I have a 2003 KW with a cat 3126. I think it is rated at 210 hp. Engine # ckm 6522 2CPXHXO44HBX. What numbers do I have to look for when replacing it?. Will a 230 or 250 hp work. What years. Can Cat dealer tell me? What about the head only? Same question?
Check the engine number again. CKM06522 comes up as a 210BHP @ 2200RPM for a "Thomas-built Bus". If the engine number is correct then it's obvious it's not the original for your KW, which could cause even more problems sourcing a replacement.
Sorry Nige: Fingers are stiff, and mind tired, I left out one number, should be CKM65522. Truck is in shop and if it turns out motor is bad. I have seen a couple of used ones available. One is listed at 230 hp and one at 250 hp. I know these are underpowered and just wondering if a few more H.P. would be better. And speaking of Thomas bus, I may have a source where I could get one out of them. What problems are you referring to if you use a bus engine?. (yes, mine shows 210 HP on engine decal)
That's better - CKM65522 is rated 210BHP @ 2200RPM for Paccar usage, which includes your Kenworth. A replacement engine to "drop in" to your KW is Arrangement Number 204-2238. The problem with taking an engine from any other make of vehicle than a KW, despite it still being a 3126 model engine, is that there could be issues with accessories which are fine for installation in a Thomas bus but will not fit your KW for whatever reason. To complicate matters even more there are probably a dozen or so 210BHP variations of 3126 all designed for slightly different KW installations.
So if my engine is bad, how do I go about finding one that will fit, without going through Cat and ordering a rebuilt one? What years etc, and what other makes of truck would work?
Every different Arrangement Number of 3126 will be slightly different physically, even at 210BHP there will be literally dozens of alternatives. If they weren't different in some way between one and another then they would all have the same Arrangement Number. If your engine is goosed then the first stop would be your local Cat dealer and ask for a price for a Reman long block for engine Arrangement Number 204-2238. I'm showing the Core engine arrangement (engine minus accessories) for 204-2238 as being 199-6049 and for that Part Number there are Reman short (0R-4890 @ $5250) & long (10R-7040 @ $9000) blocks immediately available. That gives you an idea what a warranted unit would cost from Cat so that you can compare prices for whatever you can buy from other sources.
Edit: well it runs out there aren't that many alternatives of 3126 rated 210BHP @ 2200RPM - only 174 of them ............... and each one will be slightly different to any other. There are 23 different alternatives listed just for Paccar (KW) usage, each one of which will be slightly different. Just out of curiosity I compared 2 of the 23 at random. The differences were the valve mechanism covers, the fumes disposal (engine breather) lines, and the fact one had an air compressor where the other one didn't - obviously hydraulic vs air brakes.
Thanks very much for your help and advice. Truck is at KW now. They said #5 cyl was scored and they didn't think they could bore it out in truck and put a sleeve in it. They said it would be too time consuming. I am waiting for a call from them with some prices. I already have $3000. in it with them. Originally they said two injectors were bad and I authorized that work to be done. $1800. Went to pick it up, paid the bill and when I started it up, smoking real bad. Never smoked before. They said another $1000. to tear the head off and check it out. Said #5 was scored. I am thinking short block.
If it's a scored bore a short block would fix the problem - at a price obviously. IIRC Cat dealers I've been around would not bother trying to sleeve a 3126 because it would cost them more in labour to make the job economical for the customer. There is a repair sleeve available though, Cat Part Number 107-7604, price $90, however I'm struggling to find any information on the procedure for actually installing it. Either way I suspect if there is a procedure it will involve removing the engine, completely stripping it, and getting it on to a boring machine.
Well I got a call from KW. $18,000 for a long block. They said by the time they took the engine out, every thing would have to be taken off of it and send it out to be sleeved and the time factor. They didn't give me a price yet on a short block but the way they talked it would be around $14,000. I think I am just going to have it towed out and settle up with them. I have found a 3126 out of a FL. 2002 year. 130k miles. $3000. (no core) and a shop near me would install it for another $3000. He is supposed call me and let me know how many pins it has. My engine build date code I think is 2002 also. The reason I would like to hold on to my old engine is that the head is good and I have already paid $1,800 for injectors. And I have a 2002 FL 70 in my shop that needs injectors. I just hated laying out the money. I can change them myself in the winter when things are slow. Plus I will have all the other parts. Again Nige, thanks for taking time to help me and one more question, by my KW engine serial # can you tell me how many pin my computer is? I don't have the engine serial # off the FL but it be likely the same. As soon as the fellow answers me and sends me the engine # I'll post it.
