Happened upon one of each working on a road job couple day's ago.Both nearly new,and looked like they were up to the job.The Hitachi specs say it sit's around 103,000lbs,the Cat around 100,500lbs. Where would the extra 3,000lbs be located on the Hitachi?The Isuzu engine in the Hitachi has more displacement than the Cat engine,but the Hitachi overall seems heavier built. Any views on which is the better of the two? Dominion:canada
3000 pounds is not a big deal when dealing with that size of machine i have found that cat is always a heavier machine, but when you are looking at specks, they are only as good as the buckets or attachments and pad sizes that are on the machines, when their weights are taken , there can be 3,000lbs difference in the stick sises if the hitachi has a long one and the cat has a short. As for the better machine i would bet that the hitachi would eat the cat, in total points but you cant beat a cat's brute force. The hitachi's are definately a smoother and faster machine. (in my opinion)
I have ridden in both hitachi and big cat machines and in my opinion hitachi is the one for me
345/450 I re-read the Hitachi specs, it say's 106,000lbs. The Cat spec's weigh it at 100,048lbs. with fixed track frames, the variable guage undercarriage,the 345 is at 108,000lbs.Perhaps Hitachi is including the variable guage bottom in their weight specs.If they are both weighing them with fixed track frames,6,000 lbs is a bit of a difference. Dominion:canada
Hitachi all the way! With Cat you could get a good one or a lemon or anything in between. Hitachi seems to be more consistent... IMO
Some numbers I've seen indicate the 345D, in high-production mode, will eat any of its current competition at the expense of fuel consumption. In one of its economy modes, performance is about on-par with a single-digit fuel economy advantage to the Cat. Of course, some may call those numbers biased... ***
That's what the 380 HP engine accomplishes. I've never run a 345D or a ZX450-3, but I've run a 345C for a bit and I was very impressed by its speed and controllability. CAT's quality for the 312-345 models is also fairly consistent. On the other hand, 365-385s are hit and miss quality wise. Hitachi's the way to go for bigger stuff.
Id be very interested to see this debate. I have heard a lot of complaints about the 345C model, but the 345D seems to be revamped in comparison. Any more thoughts on this?
345/450 Would like to try both in similar configuration pulling a trench box,twenty feet deep in a hard-pan trench.We had a 345C on rent last year,and while it was comfortable in the cab,I found it was light in the counter-weight.Perhaps the variable guage bottom would help in that area.Had three 5800 Link-Belts,and they had better balance than the 345.Anyone I talked to who have operated the ZX450-3,or the Deere 450D said they are real strong.Have never heard or reliabilty issues with either the Isuzu engines,or any other component on the Hitachi. Dominion:canada
excav.operator I am a cat. excavator operator and have been for over 30 years. As well I have done field and shop maint. to these machines. First your weight differance is in the hydro. pump. Take a gander at the differences in the sizes from machine to machine. I am a tried a true believer in cat. and only cat. Sure you can buy a komatsu or kobelco, linkbelt or what have you for much less, but the performance is nothing compared to a cat. Im not talking about brand new as they are pretty much the same, Im talking about 1500 hours or more. cat will beat all others. I have operated every name brand out there. The hydrolics are one third the size, also cat machines, the hydrolics can be tuned up 10 to 30% for more production without any other problems. Do that to any other machine and parts fly. I personally have put on demonstrations using cats and other name brands. cat always comes out on top. They last longer. down time is less, cost factor is less, break downs are less. fuel consumption is less. I have used smaller cat machines that out do bigger, other name brand machines. I have worked all over the U.S.A. from Montana originally. I have worked in all climates, soils, terrains - rocky mountains, bitter root, cascades to swamps in Louisiana. Parked tracked machines on rail road ties in winter and break frost ground each a.m. to continue the projects works. Cat. is the only machine that can handle the abuse and the needs of everydays works. I do not work for cat., never have, never owner a company but I have been the man that sits in the seet for 10 to 18 hour days and put the machines to test. I will go cat anytime, anywhere.
Its like this. NOTHING RUNS LIKE A DEERE WITH A CAT ON ITS AZZ!
Well I guess ACE excav.operator has put this debate to bed. While our excavators in our logging operation are not in the 45 tonne class being discussed here, I can add that the Hitachi and the Cat have each earned the respect of the crew and management. They pioneer road, install bridges, rehab gravel pits at 40 degree angles, 90 degrees above or 35 below freezing. They get shown little mercy and are usually working flat out. Parts are available overnight from either Deere or Cat, or next full day if the Hitachi needs a Hitachi-specific part. Production favours the Cat, but it also has the highball operator and a thumb. Really, we aren't that brand specific when it comes to hoes - Cat, Deere/Hitachi have impressed and made us $$$. Our primary business is logging, and that is where we get brand specific - Tigercat bunchers and nothing else. Performance in the application, uptime and parts availability are key, and both machines are equal in my eyes there. Resale value is not important, as we run them 'till they're done, and sell them by the tonne. (Anybody need any 690 parts before it goes to the scrap yard?)
As an owner over 65 item of earth-moving equipment and predominately CAT i would say when it comes to excavators i would have to forget my pride and say the Hitachi ZX 450 LC3 any day ........Its easy to fall in love with the name and say nothing will beat it but when your responsible for the survival of an organisation wisdom beat pride:thumbsup ......Think you will find that Doosan/Daewoo 420 run the same Rexroth Hyd pump as the CAT 345 and they are a 8000Hr rebuild item if you are lucky. If Your Willing to move and work up to 18hrs a day i will give you a job any day however it will be on a Hitachi :thumbsup
That would be because Deere's out front, and Cat's running behind.
