I have been in the market for a new 5tn mini. I recently decided that I didn't want to pay that kind of $ for a mini (+/- $80k with buckets) so I stopped checking them out. The last one I demoed was a Deere 50G, and I have also demoed a 305.5e2, and the Volvo ECR 58. I really wish that Takeuchi still made the TB153. I currently own a Bobcat 435ZHS with about 5,800 hrs on it. It has been over a year since I demoed the CAT but the salesman decided to through out a quote to me just before Christmas. Apparently my dealer really wants to move some of these units out as the price is pretty good and the financing is 0% for 60 months. It's been a while since I demoed it but this is what I recall. I liked the machine over-all. It felt smooth, tight, and gave me the impression of sturdy quality. It may not be quite as fast as my 435 but it feels like it has more mass to move. It definately has more lifting power than the 435. I did not like the position the knuckle on the swing frame (where the rod eye of the swing ram mounts to the swing frame). It is on the operators blind side (opposite of the 435) and will stick out past the track width if the boom is swung all the way to the operators left. I found this out (the hard way) as I was trying to dig adjacent to a foundation wall that was on my right. There is a zirk fitting guard on the rod eye and it is stout enough to put a decent gouge into the foundation wall! I am not very fond of the thumb as it looks a bit flimsy to me (especially when compared to me 435 thumb). At the time the price didn't excite me either. There are some other minor things I don't like (like the sideways mounted oil filter) but nothing that I recall would keep me from buying. I am a small excavation contractor who works primarily on high end custom homes in the Rocky Mountains (so we will be working in tough ground and/or rock). The 435 is currently my smallest hoe and I also have an '03 CAT 315C CL, a '17 Deere 245G. I also have (2) Bobcat A series skid steers, a CAT 416C, a couple 10 whl dump trucks, and a 66" ride-on single drum roller. Suffice it to say we have enough iron to perform a diverse array of tasks. As a general rule I prefer to use the largest piece of iron that will work in the intended space. With all that being said I am looking for first-hand opinions and experiences with the subject machine. From the research that I have done (Google search) there is not much recent information on the 5 ton class. I'm not sure if I want to open the floor (or flood gates) to suggestions with alternative brands. I will say that I WILL NOT consider Bobcat at this time. Thanks in advance.
Hi DGODGR, I am in Australia but went through the same exercise as you about 2 years ago, I had previously owned a Takeuchi-TB-138fr (3.8t), then a Hitachi ZX-35 (3.8t), then a Bobcat E-35 (3.8t) and my last purchase and current machine is a Kubota U55-4 (5.5t), you have clearly done some good hours on the Bobcat, unfortunately the E35 I owned has some disturbing issues (2 rotary joints under 1000hrs) and other problems, these were repaired under warranty I must admit but not a great thought to be paying for those repairs outside of warranty, but it clearly out dug my previous 2 machines with the extra horsepower that they had with the bigger motor that was available here when they were Kubota powered not Doosan. The Hitachi was a disaster, at 860hrs the slew ring bearing had excessive wear in it and it was only 13months old, and unfortunately they would not warranty it as it was over 12mts old, that put an end to my relationship with Hitachi. The Takeuchi was my first machine, never had any major issues but the complex (swing /offset ) system can be prone to wear if not kept lubed religiously, but in saying that is a great machine and the best to operate as you are not looking around cab or canopy pillars when offset either way. The two most popular 5t diggers here in OZ are Kubota and Yanmar, they sell like hotcakes, you very rarely see a 5t Cat, and we have a massive Cat dealership here in Brisbane (Hastings Deering), bigger machine yes but not in minis. I prefer the Kubota powered machines, had a few issues with Yanmar engines, did a water pump in my Takeuchi under 500hrs from memory,and some other minor things. Finding minis that run the swing ram on the inside of the king post/tower is hard, I thought it was a great idea and obviously my Bobcat had that and as you mentioned in your post, no issues with rubbing it on fences, walls and other things, sought of shows you how engineers are out of touch with how things work in the field really. When I have been to the Cat open/field days they seem very slow to operate, I even asked the salesmen that was standing there watching me dig, do I have it in some sought of "economy mode" that could have been giving me the sensation of slow operation but he checked and it was all good, it looked well put together I must admit, BUT it had some very dubious delivery details written on some paperwork attached the rear glass about where it was made and it was not America as I was led to believe, and after checking the vin plates on several others confirmed my suspicions, that may not be the case for you guys living in the USA but, if I were buying another new one tomorrow it would still be Yanmar or Kubota. Cheers, Peter.
