I have some work to be done on my farm, 35 acres that I have owned and have lived on for more than 40 years. I need to clean out a 1 ½ acre lake that has accumulated about three to four foot of silt after 25 years. It does have a solid rock bottom under all of that silt. I also need to do some spillway work. I have roads to repair and culverts to install. I need to ditch the upper side of some of the roads. I also have some trees to take down for the saw mill and some stumps to remove from past logging on the property. I do have a Cat D4-E dozer with a MAPT 10 foot blade. I have convinced myself that, in addition to the dozer, I also need a track loader! Money is tight but I am considering buying a Cat 951-C. Serial # 86J2188. I met with the owner and went over the machine pretty good today. Paint and general condition is fair. I think the bucket is just a standard 1 ¼ yd. The bucket has been re bushed with new pins and all is tight and well. The rear sprockets, track link, track chains idlers, rollers, top and bottom, look good, and I would guess 75 % life left. The tracks are not SALT. The pins and bushings have not been turned and are nowhere near ready to be turned. The seals in one track adjuster have been replaced; both sides work and adjust ok according to the owner. All ten lower rollers turn by hand and have no play. The track shoes are shot. The owner bought a new complete set of triple grouser shoes that are 18’’. The machine cannot run the 18’’ shoes because they are too wide and will hit the frame on the inside. The track shoes were ordered by a dealer for a customer years prior and were never picked up. They were stacked outside for years and sold to the 951’s owner for ½ price with the understanding that they would need to be cut down. The bolt pattern is the same and otherwise they will fit. The owner tried the gas ax on the new shoes but decided to give up. He has a friend who has access to a huge sheer that will sheer off 2’’ on one side of all of the shoes. The friend wants $200.00 to sheer the shoes. Half of the shoes will be sheered on the right and the other half will be sheered on the left so as to accommodate both sides of the tractor. The new set of shoes will come with, and will be included in the price of the loader. I agreed to pay the $200.00 charge, above the price of the loader for the sheering, if I do decide to buy the machine. There are also extra new shoes in the deal. I know that I will need to purchase new bolts and nuts and I am aware of the time and trouble it will take to replace the shoes. I know that an offset shoe may seem a little odd but after the idea settles in, I think it will work out just fine. I will be working in dirt and mud, no rocks. Cleaning out the lake, I can use the most floatation that I can get. What are your thoughts, pro and con? After running the engine here was some antifreeze in the seam on the top tank. It may have come from the overflow because the rubber overflow tube was missing, or it could be a pin hole in the top tank, I could not tell. The antifreeze was clean and full. There were no visible bubbles in the radiator when the engine was running. Both lift cylinders will need to be rebuilt as they both drip. The chrome rods and outer cases look to be in good condition. I can re-build the cylinders myself. Parts are about $50.00 each. Just after shutting the engine down I unscrewed the filler cap on the hydraulic tank. I noticed that there was pressure in the tank and it spewed a small amount of air as I unscrewed the cap. Is that normal? The pressure build up was not caused by heat or the sun, it was a cloudy day and raining. I could not see through the sight glass to check the hydraulic fluid level. The engine oil level was at the add mark and dirty. I did see a very small amount of oil on the ground where the machine was parked for two weeks. No leaks from the final on the inside of the sprockets. Now for the big question and possible deal breaker. Before the engine was started and according to the owner it had been two weeks since it was last used, I felt of the manifold, head and filters to verify that the engine was dead cold. Outside temperature was about 75 degrees F. Glow plugs were used for about 30 sec. and the engine fired right up. The old engine sounded pretty good. Some white, to bluish smoke was seen. We let it run at a fast idle for about ten to fifteen minutes and operated the hydraulics which seems strong despite the leaking lift cylinders’. I had him shut the engine down, wait ten minutes and try to restart it. The starter engaged and spun up to normal revs but the engine refused to even try to start. Heat the glow plugs for 10 to 15 sec. and it will stubbornly fire up. We repeated the process of starting, shut down, wait, and restarting several times. Each time it needed glow plugs. With ought using the glow plugs on the already warm engine. I think the starter could have grinded away until the battery was dead and it would not have even tried to start. As it was cranking the white, to bluish white smoke spewed from the stack. What do you think? Is this, or could this be a major problem? As it had been raining all day and was very muddy, I did not try to operate the machine because it would have torn up the ground. I asked him to move the machine forward and backwards. It preformed ok. I have never operated a loader. He guarantees that the steering is ok and denies any other known problems. His asking price was $12,900. After haggling we agreed on $10,000. All operators, repair, and parts manuals that he has goes with the machine. The new shoes and extra new shoes are included with the understanding that I will pay the $200.00 for the sheering of the shoes. The owner seems to be an honest person and says that he bought the loader from his father. Says that his dad bought the loader when it was two years old. The son has owned it for more than twenty years now and used it to load top soil that they dug and sold from their farm. They just sold the farm and now need to get rid of the loader. According to the specs the loader weighs 28,000 lbs. It will need to be transported 117 miles from Kentucky to Tennessee. One hundred of those miles are interstate and the rest on state highways. A professional heavy hauler gave me a flat price of $500.00 to transport and unload the machine. I have raked and scraped to save for a loader that I might be able to afford. This seems to be my best chance to own one. I am prepared to spend what I have on the loader and the known needed repairs. I just have no money for big surprises, or to waste. I am too old to be playing in the dirt and working on old cats, but I love it. I would appreciate any and all ideas, comments and suggestions. I agreed to let the owner know, one way or the other, within five days from 9/29/2013. What are the weak and strong points experienced with a Cat 951-C Thanks
Nitelite, the injector pump on the C's is possibly the weak spot after a bit of water has its way instead of fuel, the hydraulic tanks are ment to hold a bit of "Puff" so no trouble on that score, offset pads work fine and is not uncommon to find fitted to shovels, the starting issue I would think might need some tinkering with before a solid comment is worthy, this would include the usual crap jobs like going through the fuel system, setting the valve lash, this is better done with the air box unbolted from the Cylinder head with the hole then blanked off, this also gives you a good chance to inspect the air filters, the heater plugs draw 5 amps per plug so on heat the amp gauge should show 20 amp drop, it might be worth crawling under the beast and checking the hardbar bolts that fix to the inner side of the track frame, the hoist cylinder are easy to do if you can undo the rod nut, I use an 1"1/2 drive socket in my flogging spanner and hit it with a 28 lb hammer it never lets me down, I love the older style CAT loaders (front engine) I am getting near the end of restoring a 951B but I do this work daily and enjoy it, I hope things work out well for you with this Chariot, in the U.K. good tidy track shovels are a scarce item with plenty of wrecks about that have lived a life in Hell, so a tidy shovel is worth a try. tctractors
I made the decision to buy it, It was delivered to me on for better or worse, here she is!
Trying to post the pictures The machine deal included a new set of shoes. I have bought the new hardware. 312 new Cat bolts and nuts. She will look good in the new shoes.
This is my D4E I can't believe the build up on the track shoes. It is like concrete and running the machine over gravel roads will not remove it. I spent most of the day removing the clay from the track shoes of the D4 and the 951C. That is Tennessee red clay. I had to use the pictured ling handled scraper for leverage and then a hammer and chisel around the bolt heads.
Nice looking CAT thanks for the pictures - Good luck Ex tractor fan
New shoes Preview If I am able to post them, the pictures show the new track shoes that came with the machine. The shoes are rusted from being stored outside. I am thinking that I should have them sand blasted and then paint them before installing them. At the least I think that I should use a side grinder on the surface that contacts the link when bolted up. Am I doing extra work for nothing if I sand blast them and paint them. I think the clay might not stick to them so bad if they are smoother. I will be using all new hardware on the instillation. The pads have been sheered off 2" on one side so as to work on the 951C. They were 18" shoes and now they are 16" offset shoes.
Maybe you shoud have someone measure your tracks before you waste a set of bolts and a lot of sweat .Your tracks look to be well past a bushing turn. Bob
Looks like you may need sprockets very soon too
Need to measure for pin/bushing wear, measure across four pins then divide by 4 to get the best average. Your 951C should have 6.906 pitch rails, at 7.0 inch average dimension they are just at 50% more than that they either need a busing/pin turn or rails. Judging from the space opening between flat shoes they are most likely past the 50% mark, and the sprockets look bad.
Second the comment about sprockets. You have Thompson Machinery the Cat dealer close by in Nashville. Go in there with your machine Serial Number and ask to speak to one of their PSSRs (Part & Service Sales Rep). Tell him you've just bought the machine and are thinking of investing money in it to get it up to snuff (all true). Play dumb and tell him you have no idea what's the best way to go about upgrading/overhauling the undercarriage as you're sure it needs work. He will probably be seeing dollar signs in front of his eyes by that time and offer you a FREE Custom Track Service (CTS) measurement of the entire undercarriage system. Bite his arm off up to the ankle, make sure your new track shoes and hardware are well hidden away, and have him come over and measure your undercarriage for you. When he presents you with the report and his recommendations about what needs done and the required parts to do it thank him kindly and tell him you'll be in touch. Post the results here.
Nitelite, firstly I am a big fan of tractor shovels and have cut up a good amount to break for spares, this Sin has made me re-build an old Knacker into a tidy mount to ease this fact, anyhow your shovel is missing the return to dig rod and mounting on the right bucket cylinder, this is a handy gizmo it is fitted to the rod and pokes through the hole mounted on the cylinder at the pre-set position kicking the bucket control lever out of detent position, its worth sorting as it makes you look a smooth operator with fast control of all the toys, the missing track guards (4) and pipe access plate would add some to its fine looks, the front radiator plates look to be off a 951B or "very" ealy C as the C series had an un-pierced margin about 4", this was positioned at the top on the top section and at the bottom on the lower section of the 2 plates (identical) that cover the front, the tracks are a bit on the worn side but should manage to still cope with a good bit of work so when they wear right out and are Scrap its time to do a bit of "thinking on it" sometimes I "think" other times I "sit and think"? now on to your cropped off plates, the drama running off-sets is the width of the track V the width of the bucket so get your tape measure out and also find a bit of paper and a pencil and again do a bit of "thinking on it", in the U.K. most kit is run till its Screaming with costly CAT parts being run till they are past scrap, your new mount looks a good piece well worth tinkering with, I hope it works well for you and thank you for your post. tctractors
I am in the process of replacing track pads on my 951C. They were 18" pads and I had to cut 2" off one side. Now they are 16" offset pads. I am using all new Cat hardware going back. There are thirty nine shoes to each side. The shoes were new but have been stored outside for years and are a bit rusted. I use an angle grinder to knock some of the rough surface off where the pad meets the rail and bolt head seats against the pad. I also use a sanding disk to clean up the top of the rail where the new pad makes contact. At this point I have replaced 17 of the 78 pads. That requires 312 new bolts and 312 new nuts. Half of the bolts will break loose using a 1" with a reducer, or a 1/2" drive 15/16 impact socket with a 6 foot cheater pipe, then finish the run off with a 3/4 impact wrench. The other half of the bolts will not budge using the cheater pipe. They require cutting the bolt heads off with the hot wrench and driving them through the rail with a punch. I soak the new bolts and nuts in 30 wt oil as recommended by Cat. I insert and start the bolts on to the nuts, then tighten with a 3/4 impact wrench to 150 lbs. Then I add another 1/2 turn using the 6 foot cheater pipe. I use a 3/4 cold chisel to wedge between the nut and the rail to stop the nut from turning on the bottom. Two to five pads per day is about my limit. I will post pictures when I get a chance. I am using 1/2" drive Harbor Freight deep 15/16 sockets. After about 20 bolts the inside of the socket rounds out and can no longer grip the bolt. I then place the socket in a vice and use an angle grinder to remove about 3/8 of the worn end. The socket gets shorter but it is good for another 20 bolts. Today I bought 6 more sockets at Harbor Freight. I have tried Snap On and Mack but they don't work any better or last any longer. It surprises me that, considering the abuse, I have not broken a socket or a pull handle yet. My pull handles are Snap On. One inch drive sockets are too thick to fit between the bolt head and the grouser bar. The thinner 1/2" drive socket works just fine. My track bolts are 5/8 x 2" and a 24 MM socket actually is a tighter fit but buying individual sockets in 24 MM are harder to find. Harbor Freight guarantees their hand tools for life but I only pay $2.99 each and with the regrinding I can get three lives out of each one. Travel gasoline to replace them makes it more economical to grind them. When I finish that job I have to rebuild the lift and tilt cylinders, replace all of the gages, change all fluids and filters and replace one carrier roller. By then it should be spring and maybe I'll get to actually ride on it.
Not sure who you are dealing with for tools there nitelite, I have 1/2" and 3/4" sockets from Mac and SnapOn that are thirty years old and going strong. I have removed track shoes with a 3/4" impact and impact sockets for years and never once have I had to grind away the head of the socket to get the bolts all out on a rail or set of rails. Something is very wrong I feel with what you are doing or how you are doing. Are you using chrome or impact sockets, 12 or 6 point?
A couple of comments. 1. A good quality socket shouldn't round off like that. Are you using a black impact socket or a chrome one..? If you're using a chrome one be aware they are NOT designed for use with an impact wrench. 2. It may be that because the existing bolt heads are worn down with use that you will need an undersize socket (slightly less than 15/16") to correctly grip the head. If you could get hold of a 23mm metric socket, try that - however it's not a common size and may be sifficult to get hold of, but it's slightly less in size than 15/16". You will still need the 15/16" to tighten the new bolts. A loose socket will take up a large part of the energy from the impact wrench and the resulting "rattle" will cause it to wear rapidly, as you've discovered. 3. Put copper or graphite anti-seize compound on the thread of the new bolt and more importantly under the head where it conbtacts the track shoe. That will significantly reduce friction and enable you to tighten the bolts more quickly and with less resistance to the impact wrench & less load on the socket.
I Am using the black impact socket. I think that one big problem is not enough air volume to the 3/4 impact gun. The 3/4 air wrench is new and I have not been able to test its capabilities when given adequate air supply. I have a two stage compressor on a 80 gallon tank that kicks 120 psi with ease. I have been running a 3/8 x 50 ft. air hose at the cost a lot of available CFM to the wrench. I cannot get the machine any closer to my compressor. Tomorrow I am going to run a 1/2" hard line across 30 ft. of the distance across the shop. I will then feed the air into a ten gallon secondary air tank closer to the work. Then I can use a 1/2" x 20" rubber air line to supply the 3/4 impact wrench. I hope the new set up will increase the CFM available to the impact wrench and will make a difference in its power. I was a mechanic for 30 years and I too have Mac, SnapOn and SK Wane tools that I have owned since the early 1970s. I don't mind grinding on a 2.99 socket but I do mind grinding on the more expensive tools. I do feel like just a little more pressure on the bolt would break a socket or the pull handle. At that point I burn the head off the bolt. True, some of the bolt heads are worn and that causes the rounding of the socket and/or the bolt head. Again, at this time, the hot wrench is the answer in the case of the most stubborn bolts. It is a long time until spring.
DMiller, Thanks for the reply, it sounds encouraging. I can't imagine being able to remove and replace all of those pads just using a 3/4 impact wrench. What kind of 3/4 impact wrench do you use and how is your air supply set up? What size air hose do you use and how far from the compressor are you working?
Sounds like you're already half-way to solving your problem by increasing the volume of air supply. Don't forget the anti-seize on threads & under the bolt head when tightening. It makes it much easier to get the bolts tight.
I went back and read thru the post, if you bought new bolts I would waste less time trying t break free the old ones, they are worn and a issue costing more cash, gas axe them(torch) and drive the remnant out of the shoe/chain, bucket the pieces up and take to scrap anyway. Could have all the bolt heads on the exposed section cut away and removed in minutes rather than days with new shoes on and done in time to try it out before snow comes.
Off with the old and on with the new I spent some time upgrading my air supply system in my shop that was set up to do wood working, nail guns and paint guns mostly. I have never before needed a large volume of air, only psi was considered. I only used 3/8 hose with I/4 ends. DMiller got me to thinking. If he could change track pads with an impact wrench then I should be able to do the same. I tried my Harbor Freight 3/4 impact wrench and it had nowhere near enough power to loosen the track bolts, therefore I started using a breaker bar and a 6 foot cheater pipe. I have a two stage industrial compressor on an eighty gallon tank and it is quite capable. I just needed to get the cfm up at the wrench and maintain the psi over a long distance as I can't get my track loader closer to the compressor. Over the weekend I replaced all of my supply lines in the shop with 1/2 id schedule 40 pcv pipe and rebuilt the air trees to handle large volume air. It is 40 feet from the compressor to the air tree connection mounted on the wall as pictured. From the Air tree I am using a true 3/8" id x 12' hose connecting to an auxiliary air tank. From the auxiliary tank I am using another true 3/8" x 12' air hose to the 3/4 drive impact wrench, Harbor Freight #66884. I am using a Harbor Freight 3/4 drive x 25/16 deep black impact socket. Wow! What a difference. I am amazed at the power of the air wrench now. Thinking about it, My sockets were stripping out on the inside because of the sideways pull created by using the 6, cheater pipe. No socket problems at all now. The air wrench is more than up to the job with proper air supply and I only check the torque with a torque wrench randomly to make sure that the bolts are tight. Thanks to all who have responded here, life does get easier! I replaced thirteen pads this afternoon with a lot less work. I only had to burn one bolt out and that was because the head was worn down so bad that I could not get a socket to work.
Don't know if you are subject to these regs or not but for your own safety it might be worth thinking about. Regards d.d. https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html
Silly question, perhaps, but are the track plates now wider than the bucket?
To answer donkey doctor, as you can see in the picture of the air tree, any exposed piping is 1/2 galvanized metal pipe. The pvc pipe runs overhead and is cradled inside of C channel for the entire run across the shop. All of the drops are galvanized metal fastened to the walls. osha rules would not apply as this is my private shop for my own use. Thanks for the input, I have never seen the regulation before. I guess that they could cite me for general stupidity and probably would if they watched my work methods for a little while. Who in this forum could pass their scrutiny? "To answer ih100. As luck would have it, the new track pads now measure 77" outside to outside of the track chains. The bucket measures 78" wide. The cost to sheer both sides of the pad would have been double the price in labor cost. I can use the extra floatation as, come spring, I will drain and clean out my 1 1/2 acre lake. It will be pure mud, but it does have a solid rock bottom underneath all of that muck. I do have a Cat D4E with a winch for plan B if needed. You also have to consider, those new pads came with the loader when I purchased it and they were delivered to me. That set of pads cost about half of what I paid for the machine. Cat priced the new bolts and nuts at more than $900.00. I paid $237.00 for 312 bolts and the nuts and they are genuine caterpillar parts. As you can tell in the pictures the old pads are worn and they are all breaking on the leading edges. True,the track chain shows some wear. It measures out at 7" 1/16. The rails are decent and the sprockets show considerable wear, All bottom rollers are good to go and I am replacing 1 carrier roller. Front Idlers are good shape. It is a farm machine and it does not have to earn its keep any more. It is basically retired and so am I. You could go hog wild if you were rich and turn the pins and bushings and at the same time replace the sprockets. I chose to keep her going and run till destruction. You never know what will give trouble next but I would hate to know that I had to sit in that seat and operate it until it destructed before I could quit. I think that those old cats are grand old machines and I feel honored to own them. I am just as content to work on them as I am to operate them. If they didn't need a lot of work done on them I couldn't afford to own them. They are both 1978 models and I had to wait 35 years for someone to wear them out so I could afford them. The bright side of the picture is when I get all of those parts replaced imagine how much scrap metal I will have to sell and recover some of the cost. As someone who has worked hard all of my life, I do feel for the guys who post on this forum with major breakdowns and problems, as their machines do still have to earn their keep and turn a profit. From those noble and knowledgeable people is where I learn to tinker on my own junk.
Awsome, I was just looking at the pictures above of the right and left tracks that I posted. I haven't noticed it before, but it looks like one of the chains at some time has been installed backwards. I guess that that cat won't know weather it is coming or going. If you agree that one is backwards, is it worth busting the chain to change?
I just had to go look at the machine. The track chains are on right. I took one picture from the front and the other from the rear. I could not have turned a chain if one would have been backwards, because of the offset pads. False alarm!
Nitelite, I love your Vigor and effort to keep chipping away at the task, in the U.K. that Shovel would be a gem to own, so well done that man. tctractors
Glad you got to the bottom of the problem in the end - a success story is always good to hear. It's not nice to see someone struggling especially when with a bit of planning it's not necessary.
The track pad change is finished. Today I started the job of repacking the lift cylinders. I have the bucket supported on some heavy duty jack stands. I am also using the blade of the D4E as back up support for the bucket while I am working on the lift cylinders. As a third safety measure I am using a chain from one lift arm, across the top of the hood, to the other lift arm. You may can see in the picture that I am using the the blade of the D4E to support the 951C bucket. In the first picture I am trying to pull the rod from the right cylinder with no luck yet. The second picture is the left hand rod, pinned into the 951's draw bar for holding, so I can un screw the large nut from the rod. The third picture shows the cheater pipe, ready to take care of business. Picture #4 shows the nut almost off. At that point it started raining and finishing my day. I have not managed to pull the rod from the right hand cylinder yet. I applied all of the capable pressure from the come along. I am trying not to remove the empty cylinder. At this point I am planning to repack and install the left cylinder back on the machine and top off the hydraulic fluid. Then I think that I can start the engine and force the rod from the tube using the machine's own hydraulics. I plan on wrapping the rod with cardboard real good so as to protect it from damage when it does come out. With what I have available to work with, this seems to be the best method. Am I on the right track or is there an easier way? Next I will rebuild the tilt cylinders and then change the hydraulic fluid and filter. I am beginning to see a small amount of antifreeze standing on the engine head. I will find the source when I get the chance. at this point I suspect a head gasket change may be in order. Oh well, it looks like I will be busy all winter with this new ride. I am sure that I will need lots of information available on this forum before I get a dependable machine out of this poor neglected cat.
If you have a Porto-Power, you can adapt it's pump to the bottom port on the cylinder. It cuts down on the chance of losing an hour looking for the rod in the neighbor's pasture. If the coolant is standing on top of the head, that doesn't sound like a head gasket to me, more like an external leak. Good luck, Mitch
Nitelite it might be worth a verb on the fact that the piston is back to front on the rod, the fibre ring needs to be at the nut end else damage will result, the coolant on the head is from the chamber seals most probably. tctractors.
Good spot Tony. Here's what the assembly should look like.
Good eyes on this machine. It's very nice and sharp!
Keeping me straight! Thanks tctractors and Nige! If not for your reply I would have put that piston in backwards. That was how it was when I removed the rod from the cylinder. I took pictures and put everything back exactly as it came apart. I did have the schematic but failed to pay attention to it and concentrated on putting things back in the same location and direction as they were removed. The cylinder had been rebuilt before as there were markings on the nut left by a pipe wrench. The seals were really rotten and came out in little chunks. I have not really tried to find the source of the antifreeze coolant leak yet. I will have to get these cylinders finished so I can clean the coolant from the head, start the engine, and then trace the source. I am posting a picture where I just stuck the camera up there and snapped a picture in behind the manifold where I really can't see. It would be good not to need to pull the head. tctractors what exactly are you referring to when you say a "chamber leak"? Are you talking about a seal or gasket of some sort? I was an automobile mechanic for years and I know that some head bolts go through to the water jacket inside the engine block. I have seen those particular bolts leak coolant around their bolt heads when the head gasket was blown adjoining.
Nitelite, follow the injector pipe to the injector, the body the injector fits into is the Pre-combustion Chamber that is sealed at the top with a thick O ring, the usual reason for this style of leak is high C/Head temps caused by blocked oil cooler/s restricting water flow from the W/Pump into the cylinder block, get your rods sorted and start thinking about whipping off the Bonnet.
I understand what you are saying tctractors, That will be my very next project after I finish rebuilding the hydraulic cylinders and changing the fluid and filter. I will keep you in the loop. Thanks!
Nitelite, after you get your hydraulic plumbing done drop off the front bucket as its easier and safer to work on the motor, remove the top cowl (bit in front of dash) and bonnet then raise the loader frame up to top hight and brace with angle iron or CAT support bolted bellow fuel tank, then you can perform on the motor like a pro, it might be worth making a good job of the support by welding a horse shoe base to some stout angle to seat on the ram gland, I think around 32" total lenght is needed?? you did say that the engine was a bit of a nail so now is a good time to sort the beast.
Would like to see a photo(s) of the D4E and 951 side by side. Very nice combo indeed. Good luck with them, hope you have hundreds of hours of enjoyment with each. Cheers LB
Pictures of the pair of cats As per request, here are the cats together. I have just finished repacking the lift cylinders on the loader.
Boy, I wish my D4e looked like that, well, actually it looks almost exactly like that, except for the paint. Yours has some.
What a sweet looking set of toys you have there. I would love those 2 exact machines. I would want the same blade on the D4. Does it have a tilt cylinder or is the tilt manual. Again nice set up. Cheers LB
Nice
Yes it has a tilt cylinder, actually it is a mapt blade set up. The dozer is a fine machine on a 100% undercarriage, salt. The track loader is a work in progress machine and I hope to have it top notch by spring. The previous owner neglected it and it needs some TLC.
Does anyone know the correct filter number for the transmission on a Cat 951C. 86J2188. I also need the filter number for the steering clutch housing. I removed the clutch filter and it was a 1R0719. I am not sure that that is the right filter. I called the local cat dealer but he seemed unsure. Does the clutch housing filter, under the seat, and the transmission filter call for the same filter number? What problems am I likely to run into when replacing the o ring that seals the pre combustion chamber to the cylinder head? I have the seals ordered. I am considering doing a valve job and maybe an in frame rebuild over the winter, but, I would like to resolve the coolant leak before a major tear down. I am hoping that an o ring is the extent of the coolant leak and not a cracked head or worse.
For the transmission the filter is listed as 9M-9740, cancelled and replaced by 1R-0719. If you want to run something for a few hours (say 50-100) to really clean up the oil and pull all the particles out of it that may be floating around, install a 132-8875 High-Efficiency filter. There are 3 different levels of filter efficiency for that size, 1R-0719 is the lowest, 1R-0773 is in the middle, & 132-8875 is the highest. I'd run 1R-0773 as "standard" once the system was clean. For the steering clutch lubrication system the filter is listed as a 5S-0484, CRB 1R-0659.
Thanks Nige, sounds like sound advice to me, and thanks for the filter numbers.
Fuel leak fix In the first picture you can see the coolant leak on the top of the cylinder head. It looks to be coming from the #2 pre combustion chamber. I hope it is just the o ring and that I can change the chamber o rings without pulling the exhaust manifold. If I do have to pull the manifold I expect that there will be some studs that will break off.:Banghead:Banghead Can someone tell me what the pictured part below the fuel filter is. The maintenance meter is bolted to it and then the complete assembly bolts the engine block just below the fuel filter. It is leaking diesel fuel down on to the alternator. As you can see the previous owner cut a side out of a plastic jug to protect it from the constant drip. That is a brand new alternator, the old one was ruined by the fuel leak. As pictured, I think that I have the correct new seals, a new fuel filter, and a new meter. What, if any, trouble am I going to get into when I tear into the seal job on the unidentified part. It looks like two metal blocks bolted together that must be separated after removal from the engine block. It also looks like the meter has been patched with the clamp and metal bar over the window. My manual does not show a break down or a whole lot about what to expect when I disassemble the part. I expect to find a geared shaft and I hope no springs or steel balls to come flying out at me. The four large o rings are to replace the seals on the pre combustion chambers to stop the coolant leak. I am just waiting on better weather. .
Old equiptment and an old man. I am catching up on what I have done since rebuilding the lift and tilt cylinders. Also had to replace one carrier roller. After removing two retaining bolts that hold the roller I applied a little heat to the bracket. Also used a little force behind the roller with a hydraulic wedge and port a power. To install the new roller I used the port a power to push between the blade of my D4E and the face of the new roller .:notworthy As you can see in the picture, the old roller locked up and it looks like it was ran that way for some time by the previous owner. This old gal had lots of problems and suffered from neglect and abuse. despite the lack of attention, we are working things out, one issue at a time. I have a need to haul silt from my lake that I will drain and clean out with the loader and dozer in the spring. I think this old 1971 Ford F600 dump truck should fill that need if I respect its age. I found the old farm grain truck for sale a few weeks back. The speedometer cable is broken and the previous owner, who bought the truck new, estimates about 35,000 miles on the truck. I bought it and drove it home on the interstate. It runs good, drives good and we kept up with the traffic at about 65 mph for the 75 mile drive. GVW on the door plate is stated at 32,000 lbs. Ford V8 330 cid 4 speed w/ 2 speed rear axel and fair tires at the affordable price of $1500.00. I will be hauling the spoil from the cleanout site about 800 yards to the dump site. I am looking forward to getting started in the spring. I have much more work to do on the machines before I start to work them. The 1978 model D4E, the 1978 model 951C, the 1971 model Ford 600 and the 1949 model me make up the team. What I have not mentioned so far, is that on September 14, 2013, just a few weeks back, I shut down the D4 and climbed down. I walked in front of the machine and died at 1:42 pm central time. Forty one seconds later my implanted defibrulator fired and brought me back. I don't know how long I actually laid in front of the blade before I regained consciousness but I woke up flat of my back, staring at the sky. I laid there another ten minutes enjoying the most peaceful feeling that I have ever had in my life. I got up, got back on the dozer and worked until dark not really comprehending what had taken place. Later that evening over dinner I did mention the strange incident to my wife. Early the next morning the Veterans hospital called and told me the precise time it was when I actually flat lined. My implanted unit had contacted San Francisco and reported the incident. San Francisco, in turn, contacted the VA hospital in Nashville TN. and they called me and explained what had taken place. I could not explain just exactly what it was that had taken place and I did not realize that I had been unconscious and I also did not know that I had received the shock from the defribulator. I do ,however, now realize how lucky I am. Had I not survived I would have missed the birth of my first grandson by less than twelve hours! I have not altered my plans. Since that day in September I bought the Cat loader and the dump truck and have since done a lot of work on the equipment. I can't say which one of us will break down next. We are all old iron, and as far as playing in the dirt and working on the old iron goes, I am living a dream.
Wow, glad to hear that you are still among us! That's some scarry stuff! You'll absolutely love the F600, my dad bought a 1975 model back in the mid 90s, it had been rode hard and put away wet but it still runs great. I don't know how many thousands of loads of gravel, wood, rocks, boulders, etc. I've hauled with it since then. It has the inline 6 engine and a 5 speed with a 2 speed rear end. The biggest issue with this thing is the brakes. When we bought it they were great but one day while I had a large load of boulders on going down a relatively steep hill I heard a pop and the brake pedal went to the floor... She picked up speed in no time and I went hurtling down the hill, thankfully I was almost at the bottom when it happened and I coasted to a stop in the clearing at the bottom. We fixed the broken line and went back to work. About a year or so later I was building a retaining wall on a steep driveway. I loaded up the box with large boulders then walked the excavator to the driveway. Not completely trusting the brakes on the truck I dug a bit of a cross ditch and made a mound of dirt to help stop the truck, then put the hoe bucket down behind it as a last resort stop... I started backing down the hill and right at the top again the pop and pedal drop! What happened next only took a few seconds but it felt like for ever! The truck took off like a banshee and pulling the emergency brake didn't do anything except make a cloud of smoke. I thought I'd run the left side into the retaining wall that was already complete hoping the friction would slow or stop me. Not so! The left side of the truck just jumped up on top of the wall and I was now zorching backwards with what seemed like about a 40 degree list to the right! I felt a bump as I went through the cross ditch and mound that I made, of course it didn't stop anything. By now I was wondering why the excavator bucket wasn't stopping me when a loud bang, lurch and crunch took place, stuff went flying all over the truck cab (me included) and everything finally stopped! The excavator bucket and stick were right beside the passenger side window. I had smashed right into the cab of the excavator! Thankfully it had some very stout guarding and aside from a few minor scratches there was no damage done! I climbed out of the truck, cleaned out my shorts and went back to work, I had to unload all the boulders with the excavator, one at a time and do it carefully so the truck wouldn't roll over since it was still half up on the retaining wall. I then gently pushed the truck back up the hill and put it away. So the point of this long rant I guess is to make sure the brakes are good on that truck. They are tough as nails and they just don't quit. I still use ours whenever I need it and it always starts, runs and keeps coming back for more... Good luck with it, you'll love it! Sorry about the long post...
Awesome that you mentioned the brakes spitzair. My list of need to dos for the truck is that it has two leaking wheel cylinders. I will rebuild all four and check all of the brake lines for dry rot. At the moment the brakes feel good as far as stopping the empty truck. I just don't think that I could stand a wild ride like you described. Later models have separate front and rear brake systems. Could be that I could change it over to the later system, I think that would be easier than building myself a retaining wall, just in case. lol
No, it's probably not. Like he said, the worst thing about those old girls is the brakes. On the other subject, Wow! that is scary. It's amazing that you went into v-fib and got up and went back to work. People can say what they want, but I am thankful for the advances in medical science. Twenty something years ago now, I made a fine powder out of both bones in my right forearm. A surgeon gathered up all those little, (1/4" and smaller) pieces and put them back together. I was out of work for a year and had some loss of function for about 3 yrs, but now it works great, just looks a little wrong. He told me less than 10 yrs before that, nobody would have tried that, they just would have amputated it just below the elbow. Thinking about that still makes me a little queasy. Keep going as long as you can and you'll probably last longer, unless a hydraulic braked truck gets you. Mitch
be careful with a small dump truck like that. it is easy to overload it while moving wet materials, or to sink it and damage driveline components. we started out in 2002 with small trucks like that building our motocross track. learned a lot about offroad trucking and drivers during that time. I would recommend stainless steel braided brakes lines if the original ones become an issue. some hose shops can build some new ones for you. I commend you for getting out and turning wrenches on your machines. don't care if they are old or not, they still get the job done and bring us some enjoyment. we purchased a 1988 deere 455g last year for 14,500.00 it has 5,400 original hours. previous owner had just gotten the loader back from the repair shop. it received a complete transmission/steering clutch overhaul. also had new turbo, water pump, and alternator in the last 8 years. looks very good in appearance, not beat up or thrashed. doesn't smoke any when started cold, and runs out well, never overheats. paint is faded but overall needs very little. needs sprockets and pins/bushings turned. heck the lights and gauges all work perfectly. my point is that I felt like I couldn't afford to pass the crawler loader up. I had already purchased a dump truck and skid steer with 8 attachments from the same owner, and all of the equipment was cherry. most folks in the area wouldn't even consider the 455g simply because it wasn't a dozer. which didn't make much sense to me. since we have owned it, we have used it to clean out a pond, push timber alongside my D4c, load trucks when my w20c wasn't around, and lots of other small tasks around our farm. quite simply, a crawler loader is an excellent machine for a small operation. some will say that the tracks are too expensive to maintain, but I would like to argue that a crawler loader will be no more expensive to maintain than some of the current production 90+hp CTL's. definitely would like to see a case study on that topic. hope you are doing ok healthwise. I currently work with another contractor that is 60 years old, and I am 35. he keeps me very busy and is sharp as a tack. I am holed up in the house with cabin fever due to snow and ice. have a brand new $1400 barn door tailgate kit sitting in the shop and it is too cold to get started cutting on the dump truck. best of luck with the 951, I hope this thread runs as long as boone's did! that will be neat!
Scary stuff indeed. You take care, eh. A lot of us here are enjoying your postings of the trials and tribulations of your 951 and maybe doing a bit to try to help you along the way. Remember that it's the machines that are supposed to break, not you ...........
This morning the temperature has come up to 30 f. If it manages to rise to 40 I would like to go out and drop the belly pan on the 951. I need to change the transmission fluid and filter. I also need to change the pick up for the torque converter temp gage. I replaced all of the gages as none of them worked when I got the machine. The belly pan has been welded on so it looks like there will be some grinding to do. I am sure when I get in there I will find something else that will need attention. If nothing else, a good degreasing and cleaning. In any case, I will leave the pan off until I get the coolant leak at the pre combustion chambers repaired. That leak could end up with the cylinder head needing to be removed. If the head does need to come off I would go ahead with an in frame overhaul at the same time. After spitzair posted his experience and wild ride, the brakes on the old dump truck seem a lot more urgent. I also got a package in the mail yesterday from the previous owner of the truck. He had gathered up all of the parts, new and used, that he had found that were associated with the vehicle and mailed them to me in case I might need them. In the box was a set of wheel cylinder cups, one new wheel cylinder, and a used master cylinder plunger. From all indications the brake situation will become my top priority before I load the first load of muck on the truck. I will also make sure that the parking brake is in good working order. Wheel cylinder cups and rubber brake hoses are relatively cheap and the stainless steel braided hoses that Lindsey 97 mentioned couldn't cost that much more. I expect that the truck will be up on jack stands with all four wheels and brake drums off the first chance that I get. I will be sure and take pictures along the way. I just might consider putting in a runaway truck ramp along the haul route before I get started cleaning out the lake. I think that I might be getting paranoid! More later.
Not to burst your bubble, I have worked on this series of truck since they were new, actually well before then. Get the wheels off, if the lining is more than 1/2 gone, replace and buy drums same time, cheap investment especially if going to be relying on them. Wheel cylinders, throw the old ones away, if you want go ahead and hone one or two, if there is pitting of any volume inside the bore or if the anodized coating on the pistons is corroded and flaking, throw them away!! Again, cheap at half the cost if you wreck the truck or they constantly leak. When you bleed them after the work, bleed at the master first, then the Hyvac, then the closest stepping out to each until to the furthest wheel from the booster, that will flush it pretty clear. The caution on the lining and drums is as this, shoes less than 50% will only last a short time and you will be back into the wheels, new lining /old drums, don't mate up surface to surface for a long time limiting stopping power, glazed drums are the pits for not holding. Old drums turned, look at the inside of turned old drums, you will see hard spots and high domes all over, that is where the steel has work hardened and does not bode well for new linings. New drums/new linings, take it out after you know the adjustment is good and no leaks with a full pedal, take it onto a high speed low travel road and get it up to speed, do a few panic stops up to the point of locking tires, get the brakes seated and hot, let it cools then re-adjust, will hold that adjustment a long, long, long time. PS, fix the parking brake, they are not that expensive, the block under the tire looks cheesy and works about as well.
See, Millers do put worthwhile posts on here. Seriously, DMiller is exactly right.
I worked on trucks just as this one for over twenty years, that among the other minor, major and in between sized PITA's. in those years I did learn what did, what does and what does not work out well. We tried everything for years trying to salvage wheel cylinders or brake drums, most were a waste of time and customer money only to make the customer unsatisfied. Guess I am about the worst for going ahead and spending money but I like working my equipment, not working on it so much anymore.
