hi all, I have a new Holland fx58, with a cat 3406 engine in it. It goes for about 30 acres then the engine losses power and turns off, temp light which is for both oil and coolant temp comes on. Engine is not running warm so I think it is a wiring problem. Has anyone ever came across this before?? A wiring diagram for the engine and a workshop manual would be greatly appreciated! Thank you
If you want technical information the first thing you need to supply is a engine Serial Number. There must be over 100 different varieties of 3406. Do you have an infra-Red thermometer.? If so shoot the temperatures of the top and bottom radiator hoses and post the results.
Hi, the guy fitted a new radiator and tested it with infra-red, said it’s running about 50c. So that’s ok. Serial number below, thanks.
That's a 3406E.You will have to get a wiring diagram from New Holland .Cat will have a motor book. Bob
Hi bob, thanks, I have the new Holland repair manual, but because the fx58 is the only one fitted with a cat engine there is very little wiring info on the engine thanks
Is there any kind of monitor in the cab which can read fault codes? As a general rule, Cat doesn't program their engines to shut down in response to an event. If the engine is shutting down you can be fairly confident that the machine is telling it to.
Do this! You need to know what the temp differential is from top to bottom. This will help narrow the search field.
I'm with Cmark on this one. The biggest probability is that there will be a signal from somewhere on the machine telling the engine to shut down. However it may be possible by temporarily disconnecting a wire to disable that shutdown feature on the engine to prove that the engine itself is fine. Attached the Electrical Schematic for your engine. If you look on page 2 at the Engine ECM connections you will find Pin 8 on Connector J1 titled "Remote Shutdown Switch", wire number is F718 White. I'm willing to bet that New Holland have put something in their monitor system that closes a switch somewhere and connects that pin to ground. As soon as that happens the engine will shut off. A common use of that shutdown feature is for automatically-activated fire suppression systems that need the engine stopped before the system discharges.
Actually no it isn't. It's about 30-40 degrees C too cold. Should be running in around the 80-90C range. With an engine shutdown for "high coolant temperature" then obviously that proves the temperature is actually not too high, but it is also worrying that it's so low. Again I will suggest, try shooting the temps of the top hose and the bottom hose and post some actual numbers. Also while you're in there take the temp of the thermostat housing and post that as well.
I missed that 50ºC wouldn't be even warm enough for a cup of coffee!
Thanks guys, I think I have it narrowed down, to the oil temp sensor in the sump, which New Holland added on. I replaced the wire to ecu and sensor but maybe the oil is actually running hot. Have to wait till the 2nd cut of grass to see. Does the oil coolers ever give much trouble? Possibly blocked?
Not unless you've had a major engine failure at some time. Usually the SOP is to replace the cooler any time the engine is overhauled. The only other reason would be if there was coolant in the oil or oil in the radiator.
Just out of curiosity guys, when testing say, the coolant temp sensor on this engine, what should I get on each terminal, obviously 5v is the supply, what should I get on the return wire and the signal wire? Thanks guys u have been very helpful!
These sensors do not output a voltage. They are known as PWM or Pulse Width Modulated. To measure the signal from one of these sensors you need a digital multimeter capable of measuring duty cycle, something like a Fluke 87. Measure the supply voltage between the +5V and the return terminal, NOT between the +5v and machine frame ground. The 5V is supplied by, and grounded back to, the ECM. From memory I think the tolerance is +/- 0.25v but don't quote me on that. There will be a voltage between the sensor output wire and ground, but in the case of a PWM sensor it means nothing apart from a few specific diagnostic circumstances which the ECM diagnoses and throws up a Fault Code. For a more detailed explanation of PWM, see here - the only difference is the supply voltage 8v vs 5v, but the operating principle of the sensors is identical. HeavyEquipmentForums
Thanks Nige, much appreciated!
Another couple of snippets while I think about it. 1. To test the supply voltage the sensor should be disconnected from the machine harness. Measure the voltage between Pin A & Pin B on the LH (machine) half of the connector in the illustration below. 2. To test the duty cycle the sensor should be connected to the machine harness with the power on. Measure the duty cycle between Pin B & Pin C. To do this will require a pair of connectors for the multimeter commonly referred to as "spoons". They are curved to the shape of the wire insulation and can be slid down the outside of each wire into the back of a connector until they contact the metal pin inside the connector. Something like this - https://www.aeswave.com/Spoon-Probe-Backprobers-p9702.html
Thanks a lot for all your help guys!
The C15(successor to the 3406E) has a contact temp sensor in the thermostat housing. Wax bulb type similar to a Kysor Stat unit set to 225 degrees F. Single wire and I suspect is some form of shutdown mechanism as not CAT related. Just goes to ground and I have not acquired the KW wiring diagrams yet to know if is a auto shut down component.
if the three wire sensor has a 5 volt supply it is an analog sensor and the signal will be measured in volts DC usually the range is between 1 and 4.5 v volts if the three wire sensor has an 8 volt supply it is a digital sensor and the signal will PWM and can be measured on the duty cycle setting on a multi-meter
Good point Mark. I had forgotten about analogue sensors being 5v.