The 305.5 is due to be redone as a next gen version which I do perfer. Have you looked into the 306 Cat.
Thanks for your input. I like many things about the Kubota (no experience with Yanmar) but I have found the pins and bushings to wear out prematurely and I have seen many of their thumbs break in the same place. In my opinion the ergonomics have also been lacking.
I have seen some media regarding the 306 but nothing first-hand. Of the items I recall associated with "Next Gen" upgrades the tilting cab is the only one that really gets me excited. I'm not sure if that's worth the extra price of admission for me.
I've got one.....use it for septic installs mostly....tearing out sidewalks......stuff like that. I'm not really brand loyal. We had been renting jd's, bobcats, kubotas.....whatever was available. I went with Cat because their financing is so easy that it's not even funny. And the dealer is about two blocks from my yard. I'm not brand loyal though. I think these days all of the brand name machines are going to get the job done just fine. I've got nothing bad to say about the machine.......but nothing to rave about either. Well that's not true....they come with a hydraulic pin grabber as standard. On a machine that size you end up changing implements so often that the pin grabber is a must have. Most of the other machines I looked at didn't have the pin grabber as standard...it was an ad-on that cost extra. Or some stupid brand specific quick coupler....last thing I want is a pile of buckets laying around the yard that only fit one size of one brand of machine...... At the end of the day Cat is pretty damn convenient for me. I can't complain.
That doesn't sound like a rousing recommendation....or a critical comment either. I gather that you are pretty ambiguous about yours. I would have to agree about the financing. Zero down, 0% interest for 60 months makes it crazy easy! Those were the same terms I had when I bought my 315 back in '03. The one that I was quoted comes standard with the manual pin grabber coupler. The hydraulic coupler is about $3k more. I fervently agree with you regarding the brand specific buckets. As it relates to performance loss when employing a coupler (break out forces, etc.) I would prefer a coupler that does not come with a leverage disadvantage (like those you had mentioned with the special attachment ears). The main reason that I accept the loss of breakout forces (that come with a pin grabber coupler) is because I can pin the bucket on directly in the event of a coupler failure. While I know that this may be a rare occurrence I have seen it first-hand and am not yet willing to let go of it. The thought of how passionate (or not) I am about this purchase came up for me while reading your thread. While I love operating equipment, and having a machine that works the way that I want it to, I now have too many machines to be the primary operator on all of them anyway. In reality I may not be the one who puts most of the hours on this new machine (if I get one) anyway. If I think about it I'm really trying to make it so I'm not so tied up in the field anyway (although I prefer the field over the office any day of the week). Where I'm going with this is that it is becoming easier for me to make equipment purchasing decisions more from the position of what makes the most business sense rather than what I might prefer to operate. I may not have fully made the shift though because if I had I would likely be purchasing used over new.
Taki will be releasing a new 153 this Spring. I want to replace my 153 and before I heard about Taki finally bringing the machine back, I demoed a 305E2 this Spring. There is no way I personally would buy one. I dug a 1500 sf crawlspace with one, and frankly was just fine bringing it back to Cat. The replacement 153 will be called like a 158 or something like that. There will be a run on new 153's when they finally release. There are a handful of guys here waiting to throw money at Taki to get a new one.
Is this something that they have publicly stated? I'm asking to see if there is any information I can get about it.
PM sent.
Tak doesn't have much market share down here. Century (Case dealer out of Salt Lake) used to sell them but they must have let the franchise go. Now Power Motive has brought about 6 to 8 of the Tak minis to a yard in my town. They also sell Komatsu but the only brand new machines are the Tak minis. So there are a few Taks here but I hardly ever see them around. I would imagine that there would not likely be a "run" on them like you expect in your neighborhood. We also have a Power Equipment Co (PECO) yard just over the border in NM and they have started selling the Taks as well. Funny, I could drive 10 miles north, or south, and hit a Tak dealer yet they hardly have any market share here.
This thread got a little bit derailed (my own fault) but I'd still like to hear from others with direct experience with the 305.5e2.
I’m on my second 305.5, this one being an 2018 E2 with just under 1000 hrs. Had the first one for just over 2300 hrs and no issues whatsoever. They have virtually identical fuel consumption and performance. A Helac tilt coupler is on 90% of the time, which pushes the effective bucket pin distance out quite a bit, but even so it does a good job of trenching, foundation digging, truck loading - whatever else I need. About the only time I take the tilt coupler off is when I need to use the thumb or dig out stumps. The only real complaints I have had about either of them is when I lift heavy, such as building a retaining wall with concrete ecology blocks (3000-4000 lbs/block). They’ll do it with some coaxing, but just barely. It can be frustrating, but room to maneuver is hard to come by, so I suppose that is just a tradeoff of using a mini. I would love it if Takeuchi were a more viable option in my area, not only for the excavators but the CTL’s as well. The specs grab my eye every time I’m in the market for a new machine, but unfortunately, I just don’t have confidence in the local dealer network when it comes to service after the sale.
