Hi all. Been looking at upgrading our scraper and have come across a cat60 flat bottom. Just wondering if they are as good as I have been told and if my CaseIH 9230 will pull it OK. The tractor has 235 engine hp 177 drawbar hp and 12 speed powershift transmission. I can add about another 1200 lbs of cast weight safely to the tractor to help out with traction. I want to do some ditching and fill some low spots and then haul some fill into my bin yard which will be about a 2 mile trip one way so im wanting to be able to move along at a decent road speed. Eventually I want to find an older Cat challenger to pull the scraper with as I will have a lot of deep ditches to make and clean out so not having duals on the tractor to deal with will be a lot more user friendly and cheaper on tires. Is this a good choice for a scraper or is there a better option out there within the $20,000.00 range? Thanks.
First thing, what is the tread width of your tractor compared to the cut width of the scraper. A Cat No. 60 was designed to match up to the tread width of a D6. If the tractor tread width is wider you will have problems in the cut. I don't know what you CaseIH 9230 weight is. Depending upon the kind of ground your are going to be working in you may wind up needing a push Cat to load. As far is moving at decent road speed, the Cat No. 60 will pull just fine. Since lowering the pan is the only brakes you will have on the pan you will have to be careful when you want to stop or start down an incline. I don't know what the weight of a No. 60 loaded is but when I had my No. 80's was close to 80,000 pounds and No. 70 was in the 52,000 pound range. I pulled No. 80s with D8K and D8H with 300 HP spacer plate engine and No. 70 with D7G and 200 HP 3306. I have pulled my pans behind quad axle dump truck for short moves between job or where could not get in with lowboy. Have moved them at up to 40 MPH empty that way no problem.
Thanks Greg. My 9230 weighs in right around the 26,500 lbs without the extra weight. As far as the wheel tread goes I have bar axles so if I had to I could always widen the tractor to straddle the cut if the duals cause a problem, not ideal but may work for now. Our ground here is funny, the top 6 to 18 inches is black heavy loam which loads easily but get down a foot or two and we hit yellow clay which when wet is slippery and sticky as all sin but when dry can be like cement or nice and mallow. Get down another 5 feet and we have blue clay that is firm and damp and peels up like large slabs of leather but after driving over the same place a couple times it turns to muck with no bottom. This blue clay can be found in some lower areas just beneath the black top soil and believe me if its wet and you brake the crust your sunk. I have been considering a lot of other types of scrapers but so far from my findings the Cat seem to be the best suited for our soil mix and seem to be built durable to last a long time.
Here's how to compare sizes of the old Cat's to scrapers built today, heaped loads: Cat 60-9yd, Cat 70-13yd and a Cat 80-18-29yd Your tractor will pull the Cat 60 fine and don't worry about your tractor tire width; it would be very unusual for your width to hinder what you will be doing. The old Cat's will pull like lead sleds compared to good hydrualic ejects built today. With your tractor in almost all conditions, you could pull a good modern 13-14 yard scraper (heaped). For what a good conversion would cost on a Cat 60 with VG tires, I wouldn't waste my money on it when you could pull a much larger scraper with some xtra dollars.
Yair . . . Hello Toreq . That's interesting. Any theories as to why that would be so? Geometry perhaps, angle of cutting edge? You would wonder why it would make a lot of difference . . . although as others on here have noted it seems green-lizards load easier than Cats. I always thought it was my imagination. Easiest loading scoop I ever pulled had a curved bottom that was hinged just behind the cutting edge, it lifted up and tilted forward to tip, I think it was a Wooldrige (spelling?) not so good emptying in wet and sticky clay though. Cheers.
I was pulling a 60 with a John Deere 8570.It is 250 hp and has 18.4 x 38 radials and weighs 29000 lbs.It would load a full bucket on a long run but was not enough tractor a lot of times.I now have a 300 hp 8760 with bigger tires and it is a better match.I find I need to add air to the tires for scraper work.There are times in a ditch where the outside duals carry all the weight and have had tires pushed of the bead.The 60 will start bouncing with a load in the field but is ok on the road for hauling.
