I'm hoping somebody can point me in a new direction as everything I've tried isn't working. It began not starting a few months ago and since I had only had the machine a few months before that, and not knowing the history, I bought a new CAT battery. Didn't fix the problem. You have to charge the battery to start it. Once it starts, it runs all day and will start that same day if you have to shut if off. If you leave it overnight, it won't start. The alternator is pumping out 14.5 volts, and the battery reads 14.5 volts for a steady 2 hours with all the lights on. Connections look good. The only thing I can think of is something constantly and slowly draining the battery even with the machine off, but I have no idea what that could be. Any ideas? Thanks, -Tim
Alternator diodes/rectifier going bad will do that. Sounds pretty clear that the battery is getting drained so you have to identify where. Disconnect the ground cable from the battery for safety, then put a test light or etc. between the positive battery terminal and the positive battery cable. Put the ground cable back on the neg post and see if your test light lights up, or your ampmeter show a draw, etc. Then go disconnect the big wire from the alternator, if the test light goes out, replace the rectifier in the alternator.
And if it doesn't go out keep unplugging items until it does go out and that's your culprit.
Thanks! Will try that out.
Delmer Don't you mean the negative cable and battery post to check for the drain ? I have not seen doing on positive side just wondering.
Either post works. The test light just lets you know there's a complete circuit.
Change both battery cables if changing diodes and rectifier does fix it...
Ok, maybe a dumb question....where are the diode and rectifier? Are they in the alternator? If they are in the alternator, and they are bad, wouldn't that result in the battery not being charged?
Good point Mitch, I was overthunkin it. The diodes (three "check valves") make up the rectifier, one of them can leak just a little back and that will drain the battery overnight, but still hold most of the voltage to let it charge properly while running. An alternator is about 50% efficient so you'll never notice the tiny drop when it's running. They're in the alternator and are easy to get the parts and change- SOMETIMES.
I can't tell you how many times changing the ground cable has cured this exact problem. The cable goes bad from the inside out, resistance increases as the corrosion grows and it will kill. Battery quickly....you can't see it by looking at it unless you actually destroy the cable ....it's cheap to do and most times very effective....try it....
...so this is my first post, however, I'm no stranger to electrical troubleshooting/electrical woes. On my 257B3, I had an issue where it'd die depending on how much I'd use it. Going through a simple precursory inspection, I found the belt was loose and a little worn/dry rotted. Under full throttle, it'd just spin the alternator, but when it'd be at a lower rpm, it'd spin it enough...I believe at anything over 1100rpm will charge it. Anyhow, just something to think about. Me being me, I wanted to jump to chasing wires looking for a short, or diagnosing the alternator because it's NEVER something so stupid as a loose belt. Well, it was. The pulling fuse trick works if it's a short. It may be a little time intensive if you don't find the right one, it may take a few days if you go fuse by fuse, but it'll work. Fortunately, these aren't made by Audi, so they are not too hard to fix.
Hey stringfellow, welcome to HEF:drinkup You still got that helicopter?
Thanks. Lol mothballed in the Mesa. Now that Qaddafi is dead, I don't have to worry as much about it getting stolen.
Does your machine have the CAT electronic locator ? It's advertised as a maintenance feature but it is most often used to find machines that have not been paid for to repo. If you have it and the machine is stored indoors in a metal building the Electronic pinging goes crazy when it can't contact/connect with the satellite and increases ten fold from its usual pinging cycle. This increased pinging of the system can and does run down a battery very quickly...this has happened to me. I have all of my machines hooked up to a bank of battery tenders. Get one and your problem will go away. The battery tender is a smart charger. Trickle charges and does overcharge. Very good product. I suggest these be used on all equipment regardless of make of model....
I have installed numerous master switches on Cat skidsteers on the negative cable and for sure nothing will drain your battery any more if your shutting it down at night with full charge. Have pictures if you want to see. Hope you find your problem. Simon
It's a 2009 without too many features, so it doesn't have the locator. I charged the batter to full and measured 12.8 volts. I took off the negative cable and fully cleaned the ground contacts. The next day I measured voltage again and it was 12.8 volts. I will check again tonight but I am hoping it may have been that simple...fingers crossed.
I assumed you tried the basis stuff prior to asking your question......let us know how that works.... Duh ! Good luck !
I tried it today after it sat for a few days and it started, but barely. I'm going to give it another day and check the volts again. There's zero amps reading across the battery. Maybe it's a dumb question, but if it was a bad ground connection, why would jumping it work? Wouldn't it still have a bad ground?