My 435 struggles when trying to load/unload our 3,000# compactors. I found the 305.5 to be stronger than what I'm used to in the lifting category. 4,000# is a lot for a 12,000# mini (1/3 the weight of the machine)! I would offer a suggestion here (if you're open to one). Try taking the bucket off and also using the cross brace of the thumb as your lifting point. I know that this will effectively shorten your reach but it will give the mini a much better leverage advantage. You won't lose much reach and I doubt your lifting that much weight very far from the machine anyway. I'm very interested in the Takeuchi as well but despite having (2) dealers nearby I fear that support may be lacking here as well.
Lifting from the thumb cross brace is a good idea (I assume you mean while the thumb is still folded up against the arm). 4000# is a lot, and like I say, I'm probably just expecting too much from a mini in that respect. The dealer network seems (to me at least) to be the biggest obstacle Takeuchi has to winning over new customers.
I think even Taki would admit that their dealer network and support has been their 'soft spot" since they came to the North American market. My local Taki dealer is the CASE dealer which I have a good relationship with. So dealer support to date has not been an issue for me. I will say that I wish that Taki wasn't using Kubota engines in their equipment. My excavators have all had Yanmar, which in my experience have been nearly bulletproof. The issues with Kubota engines and their SCR issues includes Taki as well. Doesn't affect excavators of course since they are under 75 hp, but does include the CTLs. What I like about Taki is their stuff is traditionally, overbuilt. Taki puts value in durability. They historically have not been as pampering in the area of operator comfort, but it appears that they have spent a lot of time fixing that in their recent machines. As far as the "run". Well I put that into the context that this is a rural area, but of the guys that currently run a TB153 (6 machines that I can offhand recall in this immediate area) they have verbal agreements on 4 new machines. Considering how many mini's are sold here in a typical year, that is a "run". I have no idea how many Taki sells of the FR machines in the States, I think they will sell a lot of these, especially initially. They stopped building the current 153 in like 2013 or so due to emission packaging issues. So the guys that have them and are in the market for a new one will be anxious to get their hands on a new one. Morley, where in Washington are from? I spoke a month ago with FMI in Spokane. They appear to be a large Taki dealer. I drove to one of their customers who has a Taki TB2150 that I spent a couple hours on. Its a 140 sized machine, swing boom. I went to Butte, Mt to run it. I was impressed with it. I was also impressed with FMI, the guy I spoke with was the owner and the guy was pretty knowledgeable, way more than you tend to see at that level in an organization. I know nothing else about the company, but my first impression was positive. Comparing the 305E2 to the Taki 153, the Cat had faster cycle times which I did like. The Taki loads trucks much easier and has a higher lift capacity. The benefit of the side to side boom system on the Taki is the weight is more centered in the middle of the machine and not out front like a typical swing boom mini excavator, so it can really lift. I am anxious to run this new version of the 153.
KSSS - I’m in western Washington, so a bit out range for Spokane on a long term basis. Dealer knowledge and responsiveness is a big sticking point for me. If I’m going to spend the kind of money these smaller machines command these days I expect to deal with someone who puts the same kind of effort into their job as I do mine. My local Cat rep is great to work with and that makes my job so much easier when I need him. Takeuchi machines spec out great. I tend to use my machines towards the heavier end of mini/CTL work so overbuilt is a huge selling point to me. I don’t think I’d be worried about a structural failure with their equipment. However, although technology over the past couple of decades has been great for allowing more work out of small machines, it has also made dealer response to problems all that more important. These days a “failure” is likely to be nothing more dramatic than a flashing code followed by a machine that refuses to move. I want to have confidence that a phone call or text to the dealer can start the ball rolling towards a solution rather than a dead end of run arounds and down time. To answer the original question – yes, I would recommend the Cat 305.5. They’ve held up very well under heavy use with a very minimal amount of issues, most of them just coming down to operator preference or expectations.
