Engine ran away, and I need to get it off site. How do I get the wheels to roll? It's cat 236d
Post your machine serial number. I don't know if those are equipped with tow valves or not.
Serial number BGZ01035
No official documented way. Pick it up or drag it.
I was afraid of that answer.
Anyone have any idea how much pressure is needed to release the parking brake? Could I use air pressure, or could I plumb auxiliary remotes from another machine? Just weighing out my options. This is not going to be an easy recovery if I have to drag it out.
You need about 400psi to release the brakes. Not only that, you would need to open the hydraulic drive loops.
You could always cut the chains. But, then it can roll away.
Here is a search of the word "towing" in the titles. Not many solutions in this search, but it certainly highlights what damage you can cause when towing a skid steer. HeavyEquipmentForums Brainstorming a bit here ... as heymccall points out, removing the drive chains should allow you to roll the machine. As per the diagram above, by loosening the nuts (#5), does that not allow you to slide the axle assembly (#6), to create enough slack in the drive chains to slip the chains off of the drive motor sprockets? Or is there a connector link in the chains ... which may or may not be accessible?? Hence, if not accessible, you would have to cut the chains ?? Perhaps a call to your local CAT service department is in order for advice on towing?
I was able to get it moved into my shop, I now need to do some testing. Can some one please post what adapter is needed for commpression testing via glow plug hole?
Check the thread pitch of your glow plug.. Harbor Freight sells a glow plug compression kit.. I think they list the thread pitch on their web site.
So I got the machine moved, I removed Charge pipes and exhaust. Suspect turbo failure due to the excessive turbine play. Decent amount of oil in the charge pipe. However it still won't start. It fires but it feels like it's got a dead cylinder and stalls out after the key is released. Preformed commpression test and I have good compression on all four cylinders. It will start and run on starting fluid. So it looks like I have a fuel delivery issue. The low side pump runs and you can see fuel circulation in the filter. Any advice on how to isolate components on the high pressure side?
Gotta know what fuel system u got. (Pump type)
It has a denso fuel system
They make 4 different types of fuel systems.. Get a pic.
From the parts book.
Not sure what part of it you need to see?
I’ve never worked on a Denso hi pressure common rail pump, sorry.
U could check for fuel going into the pump..?? Don’t know which line to check tho..
So the engine ran for about 1 minute after the key was shut off, is there any way the injectors could continue to fire? Or am I dealing with a failed turbo and a fuel supply issue? Seems unlikely to have two issues at the same time?
Do you have access to Cat ET? If not, can you read the diagnostic codes off of the monitor? Prob going to need ET to see what the output of the HPCR pump is during cranking. Do you know what RPM the engine was turning when it “ran away”?
In do not have ET. The engine was turning around 3000-3500. When this occurred there was a squealing/screeching noise and it billowed black smoke out the exhaust my thought was it died because it plugged the DPF. As far as codes go, the only one it set was engine horsepower over specification (something along those lines). The key was turned off within 10 seconds of this and it continued to run for about a minute and then slowly shut down. It ran perfectly smooth the whole time.
Not E459-2 by any chance was it.?
That's the one!
I’ll send you some information on a PM but it will be tomorrow before I can do it.
Thank you!
Ok so I found that it will start and run if I cap the fuel supply to cyl #1. Doesn't set any codes, but it won't throttle up. It will only run at about 700 rpms. Hooked #1 back up and plugged the remaining cylinders. It wouldn't start with cyl#4 capped. With cylinders 2 and 3 capped I got the same results. Started and ran, but no throttle response. It appears the pump is weak. So I have a couple questions. Is it possible the ECM could continue to fire the injectors with the key off? Just trying to figure out why this thing ran away,. There's definitely some oil coming out of turbo and the turbine is loose. Just seems so unlikely to have a turbo and a fuel system failure? Thoughts........ How does the ECM control injection pump pressure, Is it duty cycling the regulator on the pump?
Those symptoms would appear to point to a major issue in the HP fuel system although it is strange there are no Codes generated.
It doesn't add up, but I agree. How does the ECM control injection pump output? Id like to verify ECM has control before hanging a HP pump on it.
Here is some relevant information along with testing procedures. I'm not sure how successful you'll be without CAT ET but you can do some measurements.