Got it done! Ok, by now you should realize that I am not too swift when it comes to diesel engines. The unidentified part, turns out, was the transfer pump. My manual is silent on the pump but I did find the breakdown in the parts manual. Not a bad job and the three seals required were a total of $1.14 and I also used a few o rings out of my assortment. There was no trouble overhauling the pump but I did learn that the engine has to be rotated as the pump is being removed because of the spiral gearing on the end of the pump. I have not primed the fuel system and checked for leaks yet because I am going to change the fuel filter in the morning. It just got too cold and too dark to continue.
Thanks for the reply DMiller and you didn't burst my bubble. Like I said before, I am living a dream. For twenty years I was a mechanic and worked for Exxon. Before that I worked in a truck shop. I know all about hot spots in brake drums and such. You can rest assured that I will make sure that the brakes are inspected and repaired so as to be safe for the remaining useful life of the truck. However, I can't justify spending that kind of money on brakes for a vehicle that will never be used on the road again. I will use it here on the farm and I suspect that third and fourth gears will get little use from now on. I expect to hone and rebuild the wheel cylinders if they are re buildable. I think that I will need to clean up the drums and have the old brake shoes relined. I also intend to replace all rubber hoses. The master cylinder has been rebuilt and seems to be solid, the hyvac works ok too. I will also inspect and replace steel tubing as needed. The load will be up a slight grade and the down hill return will be running empty. The runaway truck cut off still sounds like a good idea. You can also bet that my parking brake will be in good working order. I don't mind working on old equipment. Considering the price of diesel fuel, I don't know that working on the machines cost any more than working with them. I can't wait until spring! When I get a chance I will post pictures of the lake that is to be drained and cleaned out and the route to the spoil dump site. If there is no longer a leak at the transfer pump I can remove that blue plastic jug that has been sheading the alternator. Now that is progress. When I know that the parking brake is adjusted properly and I am convinced that it works as it should, I can also get rid of that chock block at the rear wheels of the dump truck. Until then, it is cost effective and beats no chock at all. LOL : usa
Ive had trouble using Wix/Carquest/Napa fuel filters before on these models, I prefer Cat fuel filters. Usually not more expensive either...and I use those non OEM filters on everything else. I dont know what the problem is with them.
Simple. They're (allegedly) cheap for a reason.
I missed how the subject came up, I guess, but I have had trouble with Wix on Cat and Komatsu; they seem to work well with everything else.
i just happened to notice his aftermarket filter in the pics Mitch...and thought about trouble I'd had in the past. Nitelite, those o-rings in the transfer pump might need to be a better design than the cheap Chinese ones from the local auto parts store. Not trying to panic, just need to scrutinize them if not comparable to OEM specs.
Cat fuel filter The new fuel filter going back on the machine, as you see it laying on my work bench is Cat. If you will remember at the start of this thread, I mentioned that the As you can see it laying on my work bench in the pictures, the new fuel filter is Cat. Its too cold outside today to work on the machine. It is supposed to be 40 degrees tomorrow. I think that I'll wait to change the filter, get it primed and check for leaks. If the china o rings don't do the job it is only a five bolt job to change them out.
I just couldn't stand it After reading the last two post I braved the cold, changed the fuel filter and cleaned the sediment bowl. When I turned the fuel valve back on at the tank the sediment bowl started pouring fuel. I think that I might have tightened the bail too tight and the o ring either distorted or rolled out of place. Now, with the new yellow cat filter installation there has been a metamorphosis. If I can stop the tiger **** leak without too much trouble tomorrow, all will be well. I sure will be glad when spring comes!
Helo Nitelite,very much enjoyed your thread so far.nothing seems to phase you.I will be watching with interest.keep up the good work.
Thanks for the reply nicky 68a! As long as we have more good days than bad days we are doing ok. When our equipment causes us grief, that is not really a bad day, that is just life. When our family and children are sick or not healthy, that is a bad day. I primed the fuel system on the 951 today and it fired right up. The leak at the sediment bowl, I think, was just due to my over tightening it. The re build job on the transfer pump seems to be working ok with no leaks but the new maintenance meter leaks really bad. The leak is coming from the plastic window on the meter, same place the old one was leaking. Actually it is a used meter. I paid forty five bucks for it plus freight. It got too cold and too dark on me again. That is a fix for another day.
Need help with fuel leak problem. OK, now it is a day later. Does anyone know if the maintenance meter that is mounted to the face of the transfer pump on my 951C is supposed to fill up inside and actually run in diesel fuel? I thought that I replaced the transfer pump shaft seals facing in the correct direction. Now I am doubting myself. I am posting the pump break down from the parts manual hoping for your feedback. I think that I might have one of the seals listed as part # 6 in backwards causing more pressure on the meter than it should have. If so, that would explain my fuel leak from the meter window. Also, on the seal that is shown as part # 17. As I see it, the pictured rubber sealing lip is not facing the direction from which the pressure is coming from. What am I not seeing or understanding when I look at seal # 17 in the schematic ? After really thinking about the seals and how they are arranged and situated in the transfer pump, if they are not installed facing the right direction, or if they fail, the pump could easily inject a steady stream of diesel fuel directly into the crank case via the geared pump shaft. As far as how the seals came out of the pump, I can't rely on that. It was leaking when I bought it and I am not the first one to be working on the leaky gage problem. If it turns out to be a backwards seal I need to correct it. If the problem is indeed poor design of the meter and leaky window, I can machine a dummy meter with no window to replace it. For those in the know, your help and experience will be appreciated. After studying the schematic it appears that the double #6 seals install as I have drawn by hand and posted. If my drawing is correct, then I do have a seal in backwards. As far as seal # 17 goes, It seems to me that the rubber lip should face the pump gears and oppose the pressure. If indeed the schematic is right, then I have that one in backwards also. lastly, what kind of sealer can be used (conservatively) on the machined surfaces as they are bolted together with no gasket and there is no gasket called for. I know that I don't need any of the sealer to migrate into the injection pump. I tried Permatex Form A Gasket. It is supposed to stand up to gasoline and diesel fuel, but diesel fuel will dissolve it on contact.
Looking at the expanded(magnified) view for #6 yes they are in correctly, as to the meter running in fuel, it will need to be lubricated by design whether by installed lube or by the fuel. I would have considered seal #17 to be the seal that stops the fuel from entering there with that one steel lip to inside or pumpside. Look up Loctite products line for a form in place liquid gasket instead of a gasket sealant. Allis used a sealer as that instead of gaskets on those parts that were clearance intolerant, Cat most likely has their own.
Nitelite, I ran into a similar issue on my '63 955H. A previous owner had removed the meter and sealed up the hole with rtv or something. The reason it was removed is that the bolt hole mounts for the meter had broken out. It started leaking on me and I couldn't get enough sealant into the mounting area. I pulled it apart, cut about a 1/2 inch off the drive shaft for the meter, used a combination of something like jb weld with high temp rtv behind it to seal the hole off. This has worked well so far. I have learned that not having a protective screen on the sides of the engine will allow the only stick within 25 feet of the loader to hit the small fuel sediment bowl and knock it off. I lost one that way, but Thompson Cat was able to get me another one at a reasonable price.
Thanks for the post dhutch. I ordered more seals for the transfer pump and rebuilt it for the second time. I did have a seal in backwards and when I purchased the machine there was also the same seal installed backwards. When all is said and done there should be no fuel at the meter. The outboard seal at the meter if installed backwards will cause the meter to fill up with fuel and leak around the plastic window. It seems like the Cat manual calls for the seal to be installed facing the wrong direction. I have no more fuel leak at the meter at this time, however, it looks like it might be seeping ever so slightly from where the two machined surfaces bolt together. I bought the sealer that Cat recommends for that purpose and used it on the machined surface. Expensive stuff too. The seeping is so slight that it takes more than an hour to detect. I did order a third, extra set of seals, just in case.............. I also ordered the sediment bowl seals and stopped that leak. At the same time I replaced the fuel shut off valve at the tank to stop a leak at that location. Next job will be to remove the hood and pre combustion chambers in order to replace the large o rings in the engine head to stop a coolant leak. #2 chamber is the leaker and it looks like the exhaust manifold might have to come off to get access to that one. I have the engine side covers and you can bet they will be mounted on the machine before I start working with it. Amazing where those little sticks will end up. Have a nice day and merry Christmas dhutch!
:bash Pain, despair, and agony on me. Deep dark depression and total misery. If it weren't for bad luck Id have no luck at all. Pain despair and agony on me. :Banghead Just kidding, I am the luckiest guy in the world, but I did just spend four days up a ladder, standing on my head, begging those exhaust manifold bolts not to break off in the engine head. Even with all of the heat and begging nineteen out of twenty six broke off in the head anyway. What else can you expect from a 1971 model? All bolts now have been removed and replaced with grade 5. I now have the quietest dump truck in town. Tomorrow I think I'll de grease the engine and pressure wash it. Then put it on jack stands to rebuild the brakes. Next project, on the Cat 951C, I have to replace the large pre combustion chamber o rings where they fit into the engine head. The coolant leak is coming from #2 cylinder. To get that chamber out it looks like the exhaust manifold might need to be removed. Does anyone know about that for sure? I also have on my list pulling the winch off of the back of the D4E dozer to find out why the power takeoff going to the winch does not engage. ( does not rotate ) Man, I'll be glad when spring gets here so I can work with the equipment, not on it. I just hope it is ready to go to work by then. :beatsme LOL Merry Christmas to all!
Honestly most old Ford exhaust bolts broke away when I worked on them years ago regardless how old they were. I was thinking most were grade eight though, Hopefully you put anti-sieze on the bolt threads.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure most of them were grade 8 from the factory. They sure were hard to drill when they'd break at the surface. When putting a new manifold on, I got to where I'd cut and break the manifolds into pieces, and screw the bolts out with there chunk of manifold on it. It was a lot easier on the old 404 and 446 IHs. Oh, and on the never-seize, put it on the shank of the bolt, too. A lot of times they seize into the manifold as hard or harder than in the threads.
Been keeping up and enjoying your thread, Nitelite. A local dirt contractor did some work back in the late 80's with a Cat 951C for dad. My brother and I were at that impressionable age where we'd get at the end of the driveway looking and listening for the man to come. We'd listen for the deep drone of what I remember was an old GMC, maybe General semi. We could see the big yellow caution light swirling around on top of his cab as it rose above the horizon. On the back of his low boy was a pristine 951C. We'd watch him struggle to get in the gap at the wilderness dad had bought. He did wonders with that 951. Probably much of the reason, years later we wound up with a track loader. Now I feel like I'm living the dream. Glad to hear you survived that episode awhile back and are healthy enough to do what you're doing. Keep up the good work and look forward to more updates.
Yes boone, I spent hours over a few days reading your thread. That was before I bought the 951C. I also took in consideration the cause of your coolant leak when I noticed the antifreeze standing on the cylinder head. I haven't gotten around to pulling the pre combustion chambers yet, but I sure am praying that it is as simple as the o rings and that it is not a cracked head. You know the feeling. After your saga and engine block replacement, I'll bet the pictures that I posted showing the green antifreeze standing on my 951 engine head even made you cringe. When you have to wait until a machine is near scrap price in order to own it, any major breakdown may indeed make it a scrapper. boone, reading your thread I envy you. I would have loved to have been able to spend such quality time on a project with my dad such as you and your dad have spent on your machine. Bond with him and enjoy working together all that you can for as long as you can. Had your loader been in perfect shape when you got it, think of the good old times you would have missed working with your dad and family. I am a 100% disabled veteran and it takes me hours and days to do what I used to do in minutes and hours. Working on and with those old machines keeps me busy. It is either old machines or the old recliner, both smell like diesel fuel now days. LOL Keep up the good work. I catch up on your updates every time I am on the forum. Merry Christmas to you and yours, and happy new year!
Nitelite, Do you have the tool to remove the prechambers? The 5F8353 ? I could loan you ours for the cost of shipping. Besides the large oring at the top there are what Cat calls "gaskets" at the bottom, actually shim washers used to properly position the glow plugs to avoid hitting the manifold. I may have a set of these too. Let me know. I am off work till Jan 9th and could check then. They go for $2.00 to $2.20 each.
Pre chamber tool Kshansen, I have no idea what the prechamber tool would look like. Can I improvise or make the tool. I would be more than happy to pay shipping cost to borrow your tool, and return it to you. If you need a deposit on your tool, I can do that too. Any special instructions on R and R of the chambers would also be appreciated. I do have the repair manual for the 951C. I thought that if I reused the old shim washers, (spacers), that they would be the right thickness to properly position the glow plug. If I am wrong about that and it is not a good idea to reuse the old washers, I can purchase the new ones from you, if indeed you do have them, or I can purchase them locally from Off Road. I have read that it is a trial and error process to select the right thickness washer and that they come in three thickness. I hope to pull the chambers when the weather gets a little better but I am in no big hurry either. I have sent you an e mail and I will wait to hear from you. If you did not get my e mail please let me know. Thanks for the offer, [email protected]
Nitelite, I also have the pre chamber tool if you'd like to borrow it. I could meet you in Clarksville, just let me know the night prior. I work on Fort Campbell, so I'm over that way on a daily basis. I figured I'd need it one day for the 955H and got it at a good deal.
Kshansen, as it turns out, it will be easier for me to connect up with dhutch in Clarksville TN. I also frequent Fort Campbell and shop at the commissary and post exchange there. I live less than thirty miles from the post. dhutch, if you will email me at the address posted above, we might can exchange contact information and connect up at Fort Campbell sometime after Christmas or even after the first of the new year. Like I mentioned, I am in no hurry and will wait on some warmer days before I attempt the pre chamber o ring change out job. Kshansen, thanks so much for your offer of the tool loan. I could still use any and all tips and pointers on how to go about the R&R of the chambers. I would guess, from reading some of your prior post, that you are much farther north from the state of Tennessee. It was a good day when I first discovered this forum!
Ken, Thank you so much for your offer to loan me your pre-chamber tool. As you have noticed on the forum, there was another offer of the tool loan from a local Cat owner. After your description of the tool I looked up the tool # on the web. Off Road Equipment has the tool offered on ebay for $12.00 with free shipping. That is a no brainer and the best way to go, with much less effort on the part of anyone. I certainly thank you for the offer and the advice, you helped me more than you know!. I will also have Off Road send me four each of the different size gaskets in the same order as the tool. Again, many thanks and merry Christmas to you and yours! dhutch, thank you for your offer also, maybe we could meet for lunch one day at Fort Campbell and discuss the old cats. I have never tried the southern cooked meat & three on post. I hear that it is pretty good. I do eat at the Sportsmans Lodge every once and awhile. To learn more about me do a google search for, James M. Cripps agent orange
James, Glad you found one close by! If you need the instructions I should be able to email them to you. Don't forget to get the oring seals for the top of the chambers!
I just ordered the 5F8353 tool and four each of the different thickness lower gaskets from Off Road. I already have the large prechamber O-rings. I am confident, with the information gotten from this forum, that I have all that is needed for the repair. Now I just need Mr. Brown to show up with the ordered parts and a little warmer weather.
Hope the leak is an easy fix. Kinda one of those things where you always hope the cause is something minor, but with this old iron anything could be a culprit. Your exactly right about the good old times we'd have missed if the loader was perfect. I've thought about that a lot. I really enjoy spending time with he and my brother and thankfully we all get along It's good you're still enjoying life and not giving up like a lot of folks would do. I hope I can one day enjoy sitting down in a recliner and smell the diesel. It would mean I'm still working. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours too.
Inside work while watching the rain. Trying to wait on better weather and higher temperatures. The rain has slowed down some but its a little muddy to work on the F600 outside right now. I am waiting on the chamber seals and tool for the 951. Just when I really need my 1960s era Hein Warner 4 ton floor jack to raise the dump truck in order to go through the brakes, she blows a seal. The new, made in China jack just does not cut it. I am waiting on the seal kit to arrive from Blackhawk. I had these angle irons welded together to support the lift cylinders when fully raised to safely work on the 951C. First I wrap the chrome rods so they won't get scratched. I needed someone else to do the welding, I can't use a welder anymore. The magnetic field created when welding don't agree with my pacemaker/ defibulator. I forgot about that just one time, after striking an arc, I guarantee you I'll not forget again! I am able to weld with the oxy/acetylene and I actually went to welding school in the early 1970s on my GI Bill to become a certified oxy/acetylene welder. It's slow.
More than one way to skin CAT! Nige, this sort of looks like Tony's work sites, I think that we use the same garage! I had to use the old track pads under the jack stands to keep them from sinking in the mud. Tomorrow, before I pull the brake drums and get under the truck, I will remove the jack and bring the D4E dozer around and put the blade underneath the front of the truck to back up the jack stands. No offence to tctractors please! I admire his knowledge and his work, If this rain don't stop I'll need find myself one of those Land Rovers too!
Don't you mean skin a ford with a Cat?
Mitch, I know how to skin the Ford, as I said earlier, I'll use two cats tomorrow! Can you tell from the pictures, I wish that I had used taller and wider roll up doors when I built my shop in 1985. All I had back then was a farm tractor and a dog, no cats.
Is that F600 as solid in the body as it looks? Living in the rusty north anything over 10 years old just about disappears before your eyes! The newer, `97 up, F150's are the worst!
Ever think about jacking that shop up and putting an extra couple courses of blocks under it?
Fix for short building Actually, I did remove the top from the left side shed of this building so the D4E would fit in it, but that caused a real bad leak. The F600 cab is rust free just as it looks in the picture. This spring I will do some prep work on it and give it some new color. The sides of the box could use some scraping and painting but the bed floor is diamond plate in perfect shape. When I finish cleaning out the lake and am done with the mud hauling I will remove the box enclosure and use it as a flat bed to haul logs. the high temperature is 27 this morning, I'll wait to pull the brake drums.
My grandson ''Castle'' future operator of my 951C. jr operator for now
Start them young,and they will love machinery forever. Still remember my first ride on a track loader, I was 5 and think it was 455 or 555 john deere, even had the removeable backhoe. He leveled a pad for our swimming pool. Ended up hauling about ten tri axle loads of dirt to his house one day couple years ago we had to get rid of from a job. Told him the story of him letting me ride with him, he laughed his butt off that I remembered that. And said he was glad its what got me into this business. He still has the track loader too.
You can't see much of my son, Castle's dad, in the picture. He is the backwards bowler featured on many tv and news programs all over the US. He was invited, and traveled to Japan where he amazed and entertain the tv sports fans there. Myself, I have to cheat and use a rear view mirror on my loader and dozer. Check him out. thebackwardsbowler.com
Nitelite, happy new year to you and your family, all I need is my son to "bring home the Grandkids" he seems to manage plenty of Spooning and Doing with some right high steppers, I just hope he will settle down and start a family before I collect my 6 bits of wood?? anyhow its all about the weather in the U.K. for the last few weeks it has hammered down rain In some order with a wind blast to take away your breath, I have been trying to do what I can as all my jobs are outside work, I even worked on Boxing Day (26th) to flow test a hydraulic fault on an Extec C12 Crusher as things had eased rain wise, yesterday I pressed up a Recoil for a CAT 951C in a Barn, as soon as I fit the recoil into the track frame I can get the shovel inside the Barn and strip out the engine so things are looking up some as this will be a handy job to drop onto when its just to wet to tackle my other tasks, the temps are very mild at the moment for this calender point so this has helped. tctractors p.s. Every one in Scotland has a "Castle"
Just one more problem I could use some help in the way of input from some of the knowledgeable diesel experts and shade tree mechanics here. My 3304 engine in my 86J--951C loader is blowing some oil or diesel fuel out of the exhaust stack. What would you think would be the cause? There is some whitish blue smoke coming out of the stack and some blow by out of the breather tube. The engine seems to run good. In the pictures you can see oil, or diesel, coming from a small leak at the exhaust manifold to muffler connection. Notice the oil running down the left half of the exhaust stack, in the pictures, it is the shiny side of the top of the stack because it is wet, and the flipper at the top is also wet. You can also see wet specks of oil on the painted hood after a few minutes of idling. I have not really worked the machine since I have owned it. I have installed a new inner and outer air filter and a fresh oil change w / filter. When I got the machine the inner air filter was stopped up and the outer filter was missing. The oil was two gallons low and very dirty. The oil filter was old and dirty but no metal dust inside. I now have the gaskets and chamber o rings to stop the coolant leak at the chamber o rings. I need to drop the belly pan to hook up the sensor for the new converter temp gage and to get at the transmission filter for a fluid and filter change. Do I need to go ahead and do an in frame overhaul at the same time? New pistons, rings, cylinders and bearings? I don't want to do un necessary work but at the same time I would like to have the machine in good shape come spring. The machine seems to run smooth and sounds good, but I have not cracked the injectors yet to test each cylinder. I will do that before I pull the pre chambers. The engine temperature gage did not work when I got the machine and I replaced the gage. It seems to run cool, just barely up into the green, but again, I have not really worked the machine yet. Any and all comments are welcome. My D4E also has the 3304 and it has a dry stack.
Could be a turbo and you might try letting it warm up a little then rev her up and stall it using the brakes and trans and really get it warmed up and blew out from maybe doing a bunch of idling
HATCHEQUIP, thanks for your reply. The 3304 that I have does not have a turbo.
Missing picture Missing picture of the exhaust manafold from my last posting above
Nitelite, that motor in the shovel is a knacker, after a rebuild without putting the engine to work just starting and stopping its possible to get the engine to slobber as in the pic, but once put up a bit of work the slobber effect soon vanishes, as your motor is possibly worn out by the previous owner/s it might be time to give it a birthday, the engines are very easy to do and not to costly (very cheap in the U.K.) to bring up to a good standard. tctractors
Breather tube blowby is generally rings, given a little work time some engines calm down as to that but should it not the only cure is overhaul. Re-ring will only last a short time given that the piston lands wear with the rings over time and will allow new rings to wallow wearing faster.
I am kind of thinking overhaul. In frame about $500.00 in parts if the crank shaft is ok. I have the tools and the time. I know that DMiller is right about the blowby.
Nitelite, today as it was pi##ing down with rain instead of working on a Crusher outside I changed tack and headed for the little CAT, this shovel has been driven into a Barn for a bit of a fettle up, its copped the same sickness as your chariot with black gunk firing out of the smoke stack, anyhow things sort of started off with a wet patch around the hydraulic tank that needed a look at, so I cut a bit of angle iron to 32 1/2" long to stuff into the hoist cylinder on full lick, then pumped out the hydraulic tank and popped the front of the tank off for a look see on the leak, in amongst this I thought stuff it lets have a look in the engine as its runs a bit crap, the bonnet (Hood) is some heavy pig to lift and is better done with 2 or 3 people they are just sort of tricky, I did look at a few items 1 being the valve lash that was set with plenty of daylight to be found, due to the owners request I am going to pop off the front nose group (Rad) as he is keen to have this section steam cleaned, if it is still raining tomorrow I will have the motor stripped pistons and liners wise and possibly price up enough parts to put the bark back into the beast, so will post stuff soon. tctractors
Thanks Tony, post plenty of pictures of the motor overhaul if you get the chance. I am almost certain that I will be doing about the same job sooner or later. I can handle the weight of the hood and the engine head with my trusty McCormick farm tractor/ front end loader. It will hoist 6,000 LBS. I may be able to use the tractor lift to remove the ROPS on the 951. If it the tractor can lift high enough I indeed can use it remove the ROPS, then I can get the 951 inside the shop to do the work. The cost of the kit to overhaul a 3304 is cheap enough here in the US also. Thanks for your reply and stay dry!
hello, I also have a 951c, after some repairs (fuel injection pump, prisoners exhaust manifold, starter, etc. ..) I have started many times the motor without load. After changing the exhaust studs and gaskets, I did keep the engine at idle for 10min to seat the parts and I noticed a bit of oil from the exhaust exit (less than that of your loader). Then I worked with the loader, putting it under heavy load and has not lost much oil.
Thanks for the reply cat 951. I really do like the old 951C, if for no other reason, just because it looks good. Did your manifold studs break off when you tried to remove them?
Hello Nelite , it is true the 951c is a nice loader! But the 955L ( maybe series 13x/8y ) is even better! However, replace the exhaust studs of my loader was easier than expected . Three were easily unscrewed without problems. For the other five I have thought a lot about what was the best method , because the studs were very much corroded ! I did the following: - With the angle grinder, I cut all the nuts on the studs. I then removed the exhaust manifold from the cylinder head without unscrewing the studs. In this way the threads has no longer load and should unscrew easily . - On stumps of studs I welded the nuts, so to heat the studs to take it to the red (be careful not to melt them!!) . - After about 30 seconds, while the tool was acting on the welded nut, I sprayed a little wd40 on the threads of the studs. One did not want to come loose and it broke the weld flush with the head, I tried again , but first I soldered a washer because it is thinner than the nut and the welding is better, I welded a nut on the latter and this is unscrewed. - Magically have unscrewed all, and I have not had to make any hole! I hope this helps , my loader after replacing all exhaust seals, welded manifold and home made muffler makes a roar like when my dad bought it new ! The 951c is a good loader, strong and reliable, my father made about 14,000 hours, now has about 3500 hours on the engine and 80% undercarriage. We have the newest and most versatile machine, but sometimes it's a pleasure start the old alcoholic:drinkup 3304 Cat diesel! Need some stickers and fresh paint..
Just about the same deal as the 3306 I did a couple years back. Nice thing about weld not sticking to the cast of the head. It's always nice when a plan come together like that:drinkup
I removed the exhaust manifold on the dump truck, (posted earlier in this post), using just about the same procedure except instead of using a angle grinder I used a torch to cut the nuts off of the studs and the heads off of the bolts. Access was too tight to use a grinder. After cutting the nuts and bolt heads I pulled the manifold until it contacted the truck frame and then had to cut everything a second time between the manifold and the engine head. I only had to drill 1 hole and then chase the original threads with a tap. Close quarters required an angle drill. Assessing the job, having a good plan, and then some good luck upon execution of the plan can save hours of miserable drilling and tapping. I have yet to finish the brake job on the dump truck because of waiting on parts and mostly the weather, but I have already started shooting the exhaust manifold studs on the 951C with PB Blaster. I think that NAPA carries the new studs. It was sleeting and snowing today. I finished the front brakes before I got too cold and too wet to work outside. After drying off and changing clothes I turned the heat on in the shop and finished the overhaul and reseal of my 45 year old Hein Warner 4 ton floor jack. Works like new again. The last time that I used that jack was about 1971, more than 40 years ago. I jacked up one side of a friend's John Deere dozer to replace a broken sprocket bolt. I think the old dozer was 1010, powered by a 2 cylinder diesel. The jack did the job all right, but before I got the sprocket repaired the jack blew the seals. I put off repairing the jack and now, somehow, 40 years have gotten by. It will be perfect for lifting the dump truck.
Nice looking loader cat951 and thanks for the pictures. I can see that those old studs were subject to breaking off.
A good method of getting broken studs out of a head (or anywhere else for that matter) is to melt some candle wax on to the threads while the stud is cooling after welding the nut in place. The wax "wicks" into the thread in the cylinder head and usually the studs come out as easy as pie.
Nitelite, if you inspect your oil cooler (engine oil) if its around the 40% mark blocked the pistons will have picked up some, although its not in your parts book the piston spray jets off the main bearings would not be cooling the cylinder area enough, I would think you will find no2 and 4 cylinder with rings stuck in the groves leading to the slobber effect, you might have to unbolt the engine mountings and the drive couplings to bar up the engine 10 mm to remove the sump (Plate) this will also need the removal of all the under guards (Belly plates) to get to the sump plate bolts, the cylinder head is not heavy and can be lifted off by yourself after the inlet and exhaust are stripped off, if the pistons have picked up the small end bearings might have spat the dummy out also, these will need replacing and honeing to size.
I suspect that you are right about the slobbering 951 I am still tied up working on the dump truck as the weather permits and parts arrive. On top of the brake shoes and wheel cylinders I have run into bad bearings, front and rear. I am replacing all rubber lines and making up some new steel lines. Then the master cylinder needs attention and I hope the hydravac unit is as ok as it seems to be. This freeze and thaw weather is creating muddy and rotten ground conditions around my work site. The dump truck is sitting on 4 jack stands in all of that mud. I know that the stands are settling unevenly. I am using the 951C loader bucket under the rear of the truck as a safety in case the two rear jack stands fail. If I don't get the rest of the parts soon, I will also need to put the D4E dozer blade under the front of the truck as a safety to back up the front two jack stands in case they fail. When I get the wheels back on the dump truck that will free up the loader. Then I will be able to look into the slobbering problem and address what tctractors and everyone else here on the forum has suggested. I will be out of town the last ten days of the month so it will be the first week in February, weather permitting, before I get back to work on the Cat. If my farm tractor will lift high enough, I can remove the ROPS and get the machine inside the shop. That just might be time well spent.
Just sitting around in this cold weather and got a chance to do some thinking. When I bought my first Cat, the D4E, (27X - W/ 3304 engine), about mid year 2012 the previous owner suggested that I pour 1 quart of outboard motor oil in every tank of diesel fuel. I followed his advice and the old girl seems to do just fine on the mixture. When I bought the 951C, (86J - W/3304 engine) later on in 2012, I just mixed the outboard oil with the fuel, same as with the D4. I didn't measure anything, not knowing exactly how much fuel was in the machine before topping the tank off. Now I am wondering, could that mixture be the cause of the slobbering? Due to the freezing cold wet weather and mid day thaw I have not been able to really run the machine. I just read, on the dozer thread I think, that motor oil mixed with diesel fuel does not burn as hot nor as complete as does fuel oil. I may have caused the slobber problem. What are your thoughts?
I doubt that would cause the slobbering but I've been wrong many times... The oil will help lubricate your injection system components as lately they've taken sulphur out of the diesel fuel and some older equipment needs some kind of lubrication in the fuel to keep injection system components happy... If and when it gets warm out again, take the machine out and work it hard for a few hours and see if the problem goes away.
Thanks spitzair, From what I have read on other threads there seems to be differing opinions on the oil mix. The old girl really cold starts good. If it is freezing I give her about 45 seconds on the glow plugs and a small snort. Above freezing she'll go on the glow plugs alone with about a minute and a half. I think the risk of using small snort needs to be weighed against the cost of a starter. In the pictures you can see that I made it a little easier to shoot the either into the air cleaner. I installed the valve and use a thick rubber washer under the wing nut to keep water from going into the filter compartment. Right now I am just using the machine for an expensive jack. I expect the rest of the brake parts for the dump truck to be in this week. I will be glad to get the truck brakes finished and the truck sitting back on the ground.
That's a nice clever little mod you made there! On my 977Hs the air cleaner is kinda right beside the operator on the left side and easy to squirt some juice in there. It takes a while to travel to the engine so it gets fairly evenly distributed amongst the cylinders by the time it gets there, at least that's my theory... If used correctly and sparingly I think it's not a bad thing, and getting a starter in and out of one of these things doesn't look like the most fun project...
It is easy to spray a shot from the operators seat and just as easy when the either can gets low. A bigger plus is no water running past the wing nut into my intake and air filter.
Nitelite, you seem to have pulled up a chair by the fire, so I thought I would put up a bit of script about a 951C that I am tinkering with for a CAT collector, well anyhow in the U.K. tractor shovels are near always found beat up and knackered after a life of Hell, so this little beast has been a tough un' its needed F/Drive work, track frames swapping out after the welds were ground off as bolts seemed to be to much trouble, then the recoils needed lots of stuff doing to them, I also noticed the engine was not sounding like a "CAT" and slobbering a bit, so I popped the head off to take a peep inside its innards, it looked a bit mank so I popped the engine out and things sort of went off deeper with the crank sitting on the healing bench, I also popped open the hydraulic tank, well the oil was out of it so its silly not to check things out as the return to dig slave piston was stuck anyhow, I might put up a few snaps to give you a smile,as for your water tap thing in the air filter??? I will reserve any verbs on this bit of vandal damage as you own it. hope things are well?? tctractors
tctractors, you almost hit the nail on the head with me seeming to pull the chair up by the fire. When the temperature went down to below zero degrees I left out! I took the wife and flew down to Charleston South Carolina and boarded a ship bound for Nassau in the Bahama islands. We were gone for two weeks and enjoyed 80 degree weather. There were thirty of us, all veterans and wives who made the trip. I am back to reality now and if the temperature will come up to at least better than freezing tomorrow I might attempt to do some work on the equipment. I think that we would all be interested in some snaps of your project shovel. As far as the vandalism on my air cleaner box, my take is that Cat would have done well to install the valve as standard equipment on all of its diesel engines. The modification makes an either snort easier from the seat and keeps me from constantly loosing the wing nut. Thanks for your post.
Just caught up on this thread Nitelite and it's nice to see your progress.I read that T.C has figured that your motor is ready for a good rebuild.It's never nice to hear things like that and ,as an owner,we start pulling at straws and hoping it's just something else easier and cheaper to fix.My own experience with T.C is that he has yet to wrong with his diagnostics. Last year I was draining the transmission oil out of a D8 and he happened to be walking past and saw the bucket.He didn't even get under to investigate but imformed me later(when I was sitting comfortably) that the steering clutches were coming out!.This was bad news as they were totally rebuilt with new bands and clutches less than 2000 hrs ago and the tractor was steering sound.I choked abit on my Tetley's tea and he told me to take the main suction pipe off.I did.It was full of brakeband......I removed them and found the newish brakebands were of poor quality in the rivet department.We have since rebuilt them. I have yet to see him put a foot wrong so you better get some money sorted for the engine rebuild mate. Best regards,Nicky.
When conditions are right I have some large stumps to dig out with the loader and some trees to take down. I think it will amount to about two full days hard running for the old gal. That should be a good test. After that workout I will decide weather or not to rebuild the engine. The complete engine rebuild kit including pistons and new liners, bearings rings and all gaskets is only $500.00 I can do all of the work myself. Any crankshaft work if needed and/or head work would be extra. Actually, I would enjoy overhauling the old girl's engine. The older engines are so simple to work on. Thanks for the post and opinion nicky68a I have read enough on this forum to know that Tony knows his stuff when it comes to equipment repair. I am thinking that I should go ahead and buy the overhaul kit while I can get it for that price and just wait on the optimum time to do the work. I am thinking that if I pull the loader up on two railroad cross ties in order to gain ground clearance, it would be easier to get the belly pans and oil pan off. Rod caps and main bearings would also be easier to get at. Actually might need four 8' cross ties, two end to end on each side to pull up on. I may be able to find switch ties. Switch ties are 16 feet long. My question, is this a safe way to do it? On hard level ground would the cross ties tend to roll with the weight of the loader on them? I am no stranger to mechanical repairs but I am new to working on heavy tracked machinery. Another option, If my tractor front end loader will lift high enough, I can remove the ROPS from the 951 and then get it inside on a concrete floor to do the work. Up on the cross ties on a concrete floor sounds good to me if it will be safe and if if can lift high enough to remove the ROPS. Does anyone have any idea what the ROPS on a 951C weigh? There must be plenty of experience on this forum as to how best to get ground clearance in order to work on the lower end of the engine.
I bought 2 used rail road ties at lows home improvement store and drove my 941 cat track loader up on them. they have worked great.I am a big guy and before i could barley fit under the track loader.lol now with it up on the rail road ties i have lots of room. made it a lot easier to change out my torque converter input seal etc.also for got to add that my cat is on a concrete floor. hope this helps mopar65
Nitelite, its good to see that you have moved the chair away from the fireside, anyhow the best way to strip the engine is by removing the bucket, hoisting the loader frame up to the top and bracing with ether the support from under the fuel tank or angle iron 32"1/2 long?? leave the shovel on the ground unless you scare the scales with your BMI, both under guards need to come off, that patched up trolly jack will be handy on this, then turn the fuel tank tap off and get stuck in, the front nose group will pop off after about 2 hours fiddling if you go this route, the cylinder head is not to heavy to lift, but to drop the oil pan and sump plate usualy involves unbolting the engine mounting bolts and drive bobbins, get the head off first as this task is easier, the 4 poxy sump bolts that are above the hard bar are the cause of this caper, then its into the innards you go, the oil pump is the first thing to unbolt as its in the way of stuff, then the rods can be unbolted and set free with any wear on the bearings etc noted, the liners are next so make sure the block drain plug is out as its wet work else? then its on to the main crank bearings any wear hear will mean you need to pop out the engine its already un-bolted so its just a few oddments and the hydo oil thing to deal with, by this time you should have spotted 2 Lanchester style balance shafts that spin x2 crank speed that might be needing at least a new set of bushings, so you sort of end up with a near bare block as both front and rear structures are in need of removing, a word of warning if you are tempted to remove the injector pump (Scroll Style) the gears are not marked so before you make trouble for yourself turn the crank to TDC 1 and check the crank to cam marks 8 turns max to sort, then grind your own marks to the pump -idler gear as the timing plate needed is costy unless you muck about spill timing the thing ( right mess of a job avoid it) the front pully might be a pig to get off for you, use a spacer off the bolt undone some with 4 1/2" unc bolts though a push plate to ease it off the taper, no levers or hammers near the pulley as it will damage, the flywheel is chisel marked for position on the crank, all the rest is easy. tctractors
Personally I'd buy the overhaul kit at that price. Let's face it the price is never going to go down. Your ROPS structure weighs about 400 pounds, give or take. This is an approximate number taken from the Parts Manual, there is nothing listed in Dissassembly & Assembly. How wide are the cross ties you're proposing to use compared to the width of the track rollers on your machine..? if they are equal to, or wider than what the rollers measure flange to flange then I personally think you'd be OK with them. You'd just have to get them dead centre under the rollers before running the machine up on to them.
Railroad ties for ground clearance Thanks for your post mopar 65. It sounds to me like the cross ties work just fine for you. I am a pretty good size fellow myself. Once I get under the machine and up to where I need to be I am ok. Doing the elbo and shoulder crawl to the proper work location is what is so hard. I am thinking that if I can get a little more ground clearance I can at least use a plywood runway for my creeper.
Thanks Nige. My tractor will lift 6000 pounds so I can handle the weight ok. The lifting height may be a problem. I have located two nearby large white oak trees that are about fifteen feet apart. If all else fails I can chain between the two trees and lift the ROPS off of the loader with a chain hoist. It may be worth the extra trouble to get the machine inside for the overhaul. Not having to worry about the weather and being able to work at night on a concrete surface is a big plus. I also have heat inside.