I don't have a current Kubota engine in my fleet but my 435 and A300 both come with them. I have had zero issues with those engines (pre SCR) in a combined +/-11,000 hours between the (2) machines. Both were bought in '06. I think that the Cat might be running a re-badged Kubota in the 305.5. I don't know that for sure but I know that many of the Cats were dropped the Mitsubishis and/or Perkins for Kubotas. The 305.5e2 has DPF but no SCR so if a Kubota lives within I would hope it does not have issues (if I purchase one or not). My A770 has a Doosan engine in it and it has had a lot of issues. I wish that they would have stuck with Kubota!!
That's the kind of support all these machines should come with!! I find that there are different levels of support with each different dealership in my area with Cat being at the top historically. That being said I have had quite a few serious issues with Cat lately. Even though you are portraying the "failure" as not very dramatic, those little issues are like David and Goliath and will keep that machine from running. In fact I might prefer a bigger "failure" if it doesn't take special computer interface and proprietary software. Most times I can fix the "good ol' type of failure" myself. Thanks for your feedback.
I only saw the word komatsu mentioned briefly. Demoed a 305.5 thinking of replacing my 55 and no way did I want to own the cat after seeing and feeling the difference between the two.
Thanks for offering an opinion. This whole conversation is pretty anecdotal but I'd really like to hear more details about why you have that opinion. Can you please elaborate a little bit on that? In the meantime I will offer what little experience I have with Komatsu. I have a friend who has both a Cat 305C CR, and a Komatsu PC55MR (2018 I believe). When I asked him about it he basically referred me to one of his employees (To me that says that, even though he doesn't have a lot of direct seat time comparison to offer, he also doesn't have any major complaints about it either-visa vie the boss would be aware of major issues). His employee is also a friend of mine. The employee/other friend did tell me that he prefers the Komatsu over the Cat. He said he prefers the visibility (not fair comparison as the subject PC 55 is an open ROPS machine), how much smoother the hydraulics of the machine are, and that it will reach a little farther than the 305. The reach is not an issue as the 55 compares better to the 305.5e2 (which actually has a tad bit more reach than the 55 on paper). I actually like the tilting cab feature (for ease of maintenance) of the Komatsu. I do plan to go check his machine out and probably get a quote from the local Komatsu outfit. With my comments on performance out of the way I will move on to the, possibly more important, topic of support. While I have a dealer about 40 miles south of me (in another state), and a dealer about 10 miles north of me (it's more rather" kind of a dealer") I fear that support would be lacking with the Komatsu and I can't say if Komatsu is offering a sweet price, or the financing (zero down and 0% for 60 months). I guess we will see when I call them (I don't even know the salesman's name!). When I say "kind of a dealer" it is because the actual brick and mortar dealership is either 4 or 6.5 hours away from me. In my town said dealer has a fenced in yard (sub-letting most of it to one of our local material suppliers), a vacant double-wide, a shipping container with some parts (which they claim you can pick parts up from if you order), and a mobile mechanics truck. They have been claiming that they intend to build a real dealership here for the whole 20 years that I have lived here. That doesn't speak very well to their commitment to this area (to me anyway). My friend's PC55MR is the only small Komatsu I have seen in the area. There are quite a few larger units working around here and those that I have talked to are happy with them. Said dealer has actually put about 6 or 8 brand new Takeuchi minis in that yard recently. I do live in a small town so One could argue that I'm just in too rural of an area. That argument is easily de-bunked when Cat, Deere (and Hitachi), Case (and Kobelco), and Bobcat, all have real dealerships here. Regardless I will reach out to them even though I don't feel very comfortable with the level of support that I think they can offer. With all that being said I would still love to hear your (more detailed) argument about why you feel so strongly Komatsu over Cat regarding current 5.5 ton minis.
Honestly, I've run a few of the smaller cats and my opinion is the smaller CAT stuff is quite over rated when you look at the overall machine. There really was nothing that stood out that some of the other brands that I own or have run can't do. I think there is about half dozen other machines I'd choose over a cat. Price point and dealer support is where I look. If you wana be cool, for sure buy a CAT. lol. Don't over look TK's, yanmars, Komatsu, Kubota.
I'm not sure I'm looking for the Cat to be an extremely superior machine. It would be nice if it did everything better than all the other machines but I doubt that this would be true for any machine. The expectation that I have for a Cat mini (or really any brand mini) would for it to have fairly good performance, and great reliability, the best possible support, a good price and good financing. If you refer to the previous posts in this thread you would notice that I am looking closest at the Cat because so far they have the best price, financing, and support of all the machines that I have experience with. Of the other brands that you have mentioned there are no Yanmar dealers near me (that I'm aware of), I do not feel that the Kubota is quite up to the task (I speak to my opinion on that brand above), I am waiting on price, availability, and financing quotation from Komatsu (though I have expressed my concerns regarding support above), and I have been doing some research on the Takeuchi (but have the same concerns about support as I do from Komatsu as it would be from the same dealer). While I am open to discussion regarding other brands the main reason for this thread is to have another source of information to help vet out the Cat's performance and reliability. While I do think that the Cat is cool it would be way cooler if it comes with the best price, financing, works above average, and has the best support. So I guess we are in agreement on our priorities but maybe not on which brands meets those priorities. Some of that must be due to the dealership and not just the brand.
