Hi Guys Trying to help my son diagnose a 2015 CAT 259D with 2092 hrs, serial FTL03587. Initial symptom was no crank due to low battery, jump started and ran all day. Drove it onto trailer and off trailer into the shop and next start attempt was a no crank with the E459-2 code. Charged battery , checked a number of grounds, checked fuses and still no crank with E459-2. Looked over the couple of posts on the site and will check the engine grounds and diode harness at rear. Found a power block inside engine compartment left side forward of fuel filter with a B+ lead from battery and a couple of 50A fuses that looks very corroded but i was able to read battery voltage on the posts of the power block. Was going to try and clean up the interface but worried if I try to break the nuts free the studs may break due to corrosion. No schematic and unfamiliarity with CAT component locations is really hampering the troubleshooting. Wondering if a Engine ECM or Machine ECM power relay is not engaging preventing CAN bus traffic between ECM's? Anyone know how I can find an electrical schematic for this machine please? Thanks in advance. Tony
Went back to the machine after dinner for more diagnosis. It will crank if the lap bars are down - so its really a Crank - No Start. Same error message displayed E459-2. Found a fuse box under the cab and measured voltages present with the key off. Not sure what the rectangular devices are with the two pin connectors - maybe solid state relays? Thanks
This is one I haven't come across before - Engine Power Mismatch. Not sure how that one occurs without something being amiss in the EPROM side of the ECM. That P/N of ECM is used on a number of different models and needs corresponding software installed in it to provide the "machine identity". I'll send you an electrical schematic.
First for me also. Found this... "At start-up, the machine ECM requests the engine ECM for the engine power rating by CAN communication. If the machine ECM does not receive a response, the E459-2 code will become active. In this situation, Cat ET will also not be able to connect to the engine ECM. This scenario is the most common occurrence of the E459-2" I'd say you're probably on the money. Bad earth strap, bad power or gnd to engine ECM, need to check all harness grounds on the engine block, CAN wiring, etc
G'day Chrisso. Can I ask where or how you found that explanantion.? (Still on a learning process with SIS2.0.)
Just PM'd ya Nige, but basically... It's in a TIB so depends on access level I guess
Thanks Nige & Chrisso. Back to the machine with voltmeter and schematics.
Good Day Just wanted to clarify the symptom which was actually a Crank - No Start with a Faulted indication in the Advanced Display and error E459-2. Checked for power to engine ECM and found no voltage on the ECM Power Relay Output contact #87. 20A fuse was good checked for power at ECM Pwr Rly coil pin 1 and Machine ECM was providing 12v to pin 1. Determined that ECM Pwr Rly Coil pin 2 was not being grounded by Engine ECM. Traced pin 2 circuit (C903-C59-BU18) up to Conn 4 (Round 31 pin) at rear of cab. Continuity was good to the input side of connector. found open circuit from output side of Conn4 to engine bay Conn 28 (12 pin ) Unable to determine where exactly the open was as this is poor access to that area of the engine bay - was unable to remove ECM cover due to hoses in the way. Built a test jumper harness to ground pin 2 of the ECM Pwr Relay coil for test purposes. When coil pin 2 was grounded a click was heard which was relay engaging and voltage was present at relay output to Engine ECM. Turned key on, advanced display initialized, entered access code, no fault displayed, turned key to crank engine - engine cranked and started. No errors displayed. Root Cause of concern was an open in ECM Relay Coil ground circuit (C903-C37-BU18) somewhere between Conn4 and ECM Conn J1. This prevented communication between the Engine ECM and Machine ECM setting the E459-2 fault. Special thanks to Nige and Chrisso for their input in helping identify the root cause.
I'm getting the same error with my 259D FTL13797. I will check ground straps as recommended, but I am expecting I will be down the same path has acolar. Nige and Chrisso, would it be possible to get the electrical schematics for this machine? TIA
Acolar, Did you ever identify where and what caused the wire to fail? Rubbing harness? Fatigue? Thanks. Nice job on the diagnosis above. I think I am boat.
Check your messages.
This is the same problem I am dealing with on my skid steer. Can anyone provide a link to the electrical schematic?
I'll send you one. Check your messages. Also do a forum search for E459. It should throw up pretty much everything that has been discussed in the past, from engine ground cable connections to broken wires in engine wiring harnesses.