Another
Try this for fuel system, first one was incomplete
I’m confused.. is the injection pump a hi pressure CR pump w electronic injectors.?? Or the small PFR pump w mechanical injectors.?
It's a high pressure common rail pump with electronic injectors
Ok thnx
Is there a spec for for return rates for injection pump and injectors?
I cannot locate that spec in SIS. In my opinion, you really need to get ET hooked to this machine so you can see what’s actually going on. Have you pulled the intake hose off to see if you had engine oil there? I don’t know of any delayed shut-down options on this machine so I would think the injectors would shut down as soon as keyswitch power was off to the ECM.
I agree, ET would simplify things. However my closest dealer is over 100 miles away, and a service call starts at 1000$. If I can verify the ECM inputs to injection pump, I am comfortable putting a pump on it. There was oil in the charge pipe and the turbine is loose in the compressor housing. So it's getting a turbo. DPF Is plugged and will either get cleaned or replaced.
. I missed this bit, this is what I needed to know. I'll hook my scope onto the SCV and check duty cycle from ECM and amplitude of the SCV
What did you ever figure out with this machine? I have a 236d and pretty much having the same issue as you. But mine started shortly after I had the dpf filter cleared
did your engine run away as well.? Do you have any Diagnostic Codes.? Also need a Serial Number. Too many possibilities to start guessing.
It did run away. No codes at all.
Just a guess. . . Did you have Dpf excessive regen issues? Could be your turbo was on the way out, and oil consumption was plugging Dpf. Now bad enough that enough oil from turbo going into intake to run engine on oil only. Will do it again if you can get it running, especially once it warms up and try to build boost. Also check oil level, a leaking HP Fuel pump can raise oil level enough to cause similar runaway. (Don't ask how I know)
I guess I haven't ran it enough to have it Regen. I think after the filter was cleaned I don't think I have put 10 hrs on the machine. I had oil coming out of the exhaust after changing the fuel filter. Nothing was wrong just had a little miss at idle so figured it was a bad fuel filter. Then it ran away. Had oil coming out of the exhaust then had the turbo rebuilt. Guy that did that said it didn't have any issues. Put the turbo back on started it ran kinda rough for about a minute so I went to shut it off and it ran away again
Have you checked the oil level in engine yet? Does the engine oil have diesel fuel smell to it?
It's just under full. I guess I'll have to check it to see if it smells
I checked the oil level and it's just under full. I guess it smells but idk if it's fuel in the oil or not
If you can't smell anything then I suggest to pull a sample and have it analyzed. Your local Cat dealer will sell a kit for about $35. That includes everything you need including the cost of the analysis included in the price of the kit.
So just a update with my issue. I wound up taking the machine to the cat dealer. The took the head off and say it has some scoring and keep saying I just need to buy a new engine from them. They say these engines aren't rebuildable and want me to buy a $14k engine from them
Are rebuildable. But complete job (including diagnosis, r&r, etc) will be in that ballpark. On a side note, I've seen more than a few engines where the root problem can be repaired, but dealer says needs anew engine. Not that they're trying to take you on a ride, they simply don't train to diagnose and repair.
Yeah I figured they were just telling me that to try and get more money or something. Bad thing is I was told a week ago from the shop manager and still nothing. I talked to a parts guy the other day. Pretty much buying a cat or being a small guy and not a big company doesn't help around me anyway. I was hoping to get the machine running and get rid of it. Just seems like one thing after another with it
If u tell them u just need it to run because you’re going to sell it, it might make a difference.. They’re just thinking “long term”.. with warranty issues..
The thing is that stripping and rebuilding an engine is time-consuming. When the dealer's labour charge is North of $100/hr the cost to strip and rebuild an engine is significant even before coming to the issue of the cost of the necessary parts. To R&I an engine is maybe say 8 hours work for a mechanic. That makes the replacement engine a more cost-effective way of doing things from the customer's point of view. If the machine owner is doing all the labour, effectively at no cost because it's his own time, that makes the calculation of the cost-effectiveness of "repair vs replace" very different.
Ok I'll try that
I'm sure it's not worth much but any idea what I could sell the skidsteer for with the bad motor in it? It has just over 4k hours