i bought a 3406 engine at a auction. The serial number is not legible . After researching the Internet by pictures I believe it's from a cat 983B loader. My problem is ordering parts for the engine like brackets and alternators , starter. Things like that. Is there anyway to find a serial number with out one visible ?
Could you start by posting a photo (or better still more than one) of the engine. Also post a good closeup photo of the Serial Number plate, even though some characters may not be legible we can probably guess at them from others that are legible. I think you need a minimum of 3 posts on HEF before you can post photos.
Thanks for your reply. I would be gland to post picture
Acetone works wonders on embossed/punched characters to make them readable
I am new to this site please bare with me. I am not sure how to send pictures. The only numbers I found on the block was a 4N1200. Which comes up from Cat as a governor part for a different engine.
Would anyone know what model 3406 engine the 983B had in it. I know the 983 had a 343 cat but the B model came with a 3406
The one out of your 983B track loader is not going to be set up the same as one in a truck. Pistons, cam, injection, etc. will be different. Here's some truck related babble on them: http://hankstruckforum.com/htforum/index.php?topic=193.0 I'm sure the basic block would be the same, and I'd guess the crankshaft too but little else.
S/N are often stamped into the block next to or maybe under the tag on many engines, might be faint but clean it off good and take a close look. But as said truck and loader engines are going to have many differences, depends on how many if this engine will work for you.
You also need the engine arrangement # if you are putting it back in the same machine. If you are using it for another purpose you need it's arrangement # if it was a Cat oem setup. Then you need the Performance spec # to set the proper power. Later Bob
As I said before ......... :witpic
LOL, cute Nige..... :cool2
I agree it's had to tell with out pictures. Unfortunately I am unable to post pictures on this bulletin at this time. There must be a time frame before they let someone post pictures ?
You should be able to post pictures.
You need to have 3 posts on the forum to be able to post photos. With 5 posts you should now be good to go.
Looks like a 245 setup. Later Bob
So here goes the detective work; I'm going to say that in my humble opinion it's not from an excavator due to the fact the air cleaner cover would be against the counterweight. What I would guess is that it may originally be from an OEM/genset/industrial application due to; a) Channel iron fabricated radiator mounts look non Cat. b) Ditto engine mounts. c) Small air cleaner. If there really can't be found any ID on the block (which I find hard to believe) then look for a part number on a component which may be fairly unique to this build.
I'm inclined to agree with Cmark, at least initially. Does that grey-painted assembly at the flywheel end have any Cat Part Numbers marked on it..? Also see if you can find a Part Number on the compressor housing of the turbo or if there is a number marked on that long curved pipe between the air cleaner assembly and the turbo inlet.
The gray you see is a twin disc transmission we mounted on the engine and removed the old housing. I will look into cat 345 models to try and pin point what a comparable serial number would be. Any idea on what year machine the 345 would be ?
If you post some Cat Part Numbers from a few parts as suggested above then between a few of us on here we can identify exactly what engine you have. Don't worry about a Serial Number for now, we can figure it out. It's been done a number of times before working from photos, but we need Part Numbers from items like the air intlet pipe and the turbo compressor housing. Bob/Ont thought it could have been an excavator engine from an 1980's-era 245 but the location and the very small size of the air cleaner (which would have hit the counterweight if installed in an excavator) led Cmark to suggest it was more likely an industrial or a generator set engine. I tend to agree with him.
Fuel pump - 4N388 Manifold cover - 4N4535
Exhaust manifold 4n270 Water pump 102-5946 Can't see any numbers on the turbo or air filter maybe after market ?
Is there anything on the air inlet line between the air filter and the turbo or maybe on the adapter that couples the same inlet line to the turbo..? Also can you post a photo of the side of the left side of the engine in the area where the guy in the black shirt is standing. I may have to apologise to Bob/Ont - it's looking very much like a 245 engine...... See diagram below.
This is what the air intake line looks like between the air filter and the turbo on the same model of 245 excavator.
Found a part number on the air pipe going to the turbo 4N9030 Also found a on the elbow 4N1130
Those are both on the pipework from the turbo to the inlet manifold. Items 1 & 3 on the diagram below. We're getting there - now down to only 3 options. 245 excavator, 16G motor grader, & 3406 Industrial engine. However the photo from the other side of the engine will probably be the clincher.
Nige.... post number 10.... good one. Poof... there is your clincher photo.
The I beam under the motor is something we did. But it's sitting on it original frame engine frame . The bell housing we took off Had 3 spots where hydraulic motors would have be driven ?
Got a photo of the bell housing..? Just for confirmation. That big long pipe going from the centre LH side of the engine to the air cleaner confirms it - 245 excavator. What you're looking at is what's inside the red circle on the diagram.
Does this look like the engine support..?
Post a pic of it please, sounds like a pump drive off of a 245 to me. Later Bob
Yep. It's from a 245. I was forgetting those early HEXs had back doors for access to the engine. Check out the 4N1368 radiator support on an 82X. What I can't pin down though is the tank above the FIP. Edit. Serial number may be an early 70V. If you scrape the paint off the top face of the fuel pump, you may be able to see the fuel spec stamped on it. It will probably look like 0T****. That might give some more clues.