Most likely the ADDED Amperage (and Voltage if from a running/charging vehicle) would give enough energy to bridge the issue _ like a 'cold solder' issue on a PC board, a jolt of voltage often completes the circuit, for a while _ Good Luck!!
I have the same issue of a drained battery on a new holland…. and I have already spent way to much time chasing loose wires, fuses, ignition switch, alternator, tire pressure, horn fluid level, etc etc with no solution, so I am installing a master battery disconnect to solve all my woes, when I unscrew the neg battery terminal at nite, the machine fires up no problem the next morning .
Don't know if anyone has mentioned the battery itself but it could have a shorted cell in it. The battery will charge fine and show a full charge but over time a short between cells will cause the battery to go dead. If you are chasing a draw in the machine with a test light hooked to the negative battery cable and terminal, have someone pull one fuse at a time unitl the light goes out. That will tell you which circuit the problem is in. Also as mentioned, check alternator.
So believe it or not, I am still fighting this issue. I replaced the battery and it worked great for a few months of sporadic use. Now I have to jump it every time I start it, even if I have run it for 2 hours, shut it off, and immediately start it. Stupid question....since diesel engines do not need a battery to provide spark to the plugs, I am assuming they will run without much if any juice? Would it run with a dead alternator? I need to test the alternator and diode again. Very frustrating, but I don't want to throw money at it until I have a good idea what it is. I already did that with the $170 battery. Also, replacing the battery cables looks like a PITA since they are all routed deep within the engine cavity.
Yes, it will run with NO alternator installed for quite a while, but it won't start back up. You need to check the basics on this, does it start with the battery fully charged? Running volts at the battery terminals.? If that's 13.5V or more, then disconnect the ground cable and see if the battery will hold a charge for what ever time.
IF you have access to a DVM (Digital Volt Meter) you can do a quick simple test: - Battery Voltage @ battery before starting (hopefully near 12V) - Battery Voltage after starting should jump up 2V to near 14V on most machines Otherwise, there are many things that could be a parasitic draw while it sits, and will definitely take a lot longer to diagnose, unless very lucky.. Keep us posted, and Good Luck!! ** I see Delmer also posted above, did not appear on my feed as I was typing, but same info yes!! **
Correction - a "12V" battery is actually 6 cells each one nominally rated at a hair over 2.1V per cell, so a battery in good condition should register 12V as an absolute minimum on a DMM and for preference closer to 12.7V. A good test of condition is to put a DMM across the battery terminals, crank the starter, and see what the voltage drops to as a minimum while cranking, just before the engine fires. When running the voltage should be in the range of 13.5-14V.
If you have a DVM set it to the 10 A scale and with the battery negative cable disconnected place the red lead on the cable and the black lead on the post and see what your amps are (key off). A machine with electronics such as ECU's and/or VCU's you could expect as much as 0.100 A (after a 0.500 spike for a couple of seconds for capacitor charging) but in my experience I would be concerned with anything more that 0.050 A. If the machine only has a monitor that may have a circuit board then nothing more than 0.025 A. If no electronics there should be no draw to maybe 0.010 A. Anything generally higher than theses numbers could be a problem and like the other posts say it is a process of elimination (pulling fuses, etc). If the machine sits long periods between use then any draw will eventually weaken the battery. If you set your DVM to AC volts and check the AC voltage at the output of the alternator anything more than about 0.5 V AC would indicate leaking diodes. Like other posts mentioned make sure you have good cables and connections. A battery disconnect switch on the negative side would be a plus.
Agree 100% on the negative side disconnect switch. On any machine equipped with electronics it ought to be standard, but on small equipment like this it often isn't. And it goes without saying that if the switch is there it serves no purpose unless people actually use it ......!!
I Hooked a master disconnect switch in the cab of my new holland over a year ago, and I haven't had a problem since. Some skid steers have master disconnects built in but they are usually located in the engine compartment (Deere maybe??) Having the disconnect in the cab makes it easy to use and remember.... cost me about 30$ for the swittch and another 30-40 for cables and connections.
I have the master disconnect switch, but now that I think about it, I believe it is on the positive side. I'll have to double check. I put that in while trouble shooting last time, but it hasn't made much difference. I should be able to get out there and try some trouble-shooting next weekend. Thank you all for the info. This machine has nearly 5000 hours on it, so it's bound to have these issues but this one in particular is just annoying as hell.
279D has a disconnect switch wired into the ground side of the battery wiring. See attached.
I wish they had done that with the 279C!
Even better, I wish they had put the battery in the same place as the 279D. Raising the cab every time I need to work on the battery is a PITA!