Nitelite watch for shims under all 4 motor mounts some might not have any and some might have several they are for aligning the engine so that the rubber biscuits "um um biscuits" don't flex from misalignment and crack apart and when putting that oil pump back your going to need to pin those balancer shafts and crank so the engine doesn't try to vibrate out of the chassis. Just wanted to mention those shims so you wont have to go thru all the dial indicator work on getting it back lined up and leave mount bolts loose loose until you get all the biscuit bolts in and tight.
Thanks for the tips HATCHEQUIP. I have read some about those counterbalance shafts here on the forum. I have also seen on the forum that alignment is critical when the engine is pulled and installed. I have a new set of biscuits hanging on my shop wall, just in case I ever need them. I have no first hand knowledge of the shafts but with the warning from this forum you can bet that I will be eyes wide open when I do see them. I also do have the repair and parts manuals for the machine. Maybe with so much knowledge here on the forum I can stay out of trouble.
Wow, it just came to me while thinking about it in the middle of the night, I now know how to easily lift the ROPS off of the 951 with the tractor. I need to use my D4E to slot dose a trench about 4 feet deep. Next I will drive the 951 into the trench. The tractor sitting on the edge of the trench should have no trouble lifting the canopy off of the machine. I can then get the machine inside the shop for the repairs :notworthy
Smart thinking (or dreaming)! I must forget all my epiphanies before I get out of bed in the morning.
That will work. I would do that plus weld 2 plates to the middle of my blade and attach a beam. Tie the beam back to the top corners of the blade with slings. One end of beam has a hole in it for bolt to pass thru beam and the two plates welded to blade and other end has a lifting eye from which your hook or shackle would hand and the rigging around ROPS would attach here. I built a boom that was flown into the mountains and attached to a TD20 so that crews could lift items if required on a high power transmission line damaged in an avalanche. Lifting eye of boom was about 7 ft in air with blade on ground and had about 4-5 ft of blade lift and about 10 ft in front of blade and was engineered to lift about 10,000lbs. To lift your rops or similar I would just make my beam 12-14 ft over all length. The beam I built did have a bend in it about 3/4 of the way up. It was here that the tie back rigging was attached the lifting point was about 3-4 ft out from this. This gave the beam a bit of reach. a straight beam would have had about 1-2 ft less reach.A beam such as this along with your trench should do the trick.Beam would also come in handy doing other lifting jobs as well. Only issue would be the two plates on blade. Use heavy enough plate and they could just stay on there and wear a bit if you anticipate using the lifting beam on a regular basis. Cheers Lowbed Driver
In my own case I think the ag tractor with the front end loader will reach about nine feet up and has ample lifting capacity and enough reach for the hoisting the ROPS. Around this part of the state we have chert. It is part clay and part gravel, good stuff to pave a road with. I think I will dig the trench with the loader instead of the dozer. I will make it plenty long and deep. If I dig the trench close to the lake that I intend to clean out in the spring I can just load the chert on to the dump truck and pave my roads with it. Then I can refill the trench with the muck that I will haul out of the lake later on. Sometimes it pays to just sit around and do nothing but THINK Thinking is a lot cheaper than diesel fuel! ointhead
Oops, thought 'tractor' meant D4E not a tractor tractor with a bucket. Cary on. LOL Cheers LD
I like the idea of the trench to gain height. That will make picking your canopy much safer. When you mentioned putting a chain between two trees my thoughts immediately went to a busted chain and a dropped canopy. When you put a chain or a choker at a flatter than 45 degree angle you quickly lose strength. For example if you hooked two chokers from a hook to an object to be lifted and pulled them as flat as you could in opposite directions so the chokers are almost flat when you pick, the choker is down to 10 percent of capacity. Hooking a lifting device to a chain tight stretched tight between two trees would have the same load effect. A rigging manual is a very cheap and handy tool for safe hoisting.
Old Iron, I'll admit that it is hard for me to visualize myself sitting in the seat of the 951 with the canopy hanging between two trees on a chain just overhead and all that is left is to drive out from under it. Even harder to imagine driving the loader back under the dangling canopy while trying to line everything up to replace it back on the machine. A deep trench and the ag tractor is the clear winner in this episode. Thanks for the input and the idea of building a lifting boom for the D4 is tempting for future projects, especially if it were to be constructed with the idea in mind of it also doubling as a tree pusher.
That sounds like a plan as long as the loader has enough reach to get a straight shot. I've been enjoying this thread this morning while waiting for parts. Especially this.... Any man that's died and lived to tell about it can surely give us all a few words to live by. Thank you.
Nitelite, all this digging holes and bits of rope off trees is giving me a bad Heart, so lets change the game some in the event that your knackered motor fails to heal up, my thought is (In the Yard)- remove the bonnet and front bucket, lift the loader arms right up and pin with angle iron, unbolt the engine easy done in around 4 hours allowing for Tea Breaks, then lower the arms with the Farm Chariot thats grown a bucket, then lift the engine out and place in the low hight workshop, and get the thing to bits, a short day should see this result, this means the belly plates can stay in place, the Tardis can stay in place, with loads of space now left in your workshop to scatter the bits in. tctractors
I agree TC easier to jerk it than inframe it and alot cleaner rebuild
tc , I will be picking up the rebuild kit in the next week or so. I have heard of some difficult times with some blokes trying to realign the engine to the converter so that the connector rubber disc don't give a lot of trouble and fail later on. After reading above in this forum that the engine mounts must to be unbolted anyway, I guess that it would make better sense to pull the engine. An in frame rebuild just sounds easier. The hardest part of the entire job is going to be removing the first bolt. JNB, as long as we can keep ordering replacement parts we have the option of keeping our old machines going forever if we are willing to spend the time required to keep them alive. The problem with life is we run out of repair options and then it becomes hopeless. That is a helpless feeling. We have all been there. Thanks for your comment. As far as being dead, when I think of the events of that day I just grin and push the throttle wide open. I still have options and more good days than bad ones!
Bad weather day! The ice storm reeked havoc with my week. No electricity with the added pain of no power for the well pump, no water either. We have electric heat with a propane back up heating system, so we stayed warm. I quickly got my fill of that so I did what I should have done years ago. After some research on generators I bought a Harbor Freight 7,000 watt / 8700 watt peak portable generator. The rave reviews of the generator justified my choice but the same reviews warned me not to buy the wheel kit because it is mickey mouse. The generator weighs 237 pounds so without wheels it is not so portable. I unloaded it with the aid of the tractor and front end loader. I had two 6 inch solid rubber wheels of good quality so I cut two pcs of 1/2" all-thread for axels and bolted them in the provided wheel mounting brackets at the rear of the generator. I used a Ultra Tow Trailer Jack from Northern Hydraulics (148824) for the front wheel. The mounting holes in the trailer jack match up with the generator roll cage like it was made for it. Use one existing mounting hole and drill the other three. When the generator is rolled outside for operation use the jack to level the unit. The jack also serves as a handle to pull the unit with. I decided to back feed the generated power into my electric service panel. In no event can the main breaker be turned on while the generator is feeding power to the top left 240V 30 amp breaker in my service panel. If that is allowed to happen the generator would be fried. Also if a lineman is working on the line and you send power down the line via your portable equipment, someone could get killed. Note in the picture, I fabricated a plexiglass sliding block to make the scenario of both breakers being on at the same time impossible. In the down position main breaker can be turned on but the generator breaker is blocked and cannot be turned on. Slide the block to the up position and the generator breaker can be turned on but the main breaker is blocked and cannot be turned on. I have hard wired a waterproof box with 240 volt plug out under the carport. I used a ten foot 4 prong 240 volt plug on the Generator. Now, back to the ball game! :drinkup
Be really careful with that set up, there is always a potential to send electricity back down the neutral where circuit breakers don't break that link. The generator auto-swap panels that feed during power failures break that side too and block chances of stray currents getting to the line crews working to fix our problems. I would seriously look into splitting out that system with a generator specific load panel that breaks the circuits during power fails.
I've really been debating on setting up my generator to run my full panel as well. I know the power company can be very tender about switching panels. Around here, I'm pretty sure you have to report to them if you run a transfer switch. I've seen setups that are in essence what you have there, nitelite. It is a four-space panel that has a pair of breakers across from each other with a tie bar between. One breaker hooks to the main feed and the other to the generator. The buss hooks to the breaker panel input. Not much if a system, but it's certified. Fortunately for us, I've had my generator at the ready with 20 gallons of gas (non-ethanol) and have not had to use it once! Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Nitelite, Good thread. I am enjoying reading about your adventures. Keep up the good work. I am sitting here on my 953 watching a dump truck load of debris burn on whats is a wonderful day to be outside burning on the first nice clear spring day here in Georgia. I never new concrete siding could burn but it will. Hardy plank ant that hardy.
Tomorrow's plan. Out of bed early in the morning, (9:00 ish). Hook up my F250 - 7.3 liter diesel to my 16' flatbed trailer, already loaded with about 4 ton of scrap iron. The load consist of old pads, old track hardware, wore out rollers, some copper, aluminum, brass and other old assorted metal. The scrap yard is about a eight mile drive. The load should fetch in the neighborhood or better than $1000.00 depending on the metals price of the day. From the scrap yard I will drive 15 more miles to Co-Op. There I will fill the diesel transfer tank in the back of my pickup truck with 105 gallon of off road diesel. The 951C track loader needs fuel. it is at 40% full. The D4E dozer is 80% full. I need to top them off. The Massey Ferguson tractor needs ten gallon of diesel. The McCormick tractor with front loader and rear commercial grader box needs 15 gallon of diesel. The F600 dump truck needs 25 gallon of gasoline. While I am out and about I will fill both diesel tanks on the F250, about 50 gallons, and fill two 5 gallon cans with non ethanol gasoline for the emergency generator. The Gravely lawn mower is going to need 10 gallon of gasoline. The E-150 work van holds 36 gallon of gasoline and the wife's Honda CRV is almost empty, another 15 gallon of gasoline. My M151-A1 Vietnam era Army Jeep needs 11 gallon of gas for the upcoming Memorial day parade. The pontoon boat and the bass boat will just have to wait! Thank God, I just had the 500 gallon propane tank filled for heat! Attached Images
Mine is a feeble fleet indeed. It is paid for and I owe nobody, nor do I work for anyone. It has taken a lifetime. 1978 - 951C fair condition but getting better. It takes time and $. 1978 - D4E excellent condition on 100% SALT undercarriage. 1971 - F600 dump truck, after much work it is in very good condition, 34,000 miles. 1989 - F250 4x4 diesel/w transfer diesel tank. Bought it new and it now has 71,000 miles on it, always kept inside, like new. 1988 - E150 Ford work van, bought new, now has 86,000 miles. Excellent condition. 1965 - Massey Ferguson commercial/w shuttle, 1965 model, fine tractor, real work horse, owned it more than 30 years. 2009 - McCormick 4x4 AG tractor/w shuttle, front end loader and rear commercial grader box. Fine farm and finish machine. M151-A1 Vietnam era army jeep, 1963, it will do 65 mph all day long and is a rare bird. Proud to own it! The jeep and dump truck run free lifetime antique tags. The F250 is eligible for antique tags but I run free disabled veteran tags on it as well as the E150 van and my wife's 2004 Honda CRV. I am a 1949 model/w untold mileage and thankful to still be fooling around with old iron.
Nitelite you sure don't see many of those M151-A1 Jeeps around I would have though that would all be locked up for being man killers
Stinkycat, you are right on the money with your comment! During my stent in the army 1967-1970 I was actually assigned two separate M151-A1 Jeeps. Yes, the vehicle will roll over easily at highway speeds above 45 mph in a curve. Anyone in service back then who was licensed to drive the, (man killer), had to go through a period of instruction to safely negotiate curves. This jeep had four wheel suspension and the rear wheels would roll in on a curve much like the older VW beetle. A lot of guys still got hurt. After the Vietnam war was over the DoD decided that the MUTT (Military Utility Tactical Truck) was too unsafe to sell to the general public as was the M38 WWII / Korea era jeeps were. As a result, systematically, and by vin numbers, the MUTTs were each cut into four pieces and destroyed. My jeep is a uncut survivor, and that is a story within itself. I know there is one in the museum at Fort Campbell KY and one on display at the Yorktown exhibit at Charleston SC. There are more I am sure. The M151 contract was won by Ford. Vertical grill bars were patented by Jeep and therefore could not be used so the Ford Motor Co. used horizontal grill bars instead, that is the quick way to identify and distinguish them as the Vietnam era jeep and not the WWII / Korea era. Ford also authorized American General to build the MUTT in order to keep up with wartime demand.
Nitelite, I have a "Back up Unit" myself in an old banger of a Willys Jeep thing, Its nothing to fancy just an M38A1, it comes with no road duty just needing Insurance cover at minimal cost, I have stuffed fat tyres onto it and take my garden rubbish to the dump with it, sometimes I use it to go to local jobs, I have had it some years now it was worth now't once but its starting to become a good chariot to have now, the M38A1 has the claim to making the top coin in a car auction paid for a jeep, when someone thought it was something special and managed to get carried away with the bidding on a simple low value Jeep. tctractors
tc, I bought a M38A1 in 1971 and sold it in 1976. I gave $1200.00 US for it and I sold it for a tidy sum more because the buyer was really in heat for the old jeep. The M38s are getting on up in their years and are hard to find in good shape now. A good one demands a premium. Today I got seven hours seat time in the old 951C. This is the first opportunity to actually work the machine since I bought it. I ran it wide open throttle for the entire period from noon until dark thirty. It does have a lot of blow by and some blue smoke from the exhaust. It was too dark to see if it was still slobbering when I quit, but I looked at mid day and I found no evidence of slobbering. I really pushed and worked the old girl hard digging white oak 30 inch stumps in hard clay beside my driveway. I certainly found the machines limits. It will spin its tracks in first but not in second or third gears, is that about right for that machine? The engine never missed a lick and never ran hot. Starts good on 30 seconds glow when cold and firing right up when the engine is warm and restarted. I will check the oil in the morning to see how much it used. I will do the engine overhaul when I get my road work done. My wife said that she saw the smoke and thought that there was a forest fire up on the hill where I was working. I need to cut and re ditch 1,000 feet of existing driveway. The ditching is in soft yellow rock. The loader does a better job digging the ditch than the dozer. The dozer, working with the blade tilted, the blade just wants to slide along on top of the rock. Using the loader and working at about a 30 angle to the road I can dig through the rock. After the ditching is done I will finish and clean up with the dozer. I also have to install two culverts with the loader in the same yellow rock. the rock is fairly soft until it is exposed to the sun and then it gets pretty hard to penetrate. I did have a left track chain slip a tooth on the sprocket a couple of times. It happened when I was backing up while braking the right track in a hard turn. The tracks are running about as tight as you would run a dozer tracks but not as tight as most people run a crawler/loader. In the morning before I start I will give them a shot of grease. When I get the dirt work on the road done I will gravel it with limestone. I have two stockpiles, about 800 ton total. One pile is crusher run and the other is about two inch rock. I will need about 200 ton to re gravel the driveway and parking area. Then I have to relocate the remaining stockpiles to a new location. Each load will be loaded with the 951C and will be hauled about 1 mile with my old 1971 F600. I'll respect the age of the old Ford and load about 7 ton per load. The gravel is a gift from a neighbor who is selling his place and no longer will have a need for the stockpiles. I think I'll overhaul the loader engine before I clean out my lake. I intend to drain the lake in May and start the mucking in mid July. As it has a solid rock bottom under the all that muck I will start on one side and work my way in with the loader and dump truck. The last cleanout was done in 1982 and I hired a owner/operator to do the job. The guy used a cat track loader about the same size as my 951 and a chevy single axel dump truck. The rate back then was 35.00 per hour for the loader including the owner/operator with a 1 day minimum. It took him a little over I week to complete the cleanout, working from dawn to dusk. That first cleanout was done when the lake was eight years old and that was thirty two years ago. This is going to be only the second cleanout. I should find four times the muck than was removed before. The silt is inevitable because I have a moving stream dammed up, a creek! I had it built in 1974 by the same guy that did the first cleanout. I doubt that you would be allowed to put a dam across a creek nowdays, mine is grandfathered in and shown on all maps of the area. Man, how time flies!
The lake was built using a Cat D5 direct drive dozer w/ROPS. He charged me the going rate of $26.00 per hour. Just before the cleanout, eight years later, the owner/operator bought a new D5 with a cab on it and it was power shift. He then charged $35.00 per hour for that machine. For the new power shift Cat he paid $47,000. He liked the D5 because of the weight limits on all of the local bridges. He pulled his iron with an old 1950s Mack single axel tractor and used a dove tail lowboy. He was uneducated, honest, his word was his bond, and he made a good living for a family of four until he died in the late 1990s. He was a good friend for a lot of years and his name was Eugene Campbell. Watching him work so skillfully and the aroma of fresh dug earth always amazed me, and that is the reason for my lifelong dream of owning and operating a bull dozer.
That's a good read Nitelite. Reminds me of the mid-eighties when dad hired a owner operator who had a 951C and a D5 (much like you!) to clear off some property dad and mom had bought to build a house on. The fellow he hired was around $40/hour. He cut several ditches around the property and did a lot of clearing and brush piling. He used the 951 and never brought the D5. He worked for about a week and he'd leave his lowbow in the front field of the property. He drove an old brown chevy dually flatbed that had his fuel tank, compressor, toolboxes, etc for servicing the equipment. I remember it had an amber strobe light on top of it. He used to eat breakfast every morning at a little cafe in town that we'd pass on the way to school - I knew it was him because his truck was always parked right outside. When he worked that week at our place, he'd always have a toothpick in his mouth. Ha, I don't know why I remember things like that. I also remember after a full day of operating the machine, he'd leave in his truck and the dozer would be parked in a random spot hidden from the road. Most each day, the fam would ride over and we'd inspect how things had changed. My brother and I would always jump on the machine. It was usually still warm. I vividly remember that smell of fresh earth and grease/fuel. Nothing like it! I was hooked. It only took 30 years to make our dream a reality.
Nitelite be carefull on those chains slipping on the sprockets Ive seen that get teeth on the final drive gears. enjoy reading your thread
Not a good day at the office! Not complaining though, it is what it is! I checked all fluids on the 951-C loader this morning and did a walk around. I pumped grease in the left track but the right would not take grease. I think the zerk is stopped up and I will deal with it later. Neither track chain looked that loose, about 3” sag measured between the idler and top roller. I walked the loader ½ mile to my neighbor’s place where I dug six stumps where he had cut the tree off even with the ground after the ice storm broke them up two weeks ago. That was three hours of hard digging to get those stumps out and then I filled the holes with a tandem load of top soil. When I got finished with his job I walked the loader back to my place to continue where I left off yesterday evening, ditching the upper side of the 1000 ft. driveway. About two hours into it my left track jumped off of the rear sprocket! It is completely off of the sprocket and top idler. The chain is still on the front idler and the front three bottom rollers are still on. The chain is half way off of the next to last, rearward, bottom roller and all the way off of the 5th, ( last ) roller. My plan for tomorrow. First, I intend to carefully remove the pressure at the track adjuster zerk and then see if I can use the D4-E dozer to push the front idler back. The loader bucket is still loaded with dirt so I will be able to lift the bucket of dirt to put the loader on its toes raising the rear end. Next I will block under the draw bar and then push down with the bucket to lift the entire machine off the ground. Then using the AG tractor front end loader, long pry bars, a come along, and the Cat D4, I should be able to work the chain back on, tighten the track adjuster, and walk the machine 1/4 mile back to the shop where I can inspect everything. I know the sprockets are worn, I just wasn't ready yet. Does anyone have a better method of getting the track back on? Am I going about the job the right way or is there a better way? Any comments and ideas will be welcome. I may, at this time need to do a pin and bushing turn and replace the sprockets. What are the pros and cons of p&b turn vs new chains? My chains are not SALT and they have never been turned. I will take Nige’s advice and call Caterpillar for a Cat undercarriage measurement and assessment. How much trouble is it to do, and how do you go about replacing the sprockets? Does anyone have a good source for the sprockets. I will try Off Road Equipment first to see if they have them. I have heard that if you want to make God laugh, tell him what you are going to do tomorrow!
Nite your plan is right on but for one thing AND DONT TAKE THIS WRONG but with your ticker don't try this by yourself even someone in good health needs a extra set of eyes and hands putting a track on as when your on one piece of equipment you cant see or pry when needed, not saying it cant be done it just makes it allot easier. you take care
I'll try to enlist some help. Your saying that my plan is workable with your experience means a lot and instills a lot of confidence in me. Thanks for your quick reply! After thinking on it I will probably use the loader bucket and a log to push the idler back in instead of the D4. I think using the D4 would tend to push the loader backwards and put the chain in a worse position.
Nitelite, before you get all rev'ed up on your track off issue, count the amount of track links in the chain, as every other tooth seems to be holding dirt? (non hunting tooth) so it possibly has had a link chopped out, on your track fitting thing I find it best to pull out the track, split it open then pop it back on as I dont like to be mucking about plus its easier by myself, the sprocket jumping thing can be a knackered recoil spring, did you see my little shovel repair in shop talk? tctractors
Judging the amount of snake to the chain that is off, pin and bushing turn will help only slightly. My Allis has the same issue where the rail will snake severely, some of that is due to bushing/pin wear but the rest is from bushing to next link eye wear where the two combined will allow the rail to roll off. I agree with tctractors to inspect the recoil springs, then I would consider replacing the rails and sprockets.
TC I think he said some where that its got dry chains, probably have to drive a pin to break track. and with those sprockets worn he could very possibly have a knackered "that's yalls word aint it " track link like your saying.
Hatchequip, if Nitelite was about a 100 miles away (or less) I would pop and fit that chain on for him in the dark, so in the morning he would think the "Fairys" had done it, I am glad you have started to talk normal (like me) and after a carefull study of your work posting on those Cranes, even with the "Ketchup" bottle oil can, those innards on the Navvies are pigs to work on and best left to those that like em' on Nitelites chain count its just to see if a link has already been removed, this would explain the muck in the sprocket tooth, as removing a link often causes the sprocket to loose its "Hunting Tooth" ability. tctractors. p.s. I thought Nitelite was a poor Begger like me??? but it turns out he is up there with Prince Charles with all his toys.
This took me four hours on soft soil to rehang; These took me all day to remove:
Yair I here yall
Prince Charles don't have any 40 year old iron tc I got it back on! It took me two hours and five minutes. Tc, the problem with me doing it your way is that I can't heft a twenty pound sledge anymore. The shock of the hammer blow, especially swinging sideways, is just too much for the old pacemaker/defibulator. If I missed my mark it would probably just rip the wires right out of my old ticker. You know, it is just another one of those newfangled computer things! I curled the bucket and raised it for maximum extension. The bucket was still full of dirt from my last load. I used the AG tractor front end loader to add more dirt so as to heap the loader bucket. All of that forward weight put the loader on its tippy toes lifting the last two rollers and sprocket off the ground. I used a come along hanging from the handle on the ROPS to lift the track chain over the top roller. Then I relieved the track tension grease bolt and pushed the front idler in as far as it would go with the ag tractor bucket. Next I used the ag tractor bucket again to place the chain over the sprocket teeth, one at a time, and then a push on the bottom of the track chain put it back on the bottom rollers. I pumped the track tensioner back up with the grease gun until it got too hard to pump. I fired up the loader and dumped the load and then pushed down until the idler and rollers came off the ground. The grease gun pumped easy with the track off the ground. I did not need to block up under the rear of the loader at all. tc is talking about a fairy, well tc, that fairy came to me in a dream and told me to heap the loader bucket. Ha Ha. Thanks guys!
Todays track placement went so well that would have been a perfect day had I not ran over my vintage Homelite 330 chain saw with the ag tractor. Bent the handle pretty bad and bent the bar to the point that it broke. I forgot that it was in the bucket and tipped the bucket while traveling. Still runs good, just have to order a new bar and straighten the handle a bit. I guess that you could say that I paid my stupid tax today. A question for those who have experience, how much trouble is it to replace the sprockets on the 951C after removal of the track chains? I don't want to loose another track while the machine is in the muck of cleaning out the lake! I know that the chains need to be replaced at the same time as the sprockets, just don't know if I can afford to do that right now. Bad idea I know, but can I just replace the sprockets and re use the chains then run until destruction and still expect the machine to outlast me? The best that I remember and I will double check, my chain pitch, with its wear, is measuring out at 7 inches average over five links. New SALT chains would be the way to go for Prince Charles, but the fairy told me that just might not be in the cards for me at this time. It is a question of either fix it affordably or shut it down. I count 39 links to the side on my 951C, and I think 39 links and shoes conform to specifications, so no link has been removed. Think, farm toy for my use only, what is the worse thing that can happen and how many hours of running will it take!
It doesn't matter how you did it. The track's on, nobody's dead and nobody's in jail. It's been a good day!! :thumbsup
Nite I believe you've got several choices weld on outer sprocket rings , press off and on new sprockets just like the ones on now or press on new sprockets with bolt on segments or they make cups that you weld in each sprocket dip. Since your sprocket seals aren't leaking probably just weld on new rings. I put a set of cups on a old track hoe and there doing ok but its just a farm machine and isn't traveling all the time like your loader is.
I am leaning toward rim replacement at this time. I have a gas ax, a 225 amp stick welder, a 180 amp mig welder and a whole heap of want to! I will call for parts priced tomorrow.
Do the welds stick, use a reasonably good supplier 7018 3/32 rod for tack ons & root passes then upsize to 1/8 or 5/32 for finish passes.
Today I figured out a way to get just a little more track adjustment and both tracks are now tighter than you would want to run a dozer but about right for a track loader. I haven't tried it yet but I think it will be ok for now. I priced sprocket gear rings today, $ 430.00 for both sides at Off Road. New chains, not SALT but with a," bolt together" master link, $1505.00 each side. Salt chains are $ 1940.00 per side. I already have new pads and hardware to reuse. Jeff at Off Road suggested that I run it as long as the track chains stay tight. If they get loose, again, having no more adjustment left, remove one link and run till destruction and get my moneys worth before putting on the new chains and sprockets. That sounds like a plan to me. The loader runs very good, spins the new triple grouser shoes, blue smoke, no more slobbering and it has not overheated in 14 hours hard use. It did burn 5 gallon of oil in the 14 hours though. While I had Jeff on the phone today I went ahead and ordered the complete overhaul kit, new pistons, rings, cylinder liners, rod bearings, main bearings, thrust plates and gasket set. Not too bad at $571.00 plus UPS freight. With the engine rebuild the old gal might not be so blue!
Don't try this at home! In the track loader forum today I posted on Grease Gun’s thread, Cat 955 lift cylinder. I, just kidding around, suggested that he go rent a car and use it to hold up his loader arms and bucket while he rebuilds the lift cylinders, I did remind him to opt in for the insurance. I practice what I preach! In 2001 I needed a shed to put my pontoon boat and a pickup under at the lake property 56 miles from home. My brother welded up the trusses out of 1x3 steel tubing. I drilled the post holes, set the post and bolted a 2x6 band around band around them. We carried the trusses down one weekend and set them. Then we welded 1x1 steel tubing laths across the trusses to screw the heavy gage metal roof to. I wired the structure with plenty of lights and plugs. It is a large structure. To accommodate the pontoon, truck and two riding lawnmowers we built it 18’ wide and 30’ long. Perfect setup, until my neighbor complained after a land survey in 2004 that the left front corner of my structure was 1 foot over the property line and he was just not having it! Then there was a twenty foot setback rule for a structure. I argued that it was a carport and therefore the 20 foot setback did not apply! He argued that it was a pole barn and therefore the setback rule did apply. :beatsme How to move a structure with an all welded roof system without removing the sheet metal and burning the gas ax? Pictures are worth a thousand words my friend, and I did gladly purchase the insurance when it was offered with the rental. I had all of my measurements when I chose the perfect truck for the job. The sides and top of the van were made of fiberglass. I have no idea what the crush weight would be, no sweat, I had it fully insured! The progression of the day was as follows . Rent truck. Drive 15 miles to my shed. Square truck up in front of shed. Remove valve cores from all tires. When all air is gone from tires pull truck under the roof. Block up with 2x6 boards and add air to tires until the blocking is tight. Remove the bolts that secure the post to the band. Air up tires fully and back up with said structure and a pucker. Pull up post with a tractor. Stake out new location just to the rear and 15 feet off of the line. Drill new post holes after eating lunch. Set and tamp the post level. Center the truck up and drive between the relocated posts. Let the Air out of the tires, line up bolt holes in the band with the post as the roof comes down. Remove the blocking and tighten all bolts. Back the truck out of the newly located structure. Release pucker. Park pontoon, lawnmowers and pickup back inside. Fill old post holes and rake the ground at the prior location. Smooth the pucker wrinkles out of the truck seat and return the rental truck without a scratch. The total time spent was about eight hours including lunch.:tong In the pictures note the position of the survey stake before and after the move. The result was a po ed neighbor because I only set back 15 feet instead of twenty. I proved that it was indeed a portable carport, not a pole barn. The county agreed. To this day the neighbor cannot figure out how I accomplished the move as he was not at home all day on moving day. :notworthy It will take two postings to get all of the pictures in.
The rest of the pictures Sometimes it pays to do a lot of thinking before doing. If you are not afraid of pucker power you can do just about anything! ointhead
We did similar with a hay wagon full of scaffold and some cribbing blocks, had to move a canopy similar in size at a fairgrounds some 75 feet, did it in two days but had installed new posts(old ones bad) prior. The fairgrounds management had no idea how we did it to this day either!!
Miller, you must not be able to sleep either!
very glad my neighbors aint like that
We moved my old 16 by 24 ft garage to a new pad when I built my larger garage. With the 12' door rolled up I backed in the opening with a flatbed dump truck with a 18 ft bed. We lifted the hoist about 4 ft, bolted two 2"x 12" x 16' plank togather and stood them on edge across the very back of the bed. I bolted the ends to a stud and nailed a two by six about 8 ft long across the end to spread the load out. We then lowered the bed raising the back end of the garage about 18". We then put two more 2"x12" on edge across the very front of the bed, secured them to the walls the same way. Next we lifted the bed a foot in the front. the garage now rested a ft of the ground all the way around. I drove away and set it down on the new slab. Working with my experienced house moving uncle we moved my old garage in 2 hours after I had the wood material on site. My neighbors stopped later to ask where the garage went.
I'm glad that you introduced me to Jeff! I would have been glad to know him before I rebuilt my 3304!! :drinkup Guilty! I've never used a box truck, but I have moved a 10'x20' garage that was 15' tall through the country about 8 miles. It was on a concrete pad, so we knocked one end out of the garage and backed a trailer inside. We jacked up the building about 6" and strung 2"x8" boards across the deck of the trailer to tie into the stud walls with bolts. We cleared most of the power lines I moved another one out of the back lot of our yard when we had a house in town. It was 10' wide by 24' long, but much shorter... Got a weird look from the town cop and the neighbors as we pulled it down main street!
Nitelite, your mobile car port thing is 3 times the size of my house? boy do you have some tricks, firstly well done with the track on job, mission completed with no drama and now't knackered, then this "House" move antic partly due to a scabby oik' next door, I know what he would get in his plant pots for a few weeks!! anyhow you should have known better that poaching a bit of his field shame on you, but the way the Penthouse was moved is a Classic bit of Mind over Matter, it sort of came in your mind that U-Haul dont matter, I love it and bow to the "Alpha Male" if the local donkeys near me spotted those snaps, they would all be building Car Ports on their roof racks then driving about with it in place. with a big Smile tctractors
Kinda looks like some mobile homes around here. When the roof starts leaking bad, they just build another one on top of it. I agree.....nicely done. Especially the "lift" you got from deflating and re-inflating the tires! Have the folks from U-HAUL contacted you yet for the advertising rights?
I do sleep nitelite, just not too deeply and never when I need to get work done. Spent a 12 hour night shift last week, next day off so went to the farm, cleaned up and replaced the lower bucket pin boss retainers, right side still had one ear but had been welded on by some dumb slob with more scrap than brains, left side was completely gone, fabbed up the 1/2" plate pin bosses, added 1/4" plate brace plates and went to work, got both lower pins where they are more readily removed so I can pull the bucket when I need to drop the right truck for sprocket shaft seal work. Was up a solid 26 hours. Also have a GP bucket for the old monster, need to order up some AR steel plate for the sides and belly, order a replacement blank cutting edge and have the shop punch a few holes for Cat 955H bucket teeth I got on the cheap. Then more rods to burn but a decent spare GP with a functional MP bucket.
Tc, If you had one of those portable roofs mounted on your Land Rover you could take it to the job sites and never have to work in the rain again. Slow down on all of the new words, not so fast, I have only barely translated the word knackered! On the track off deal, without people like you and others posting your experience and knowledge I really would have had a rough time putting the track back on. I really didn't believe in faries until I met you! Again, thanks guys. I can't wait to get into the guts of that 3304 to see where all of that oil went, just another adventure. Tomorrow I will remove the four foot high steel sideboards and tail gates from the dump truck. I need to choose the right size white oak tree to cut down and have sawn at the sawmill to fab up some 18" tall sideboards for the dump truck to haul gravel. It should take about thirty loads to complete the gravel job on my driveway. Before I retired, I don't know how I found the time to work!
kb9tci, we have read the post of how you moved the 15' tall garage, now we are waiting for you to tell us how you went back and got the slab? I couldn't afford to run my old iron without Jeff. When I talked to him and he said that he had just talked to you.
I ended up calling the mixer truck on that one I'm grateful that we have Jeff to turn to! I finally got my crawler out today and ran it a bit. The rollers he sent me are working great! Now if the rest of the machine holds together... Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
My engine overhaul kit arrived today. I have a few days work that I need to do with the loader before I get around to tearing the engine down. Today I removed the factory grain sideboards from the dump truck. I cut wood stakes and used 2x treated lumber to replace the old sideboards. I used a 2x12 and a 2x8 on top of the 2x12 I ended up with 19" tall sideboards. I think it will work great to haul about thirty loads of gravel this weekend. Tomorrow I will be ditching the upper side of the driveway and installing culverts, getting ready for the gravel. The driveway is 1/4 mile long.
I hope that you post a few good photo of the driveway, and culverts. good thread Nitelite.
Good old truck! Here is the after and before of the dump truck sideboards. I think it will be easier to load and haul gravel with the lower wood sideboards. Those new stakes are made of cherry and walnut, that is all I had! I cut those cherry and walnut trees back in 1973. When my daughter was born I cut a huge cherry tree, sawed and stacked the lumber and when she was 26 years old I built her a nine piece bedroom suit out of the lumber. When the new treated lumber dries out a bit I will paint the new sideboards and just might do a little prep work and spray a little color on the cab too. I am thinking a black bed with a cat yellow cab. This is my old faithful 1989 F250 diesel. I bought it new and it is an antique now. Where did time go? wosama931b, I'll be sure and take some pictures of the driveway ditching, culvert instillation and gravel job to post tomorrow.
The ol' dump truck looks great! I wish mine still looked that good, but it's days are numbered I'm afraid...
Some of my handywork! Here are pictures of my daughter's cherry bedroom suit that I built from the tree. Before I had my first heart attack in 1997, that is how I made my living. I built custom furniture for a lot of the country music stars and singers. My heart doctors were my customers long before I became their customer, I had built their furniture.
That is some fine quality work there Nitelite! When my wife and I buy a new house you're hired!!! We'll need a bedroom set, possibly a kitchen, and who knows what else we'll think of!
I really do miss wood working in the shop. The inscription is on the inside lid of the blanket chest, more is inscribed on the back of the headboard. our family history, and family lineage is inscribed in a wooden book that went with the blanket chest. I named all of the bedroom suits that I built for the children, This one is named, " Theres' No Place Like Home". Custom high end furniture was my specialty. I mostly worked alone. The building in the background of the dump truck is a fully equipped furniture shop. All equipment is as it was when I worked in it. My last job, due to more heart trouble, was in 2006. A cat loader sure would have come in handy back in the day when I cut my cherry and walnut trees. I used the[ 38 horse Massey Ferguson ag tractor and a boom pole to handle the logs. This is my bed, its name is "HOME" It is a king size, as they all are, and I cut the trees down for the lumber. It is Walnut hart wood, walnut sap wood, cherry hart wood, cherry sap wood and hard maple. It is also inscribed on the rear of the headboard. The lumber is air dried 25 years. It will be left to my adopted daughter when my wife and I are gone. My son also got a solid cherry railroad bed. Everything that I have ever built is a one of a kind piece and will never be duplicated. The value, priceless! ATTACH]116170[/ATTACH]
Wow! :notworthy
Kind of reminds me of something a few years back. I was at a sidecar rally and was helping one of the guys load his sidecar on a trailer and he has these wood wheel chocks to keep it in place. They are made out of black walnut! Seems this guy makes hammered dulcimers as a hobby and it was all he had to work with! The Cat yellow and black sound good but I'd be tempted to just clear coat those stakes:notworthy
Nitelite, wish you were closer I'd love to be able to give you a hand with that engine rebuild. If you have any questions I'll try to help with any info you need.
Awesome!!!
Working with steels one thing working with wood like that is something else. Super nice work
A day of actually working with the machines, not working on them. Spent first few hours of the day building a haul road using the D4E dozer to transport the stockpile of gravel for the driveway. I finished the road and slicked it up with the ag tractor and grader box. Next I started ditching the upper side of the driveway to my house I used the 951C for the ditching. The ditching needs to be made deeper and wider to keep from loosing the new gravel to rain runoff. New culverts go in tomorrow and more ditching farther up the hill. Every piece of equipment ran and operated good today with no trouble at all. You can see, in one of the pictures, just the tail end of the lake that I am going to drain and clean out next month.
Loads of fun, I worked till dark thirty! A few more pictures of the days work. There are two gravel piles, one is crusher run and the other is two to three inch rock. The old gal is not fast but she will still load a heaped bucket and walk away with it.
I wish you were closer too, I could use the help of someone with your experience. I was a tactical vehicle mechanic in Germany while stationed in the army there in 1968-1970. When I got out of the army I was a mechanic in a truck shop and then spent the next 20 years as a mechanic for Exxon Co. USA. I am no stranger to dirty and greasy hands! I don't doubt that I will have questions, my experience back then was mostly with gas engines.