I have not run a Cat mini ever, I see some in my area but certainly not enough to think they're selling like hotcakes. The Cat dealer is about an hour away from my area and I do see lots of bigger Cat equipment. I see a ton of Kubotas, had a 161 myself for years and thousands of trouble free hours, I believe there are so many Kubotas because there are dealers everywhere near me. I am fairly certain at this point with the introduction of so much electronics and emissions being jammed into equipment now that the dealer support should probably be one of the top things to be considered when purchasing a machine. I also think that most of the minis in the same class pretty much perform very similar to one another and if the dealer is good with support it then comes down to cab size, and features. If the Cat dealer has good support, the machine will fill a need you have, and it is at a price point that works for you, have em send one out for a demo and see how it goes.
It seems like most everything is getting like that (on multiple points that you have made). There are purchase options in just about all the big ticket items we buy these days and, as you said, they usually are pretty close in performance and features. Obviously there are one-offs and exceptions but as a general rule anyone could make a good case for that position. In the context of this particular discussion the only units that could even be theoretically considered are the TB/FR series of Takeuchi. We did bring those up earlier in the thread and the TB 153FR was/is the unit in this size class. I said was/is because they are not currently marketing them in the US anymore so (if we were to consider those at this time) we would have to find a good used unit to consider. The reason that I brought that unit up (both earlier and now) is because I think that platform is unique, has a decent fan/user base, and thus merits consideration. It sounds like the availability of that machine (or something similar) may change but likely not in time for me. I also agree that the complexity of these machines now (and proprietary software, etc.) has made specific dealer support much more critical than ever before. As it relates to demo I have demoed the Cat but it was about a year ago. I will try out the specific machine before I purchase it. I should have a quote from Komatsu on Monday and they said they also have a machine close by for me to demo. I think I will seize this opportunity and have both units out to the ranch and put them head-to-head.
I will also add this. I bought a Tak TB260 about 3 years ago, I went with the Tak because it is a bit bigger than a Kubota KX057, had some nicer features, big cab, and the dealer although about 2 hours from me had a great service/parts man and good support. Ive had two differential pressure sensors go bad at two different times both at just around 1000 hours, called them up, spoke with said parts/ service guy, gave him codes and received the sensors, swapped em out and I was back in business. Paying $500 a sensor was bugging me so I was doing some reading about the warrantee for the Yanmar motor and it looks to me like the sensors should be covered under the emissions warrantee that Yanmar has, called my salesman, he has been checking to see if they are covered.....for the last 4-5 weeks....I've heard nothing....come to find out that the service/ parts man and their lead mechanic have left the company....so much for my dealer support....Also, as far as financing, Tak uses an outside lender, where as I'm fairly certain that Kubota, Komatsu, and Cat all have in house financing which is why I belive that they can give very attractive financing options.
I have heard from a HEF member (who is very partial to Takeuchi I might add) that the 260 leaves something/s to be desired in the performance department. Take that for what it's worth but that's the only report (besides the one you just gave) on the 260 that I have heard. Too bad about those sensors. I would also add that the fact that you have to go back to your dealer to get those parts covered doesn't speak very well to the level of support in the first place. What I mean is that the parts and service guys (that you now say are no longer there) should have warranted the parts to begin with-They should have known! Furthermore, in my experience with multiple brands over decades in this line of work, the personnel at a Cat or Deere dealership are usually there for the long term. Many make careers out of that employment so (at least in my opinion) that further adds to the theory that the big brands can provide superior support. Especially when you consider the experience that you have posted above (which aligns with my experience over time) of lesser qualified personnel and a higher employee turn-over rate. I know that Cat and Deere have their own finance companies but I'm not sure about the others.
