Good evening everyone. I bought a Cat 931 series 78U. The right side does not steer. The left side works. I tried to remove the bulb as in the photo and everything seems ok. The springs inside are also perfect. When I press the right pedal the left track also stops, this is strange. What could I check? I have to say that pushing the pile of earth has a lot of force.The tracks rotate well and with force.Pressing the central brake stops everything.Pressing the right pedal also stops the left track. I really don't know what to do or check. I attach some photos. Thank you very much everyone.
Look at wear on stem on valve (second picture) also look for wear on linkage that pushes on the stem
Hi thanks. Yes I disassembled it and the stem and springs seem to be in excellent condition. I can't explain the fact that by pushing the right pedal all the way down, that is by applying the brake, the left track stops...
It's actually pretty simple if the right clutch does not disengage it is stopping both sides because both clutches are engaged applying brake on one drum effects both sides . try comparing right stem to left stem
Yes I was thinking about comparing the stems. Is the spring inside so important? That is, does it have to be stiff enough?
Spring usually isn’t the problem with those valves the stems and wear in the pedal linkage is usually the problem the pressure tap for clutch slave cylinder is on the outside of frame in a little recess in the frame if nothing else you could swap valves side to side you will have to adjust fittings to make it work on other side
Ok. You say to put the left valve instead of the right one? Do a test in short. I don't understand what you mean by the recess outside the frame. Thank you very much for your help. Unfortunately I don't know this track loader.
Look on the outside of frame by the track there will be a plug in a pocket if I remember right it is 7/16 inch or 11m/m and yes put left valve on right side you can just connect lines to the right valve on the left side you don’t need to install it on linkage to see if left valve will work the right side
Hi. I swapped the valves from right to left. Nothing changed. Maybe I need to see the right clutch under the cover...♂️
Yes could be a couple things 1 the throw out bearing could have failed 2 rod from throw out yoke to slave cylinder broke. To get the cover off you will have to remove linkage from lever on top of cover remove 4 bolts from housing that lever is in lift up cover remove pin then you can remove top cover
Here is a few pictures of a 78U steering assembly. Sorry,I don't have any disassembled pictures.
Update. I reversed the valves from left to right. I tried to use the crawler but nothing changed. The right side does not detach. I disassembled the entire cover etc. Inside everything seems to be in good condition. I turned on the engine and did the test, inside nothing moves. What could it be? The oil comes from the tube inside the box. Attached some photos.
I disconnected the hydraulic piston. Should the clutch stay like this? could it be stuck?
Has this machine not been used for a long time? Yes piston will stay out. But it has to have moved in to get the rod out And yes the clutch could be stuck
When the clutch is released the bolt on the yoke on the side away from piston will be against the case
Hi Thanks. I don't understand well. The default piston without pressing the pedal must be completely open? How does the clutch work? Should the fork be back now? Can I unlock it with a lever by pulling forward? I don't know if it has been stopped for a long time. I can't figure out how to unlock it without disassembling everything.
I looked at your pictures closely the clutch is released when bolt on yoke opposite of the piston will be against case from what I can tell yours is against the case that should have the clutch released but it is not. There are a few things that can cause the yoke to be against the stop bolt with out releasing the clutch (1) retaining nut for throw out bearing has failed or bearing itself failed (2) ball on bottom of yoke has come off. I’ll try to explain how the clutch release works the piston in the slave cylinder will be out a little when the clutch is engaged this is how it is with out any input for steering when you push the pedal for a turn piston comes out pushes yoke out because the yoke is anchored to bottom of case it pivots outward pulling the clutch apart allowing the discs to slip and disconnect the final drive and the cross shaft
So theoretically the clutch as it is should be disconnected? Do you advise me to disassemble it at this point? I can't do anything else. I don't know how to thank you, thank you very much
Yes if the bolt is up against the case it should be disengaged try and push the yoke towards the slave cylinder and see how much movement is there
Video Hi. I made a video . If you can see it , you can see that the fork does not move at all. Should it move ? I don't understand how it should move. Eventually to disassemble everything , do I have to remove those 6 bolts in the flange? I don't even know how to get to the lower bolts. Is there anything I can do without disassembling? thanks .