It is obvious that the old gal and I put in some time. I put another eight hours on the loader today. More ditching on the driveway and dark got me again before I could get started on the culverts. I seem never to get everything done that I expect to at the beginning of the day. That old loader amazes me with just how much it will break out and carry in a load. I was backing up several times so steep with a heaped bucket that I thought that she would never break over. I had to just hang on to the monkey bar, seat belt on, and give the machine its head. I would have jumped into the back seat if it had one. No mechanical problems at all today. Just a fine dirt moving day and that is as good as it gets in my book. The lake to be cleaned out My old ag tractor does the clean up work While ditching I actually sloped the bank back another ten feet. My driveway going up the hill to the highway
Full, heaped bucket full bucket with two trees
Day three I just knew that I would get those new culverts in the ground today. My priority was to finish the ditching though. For the finishing and cleanup of the ditches I used the ag tractor. I first cut down to solid rock with the track loader. When white smoke sizzles off of the bucket teeth, that is as far down as you are going unless you have explosives. I dug it down as far as it needs to be to carry the runoff rainwater to the culverts. Hopefully, tomorrow I can get those culverts in and start hauling gravel. The wife just don't understand it when I dig up what she considered a perfectly good driveway and then it rains. Its good business for the car wash though! The nature of local clay mud is, the farther you walk in it, the taller you get! I have got to get going on the graveling! :beatsme Almost ready for the gravel and then maybe tar & chip. Limestone gravel is getting too expensive to loose! Ditched down to rock and the banks cleaned off. An old pcv 8" culvert needing to be replaced. A shot of the lake from the driveway. To drain and cleanout the lake is the next job for the loader and dump truck. Two new 12"x30' culverts waiting to be installed.
Looking really good there Nitelite! Love the pictures! How is the smoke on the 951 now that you've used it some? Getting any better?
I might be getting used to the smoke, but it still has quite a bit of blow by. It is burning oil but the old engine is very strong and no more slobbering. It will run hard for eight hours at a time, spinning its tracks while prying up layers of rock and no sign of overheating. I am a tinkerer and I already have the new engine overhaul kit sitting in the shop. When I finish the road work I will pull the drain on the lake and tear down the engine for the overhaul before putting the machine back to work cleaning out the lake. When I built the lake in the early 1970s I put a 6 inch pipe through the dam with a brass gate valve just off of the bottom. The water in the lake is twenty six feet deep on the lower end at the valve. I will loose a lot of fish but will restock after the cleanout is completed.
Good plan on draining the lake and letting it dry while you tinker on your engine! I just did a bunch of work on my '63 977H and they're actually pleasantly easy to work on I find. Just some of the bits are heavy as I'm sure you've already found. Your tractor and loader will be a huge help! A nice warm shop to work in will be nice too! Our shop is only heated in the back part, where the cat don't fit... At least I was out of the rain and wind. Looks like a beautiful piece of land you have there! Cheers!
Nite I hear ya about the rock I can remember dad years ago when Preston Carroll Co. would get a pipe job around Nashville he would tell the superintendent that he would send the air compressors and drills first so they could blow the dust off the right a ways and start drilling.
,Mostly what I am digging is yellow rock. When it is fresh dug you can cut it with a hand saw. Let the sun hit it for a few weeks and you can't cut it with a hacksaw! I am getting into limestone a little deeper down. When I see white smoke boiling off of the bucket teeth I know that I am down as far as I can dig. It is good stone for building a retaining wall. I am in Cheatham County TN. Nashville is in Davidson County, an adjoining county, Davidson County sits upon limestone. If you don't have the ability to drill and use explosives, you are not going to dig very far.
Culvert instilation day Wow, I got the culverts in today. That was some hard digging in some pretty hard rock. Now, finally, maybe I'll get to haul some gravel!I know for sure the old loader will enjoy the easier job of loading the dump truck with gravel. This ditch for the culvert became so large because of the size rocks that had to be removed to get to the right depth for the 12" culvert. The left end is still higher than I would like to see it but the rock was just too solid to penetrate with what I had to work with. In the picture, that is a piece of the old culvert that I removed.
Nitelite, you will find its best to have the loader arms up to the sky (top of lift) to work on the engine, the belly plates can stay in place if you snatch out the engine. tctractors
tc, I need the belly plates off to clean out for fire prevention and to change transmission fluid and filter. Also have a torque converter temp gage sensor bulb to replace down there. I don't mind pulling the engine for the overhaul and that is probably the way that I will go. I hear horror stories about getting the proper alignment between the engine and torque converter when the engine has been removed. Are those stories justified? I am a particular person and I don't mind taking whatever time to comply with the required procedure to get proper alignment. I have already purchased a new set of engine to converter mounting disk. After weighing your comments, it seems to be sound logic that I will make better time and get a cleaner job by pulling the engine. Do you happen know the approximate weight of the engine with the head in place, just disconnected and ready to pull out? After working it his seems to be a really fine old shovel, worth putting back in top shape for the long haul. It has just been neglected by the po. It is way past bedtime on my side of the world.
According to SIS for the 951C 69H serial number range it weighs in at 2,000 lb.
Thanks, I am sure that my ag tractor can handle that much weight.
If you need any of the step by step removal instructions from the manual send me a PM with the s/n and I can email them to you.
manuals I have manuals, you may have more detailed manuals. I won't be hesitant about asking questions should the need arise. Thanks for the offer kshansen!
Hauling gravel I used the dozer to build a haul road to my the gravel source. One hill is really a steep grade steep, granny low is required going up unloaded and especially when coming down loaded. I just put new brakes on the dump truck but if it jumped out of granny low coming down that hill I wouldn't trust the brakes to hold, the truck would just go into a slide. I would jump and there would be a runaway truck situation and a crash in the bottom of the hollow. I will get pictures of the haul road tomorrow. I am not that brave, just thinking ahead.
really enjoyed the pictures of your equipment working. reminds me of my land clearing projects on our farm. absolutely beautiful work on the furniture. I truly hope that you have some kids or someone near you that learns about your trade. truly an art form that needs to be taught and passed down.
Thanks for the compliment on the furniture. I would have liked to have passed that business down to my son. He did learn the basic trade working with me through high school. He does really well in his chosen profession. I hired a few young people and spent a lot of time teaching but seems like everyone just waned a weekly pay check and learn nothing, you know how it goes.
Brakes did fail! Well, Murphy's law prevailed again. I hauled twelve loads of gravel today. On the loaded return leg of the last trip I noticed a sucking noise from the vacuum brake booster and coming down the steep hill in granny I was going a little faster than I wanted to go, standing up on the brake pedal didn't seem to slow the loaded truck down a lot. Up until that point the brakes were very touchy and really stopped the truck very well. I have not had time to investigate yet as it was getting dark, started thundering and then it began to pour down rain. I won't be able to travel the haul road until it dries up or I will get stuck. I am coming down a steep grade going, going across the culvert and then headed up a steep grade on other side towards the gravel pile. Lost the brakes descending this grade! Like I said, I am not brave, just a little chicken while standing up on that brake pedal on the last trip of the day. The section of the road that I cut with the dozer last week. The last hill coming back loaded.
More pictures my the gravel day A steep grade to negotiate with no brakes! Loaded with three and half scoops, about five ton, ready to ascend that grade. Hard pulling here in granny gear. Stopped here to get a picture of a deer, mistake, notice that there is just enough grade here that I spun wheels trying to get started again and got stuck, backed up a little and barely made enough speed to get out of the ruts. The deer were still there on the return trip, a momma and three yearling fawns. Ok! Lets get er done! DMiller, help , I think that you said that you cut your teeth on old Ford trucks and that you knew about their brake systems . Keeping in mind that I have not checked anything yet, what is your take on the brake problem. I hear a sucking sound, sounds like a low pressure high volume air/vacuum leak when the pedal is applied. Noise stops when you release brake pedal. It sounds like it is coming from under or behind the seat. There is an air filter or air intake behind the seat and affixed to the top of the, (behind the seat), gas tank. It is attached to a plastic tube and I think that I will find that the tube goes through the floor to the hydrovac unit I know that the hydrovac booster is mounted under the truck below the seat but it sounds like the noise is coming from inside the cab behind the seat. Like I said, it was thundering, lightning, getting dark, and pouring down rain so I just got out of the truck and went to the house. I seem to remember that a hydrovac unit is not available maybe a rebuild kit is. I am pondering changing over to a later model master cylinder and vaccum booster. Maybe go shopping at the salvage yard and look around for something that might be used with some amount of alteration. What is your take on that, or do you have another idea? I have also heard that a school bus of that era had a brake system that was different but transplantable into that old dump truck. You know, Fred Flintstone had a better braking idea than the hydrovac!
The diaphragm on the hydrovac(under the drivers cab floor) is probably torn. If it is you will be well advised to get that one rebuilt or exchanged. The air whooshing you here is the at the filter under or behind the seat to keep debris out of the hydrovac itself, some vented them outside but most did so inside the cab to minimize the amount of crap that would get in one. Keep that filter open and exposed!!
Nite try brake supply up in evansville ky. 800-457-5788
It's been about 10 years since I worked on hydrovac brakes, but I used to spend a lot of time with them. 10 years ago, rebuilt hydrovacs were available thru Carquest and NAPA, but I never did find parts or rebuild kits for them. I agree that the diaphragm is blown. It used to frustrate me badly that a good working unit would blow a diaphragm and I couldn't just replace it. On edit: I looked around a little and found these. http://brakematerialsandparts.webs.com/boosterrebuilding.htm http://www.remaninc.com/ There's more out there, google it. Oh, btw, once you put it back together and bleed it, crank the truck up and bleed the unit with vacuum on it once. It seems to help.
Well Nitelite, I have been working up North on a torque/divider job so have been a bit "Biso" anyhow back to your banger with the mullered motor, keep in mind that with the engine lifted out you can get to that trans' temp thing easy through the big hole left by the missing motor, also you can get to a few hard to reach filter spots as well this is with the belly plates still bolted, the engine does have a few tricky spots for the Maiden mechanic to sweat over, but setting up the drive blocks is easy as I have done it with a welding rod and hose clip, its more fancy with a dial gauge but the engines usualy need shimming at the front due to "rubber troubles" you will spot it? so my thoughts are leave the shovel outside and take the engine into the shop, the flyweel and back case are heavy lumps that can be stripped off if the weight is to great to carry any distance with your farm billy thing. tctractors
Thanks for the input tc. As far as your working up north. I would think, considering that the fact you live at the bottom of the world, any direction for you would be north! I will get to the shovel overhaul soon enough, I just need to wrap up a few small jobs with the machine before I tear into it. I haven't even opened up the kit yet to have a look.
Hydrovac Ok, today I removed the hydrovac unit from the truck and disassembled it. The large and small diaphragms both look really good. The rubber parts are not hard or damaged in any way. Other than some rust and corrosion I don't see anything suspicious at all. Tomorrow I will have a look at the innards of the hydraulic cylinder that is mounted to the hydrovac. After I inspect and clean everything real good I will reassemble it with new steel lines and new rubber vacuum hoses and try it again. I only have one theory as to the cause of the problem at this time. The 3/4" X 6'six foot hose that runs from the hydrovac unit, through the floor behind the seat to the intake filter above the gas tank looks like it might be collapsing. It is a light weight rubber hose with a spring in the center to keep it from collapsing, sort of like a hair dryer hose. I will replace the hose and hope that it is indeed the problem. I will also remove and clean that filter above the gas tank. I am thinking that if the filter is stopped up with forty years of crud, that could certainly cause the hose to suck together and pinch off the opening. The old truck is not used on the road at all. Out of curiousity ,before I put the hydrovac unit back on the truck I am going to use a steel line to bypass the hydrovac unit. I would like to see just how much braking power is lost with no vacuum assist whatsoever. This would be the time to address that question. I'll let you know! The hydrovac unit some amount of crud and corrosion The small diaphragm The large diaphragm
If I do need parts I will give them a try. Thanks Hatch!
Nitelite, if you own an Atlas and open it to the big pic of the World, the U.K. spot is in the middle of the page at the top, up North for me is anything past Junction 15 on the M6 Motorway, as they all talk odd past this point, plus the pressure is on from the time you get to site with spanners spinning, things have evolved some on the Torque/Divider job for me from a simple repair to finding the most knackered convertor I have ever seen "still working well" upto the point of me stripping it out on any D8 tractor, the owner also now wants the transmission stripped down after looking at the bits in the magnet screen, all I need now is a young chap to tackle it as its all dog all day, your little shovel is a fun thing to repair with only a few spanners needed, did I ask about the type of injector pump fitted to your engine? as a pic would be handy, this point might save you some trouble depending how deep you take the re-build. tctractors
DO NOT dive that truck without that Hydrovac. The brakes are almost nothing without that unit and you could end up getting hurt. Somewhere on the main diaphragm or in the application valve(second photo) there is a leak from engine vacuum to atmosphere, the hose isn't collapsing to cause the noise but a leak internally will send the suction up the vent hose. It will always make some noise on apply/release but with steady pressure on it should be quiet. If that is brakes fluid on the parts the seals are out on the main brake valve, it will need to be resealed to reinstall, the engine won't like eating brake fluid for very long. A Hydrovac is around twenty to one at full application advantage over manual application on brakes.
TC I was thinking about that to, if he has the old schrol or sleeve metering if its the old style I can let him borrow a plate to time it back up, just holler Nite
double post
Injector pump The loader is at the other end of the haul road at the gravel pile and will be for a few days until the wet weather improves. I hate to leave it there so long. You know the chances you take leaving a machine off site like that. Thieves see it as an opportunity to get two big batteries that will sell by the pound and fifty gallons of diesel fuel. Not to mention log chain, fire extinguisher, gages, and general sabotage in the name of fun. All fluids and compartments are padlocked but that is nothing to the determined. I drove over there today to check on the machine and take pictures of the fuel injector pump that Tony requested. I forgot to take the key and it is sitting there with a full bucket of gravel with the loader arms down so the injector pump can't be photographed. I will check on the machine again tomorrow and get the photo of the injector pump and post. Thanks for the offer HATCH, I may need to take you up on it. Tony, your last post has me convinced to pull the engine and leave the loader outside. By the time I get around to the overhaul the weather should be warmer.
After getting back to the hydrovac problem today, I think that your theory is spot on. I can see where the master cylinder has leaked into the hydrovac unit. From what I have found so far, a new unit is not to be had and a rebuilt unit may be hard to find and very expensive. I am looking for an alternative booster system. My brother has a 1933 Chevy fire truck. The previous owner did away with the original vacuume brake system and installed a firewall mounted dual diaphragm heavy duty brake booster with a split system master cylinder and portioning valve. The system works well and the old truck seems to have plenty of braking power. It seems like a simple enough fix for my own application. I am going to "Pull a Part" and see if I can find what I need for an easy change over.
While surfing the net in the wee hours I just might have found a rebuilt hydrovac unit for a reasonable price. The advertised application for the unit does not list a 1971 F600 year model but does specify 1975-1977. The picture sure looks like my part and I have emailed the source for more information on the range of application. (crossed fingers and waiting)
Should be a P/N on the old unit, around the valve head area, (been awhile since I looked for one), get that number and cross reference, should service a few other makes as well(Ford, GMC,IH).
My old F600 has absolutely no brakes what so ever, but I know the hydrovac unit still worked last time the brakes did... If you can't find one I might be able to send you mine, chances are the truck will be scrapped pretty soon anyway... I just have no idea when I can get to it though...
Bypassing the hydrovac until I decide on a fix. Thanks for the offer spitzair, I have one more place to look Monday morning, So far I have only drawn blanks. Thanks for the offer, if you do scrap the truck and I still have not found a unit I will take you up on your offer. I did bypass the hydrovac to see how the truck would stop with no assist. It takes pedal pressure but you can stop the truck in a decent amount of time. I wouldn't want to put it on the highway, but it serves my purpose for now. So much junk. The steel tube bypassing the hydrovac The 16' bed on the dump truck is too long past the pivot point at the rear. The end of the bed actually rest on the ground at full dump, causing materials being dumped to mound up and stop sliding out of the bed. Pulling forward while dumping works ok but you can't dump a pile of gravel. While the weather is still too wet to haul gravel I decided to cut 27"off the truck bed. I cut down the sideboards and marked the bed cut lines with soap stone. In the morning I will commence with the gas ax. That piece of steel diamond plate being cut off the truck bed will be repurposed for a new top for my welding bench. I already have the steel legs and angle iron frame welded up and waiting for a top.
Heck, just add legs to the piece you are cutting off the truck. Instant work bench! Andrew
That or put some side pieces to hinge it from and use it for a tail gate for that shorter bed
Naw, he'll probably make a tailgate out of some black walnut!
Lol
Which injector pump? Tc, can you tell what injector pump the loader has from this picture? If not I will get a better one.
scroll system Nite, the old style
Nitelite, it is as the Hatchett said a Scroll style pump, these are in my mind better than the sleeve control pumps, but they are a bit of a bounder to set (time up) if you dont have the plate or lack the knack of spill time setting, the thing to watch out for is if you remove any of the front gears or crank you will be in trouble, unless you mark the gears with a thin grind mark, the crank is marked so is the cam gear, the Lanchester balance shafts are usualy marked with a D on the left and an H on the right, you dont need these marks on the balancer shafts though as they cannot be fitted incorrectly due to the bolt peg location and the fact the helical gear cut is at opposite angles, so if you get involved with anything inside the front gear case or remove the crank, get your grinder out and with the crank and cam gears index marks in place mark the idler gear and pump drive gear for position, that is 4 grind lines, the idler gear usualy needs a new bush and possibly a new spindle mounting, dont be tempted to mark the gears with ow't else as felt pen etc soon washes off. tctractors
Nitelite, try these people with the 800 number, perhaps they can get you to a point of ID on the Hydrovac the replacement can be had: http://discount.123autoparts.com/PartType/brake_hydrovac_unit.html Sounds like a lot for a unit but pretty cheap if you treasure your own life as to brakes. All I did was search: 1961 Ford F600 Hydrovac, quite a few variations came up. Another way to ID the exact unit is to call a Ford truck dealer, they can research the chassis s/n to tell what was the Ford p/n on it then can be cross referenced.
Thanks tc and HATCH for the advice on the timing of the 3304 scroll pump, I will be careful and grind the marks as you suggested. Thanks for the parts leed Miller, I did send them an email asking if they had a hydrovac that will fit my truck. I looked at the site and they don't list my unit. I started out this morning to make the gas ax cut on the dump truck bed but momma was complaining because the tv signal was poor. That little project took some time out of my already planned work day doing machine maintenance. You know what they say, " if momma an't happy, nobody is happy". So now its go find the ladder and read up on roof top antenna adjustment for best signal. The book said to point the antenna to the west so I pointed towards where the sun goes down. Next,I got on with cutting the truck bed off.
I think the antenna looked better when it was pointing North, better reception too! I cut the channel bed rails first, then the outside rails and last, the floor. I needed the assistance of the ag tractor Roll the bucket and pick it up and its done I should not be backing into near as many trees with the shorter bed! The width of the top needed for my welding bench was the deciding factor as to how much to shorten the dump truck floor.
Nite, I should have the timing plate for that pump. I believe it's the same as used on the 3306's we had in the old 966C loaders. If you can't find one to borrow close to home let me know. I'll check the tool shelf to make sure someone has not borrowed it and forgot to put it back. Ken in NY
Tool loan offer. Not having experienced a rebuild on a 3304, I don't know if I will need the plates. HATCH has also offered to loan me his plates. If they are required to time the engine I will take one of you up on the loan offer and will be glad to pay the expenses for shipping. It will be a little while before I will need them. I have to finish up working with the loader first. Thanks
Just rambling on. Miller, I had no reply to the email that I sent inquiring about the hydrovac that you found. I did find one though. I ordered it from Amazon today. It is about $150.00 including freight. It will be here in about one week. No core charge or sales tax either! I did manage to haul six loads of gravel today and three 16"x10' culverts with the, "look mom, no brakes, dump truck. The shortened truck bed works much better. :notworthy Wow, not one reply about the tv antenna. I know what you guys are thinking, you must be thinking," If that guy is so stupid, to actually aim the antenna in that manner, then he will never get that cat engine torn to bits and put it back together again. The truth is the wind broke the antenna pole a month ago. We have Dish now and I have not had the chance to take it down. I couldn't resist the opportunity get a laugh out of the forum! :beatsme These boxes contain the engine overhaul kit for the 3304 in the track loader. I have not had the time to open and inspect the kit yet.
Nite, Sorry about the lack of response, I'm sure everyone knew you were making a funny, I know I got a kick out of it and knew you were just putting us on:notworthy Actually I was thinking you were pointing it that way in hopes of picking up some stations from Australia or maybe just some "underground" TV station!:cool2 As for the fuel pump timing plate it's sitting on my bench at home just waiting for you. It has been many years since we needed it at work so if you get to where you want it let me know. If you find yourself in Central NY somehow you can stop by and pick it up in person.
The rebuilt brake hydrovac unit. I finished hauling the gravel using the loader and dump truck. Thirty three truck loads in all. I still have to order several tandem loads to complete the driveway. Just a few more small things finish up with the loader and then I can tear it down for the engine overhaul. The rebuilt hydrovac unit came in for the dump truck yesterday. When I unpacked it I found a broken vacuum control valve inlet pipe. The old one was metal and the new broken one is plastic. There was also one mounting bolt hole thread that was stripped. You can see in the picture that I had to tap one hole oversize and use a larger bolt. I decided to try and fix it as I had a hard time locating a rebuilt unit to fit my truck and they only had one unit. It was a big PITA to change out the broken vacuum control housing with my old housing but in the end it was worth the effort. Very light pedal pressure is all that is required to stop the truck now.
If you still have your old unit, you may wish to try to find a rebuilder to set it up as a spare. These machines will last a long time but are not as noted infallible. Good luck on the rock haul, I am awaiting dryer weather to set my new road, and while awaiting am building a new A-frame gantry to swap transmissions in my old Allis.
Glad you got it working! Mine doesn't look nearly as rust free and shiny as yours, but it still worked last time I drove the truck. Just the rest of the system is finished, brake lines rotted out everywhere...
At this time I have replaced the entire brake system including the steel and rubber lines, but it does have excellent brakes now. Miller, I did not have to give up my core but it is rusted junk, only good for its scrap value.
Hydrovacs are getting scarcer by the year as most builders went to hydro-boost units, uses P/S pressure to apply the boost pressure while some simpler are absolutely a mess to work with and consistently leak as fluid ages. At least you got one for yours.
I had to buy five gallon more oil for the loader keepin it going just a little longer Aw man, I just finished up my road rehab job, as you can read about on the dozer forum, and was thinking that now I can pull the drain on the lake for the clean out job. While waiting for the lake to drain and dry up some I plan to give the loader a rest and do the engine overhaul. As they say, sh#? happens. My trouble free septic system backed up twice in the last two weeks. I used the loader to carefully dig down 38 inches to the top of the tank. I also had to surgically remove a cherry tree that I planted twelve years ago. ointhead I think the tree is the root of the problem as those roots ran straight to the tank and swallowed it like something out of a horror movie. I was afraid that one of those roots was running under the inlet or exit pipe and would break the pipe upon the extraction of the tree. Luckily that didn't happen. :notworthy Tomorrow I have a septic tank service coming out to clean out the tank. The tank is way overdue for a cleanout and is still functioning very well after almost 40 years. The trouble is just tree roots blocking at the entrance pipe. I will need the loader to finish up when the problem is solved. My overflows were dug almost 40 years ago using a track loader instead of a backhoe. The trenched are six feet wide. The tree is gone. The tank is marked and ready to dig! :bash I carefully and nervously dug down and did no damage to the tank or pluming, yet!
Odd jobs around the house While I had the ground around the house tore up I decided to do a few more odd jobs with the loader. My drain pipes from the gutter down spouts have been clogged fore some time now. I have just been waiting on the right time to tackle the drain line. The washing machine drain connects to the drain line also. I put down about 18" of fill between the house and the shed. I dug the 80' ditch for the new drain line. In need of a retaining wall. I will use the yellow rock that was dug up while ditching the road to build a retaining wall at the base of this bank.
Continued working around the house. Day 2 around the house. The 4"gutter line/ w the washing machine tied into the line. I will use the ag tractor to back fill. The person in the picture is my son. He is the backwards bowler and travels all over the US and other countries bowling. Take a look, cut and paste the link into your browser. He is a pro and holds the world record bowling backwards. His average at this time is 211. thebackwardsbowler.com You can see in the picture the yellow rock that I used on the outside of the house 40 years ago. the rock on the house is about 4' thick. I really do like the tractor. There will actually be two gutter drain lines running in the same ditch, one from each gutter downspout on this end of the house. I will run the other line tomorrow as dark got me this evening so I will finish backfilling tomorrow.
I've really enjoyed your thread. I read the whole thing this evening. My wife wonders what could be so interesting about heavy equipment (she knew I was Half-a-bubble off when she married me, so nothing should suprise her now). Have you checked out the "Pond cleaning methods" thread on the dozer forum. A couple of pulleys/sheaves, some cable, a silt scoop built from scrap steel (you could probably dream something simple up at night), and that ag tractor could save you from dropping that handsome dozer or your trackloader (with a fresh engine rebuild and paint) off into nasty silt. That thread talks about horrible UC wear in pond silt and i wouldn't want to throw a track down in a muddy hole. You could still load silt with the TL and haul it off with the ford. Not sure about rigging cables in your application, pics of the lake looked like the traditional silt scoop rigging wouldn't work (too confined, too many trees). I'm a new member, hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.
Thanks for the pics, you sure stay busy. Being able to dig a ditch with a track loader never even crossed my mind. Keeping the grey water out of a septic system seems like a good idea to me but the local won't allow it here. I'm gonna have to get crafty.
Do it at night and what they can't see won't hurt 'em .......... In the UK we're not allowed to drain water from gutters into the main sewer system (for houses in urban areas with mains sewerage) However I did some drains from the gutters into the sewer system at my old man's house 30 years ago and they have worked fine ever since.
Nite, rather than go to the effort of building a wall, why not batter it back at a more user-friendly angle of about 45 degrees with the 951 and grass it..? Less effort that way and you get to play on the loader.
hilbillywrench, I am glad that you find the thread interesting. If I drain the lake and pick the proper time, I think that I can just walk the loader to the upper end of the lake and dig my way in running on the solid rock bottom. I will need to catch the silt is just the right, not too runny to be able to load but not too stiff that it will dump without sticking in the truck. The lake bottom is solid rock so after I get started I will keep it clean enough to run the dump truck down in there to load it. OldandWorn, it is easy to dig a ditch with a loader, you just can't did a shallow ditch because of the depth of the teeth. Work at 90 degrees to your ditch. Punch the teeth straight down with the full weight of the machine sitting on them, curl the bucket, and then raise the bucket while barely moving forward. Dump across the ditch and then twist your way down the ditch a bucket width and do it again. To backfill just reach across the ditch to the other side of your ditch and curl the bucket pulling the dirt toward you. I enjoy your postings. I remember your first post, even before I owned heavy equipment. And yes, I do need to stay busy, it keeps me out of my recliner which is recommended for my heart trouble. If I would have known that I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself! Nige, if you can see it in the picture, the bank gets steeper as it goes back. Every year as the bank freezes and thaws it sheds about 1 foot of clay from its face. That is my flag pole and light sitting up there on the top. The cast iron lamp pole is in a hole with five feet of concrete. I really hate to loose the flag pole. I will use huge boulders that I have collected to build the wall and set them with the loader and tractor.
Truck repair day When your diesel starts right up and then quits so that you need to really turnover the engine a lot in order to restart, that is a signal in a Ford 7.3L that the injector seals and/or the fuel rail seals and hoses are bad. I have been waiting for the perfect day to replace the seals and today seemed to be just perfect for that job. It took just under five hours to remove and re seal all eight injectors and replace the fuel rail hoses. The time was well spent as the truck starts and runs just fine now. The injector reseal job is the first work needing to be done under the hood since I bought the truck new more than 25 years ago, other than oil & filter change. The truck is a 1989 model, has about 73,000 miles on it now and it has always been kept inside.
Have you ever been over to oilburners.net? As much info as there is here on heavy equipment and trucks there is the same amount over there dedicated to the 6.9 and 7.3 idi fords. They do have topics for most anything but the idi stuff has the largest following Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
NItelite, do you know how sick you can make a guy from central NY feel seeing a 1989 Ford that looks that good? We have some 2003 F-150s that have no floors left in them and the boxes are falling away.
I just don't understand ! When I bought my D4E last year the right track was loose. I tightened the track, pumping grease into the adjuster with no problem. After about four hours work the track again became slack. Again I pumped the track back to specification. I ordered a new seal kit and have been waiting for a chance to replace the seals. The dozer has been sitting for about a month without any use and the track is still tight. Today I removed the rock guard and expected to find a glob of grease behind the adjuster. The area around the adjuster and spring is as clean as a pin. There is no visible grease anywhere and no sign that the adjuster has ever leaked. I don't mind fixing something that needs fixing but I hate to start removing old bolts that might break in order to replace seal that don't need replacing. Any ideas where the grease went? Before I go farther, I think I need to work the machine with the rock guard removed and see if it happens again.
Is there a chance there is/was air in that cylinder? That could be why there's no grease leakage... Just my thoughts...
Nitelite, there is a cavity inside that spring that all the grease hides. One side of my Cat had the same issue. It would stay tight until I used it. I would not have a doubt that it's the seal. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
If you pumped a few tubes in, chances are you will finally see grease come out Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Nitelite, one main reason for me to not split track was it looked like I would not be able to push my idler far enough forward to allow for the plunger barrel to come out of the spring cavity. I also had to change springs since they were both shattered. As easy as it went to pull the springs, I don't see how spitting track would be any easier, but it looks like you definitely have more room to work with! I'm sure there is someone with more experience on this matter that could pipe in. It looked like a hefty job to roll the track off the idler and I was not sure if I ate my Wheaties that morning... What I did to pull springs: One tensioner was flat shot, so I could not pump up the tracks to compress the spring, so I used a bottle jack to push the idler forward to tighten the tracks as tight as I could. I then added a spacer block (chunk of tubing) between the flange and the spring ( around the chrome part sticking out of the spring). I then had taken the bottle jack and pushed up on bottom of the upper track rail from the track frame until the tracks started to collapse the spring. I then tightened the big nut on the back side of the spring, released the jack, undid the 4 bolts on the flange to the idler rod, 4 bolts on the spring, and I tossed the spring out with the tensioner still in the spring. A jiggle with the prybar, and the tensioner was in my hands. The other tensioner was froze solid, so I skipped the step of pushing on the idler and the spacer on the other side. If you do go this route, make sure the threads on the back of your spring are good!! When I assembled, I put the tensioner assembly back in the spring cartridge, bolted the spring in place, bolted it up to the flange (make sure you pay attention to the 2-piece seal at the flange), cracked the bleeder and pumped until grease came out. I then tightened up the bleeder, pumped it as tight as I could, and used the bottle jack to over-tension the tracks again to release the pressure off the nut. I then backed the nut to the end of the threads as it originally was, finally letting the tension off the spring by releasing the bottle jack. The tracks will still be slightly over-tensioned, so I gently let the bleeder loose once more to relieve the remaining pressure. This is what will have to come out:
No shortcuting this old gal! Well, there is no cutting corners to replace the track adjuster on the D4E. I have the spring loose and the nut at the rear of the spring is holding the tension ok. The problem is that the brackets that holds the spring at the front has two bolts each but they are also welded to the track frame. The welds look to be original from the factory. I considered cutting through the welds with a cutting wheel but decided to go ahead and bust the track and push the idler forward. The track is SALT and has the bolt up master link. If my springs were in need of replacement I would have no choice but to cut the welds in order to remove the spring. You can see that the spring is loaded and the nut is holding the pressure. The bolts are loose in the adjuster flange and the spring retainer bracket. The bracket is welded to the frame rail. Dark got me this evening so tomorrow I will be back at it.
Nite that was welded after it left factory.Im glad to see you going the track way, don't trust those spring retraction bolts and nuts
Nite, I'm with Hatch. The weld on that bracket is deffo not factory. It makes no sense to have something that bolts on to a frame then weld it in place as well. I'm thinking some previous owner maybe had a problem with breaking bolts and so has welded the bracket in place as a "fix". That give me even more reason to advise caution as you proceed with this job, having already found this you never know what else you might find, and track tensioner springs will have your head off in a heartbeat.
Bummer on the welds! Once you get down to the adjuster, you'll probably have it rebuilt in about 5 minutes. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
It wasn't all that bad of a job! I split the track this morning and removed the adjuster cylinder. Just as you said kb9 it was all down hill from there. I found that dark black hole where all of the grease goes. Thanks to you guys I had a good idea of what needed to be done and how to go about it. Nige, the track was no trouble at all to separate. Did it with the rattle gun. I did use the old bolts to put it back together and I did use anti seize compound. I used a good assortment of hand tools, a 3/4 rattle gun, and a few choice words now and then. I also used the ag tractor, the 951C track loader, a come along and a porta a power unit. Now I have to go buy a new grease gun to adjust the tracks to finish the job. So close! Busting the track. I used a come a long and the ag tractor to handle the track ends. Pushing the front idler out. You can see how far the idler is pushed out. The spring is also still compressed. I got it!
A few more pictures. Out with the old and in with the new! Rebuilt adjuster ready to go back in the adjuster cylinder. Pushing the idler back to the adjuster flange. That Harbor Freight porta power sure does come in handy working on big iron! I broke my own rule, "If you want to keep it don't lay it on top of a track"!!! Adjust the track and replace the rock guard and she will be finished.
Thanks for the detailed pics Nitelite. It seems to be a simple task but the pics takes the mystery out of this job. Your undercarriage and the tractor in general looks to be in very good shape. :thumbsup
Surely that grease gun will panel-beat back round again.........buy a new one, Pah - what's the world coming to.......?
As another comment keep an eye on those master link bolts. I like to dress the top of the master shoe with a grinder to make sure it's nice and smooth and that the bolts heads won't snag it, followed by a liberal application of anti-seize on the threads, the shank, and under the head of the bolts. As well as reducing friction and ensuring you get the bolts good and tight it also stops moisture getting in there which helps the next time you have to pull the link apart.
Nitelite, the clamps holding the recoil in should not be welded, they are only fixed in place with those 2 bolts and a dowl pin at the forward end, the dowl pin has probably failed at some point as this will allow the clamp to move position although its still bolted down, you could have ground/cut the weld and sorted this detail back to factory as the dowl is not hard to remove, I have never seen a recoil so wound up on the thread rod before? it only needs 1/8" or so tension to control the spring that is packing about 10 ton force at this point, I dont think I would be keen to get my bits near that spring clamped up like it was, it would have been easier to remove the wishbone probably than pushing about the idler with that red stuff? anyhow you managed to get things done and live to tell the tale, if you had jambed the idler forward, removed the 4 bolts on the cannon cylinder and pushed it back, the grease in the back of the housing will force the piston out to swap the seal, on tidy iron its about 40 mins work to fit a seal. tctractors
it would have been easier to remove the wishbone probably than pushing about the idler with that red stuff? anyhow you managed to get things done and live to tell the tale, if you had jambed the idler forward, removed the 4 bolts on the cannon cylinder and pushed it back, the grease in the back of the housing will force the piston out to swap the seal, on tidy iron its about 40 mins work to fit a seal. tctractors Really Tony ??? It only took me about thirty minutes to swap the seals ha. The rest of the eight hours was spent polishing up the red stuff. :notworthy In truth, I did manage to muddle through the job given a fair amount of time. :notworthy I am leaving on Friday, the 23rd, to take the wife, daughters, and grandkids on a cruise. I will be out of pocket for ten days. When I return the first order of business is to pull that 3304 out of the 951-C. I have had the parts kit for the rebuild long enough, just not the time. How many hours / days would you speculate that I'll be spending on that job, that is if the machine is tidy?
Enjoy your vacation.
A long vacation indeed! I did take a long vacation. I also had to get a new pacemaker/ defibrillator implanted due to battery failure. Then I had to put two new batteries in the 951C in order to use it for a small job for a neighbor. I agreed to dig a hole and burry an old construction dump site. About six hours work with the loader I figured. I got almost finished with the job and the right track jumped off of the front idler. It took me about four hours to get the track back on the idler and start working again. I think the track jumped the front roller when I was turning in two feet of deep mud on a side hill. Then the rain and sleet started coming down. It got very muddy very quick. I started to worry about getting the loader stuck in the deep ruts that the machine was making, daylight was fading and I decided to wait on dryer weather to finish up the job. I only lack about an hour or so. [/ATTACH] [ [ It took some work to get all that mud out!
No doubt, I will do the engine overhaul when I finish up with this job. The old 3304 is burning 1/2 gallon of oil or better per hour when working at full throttle. I have had the overhaul kit for a few months now. I might as well go ahead and remove that first bolt. Just getting started is the worst part of the entire engine overhaul.
Pictures worth a thousand words. Pictures of the job that I am waiting to dry up to be able to finish. In the first picture I am digging debris from the ground and off the bank ahead of the loader bucket and then backing back down the road and filling in the hole that can be seen just to the left of the bucket. In the next two pictures things are going great, just scooping, backing up and filling the hole to the left in the picture. In the last two pictures you can see the track marks in the mud that were left when I attempted to angle climb the bank ahead of me, just enough to uncurl the bucket at full reach to pull the debris down the bank to be scooped up. That little bit of a side hill is where I lost my right track off of the front idler. Chalk one up to the seat monkey paying the stupid tax! Today I took the Ag tractor/w front end loader over there and pushed all of the remaining debris down that bank to the bottom for easy scooping up with the 951 when it dries up. All of the debris came from an old house that burned twenty years ago and was later pushed off of that bank and into the hollow below. Burying and cleaning up the site is just something to do to earn an extra few bucks when nothing else is going on.
Nice to see all is well after your long vacation. So what's next for the 951? Engine overhaul?
What a differenca a day makes! Yep Lawless, I need to stop putting it off and overhaul the engine in the old gal. I think that I used more $ in engine oil than I used in $ of diesel fuel. I did finish the job using the D4E. It really was not dry enough to cover the dump site but the D4 floats a little better than the loader. I just couldn't slick it up as well as I would like to. It is good enough that in dryer weather I can go back and grade it with the ag tractor and box blade. I finished up and cleaned out the UC Then we got an inch of ice and then an inch of snow. More bad weather and zero degrees on the way. The overhaul is on hold again!
Love seeing the pics nitelite. 0 degrees, no thank you! Too cold for me! I'll be following the thread and can't wait to see more posts and pics!
Its all part of the job! Its all part of the job!
I have a 'sharp shooter' shovel I keep on the tractor just for those catch up moments when I clean off the truck assemblies and clear the rails. PITA but necessary.
This is the tool you need for digging tracks out.. http://www.shopjfi.com/premium-drain-track-spade-d-handle.html
That is what is called a sharp shooter in Missouri. Thanks Nige, just what I have behind my operator seat.