Nige - yes those are the supports for the engine. Cmark- I don't understand that tank my self it's hooked you to the fuel pump some how. I never seen that before. Any idea what the serial number range would be ? Missing the alternator and the pulley. I would like to get a parts book on the engine as well thanks so much for the help!
Cmark, the 0T#### will be a cross reference as that machine is likely pre performance spec. The 245 was a low HP application. Next will need to find the power needs of the machine it is going into and then match it up to something Industrial, verify it's built heavy enough then do rack setting, spring and weight change over and set speeds. Sounds like a lot but it's pay now or pay more later. Later Bob
That tank is somebody's hand made fuel tank..... 1/2 hour run time.
Is the starter 12V or 24V? If it's from a 245, it would be 24V yeah?
Yes 24 volt starter
I'd like to see a pic of that too. The 245 Pump Drive had 3 hydraulic pumps mounted on it. Also as someone asked above, in what sort of application are you planning on using the engine and do you have any idea of how many BHP @ what RPM you are going to need..?
We are going to use the engine on a water pump. We will be running it at 1800 RPm max. I would think this engine has 350hp
If it's what we think from an early 245 it will have no more than 325BHP. We just need to narrow things down a bit to determine that conclusively.
Also bear in mind that it's rated for full BHP @ 2100 RPM. Running it at 1800 RPM will significantly lower the power output. Max torque on this engine arrangement is about 1,140 ft.lb. @ 1200RPM.
245 Full load is 2000 RPM. Raising or lowering that speed will change the HP you get. I raised the high idle up(100) to spec once and the full load went with it to 2100. The max HP tested with a flow meter was low, reduced speed back down with full load on spec and the HP was correct. Many 225's are repowered with 3208's out of trucks that have not had the fuel reset and are way over powered. No big problem in 225 but can badly damage some machines, 980A trans case for one. Later Bob
The pump curve for max water is 550 rpm running the engine at 1800 with a 3:1 transmission will give us max rpm if the motor starts to lag at 1800 we can speed it up to compensate for the Hp . Would changing the injector tips give us more hp? Still don't know if this engine is 70v serial number range or not
HP is controlled by rack travel and needs to be done carefully. Later Bob
On the old A model engines there should be a s/n stamped in the block where the s/n plates was. You will have to remove the paint though. Use paint stripper or gasket remover in a can to do this if you grind the paint off you may grind the number off. Also take the paint off the top of the fuel pump and get the group number off it and we can npr the number and it may give you a ball park s/n.
How about a photo of the engine S/N plate that you said was difficult to read..?
You can not see anything on the block that's legible! I will try and clean the paint off the top of the fuel pump like suggested
That may indicate that at some point in time the engine has been built with a replacement block which would not have a S/N since it came out of the Parts System. Usually the Serial Number is hand-stamped on the block directly underneath the plate location as a "belt & braces" just in case the plate ever gets lost. Is the S/N plate still there..? If so try removing it and see what's underneath the paint behind the plate, you have nothing to lose.
I have another question. Can you pull one of the valve covers and have a look at the fuel injectors. Are they pencil-type or does the engine have pre-combustion chambers..?
After looking on the web. Looks like the engine came out of a 1982 245 cat excavator by the looks of things
Serial number range 70v
I've already narrowed it down to Arrangement Number 4N-2255 but that engine arrangement had precombustion chambers in the very early engines and direct injection in later ones. Serial Number range is 70V1 to 70V3573 if it has precombustion chambers and 70V3574-70V5677 if it has direct injection.
I am going to pull the cover off today and take pictures for you thanks a bunch
I have taken the cover off but I see no part number
Cover off Cover off
Pre combustion Chamber engine. Later Bob
Just curious, what is that clipped on the jumper line?
Part of the Glow Plug harness. Later Bob
Therefore what you have is engine Arrangement Number 4N-2255 somewhere in the Serial Number range 70V1 to 70V3573.
Some type of clip holding a hose to dump the oil I would guess
If there are no cables passing through the clips in the photo in Post #57 then the glow plug wiring is not installed on your particular engine
Didn't the blocks have the serial stamped just below the spacer plate on the front left or right sides on a small machined flat area on those early engine? Maybe I am just remembering wrong.
Thanks for the help . Now I can order parts and now I getting the right stuff.
I should have mentioned that being in Florida you're not likely to need glow plugs for cold weather starting anyway ......... Going back to one of your earlier posts you said you wanted to run this engine at 1800RPM. To do that will require work done to the fuel injection pump settings. Do you have a competent fuel injection shop close by..?
Yes I know of 2 shops that do excellent work. Should I also change the injectors out ?
I would let the injection shop advise you on that one. Basically tell them you want to go from an engine that currently produces 325 BHP @ 2100 to 325 @ 1800. Also it might be worthwhile thinking about at what RPM you want max torque from your engine which would also govern what injectors you need. Any good injection shop should be able to advise you whether it is possible using the combination of pistons, turbo, & injectors that you currently have installed. When the recommendations come back post them here if you want any opinions.
Will do thanks
I want to hook up a caterpillar key switch on the engine. What's the easy way of going about it