Look at bottom of yoke clean out where it goes in case a picture would be helpful
I'll take some pictures later. What I'm wondering is if the fork needs to move in some way. I tried with a big steel lever, but nothing moves, everything seems nailed down.
I think there is a problem with the ball number 4 in parts page in your video I can hear the travel stop bolt hitting the case a small amount of movement on that end makes a lot of movement at end where slave cylinder has to move the yoke to disengage the clutch. Yoke should have very little movement
I can't figure out where ball #4 is located
It is on bottom of yoke it fits into a boss in the case look at post number 11 the first two pictures show the ball
ah ok. So it's below that's why I can't see anything. tonight with some light and mirrors I'll try to observe better. thanks I'll update you later
I checked, the movement in ball 4 is very small.
Small movement there is big movement on other end. I think you need to pull the clutch you need to remove 4 bolts holding brake anchor and the small circle of bolts towards middle of tractor and the bolts in brake drum towards the outside you will need to turn track to get the bolts out it can be done using a jack under bars on track.you will need a way to lift clutch it is heavy. Also note notches in top of case they are there so you can get clutch out
I didn't want to get to this point, but unfortunately I have to take it out. I've never seen a clutch like this in my life, that's why I was asking how it works. Checking everything, in the center of the fork nothing moves, there is only a play from the 4 ball, and on the opposite side where there is the push piston. In the center nothing moves at all. It seems blocked. for now thanks, I'll definitely update you.
good evening. I disconnected the 6 bolts and the 4 that are under the brake. It seems nailed, I can't move the clutch. Is there any other bolt? It doesn't lift a millimeter....
You have to remove bolts from brake drum also if you loosen the bolts under hydraulic tank on outside of frame (do not take them out) it will let tank lean out and give you a little more room
If it's like a 931B there is lip that the small inner flange fits in so it's easier to line up for bolting. Tilting it a bit when it's ready to come out will free it. You may also need to have a helper twist it a little when lifting to get enough clearance to pass the hyd. tank. That's what I had to do on my 931B. I put anti-seize on the bung covers that give access to the outer bolts and also all the mounting bolts. I hope I never have to take the clutches out again but don't want to have to fight them if for some reason they did have to come out again.
good evening. This is crazy. it doesn't move. I can't move it. Which side should I pry from? I'm going crazy...
I put a pin, do I have to detach it from the outside?
Stop! Do not drive the wedge in there you are against the pinion flange it will not come out there is a joint towards the clutch where it separates about 10 or 11 m/ms from where your wedge is it is probably rusted
You still have to remove ring of bolts where your wedge is you will have to turn track to get them out
damn do i have to remove all these bolts? i'm such a loser.♂️
Yes look on outside of frame by the track under hydraulic tank should be a plug to access bolts
It wasn't easy. I'll update you tomorrow. I have no idea what's wrong with it. thanks everyone
Look for flat spots on ball
should i open it? It looks fine, but if it didn't work something happened.
Image
Their is a lot to taking that clutch apart it would be better it someone on here could give you the stack height for the clutch also check bushing in case for wear
I looked at your pictures drum needs cleaned and teeth on discs are pretty bad one seems to be missing all the teeth takes some special tools to take clutch apart may want to check and see about getting it rebuilt
You need to use a hydraulic press and special tooling to take them apart and put back together. Not something that's a DIY project. When mine were out they didn't look too bad to me but the shop said the fiber disc's were pounded pretty good. They took the clutches apart and measured everything and they were worn pretty good. Brake bands aren't too expensive to have relined while they're out. A good clutch and brake shop could do them. There was an improved friction material they used on mine. Rebuilding the clutches is a little pricey though. Mine were about $3500cad. each and that was quite awhile ago. I will say that my steering is awesome and only needs light toe pressure to turn and brake. Once everything is back together adjustment is very important so you don't have the brake bands dragging on the drums. I've posted an easy way to adjust the brakes in the past that I learned from a Cat dealer shop foreman. He (Bob/Ont) was a member of the forum but sadly passed away a few years ago. He knew the smaller dozers and loaders better than anyone. He was good on bigger machines too. When putting it all back together don't use grease on the balls. It attracts dirt. Spray graphite was recommended.