DMiller and Nige, thanks for the comments. It really was a pita and I was trying to beat the 0 degree weather that was fast approaching. I got the uc on the loader cleaned up but I didn't quite make it in time on the dozer. I had to clean the uc on the dozer with the packed mud half frozen and that was really a lot of fun. I was using a long handled heavy duty 4" scraper. The pictured shovel that I use is about the same thing as your Missouri sharp shooter Miller. Mine has a short wood handle and the one in Nidge's link looks like it has a fiber glass handle. I don't like it when the dirt and mud pack in so tight as to stop the top roller from turning. It creates flat spots. When I bought the loader I had to replace the top rollers because of flat spots. I think I'll take a hint from Miller and carry the short handled shovel behind the seat.
boy it sure has been cold and alot of snow here in e. tn. clost to the worst i,ve ever seen it. we set records here in kingsport.
I don't know about you guys but I have been taking advantage of the price drop and stocking up on off road diesel fuel. I filled my two ag tractors, the loader and the dozer. I sprung a leak in my 105 gallon pickup transfer tank and had to pump the 85 gallons that it contained at the time into 55 gallon into drums. I welded up the seam in the transfer tank and had it refilled. I paid 2.32 per gallon verses $4.00 at its peak in late 2014. If I had the capacity I would buy more. The price for diesel will surely go back up in the spring and my supply won't last long. Welding on that transfer tank was a new experience and very tedious for me. With my pacemaker/defibulator, I can't use my stick welder any more and I am not all that comfortable using the mig. I drained the tank and flushed it out with water for about an hour. Next I drained the tank and ran a 2" hose from my diesel tractor exhaust into the tank to make it inert. I had no problems making the weld using my oxy setup. I used the grandkids Playdough to build a dam around the welded spot and filled the dam with about 10 oz. of soapy water, put about five lbs. air pressure in the tank. I had to re heat and fill pin holes twice. All is well with the tank now.
dont be afraid of the mig welder, once you learn to use it you,ll not use a stick welder anymore except for thick metal. i,ve havent fired my stick welder up in 10 yrs. if you was closer i,d give you a bunch of clean 55 gallon steel drums. i bought engine oil in them for my semi trucks. bob
I am just Northwest of Nashville about thirty miles and for the first time ever I saw my thermometer read -6 degrees. BCOWANWHEELS, I have been watching your post. I hope you can find a good loader at an affordable price that is reasonably close to your location. For an older machine that is going to require some work I would recommend staying in the Cat line. You can find reasonably priced older Cats and aftermarket parts are available and at great prices. Off Road Equipment, not too far from you, in Knoxville is where I buy all of my Cat parts and you just can't beat their prices and mechanical knowledge support. Good luck!
what brand is your O/H parts ? I check my mahale/clevite/victor rentz supplier and for the 941 in frame it was 975.00 plus shipping. no taxes
I don't remember for sure the brand of the overhaul kit but it said PCT on the box. It is not an in frame kit but rather a complete 3304 engine overhaul kit. All bearings, gaskets, seals pistons and liners are included. The price from Off Road was $571.00 including freight to my door. No tax as I have an ag tax#. Off Road handles some genuine Cat parts. I have bought a lot of Cat filters from them. I also bought 312 UC track pad bolts and 312 nuts from them that had the Cat logo stamped on each bolt and nut. 30 cents per bolt and nut. Cat was $1.58 each pc. I am in the market for new sprocket rings and SALT chains for the machine. I already have a quote from Off Road for the uc parts. I took a tip from Nige that you can read about earlier in this thread. I called Thompson machinery today and asked them to come out to measure and price the uc. They will send their uc guy out this coming week. I will keep this thread posted. I just replaced two 4DHD batteries on the machine two weeks ago. If you would like a quote to compare with yours, call Off Road Equipment and ask for Jeff. If you need instructions on whatever it is that you need to repair just ask, his vast knowledge on old Cats is just awesome. I have no gain in this but when we find a good service at decent prices spreading the word can benefit many. As I said before, good luck! Thanks for the uc tip Nige.
No problem. TBH I would always recommend having someone measure the wear on a machine undercarriage before going out for quotation for replacement parts. You don't have to buy the parts from the organization who did the measuring but always get a quotation from them for comparison purposes.
Nitelite, Great thread, I've really enjoyed reading your posts and seeing the pictures. I bought a 1980 951c a few months ago at auction for $5000. The machine is really clean and runs and functions perfect. Probably the best $5k I've spent in a long time. The machine sat for a couple months in freezing temperatures here in Pittsburgh and i got around to moving it today and it fired right up. Looking forward to the posts about the overhaul, hope it goes well.
Wow, 5000.00, that is about half of what I had to pay. What are you going to use it for? You got pictures? Cat came out yesterday to measure my uc. I have not gotten the results yet but I'll post them here when I get them.
I own a construction company and we have a piece of property that we take and sell clean fill off of. I'm using it mainly to load tri axles with topsoil and shale. Only complaint is that I have to build a ramp to get the bucket high enough to reach over the tri axles.
Here is the UC estimate from Thompson Machinery QUOTE=Nige;548306]No problem. TBH I would always recommend having someone measure the wear on a machine undercarriage before going out for quotation for replacement parts. You don't have to buy the parts from the organization who did the measuring but always get a quotation from them for comparison purposes.[/QUOTE] For what its worth! It is hard to read but I think it is readable. [
Looks like $8150 not to include bottom or top rollers for SALT rail and Clean and Inspect the shoes and frames. Does not sound bad to me labor and parts. Big shock would be if more than a few bottom rollers required repair or replace and bolting as a bundle to change out.
Ouch! $3500 for parts and almost $5000 for labor? Think I'd pass on that.
Now is as good as any time! I am thinking that I'll buy the parts needed to put the UC back in good shape and do the labor myself. I finally got started with the engine overhaul today. I got the hood off and the front skid plate. I can't work fast but then there is no hurry either. I am at the point of needing to decide whether to do the "in frame" or pull the engine. Considering all that I know about the engine, I am leaning toward the "in frame". She starts easily, runs good, runs strong, just burns a lot of oil but has no leaks. I think I'll pull the head and have a look see. I'll then pull the pan and see what the crank and bearings look like and proceed from there depending on what I find. The new stuffings s Open wide! Off with the sheet metal with the help of the ag tractor Past the point of no return now Time to open it up
To get the Sump off you need to unbolt the engine so you might as well whip off the front nose group and pull the engine out, its a shame you left the front bucket on, but at least you will struggle to forget where it is as it creeps forward, the fuel tap is a good thing to turn off before you get mess every place, if you leave the engine in frame it needs to be lifted about an 1", the angle supports you have are cut to long I feel as you could not rotate them under the links? anyhow best of luck and watch your head as the bucket spins forward it might be worth chaining it back. tctractors
tc, Last night, I went back and re read the post from you earlier on in this thread. I did see where you recommend dropping the bucket before starting the overhaul. At this point I can still start the engine and raise the lift arms, remove my support legs, lower the bucket and remove it. As you noticed, I also need to trim my loader arm supports so they will pivot. Just as you said, it is an eerie feeling with the weight of the bucket looming overhead. Another lesson learned while removing the hood, and you also called that one too. With the arms up, I can't get in close enough with the ag tractor to get a straight and square lift so as to pluck the engine from the frame. The arms will need to be lowered when the time comes to actually hoist the engine. Backing up to correct those oversights right now, while I still can, will be time well spent. I will re read all of your instructions and follow your recipe to the letter from here on. It seems that I have wasted some amount of time and effort spinning my wheels when there are no shortcuts. I will follow your advice and remove the head, in frame, before I pull the engine. Thanks for setting me straight once again.
MAKE sure you check the front and rear main seals for seeps. it would be a shame to inframe it and find out later you need seals. there probably the ones that came from the factory in it.
Nitelite, its up to you but the bucket can be off putting hanging over your head so I always strip them from the loader frame, the pukker CAT frame support is stored below the fuel tank on the inside by the taps from new, the hood is a right pig to struggle with to lift out with the arms up and no Fork Lift for aid, you can remove the front nose group and the engine without any Fork Truck or owt' just with the aid of 2 pull lifts and a bar across the raised and locked loader frame arms as I have done this a few times, the head can stay on it just makes it lighter to lift without it, the engine is a good chunk of weight for a small tractor to handle, if you remove the head use good lift points on the block surface or lift from another location, I have fancy RUD swivel lift eyes that I can bolt firmly onto the block face I don't use the CAT supplied lift eyes on the engine if the head is removed, you will also need to drain the Hydo Tank if you pull the engine, the 2 pump bolts are tough going if the engine is gunged up with crap. tctractors
When I get to tearing old Fat Allis down for the radiator and bull nose replacement while also working to strip the rails and right support truck off I will be un-pinning the shovel and constructing loader frame support stops, having the arms up and out of the way while safely supported is of utmost importance to get my job to an easier condition of fight. My radiator is around 30% externally choked with dirt and oil mixture that will not pressure wash away where I have the unit from the donor to go to a shop for check out and full cleanup, the bullnose from the donor parts tractor is going on this one and will support the better design ROPS/sweeps structure from the donor. Rails need to be swapped and the right final is going to hell with the sprocket loose on the splines and the seal constantly weeping so again the donor comes into play for spare parts. Will be my next winter's project to be followed with replacement hydraulic lines on the shovel cylinders and a full painting.
Ok, my false start has been sorted and I am committed to pulling the engine. My kit is for the complete engine overhaul, might as well take the time, do it right and use it all.
Nige, As I posted earlier, I took your advice and had the free uc CTS measurement by my PSSR who works for Thompson Machinery. More than $8100.00 parts and labor for sprocket rims and new SALT chains using my pads and hardware plus transport of the machine to have them do the work, plus extra for broken bolts. I called Thompson Cat today to see if the parts prices were still good if I just bought the parts and did the labor myself. The parts prices are still good and they actually under bid Off Road Equipment by $800.00. If the engine looks good inside and checks out all right after the overhaul, I will place the order for the chains and sprocket rims. I can pick up the parts 30 miles from my home, no freight charges or sales tax to be added. I think that I just might owe you one of your favorite brew sir.
Tony, My two lift supports are actually two pcs of angle iron welded together to make a "C" channel. They are heavy duty for sure and I am trusting my life to them. The original support that came with the machine was long gone when I got it. Before installing the supports I wrapped the chrome rods with carpet to protect them from dings. Off with the radiator and hard nose tomorrow.
The rad and hard nose will lift off all together, the transmission cooler hoses will be hard work to undo and get free of the cooler, I cut them free and fit new rubber pipe on rebuild, I have seen people lift the complete nose group via the 2 little lift boss things on the rad top, but it freaks me some as it does not look upto this load, so I always attach my own lift lugs to the sides and also use the front bars with a sling threaded through them, on your cylinder props just single bits of good angle over the top of each rod would easily cope with the task, the higher the lift arms are the better things go, you should have the front off and the engine out in around 4 hours without any bad bolt drama, use cable ties to keep the wiring etc out of your way also remove the throttle rod off the pump and off the cross shaft, the mounting bolts on the engine are simple to tackle also you will find it best to remove the 4 rubber drive couplers out from the drive as it makes it easier to set the engine free. dont forget to turn off the fuel and do all your draining down (water Hydo) and place a catch can under the oil cooler pipes. tctractors
What is the best place from which to most completely drain the hydraulic oil and transmission oil before removal of the radiator and engine? Do I need to drain the entire amount of hydraulic oil and the entire transmission? A short time ago I changed the hydraulic oil and filters. I will change the transmission filter while the engine is out but the existing oil is clean. Also, do I need to remove the drive couplers or just remove the bolts from one side?
you,ll be glad you decided to out of frame it once its done. like my dad always said anything worth doing is worth doing right.
The tran's oil stays in all you get is the drains from the cooler rad, all the oil out from the hydraulic tank the drainer port is on the bottom, I pump the oil out from the filler neck myself just catching the last dregs from the drain port, plus a catch pot on the floor under the pump for the remnants out of the oil lines, I have already said its best to totally remove the drive couplers as it will aid the lift out, once the engine is out you can sort the tran's filter etc easy stood in the hollow frame, other people might come up with some good ideas to help you sort this task some as I have not done a 951C engine out for nearly a year, when you do start on the engine I will recommend that you don't strip any of the timing gears until you mark with a grinder the fuel pump drive gear, unless you are going to remove the injector pump so a few snaps would be handy at this point, the Lanchester style balance shafts cannot be mixed up as the teeth on the gears are port and starboard facing also letter indexed, hope this helps some. tctractors
Yes, and I know how shortcuts usually end up in the long run. Tony, If I am careful in lining up all of the timing gears and marking the fuel pump drive gear should I expect to have no trouble with pump timing or need the timing plates when the overhaul is completed? I expected to hoist the radiator & hard nose today but I spent quite a bit of the day doing some welding for a neighbor. Provided there is no rain tomorrow, I will pluck it out and maybe the engine too. Once I get the engine out of the frame I will mount it on an engine stand and will then be working inside the shop.
Nitelite, I would forget the stand as you will have the engine stripped to now't in a few hours, the flywheel has a chisel mark on it to match a chisel mark on the crank, look for this and Tippex mark it for ease on rebuild, the front pulley will need pulling off via bolt holes on the front face only, the belt grove will crack off if you hit it with a Feather so be aware, on the front gears if you turn the engine over to line up the marks all the gears have , you will see the fuel pump gear with its taper fixing has none, so if you don't need to remove this gear grind an index mark as needed on the 2 (Two) gears unless you like work for nothing, use timber baulks to support the engine at the head removal stage then tip it on to its back case to set about the sump and front bit, study the con rods looking at the right hand part of B/end you will see an "I" this faces the front (Fan) the pistons need fitting on the rods in a set index. tctractors p.s. on page 3 - 4 and 8 of my rubbish in Shop Talk is a little engine from a 951 C getting its innards sorting, also showing the crib up task.
Looking good so far, I will end up with mine in a barn after I get the machine pressure washed, barn height is 12'6" so plenty of room to raise the arms with no shovel and as you have done so would I with the cylinder blocks, the carpet is a great idea as I have dinked a few cylinder rams having to polish the spot out to save the packing seals.
I think I can! I managed to remove the hard nose and radiator group before a thunder storm and rain set in. I got wet as the rain just poured down as I lifted the hard nose. I headed for cover but didn't make it before getting drenched. Looks like the hardest job left before engine removal will be removing the rubber drive connectors .
Nitelight, you need to lift all your bits in a level manner so some sling moving about would be handy, the starter motor and generator need removing next but whip off the fan first, the drive reels are simple to remove with 3/4" ** spanner and a bar to jamb things. tctractors
I got exactly one gallon of transmission oil in the drain pan when I cut the cooler hoses to the oil cooler just as you recommended tony. Not wise to reuse those old hoses anyway. I agree, the starter and alternator are heavy and my ag tractor will appreciate the lightened load. If the weather is good and no more downpours tomorrow, I think I will go ahead and remove the head, exhaust manifold and the fan. First things first, I will pressure wash the engine one last time and then I still have to drain the hydraulics and the engine oil. The o rings on the pre chambers must really be rotten. When I got the hood off yesterday I pressure washed the head. What used to be an antifreeze seep suddenly became a antifreeze gusher. It lost two gallons of antifreeze before I noticed and could get a pan under it. Hopefully, I will have the engine in the shop tomorrow where it can be torn down no matter the weather. I hope it looks good inside as far as the head and crank shaft go. I have no reason to suspect crank problems. I just might have to dab a bit of color on the engine and frame before it goes back in.
just a daft thought,,,can the fan be fitted to it after the hardnose goes back on? or does it need to be tied into the rad prior to refit? wouldn't want to have to take the nose cone back off to fit the fan!
here you can see an engine ready for going back in.T.C has pull lifts at hand to adjust the level back to front and side to side BEFORE he even attempts to sling it in.It went in and lined up so well that I could get the bolts in simple enough.
the cowboy with the cowboy hat on is......er...,well, me! TC is well out the way,but somebody has to make sure that lump doesn't float into the radiator.TC was looking at the otherside and directing the crane operator.
It's worth mentioning that he had requested me to remove the nosecone before removing the engine,but the JCB 3C probably wasn't man enough for the job that I have in the yard.The crane is hired in.
Nicky, I'll make sure about the fan fit. I think there is room to put the fan back in place in reverse order. I might need to put more thought into my lifting point and incorporate a sling of some sort. Thanks for your thoughts. The sun is shining and I am burning daylight!
Nitelite, don't let Nicky put the fears on you about the fan, your fan blades look knackered and bent so you might need to beat them about on a track pad, also the fan is best bolted onto the hub before you stuff home the nose cone, it can be stuffed in against the core also but that is some time off at the speed you spin spanners, the 3304 cranks often throw the dummy out on the first main bearing, also the Lanchester shafts need to be in top nick, the bushings for these shafts are easy to remove and replace also the idler gear shaft and bushing is common to find flogged out, the oil pump will need replacing including the idler gear bush that mounts the pump. tctractors,
BOY 2" slings and your loving on that engine like your woman. i,d have bigger and some safety built in and still not get that close. just me.
Would need to check the rating tags on the slings but I'm thinking each sling should be good for something in the neighborhood of 2400lb. The weight of a 3304 per Cat manual for the 951 is 2,000 lbs. so I would think there is a bit of safety margin there.
Honestly, I was once pretty good at spinning spanners, made a good living at it too, I raised my kids fed the family and paid the bills. As luck may have its way whenever it chooses and we begin to take the good life for granted, sh@t happens. I lost the use of my right hand, (claw hand), and lost the use of my right foot due to handling and testing agent orange during my military service. Not complaining at all, I made it home, there were those of us who didn't. When I spin spanners now days I feel sort of like a one legged man in an aras kicking contest. It just takes me a while longer than it once did but I am still in the contest. The fan is perfect but I will need a new double alternator pulley. Mine is so worn that it is like a razor on the edges.
Some more progress Wanted to get the engine out today, it just wasn't in the cards and dark:30 got me. I just lack disconnecting the hydro pump lines and catching the dribble. I have already drained the tank. every thing else is disconnected and ready to go. None of the exhaust manifold bolts broke, I have been spraying PB Blaster on them for a week.
Kshansen, you are right on. My sling is rated @ 2400 lbs. I have two of them but I have misplaced one of them. I am still looking for it. 2000 lbs. is also right for the engine weight, but it is getting lighter all the time. I have a sling that is rated at 4000 lbs. I think I'll use it if I don't find the other. Have a great day:cool2
Nitelite, make no mistake I think you are doing a "Blinder" on the strip out, I cannot understand you listening to anything I print as I just take things to bits for a look see, I have plastic blanking plugs to go on the fuel pump elements to save drama, no doubt the Hydraulic pump made you swear some as they are always caked in crud with bolts that are tough going, you must agree with the hard nose off its not bad to get busy on the engine. The slings used on the D8 engine are 3 ton (3000kg) items, I am very fussy on lifting gear and try to always use my own stuff that I set to lift with, I use endless slings near always as they can be shortend easily plus very cheap to buy new, all my lifting gear is load rated with stuff going up to 50 ton (50'0000kg) so I have the kit to tackle a good sized 951 engine. tctractors p.s. your Fan looks a little knackered or bent in the snap.
I'll clean it up and give it a closer look. The tips of all of the fan blades are all set with the same shape, they don't appear to have been modified and they are good and smooth on all edges. The cup on the ends looks to be factory. I will post a few more snaps with some different angle views. I don't see other 951-C fans so as to compare and my D4-E has a much different fan installed. I think I will mount the fan in a fixture and give it a spin to see if it runs true.
Nitelite, the blades on the fan are all bent the same amount, they come from CAT straight without the bend on the tip section, thats the bit with the yellow paint visible instead of the dirt, the blades are curved left to right but are true up and down if you understand. I am not very good at this??? tctractors
That being the case, I imagine that I will be spending some amount of time with the BFH against anvil or the track shoe. The tips could have been purposely cupped by the po trying to scoop more air to contend with a overheating problem. There is no problem with overheating now but the machine was fitted with a new water pump, water regulator and new regulator housing, some hoses and a new gage. I will be keen on inspection of the oil cooler as you suggested. Just for laughs, things can go bad quickly when operating the D4-E direct drive tractor with only a left hand and left foot. The situation causes me to talk to myself a lot and do some swearing at the levers and pedals. Mastered all but the decell pedal. Thanks for all of the tips and knowledge.
Nitelite, You have my admiration if you can run that D4-E:notworthy:salute I have more or less full use of all my limbs and I can get in trouble just moving some equipment. Don't have too much trouble "Taking Them To Bits" as TC says and usually manage to get them back together so they work again, but as far as being an operator, I'll keep my day job! Well at least till the 23 of the month! Then the "Honey Do List" comes out I'm sure!
"Cardiologist said," you an't out there operating that loader again are you"? Nope. Between Dr. appointments and Easter family time, working time and progress on the engine overhaul has been simmering on the back burner. I only had one bolt break during the removal and it is where the breather pipe attaches to the block.:bash My engine plucker. I hooked to the engine with two 4000 lb. come alongs for engine level swing control. The loader looks like she is not feeling too well at the moment. Looked like a good place in the shop to sit her down. makes me wonder if I'll ever hear the old gal clatter again. Ready to pull her down to bits!
While backing up with the weight of the engine on the ag tractor I forgot about the radiator and hard nose sitting behind me and backed into it. It fell over and hit flat on the pavement. It dislodged a lot of dirt and muck but I don't see any damage. I will pressure test it before it goes back in the tractor for sure.
Don't you just hate it when something like that happens and you are working alone? No one to yell at but yourself! Good idea to test it but probably will be just fine I'm sure it has been knocked around more than that in it's life!
Got a little more done today. I am doing the parts clean up work as I go along. lifting the head Top end and pistons look good, very little cylinder wear. Only about fifteen passages blocked, looks like o ring material from previous water pump. Head and pre chambers look good, I'll check valve guides next. The bottom end tears down tomorrow.
Keep posting pictures. It is a treat for all us who are fans of this kind of stuff. There's nothing better on a Friday, at work, and reading and seeing a complete engine removal. thanks for the post, now get back to work!
Nitelite, Too bad you are so far away I'd love to hang out with you and spin wrenches on that 3304, never worked on one but did many 3306's. One of my favorite engines to work on along with the screaming Jimmies! Nothing there that is not needed to make them run. None of those troublesome sensors, ECM's, realys and such. Just make sure when you put the fuel pump back on you have it on #1, I know a 3306 will run if 180º out, I'll blame that on Norm, but it was probably me who made that mistake. Runs but sounds like crap!
Always liked the Cat nozzle cup designs, replaceable, all the other diesels had to send to a head shop for copper up installs and would only tolerate a few nozzle/injector replace jobs before started leaking. Did kinda suck getting the correct spline socket for the older engines.
Todays progress, slow going! Miller, I was afraid that I might run into a seized pre chamber or glow plug, but I didn't, Removal went pretty smooth. Also looks good where the pre cup seals to the head. I have yet to remove the valves and check the guides. kshansen, I have her locked down on #1, lifters down on #1 , pin in flywheel and all timing marks lined up. I wish you were closer too, some company now and then and someone to check behind my work would be good. Those who have never made a mistake don't do too much. Bryant, posting pictures is the easy part. If I sit down it is hard to get going again and, " get back to work ". I am glad you are enjoying this thread. If my overhaul is a success the track frames will come off next. There are some broken bolts to contend with where the track frames mount to the machine. It will get new SALT chains and new sprocket rims welded on. I want to make a keeper out of the old girl. A few bits and pieces, I wanted to get the oil pan off and pistons out today but it just did not happen. Left balancer marks Injector pump gear, marked with a grinder and red paint. Did I mention that I don't see too good either Front engine mount. I think it might need a new bushing installed, how loose is too loose Tony? Crank shaft timing marks
I am stuck! Tony, or anyone else who might how, I need to proceed from here to get the flywheel cover and flywheel off? My manual goes silent on the procedure. It just says, "remove flywheel cover". I have removed all of the bolts from the flywheel cover and all of the bolts on the flange that the drive couplers bolt to. Is there something that is pressed on so as to need a puller? I don't see anything to bang on with a BFH. What am I not seeing here? I need to get to the rear main oil seal in order to replace it. HELP!!! kshansen, does it look like the same setup as the 3306? If so you might know. The pictures were taken at a slight angle looking down, makes things look crooked but everything is straight.
Nitelite, a good little mess of bits you have going on, that stuff on the gear drive marks is a very nice shade of red but I did tell you that you need to mark the fuel pump gear set with a grind wheel, as that red stuff will possibly come off and you will end up in trouble, the 2 Lanchester shafts you cannot get wrong as the gear cut angle changes, the idler gear bushings and shafts are near always worn out so look at these, the back case and flywheel is easy to strip as its just bolts but before you remove the flywheel off the crank look for the chisel line from the crank to the flywheel, with your nice shade of red paint touch in this mark so it will help on the rebuild, the valve guides in the head I always press in new, I do have the tooling for this but it can be done with a bolt dropped down the guide with the corners ground off the hex, the valve springs I also always change as the hight of them often differs, the valves if slightly worn I change for new as the customer wants a rebuilt engine not a repair, the valve seats I have re-cut with any damaged ones I fit new inserts, don't forget to study the con rods and the way they are fitted to the pistons, it might be best to leave them connected (or 1) to help with the build up??? tctractors
I did follow your advice and put marks in the pump gears with the grinder and then put the red paint over the grind marks to make them easy to see. I have all of the bolts out and can't get the rear flange to budge and can't get the flywheel cover off over the flange. The flywheel cover is loose but it looks like the flange that holds the drive pucks must come off first. Do I need to pry on it pretty hard. I am afraid of knackering something. Tomorrow I will take a fresh look to see what I might have missed. Thanks for the reply!
Nitelite, the 3306's in the 966C are different in the way they couple to the transmission, direct drive with spline coupler and the fly wheel runs in converter oil. Your's appears to be coupled with four large rubber parts. You have the twelve bolts out of the large plate that covers the flywheel so it should come off. It does appear that there are two dowels at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock so it may come off a little tight. Does not look like Cat was nice enough to have a pair of pusher bolt holes. Best idea I have would be to tap something thin in the seam between the plate and the flywheel housing. Like an old knife or a stiff putty knife ground to a sharp edge. A couple good taps around the area near the bolt holes might help too! If you get a little opening on one side go to the opposite side and work there. The straighter it comes of the better. Would not hurt to soak the joint with some penetrating oil to and let it sit while you do something else.
I had screwdrivers in the seam and had it working last night but I was not sure that the cover would come off over the flange that the rubber disc bolt to. I am going out to try it again, I got my belly full and I got my mind right! thanks
The drive hub needs to come off first then the pinned cover, if all the bolts are out of the hub and its stuck, un-stick it with a few good whacks, when you get to undo the flywheel use a lump of something poked into the starter ring gear, do not use the TDC pin location. tctractors
I understand, I'll try the slide hammer first and go bigger if that don't work, Thanks for the reply tc. Right now something else has captured my attention.
Wow what to try next! That thing is really stuck! Notice, there are three screwdrivers poked in the crack between the block and flywheel cover. That drive hub indeed has to come off first, just as tc mentioned. Prying, it is not stuck where it is pinned. . Prying on the drive hub with the leverage of two six foot pry bars won't budge it. I pried on the hub with one bar while I had my son prying on the other. The two pry bars that were used. That much leverage produces a lot of pressure on that hub! When I look through the hole in the flange am I looking at the end of the crankshaft? It kooks like there is a dimple in it. I am thinking, at this point, that I might need to make a strong puller that will bolt to the drive hub with a push bolt to push against the end of the crank shaft, much like the puller used removing pulley off of the front of the crank shaft Any more suggestions would be welcome.
Cute kid, need to get him trained on pulling wrenches so he can help rebuild the 951!
I'm having trouble seeing in your photos, do you have the bolts in the following picture that I have marked red? If they are out have you tried soaking through the center hole with penetrating oil and giving it a few taps where the large rubber discs were bolted? Does not look like there is much of a shoulder to be holding the coupler to the fly wheel. Might just need some penetrant and a few taps to free it up. The puller idea should work if noting else.
kshansen, you posted a better picture than I have in my manual and yes the red bolts have been removed. I agree, there looks to be not much that the hub could cling to, but the leverage of those two pry bars have failed to move it. We did manage to push the 2000 lb engine around on the floor with the prying but the hub is still solid, with not even a wiggle. I soaked it good through the center hole with PB Blaster. Tomorrow I am sure I will need to fab up some type of puller. When I look through the center hole in the hub .I think that I am looking at the end of the crankshaft. If so, that is what my puller needs to push against. Does anyone have a picture of just the hub, looking into the end of it? It is a 3304, 86J-2188 power shift track loader. I even tried smacking the hub on the face with a BFH, just to loosen it up, no go so far. Some how, I need to get at it to replace the rear oil seal. I am thinking a large puller, something on the same order as this one. The center screw would have to be pretty long in order to contact the end of the crank shaft to push against. Hopefully, the hub will just fall off in the morning considering all of the PB Blaster soaking, yea,right! :Banghead
I might be tempter to apply a bit of heat around the area where the red bolts are, not enough to turn things red but the heating then cooling might be what's need to pull the PB Blaster in to the seam. Just be careful using heat near the PB Blaster don't want to start a fire. There wasn't a sign of Lock-Tite on the red bolts was there? If the guy who installed it last used that it could make getting things apart tough. The critical temperature for Lock-Tite is around 350º F gets very weak at that temp.
What does SALT Chains mean?
Sealed And Lubricated Tracks - SALT undercarriage components help you get the most out of one of the biggest investments you make in your track-type machines - undercarriage maintenance and replacement. Cat Enhanced SALT undercarriage components reduce operating costs by increasing link and roller wear life. These high quality, field tested components set new limits for endurance and system life. Used with Cat shoes and sprockets, these components provide optimum system wear balance and the lowest cost per hour.
Oh thanks that makes sense.
Yea, the first time I read that term I thought they were either for working underground in a Salt Mine or winter track for snowy roads!
Me too.
The hub needs hitting straight down on with a large copper hammer, 3 big shots around the outer edge should set it flying, the cover plate can then be removed by poking a bar through the starter hole and whacking the end with a "little big hammer" tctractors
Unstuck! My hammer hefting is sorta limited tc. but I can still do the little big thing! I used some good old yankee ingenuity and put together a puller of sorts. The hardest part of putting the bits of the puller together was getting the trailer hitch ball off of the truck. I needed the hitch ball to extend the length of the center screw enough to push against the flywheel. Once I got the puller bolted to the drive hub and the center screw pushing against the flywheel I flogged the hell out of it, turning it with a BFH shown in the picture. It turned loose with a big bang and the hub with puller traveled five feet before landing on the concrete floor. No more drama! kshansen, That picture that you posted and the idea of penetration overnight helped as much as anything, thanks. Part of an old brake drum puller, the block from my shop press and a trailer hitch ball. The stubborn drive hub that caused me so much pain! The flywheel. lifting to get at the oil pan bolts. Next out, pistons, rods, mains, and liners.
More pictures Removing the oil pan Those come alongs are rated at 4000 lbs. each. Max tractor lift capacity 3300 lbs. Bits and pieces strewn Pre chambers and push rods in the order of removal.
Amazing how strong a little rust can be! Glad you got it apart Was that engine that nice and clean when you dropped the pan? You need to get an old Detroit to play with!
I have not worked on diesel engines before but I did work on gas automotive engines for many years. That Cat 3304 is the cleanest engine inside that I have ever seen. No carbon on the pistons at all, just a little soot. The only thing inside the oil pan was one chip of limestone rock and it probably fell in there when I pulled the dipstick tube.As for the outside, I pressure washed it before I started the overhaul. As I remove all of the parts I am cleaning them up as I go. I might even paint the engine and engine compartment before I install the engine. I am using Engine Bright spray degreaser and following up with a pressure wash after soaking. Next I am spraying with purple detergent/degreaser that Walmart carries and then a final pressure washing. It is doing a fair job. When I get the engine back together I will make it water tight and use the degreaser one more time to prep for painting. I still didn't get the pistons out today, just ran out of time. I did take one rod cap off and I will need to grind the ridge out of the top of the liner with a dye grinder and a carbide bit as I don't have a ridge reamer for the task. I have one broken bolt to drill out. It is one of three that fastens the oil filler tube to the side of the engine. It broke off three threads below flush so I can't weld a washer and nut on to it. No big deal, I am thinking a drill and ease out. Pistons and liners out tomorrow and measure the crank journals. I hope it goes un eventful.
Really been enjoying this thread Nitelite! You make it look easy. Brings back some pleasant and some not so pleasant memories. When I read about you finding a chip of limestone rock in your oil pan I remembered finding the same thing when we took the pan off the 466. I never mentioned it in my other thread, but I was always puzzled on how it got there. We used Proforce degreaser from Sam's club. It's stout stuff and good for pre-paint. But it'll take the shine off new paint. We're going to Simple Green degreaser for anything where we care about the paint finish. It'll all be worth it when you get it back in the dirt. You're going to have a top-notch machine.
Boone, did the Proforce degreaser take off all of the oil residue? I don't care about disturbing the old paint. I just need the new paint to stick. What I enjoyed most about your thread was the fact that you had the whole family involved in the rebuild. That is priceless. I still keep up with the thread. When I finish with the 951 I can see me now, the wind in my face and the dirt rolling ahead of the bucket. Actually it will be the tracks spinning in the mud and the bucket full of silt from the lake cleanout. I hope that old 3304 will be singing a tune as the black smoke rolls from the stack! Thanks for the encouragement.
Yes, it did good. We had probably gone over degreasing and pressure wash twice before paint. We've had no issues with paint peel. Wrenching on this big iron can sometimes test a families love. LOL! The pleasant memories were definitely from the working together part. We're fortunate to get along while working. I'm like kshansen, I'd love to drop by your shop and help out. You remind me a lot of my dad with all the wood working tools I see in your shop. And your ability to improvise when it seems you hit a roadblock. This forum has been great for tips and tricks on this type of stuff. Look forward to seeing some smoke soon!
Where there is a will there is always a way Boone. Still tearing down, I got the pistons out today. I got the engine turned over, blocked up, and ready to pull the liners and crank shaft tomorrow. This heavy work is really hard on an old man working by himself! Going gets slow. Chainsaw work today, cutting up some cross ties for blocking and then some tedious work turning the engine over and positioning it on the blocking without destroying something in the process. I'll need to cut up some more of the ties to use when I am ready to pull the track frames, weld on new sprocket rims, and replace the track chains. I will have the engine torn to the smallest bits, all of the clean up work done and ready to start putting things back together by Wednesday evening, April 15. The assembly will be postponed for a week as I am leaving for Washington DC early Thursday morning the 16th. I am going on a bus trip with fifty other disabled veterans to see the war monuments. I visited the Vietnam wall about twenty years ago, it was too fresh in my mind and too painful to appreciate at the time. Hopefully in the week that I am gone I won't forget where all of those parts fit on the engine! You have convinced me, if you have had no problems with paint peeling considering your test of time, I need to go to Sams and pick some Proforce Degreaser. What brand paint did you use and did you use a primer?
You're working at breakneck speed compared to the rodeo we had. It felt like we were only able to work on it about one Saturday a month. One reason I guess I took so many pics so we'd remember how it went back together. It's nice to see your almost daily updates. Hope you have a safe trip to DC. I was there at the wall about 20 years ago myself on my senior class trip. Most of those guys on that wall were my around 19. It was pretty impressive to me as an 18 year old, but I'm sure it would be even more so now. I'd like to go back sometime and take my wife. She's never been. No primer. Just a little sanding on the rough spots. The original paint was in good shape so just painted over it. Got the paint from the Komatsu dealer. Part # was 1400002H2 Dresser yellow. It was around $34.80/gallon and we got two gallons. Figure the time and effort in painting, might as well get the dealer stuff.
Yep I joined the Army at eighteen, just thirty days after high school graduation. I was classified as 1-A and I knew that I was just one step ahead of the draft and all of the employers knew that too. No way that I could get a job of any kind. I decided to get it over with and join up. A lot of my friends names were left hanging on that wall. The worst duty that I ever had was "death notification" to the next of kin, day after day. Enough rambling! Excellent reasoning Boone as to why buy the paint from the Caterpillar Dealer, thanks, why didn't I think of that! This forum is just great!
So, what would McGiver have done??? I got no work done at all on the engine today. Long doctor appointment day. Also needed to order some more parts from Off Road Equipment. spin on fuel filter, spin on oil filter, new front engine support bushing $60.00 from Off Road but $400.00 from Cat. New radiator cap seal group, new exhaust stud set with nuts and washers, new double alternator pulley, new battery disconnect switch with key, all new rubber hydraulic return hoses, three new track adjuster cylinder seal kits, two for the 951-C loader and another one, (already replaced one), for the D4-E dozer. I have a new/used fan guard ordered to replace the missing guard on the 951-C. After Boone's words of wisdom, I'll be picking up two gallons of yellow Cat paint from the local Caterpillar dealer and some Proforce degreaser from Sams. While I am at the Cat dealership I will go ahead and order the new set of SALT track chains and two new weld on sprocket rims. This invention should make short work of removing the old cylinder and installing the new liners. I asked my machinist brother fabricate this set up today to use on the liners. Simple enough, if they are easily removable. The bushing is about .005 undersize of the inside of the new liner. Plan A, I might can use the threaded rod with the head on it to pound the liner out from the bottom. Plan B is to use the setup as a liner puller and pull from the top using the front crankshaft pulley over the top of the liner. Padded against the top of the block of course. should be able to use the same bushing and bolt set uo to drive in the new liners after obtaining the correct liner projection. Sounds like a plan, I'll try it out tomorrow and let you know.
Nitelite, the front pulley is not a good thing to use as a bit of press gear to suck out those liners, the belt lip will crack in a heart beat so find something else for the task, those 2 Lanchester shafts need removing from the block with the bearing locations checking, a tricky task without the correct tooling is to fit new front and rear crank seals and tin liners, your engineer brother could help with this issue. tctractors
Nitelite, As for the seal installers I need to find time to check at work. I believe we should have both as a few years back we did do a good amount of 3306 engine work and I believe the 3304 should use the same tools. The only problem would be the shipping. The rear seal tool is a bit on the heavy side. As you seem to have access to a good machinist I could take some pictures and make a sketch or two with dimensions so that brother of yours could make up the parts needed. Really simple tools just need to be able to press the sleeve on the crank and seal in flywheel housing as a unit and get it to the right depth and nice and straight. Think the front is pretty simple too. It is much smaller and therefore lighter so shipping each way might not be too bad. Actually with the flat rate boxes the rear tool might be doable too.
