I'm looking for opinions if a 6N matched up to a 70 round bottom would work. I know the 70 was designed for the old D7's, say a D7 17A at 123hp and 26000lbs weight, so I'm looking for thoughts on a D6N at 160 hp and 40000ish lbs. I know a D6R would be preferable, but I have a line on a reasonably priced N.
Tread width has a lot to do with putting a pan behind a Cat. The width of the No. 70's was specific for the D7 undercarriage. Same for the NO. 80 and D8's. You may be a bit narrow and may be a bit shy on track surface on the ground with a D6N when you try to pull a No. 70 with it. I would look for a N0.60 to go behind it and also look for a flat bottom rather then a round bottom pan.
Sorry for quoting, I don't know how to reply without it. The D6N I am looking at and referring to is an LGP model, outside width looks on Ritchiespecs to be 8.2 ft, maybe a bit too much, but at this stage of the game, I can't own a machine for every task, so I may have to deal with it! Not being rude, just not knowing, why a flat bottom over a round? I believed after reading online a round was easier to pull. That aside, I already own the 70 round, may have to lump that too! Also TS performance and others have chips to give HP increases up to 30% for the 6N, anyone with experience on those?
Don't chip them up, good way to burn up turbos and torque convertors. A truck engine can live chipped up but the long heavy load of a dozer hauling a scraper will melt stuff quick.
A few things I dont understand here, so please help me and excuse my " lack of " on a few points, the round bottom CAT 70, I thought they only came with a flat bottom with ether straight or stinger edge setup?? a D6N with LGP plates pulling a box ( U.K. way of saying Pan or Bin) sounds like just the wrong way to go for this sort of work, the CAT 70 box-pan-bin call it what you like is the ideal thing hitched behind a D7E/F/G tractor that has a good amount of size and beans to pull it well, a D6N aint' got the beans or the weight to realy make things happen well, so a CAT 60 or similar unit would be the best route, anyhow back to this round bottom CAT 70 any chance of a pic or 2 as I have not seen any, oh and try to avoid LGP tractors on this sort of work as to wide a plate causes nothing but trouble.
A link to explain scrapers: http://stevevoightman.com/products_15.html Understood LGP is not the "ultimate" for scraper applications, my intentions are not for 300 days per yr. of dirt moving, if it comes to that I will need a second machine. My goal is to have a dozer for multiple uses, pro-con examples: LGP is good for soft and winter freezing types of work - D7 Not so 6 way blade is great for finishing - D7 - not so Cab and creature comforts - D7 - definitely not so LOL D7, agreed the best unit scraper operations. Thanks for all input, but even writing this, I have made up my mind. If it does not work at all behind the 6N, I will have to pick up an old farm tractor and push load with the 6.
I wouldnt be to worried about it Komatkaze, as long as our carefull in the steep going you should be right. I worked on a job with D7h swampy that pulled 15m kokadu, went just as good as the other 5 D7h`s on standard tracks, probably just a bit harder on the track gear. Size wise it wouldnt be any different to blokes over here pulling a cat 40 behind a D31, seen that a few times, they seem to handle them alright.
I have flat bottoms here, would not want a round bottom. Flat bottom keeps the cut area in pretty good shate without a dozer to keep cleaning it up with the kind of cuts a round bottom takes. The wider tread of the D6N LGP is just going to agrevate things worse with the round bottom pan.
All those early scrapers the rear axle was just spindle mounted; and the later series are straddle mounted with inner and outer supports. I have seen early 60 and 70s that definetly had flat bottoms. But have never seen a curved bottom one, so don,t know if this was optional or if the owners modified them over the years. fwiw. Is very little difference in size between a early 70 and late 60. Your D6N should handle it ok. Have got a late 70 i tow behind my D6D; my oposition has a no15 behind his D6D. And was another contractor towed a late 70 behind a old 120hp 76A D6C. All handled them ok. Yes a D7 EFG would handle them easier, but the 435 was there matched scoop too. If its difficult going i just take lesser loads. But in our clay can still load it in a minute. And that beats any similar sized truck digger combo. can see a 'tombstone' of solid clay sticking up in bowl of my pic. But as others have said, biggest thing is cut width has to match your tractor width, otherwise you get all sorts of problems, unless your working in wide flat areas like topsoil stripping.
Question for you too TC. Know Birtley [uk cat scrapers] made the 70 80 and 15; but did they also make the 40 and 60 there also ? Alot of there stuff came here, but have never seen a Birtley 60 or 40 in nz. Mines a birtley 70. Curious if youve seen any in your travels Wright in south africa made 40s and a few found there way here, and are great tools behind a small dozer too..
do the older 70`s have the curved cutting edge like the older 60s ?
I won't speak for the masses, but yes I do believe all "spindle mounted" rear axles are round bottoms. And yes the cutting edge is curved, dished down i will estimate about 3 inches, but I could stand to be corrected. Mine has a cutting edge that corrects for this "dished cut" and this is not uncommon here. I'm not trying to reinvent scraper use, but we need to be honest, newer power units are necessary, old tractors are not competitive these days. I wish I could have 6 units waiting for work, but the fact is the "old days" where that kind of thing was affordable are gone. None the less, learn from the past, there is situations where a cat and scraper make the most sense. Trying to make use of these old "dolly" scraper units, with a all purpose dozer is what we have left. If I was in the mass bulking business, big ag tractors and huge pans are simply the cheapest cost per yard. To try be a small guy, sometimes you need to deal with less than perfect.
