shows. Who does weld rebuilding like that? Never heard of it....
I'd put the new ones all together. Rewelds are better for larger tractors I think.
OK, but I only have three new on one side; have to go with the two best used ones. I'm just wondering if I should install the two new ones every other roller. That would give me (back to front) "new, old, new, old new, old"......
Yair . . . viking1 . You got me slewed. The new roller you fitted is a single flange . . . do mean that was the last one in stock and no more are available? There used to be various companies who specialised in rebuilding rollers, idlers and track-chains. As I mentioned it is not done any more but it is a very simple process to do it yourself on rollers and idlers . . . you don't even need to split the chains to do idlers if you use wire feed or GP rods. For rollers I use iron powder rods which are relatively cheap if you shop around . . . depends on how much you value your time versus buying new ones. Cheers.
Uhh, Scrub, are you sure the new roller is single flanged?
Scrubs; in the last pic above the new roller is the rearward most and double flanged (Mitch504 is right). According to both my service & parts manual (and Case themselves), they ALL are the double-flanged #R24100 rollers. The new one has just been getting a little **** up because of the binding......
Yair . . . Sorry fellers, it must be my eyes . . . to me that roller does not look like this ......... Cheers.
It does to me:beatsme and usually I'm the blindest guy in the room :drinkup
Hahaha, me too!! Don't worry about your eyes Scrubs; the inner flange is pretty damaged from the track binding (which hopefully wont happen with the 2 new rollers). Here's a larger picture that might help. As you can see, that second roller has almost ZERO flange left on either side......
If your old roller is still tight to the bearings and seals, you can try your hand at welding it up, take a drum of water, put a plate of steel over it with a rectangular hole in it for roller to sit in on bolting flanges, weld roller and spin into drum of water. My uncle has one with small tire and gear reducer to drive it, just lay your hands on plate and squeeze the trigger.
The new roller looks like a single to me , I've only had half a beer. I even zoomed in and it still looks to be a single. If Case says it calls for all doubles , never heard of that either. I have heard of people using all doubles for hillsides. This is perplexing me and its Friday.
I'm going to try that one on the two rollers I replace OW (although the 2nd from the back looks pretty thrashed). It sounds like I'll be burning through a whole spool of wire....
I can see where you'd think that DJ; its BEYOND worn. I ran the machine for too long before I realized the back roller (since replaced) had lost its bearings. It was just flopping around back there putting all the wear on the 2nd one you think is a single. I guess the manuals and dealer could be wrong (stranger things have happened)....