Does anyone know any tricks of syncing the injectors without using the cat tool?
Yes but hard to say convey to someone if they’ve never worked on one before. Have you ever done one with the tools? It’s the engine assembled and runs or are you putting in injectors with rockers removed?
I think it relates to this thread ................ HeavyEquipmentForums
I have never done it with the tools but I understand the principle and understand how I can set the injector height using a caliper but I'm not to sure about how to go about doing the syncing and setting the fuel. The engine is assembled and running but it smokes alot.
Copper sleeves need to be reamed to seal
After reaming do you need a special tool to install injectors as they are pressed fit?
A PM just answered that question. It has the install procedure in it.
Synch will not get rid of grey smoke. Seats should be reamed if necessary but you’ll need the proper tool. To answer your question the injectors don’t need a special tool to install after reaming. Did you install a small o ring near the tip of the injector? That seal can give you a temporary seal to stop seat leakage which would let you know if reaming is required. Air leak at seat will cause hard start and smoke. Are you sure the timing dimension was set properly because that will cause smoke too
What was done to this engine and why? They were prone to crack an injector sleeve. Others mentioned reaming sleeves. I have done that with new sleeves but can that be needed while just replacing injectors? Setting the rack is possible without factory tools but I am reluctant to comment. I has been a long time. Make sure you have no air in the fuel inlet line to the head.
I was thinking about trying the small o ring at the tip but didnt know if it would have been a problem. When you say timing dimension do you mean injector height?
The engine was rebuilt with new rings and stuff and then new injectors installed in an attempt to resolve tbe tons of smoke issue, if there was an injector cup crack wouldnt there be fuel in the coolant or vice versa?
A few notes on these things regarding the sleeves and reaming/seating thing. The injector sleeves on these engines are made from a softish copper alloy material. In the early days, new sleeves had the tapered seat cut (reamed) with a special tapered cutter, much along the lines of a valve seat cutter. The injectors were then installed and that was that - until - they would start to leak cylinder gases past the taper and into the fuel gallery. The remedy was to remove the injector(s) and recut the seat. It was a finicky procedure that required good condition tooling and an experienced mechanic for any king of success. Even then success maybe ran around 50/50 long term as the sleeves became work hardened. Then arrived the "seating tool". This is a bridge affair that goes over the top of the injector and pushes the injector hard down into the copper sleeve creating a more reliable seal. I recall Cat called it "coining"? Although cutting the seats was still officially required, the coining was a huge improvement and the success of repair increased enormously. In time, the mechanics realised that the coining was kind of making the reaming redundant and so, among the more independent-minded of us, the standard MO for leaking seats was (is) to install a new set of sleeves, forget about the reaming and install the injectors with the coining tooling. This pretty much ensures long term success.
Thank you for this info!
Would you be able to post a video or pictures of the engine and smoke while running. With a 3116 it’s tough to point out one thing without hearing or seeing what it’s doing. You could also put a clear plastic line on the return fuel lin3 and check for bubbles. If a cup is cracked you would have fuel in the coolant. I seat the injector without the seating tool but you have to be careful doing it. The tool is better When you say new rings installed did you check cylinder bore wear or just rering?
For the benefit of the new member the best way seems to be to upload a video to YouTube then post a link to it here. HEF does not permit the direct uploading of videos.
This would be a great help.
Thank you and the others with experience on these. Some done around here may have been cracked and it sounds like others likely just had a bad seat. We pulled the head. Replaced and cut all the new sleeves. Sometimes replaced rings, bearings and a valve job. Then they worked for a long time. Just doing one caused us to go back again. Never heard of the coining. Thanks for the education, hope I don't need to use it.
Part number for the seating tooling is 1731530 if anybody is interested. Costs about $750 here in godzone so probably about $500 in the US of A
"Call dealer for pricing" in the US of A.