We all gotta 'run what me brung' mate, us little guys have to make do with what we have. So go for it. :drinkup Cat may have had a mod to change curved mouths to square ones. Definetly know one spindle mounted rear wheel 60 scraper i saw had a square cutting edge. La plante choate/allis chalmers also had bell mouthed cutting edges on early 108 scrapers, and these are also supposed to be a very good scraper. Roly Billings in the UK has some great videos of his D6c,s towing both these scrapers on youtube, under D6 and scrapers. just had a lazy sunday afternoon looking at some of his videos while having a bbq and beer ! Let us know how you get on; cheers from the bottom of the world; merv
I had three Cat no. 80's and one No. 70 all spindle mounted with flat bottoms. I have seen the round bottom but never used one. I have done pretty damn good with D7's and D8's pulling "dolly" scrapers as long as I didn't try to stretch out beyond 2,800 to 3,000 feet haul. If I were in the mass bulking business it would be Cat rubber tired self propelled scrapers. I can't see my way around the big ag tractors because of the problems they start having 3 to 4,000 hours in from everything I have seen and heard.
Merv and Co, I have never seen a round bottom scraper in the U.K. so I have no knowledge of them? I would think Birtley would have built the full range of Iron for the CAT Tractors of the time, the Birtley Blades are common place here, the other scraper models to be found are the R.G.L's I have a super rare 1 of these in mint nick that hooks up behind my 3T, then there is the Empire Box that has the spring pipe and closed top, the common scraper to find is the Onions (Vickers) outfits, the 1's to have being the open bowl style fitted with greedy boards (side extenders) the weak point being the turn clevis, CAT use a ball hitch in this position, but I still think a D6M/N the difference is realy only the letter after the 6 and is nothing more than a D5H will lack the beans to pull a 70 with any "Gun Smoke"
Use link below to see what myself and others call "round bottom". My cutting edge is the same as these pictures, but on the bottom of the edge, where it cuts, is straight all the way across. http://www.purplewave.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?120209/B2576/14
For what it's worth, I looked a little further, looking for pictures I have found another Internet auction site! (i really didn't need that, more time stuck to this computer, LOL) But here is what I call a flat bottom with a "stinger bit" cutting edge. A straight edge, but a lower center bit. http://www.purplewave.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?120209/B2575/12
Komatkaze and Greg, I grew up hearing the older men talk about "round bottom pans" and never knew there was that much of a difference. I learned something from this thread, thanks. :drinkup That's why I love this forum.
I did not see anyone post a picture of a true round bottom on here yet, and I don't have one. On a round bottom, it is just that. The floor has a pretty steep round radius to it. The photo on the link above has a radius on the cutting edge but not on the floor of the pan like a truce round bottom does. They may pull easier but they have to leave a mess in the cut after a few passes.
Not that I've seen it all, but these are the only Caterpillar designs that have ever been known to me. All "spindle" machines I have known have this "radius" cutting edge that is commonly called "round bottom". This may have been modified on some, but not by cat. The cutting edges can compensate with design to achieve a flat cut. I would be interested to see a curved floor machine, especially with a moving ejector, my mind races to figure how the material would come out? To you guys across the pond, I did hear from the old boys B.S.'ing that the round bottom units were made in England, but I have nothing to back that up. This was discussion time, late in the evening, usually at 1/2 empty bottles, right before we would discuss who was the best scraper hand!
All round bottom scrapers have canti-lever wheels on back - flat bottoms do not.
komatkaze,lucky for the beer drinkers in the U.K. we drink out of big Beer Mugs that help with hand to mouth skills, knowing that a round bottom scraper is going to be no good on this Rock, if we made em' we must have sent them all to the U.S.A. as I have never seen any or ever hear of 1 before, I will admit that their must be a use for them somewhere with possibly a good advantage somehow, but the U.K. would have little time for such an item as we like our work to be flat level and crack on, plus I am just getting used to Steel Hydraulics (Cable) and CCU's and have yet to warm to wet line tractor scraper outfits, CCu's are making a come-back
Alright, I will post this last time and only monitor the thread untill someone shows me a picture of what a round bottom Caterpillar scraper is. To me, flat bottom is a straight Cutting edge, with a straddle mounted rear axle. Round bottom is a curved cutting edge with a "spindle" or more correctly as stated, " cantilever" mounted axle. Off topic as this is, I began with tractor/scraper combos, and have those opinions, to those that contributed - Thank you. I'm at work, it's Monday, I have enough nonsense here.
The same but different.
Flat bottom above ( straight cutting edge, where the centre can be stepped or depends on what part of the world your from stinger or what ever ). Round bottom ( curved cutting edge ).
pic for Brainzie; D6D with AC TS200 scraper. HD6ep pushing :drinkup
Just looking at the pics of the one thats forsale, the botton of the bowl floor is flat its only the cutting edge sections that are making it curved and I guess u could make it any shape u want just by changing the edge sections. Spent many years towing Onoins 8/11yd behind TD 15 & 20 and later on Cat 80 & 463 behind TD 25Bs, allways used to use a steped edge ie centre section dropped down, made for much easier loading. Cheers RDG.
We used to pull a flat bottem # 70 with a D6H series 2.Did pretty well,also had a TD20C International hooked to it for alittle while.The company also had a #90 which was very big.I pulled it many times.