Tony, now that I think about it I do remember that you told me that the front pulley was fragile, no prying on it. Thanks for reminding me again. I will use something else to pull against. I didn't get that far today because of a design flaw in my liner puller. I took it back to my brother to be modified so that it will fit the openings in the block to access the bottom of the liners. I will pull the balancer shafts and check, or just replace the bearings. being a woodworker and not a machinist, I might be able to make some of those tools out of hard maple for one time use. I have a fully equipped wood shop including a lathe big enough that I have turned a five foot tabletop in the past. The modification is self explanatory as you have been there beforeTony The puller needs two flats ground on its outside diameter in order to fit down between the cylinders. McGiver probably would have caught that one right off but I overlooked that crucial detail! I will pull the balancer shafts and decide if I can make, or my brother can make up something to install bearings with. Tony, I ordered standard bearings for the rods, even though I did not know for sure what they would be. The old bearings are marked standard. The old main bearings are marked 4W-5738-C is there a significance to that marking? They are not noted as being standard. I will invite my machinist brother over to measure the crank and make sure that I am installing the correct bearings.
Generous tool loan offer! QUOTE=kshansen;558475]Nitelite, As for the seal installers I need to find time to check at work. I believe we should have both as a few years back we did do a good amount of 3306 engine work and I believe the 3304 should use the same tools. The only problem would be the shipping. The rear seal tool is a bit on the heavy side. As you seem to have access to a good machinist I could take some pictures and make a sketch or two with dimensions so that brother of yours could make up the parts needed. Really simple tools just need to be able to press the sleeve on the crank and seal in flywheel housing as a unit and get it to the right depth and nice and straight. Think the front is pretty simple too. It is much smaller and therefore lighter so shipping each way might not be too bad. Actually with the flat rate boxes the rear tool might be doable too.[/QUOTE] kshansen, Pictures and a sketch would be perfect if you would be so kind. Beginning in the Army and for many years of my younger working life I was a mechanic. I have installed thousands of seals so I understand that some require special tooling. If I can improvise and fabricate tooling from a sketch with measurements, that is what I will do. If I can't I will take you up the offer of the loan of the tooling and will be glad to pay postage both ways. As I said, I will be going to Washington DC in the morning so I will be out of pocket for the next week. Thanks for the generous offer and I, depending on the pictures and sketches, will let you know. One of the seals that you are talking about in the flywheel housing. PS Guys, It has been raining very hard here in middle Tennessee for more than three days at this time and it is forecast to rain for the next week! Tony, is almost too wet here to work inside. The bed of my pickup truck is full of water and overflowing and the tailgate is open!
This afternoon I ordered the new Sprocket rims and SALT track chains from Thompson Caterpillar in Nashville. Cat classic parts, on the cheap for sure. Should outlast me, and they come with a 4,000 hour or three year warranty while my own warranty expired a long time ago. Free shipping to the cat dealer too, as I am in no hurry and I expect about two weeks before I am notified that the parts are in. I will only have a thirty minute drive to have them load it all on my trailer. Who knows, the warranty may expire before I get all of that stuff installed and get the old gal fired up again! Just something to do! Treck has been building undercarriage since 1957 and the reviews are good. You may need to cut and paste the link posted below to check it out and form your own opinion as to quality. Man, I hope that old engine will start right up and run good enough to spin those new tracks! If not, that old Cat will make a fine mail box post, even if I have to push it a quarter mile up the driveway with the old D4-E to get it in the new position. So right now, I don't know if I'll be using that two gallons of Cat yellow to paint my fine 951-C freshly rebuilt track loader or my 951-C track type mailbox post! https://www.google.com/search?sourc...0i10l5j41.0.0.0.12015...........0.W62JrGKsUkI
I just did some research on that main bearing # 4W 5738. It is a standard Caterpillar main bearing for a haven't measured the mains yet as my calipers are not big enough but the journals, both rod and main look to be in really fine shape.
Nitelite, Attaching a screen shot showing the front seal/wear sleeve tool like we have. I'll try to pick it up at work sometime friday and send dimensions, fairly simple tool to make with good lathe and the material to work with. Ours is steel but don't see why it could not be made from aluminum for a one time use. Tried to delete the smaller image but not sure why it stayed.
Now for the rear seal tools: 1-Guide plate with threaded rod in center, not show are the three short 12 point bolts recessed in the plate that bolt it to the crankshaft with the flywheel bolt holes. 2-Wear sleeve to be installed 3-That's your crankshaft! 4-The plate that pushes the seal and sleeve on as an assembly 5-Large nut with big heavy flat washer attached that does the work 6-New seal Again like the front seal tool these are all steel parts so they are a rather heavy bunch of parts. Again like I said about the front seal tool don't see why a lighter metal would not work. Believe they just used steel so they would last for years in a shop environment being used daily. Depending on how things go tomorrow I'll try to bring them home and give you the critical dimensions.
Well the tools are out in my garage tonight, just need to take time get out the calipers and micrometers and take some dimensions.
No hurry, I am in Washington DC until next Tuesday night. thanks
Do you have the caterpillar tool part number for the rear and front seal installers? I would like to look them up on the caterpillar tool list and see what they cost. I purchased the fuel timing tool from Caterpillar when I rebuilt my 3304 and it was worth every cent.
I think rather than buying the tools it would be better to load up the engine and take it to cat for the specialized work. Bet it would be cheaper also by alot.
I bet not. Last week I had my Cat dealer quote installing 3 cylinder kits. Quote was 1500$ for 3 cylinders. I am capable of does this , but I don't have the table for such large cylinders. I had a repair shop do it for me that had the proper table at a total cost of 520$. Our Cat dealer rents specialty tools as well. I believe this guy can handle installing the seals on his engine , he just needs the proper tools , and he knows not to try it without them.
around here installing liners and setting protrusion is 65.00 per hole. but setting the timming on the pump, installing the front and rear main seals this take proper tools to be done correctly. let cat do the specialized work then you take over. i,d also let them install the balance shafts.
The U.K. is so different to the U.S.A. as cylinder liners get set into blocks for Buttons, the fuel pump setting is an easy task with pins or lock plate depending on the fuel pump fitted so its still a Buttons job, the crank seals can be fitted including the wear sleeve without the fancy installer kit by a bit of good "Thinking" as its not hard to do, the Lanchester shafts are easy to set as they cannot be mixed up due to the gear cut also the letter index, the sump plate has the bolt pinning holes to lock the shafts (loose) then by tapping the oil pump dowel level with the mounting surface it makes the fitting up of the pump easy, then you tap the dowel into its location, the need to seek any help from Main Dealers on these engines is none, you can fit the seal groups without the correct tools, if you have a Lathe a handy gizmo can soon be formed to increase your chance of doing this task, don't be put off giving it a pop measure the dip location on the sleeve and seal as fitted to give you a target. tctractors
And don't forget Nitelite has a brother with a lathe! I'm sure once his brother sees the picture of the "Official Cat Tools" he will turn something out in a short time that will do just fine. Just need to be able to push those parts in nice and straight with out buggering them up. I have access to the Cat tools at work but when I needed to do the same job on a 12V-71 I was able to make a slight modification to an old flex plate adapter to push the sleeve on that engine just as nice as if I had the factory tool. Three pieces of threaded rod and a plate with a step on the inside to position things and as TC might say "Bob's your Uncle" Front wear sleeve just needs a piece of tubing that just fits over the end of crank again with a little step to align the sleeve a big washer and some more all-thread and nut and good to go.
kshansen, bang on the "Euro" with that bit of get it done stuff, a bit of flat plate with a few holes in it plus the old seal trimmed an amount can realy sort the issue with the seal and sleeve thing, what has not been brought up is the removal of the old sleeve/s from the crank, I have the upsetting tool to strip them in position, but 2 chisel lines about an inch apart swells the sleeve up enough to pull off by hand. tctractors
Maybe cut a ring of steel a hair smaller OD than the seal bore and large enough ID to not interfere with the seal lip and thick enough to keep the seal about centered on the wear sleeve, then use your flat plat with three flywheel bolt hole in it. Tighten each bolt a touch at a time till it bottoms on the end of crank. With a bit of luck the seal will be bottomed in it's bore. Then carefully install the flywheel and tighten nice and even and this will push the wear sleeve on the last little bit due to the slight counter bore of the flywheel. If you're paranoid, remove flywheel to see if everything looks nice and neat. If seal is not completely seated in the bore ask brother with lathe to make a second ring a bit thicker and use flat plate again to nudge it the last bit. If new front seal is the normal rubber type that does not come packaged with the wear sleeve just need a section of tubing that will be a slip fit on the area where the sleeve goes. Maybe machine a small step in one end say 1/8 inch deep to keep the wear sleeve lined up nice and long enough to position the wear sleeve where it needs to be on the crank then a big flat washer and a bolt to thread in the end of crank to press sleeve on the crank. As the wear sleeve can cause a step that will make the seal lip catch if not very careful I like to use electrical tape wrapped around the crank with just maybe 1/8 inch on the sleeve and then a wrap or two on the crank in front of the sleeve. Makes a nice smooth ramp for the lip to slide up on. Then just pull the one end of the tape off and the ramp is gone. Just go easy on the hammer when hitting the chisel, a little too hard and you nick up the crank. I prefer a not real sharp chisel and a few more gentile taps around the out side.
With tctractors and kshansen on the case, who needs a dealer. I am back home and I'll take a real close look at what I have and what I still need to just get it done. I only have one day, Wednesday, before a three day quick trip to Detroit. When I return from Detroit I will have until May 30th to work on it, then a trip to Alaska. I did get the rest of my parts order delivered today from Off Road Equipment. Thompson Cat called and said that the new track chains and new sprocket rims were in and ready for pick up. That is what I'll be doing tomorrow, hook up my trailer and go get them. It's only thirty miles and the really good thing is there is no freight charges. Free shipment to Thompson Cat and customer pick up from there. Thanks for the input guys!
Dickjr, I don't know where in Kentucky you are located. My my uc parts were delivered to the Cat dealer in Clarksville Tn. Clarksville is right on the Ky. line close to Fort Campbell.
I picked up the uc parts this morning. With some authority, I can tell you that Caterpillar yellow paint is $43.25 per gallon. It is recommended that it be cut for spraying at a rate of 1-10 with cat thinner. Thompson Cat had no thinner in stock so I am not sure what thinner should be used. Thompson Cat was not sure about weather my Ag tax would qualify for exemption for the parts, they called the state of Tennessee to verify my eligibility for the exemption and the state gave them the nod, so, no tax. I have no problem showing the price. I think it is about as good of a deal as can be had and a fair estimate of what the same parts can be bought for. 2 - Salt track chains with bolt up master links @ $1,585.00 each =$3170.00 2 - Sprocket rims @ $185.00 each ----------------------------------= $370.00 Total out the door/ no tax/no freight being charged=$3,540.00
I love buying new stuff especially when its priced fair. personally I think salt chains are the way to go. sure makes the machine run quieter also.
Yes sir that's not to bad for what you got and what you will get out of them. Now the work begins..
I agree BCOWANWHEELS and that was kind of what I was thinking, when you spend that much for a set of track chains, SALT is just a few bucks extra and a no brainer. I thought about just replacing the sprocket rims and taking a link out of the chain, that is an ok idea and would probably do me for the rest of my lifetime but what the heck? I could swear that I saw that old cat smile when I arrived with the new uc. I understand Rustyratchet, I have the engine to reassemble and install. Then block the old gal up and remove the pads, chains, and track frames. There are some track frame broken bolts to deal with. I'll swap some bottom rollers around, cut the sprocket rims off and weld on the new ones. Next up will be to swap out the pads and hardware and put it all back together. That's no step for a stepper. I'll be sitting in the seat with the wind hitting me in the face in no time at all. Can anyone that has bought new chains with split links tell me? Does the eight master link bolts usually come with the new chain or do you purchase them separately? I wanted to ask everyone, but I'll call Cat and ask tomorrow.
The bolts usualy come with the chains in the U.K. you might need to check the bolt pattern on the master plate as this can be odd to the standard plate, good to see you spending all your washers Nitelite you will soon be as poor as me. tctractors
Yep Tony, I had a really exotic automobile picked out for the next purchase. With so much coin of late going to the smiling Cat, I might need to back off a bit and consider stepping down and just put the bride in something like a Land Rover. If that cat don't quit smiling and demanding it will need to be a used Rover at that! I called Cat this morning and they said that the bolts should be wired to the center of the coil, not visible until the coil is rolled out. I'll be on a airplane headed to Detroit in a few hours. While I am there I'll catch some of the Henry Ford's museum.
The hardware to bolt up the master link is stuffed in the center of the coils. I spent the morning working on the F250. She started idling rough yesterday when I went to pick up the track chains. It ran good above 1,000 RPMs. The diesel fuel that I drained from the filter/water separator looked like chocolate milk. I changed the fuel filter and did an oil change w/filter. Also changed the transmission fluid and filter while I was at it. I let it run for awhile drawing from both tanks and then drained the fuel filter bowl again and it only produced clean fuel. Evidently my, " water in fuel ", idiot light is no longer working.
Back at it! Got my liner tool modification finished and a little more done today. The tool sitting in the liner ready to drive the liner out All worked as planned after the tool modification. About five or six blows with a 14 lb. sledge got the liners moving. Done!
Does your F250 have the primary fuel pump in the frame rail. On my 06 F350 there is also a 6MM allen screw in the bottom of the pump casing just ahead of where the filter screws on. You need to also remove it to drain all the water out. Failure to do that seems to result in short pump life, at least in my case. Found that in he book after I had to replace the pump.
old iron, that is a good question, I just don't know, not having any prior fuel troubles, but I will check it out. It is a 1989 model so it is too old to die young. It has 73,000 miles on it now and I have only replaced the filter once before, although I have drained it a few times before.
why didnt you use a threaded rod and pull them from the top ?
Because he made a special tool and had a 14# sledge?
Just a heads up on lubing the new O-rings for install, I always used Crisco shortening, won't cause the rings to swell or to cross contaminate the antifreeze as petroleum greases will. May need to use your removal tool as a install tool as if I am correct the upper rim on the Cat sleeves are interference fit.
WHEN I DID cummins engines they used a form of silicone on and around the top of the sleeve to give added sealing. isnt there a protrusion needed on the top of the linners too ?
Yep, Dickjr, If you don't use those #14s now and then they will rust up on you. I already had the engine in the upside down position because the crankshaft came out last. I chose to drive the liners out rather than pull them with the threaded rod because I didn't want to turn the engine over again in order to pull the liners. It was really six of one and half a dozen of the other. The next operation is to pull the balance shafts to check/ replace bearings and then move outside to pressure wash and really clean up the engine block. Next will be to fit and set the liner protrusion with the block in the upright position. I will just sit down and do it right the first time, whatever time it takes. I am in no big hurry. Yes DMiller, the tool will come in handy installing the new liners. That further justifies the time taken to fabricate the tooling. I am thinking, that is where the threaded rod will really come in handy. I can pull them down, working from the bottom. Cat recommends liquid soap/water on the bottom O-rings and then just before final instillation dip the upper seal in oil and quickly install the liner as the oil causes swelling of the seal in a short time after contact.
Checking liner protrusion Time to start putting back together. 0.002 1/2 I have not really worked with it yet but my first impression is that I may need to order a shim kit. The cross bar is part of an automotive air conditioner clutch puller. Two spacers (green) are pcs of conduit and bolted down with two head bolts. Indicator on magnetic stand is from Harbor Freight.
Just thought I would check your clamping method, I tend to use a flat plate or a liner pulling plate with 2 sides chopped off on top under the hard bar used to clamp things down, this is to save any chance of damage to the top of the liner, the 2 bolts on the hard bar are set down to the standard CAT clamp set of 50 ft lbs, you then measure all the cylinder hights to see how things look, swapping around liners to get the best liner match up, it might be worth checking the liner flange thickness as this can be off, I think the standard is .500 of an inch, on the shim thing firstly you need to check your counter bore condition, then to add shims this will need a cut of the C/bore as you don't get shims under 5 thou, 7 thou is often the starting point, the next job is to check the Cam lift this is I think 330 thou checked via a long bar dropped down the lifter bore (machined up), the clamping force of the liner is all done through the top flange so it needs to be good, a Swiss Mira cutter would soon sort things. tctractors
Think TC got his decimal point off a little, working too many hours can do that! Here is what the Cat manual on SIS says: 1. Install tooling as shown. Tighten bolts (1) evenly in four steps: 1st step ... 5 lb. ft.(7 N·m) 2nd step ... 15 lb. ft.(20 N·m) 3rd step ... 25 lb. ft.(35 N·m) 4th step ... 50 lb. ft.(70 N·m) 2. Measure cylinder liner projection with dial indicator (7) clamped in 1P2402 Gauge Body (6) as shown. Measure at four places around each cylinder liner near the clamped area. Cylinder liner projection measurement for any cylinder liner must be ... .0020 to .0056 in.(0.051 to 0.142 mm) Maximum permissible difference between all four measurements ... .002 in.(0.05 mm) Maximum permissible difference between average projection of any two cylinders next to each other ... .002 in.(0.05 mm) Maximum permissible difference between average projection of all cylinder liners under one cylinder head ... .003 in.(0.08 mm) NOTE: If liner projection is not correct, turn the liner to a new position within the bore. If projection can not be corrected this way, move the liner to a different bore. If the projection can not be corrected this way, make reference to Special Instruction, Form No. FM055228 for complete instructions on the use of 8S3140 Counterboring Tool Arrangement. Have to agree finding someone with the Swiss tool is the best, had one where I worked. Fast and easy and repeatable results and would work on many different engines not just one or two like the Cat tooling.
After rotating and swapping liners around a few times all measurements are within specs. Least is protrusion is .002 and most is .004. I am satisfied that it is time to settle on those results and move on. No shims required. Tomorrow I will work on the head. I cleaned up the head and removed one intake and one exhaust valve this afternoon. The guides have some play but not all that bad. I am undecided as whether to just send the head out to the machine shop. At the least I will replace all valves and lap them in. I'll get some prices tomorrow and make the decision. kshansen, The overhaul kit came with a new front crankshaft seal with the wear sleeve. The kit did not include a wear sleeve for the other end, (rear main seal end) of the crankshaft. I really would like to replace the rear seal wear sleeve. Is that sleeve optional for replacement or is it usually replaced as the result of a separate parts order? TC might also chime in on this one. As far as tctractors getting the decimal point in the wrong place, when you are dealing in the kind of coin that it takes to buy a new Rover, along with all of the goodies and at the same time trying to balance the books for the sake of the bride, moving decimal points around just helps keep the peace in the family. With all of the money that I am saving by doing my own equipment repair and rebuild, I just might convince the wife that I have saved enough to afford a new Rover. If I come up short I am sure that,if I look real good, I could find more needed repairs that need to be done so that we could save some more money!
I think my dots might be in the right spot as my .500 = 1/2" that is the thickness of the liner flange measured with the liner out of the engine, I have had plenty of liners that have have not been made correctly in this area, I measure the flange thickness on liners before I try to install them in the block to measure the hight above block face, I.P.D. liners are always bang on with the flange thickness, it would seem I was from memory good about the 7 thou shim thing although I have seen 5 thou shims non O.M. the important thing is to check the face of the counter bore for any damage, with the Swiss Mira cutter it is easy to get all the liners set to the top spec' hight, if .002 thou' is within target? and all the other holes are within the set standard, you need to stuff your rubber rings on not forgetting to soak the top filler band in E/Oil then using your pulling plate and the hard bar bolt them down, once the liners are located into the block use 5 short bolts and washers to hold all 4 liners in place until you fit the head. tctractors
It is a bit late and a little cold to be going out to the shop in my underwear and slippers tc. I just had to go out and measure the counter bore in the block. The c/bore measures 0.4 or 13/32 in. The liner flange is just about 0.406. My 3304 engine does not have the spacer plate on top of the block if that might make a difference, I don't know. Thanks for the tip about using the short bolts and washers to hold the liner down until the head is ready to install. I was thinking that I should hold off on the final liner instillation until I got the head and valves sorted.
My bad, I miss read the .500 I was thinking you were referring to the protrusion not the flange thickness!
Is this a genuine Cat gasket kit or aftermarket, like IPD? The last I knew the Cat rear seals came with the seal and sleeve as a set in the same package and they were to be kept assembled as a set when installing them. The original style rear seals, ones with the rubber lip and metal spring inside come as separate parts and could be sized to be used with no wear sleeve. If you compare the new one with the original seal you should be able to see a difference on the ID. I'll do some checking on SIS to see if they give part numbers for each type. Found the following info: Is there a part number printed on your rear seal to match up in the chart?
I have a PDF file of the SMHS7100 form mentioned in the above chart if you would like a copy PM me with an email address. Also Nitelite, if you give me a ship to address I can ship both tools to you, believe they will both fit in a $20.00 flat rate box.
You have got mail. I did send you a PM and thanks again for the offer. If you don't get the PM for some reason, let me know. I just talked to Jeff at Off Road Equipment and he is sending the rear sleeve with seal. I also ordered all new valves and valve guides. Do you have any pointers on removing and installing the new valve guides in the head?
My thoughts would be if you are replacing the guides it would be best to have a machine shop cut the seats. I'm sure you might be able to lap them in but the seats are very hard not like the seats in an old car engine that are just cut into the cast iron head. Also if the guides are worn the seats will have most likely worn along with the guides causing them to no longer be concentric with each other. Guess what I'm trying to do is get you to spend your money, but want this engine to last many years after all the work you are putting into it. So if you are going to have the shop grind the seats I'd just hand them the new guides and let them remove and install them. The other option would be if you want to swap the guides then let the shop do the valve seats. If you want to go that route I'd take one of the new guides over to that brother with the lathe and have him make a driver. All you need is to machine one end down about 1 inch long that slips in the guide and then step up to a section a few thousands smaller OD than the new guide and this section should be a bit longer than the guide. Then with a careful application of a 4 LB hammer drive them down from the top. Or if you have access to any kind of press you can do it that way and not make as much noise! You can use the same driver to install the new ones, just need to go easy when close to the right height or have the brother bore out a chunk of steel to slip over the new guide so that the end of the driver will hit the head when guide is at the correct height. Sis says " Height to top of valve guide ... .875 in.(22.23 mm) " This also can be done with a hammer or press if available. Driving new guides in can peen the end a little and my need a light touch with a tapered reamer to allow valve to fit easy. Most Cat guides I put in did not need to be finish reamed after being installed.
I'll know more when I get the new valves and guides. I am fitting the rods to the new pistons and installing the new rings. Just about to the point of being able to bolt down the liners and put the crank shaft back. I won't have a lot of time to work on it again until Monday.
Bit of a Sad day for me yesterday as although I managed to keep my old chariot (L/Rover) for about 3 weeks after the new Toy landed in my yard, the time had come to set her free to a new home, this involved a full days work getting all my junk out of the 1, then stuffing it all into the new banger, the new 1 was just sitting taxed and road legal I hope its as good to me as the last mount. On your C/Head job the valve guides just press in to a hight spec' you can also hit them in-out with a hammer, I do it with my press and fancy tooling as I have it, but this tooling is not needed although its easy to have made, I did tell you about the forward mark on the Con Rod, also the piston oil control ring can be of 2 thickness spec's, so make sure your ring fills up the groove on the piston, always turn the crank pin to the bottom of the stroke as you fit the piston in the bore with Rod bolts removed is the safe way. tctractors
The crank shaft is back in the block and it is ready for the final liner instillation and the new pistons. I am ready to turn the block to the upright position for the next step. I had to turn the block upside down this morning to install the crank and main bearings. A chain on the tractor lift came unhooked with the engine four foot in the air above the concrete shop floor. I got lucky. The chain happened to be wrapped around the lift arm of the tractor several times and the unwinding of the chain broke the fall and let it down easy. From now on I will hook the chain and put a bolt through the links for safety.
some liners and block pics
bye bye to the old Landy.Tommy has about four of these in black and silver 'just like Tony's'....as he says. Hope the new one is a similar colour.
Nicky,the new chariot is just slightly darker but with better bits on, bigger winch, fancy candles, and lots of sparkles, plus more grip on the rubber bits, its all a bit "Pikey" but it does drive well with the same No plate so little Tommy would be thinking its the same banger. tctractors
Nicky, what did you use to clean that engine? It really looks good. I want to paint my engine and engine compartment before installing the engine back in place. I have tried several degreasers and solvents and a 3,000 psi pressure washer but I am not satisfied that it is clean enough that the paint will stick. Steam would be a nice option but I have no access to a steam cleaner. Nice job of blocking that engine up, it looks safe enough.
Nitelite.TC Tractors has full controle of how things get done in the yard.I just provide payment to him and the results of his work speak for themselves.Wrong diagnosis or shoddy workmanship would simply render these old machines into the 'non profit' zone.Allthough I am not reliant on these old tractors to put food on my table,I keep records of everything that goes against them cost wise (including Tony's bacon sandwich and occasional pint of best English mild) and the figures MUST stack up.They do,so That's why I still run old kit profitably. So that's why when he asks me for some sort of paraffin to clean things up with(and not the diesel I offered him),I go and buy some for him.He once set me a task to do in his absence that consisted of 'simply' cleaning a bare D342 block up after machining in readiness for liners and crank etc.He asked me to powerwash every port and nook and crannie with my washer (I don't have a steamer),then he asked me to dry it out so condensation wouldn't cause the rust problem( I hung the block over a fire and bbq'd it!!) He would probably have crashed his Rover if he knew that!.I was then instructed to brush oil over the mating surfaces to stop them rusting until he was ready to come up and do the job.It was also a shock to me of how much swarfe and grime came out of the oil rifle and block ports.I would simply have chucked a gallon of diesel down it,but no,he told me to block all 6 ports up,fill the rifle up with clean engine oil then drain them over cardboard.I did this every morning for a week and plainly saw the swarfe and grime that the engine oil had dragged down to the bottom on the cardboard.Once it ran clean,then he was happy to fit the crank and liners in etc. I would never have thought of that amount of hygein and would have settled for changing the oil and filters after the first hour.Just imagine that swarfe running around all those new bearings and crank etc for a minuit,never mind an hour!!!
once cleaned,dried,then oiled up,he suggested that I line everything up with tissue paper to stop condensation rust as this job was done in stages through one winter. As for 'dropping' liners in,he spent about a day with strange looking gauges,his books,a pair of glasses with torches stuck to the arms and the workshop radio switched off.I had had the block skimmed and decked etc and counter bored so everything would line up as it should.He went over the machine shops work with a fine toothcomb until he was satisfied.Then the new IPD liners etc were measured up in turn before he would use them.Apparently,even new good quality parts need to be measured up.. The end result.....? Well,that tractor engine has about 1400 hrs on it absolutely trouble free.Last season we had an English heatwave for a good few months and those D8's were often working 12 hour shifts in temps in the high 70's and 80's.The thing hasn't used a TEASPOON of water at all and about half a gallon of oil was used between 200 hour intervals.It's strong and sweet and for the cost of £13800 for purchase,rebuild and installation of the motor(about $22000 US) I am a happy customer. The tractor has currently been stood since December with only a few hours work pulling a scraper and is to be fitted with the D8K laydown style muffler.The new parts are in my office,but I have been too busy to take a look at it.Perhaps this week?
Nitelite,My main source of income comes from importing timber and selling it on.I also have joiners working flat out making things from gates to summerhouses,coffins to chairs,fenceing to planters........and I occasionaly have the lads (and girl) knock engine and transmission cradles up to transport lumps abroad(the last job was a Cat 631D engine to Libya).I also provide big baulkes to Komatsu Mining UK so,you'd think that my 'cribbing' as Tony calls it,would be spot on.Only when my staff do the job is it any good,because,I have a touch of half measured cowboy in me and anything that I personally do is pretty naff actually!!
Not had a lot of time to work on it. Pistons and liners back in. Next will be the new front and rear main seals, oil pump and oil pan. it would have been a big mistake to have done an in frame overhaul on this engine. I am glad I decided on the complete overhaul. .
Nitelite, one thing I love when I see your work is that you practice what my grandad always used to bang into me as a kid - "cleanliness is only one step removed from Godliness". Personally if I'm working on something I like it to be clean, more than anything so it makes it easy to see what I'm doing.
Same here! Had a guy ask Norm and me why we were so fussy about cleaning things so much when rebuilding engines or transmissions, guess he figured "What the heck, the're only going to get dirty again when they go to work in the quarry!" When we would rebuild a component like oil pump or filter head for an engine and it was not going to be installed right then we would tape over all openings and if possible put in a plastic bag till we were ready to install on the engine. Also out the mounting hardware and gaskets or seals in the bag. Then when time to install it everything was right there.
I like to keep things clean and orderly while I am working. When working in a clean environment problems are more easily detected and mistakes are more obvious. Thanks to the loan of the tooling by kshansen the rear seal and wear ring are now installed as is the flywheel and rear cover. The seal installer sure made short work of that task. Slow is the progress but I am doing it once and checking it twice! Next is the oil pump, oil pan and timing cover.
Shush! don't say that too loud I did not ask management if I could loan it out yet! But then I don't work there anymore so they can't fire me!:naughty
The Flywheel has a chisel mark on it to match up with the chisel mark on the crank end, don't be tempted to run a clean up tap into the crank/flywheel bolt holes as these threads are cut with a fancy tap to a very tight thread form, on fitting your oil pump you will find it easier to manage by tapping the dowel pins down flush to the mounting face until you get the bolts loosely installed, no doubt you checked the Lanchester shafts and bearings as these suckers spin x2 Crank speed. tctractors
Progress Needed to visit with all of the mothers in the family and spend some time with the wife but I got some work done after dark until 2:30 AM. Yes tc I did inspect the balancers and bushings, I was surprised to find no need to do anything there. The shafts and bushings show little to no wear. With the balancers mounted in the engine and a micrometer set up on the shafts, I can pry on them and there is no play at all. Oil pump back in. With the engine in the vertical position it is hard to line up things without destroying a gasket. I have cut the heads off of bolts to make guide pins before but I discovered that I can use taps for the same purpose. Note that I have two screwed into the block to quickly guide the oil pan with no harm to the gasket. The pan slides home on the two taps. I hope that I didn't forget anything. I am expecting to get the timing cover installed tomorrow. Then I will get a chance to see how the front seal installer works. The tool that kshansen didn't loan me from work, cause he don't work there anymore, remember, he retired! :beatsme
Do you have access to a small pressure tank or an old inline fuel pump? I would highly recommend pressure feeding the oil system as you get the old girl closer to a first start, we used to do that when I worked heavy equipment years ago but we had what was similar to a air tank bubble for flat tires but with a fill port to put oil in it. I have also used a diesel fuel rated inline fuel pump but they usually run less than 5 pounds and I do not think quite the same result.
If you spin the engine the first time with the fuel off then so long as you take it easy on the starter you could most likely generate enough oil pressure on the crankshaft without even firing the engine up. A couple of psi would be all that was needed to lubricate the internals.
Leave off the valve cover before the first start and crank till you see a little flow around the rocker arms. Then install the valve cover and start engine.
Didn't get a lot done today. A lot of small stuff needed to be done and that took some time. I also dropped a 3/8 x 1" 1/4 bolt down through the lifter hole and it fell on to the top of the oil pan plate. I removed the square access plate on the left side of the engine and did some fishing with a magnet. It took some time and some engine rotating but I found it with the magnet. Early on I cut and drilled two pieces of steel to bolt to the engine block to use as a lifting point. Depending on which head bolt location I choose I can lift the engine or turn it. The strap is rated at more than 4,000 lbs. but I don't trust it and I take no chances with it. The ag tractor has no problem with lifting the weight. The engine is about 2,500 lbs. The tractor is capable of lifting about 3,500 lbs. I ended up priming the oil pump through this hole. Oil pressure should be generated quickly with the pump primed. Again, using two thread taps as guide pins to install the rear drive hub.
I have to wait on parts before continuing to assemble the engine. My kit had the wrong timing cover gaskets and injector pump housing gaskets. I also need to replace a bushing in the accessory shaft idler gear and it is ordered. I pulled the fuel injector housing to bolt up the timing fixture plate and I don't have those new gaskets, but they are on the way. I think the kit that I was sent had a different engine arrangement than my loader. Off Road Equipment is making it right. They are really good people to deal with. While I have the engine out I am taking the opportunity to change the transmission filter as it is easy to access with an empty engine compartment. I am also changing all of the old rubber transmission cooler return hoses. I had my brother fabricate the tooling to drive out and replace the new valve guides. I will pick up the tooling tomorrow afternoon. Meanwhile, I will spend some more time with the pressure washer and degreaser in the engine compartment getting it ready for a coat of paint before the engine goes back in. The fan guard was missing off of the machine when I obtained it. I located one in Iowa and it is being shipped also. All the while, I am soaking the bolts and nuts with plenty of PB Blaster that hold the track frames on. I hope that they don't give a lot of trouble when I get ready to remove them in order to replace sprocket rims and track chains.
If you don't remove the pump drive gear that you have marked you don't need the lock plate as the drive to the pump is via an off-set tang and cannot be set incorrectly, the idler bush is always worn some and needing a new 1 pressing home. tctractors
Tony, I needed to replace all of the 4 inch pieces of rubber hose that connect the transmission oil cooler beside the radiator to the transmission. There are several 1"x 4" sections of rubber hose in those lines. I cut and removed the two sections just in front and below the transmission filter to be able to get the filter assembly out. When I changed the filter and buttoned it up I noticed that the cooler lines that I disconnected can be swapped as someone before me did not use the frame clamps that are provided. As they just run up to the transmission cooler and back, does it make a difference if they are swapped or does the direction of flow make any difference?
Here are pictures of the transmission cooler hoses in question. Things seem to fit better routing the hoses this way. I think that they were hooked up backwards before. This is how I ended up routing the hoses. Note that it works out with the frame bracket which was not used before.
Got parts today I got the missing gaskets and a new idler gear bushing today so I made some more progress. I installed the bushing and re mounted the injector pump on to the accessory shaft. I had hoped to get the timing cover back on the engine after replacing the idler gear bushing but I had to cut the front engine support off of the timing cover. The timing cover got pretty warm and I decided to just let it cool down naturally before trying to press the new engine mount back on. I picked up the valve guide remover and installer tools that my brother made for me. Pictured left to right is an intake valve, the driver outer tool, the driver inner tool and a new valve guide. The driver outer tool with a valve guide fitted. The driver inner tool with a new valve guide inserted The new valve guide slips into the tool .875". When the guide is driven into the head until the driver contacts the head surface, the guide will be driven to the specified .875".
I hope you take this brother out to a nice dinner for all his work!:drinkup
It is hard to beat a close brother and we kind of do for each other, we always have. He is as good as they come at what he does.I hope to get the timing cover back on today. If so, I can install the front seal and wear ring. Using that seal instillation tooling I expect it to be an easy task. Then It will be a matter of just bolting on accessories and then working the valves, guides and seats in the head.
Real progress today! Timing cover is back on the engine. That was a milestone but it takes whatever time it takes to do it right. The alternator and starter are next. Then it is down to working the head. When I install the head final cleaning will follow and then I plan to paint the engine and engine compartment before instillation. I will finish painting the rest of the machine after I get finished with the sprocket rims and track chains are replacement. Looking at the picture, I think that I need to make another trip to the shop tonight and move that unstable lifter that is about to fall off of the engine! Looking better all the time.
All valve guides are out. I am freezing the new guides before instillation. I supported the head in three places with 2x3" oak blocking before attempting to drive out the guides. The starter and alternator are the only components lacking instillation other than the head. I had to replace the pulley on the alternator. The old one was worn so bad that the rim of the front belt groove would cut you.
Is that a single post alternator that has a built-in regulator? Speaking of the gauge clusters, How is the wiring done on the amp meter? Or does your machine have a volt meter instead?
It is a single post alternator. My 951 only has a volt meter.
I am in the process of cleaning up the pre chamber ports in the head. The head ready for new valves and guides Taking some time out and doing some woodworking in order to get kshansen's tools properly packed up for shipping back to him.
Want to bet the post office will manage to bust that wood too! I thought my shipping box was a little over kill but they damaged that!
Packed up and eady to mail back to you tomorrow. Nothing was wrong with your packing job but a box that heavy can only take so much abuse. I think that the first leg of the trip for the package must have been aboard a North Eastern Amtrak! It looks like the wood went through the lower corners on both sides. As a result, I did some reinforcement in the lower corners. It is ready to mail, I will get it to the the Post Office in the morning.
The process of working the head, doing it my way with what methods and tools I have. I drove the new valve guides in after freezing them for twenty four hours. They were a tight fit but no problems. I used one each of the best of the old intake and exhaust valves to use to grind the seats after replacing the valve guides. I used the old valves with grinding compound to make the first grinding pass. As shown, I chucked the valve stem in a drill motor while pushing pressure on the face of the valve with a rag dipped in oil. Be sure to use some oil inside the new valve guide. Use pressure on the face of the valve while spinning the valve with the drill motor. Use more compound as needed when the gritty sound subsides. When it looks to be getting close, swap the old valve with a new one and continue to grind the seat to fit the new valve. Check for fit with the bluing to see when there is a seal all the way around the seat. To check, remove the valve, clean the seat and valve. Use just a small amount of bluing at a couple of places on the newly ground edge of the valve. Insert the valve into the guide and rotate the valve one revolution using the wooden valve rotator with the stoppers on the ends. Remove the valve and see if the bluing transferred to the seat fully. If not, repeat the grind again using the drill motor and grinding compound. Recheck with bluing. You can see that the bluing transfer is not showing total coverage yet. This valve would leak and burn. More grinding is required here. After grinding a little more you can see that the coverage is better but not yet complete. This valve would also leak and burn. Just a little more grinding to clean it up and get a good seal. When I get total coverage like pictured here I clean the valve and seat and grind one more time but by hand using the valve stick with the stoppers instead of the drill motor. Clean the entire valve, oil the stem, and fit it back into its guide. Inspect the spring, put the spring and keepers on and that valve is done.
Savings on working the head myself was more than $600.00 The estimate to do the valve job was $600.00 minimum. Any new valves, valve guides, valve springs and valve seats were to be extra and to be determined at the time that they disassembled and inspected my head. Turn around time was two weeks. I don't doubt that the final cost would have exceeded $1000,00. To take the head to the machine shop would have been a forty mile trip each way. Now, to see what I had to work with! This is what two of the exhaust valve seats looked like when I started working the head, badly pitted and the valves burned. All of the valves, intake and exhaust needed replacing. I only had two valves, one intake and one exhaust that were not leaking. The same valve seat after I ground it and lapped it in by hand. The head is ready to be put back on the engine. Tomorrow's project If I don't get interrupted. I spent less than $100.00 including all new valves, all new valve guides, the valve grinding compound, the bluing, and the hand valve grinding stick. Total time spent on the head including replacing the guides and grinding the valves was about five to six hours. Having my brother make the tools to replace the guides, priceless! Back in the day, many years ago, when I made my living as a mechanic, I had access to a valve grinder and anything else that was required to do a valve job. I don't have access to the equipment any more but I still possess the skill, the knowledge and can improvise in a pinch. This is not the first head that I have reworked using the same methods. I, like many of you, have more time than money. And there is the thrill of DIY! Next is on to inspecting, cleaning and refitting the pre chambers and injectors. I am getting close enough to smell first smoke!