Hey Chickenpik, I have not had time to dig through mine yet. I believe I have a short in my engine harness. The majority of the harness is at the front of the engine compartment. I'm impressed that Acolar was able to ohm out to the engine ECM. Mine has been intermittent, first I thought wiggling was getting the connection to make, but that's not working. I'm going to wash it down, pull the Coolant tubes, check grounds. If nothing is obvious there, pull the engine harness and look for obvious damage. If I don't find anything, plan to replace the engine harness. Will make sure I update the group if I find anything. Good Luck.
guys can some one share with me a schematic wire diagram for ECM , I'm having same issue
You’re on the right path with the E459-2 code issue . Since the machine cranks with the lap bars down , the problem likely lies in the communication between ECMs, which could be due to wiring or grounding issues. Checking all grounds and ensuring secure connections should be a good next step.
guys i have question for you , when you have this issue, are you able to communicate with ET software? also are you able to start the engine and make it run while having this issue.
If you have an active E459 Event present the engine will not start. That’s a given. When you say “communicate with ET” do you mean does ET recognise all the ECMs on the machine.?
Yes I meant when you have active e459 does the Et software read all 3 ECMs ?
I don't think it is necessarily the case, but turning it round the other way if you have no communication with the Engine ECM over the CAN I would bet that the Machine ECM will pop up an E459 Event. The below from the System Operation......... "When the electrical systems are initially powered up, the Machine ECM requests the Engine ECM for the engine power rating via CAN. If the machine ECM does not receive a response, the E459-2 code will become active. In this situation, Cat ET will also not be able to connect to the engine ECM." That sounds exactly what you are up against.
Hey there. I have a 2018 299d2 and engine code 459 but the motor starts up but starts to miss fire at 1400rpm. Have you ran into this before
Nope mine never runs
Have you tried the simplest known fix.? Remove, clean, & refit the engine ground strap making sure the hardware is tight. One end of it is up behind the HP fuel pump, circled below. Don't just disconnect that end, do both.
could some one help me out with the electrical schematic i am having the same error E459 c0de
Do you have et cat software , from my experience the best way is to see if there is any communication between et software and the ECM engine , if no communication probably the ECM is dead. If there is a communication then everything will be easy liking wiring or ground issue
Unlikely in my opinion. The most common cause for an E459 Event (after a bad ground) is a break in either the CAN+ or CAN- wires of the engine harness. I can't think of a single case here on the forum where the result of data-driven diagnosis rather than firing the parts cannon has been anything other than a bad ground connection or a bad engine harness. Someone could if you supplied a machine Serial Number...........
I had the same problem on a 289D several months ago. I posted where I found the broken earth wire for the ECM relay then. I'm not sure how to look it up now.
Is this the thread you were referring to.? HeavyEquipmentForums
Yes.
This is the same problem I am dealing with on my skid steer. Can anyone provide a link to the electrical schematic?
There are many different schematics. Post a Serial Number to identify the correct one for your particular mahcine. Also do a search on the forum using E459 as the search term. It wil lthrow up many threads, all of which may help you. My advice is start with the basics and make sure ALL the grounds are good. Depending on model there could be a dozen of them scattered about the machine.
Fd203650
299d2
Electrical schematic on its way to your imessage inbox. Before you go digging too deep I would suggest to do some research. It will pay you in the long run and will possibly save you a nunch of time.
I'm having the same issue with my 259 was intermittent and now it will not crank I'm getting the E459-2 code I could use a wiring diagram machine serial is 259DHFTL08699.
Check your message inbox.
I am having the same issue with a 279d3. The relay for the engine ecu is not energizing. Could i get the wire schematics?