Scrub Puller, it is the angle of cut. Think of it this way, it's a lot easier to push something up a 29 degree slope than a 45 degree slope. When it comes to sand, it's even worse because it doesn't ribbon. The sand won't make it pull harder, it just won't go in as easy. I load a 13-14 yd scraper with a 215 HP MFD. A Cat 60, only 9yds, would load harder than the bigger scrapers I pull. The old cable scrapers were pulled by dozers that didn't lack for traction. A 150 HP dozer will load todays 13-18yd scrapers. The old steep angle cut scrapers will go into shale better than most scrapers being built today. You noticed I said good hydraulic eject scrapers. There are some scrapers being built today that have steep angles of cut and load like lead sleds. BTW, what's a green lizard?
Green Lizzard is slang for a Terex scraper.
i have a cat 60 i pull with my st251 steiger.im more traction limited then power,,,,, and i agree with toreq about the pitch on the cutting edge,,, its is pretty steep and does make it load hard. i gave 8000 for mine and it is pretty solid..
Well I finally came across a nice Cat 60 round bottom the other day, it is fully converted to hydraulic and has next to new tires. The scraper is in really nice shape, not bent or banged up like a lot that I have seen, and has a brand new cutting edge with the sticker still on it. Around here any decent scraper that is 6 to 8 yards regardless of make will bring between $8,000 and $12,000 with the exception of the cable conversion machines which run into the high 20s or low 30s. This one I paid $18,500 for and am happy with the price as most cat 60s that have been converted are going around the $22,000 to $26,000 range around here. As for my 9230 I spoke with a fellow who runs a 9330 on a cat 70 and says the only time he has issues is if the ground is really wet and then traction is his issue. I have found a set of 30.5x32 tires and rims that will fit my tractor and am just trying to make a deal/trade with the fellow for my 18.4x34 duals now. The big singles will be an added bonus come harvest time as well for pulling the grain cart and getting close to the combine. I guess in a few days ( weather permitting ) I will find out just how good things are going to work for me and if I made the right decision.
That's not too bad for a price, especially if it is in as good a shape as you say. Ritchie had 3 or 4 CAT70's and CAT80's (hyd conversions) in auctions this spring East of Yorkton. They ran in the $25,000-30,000 range. We paid $18,000 for our CAT70 in 2011. Needed new cutting edges ($1,000). Hydraulic cylinders leaked. Had them redone for another $1,000. Tires aren't great, but they are holding air for now... We used to pull a neighbour's CAT70 with a JD8640 (~275 hp), then with JD8760 (~325hp). Pulling our current one with JD9400 (425hp). Traction is the issue with ag tractors, not HP. If you can add some weights, or tubes & fluid, it'll pull better. We have fluid in the rear 4 tires on our 9400, but no cast weights. 20.8x42's. Works a lot better if we have our JD9300 w/ blade working in the same pot-hole. I usually run the blade, so I'll zip over and push him as he loads. Then I can go back to pushing trees, rocks, etc until he gets back from dumping. (Usually filling in a pot-hole somewhere within a few hundred yards.) Andrew
So how did it work out ironage? I'm betting you're happy with the 60 round. If you're short on traction pulling it, you can reduce the blade angle by placing flat iron on the front edge and bolting the blades back on
Well to be very honest that so called good scraper had a few issues. For starters all the hoses were 1//2" which made it extremely slow reacting so I changed over to 3/4" which helped a fair bit. The other major problem I ran into was the floor and sides. They looked good and sound but when I went to weld up a couple small cracks I found out just how thin they were so I spent about a week off and on cutting pieces out and replacing them with new material. When the hyd conversion was done whoever did it sure wasn't thinking. The hyd cylinders to raise and lower the bowl were set up so the max depth of cut would be 2"s and the cutting edge would lift over 2 feet off the ground so I repositioned the cylinders to give about a 10" cut and a lift of around 16"s. Overall it was a bit more work then I had hoped for but now I should have a decent machine for my use. Haven't had it in the dirt yet but hoping to try it out this week and bring some fill in for the new grain bins.
Wow, they sure screwed up on the lift cylinders. Maybe someone replaced the proper cylinders with shorter ones? I'm pretty sure my scrapers are just 1/2" lines, same as what comes on most machinery, but bigger sure wont hurt. How is the apron lift configured? That's my next concern if some goofball did the conversion. And to clarify what I meant about the blade angle, the flat iron shims would get sandwiched between the blade and the frog, changing the blade angle.