I have a 345C L, deere has been chasing me around trying to demo there 450D LC. So they brouht it over.. It couldnt work 9hrs on a tank of fuel, and was tipsy with a 4.2 cu/yd bucket, prolly moved 3/4 of the dirt the cat did. I can Load 5,500 truck yards and still have 2 bars of diesel left with 345. I now have 4,600 hrs on it, and not one breakdown...
Comparisons Ace Excavator Operator (Apparently his own Tag) is a common example of those operators who are still living on the laurels of Caterpillars reputation back in the 1950's thru early 1970's when Cat was a dominant Manufacturer in Excavators. Today we have Hitachi and Komatsu whom I believe are the Best Products followed by John Deere and Linkbelt/Sumitomo. I know several years ago both Hitachi and John Deere entered into an aggrement where Hitachi Produced most of the Major Components for John Deere (execpt Engines for several Years which is why I prefer the Hitachi - Isuzu versus Deere) Linkbelt/Sumitomo also now utilize Isuzu Engines in many Models) I have run all these Machines in extreme Digging Conditions from the Hard Rock of the Canadian Shield and Related Extreme Cold (Minus 45+) to Hot high 30's to low 40's (High 90's to low 100's) in Rock and Light Digging (Sand & Soil) In terms of Cycle Time, Ease of Hydraulics, and Fuel Consumption Hitachi is far and away a Better Machine. As far as repairs it has been my experiance that the Hitachi, Cat, John Deere and Komatsu are all roughly the same as far as repair costs go altougth I have found that Cat and Komatsu Parts can be considerably more expensive (Especially in regards to OEM) ANYWAY AT 15,000 TO 18,0000 Hours all these machines are basically done, you either bite it and dole out some big cash for a major over hall or sell them for Parts or Scrap-Simple!
I`m not sure who decides on machine weight, but there is no acroos the board weight comparison to Cat VS Hitachi or anybody else. One always ends up heavier than the other so it always leaves one at a disadvantage. If you think Hitachi won`t keep up or out dig the Cat, you haven`t found the right person to set the hydraulics to spec. The only issue I ever came across was that Komatsu wold pull itself into the trench when it couldn`t lift the trench box and the Hitachi just couldn`t pull it. It actually took both machines to move the box.
I've been a hitachi man through and through, machine I operate is a zx330lc-3 no other 30 tonne machine comes close to performance speed and durability. I've never like cat diggers but the current machine I am operating witch is a 336DL with a tilt bucket is a decent machine. Nothing like its predecessor B or C series witch were strong but could not keep up with hitachi or komatsu for that mater.
The company I work for had nothing but 345 b and c models before we changed over to 349e. I have tons of hours in the 345s and I can tell you it's a great machine. The counterweight is a few thousand lbs heavier on the c model. Our ME machines swing a 5 yard bucket and have no problem digging and will only tip over if you have it extended all the way out. Same goes for the long stick versions with the 4 yard bucket and quick coupler. I believe our 345c lme variable uc weighs around 108k lbs, the long stick with normal uc is 100k-104k depending on stick size. Not much down time with them and they take a beating. We had one that the hydraulics were turned up on and that had crazy power. Never ran a 45 ton hitachi but the Japan machines always appear to be under built compared to cat. I bet with 10000 hours on them the cat is in 50 times better shape.
How is your company liking the new 349e? Have you ran any other brand of 50 ton hoe? Thanks for your input!
Some like them, some don't. I don't know what the fuel savings are (if any) and they are new so we haven't had breakdowns. I personally don't like them. Controls are jerky and I don't think it has any more hyd power than the 345s. Plus it looks and sounds goofy. It's basically a glorified 345 with emissions and a few extra tons so they could slap a diff number on it. I must say the cab is nice tho. I don't think they are going to be pretty when they have 5-10k hours on them with all the electronics now a days.
I am pretty sure ever since the 345b's, every series (minus maybe C->D) in the 45 ton class has gotten heavier in cat's line up. Some of the later 345d's were actually tagged as 349D's too (Australian market?), much like the 330/336D's... Part of the jerkiness is that electronic controls, I've noticed Cat (and even JD) dozers are like that too, but one silver lining to all that electronic stuff is that you can usually tweak the settings in the computer without much trouble to get rid of the jerkiness (most of it anyway). I think every one of our 349's have had one or two sensor issues with the regen systems, but those were ironed out pretty quickly in the beginning. I haven't gotten to run any Deere-tachi's, though I haven't heard any bad things about them, but either one has to be better than a komatsu though:drinkup
Agreed, anything is better than a Komatsu. We have a new PC390 and it sux. Nobody likes it. We just demo'd a new PC210 and it's clear we won't be buying any. Most of our operators really like the Hitachi's. We've only bought one new Cat and it was a 365C and it was ok but the guys didn't like the controls and the dealer never could get them ironed out. We have a bunch of Zaxis and Zaxis-5 machines, I get very few complaints. We keep them for about 10k hours and they still operate very well w/o major issues. Can't say that about our PC300-6 or PC400-7 though. I will say that every one of our guys will say their favorite machine was the Zaxis 450LC. Traded it in on the 365 at 9000hrs and we should have never got rid of it. We Demo'd a ZX380-5 right after we bought the new PC390 and the 380 was a much better machine. It's really all about what you're doing with them as to which ones shine and which ones flail.