Thanks guys for everything but corona is shutting down everything in my country so dont know when I would be able to get back on the 3116
Wait so let me get this straight. If your just replacing the sleeves they dont need to be reamed? But the injectors need to be re o ringed and then the infamous seating tool is needed? I have one that has fuel in coolant. I was thinking of just replacing the sleeves quick and calling it a day. Now im thinking of giving the job to the next guy!!
Lol. You say JUST replacing the sleeves. Replacing the sleeves is a non-trivial operation and if you don't have access to the tooling, my advice is don't even start the job. Once the sleeve R&R is complete, the injector seating, synchronisation, timing and rack setting is like a walk in the park.
Im sorry. I didnt realize that the sleeves were that involved. I would love to be able to get my hands on the tooling for the job, and then to my knowledge i would need tooling for seating and synchronisation as well?
Yes that's right. The full set of toolling runs to multiple thousands of dollars. I have the gear for doing the setup but for the number of times I get asked to replace sleeves (maybe one per year, if that) I can't justify the cost and usually send the customer to the dealer.
Yikes. I would love to do the job but at this point it wouldn't be worth it for neither the customer or myself. Thank you for all the input
Hi I had my machines tell me about this. He has someone that will rent him the tooling. It reminds me of the 2 stroke GM series of engines the copper sleeves in those will leak fuel in to the coolant as well. Phil P
Never seen a GM copper leak fuel into the coolant. Seen plenty of them leak coolant into the engine oil. Also seen plenty of jumper tubes leak fuel into the engine oil. I've witnessed a couple of cracked sleeves leak compression gas into the coolant.
Hello John C Here is the way you get diesel in the coolant from the copper injector tube on the 2 stroke GM diesels. You take the cylinder head to the machine shop and have them recondition it including replacing the copper injector tubes. Then you install the head and torque the rockers down without backing off any of the adjusting screws. This squeezes the copper out the bottom of the cylinder head and distorts the upper seal area as well. You don’t figure out anything is wrong until you have tried to run the engine. This results in diesel in the coolant coolant in the oil and I am sure diesel in the oil as well. I found out about this when the machine shop called me to ask what would destroy the injector tubes. Phil P
My 3116 in my Topkick has put me through the wringer. I first found on ebay and bought the carpenter tool kit to set the injectors, the seating tool and a reamer to fix a hard start issue created by combustion gas burning through the copper seat and allowing air into the fuel gallery on the number 1 cylinder. Truck ran fine for a brief time after repair until I noticed hard start issue return but not as bad as first time. Then noticed collant line were getting squishy and realized I now had fuel contaminationg coolant. Finally found a cat injector sleeve tool kit on ebay and got it bought. Found a pinhole in #1 and 2 injector sleeves so pulled and replaced along with all new reman injectors. Adjusted afc screw out 1/2 turn and fuel screw out 1 turn and now have a good running truck. 250 HP fatory setting now much more responsive with more power than it ever has had. I have two concerns though. Truck seems to have a knock mostly pronounced at idle, any ideas how to track this down. I thought I might try to adjust syncronization screws by ear to try and track it down. I also installed pyr and boost gauge. On a hard mountain pull I am maxing out at about 23 psi boost and pyro maxs at 1100 F with sensor installed 1.5 inches after turbo. Am i going to melt this motor down with that pyro reading?
A lot of pistons are made out of 356 aluminum alloy. It melts at 1280 F. Exhaust after the turbo has cooled down some from the cylinders. 1100 degrees is pushing it except for short time periods in my opinion.
I have a 3116 with weird situation, smokes black on idle, but when I press gas pedal the amount of smoke increase, I have no tool to set the inyectors, but the fuel pump it's different, it looks like a high pressure pump and the rack moves by the pump. I can't see if that movement is electrical inside the pump or mecánical, can be that adjustable by the pump or has to be done on the rack?
Does it have a wiring harness going into the the engine under the valve cover? All 3116's I have seen were mechanical fuel control. I have read there were some 3116 electronic engines made. Look on the valve cover for a serial and arrangement. Post them and you way get better answers. That 3116 mechanical system is only for very competent folks to work on. It can be done without the factory tools but that is tough.