Nice work Nitelite Read through the whole thread and it's good to see it coming together, A video of the first fire would be good too Best of luck mate
Looks like you might have a crack between the precup hole and the inlet valve. Fairly common on these I'm afraid.
What Cmark is referring to is what is seen by the arrow in this picture: Not sure what the current options are to repair this. Usually when we had one like this we got a reman head from Cat. Might be worth taking to the people you have been dealing with for parts to see what they say. Sorry to be giving bad news when you are this close, but you'd be even more upset if you put the head on and then had a problem.
I had the same problem when I got the heads on my D7 17-A done. When pressure tested crack was found. Found a used head and had it done. Also make sure your pre cups are good. have had 2 of those cracked over the years.
Roll with the punches and play the hand that you have been dealt, no other choice! Good spot Cmark. No doubt, a close inspection confirms that it is indeed a crack. A closer yet inspection, from what I can see, is it is just on the surface of the head. It does not extend through the valve seat and runs no farther than can be seen in the pictures. It is only one thread deep into the pre cup chamber as can be seen in the picture. Everything looks good inside the pre chamber. It can't leak water. It can't leak compression, and it does not effect the performance of the valve seat. I will proceed and see what happens when I fire it up. I have little to loose by trying it. Worst case is having to pull the head back off, a quick operation, and the cost of a head gasket. I won't put the sheet metal back on until I check it out after the engine warms up. Meantime I'll be looking at re manufactured heads or other options just in case my luck runs sour. I shined it up with a diamond die grinder and a wire brush to get a better look. You can see that it appears to be shallow, only one thread deep in the pre cup threads. More like a spider web. I did not see it at all until Cmark and kshansen pointed it out. I thought it was just a scratch. Pre cups and injectors cleaned up ok and seem to be good shape. This is one of the old rings. I don't see how it ran as good as it did. It started good, ran good, seemed to have plenty of power, it just used a lot of oil and had blow by and slobbered out the exhaust. Could be that I just didn't know just how much power the old gal should have had.
I'm following your logic Nitelite and I agree. In your case you have nothing to lose except some time and a couple of gaskets. If the worst comes to the worst, an aftermarket fully loaded head can be bought here in Aus for around $1500, so in the good old, you should be able to pick one up for maybe a grand??
Nitelite, Do you have the instructions on installing the pre cups? They need to be installed with the glow plugs in the right position so the wiring doesn't foul on the exhaust. Now you can see how that tool you have works?
Did a little checking on SIS on this head. They show part numbers for two reman heads. The first one I believe is a bare head 0R0831 that one does not come up with a price and says "Check with dealer on Availability" Next is what I think would be complete with valves 0R2096 that one has a price of $999.35 + core and also says "Check with dealer on Availability" Third is 325-6107 which is the "Cat Classic" I believe bare head (no valves) for $972.71 and they show 6 of them on the shelf in York PA.
Cmark, I am glad that you agree with my first option. I think the fully loaded head would be my best bet if I do indeed need a head considering the quote for doing the valve job on my head was so unreasonable. I do have the manual for installing the pre cups and glow plugs. I also have a new assortment of the different size washers to properly clock the glow plugs. I also found where the splined tool fits and I can see why you made the tool that you sent to me to remove the injector nozzles, clever idea. My nozzels came out easily and were not stuck. I am going to make some iron filings and sprinkle on the head around the crack. Then magnetize the head. If the crack is substantial the filings should be drawn to the edge of the crack. In any case, I think that I can't go wrong by at least trying the head. I really don't think, from what I can tell, that crack will make any difference unless it opens up in the warm up.
What would you guys recommend for the break in period for the engine after the rebuild? Is it required to re torque the head and re check/set the valves after a warm up period? I have decided to use Rotella 15-40 oil for break in period and maybe go back to 30 wt. at first change.
IF it was me i,d get another head. this crack is only going to get bigger and i bet with a magnifluxing you,ll find more not visable to the eye.
Firstly the oil cooler pipes need to be in the correct location to avoid the drama as there is a pressure control block just past the starter motor that sort of needs the correct directional flow, the cylinder head looks to have copped an arrow and is showing good signs of blowing water, if you look at the valve inserts also around the area, clear to see is the Pox mark of Doom, I never bother with Magnaflux testing heads, I use a spy glass and a finger nail its faster and costs less, in the U.K. its possible to get Non O.E. heads full of all the toys ready to drop on, or heads complete less the valves, anyhow if the head was not causing you any issues before, its not going to be off the Agenda to stuff it back on top, I once owned a Komatsu D50S shovel that had 8 nasty looking cracks 2 on each pot, I had less than No coinage so I stuffed it back onto the block even using the old head gasket it worked perfect, on the re-torque and resetting of the lash, I only do it if the customer tells me to as its a lot of work. tctractors
As you have been very fussy about having everything spotless during assemble I'd put it in the machine warm it up under light load while keeping an eye for any problems then once it's up to temp. put it to work! Don't think Cat ever recommended re-torque of the head bolts. I would run through the valve settings after a few hours work and if you want to be real fussy after the first oil change. I never liked doing the valves hot on an engine as the engine is always cooling down and the settings for the first valves could end up being different by the time you get to the last one. Now this being a simple 4 cylinder might not be as big a problem as on a V12 or V16! Not sure what anyone else would say but I'd stick with the 15W-40 that's all we used for many years where I worked several engines have gone over 20,000 hours and still running strong.
Well BCOWANWHEELS, If I had your money I guess I would spring for the new head too, and hire someone to put it on for me. I might even consider hiring an operator to test out the machine for me while I take a rest and catch up on watching TV. :beatsme
Comming down the back strech! I put the head on the engine and got it torqued down. Valve train is installed and valves adjusted. Valve cover back on. Pre chambers back together and fuel injectors are back in and hooked up to the pump. All outside pluming installed. I was on a roll so I just kept on working, worked until 4:00 AM. I lack bolting up the starter and alternator. Then it is outside for the final cleaning and some paint. Used the ag tractor to lift the head and I cut two the wooden dowels to position the head before lowering it onto the new head gasket. Easy does it!
Regarding re-torquing head bolts the current thinknig is not to bother if they have been pulled down correctly the first time using a recently-calibrated torque wrench. To me that's the critical part, the torque wrench could be miles out. Valve adjustment is recommended at the first oil change. We did a lot of work on dynos and found that most if not all of the changes in valve adjustment on a new or recently-rebuilt engine came in the first 20 hours or so of operation. So basically any time after that is good for doing the re-set. We preferred to set valves at the first oil change simply because it was convenient to do so.
Don't forget to tape over that S/N tag before you paint, might want to read it some day when you can't find your notes!:thumbsup
found this and thought of you, fairly close too ! https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/hvo/5003381526.html
I appreciate your taking the time to try and help me out and posting the link but, that head is for a 943 with a 3 2 04 engine, I have a 951-C with a 3 3 04 engine. I am confident that my old head will be just fine. A remanufactured head is $999.00 plus freight and my old head as a core. They will check my core and weld it up and sell it to the next guy as a remanufactured head. If I thought that my head needed welding, my brother could do that for me. As a side note, A friend, Henderson Cole, had an old Hudson automobile that was bought for him by his dad when the car was new, Henderson drove the car to high school. The car later developed engine trouble. The engine head was removed and left sitting in a barn upside down for many years. Chickens roosted for years above the head and the chicken poop destroyed one of the cylinder surfaces in the middle of the head. Henderson decided to restore the car but could never find a replacement head. My brother cut the head into and then cut the bad section out. He fabricated the new center section by machining it out of a solid block of steel and then welded the three sections together to complete the head. The car runs just fine and was recently sold after the owner died and is on display at The Motor Sports Complex on Highway 12 North just outside of Nashville TN. It sits inside on display with the hood up and proudly displays the welded up head and the story behind it. Next time I go by there I'll get pictures to post.
Finished with the engine overhaul, just need to paint and install it in the loader. Looking back, the old engine was slobbering oil and burning oil pretty bad, therefore the decision to overhaul it. I can say that before the tear down, multiple times with the engine warm and cold, I spent some time with the large radiator cap off, engine running, looking for bubbles in the coolant and never saw any. Working the machine very hard for four to six hour periods the engine did not overheat the least bit. Never any water in the oil or oil in the water. Not having operated any other loader, I can't compare power but it seemed to have plenty of power to me. It had no trouble spinning the tracks even with new shoes installed. All things considered, that is why I have confidence that the head is good to go. tctractors sort of hit the nail on the head, If the head was good enough when I stopped working the machine then it is good enough to start working the machine. I did consider that installing the new valve guides might have caused the crack, but the crack does not extend to a valve guide. Time will tell, or not! My old granddaddy, God bless his sole, could fix anything with chewing gum and bailing wire. He would take the radiator cap off of his T Model Ford, refill it with water, take the wad of chewing tobacco out of his mouth and shove it down into the radiator and say, "that'll plug that leak in a few miles boy"! He would be telling me in a heart beat, "put the dammed head back on the motor son, and quit worrying bout it". "Hers ye some backee case ya need it". It is ready for the paint prep. All openings have been made water tight. kshansen, that circle that I band sawed out to of the plywood to pack up your rear main seal tool for shipping didn't go to waste. That is it, fitted to the intake opening. The belts will be removed for painting. I will mask all hoses and electrical connections at the starter and alternator. Glow plug connections are protected with rubber tubing slipped over them. I will also mask the face of the drive hub where the drive disc connect. Thanks kshansen, I will tape over the ID tag. I would have overlooked that detail if not for your post. That water bottle is a press fit into the exhaust outlet.
Nitelite, One thing I was told is very important when painting a rebuilt engine for someone. Be sure to put a heavy coat of paint on the exhaust manifold. That way the guy you rebuilt it for can smell the paint burning off and know he had a rebuilt engine, kind of that new car smell! Then again you did this job for yourself so you know it's rebuilt so not as important!
I reakon this tractor is in for an easy and steady retirement,so I suppose that head may well be sound,but it's bothering me a tad as you've done such a 1st rate job.I know its not going out on hire 12 hours a day and it's not the end of the world to take it off again in the future,but think of all that lovely paint on the exhaust stack.......
Nitelite, Guess what I found on my back step when I got home from picking up light bulbs for the sidecar from NAPA? Came through just fine this time with only one small tear in the one corner! Glad someone could get some use out of it, just need to drop it of at the place I used to work and let the boss I borrowed it!
It sure did get there fast! I am glad that it survived the trip in one piece. Thanks again for the loan and making my job so much easier. I will find a way to return your kindness that is so rare in the world today. What is attached to your sidecar? My wife and I traveled on a Goldwing for fourteen years. I decided to sell it after I had the heart attack as the quickness of my reflexes took a hit. The circle that I cut out of the plywood for the packing of the seal installer got reused and fitted to serve as to cover the intake opening in the preceding pictures if you had not already spotted it. nicky, does yellow paint make yellow smoke? So long as it don't burn blue I am ok with that and it will be ok with me if I never see the inside of that head ever again. That is the plan! I am going out to start up the pressure washer.
Did granddad's model T have a nicotine addiction? I would have to try the head as well. The good thing , you will be the one running the loader and can keep an eye on things to see what's going on. It's time to discuss break in procedure. I've always run a new engine for an hour or so let it get to running temp and then go ahead and let her rip. I've seen lots of people rebuild farm tractors and baby them around , then they will use oil. My extended family were a Massey Ferguson dealer , they told me that people would lug those 1155s around and this caused numerous problems. The one with the big V8 perkins.
Old adage for Harley riders, buy a new one, ride it like you just stole it, won't ever burn oil and suspect that will hold true here too.
Well years back when we did a lot of our own engine work it was common for us to after assembling a engine to take it to the dealer and have it run in on their dyno. They would start it up and run to check for leaks then put a light load on it till it came up to operating temperature. Then if everything looked good they would gradually increase the load on it and in a few minutes it would be running flat under full load. After about an hour of this they might shut it down after a cool down period then check valve and injector settings and go at it again for another hour or so. I was told the worse thing you could do is run for too long at a light or no load, just get up to temp and put the load to it while keeping an eye on things. About the worse engines were the Detroits they would wet stack like crazy if not worked hard.
That one never made sense to me. If I was to steal something I'd drive nice and easy using signals and everything to not draw attention to myself, but understand the principal of running a machine hard without abusing it!
How to prep the engine for paint, Doing it my way. First, hook the pressure washer to a hot water supply. I had to put a T in the hot water line going to the dish washer. You can also connect a garden hose into the hot water heater drain if you can get to it. Move the engine to a good location to be cleaned and block it up off of the ground. Make sure the kids are out of the area. I wanted to clean the engine and the engine compartment at the same time. Get yourself a large jug of Fast Orange hand cleaner. Use a 1 1/2 " nylon sash paint brush to brush on the Fast Orange. Fast Orange is water activated so brush it onto a dry engine. Give it time to work and maybe brush more on the really greasy areas. Don't let it dry on the surface before pressure washing real close and good with the HOT water. Next. Spray on the other cleaner/degreaser that is pictured. I got it at Walmart. You can go ahead following the pressure washing and spray it on the already wet engine. Wait for it to work but don't let it dry before again pressure washing with the HOT water. The engine should be squeekey clean and not feel at all oily. Ready for paint.
You will use about half of the large jug of Fast Orange, The large size is $14.00. I think the degreaser was $6.00 and I used one bottle to do the engine and machine compartment. For a really dirty engine I would use two, and keep it wet longer before pressure washing. Previously, before I tore the engine down, I pressure washed it but was using cold water instead of the hot water. Don't buy this product from Walmart. It does not work too good so don't waste your money on it. Testing the paint and thinner for compatibility and drying time.
Which one? Everyone needs at least two sidecars right? Actually just "decommissioned" one, the ride to work one, Yamaha XS650. Too much road salt from the winters in NY and such. #1 outfit has a `92 Sportster pulling it, #2 outfit is in process of being assembled and is powered by a old Yamaha XS400, carbs are off getting cleaned as it has been sitting for a few years. Sorry to hear you had to stop riding but better safe than sorry! At least running that 951 it doesn't go as fast as the Wing and if someone gets in the way you probably are bigger than them!
Everything looked good this morning. The paint was mostly dry, just barely tacky. I proceeded with the engine and engine compartment painting. The parts did not crinkle using the Acetone but I cut back to a 5% reduction with the Acetone and then substituted mineral spirits for the other 5%. So I ended up thinning 10%. The Acetone actually etches the original paint and gives the new paint some tooth to make it stick better. I had trouble with the Acetone trying to dry the paint in the paint gun nozzle until I added the mineral spirits which slowed the drying time just enough to overcome the nozzle drying problem. I just painted the inside parts of the radiator housing that would be hard to get to with the engine and front radiator group installed. When the engine gets hot The paint on the exhaust manifold will become, "baked enamel". The engine has two coats of paint on it. One covered but two looked better because of some missed spots on the first coat. Too thick and the paint will tend to want to crack and peal off. The paint preforms as it should and covers really good. Just need a little drying time and we are done!
I only painted the front end mostly where things would be hard to get to after the engine is back in the frame. I can't imagine trying to brush all of this, but some do. You can buy the paint in spray cans but it would be awful thin and would take several cases. Everything that I painted was parts where half of the paint is lost because of the nature of the beast. I used 9/10 of the first gallon but the paint will go farther on flat surfaces. Two gallons will be real close and might get into three. I spent four hours masking and painting, including mixing and clean up of the equipment and paint gun when finished.
One final thing before instillation A new seal in the front of the torque converter, just behind the drive flange. After the through cleaning with the degreaser and hot water pressure washing it is to be realized that all oil, grease and other lubrication in every involved joint on the machine and engine has been washed away. Before use everything that moves has to be lubed or oiled as it will quickly wear if lubrication is neglected. I have made myself a list of, "don't forget" such as align the drive hub with the torque converter hub and shim engine as necessary. Connect batteries. Fill with oil, fill the fuel and oil filters. add hydraulic oil and coolant. turn the fuel valve on. Push the throttle forward a bit. Heat the glow plugs after purging the entire fuel system. Watch for immediate oil pressure and add coolant as the thermostat opens. Check for any leaks and work the hydraulics to purge system of any air.
Funny thing Nitelite, I thought your engine was a 3304, now I spot its a 330C ? also on the 2 pipes that come from the transmission to the front oil cooler there should be a valve control (check parts book) just before the pipes go vertical to climb upto the cooler, the bracket is there to bolt this valve section to, the pipe from the top of the trans' goes to the top of the cooler, the pipe from the bottom goes to the lower trans case. tctractors
Looking fantastic.
Thanks nicky It progressed from this, To this.
Thanks for the info on the pipes. I don't show a 330C listed as anything except the number for a cat excavator.
TC, Been away from 3304/6's for a while and 330's even longer. What do you see that says 330C instead for the 3304? I'm thinking it has something to do with the shape of the casting around the cylinders. Seems I recall the 3400 series was more squared off and the 330 series was more rounded? Thing is in Cat SIS for the 951C they only show a 3304??
It is the original engine as the serial numbers on the engine block match the numbers on the frame. Just tinkering today, giving the paint time to cure in the sun. I replaced the torque converter front seal and installed a new battery disconnect switch. The old switch was so stiff turning on and off it was bending my keys. I removed all of the masking. I checked the transmission cooler pipes and they do agree with Tony's provided routing from the trans to cooler. I can't believe that the PO or someone else painted the front of the radiator core. I will use a mild paint stripper on it before it goes back in the machine. It also needs the fins combed. I have one broken bolt to remove that bolts up the fan guard. I plan on installing the engine on Tuesday afternoon and finishing up on Wednesday. I am leaving for a ten day trip to Alaska on Saturday, the 30th. and would really like to see smoke before I go.
The engine is from what I can see a 330C not a 3304, the give away easy to spot thing is the water pump being high mounted, on the 3304 the water pump fits into the front of the gear case, I hope the valve length of the new valves and the old valves was checked as the 330c runs stems that are about a 3/16th shorter in hight (I think??) the 6 cylinder engine is the 333C found in D6C tractors in the U.K. up to around 1973/4,the engine rear mount bolting changed on the 951C so this shovel must be from the front scratch line of the C series around 1972-3, the important changes came with the F/Drive gear tooth count also the bevel gear and pinion tooth count. tctractors p.s. I was slow to spot this motor thing also it was set to poke out around 10 clicks less.
No tc, I did not check the total length of the valves. I am sure with the valve part numbers that I can find the specifications on the new valves to compare. I am thinking and racking my brain, what difference, hypothetically, would it make if the valves are indeed 3/16 shorter? All valves open and close according to the lift of the cam lobe. They adjusted to .015 intake and .025 exhaust with no extreme adjustment visible at the rocker arm. All valves seal and do not strike the valve guides. Pistons do not hit the valves as she turns over by hand smoothly with no tight spots knocks or bangs. I don't think the dwell would even change either. I have never seen a 330C but everything that I have on it says that it is a 3304. The water pump drives off of the front gear and bolts down to the block with four bolts. You have such vast knowledge and experience on these old machines that your opinion cannot be discounted either. Honestly, I don't know!
I couldn't stand it! I can't believe the engine went back so easily. I picked it up with the front loader on the ag tractor, drove straight in and lowered the engine to within 1/2 " off of the mounts, walked around and dropped all four mounting bolts in their respective holes and started their threads. No pulling, pushing or prying required. I put back the original shims but the front engine mount bushing was changed. I expect to spend some amount of time lining up the flexible drive hub with the torque converter, I expect that can't be too fun. I don't know how much time I will have to work on it tomorrow as it is Memorial day and I will attend a local event in honor of those who didn't make it back home. The bottom fell out of the sky just after the engine went in and the rain poured down. First task at next session is to get the loader arms back up in the air using the ag tractor bucket.
Nitelite, the engine is a 330C, the valve lift is the same as the 3304 at 330 thou, you have the early style rear engine mounting also your perforated front grill plates are early style like on the series B with the full plate hole punched, on the later series C there is a 4" top and bottom margin that is not hole punched (1 plate turned 180) I will check the valve part No, I might be wrong about the stem lenght??? but it is in my daft head for some reason that I always have to check this point before I fit new valves, I think there is 8 differing types of valves fitted to the 3304 engine by part No (Turbo non Turbo etc) the build year will be stamped on the R/Hand from sat in seat hard bar mount under the recoil cover, also possibly on the L/Hand side of the loader frame close to the top hinge pin of the turret, I would have said about this point before but I thought your engine was the 3304. tctractors
D333 was in 82A and 83A D6C motors in the 1960's .was a big ish lump.water pump was tied up with fan assembly. Big turbo . Don't know what else it fitted.
The D333c/D330c and 3304/3306 difference in appearance question comes up quite often. Main difference is the water pump and timing gear cover. Round timing gear cover and square water pump cover being the difference on the 3304/3306.
A 3304 would have its own engine serial number such as 78P and wouldn't be badged with the tractor serial number.
Nitelite, I did check the parts books and lucky enough the valves are not an issue on this late an engine build with the same valves in both the 330C and the 3304, although the engines look similar with the same bore -stroke etc the part changes are many. tctractors. p.s. if your parts book says on the front 951C powered by 3304 its the wrong parts book, the 2 pictures of engines O.M. put up show a 333C and a 3304.
Guess I've been wrong for years. I thought the 966C loaders we had used the 3306 engine. They all had the small four bolt cover for access to the fuel pump timing gear like the cover shown in the above D333C engine. Also they had the water pump mounted to the top of the timing cover like the D333 and the engine in Nitelite's machine. I was thinking the D333 engines went out with the 966B loaders. the large round cover and the front mounted water pumps I believe did not show up till the 966D and 980's
The 333C is easy to spot from the front as it has the Dampener front pulley ( another Lanchester design) the 330C runs the steel front pulley as it has the counter shafts to smooth things, the C bit on the end of the numbers is fairly important as there is 333 333B also the 333C all the engines are a good bit different. tctractors
That explains several things that occurred during the overhaul. All new parts fit just fine until I got around to installing the timing cover gaskets, they were wrong. I began checking other components yet to be installed and found that those gaskets were wrong also. I made a list of all needed gaskets by their Cat part numbers according to my parts book. It seemed to be all of the front group. I called Off Road Equipment and they sent me the individual gaskets by the numbers that I provided according to my parts book. No cost was involved or explanation as to why the gaskets were wrong. Looking at the picture of the 3304 that O.M. posted, my left over gaskets fit a 3304 and therefore were wrong for my 330C. I will look for those numbers that tc is talking about. My parts manual that I got with the machine, and ordered the individual gaskets from is actually for a 951-B, my loader is a C model for sure. What ever it is, it looks nice now and maybe it will run! Thanks guys.
Early 966C's used the D333c, until it became the 3306 in about 1972, so the majority of them did have the 3306.
My parts book. It seems to apply to my 951-C and has served well for ordering parts by the part number for my C model loader. One of the repair manuals from my set of manuals. I depended upon its information and specifications during the overhaul and had no known problems at this point. It is supposed to rain all day tomorrow, if not, I may get to see some smoke tomorrow afternoon!
The 86J series D330c ran until s/n 2597 before changing to the 3304 series. The 3304 manual may be very similar but is not correct for the D330c.
Nitelite, with your panel No 86J2188 that might make it around the November 1971 to January 1972 possibly on build date, the early kit is hard to pin down on build due to record loss, the best way is to find the build date stamp on the hard bar R/Hand side from seat (under the track frame cover) or look at the side of the loader frame L/Hand from seat near the top pin location, its often stamped in these locations, or do the Numeral Code on the big bits as this will pin down the year/month. tctractors
For anyone not familiar with the Numeral Code dating system used by Caterpillar on all major cast parts, here's the explanation. Take the letters NUMERALKOD and replace them with the numbers 0123456789 respectively. Each casting has as a minimum the Part Number and 6-digit Code right underneath it, e.g. UA NK DR. The 3 pairs of letters represent the date the casting was originally produced in the form dd/mm/yy, so our example translates as 15/07/94. I usually estimate the manufacture date of a machine as anything up to 6 months after the date of the newest casting I can find on it, maybe back in the 1970's it could be more than that because "Just in Time" supply never existed.
951B production run for 1972 is s/n 86J1992 to 2597. Became C model at s/n 2598 with 3304.
Rain, Rain, go away! QUOTE=Old Magnet;566472]951B production run for 1972 is s/n 86J1992 to 2597. Became C model at s/n 2598 with 3304.[/QUOTE] That explains why my 951-B parts manual is correct when I use it to order parts bu the cat part number. Stick em up! I got the hydraulic lines hooked up to the hydraulic pump. Engine is aligned with torque converter, bolted in its mounts and torqued down. I spent hours trying to get the rubber drive disk bolted up. Firstly, I had to run a tap through all sixteen holes in the new drive disk. Poor job of tapping the holes at the manufacture process. I had all of the disk in and most bolts started on both sides of the of the disk in before I realized that the threads needed chasing because the bolts would thread into the holes and hit a snag at about four turns and long before the bolts were tight. It is really a tight place to work in, never mind standing on my head all the while. I finally decided to pull the belly pan and get easier access as the belly pan needs cleaning out anyway. Dropping that nasty dreaded pan took all of fifteen minutes once I made the decision to get it done. About the time I pulled the pan from underneath the machine, here came another down pour. The drive disk and rest of the hook up is on hold. At least I have the radiator and front group in the shop and can work on broken bolts and combing fins.
So it would seem that this 951C is a late 951B and not a Series C??? Nitelite when I bought my shovel in all the Brambles I thought it was a Series C, after I chopped my way through all the jungle I could see clearly it was a "B" it made me sick in the innards to look at the stickers dapped on it telling me it was a 951C was a choker moment, it was not until getting the shovel back to the "Nerve Centre" and being told roughly the date of build that I began to take a shine to the sickly child, I will admit to buying 2 more 951's to cut up for parts to Tart mine up, 1 of them was 12th from last built of the 951C series (69H France) that would possibly have been a more viable shovel to rebuild as the build No's are greater, as things worked out I am very happy with my B series as it was the first Power Shift 951 of a build that spanned over 10 years, be careful ordering parts for it unless you have the correct parts book as the transmission and F/Drives have lots of changes. tctractors another B series owner that looked at stickers. p.s. that hole in the belly guard has a bolt in cover, the D4 dozer is a lot harder to bolt up the drive on.
Live and learn! My D4E has the short drive shaft with the universal joint under the floor plate. I don't care if the 951 is a B or C so long as I can order the right parts for it. Every identification plate on the engine and loader say that it is a C model. My two children will inherit the farm, which is their home place, and as I have no plans to get rid of the loader, I have told them that the loader goes with the place. I will sell the D4-E dozer when I am finished with it. It is a fine old machine sitting on a bran new SALT undercarriage. I am in no hurry to part with the old gal. After dropping the belly pan the drive disk were a piece of cake to install and bolt up. I will never again attempt to replace the disc from the top side. It can be done because I did it, I just could not tighten the bolts because of defective threading in the new disc. Time wise and skinned knuckles, I could have dropped the belly pan to start with and come out way ahead, not to mention I needed to replace the torque converter gage and sending unit and clean out the pan to prevent fire. Easy job from below after removal of the pan.
Up comming work to be done. While I was under the loader I took some shots of the broken bolts holding the track frames. There will be more that will break when I try to remove the frames to replace the sprocket rims and track chains. The left side are not broken yet. I have been shooting them with PB Blaster for a few weeks now. The heads are missing on the right side. I will see if can weld washers and nuts on them and back them out. All rollers look good. I might swap them around, especially the front on each side to get longer wear. The chains are not all that bad, but the sprockets are shot so it will get new rails and sprocket rims at the same time. I will also rebuild the track adjusters while it is down.
Still would be wise to have the parts book that actually covers your s/n. As tc says, they were frequently making changes.
Nitelite , it looks great. The D4 looks to be in good condition as well. Maybe post up some pics of the u/c , the link height looks fairly worn. I bet when you get it done it will last you a long while. Engine work looks as good as any I've ever seen. Post a video of cranking it up if you can.
I also have to comment on your resolve and effort Nitelite to keep on chipping away at the CAT, lots of people loose their steam on these tasks as they can be very demanding on the Skin and the head jelly, so well done that Man for sticking at it, on the B, C, thing its of no big deal unless like me I peeped through the brambles and had it in my head that the thing was a C series, the man I bought it off had a low-loader driver sniffing around the thing trying to buy it, so I put a good amount of speed into my spending out antic's, as things are I would not sell or swap my shovel for anything other than a 977 and then it would want to be a cracker. again well done Nitelite tctractors
Success! I decided that I really would like to hear the old gal fire up before I had to leave for Alaska on Saturday morning. I put in a long day today, Thursday. I got the radiator and front group back in. The fan is installed, all hydraulic pipes, transmission cooler and water hoses are hooked back up with new hoses and fluids have been added and topped off. All that remained was bleeding the fuel lies and firing it up. For a one man easy job I hooked up a 12 volt pump inline from the fuel tank line to the fuel line inlet pipe. I backed lawnmower close enough to the loader to hook the pump wires to its battery and turned the pump on until I heard the pump start laboring signaling that the fuel system was now under pressure. At that point I cut the pump off and cracked the lines and bled all four fuel lines at the pre combustion chambers. I disconnected the pump and hooked up the fuel line to the engine. I then climbed into the cab and hit the starter. The engine fired right up as if it was being restarted just after a lunch break! I let it idle for about fifteen minutes while I rechecked all fluids and let it warm up good. All gages are well within normal range and the engine has that really sweet diesel rattling sound to it. I ran it at full throttle for a short time and checked for any leaks, all is well! I shut her down as it had gotten dark and will still need to put the fan guards, front grill and hood back on in the morning. Smoke coming from the stack! Sounds good, music to my ears! Exhaust seems to be running pretty clear. Immediate oil pressure and all gages looking good with no blow by. The harbor freight pump with hoses from a washing machine being used to tap inline to the fuel supply.
Dickjr and tctractors, thanks for your kind words. It is people on this forum like you that don't mind sharing knowledge, and in the case of kshansen lending me the needed special tools, and other people like Nige that enables me to carry on with my resolve. I bit off a pretty good chunk when I bought the 951. I still have a mound of work to do to her in order to make it into the tractor that I want it to be. I bought it for a project, to clean out my lake and do some more work here on the place. It became the project! Hopefully, when I get the new track chains and sprockets installed and plough through the broken bolts, I can get back to the plan of draining and clean out of the lake. The dump truck is sorted and up to the task. I still need to find out why the winch on the D4E don't work. Somewhere along the drive line the shaft that drives the winch does not rotate. The winch will need to come off of the tractor to find the problem. I may need that winch if I get the loader stuck in the lake no matter, it needs fixing. The plan is to drain the lake in June and clean it out in July or August. I need mud that is not too runny but not thick enough to stick in the loader bucket or dump truck. I plan on digging my way into the shallow end and work towards the dam. The lake has a solid rock bottom but is covered with years of silt. When I built the lake in 1974 dammed up a spring fed creek. I drained it and hired it cleaned it out in 1982. They used a 955 and a single axel dump truck best I can remember. It took a little more than seven, 12 hour days to accomplish the cleanout. The saga is sure to continue. Tony, I have access to the puller and tooling to pull the rear sprockets but I am considering cutting the rims off with a plasma cutter and welding the rims without pulling the sprockets. What is your take on replacing the rims? I will reseal the track adjusters while I am at it.
Well done. It's a great feeling when your hard work pays off.
Nitelite, without going back through pages of posts are you buying complete replacement sprockets or just rims..? If you are buying complete sprockets it would seem to be a waste to scrap a large part of them without even using them if you get my drift. If you are just buying rims then I'm fairly sure based on your postings to date that between yourself and your brother you can cobble up a fixture for a plasma cutter that enables you to get a true concentric cut so that the rim on the existing sprocket can be removed without the need of pulling the sprocket itself. The question I'm asking myself is how easily can you get to the back side of the rim with the welding electrode, because I'd imagine the weld will be a 45deg fillet on both sides between the rim and the sprocket hub.
As the would say on The A-Team: “I love it when a plan comes together.”:salute Good job, now don't get your self too tired out before the Alaska trip! Ken
Nitlite, if you're planning on welding from one side, your chances of the sprocket not pulling out of shape are slim. No doubt someone will have done it, but if you pull the sprocket and weld from both sides, you'll put less total heat in than welding from one side, as your two small "vee's" will only need half as much weld to fill up as the one big one. It would be a shame to come this far and have two distorted sprockets.
This might be of some use to you.....
Nitelite, I have located the document above in electronic format and can email it to you if you want it.
I think your doing a great job on the old cat. My car 941 had the same bolts broke off. it was a job for a fat guy like me but i drilled and tap them for new bolts. Wonder why it it just broke the right side ones?
Probably because it knows that I am right handed and have lost the use of my right hand, Hee Hee. Seriously, the machine spent its entire life loading top soil on to dump trucks. I suspect that the most probable cause is that the owner/operator of the last twenty five years turned in the same direction every time with a full bucket while traveling forward. It is much easier on the UC to turn while backing up. Nige, I got the cutting and welding instructions ok and can print them off. Thanks. I did buy the sprocket rims only, not a complete sprocket. $185.00 each vs more than $800.00each for the complete sprocket. No, I don't really know what I am doing as far as cutting and welding but I will know before I am finished with the job. I attended a night welding school class, twenty hours a week, for more than a year on my GI Bill after I got out of the Army in 1970. I completed 360 hours but about all that I remember is that you can burn yourself if you are not careful. I think I will go out and install the fan guards and the hood and maybe clean up that nasty belly pan. I may elect to paint the underside of the hood and lower side covers before instillation, depends on how good it cleans up with the Fast Orange and hot water pressure washer. There is not a lot of doubt of what will happen when I try to remove these bolts. I think some amount of heat will be my friend' A whole lot of PB Blaster over a period of weeks can't hurt either. P.O. must have never checked the condition of the bolts. This kind of work should keep me updated in the latest choices of strong words.
Tony, or anyone else that might know. The bolts pictured above have thick washers, or more like spacers just under the bolt heads. Is this something that has been added because maybe the bolts were too long or were the spacers used by Cat when the loader was built? Should I reuse them or just buy the correct length bolt and use lock washers. I assume that the bolts are grade 8. Will it be safe to use proper cribbing and remove both track frames at the same time or is it better to do them one at a time? I will be working on hard ground but not concrete. My cribbing will be 30" pcs of 8"x 8" cross ties. I plan on driving the loader up onto two full length cross ties to get some added head room and take care of the underneath bolt issues first and before cribbing up to remove the track frames and doing the sprocket work. Ideas?
Those spacers look very much like original equipment to me. Taking a S/N range from 86J1-875 the Parts Manual for the track frame calls out 1D-4609 (3"x 3/4") bolts plus 6K-5640 spacers. The spacers are 1.44" OD x 0.78" ID x 1"long. Your machine may differ and TBH I can't remember the Serial Number.
All the frame bolts have hard spacers under them other than the inner bolts that you have already lost, these have hard washers but behind them the the frame is shimmed out, the 2 sorts of spacers are specific to location with the bolts needing to be nothing less than pucker CAT as these fasteners get hell of a time, the fasteners near the sprocket have the wide flat spacers, the reason the spacers are used is to improve the clamping tension given by the longer bolts over a wider area (long bolts stretch more) tctractors
This is something many don't understand. Not sure I can word this real clear but I'll try: A bolt is in effect a spring! Using a longer bolt spreads the springing action over a longer distance. Just think if you stretch a bolt that is clamping something 1 inch thick enough past the tightened point and this is enough to cause it to break then replace with equal strength bolt that is 1 inch longer but put a 1 inch space under it's head and again tighten it to the same clamping force it will now need to be stretched beyond this point about twice as far before it will get to the point it will fail. One real common place besides this track frame you may see this to an even bigger scale is on many exhaust manifold studs. There you may see 3 or 4 inch spacers used on little 3/8 studs. Helps handle the expansion and contraction from the heat and cool down cycles.
Khanson. Our d8 had spacers like that on the exhaust manifold. It kept coming loose so mechanic did away with them, it still comes loose. Not a very good mechanic ha ha
Was he using the right studs and locking nuts? I know on the 3400 series engines they upgraded the studs and also driller out the holes in some sections of the manifold oversize. Also there have been a few different versions of the manifolds, some with bellows like sections to allow freer movement. Last 3408 I had the pleasure of dealing with broken studs for the manifold we needed get the dealer with a special drill guide and special cobalt drill bit to remove 3 of the studs. Before going to the drill jig he had spent several hours welding on nuts and washers to no avail. First time I saw that weld on nuts method fail. They just did not want to move. Could be due to the fact this engine was run for over a year with a couple broken studs, not a bad exhaust leak but just enough to apparently pack in the carbon to lock things tight.
Cat studs have what's called a taperlock design on one end which is why they can be hard to get out. If you look at one, you'll see a letter "K" stamped into one end. This is the end which doesn't go onto the casting. As far as exhaust manifold studs go, I've had better luck with them by tightening them to the specified torque when installing. (Not that I'm suggesting anyone else doesn't use a torque wrench of course). When they're just hand tightened, they seem to fail at early hours with a regularity which soon becomes boring.
I'd be looking at flange head grade 8 bolts for the inside frame mounts (much larger area clamping) and moving up to grade 9 in the top of the solid equalizer bar. You can see where the inside frame regular bolts have countersunk themselves.
That was a nice trip to Alaska, but all things must end. I got the sheet metal and bucket back on the 951. I have let it run at various rpms under no load for more than an hour. I put it to work this morning and dug up a thirty inch white oak stump. That was a chore and pushed the machine to its limit. The engine sounds good, runs very well, and has plenty of power. I did get some slobbering. I think it may be left over from before the overhaul and burning out of the muffler and exhaust pipe. It is in the back of my mind and I am watching out for any symptoms that might show up as a result of the crack in the head. There are no bubbles in the radiator. There is no miss in the engine, cold or hot. After an hours hard work in 90 degree weather at wide open throttle all gages stayed well within normal limits. Next project is the undercarriage. The track chain did slip a tooth on the sprocket this morning and I can't put up with that. No more hard work for the old gal until I get the new rims and chains on her. Temperature has been in the 90s the past few weeks. I am thinking I will need to put up some canvas for shade to work in.