I will be interested to hear the thoughts on the Komatsu. I have never run one. When your used to what a typical mini ex does, finding a machine to meet that expectation is relatively easy since as stated above, the performance between them typically isn't very drastic. Finding an OEM that covers the service, parts and financing aspects of owning a machine can be more difficult which is what DGODGR is working through. The reason I have not replaced my 153 is because it isn't typical (I am about 1200 or so hours over when I normally rotate out) When you become used to what you can do with it, your strategy to complete projects acclimates to that capability. Until Taki announced the return of a new version of the 153, I was getting ready to have to buy something else. After 16 years of running an FR, that is not a small adjustment. Myself and those contractors around me that also own 153's (that I am tight with) found ourselves in the same situation, machines due to be rotated out and nothing to fill the performance gap. The machine isn't perfect and there are some negative trade offs due to its unique design. However, the performance upsides, at least to date, have proven far and above the negatives. We here, are fortunate that the service for Taki is good and hopefully that doesn't change. If there were no service for Taki, I think I would still have to find a solution that would allow me to keep buying them. I bring this up not to try and convince anyone else to buy one (especially if your a competitor of mine), they may not be for everyone. Sometimes though you come across a machine that gives your operation measurable/noticeable advantages over other contractors. The FR is certainly that machine for me, it punches above its weight class but does it while operating within a couple inches of its own footprint for 360 degrees, and loads trucks with the same ease as a traditional full-size excavator and has great lift and stability. I was elated to learn that Taki is bringing them back, so I don't have to go through what DGODGER is.
Keep in mind that my 55 is a 98 with just shy of 4,000 hrs. Ive owned is for a majority if the years since around 1,200 hrs. The dealer is a short hour away and one of the oldest komatsu dealers around. All of my other major equipment is caterpillar with another oldest major dealer within a short hour. I was looking at upping to get away from a set of tracks and pins, bushings in the entire boom. Major problems, not much. A starter and starter relay under the seat, a few leaky cylinders, swing boom bushings and bore and a set of tracks. The main hyd hose went the other year. Wish I had the tilt cab then. The Yanmar sips fuel and no matter how cold always starts. Change all the oils, slow warm ups and cool downs. Good care. The same basic machine has been produced for over 20yrs till the emission machines came out. The boom, cab shell and substructure is still the same. No bent and welded sticks like the cat. Everything is cut and welded construction still today. Operation wise the cat couldnt hold a grade, jerky and unstable footed. Always had to have the blade in front of you or it would rear up. I actually took the blade off my komatsu because it didnt need it. The cat was really fast like all the machines nowadays but no way did it have the controllability and dexterity of the Komatsu. I guess you could compare it to the cat GC badged single pump hoe vs a traditional cat reverse flow machine. The feel was horrible. Im not using my mini to bail mass dirt. Im using it as a shovel so I dont have to most times. I do have a 3ft bucket and it handles that just fine also, everyday is the 2ft. Another big poo poo was the swing boom. It didnt pivot like my komatsu and when I use that I really need it. Cant remember why as this was around 5 years ago but the komatsu pivots 90 degrees left out the door with great visibility and 60-70 degrees out the right side. Reach with the long stick I measure usable range that from the idler toe to the bucket edge was within a couple inches depending on. I have frenemies that have minis and I get a chance to run them from time to time. The cat, daewoo, kubota and deer I have operated have not come close to how my komatsu operates. Fast yes, controllable not so much in fine operation.