Your original engine CKM65522 was built on 21/08/2002. From the Parts Manual illustrations it appears as though your engine has an ADEM-III ECM with 2 x 70-pin rectangular connectors. How much labour is the KW shop talking..? Based on my prices above a short block would be $5250 and a long block around $9000. That gives $8750 in labour for a short block and $9000 for a long block. Surely one or other of the labour prices has to be wrong because there's far more work in the short block that there is in the long block- the head has to get swapped for a start.
Hi John, I have to agree with Nige...... That sounds like a pile of money to do that work! I noticed you are in Ohio and just guessing but your truck is at Hissong KW? If so, try Whiteford KW.... They have done several things for me and while they arent cheap they are willing to be reasonable with larger projects like yours. Thats a tough call what you have there.... We had a Volvo last year with a 3306 Cat that the rod went through the block. I found a 3306 out of the same year Volvo truck and the dealer said it would be a direct fit. As you can imagine that was not the case. Started out being $3000 labor for the engine swap and by the time it was over the bill was $5000. Several of the accessories wouldnt fit and had to be swapped over. Im just saying that if you chose the engine swap just be prepared that it probably wont be cut and dried..... Good luck
My KW has a std trans. The engine I am looking at had a automatic. I know bell housing and flywheel will have to be changed. Any other problems I should expect. Can I use my old ecm. I am sure the ecm off the automatic wouldn't work
John, If you're getting a replacement used engine post the Serial Number and I will be able to tell you what you what needs changing, at least on the engine anyway. There may be other accessories involved that don't show up on the engine arrangement, I can't help you with those. The best way to go would be use the ECM from your old engine so long as the 2 ECMs appear to be physically identical externally. That way you'll get the correct software for your engine. However you'll need to keep good records for the future because the replacement engine S/N will still indicate its former configuration, not how it's been modified to make it fit your KW.
I have had better luck swapping engines in 3126's then 3306's. The 3126 is usually just breathers , oil pans and mounts that are different whereas the 3306 can have different timing gears, water pumps , intakes ,flywheel housings and on and on. I would go with the swap out rather then repair unless you plan on keeping it for a long time to get the value out of a rebuilt. Theses engines are very sensitive to dirty oil also so I would never want any machining done on one in frame. It needs to be stripped and flushed after boring or sleeving to get the filings out. The heui will fail quickly if filings aren't cleaned out.
Nige: I don't think he gave me the right numbers, one is ok but don't think the other is here is the # he gave me CKM 48458 and AR201-6317, I don't know what that # is. So would this be a 70 pin?
John, those numbers tie up with one another. CKM48458 is arrangement Number 201-6317 which is a 210BHP @ 2200RPM engine originally installed in GMC truck/bus application. The one good thing is that both your existing engine CKM65522 and the proposed replacement both use the same 199-6049 "Core Engine", so there are no internals that will require changing. Also the engine electronic control ECM is the same Part Number and better still it has exactly the same Part Number of software installed in it. So you can use the ECM that comes with your replacement engine or the original ECM - they are exactly the same thing. As you'd expect there are a fair few differences between the 2 engines because they were installed in very different applications. I'll list the main ones below, if you want a full list send me a PM with your email address: - Crankshaft pulley & damper Flywheel housing & flywheel. Alternator, starter & their respective mountings. Fuel lines & fuel priming pump Water lines Air compressor & lines Engine oil lines & oil pan Turbo Fumes disposal (breather) lines Engine support
Thanks: (sent you my e-mail, send list) Picked up truck from Kw $1000 for taking the head off and $500 for towing. Going to pick up other engine tomorrow. Out of curiosity couldn't or shouldn't they have run a compression test before taking head off.
I would have, but it depends on whether they had the correct adapter to do the compression test. If they didn't it was probably easier to pull the head rather than waste time making an adapter. I just replied to your mail.