Looks doable.
Hi the toothed pinion does not come out. I tried to heat it with the torch, put a temporary bolt and hammer it hard, it does not come out... am I doing something wrong? this job is a nightmare...
First put that big nut back on the shaft is tapered if you would happen to get it to come loose it would fly out with a lot of force the normal way to get that shaft out is with a h bar and a hydraulic cylinder
Yall need to talk this fellow into getting a book, next thing you know hes going to be tackling a recoil spring
You think I'm stupid? But can you touch a beautiful woman without making mistakes? Go jerk off... Idiot♂️.
Wow, people are trying to help you and that's the response to a very good comparison. Attempting to take steering clutches apart blindly is foolish (if not stupid) no matter who you are. The reason you need a hydraulic press is because there is a lot pressure holding the assembly together, not that different than a recoil spring. The question then becomes, how much force is needed for something to fly apart and seriously injure or kill you! Not good to dismiss legitimate concerns for your safety.
@sergioannis - Can I suggest that you familiarise yourself with the forum Rules & Posting Guidelines. Here is a LINK Please note the following - "Personal attacks of any kind on other members will not be tolerated. While disagreements in opinions and procedures may arise, they must be handled in a mature manner." The problem with working on this type of equipment is that a wrong move resulting from a lack of knowledge could seriously injure a person, or worse. FWIW I agree with the suggestion that you should consider getting hold of a service manual if you plan on keeping this machine for an extended period of time. Here is a LINK to new manuals, also a LINK to a used one on eBay.
Hopefully he heads the advice.
Hello everyone. I wanted to thank you for the precious advice you gave me, especially to pittsburgh cat man, who explained many things to me. I saw that the clutch discs are practically glued by rust. I will replace everything. Anything to check..? thanks a lot
The attached may help you. Please note that the steering clutch parts are slightly different depending on the machine Serial Number (if it is above or below 78U3913). I included both parts options.
Make sure you clean the ball on end of yoke and the bushing it goes into the bushing is very hard and usually doesn’t wear the ball is usually what wears it is replacible
Buonasera a tutti. Aggiornamento. Ho rimontato tutto e ora con i nuovi pezzi di ricambio e le giuste regolazioni lo sterzo funziona finalmente. Ma ora ho due problemi. La prima è che trovo una melma nel motore. Credo sia acqua entrata nella marmitta. Dal tappo del radiatore non ci sono segni di bolle ecc. Secondo problema e che girando la chiave non succede nulla, si accendono solo le candele ma non si avvia. Per accendere, devo fare ponte con il cacciavite sul motorino di avviamento e anche sul relè presente nello scooter stesso. Cosa controlli con Protrum? Ho smontato il blocchetto chiave ed è pulito, non presenta ruggine o altro. Allego qualche immagine. Mille grazie
Good evening everyone. Update. I reassembled everything and now with the new spare parts and the right adjustments the steering finally works. But now I have two problems. The first is that I find a slime in the engine. I think it is water that has entered the muffler. There are no signs of bubbles etc from the radiator cap. The second problem is that nothing happens when you turn the key, only the spark plugs light up but it doesn't start. To turn on, I have to bridge with the screwdriver on the starter motor and also on the relay present in the scooter itself. What do you control with Protrum? I disassembled the key block and it is clean, it has no rust or anything. I attach some images. Thank you very much
All I can say is the wiring in the pictures, all need some work. You can’t jump the starter from that post, all that will do is spin the starter, with the Bendix in, need to jump from the solenoid post. If the solenoid contacts are bad, the plunger will not push the Bendix out. Whatever was typed, looks Italian and it looks like a beautiful language. What is Protrum? At the moment I’m confused, it looks like Hatchequip is Italian and an imposter. lol
have you been drinking? hahahah
Hi thanks. It's hard to understand the wiring. I found the cat like this. It only lights the candles. It's a mess to turn it on, I don't understand the connections..
Best bet, would be to get a manual and probably either make or have made, some new cables and wire. Get rid of the wiring mouse nests and all the electrical tape and get some clean connections. Oh, and start a new thread, then I won’t feel like I’m drunk at 8 in the morning. Thanks.
HarleyHappy, You are absolutely right.....