Thanks for taking the time to elaborate your experience DoyleX. Here's an update. Things have stalled for a bit for a couple reasons. I went ahead and engaged the Komatsu/Takeuchi dealer regarding this purchase. It took him a while to do some digging. I've also fallen under the weather with what I suspect to be this nasty influenza B I've heard about. It's been about a week so far and I'm ready for it to be over. As much as I'm intrigued by, and would like to try, the Komatsu 55MR I think it's out of the running. There are (3) factors for this. First is due the the huge cost difference. The Cat was offered at $64k (2020 305.5e2 with 0 hours) and the Komatsu was offered at $83k (2019 55MR with 200 hrs). That's a huge cost difference. The Komatsu would really have to be cheaper and/or offer a substantial advantage in some other facet (i.e. support, performance, longevity, re-sale, etc.) for me to seriously consider purchasing. This is because they don't have brick and mortar support closer than 3 or 4 hours drive from my town. I would have loved to demo it ( to try and see if I could justify the price difference) but they didn't want to bring a machine down unless I liked to the price first-which I did not. I really don't blame them for this but if they want to increase market share down here they are going to have to spend some money and/or take some risks. I even spent 2 hours on the phone with the regional Komatsu factory rep. Ultimately he admitted that Komatsu is just NOT competitive in that "utility" class (as he called it) and he thought the CAT was offering a smok'in deal and I should take it. Even if the machine is better I doubt it's $16k (25% more) better. DoyleX even confirmed that a little when he said he had to re-pin & bush his 55 at 4k hours. According to him he's not even using his for anything beyond precision work ("so I don't have to shovel" I think he said) and we will be using ours for production from time to time. If he had said it was at an 8k to 10k hour interval this might have supported the higher price point. Second is the financing. With Cat offering ZERO % with ZERO down for 60 months the other brands can't match that either. Komatsu is offering 0% for 48 months but they still haven't gotten back to me on the zero down part (I think they've forgotten me now). Lastly is the support. Cat has proven to me (over the years) that they can get most any part over night (if they don't already have it in the local store). Cat has 6-7 shop mechanics and has at least 3-4 mobile mechanics in town as well. I may still try out the Takeuchi. They are offering a '19 TB260 (9 hr machine) for $73k. That machine will come with the additional (2) buckets I've asked for. To make that an "apples to apples" comparison we'd have to add $2k (Cat is offering a rebate on attachments as well) to the Cat. That comes to $66k which is still $7k less for the CAT! There was no mention of any Takeuchi incentivized financing so the price gap just grew even more. The support of the Tak is the same as the Komatsu because they are both offered by the same dealer. If I do demo the Tak it is really just a check to make sure the CAT is in the same league (which I'm fairly confident that it is). Really it just boils down to me actually trying out the CAT and finishing the deal. There is a small chance that the CAT dealer may f%%!-up the deal but not highly likely.
It will likely be hard to beat the deal Cat is offering. Taki is offering 0% for 42 months and 1.9 for 60. I would like to hear what you think of the 260 if you end up demoing it.
My machine had a very hard life before I owned it. The bucket was burned through, stuffed full of red dirt and greased 6 times in 1,200hrs. 18 years ago I started with nothing and needed a hoe that size because thats the work I did. Today it might get 50hrs a year as things grew and that side shrunk. It's unfortunate that the kmartsu dealer wont even try to sell you a machine. I dont know if the extra price would be worth it either. Good luck.
We run Takeuchi mini’s and love them. They are super durable in our hard rocky ground here in Hawaii. I own both a TB240 and a TB260, and we run Montabet hammers on them quite a bit. They punch above there weight, we were cutting a slope the other day and we’re lifting 36-42 inch lava rocks out of the cut with the TB240. You do have to finesse it a bit but it can be done, sure it would have been nice to have a bigger machine on this particular job, but you work with what you have. Dealer support is pretty solid, the Case/Takeuchi dealer is about 5 miles from my house, the Cat and Kamatsu dealers are even closer. I did check out the cat 305.5e2 before we bought the 260. It was nice, but the Tak’s just has such a great reputation around here. We have a lot of them on the island and the old time operators speak very highly of them. When it comes to the big excavators it’s exclusively CAT and Kamatsu. I’ve never even seen a big Case machine, ever. But the mini’s, the Tak’s are super popular, with cat and Kamatsu in the mix too. I believe that the 305 and under series form CAT are not actually made by CAT, but another OEM, but the new next gen 306 to 310 series i believe is (please correct me if I’m wrong). I’ve yet to see one in person, but the new CAT 306 might be worth looking into and might just give the TB260 a run for its money. I will say if you can swing the money, the difference between the 4 ton and a 6 ton machine is pretty apparent, especially if your running a Hydraulic hammer. In the next six to twelve months, we will be looking for a machine in the 15 ton class, and we will be looking hard at the CATs like the 315 (it’s hard to beat cat’s financing, especially on a 15 ton and up), as well as the Takeuchi TB2150. Aloha!