I’m having same issues with my 2019 259D called cat out once , and brought it to them once it’s intermittent guy that came out said he reseated plug to Ecu and had it running the very next time I went to use it it threw same code and wouldn’t crank I removed batter put good charge unseated computer plugs and reseated got it to crank but was rough loaded on trailer while it was running and brought it to cat shop they had it for a week or two they changed fuel filter to solve running rough and then changed main power relay And ran it for a day no issues then brought it home only used on driveway a little then I used auger on it put a pole up parked for lunch and it wouldn’t crank again after that check and cleaned all the physical grounds I know of changed engine wiring harness guess I need to check power to the Ecu But need a wiring schematic I was wondering if someone could share one with me? CAT0259DAFTL23653
Based on those symptoms I’d say it is highly likely that you have a problem with failing wire(s) in the engine wiring harness, most likely the CAN+ or CAN- Someone else is going to have to ship you an electrical schematic because my computer is dead at the moment
Thanks , I actually changed the whole engine wiring harness this past weekend and it’s still not working Considering buying a new Ecu and trying it but there not cheap that’s for sure But I need to check to see if existing Ecu is getting power to it before I go thru that expense I’m just not sure which plugs or pins to check
Will try to post one for him later . Just got it. Nige sent to me a while back. Simon C
Need to use the 5 amp bulb trick to prove a wire is strong enough to carry the load from one end to another. OHM meter test will only tell you that you are on the wire, tells nothing about the strength of the wire to carry clean power. Simon C
Just wanted you to know that a guy named Acolar had the E459-2 Code and after doing checking of harness found the ECM Power Relay Control Side Ground Return by C903-C59BU18 that goes through some connections Such as Conn#4 Pin#27 Through Connector#32 to go to the Engine ECM Relay Coil Negative was not up to snuff. Best to test with the negative Battery Cable disconnected, computer plugs disconnected and a 5 amp bulb hooked up to pin number 23 to the other end at ECM Power Relay Ground wire hooked up to battery Ground. That is the best way to test if the wire has sufficient strength to do the job. You could test quite a few wires in a day if you were careful and know what is what or at least know these wires are load tested okay. Simon C
Thank you very much that will help a lot trying to get more familiar with how it’s wired and I could very well have same issue as he did ,the Cat shop changed the main power relay when they had it last time thinking that was it I’m gonna look and find his post also , I’ve been trying to figure out where to start and getting more familiar with the schematic
I use a 9003 automotive bulb with a pigtail to hook up Battery power to it , ( it uses 5.0 amps from the Red to Black wires of the pigtail ) and out of it into the wire being tested. The other end of whatever wire is being tested goes to battery ground. Always disconnect your battery first and take a picture of the ECM with your phone so you can see the colour of the wires beside the one you want to test. It is easier to figure out which pin is what on a 70 pin connection. That is my simpler way to do it as well as taking pictures of other connectors that you want to test up to or through. Good idea to take pictures from the schematic of the location of all the Connectors that you will be working on for location so that you don't send yourself on a wild goose chase. Just a few tricks to save time . Simon C
A link to that thread…… CAT 259D - No Crank E459-2 Code Hi Guys Trying to help my son diagnose a 2015 CAT 259D with 2092 hrs, serial FTL03587. Initial symptom was no crank due to low battery, jump started and ran all day. Drove it onto trailer and off trailer into the shop and next start attempt was a no crank with the E459-2 code. Charged battery ... HeavyEquipmentForums
I just had the e459-2 code pop up on my 2015 299D serial # CAT0299DJGTC01723 I hooked up cat ET and Cat ET does not find the ECM. Does anyone have the Electrical Schematic they can send me? I will start checking all the known failures in all the e459-2 threads. Thanks for the help!!
Judging by the fact that ET cannot see the engine ECM a broken wire in the engine wiring harness is the most likely cause. However this should not divert you from initially checking all the basics such as ground connections, especially the engine ground. See the post just above where I linked a thread by @acolar Check your message inbox in an hour or so for an electrical schematic.
Thank you Nige. I started inspecting wires and looking for any possible problems. Behind the cab on the (8) Control GP Machine ECM i found some rubbed wires. They were making contact with a hydraulic hose and were rubbed through. The wires have been identified as: CAN HI-F711-C205 YL- 18 CAN LOW- F712-C209 GN- 18 and 2A on/off drvr rtn 1 -H807-C32-YL16 I am leaning towards the frayed can-bus wires as the problem. However, this problem hasn't been intermittent....it just all of a sudden happened. I am not super familiar with repairing canbus wires...but i am guessing this may be enough to kill the can bus signal. I tried to temporarily tape them and see if it would not cause the e459-2 fault...but that did not work. Anyone have experience with this?
Update: no power to ECM. There is a relay behind the cab. When power is keyed on, it is supposed to send power to the ECM. There are 2 fuses on the relay, those both tested good. The relay is not sending keyed power to ECM. I am glad i found the other wires, those would have been a problem in the near future. I will order a relay, install and update. Hopefully this is it. Here is a picture of the relay location on the machine and in the schematic. Hope this helps someone else.
Someone else had the exact same location for the problem causing the E459-2 code and a fuse was blown in that location. Might be an idea to clean up all the connections in that area after you disconnect Battery Negative first. Simon C
Update: Not fixed... Relay was actually good. I put in the new one and it didn't solve the problem...fully bench tested the old one and it worked. I can get power to the ECM by grounding wire c903-59 to a good ground. The relay will click and it will take away the e459-2 with crank/no start...and give an erractic communication error with no crank condition. I guess the ecu coil relay knows something isn't right even though the ECM gets the power I ran a new ground from CONN 5 at wire C903-C37 to both C903-59 and C903-51 to bypass any possible break or short in that harness. That did not change anything. Now I am prepared to check between engine ECM and CONN 5. I got the cover off the engine ecu and was able to access the ECM...haven't noticed any visible problems. ECM connectors were both connected properly to ECM. I have checked fuses and cleaned the grounds behind the cab and in the engine bay/on engine. When i look at the two large connectors that connect to the ecm, i don't see any numbers like on the other connectors to tell what pin is where. Is there a pinout diagram for these? Any advice on what to check next or how to test further?
So if you look on the interactive schematic on Volume #2 Location G16 is the Engine ECM. There is 80 pins total and pin number 1 is Battery Positive. All the colours are listed for all the pins that are used.---- Pin #36-40 is 5 in a row as an example. If you take a picture with your phone of the computer when you get to the machine you can look at how the plug is configured and for example if it is in 2 rows of 40 openings and you see the 5 in a row with the correct colours on them as on the schematic you can then know which end is 1 versus the other end. The best way is to print off the picture or use your phone to help out. Hope this gives you an idea of how to figure out the pins if not labeled. Simon C
The engine ECM is apparently a Kubota product so I may be wrong but I recall the Pin numbers being marked on the ECM. Therefore the connector(s) would need to be removed in order to see them.
I had same issue checked wires actually changed the whole engine wiring harness which didn’t change anything but was expensive then bringing to my dealer ended up buying a new ecu off eBay I connected it and my machine was able to crank and operate but still had the go mismatch code I brought it up to dealer had it flashed with correct serial number then code went away so I suppose my ECU was bad
The Kubota engine ECMs are not known for being either robust or reliable. However it would be a shame to replace an ECM when all along the harness was the cause.
Did you investigate the Arc Suppressor that is in that same circuit, even if only to rule it out.? Also note that C903 connects to not one but two pins (Pin 3 and Pin 23) of the Engine ECM. I have no idea why. Maybe try unpinning both of those wires from the ECM connector and then connect one or other to a good ground. See what that does.
I was able to check the wires from the ECU harness pin 3 and 23 all the way up to the end of the line at the relay and the arc suppressor...alss checked in between at CONN 5. I checked continuity and it was there....so i ran 12volts through the wire and checked with multi meter and also had the 12 volts. Then I powered up a 12v automotive bulb through the line and the and it was bright. I checked it from both pins in the ECU harness-#3 and #23. The connections and wiring seems to be good all the way through. I did have the thought of switching out the arc suppressor...there is an identical one on the A/C circuit that is easily accessible. I will try that as well just for good measure. I can also try to unpin and ground pin 3 and then pin 23...but it seems like it would be the same result as grounding that circuit at the other locations...but who knows Its as if the ECM is not internally completing the ground that is needed to open the relay. It appears that all power to that ecm comes via the 150 series wires when that relay is opened...there is also the EGR and MAF sensor that receive power from that relay...i will investigate those as well.
So I checked on the schematic everything that you posted here, you did not mention Conn#23 where the power passes through to go to connector #5 Pin #27. You did mention that you tested it all the way through to the Engine ECM Power Relay Pin #86 so if that wire had current going through it would appear to be okay. Only thing that sticks out that has not been checked is the ARC Suppressor that Nige mentioned above. Simon C
While you are messing around with that C903 wire on Pins 3 & 23 you could also try proving all the powers and grounds to the Engine ECM. I see a total of 9 power wires and 7 grounds on connector J1 and I suggest that you need to check every one of them.