Okay! I Finally have an update. There was quite a delay in getting a demo on the subject machine. It seems as though Wagner doesn't carry 36" buckets for the 305.5. Since this is the size that we use most on our mini I required that one was available (both 34 and 36 inch actually) for the demo. My salesman claims that he had to go to bat with higher ups to get a 36" bucket purchased for "just a demo". Seems a bit crazy to think that a company as big as Wagner doesn't have a 36" bucket (for a 305.5) sitting on the ground somewhere. Anyway, this was the reason that the salesman gave me for the delay. This took over a month. Once the machine was delivered another salesman came by the job and talked me into doing a demo on the Tak TB 260 as well. Then he came by with the company owner along with the VP in charge of sales. They just happened to be in our little town that day so he brought them by. I was glad to meet them. They gave me the confidence that their dealership could possibly provide me with proper support even though their closest "brick and mortar" facility is 4 hours away. One of the factors was that they had their local mechanic (they have a mobile mechanic who lives in the area) drive the 4 hours (each way) to get the 36" bucket that they promised to have with the demo. That dealer also sells Komatsu (another brand that I was considering but was higher priced and closest machine to demo was the same 4 hours away -or so I was told) and they decided that hey would bring a PC55 down for m e to demo because they felt that I would see why it would be worth it for me to pay the extra $ for it over the others. The PC55 was at my job the next day (but no 36" bucket). It actually was brought down from Casper, WY! That's more than a 10 hour drive!! Suffice it say that this gave me more confidence that they were going to stand behind whatever they would sell me. Kudos to Power Motive Corp! Since I had all the machines on the same job (at the same time) it was a great opportunity to put them through their paces. The Cat felt pretty good right out of the gate. I was able to tell that I preferred it over the TB260 pretty quickly. It felt very sluggish and cumbersome. It also had the odd tendency to curl the bucket very slow when also booming up. Even more odd was the fact that the bucket would curl i little faster (though still too slow) when we selected the "heavy lift" mode. I would think that such a mode would put even more priority to the boom. Once the mechanic arrived (the morning of the second day) with the 36" bucket he looked over the machine. He checked circuit pressures and decided to increase the relief pressure of the curl circuit. I'm not a mechanic but I'm not sure how this would make a difference. It did, however make a small difference. Even more remarkable was the fact that the whole machine worked better. It felt much more nimble and quick. I think he upped system pressure and not curl circuit relief. Still, the Cat was preferred by all operators. Once the Komatsu arrived I checked it out pretty thoroughly. In fact I parked all (4) machines in a row (I also had my Bobcat 435 at the site) to make side x side comparison of structural components easier. The TB260 is obviously a larger machine than the others (but the 250 is a little smaller than the others). All of them had, what I would say is a structural advantage, of one component, or another, over the others. It would be nice if I could take the parts I liked from each and make a "Frankenexcavator"!. I preferred the Tak push blade, the Komatsu U/C looked a bit stouter, the Cat main frame (or superstructure frame) looked the burliest. The PC55 has a different approach to the swing frame. It is very stout looking but the Cat looks stout as well (and is more conventional in design). They each use castings differently as well. Since the Tak was really bigger than what I was looking for, and I found it to be my least favorite in terms of how it worked, I narrowed things down to Cat vs Kom. There were things that I liked, and disliked on each machine. The Cat felt quicker, primarily in the swing. In fact, the Kom swing circuit took some getting used to. It felt like it took more time get the swing up to speed and also took more time to bring the swing circuit to a stop. Almost like feeling of going from a mini to a full sized excavator. The swing of the Kom also had a much louder gear noise. The Kom lever effort was greater too. I wouldn't say it was off-putting but it was noticeable. The Cat felt like it had the easiest time penetrating the earth and filling the bucket. I am not sure but I suspect that the Cat buckets might have something to do with this. Both of the other machines had WB (Workbraugh) buckets and they were stouter than the Cat buckets. I asked and Cat does not have a stouter bucket (than what they had already provided) until you move up to the 308 size machine. In conclusion, every time that I would ask one of the guys to take a mini and go do a task they would invariably get in the Cat. When I demanded that they put time in one of the others (so that we could get comparative data) they would balk and grumble. I also preferred the way that the Cat performed and when I took the price, support, and financing terms it really was an easy decision. I'm buying the Cat 305.5.
Thank you for your real world input. Try TAG for a robust bucket. I had to get one for my 308 and will order one for my 304C CR in the next few months
...and the one mini says to the others "Does this bucket make my *** look big?"
More machines than you can shake a stick at!
The Cat buckets that I have for my 315CL have held up extremely well. That machine has over 8,000 hours (and we often work in rock) and they have required nothing more than occasional hard facing. My normal mode is to err on the side of overbuilt when it comes to ground engaging tools but given my past experiences with Cat buckets I will give the Cat buckets a go. If they fail to live up to my standards then I will look to the aftermarket as there are a lot of good bucket MFRs out there.
Pretty cool you were able to run all the machines at the same time and come away with the machine you want.
I chose to up load thumbnails last time (concerned about file size) so I'm going to re-upload full size so they can actually be viewed. I might need some more iron on this job (and you can't even see it all in this pic)! Here's the "Does this bucket make my butt look big" picture. ....And here's the view of the working end. As you may have read above it was difficult to get them all on the job at the same time. I don't recall it being like that in the past. Maybe it's a product of the "lean inventory" business model we saw after the crash in '08....Or maybe it's an intentional sales strategy. Regardless, I was pleased that we got to demo them all at the same time.