Totally agree as just one insufficient strength ground or positive power could end communication or more. Was wondering if @ Johnkorpita how was the computer ground tested back to the Battery Negative post and how much was the reading. Most manufacturers want less than 0.100 Millivolt loss from computer grounds to Battery Negative with big problems starting to happen by 0.300 Millivolts. Was there current flowing when this was tested. ( This is what Fluke has on their website that I printed a long ways back ) Post #55 Hunterdan had to have the computer changed but that is last effort after forsure testing all that Nige mentioned. How much loss was there from the Battery positive to all the positve feeds of the Engine ECM is what needs to be ruled out now also. These will be higher as the voltage is in the 14 volt ballpark when running, but how much is viewed as too much is probably in the 0.5 to 0.7 volt range of loss from battery positive to ECM positives. Interested to see what comes of these tests. Simon C
I visually inspected connector 23 and also backprobed it and it was good. I did run power through the connector from one end to the other and it was okay. Arc suppressor changed swapped with the other one and no change. Good idea Nige, I will test all those powers and grounds. It may be a challenge to unpin the pins given how hard it is to get both hands on the connector in the tight workspace. Will do these tests this afternoon.
You may require a Deutsch connector unpinning tool or two to remove those wires.
Problem Solved. btw, the harness that goes into the ECU is a molex from what i learned...so a little different than the Deutsch. I feel slightly dumb...because it ended up being a fuse. When i tested all the positives and grounds in the J1 Connector, the grounds were all good but there were some inconsistent and questionable things in the positive pins. pin 1- 12v pin 12-4.6v pin 13-0 v pin 33-0 v pin 38-12v pin 58-12v pin 78-12v This lead me to go backwards to find any possible fail points. As i traced the wire series 123 from pins 13 and 33 it finally lead me back to the fuse box in the cab. I pulled out the 15 amp fuse and it looked good on the eyeball test...but it failed an actual test. I replaced it and that was my problem all along. I thought i checked all those fuses...but apparently not well enough. As we all get older i suppose the eyeball test is less and less accurate and should probably be discontinued for me at this point. Thank you so much Nige and Simon for your advice and guidance. I basically took the extremely long way around to find a bad fuse...I learned a lot along the way and hope this helps someone in the future. I have the schematic just about memorized. LOL. I circled the fuse that failed in the attached picture.
Kudos to you for fessing up and glad that you are up and running again. On the way I'm sure you learned a good deal about your machine electronic system. Remember that the man who never made a mistake never made anything..........
Glad you did not buy a computer for the blown fuse, I once was caught with a blown fuse that was good enough for a multimeter but would not run a test light. Thanks for sharing. Simon C
I would bet you check fuses and relays first next time something funny happens . I just had a no crank moment with my 2021 259 and I am out of the cat warranty only have power train and hydraulic through the dealer. I was sitting right on top of the trench and had to use the head so I shut the machine off since I had to go to the outhouse. Jump back in turn the key to on wait for the beep turn to start nothing, no codes or warning lights. Checked every fuse (both sides, I have learned that is important lol) with the dummy light (didn't have the multi meter) check the relays swapped them around, even checked the magnet on the arm rest switch to see if it was still magnetized no Joy. Called a couple of the techs I know, no answer, broke down and called the field service manager to see if there was anything else I could do. He dispatched a guy and I kept tinkering, I unhooked the connector of the arm bar safety and it threw a code for that plugged it back in, code went away,I tried to start it again and boom we are back up and running, called him back and told to him to recall the tech and what he thought happened. He said that it was a fluke. There has always been a moment before it cranks and now everytime I start the machine their is that knot in my tummy that it won't start
Arm rest safety can be checked by unplugging the harness and running a 5 amp test bulb through the loop to see if the wiring is in satisfactory condition to handle the load. If something is weak it will manifest itself when under load. If it dies again post your serial number for someone to be able to see the exact wiring for it. Simon C
Could you send me an electrical schematic for 279d3? Thanks
Supply a machine Serial Number and you’re welcome to one.
Does anyone have an ecu pin out schematic for a cat 259d? I’m having the same issue but intermittently. Some times unit will crank up and run fine other times it won’t and it just codes
Need to post your serial number for all the different configurations of "D" models. Welcome to HEF. Simon C
Wot he said…. Based on your symptoms I would suggest that a failing engine harness is the likely cause of your problem