Glad you had a safe trip, Nitelite. Alaska's on my bucket list of places to go, among many lol! Been missing your updates. Glad to hear you got the ole gal fired up and running good. I'll be envious of your new undercarriage. Wish we had new rails, but for what we have left to do, it'll probably last us a lifetime. Looking forward to see your undercarriage project and pond cleanout.
Fill your bucket list Boone. Do it with family if you can. You only go around once. Boone, I have no choice in the matter of the undercarriage. With a sprocket slipping on the chain I don't want to destroy a final. Cutting and welding the rims will be paramount for me in that job. My old chains will come off without even driving the master pin out. Shoe swapping is just a matter of time with the rattle gun as the hardware is new. The broken bolts may be a pita but the new chains bolt up. You have nothing at all to envy about my old iron. I think you have a wonderful machine as a result of hard work and refusal of the family to quit. The brute strength of those old machines amazes me. I enjoy reading your thread and keep up with it.
Now that is a serious snow blower. Several men died constructing this R/R bridge. Due to Alaska's short days, it was mostly built after the dark in 1889-1901. It took two years to build the railroad up and over the White Mountain Pass meant to haul miners 110 miles to the Yukon. By the time the railroad was finished, the gold rush was over. Down town Skagway
My feeble beginnings on the undercarriage My working slow in 98 degree heat. Unloaded rims and chains from the trailer and rolled them out on the ground. Backed the loader up on to two pieces of cross ties and blocked up the rear with cross tie cribbing. pushed down with the bucket in order to raise the front of the loader, Track chains clear the ground about eight inches. Blocked up under the front of the machine with cross tie cribbing and relieved most of the down pressure on the bucket. The old gal looks pretty stable in that position. Safe to remove the track shoes, chains, frame rails and sprocket rims I hope. I will also be using the D4E blade under the rear of the loader before I crawl under the loader to deal with broken frame bolts.
laying out chains, cutting cross ties, getting the loader in the air. About 5 hours Unloading trailer. In the previous pictures you can see how tight I was running the track chains but the sprockets were wore down enough that it was still slipping the chain on the teeth when in a hard pull. I think that the po might have replaced the chains at one time but not the sprockets as the chains are not all that bad. I intend on removing the track shoes first and then collapsing the adjustment and push back front idler. I suspect that I can then remove the chains without separating the master link. I will re seal the adjusters while I am there. The track frames will give trouble according to the looks of the really pitted and rusted bolts. I will just have to deal with the broken bolts, one at a time as they break and as I run across them. I plan on using a Plasma cutter mounted to the frame to cut the old rims off as the sprocket is turned on its hub. I can get to the front and rear of the sprocket to do the welding while the sprocket is still mounted to the machine. I expect to take adequate time to re mount the rims square and plumb using good welding practice while trying to avoid any distortion. I am thinking 7018 rods and a Lincoln Ranger 5 stick welder. Sounds too simple! What am I overlooking?
6.125 pitch makes for close together tooth arrangement anyway. 7018 is a good choice, would consider heavy wire MIG if it was inside a shop, weld on alternating sides of the rim to get it placed with 1-2" 'tacks', get all squared up then perform a fill in between welds and final with a full circumference cover weld.
My welding will be done outside. I plan on three tacks with my mig, 120 degrees apart, then switch to the stick when it is all squared up. I spent the afternoon cleaning out the track pads so as to be able to get at the bolts. The clay around here packs in and dries like concrete. It took me 3 1/2 hours to clean 44 track shoes. I will get the rest of them tomorrow afternoon when my shade returns. Chipping with a hammer and chisel and then using a pressure washer to clear anything that is left. Starting the engine to rotate the tracks for cleaning.
The track pitch on 951C = 6.91" early B,and C, can be 6.75"pitch? when using the plasma cutter make sure the earth is on the rim tooth area, best of luck. tctractors
Good point Tony. The last thing you want is the current going through the bearings in the final drive when you're working. Nitelite, I know you have an air compressor. Is there any way you can borrow a needle peening gun..? It would make removing the slag from your stick welds a doddle but the best thing it brings to the table is that if you beat the bejasus out of the weld with the needle gun while it's still hot you will be stress-relieving it and have less likelihood of either the weld pulling the sprocket rim out of true and/or leaving induced stresses in the replacement rim that could potentially cause future cracking.
Like one of these? http://www.harborfreight.com/air-needle-scaler-1108.html Probably not up to shop use but for a one time project like this one could use then scrap when done. Also handy for cleaning off the dry clay on the pads and such!
Thanks Tony and Nige. I just might go by Harbor Freight and pick up a peening gun to clean hard clay from the shoes, remove slag and peen the welds. I had not thought of that.
I never thought of using it for cleaning the track shoes either ......... The use of a needle gun was included in every SOP for structural repair welding we ever wrote. You have to peen the weld when it's really hot and do it until it is 100% pockmarked with the imprint of the needles.
I used the one at work for all kinds of cleaning, worked great for cleaning around nuts when removing bolt on cutting edges then cleaning the packed in stone dust under the edges. Also great for getting rust scale out of places like battery boxes and the crap under the floor mats.
The sprocket rims were $185.00 each. I have not found any sprocket inserts for sale anywhere. The 200 amp welder might do the job for you. Some welders on HEF might chime in on the subject. I would think that the duty cycle on your welder would need to be pretty good for it to be useful on that sort of job. I have a Lincoln 180 amp AC/DC but I would not attempt welding the sprockets with it because of the short duty cycle. I will get a much better feel for what the old chains are worth when I get them off of the machine. Hopefully I can get something for them. Freight to ship to Mo. would be pretty expensive. I am thinking that they would need to be sold locally in order to become a reasonable purchase.
Well sounds like I am wrong then.i thought you could get sprocket inserts for it.guess I will have to get some like you did.Also I do not except you to give the rails away, but if they are cheep enough I would come get them. The tracks on my 941 must be at -10% wear.lol mine are worn through the bushings.
My bad on the pitch, I dyslexed again and read the 931 series chart, correction taken.
Some progress today. Nige, I did pick up a needle peening gun from Harbor Freight. Sale price with coupon was $39.00 I got in about four hours working time in today. It is just too hot for me to work other than after 5:00 PM. Here I have about half of the shoes off. The 3/4 impact gun works well with a ten gallon tank in the air line close to the gun. My hardware is fairly new and the bolt heads are not worn down, That helps. All bolts came out easy enough and all shoes are removed. I loosened the track adjuster pressure bolts and drained the grease. I placed a piece of 2" pipe in between the sprocket teeth and track chain then backed up the sprocket to pull the idler back. I had plenty of room to just lift the chain off of the front idler with the ag tractor and removed the chain without the need for splitting the track. Next I will remove the adjuster pistons and re seal them. .
Great job. Going to be better than new when done.
As far as I know this is still a good source for inserts.
So far, so good. Rock guards and track frames are next to go. I dread dealing with the broken bolts and more will break I am sure.
Nice progress. I had a 951c I got rid of a years back. In seeing this, i wish I would have kept it as it could have had new life. I had one rack tensioner that didn't work but the right side final drive went out and I sold it. Had I found these forums sooner i may have been braver!
I don't even want to consider the work involved in pulling down a final drive on my 951. I guess that if it did happen, I would attempt to fix it. I would hate to get rid of the machine after doing so much work on it. When your final drive went out what was the symptom.
Under any sort of push or steep incline it would start slipping/popping. At first I thought it was jumping teeth on sprocket but had someone watch it for me. On relatively flat ground and slight uphills it worked ok. The guy who bought it said it was about $1500 in parts and he tore it down and fixed it last I heard from him. I think one of the gears inside had some teeth break maybe? It also was getting to leaking oil really bad, the track tensioner, most cylinders needed repacking, needed a few new pins, and needed new muffler so all added together i didn't feel that ambitious. Talk about a bear to load on trailer with only one track really pulling well. Again, had I saw the progress you all have made I may have been a little more willing to try but i just traded up to a 953 recently. I plan on starting a thread soon as I loved reading your's and boone's threads.
Ouch, Pinhead now I wish that I had gotten someone to watch and make sure that the chain was slipping actually on the sprocket. I am pretty sure that is what was happening. The sprocket teeth on the left side are really worn down. They would actually cut you, they are that sharp. The right side sprocket is not as bad as the left. I think the po turned the same direction for many years, (25), loading dump trucks with top soil. When I bought the 951 I was really naïve. I did not know as much about sizing up the wear on a machine as I thought I did. I am paying my stupid tax. If all goes well I should end up with a decent machine that will satisfy my needs for the rest of my life. It has been a major project to say the least. Not something recommended for the faint of heart for sure. I am glad that you are enjoying the thread. Could be that someone else could benefit from what I am learning the hard way. Boone also paid his stupid tax, LOL. Now it sounds like Boone and the whole family are enjoying the fruits of their labor. I bet you really love the 953. From what I read, they are tough machines and good tractors if they have been treated well and maintained.
I feel good that there are only four broken bolts. Looks like I will end up with four broken 3/4 roller frame bolts. Not bad considering that I removed twenty four of them. Some drill work and some torch work should take care of it tomorrow. It came a downpour today and it is just too muddy around the machine to continue. I lack three bolts but I have to get under the machine to get at them. It don't seem safe with wet cribbing sitting on muddy ground and working with a welder and electric grinder. Expecting 100 degree weather the rest of the week, I'll let it dry up some as I am in no hurry.
Mopar 65, If you are interested in the track chains send me a pm. You have first shot at them. If you can find the sprocket teeth inserts to build up your sprockets the rails should put you in business and last for a while. They look to have a lot of wear left on them. They are 6.91 pitch and contain 39 links per side. They are not SALT. It is not all that expensive to have the pins and bushings turned now that the shoes are removed from the chains and they have not ever been turned. I forget what the chains measured but if you look back early on this thread I measured them for wear and posted the result. I may have ran the machine ten hours since then.
Nitelite, I am new to the forum after recently acquiring a Hough loader and stumbled upon your thread while roaming around the various sections. Read through it all the last 2 days and I must say you've done great work! I look forward to your updates
Welcome to Hef and my thread Gd1. I am sure that you will enjoy the loader. What do you plan to do with it? How about posting some pictures of your machine and keep us posted.
Thank you Nitelite for the warm welcome. The main plan for the loader is winter snow removal at home, but it will require some work (head gasket, a few tires) before I can put it to work. I will be sure to create a thread and post pictures in the next few weeks when I return from work!
LOL, stupid tax is expensive, but the lesson hard learned is priceless. Like you said, threads like this are worth it if they can help someone else avoid that kind of "tax". Also, look forward to seeing your 953, Pinhead. And your Hough loader, Gd1.
Sorry for the delay in answering your pm Mopar 65. I really got busy but I did just answer your pm so you've got mail. This first picture is of the left sprocket that I heard slipping and therefore caused me to stop using the machine and replace the chains and sprockets. This is the right sprocket which has a little more meat on the teeth, It was not to the point of slipping yet. Hard to see much but this is a picture of the worn side of the bushings. Also worn side of the bushings. I did not separate the chains.
I thought that I was ready to dismount the track frames but I am lacking something and have a question. The frames are unbolted and loose except in the rear. I removed the four 3/4 bolts that connect the roller frames at the extreme rear but they don't want to give at all where they encircle the drive sprocket cover. It looks to be that the only thing holding is corrosion around the two dowel pins Am I right about the only thing needing to be done is to get a bigger hammer to separate the partial circle around the final housing? I used quite a bit of leverage and that got me nowhere. Penetrating oil is applied and I am giving it some time to work. I don't want to hit it hard enough to bust a housing. What about heat, so close to the bearing? All four bolts are out I think that it is just stuck on the two dowels visible in the picture.
The 2nd photo on your post #581 above doesn't look like a factory weld. I'm sure you are planning something better than that when you install the replacements.
Nige, I when I got out of the Army in 1970 I went to welding classes on my GI bill. I completed the course and got my certificate. I have done some welding along the way. I have an arc welder and a mig welder. I am going to borrow a much larger engine driven welder to make the weld on the sprocket. I judge my welding ability as really rusty after so little experience in the last fifteen years or so. The first thing I have to determine is if my pacemaker/defibrulator is going to allow me to even strike an arc. I am on my fourth implanted unit. I tried welding with earlier units and they shocked me pretty bad. Hopefully my new medical device is a little more advanced. It won't take long to find out. In that case I will be hiring a welder. If I can make a weld on the new sprocket at least as good as the existing weld, I will be happy, the existing weld held up and outlasted the sprocket. If my weld is straight, true, and strong but an't pretty, I'll paint it yeller and get it in the mud real quick, LOL.
Well i called the phone number and found out i have the last straight 941 loader cat made before they came out with the 941B. Well they have the sprocket inserts for 275.50+ 25 for shipping. which is the way i am going to go.I would rather get the full sprocket like what Nitelite got, but i do not trust my self to get it welded on straight.lol But really wanted to say thanks for the info. Thanks Bobby
Thanks for the feedback. Good to know the source is still around. It's a lot of welding but that method has been used for a long time.
It took me two days, off and on, working in the 100 degree heat but I finally got the roller frames off at the rear of the tractor. Heating the dowels wouldn't move it. Heat and an air chisel at the flange base barely phased it. Also tried a huge sledge. I had to burn straight down on the dowels and burn them to half of their original height to get any movement on the dowels at all.. The tractor is stable with no roller frames. I just just need to cutoff the sprocket rims. I moved roller frames inside the shop to deal with the broken bolts as I have an air conditioned shop.
I would have to really think about that one Mopar. If you weld each insert on both sides and both ends you are talking about a 12" continuous weld for each insert. Each sprocket has thirty teeth. Now multiply that by two sprockets. You are talking 60 feet of continuous weld. Also consider that if your sprocket teeth are flat worn out how well is the insert going to fit down into the gullets. Seems to me like you would end up heating each insert and pounding it down snug to follow the inside tooth contour. Sprocket rims are only $185.00 each. from Cat classic delivered to your nearest Cat dealer for pick up. If you do not want to remove your roller frames just cut a quarter of the new replacement rims out of the circle to fit them over the rail and then weld them back together on the sprocket. That is what I would have done if not for the broken bolts that I needed to deal with. Mopar, I got your pm. If you need time that will work for me but please let me know if you happen to change your mind as I offered you first shot at the chains. If you inquire here on the thread there will be people who can tell you if they will fit your machine and most anything else that you need to know.
OK i should be able to let you know in a few days. If its ok i will post some pics on your post showing my sprockets and my very worn out chains.lol
Pictures are always good. From what I can tell the 951-B-and C carry the same track. tctractors and others would know better than I http://www.ritchiespecs.com/specifi...der&make=Caterpillar&model=951C&modelid=93222
The track chains fitted to the 941 are 6.75" pitch early series with 9/16" bolts later with 5/8" bolt holes, you can drill out to the 5/8 bolt spec without to much trouble other than a brain numbing task, I think Nitelite's 951B is fitted with the 6.91" pitch link, the rollers are different as well, the 951B was first fitted with the 6 3/4" track chain, the 951C being fitted with the 6.91" chain this was retro fitted to the B series when renewal of the track groups was due. tctractors
ok here are some pictures if i can get them to post. i dont thinki these are the tracks that came with it from the factory. to me the right side track looked like it might of been a slat track at one time. i say this becasue it has a little plug in the center of the bushing, i guess thats how they put the oil in. ok here are the pics. thanks Bobby
a few more
Mopar, I can see why you need some uc work done. I think that your sprockets are about as bad as mine. The design of your sprockets will be easier than mine to rebuild with new rims because they are have spokes. I have read about people cutting those spokes with a grinder equipped with a cut off wheel. Also not so much to weld between the spokes. My sprockets are pretty well solid. In the pictures it looks like you have a single bar grouser on one side and a rebar grouser welded on the other side, it may just be the way the picture looks. Also, one track is SALT. You can't tell about the other side because the nipples would be on the inside and therefore not visible in the picture. Could be that you have a basically good old cat that needs some good old TLC. I know that it is bad business to run a new sprocket rim and a used track chain but I think that my old chains would have run a long time on a good sprocket, especially if that is the only way you can see to get the old gal going again. I just chose to do the sprockets and new SALT chains at the same time. What size are your track bolts? Are they 3/4 bolts with a 15/16 head? My old chains are a little snakey but the pins are a long way from wearing through the bushings and should have plenty of adjustment on a new sprocket rim. You would need to judge the wear for yourself. Now, you are asking yourself why I did not reuse my chains and just change sprocket rims. I am well past my prime and my farm is my children's home place. The farm will be left to the children and the loader, along with the other equipment, goes with the place. I have in mind much more than just patching it up.
The way you are fixing up that Cat your grandkids will be still using it to clean out the pond when they retire!
That is very noble of you. Kind of wish everyone in your situation thought like you.
well i think for somebody that says they are past there prime you are doing one hell of a job and i hope i have that kind of drive when you get to the point that you are at. I am only 44 years old. but my body feels like i am 88.lol Oh i saw you posted you was in the army? well from one fellow solider to another i salute you. I did 12 years in the Army reserves and got out as a SGT. what MOS was you? i had 2 63H20 track mechanic and 63W20 heavy wheel truck mechanic .OK back to the track loader after getting stuck a few times i was the one that welded the grouser bar on. that stuff cost me close to 400 dollars to do both sides. I was going to buy new pads and bolts for it but thought it would of been a waist of money at the time with the used tracks. I am not sure about the bolt size i will have to pull one out and see/ yes the old girl needs some TLC ts just i dont have the money right now to give it to here. I have already replaced all the recoil springs, yolks etc. also i need to stop postings stuff about my track loader on your post becasue i have got it way off track. lol but keep up the great work and i look forward to reading your repairs and more pics please. Thanks Bobby
Bobby, No problem with your posting, thanks for the comments and pictures. If I can help you in any way just let me know. As far as the MOS in the Army, I also had several. I was a truck driver, an MP, a game warden, and then a tactical vehicle mechanic. My pads, as you can see, are triple grouser. With the clay that we have around here the grousers stay packed with hard mud so they are the same as slick.
Thanks Ken. That is a nice thought to ponder!
Taking care of broken bolts with every method available. Spent quite q few hours removing broken bolts. Drilling, heating, welding on washers and nuts. Whatever it takes. I bought a cheap set of Harbor Freight bits and they eat grade 8 bolts like butter. I was shocked, the bits are soft enough that they will bend with side pressure and not break off in the hole. All of the broken bolts are out and threads restored as needed. Now I can concentrate on rebuilding the track adjusters and cutting the sprocket rims off.
Like Bill Scranton the welder who retired a few years back from the quarry I just retired from told me once when I was fighting some broken bolts in a crusher bowl, "Just remember, You just have to be smarter than the broken bolt!" Well that and more stubborn! Have a feeling you are more of the first and a bit of the latter one!:notworthy
Just keep on keepin on! I have the roller frame laying on its side in the shop. The three 5/8" bolts are the ones located under the tractor that attach the roller frame to the loader frame. The first thing that I did was to grind the broken bolts level with the surface as shown. Next, I drill through the bolt and out the other end. At this point I don't know what method I will use to remove the bolt but once drilled, I can not loose center of the bolt later on. Next I drill twice more with successive bigger bits. I try an ease out that usually won't work, even with added heat. Being really careful not to break the ease out off in the hole. Note how well the Harbor Freight drill bits cut the grade 8 bolts by the shavings they leave. The bits are not so hard that they break off in the hole. They just bend if you side load them. I have a nice set of titanium bits but the least side load and they will break off in the hole. 44 assorted bits were $7.00, what a deal! After drilling three times, trying a ease out, trying cherry red heat, welding on a nut and washer, nothing has worked on these three 5/8 bolts. In the morning I will burn them out with oxy acetylene down to the threads, then I will use a pick to unwind the threads out of the hole and then clean up the existing threads by running a tap through them. For the best outcome in a situation of this sort it is best to do such a delicate burn out operation when you are fresh and have plenty of patients. If I fail to burn out the bolts and clean up the threads then I will drill and tap oversize to 3/4". I would rather not have to do that. Sometimes you come out better to just cut the lights, lock the door behind you and go to the house before you screw up something and make it unfixable. Tomorrow is all mine and a new game begins, old man VS machine!
The three 5/8" bolts that I am currently working on are shown on page 36 of this thread in post #527. By far, they are the toughest to deal with that I have encountered.
nitelight that's what i did. me 941 had the same 3 bolts broke off. oh oh course i had to do mine with the roller frame still attached to the trackloader. after i drilled out all the bolt holes, i could not find my 5/8th tap. so i said the heck with it and drilled and taped them f0or 3/4 bolt.well i must of did something right, because that was last summer and they haven't feel out yet.lol
When you have them warm rather than hot try melting some candle wax round the thread area. It ought to wick into the threads themselves right down to the bottom and make removal a lot easier. You should be able to spot the melted wax being sucked into the threads if you watch closely.
No such luck Candle wax didn't stand a chance with these three. They just never gave up. I ended up drilling to 1/2" and running a 5/8" tap through to clear the original threads. It is done! This roller frame has no broken bolt issues. I just needed to drop it down to provide access to replace the sprocket rim. I will reseal the track adjuster where it sits. This rail is in the shop. It just takes time to get around to all of it. Someone has replaced the sprocket rims before. As can be seen in the picture, they did not remove the roller frames but rather cut the new rims at 10:00 and 5:00 and welded them back together as they welded them on to the old sprocket centers.
Mopar, if you drilled and tapped those three bolts while you were laying under your machine, my hat is certainly off to you. That probably required a lot of resting between sessions. Oh my aching arms!
I have noticed that there is a lot of interest in the procedure of replacing track adjuster seals. I am taking quite a few pictures of the operation as I repack the adjuster pistons. It is easy to see with the roller frames off and starting with the front idlers pushed all the way rearward. I hope to get this entire procedure all on one page which will be page 42 of this thread and beginning with post # 608.
Rebuilding Caterpillar hydraulic type track adjusters. Loosen the track adjuster relief valve about two turns. Push front idler all the way back by placing the draw bar pin in the sprocket tooth and backing up so that the track chain tightens up and pulls the front idler backwards all the way so as to expel all of the grease from the adjuster. I am working with my track chain already removed, so that is how the pictures show this rebuild. Just to mention but not to confuse the issue, once the procedure is thoroughly understood it is not impossible to remove the adjuster piston without pulling the barrel out of the spring thus eliminating the need to split the track if you can get enough slack chain. Use whatever method you have available to push the front idler forward. My best method, considering that the frame rail is not on the tractor is a Port A Power. Normally you can pull the idler forward utilizing the loader bucket or in the case of a dozer, chain the idler to a tree and back up just enough to move the idler forward. Remove the four bolts from the adjuster as shown In order to remove the barrel from the inside of the spring the idler must move fully forward and then the barrel needs to be rotated about 1/4 turn to gain clearance. It is close, but it will come out. Now, you can extract the piston out the front or rear of the barrel. Actually, there is the option to leave the barrel inside the spring and use channel lock pliers to just extract the piston from the barrel. Clean up is difficult if the barrel is left in position.
Rebuilding the track adjuster continued After removing the piston from the barrel note the spiral retaining ring that retains the seal on the end of the piston. Catch the end of the retainer with a small screwdriver and roll it off, replace the seal and roll the new retainer from your kit into place. . Retainer removed Use a small screwdriver and a hammer to wedge, pull apart and replace the two fiber colars as shown. The rebuilt piston can now be lubed and slipped back into the barrel from the front end. A sharp whack from a hammer handle may be required to persuade the new seal to recede into the barrel. As pictured, the remaining o ring and the nylon ring seal the front end of the barrel where it bolts the barrel to together at the flange. In the picture the new o ring is fitted with the nylon o ring fitted over the top of the rubber o ring with the tapered side down against the rubber. Coat those two o rings with a film of grease to hold things in place during final assembly. Note, the larger o ring fits inside the flange opening before re fitting the barrel into the spring. The purpose of that larger o ring is to seal dirt from entering around the outside of the barrel.
Track adjuster rebuild continued Replace the newly rebuilt barrel and piston assembly back into the spring. This large o ring might be rotted and missing when you disassemble. It fits inside the lip of the spring opening, just before the barrel is refitted. My kit for the 951. About $25.00 The resealed piston fitted back in its barrel. By whatever means available to you, push the front idler rearward to bolt up to the adjuster flange. You can push the idler back with the loader bucket or a bottle jack against the dozer blade. I, again, use the Port A Power. Last, close the relief valve on the track. Pump new grease in to tighten adjuster. Crack the relief valve to bleed any trapped air and close it tight. Move machine forward to make the final adjustment. Might as well do the other side while the tools are out and it is fresh on your mind. Hope this information proves to be helpful.
and people tell me cat parts are expensive. try a d 75 s komatsu kit just the outer dirt seal cost 140 plus bucks from the dealer. did find the complete kit else where but cost 5 times what u paid.
I just read the entire thread you've done quite the amount of work to that old machine. My hats off to you. You'll have a great machine for many years after all the fine work you're doing.
Nitelite, was flipping through an old book and found a picture of one of those track loaders you like! Looks like it would be fun to operate with those "short" levers. Also note the high tech ROPS system.
He don't have a lot of computer problems with the old gal. He is really running some tight tracks also. There is a lot of difference between a sun shade and ROPS and I can't imagine the purpose of such long levers. Those guys really worked for a living!
Thanks for the reply Dixon 700. It has been an adventure for sure. It is almost too hot to work on the old gal with the thermometer busting 100. I did go out yesterday and rebuild the left track adjuster. Next order of business is to cut off the old sprocket rims. It will be tedious work cutting them off of the sprocket while they are still mounted on the tractor. An accurate cut line is a must and then there is the decision of whether to use oxy acetylene or a plasma cutter. I am thinking to clamp the new rim to the old one. Get it turning and adjust until it runs true, and mark inside the new rim with soapstone and just start cutting. Whatever method I decide to use to do the cutting you can bet that my pucker power will be just about as tight as the tracks on the old T7 in the previous post above. I hope it is a measure twice, cut once type of deal.
Nitelite, firstly we had some odd days of rescent with the temp' hitting up around the 36c spot, things are back to normal for our Summer around the 16-18 c so its still a bit toasty, on the rim cut task might I suggest you remove the outer cap from the hub, this is 6 bolts 3/4" ** socket needed,under this cap should be a load of grease also a centre hole in the end of the dead shaft, use this to scribe a datum cut line from, you also need to measure from the main frame to the inside of the sprocket the distance the rim stands out from this set point, do a bit of maths on the old rim width against the new rim width, then come up with the distance you need to be from the set point, after you have cut off the rim you need to weld onto the frame at the set point a strip of metal cut to the required distance, then throw on your hoop and tack weld away getting the rim to match up with your datum strip by running the sprocket around via the motor, I just use a tape measure with the distance needed Tip-Exe'd on, but I have done heaps of the re-rim stuff so have more confidence at this task, all credit to you for sticking at this job its not easy to get things going as its all hard work. tctractors
Thanks for the tip tc. That sounds like a better approach than mine. I had considered removing the hub but was hesitant on the account of the possibly breaking another bolt. Sounds like it is worth a try, and I will. I am just in no hurry in the midst of all of this heat. My new sprockets and chain are a month old at this point and show no wear at all.
where's the update?
Things are sitting just where they were. My heart problems prohibit my working in such a heat wave as we have had lately. It has been running 100 degrees and I need 70s or at least mid 80s to be able to proceed. All of the track frame work has been done. The new chains are rolled out under the machine. The sprocket cut lines have been marked out and ready to cut. I just need cooler weather to work in. For sure, I will update when I continue the project.
Back at it! We got a little bit of cooler weather, but not much. I was able to put in about five hours between an early morning session and a late evening session. The cut line marked I removed the cap to be able to access the dimple in the end of the shaft to center up and draw the cut lines using soap stone in a fabricated set of dividers. I used the gas ax to make the cut. I ran out of oxygen just as I finished the cut. I need to trim off about 1/4" all the way around and then do some V grinding. I will have to pick up more oxygen before any more progress can be made.
Hey Nitelite you say the pads were sheared? where they actually sheared or were they cut by some other means? Just wondering cause I just bought a set of 963 pads to go on my 955L. They are 22" pads and stock is 17". I need to cut 2.5" off of one side of the shoes and make offset shoes like you have done. I was figuring on cutting mine in a large metal cutting band saw I have. I took an old pad and cut on it a bit and it cuts remarkably easy for what I figured would have been harder than a whores hart. I cant see how a shear could shear one of these with the grouser and all. maybe it can i just don't know.
I was at the Cat factory back in the 1970's and was surprised when they showed us the shear in the track shop. The pads come in in something like 15' or 20' lengths and they just snip them off to the size they need. It's been over 40 years but memory seems to be the machine would have fit in a pick-up truck box, might have been too heavy but was not a big monster. Don't recall but there must have been another press that punched the holes there too.
My pads were sheared by a third party so I don't actually know weather they were sheared or sawed. The previous owner said that they were sheared but to look at the end of the shoe it looks to like kerf marks. I would think that an easy way to cut the shoes would be to make a jig or fixture for the shoes to load upside down and use a traveling plasma cutter. I too have seen large metal shears. A shear to cut through a track shoe, I would think, would have to be a dedicated machine. I can say that once the offset shoes are installed, they work perfectly. How is retired life treating you Kshansen?
Going good for now just seems to take all my spare time! Next Sunday after noon we are taking off for a week up in New England with the bikes. And if anyone reads this and is thinking about robbing the house while we're gone next door neighbor is watching the house and he spends lots of time at the rife range!
Just make sure that you put the cheese in the safe before you leave, just in case the neighbor is a cheese lover too. (inside private joke) Have a wonderful trip and a safe trip. The wife and I used to travel up to six hundred miles a day on our Gold Wing. I sold it in 1997 after the second heart attack and my reflexes became diminished. We owned and rode the Gold Wing fourteen years. We never put a scratch on it and it never put a scratch on us.
That's real interesting on the shearing. I would think the sheer dies would need to match the pad profile. I just do not see how a straight blade sheer could do it. Looking at some of the pics you posted of your pads it looks to me like they were cut with some sort of saw. Its hard to tell with pictures though. I think all in all I am going to try and band saw mine. I have large industrial grade metal cutting bandsaw and I can set up a stop to make things easy
Like I said, I suspect that it would have been a dedicated shear. The previous owner made the deal with the person who actually cut the pads down. He dropped them off to have them cut down, picked them up and delivered them to me along with the drops. I paid $200.00 extra for the 951 to include the re sizing of the pads, delivered. Looking at the end of the pads it does look like they were sawed. There were more than ninety new pads that came with the machine. The previous owner tried to torch ten of them but he did a poor job with the torch. Cut one pad with your band saw and time it. Multiply that first cut by the number of pads and let us know how long it will take. How many can you expect to cut with one new blade? Generally, you come out better to use what you have and improvise for what you don't have. I sold the drops to the scrap yard to recover some of the cost. I have never used a plasma cutter but just watching videos on the internet, it looks like it would be the way to go. Name brand plasma cutters that are capable of cutting 3/4 material are expensive but I have considered buying one. I just bought gas for the torch today, that was expensive too. I also picked up ten pounds of 7018 x 1/8 welding rods, grinding wheels, etc.
I think if I can saw cut them they will come out way cleaner than any other method. Plus flame cutting you run the risk of softening any hardened material. or hardening it to where it is brittle. Not to mention all the grinding. I know it will take some time but I have more time than money so I am good there. I will need to mark the pads and make sure I am cutting 35 left and 35 right. Since they will be offset it will make left and rights. I figure at 4 pads per 1 beer. I should be into it for at least 18 beers LOL. Of course this figure varies for temperature and dryness.
Does beer work as a cooling fluid on a band saw?
I suppose but isn't that alcohol abuse?
Well if it is one of the "Lite so called beers" it might be a good way to dispose of it, better than filtering it through ones kidneys!
And then it rained. That halted the progress for the day. It was cloudy and a little cooler today so I took advantage and got a little bit more done on the 951. I worked on the left side. I cut the sprocket rim off. It ended up about 1/4 under size, 1/8 gap all the way around. I am not a welder but I think it will weld up ok. Maybe some of the welders on this forum might have some pointers for a good technique for dealing with my 1/8 gap. I will be using a Lincoln Ranger 8 and 7018 rods. I am no stranger to welding as thirty years ago I took 360 hours of welding class on my GI Bill. I do some mig welding now and then. I haven't fired up my old Lincoln 225 tomb stone welder in years. It don't have enough duty cycle for this job. Ready to cut in the first picture. In the last picture the rim is fitted on the sprocket. The rim is being held on and the gap maintained using wooden wedges. for sure, I will need to spend removing paint and some time making sure it is running square, true, and plumb before welding. Right now the plan is to use the Mig welder to tack several spots @ 120 degrees apart and then stick weld solid.
I think you will be fine with an 1/8" gap. It will let you get penetration all the way through the joint. Your end result will be directly proportional to the effort you put into your preparation though. Grind away all the dross and paint down to bare metal. Put in a root pass and then build up the runs from both sides. Slag off and wire brush after you've finished each rod. With patience and attention to detail, this should be a great looking repair. Good luck.
And don't forget the needle peening gun to stress-relieve the welds. IIRC you bought one for this job a while ago. Try to balance the welds on the inside and outside to avoid too much in the way of stresses and don't be frightened to grind out over 50% of the first pass on the outside when you come to weld on the inside just to get the crud out of the inside root. In fact don't be frightened to grind out op to 50% of any weld pass to get to good metal before welding the next pass.
7018 is a medium penetration rod so v out the weld before welding. Cat probably has a welding procedure for this and may recommend 8018 or higher, it would be worth checking. You may need to pre-heat the joint, maintain an inter-pass temperature or post-heat/slow cool. You will have to grind out the back of the weld and put a finish pass there. Stagger your initial welds around the joint until filled.
There is a procedure for welding a sprocket rim on non-segmented final drives and it calls for the use of 7018. It's so old that it doesn't even have a spec for wire ...... Nitelite, if you want a copy drop me a PM with your email address.
Wow, some ones been brave with the torch, I measure the distance of both rims from the frame and note it, then cut 1 rim off and weld on the new 1 with 7016 rods with the welds spaced around the rim needing 3 x 3 spaced welds to do 1 face, all the welds to start /go either clockwise or anti clock using 3.2mm rods, my pal welds 2 strips of angle across the front face of the sprocket, then clamps the rim to the hub using spacer packing to get the correct set of the rim, but I know my effort often runs sweeter because I take more care. tctractors
Thanks for the offer Nige, but I think I already have a copy of the welding procedure, most probably I got it from one of your prior post and it does call for 7018 rods. I had to go to Nashville today to get more oxygen for the torch and two new Deka batteries for the F 250 Diesel. Those chores burned up the day so I got nothing done on the machine. No tc, I am not so brave with the torch, it was scary as he!!. I was so afraid that I would ruin the sprocket. This pilgrim has come too far to screw up now, but all is well so far and I am almost ready to start welding the new rims on. I'll be really glad to get the track frames bolted back on to the machine.
Nitelite, I use a brand of welding rod that I am very comfortable with that are the best for any position welding (D.C. Low Hi 7016) in the U.K. its sort of a requirement to dry the rods for some time pre use, for those that don't know much about Welding stuff, Low Hydrogen (spelling??) rods are Basic Coated rods, lets call it Sand as its along those lines, the Hydrogen Gas gets into the weld making the joint weak so the drier the rods the better the weld and lower P.P.M. gas inclusion to the weld joint, the Sand coating on the rod turns to Glass over the top of the weld form keeping the weld protected from the air around us, 3 P.P.M. (parts per million) is a good area to be in with pre dry rods, this style of rod comes with a carbon tip easy start end to aid starting strike up, the important thing in the rim welding task is to Tack things in place good and true first, then once you start welding to continue until the finish weld, 951 rims are only small items its not D9 stuff so over welding is not a good thing, sometimes on a rim change the cut line only leaves the spoke section so its 6 weld joints not a 360 full lap, I myself stick to the 7016 rods as they are cheap and good plus I have them on the shelf. good luck with the welding tctractors
Thanks for the info Tony, I rely heavily on the advice that is so freely forth coming from experts like yourself who post on this forum. I have the sprockets just about ready to weld. When they are for sure level, square, and plum I intend to tack them with my mig welder. I can use the mig just fine but the stick welder is out of the question for me. My pacemaker/ defibulator just won't allow it. I forgot about the implanted device in my chest one day. I was kneeling on the ground and struck an arc. The zap knocked me down to the ground. I picked myself up and thought that the problem must have been caused by me kneeling on the damp ground. I got a piece of plywood to kneel down on and struck an arc again with the same explosion in my chest. Then I remembered the medical device handbook saying,"NO WELDING". I have contacted and arranged to hire a welder friend to take over for me after I get it tacked. I, being a ," do it yourselfer", just hate that I can't finish the welding job but I don't like getting hit by lightning bolts either. Being hit with the voltage also depletes the battery life of my device. I have exhausted the battery on three units and I have #4 implanted at this time. I have never heard of anyone having #5. My projected battery life at this time is about five more years. I expect to go for #5.
Keep on keeping on with notable progress! Ready to tack weld. The rim hanging and pulled to one side in order to remove the paint from the inside surface of the new rim to prep for welding. A good fit. Hard work seems to pay off, I don't like the grinding part! I needed a good way to hold everything in place to get it all lined up and running true. Ah, a brainstorm to solve the problem and hold things in place!
More pictures Using # 10 cap screws and washers as spacers holding the new rim in place also allows for adjustment for the tack weld :cool2 with the cap screws at spaced around the new rim I can fire up the engine, spin the rim and adjust with a hammer while spinning. A screwdriver prying in the gap and moving the cap screws around provides any needed adjustment prior to tack welding. Prior to cutting the old rims off of the sprockets I cut two sticks, one for each side. I marked the center of the old rim so as to be able to weld the new rim in the exact location as the old rim. I just love it when a good plan comes together. Running straight and true and ready for the tack weld. Now to get the same fit on the other side!
Don't think those #10 screws will work too good when you get to digging that pond out! Looks like a good way to hold it in place to get things lined up.
Nitelite , your sharper than the average bear for sure.
Quite a compliment coming from you Dickjr , thanks. I just try to figure it out as I go along, just hoping that things don't get knackered too bad due to my fumbling along. Today I was cutting down the left side sprocket and the hot slag fell on my oxygen hose and burned a hole in it. I am really glad that it was not the acetylene hose. I was sitting on a brake stool and the fire would have been between my feet. I had a spare hose, no problem, but we won't even mention how close the family jewels came to being scorched! Kshansen, I wish that I could have shown you that trick, BEFORE, you retired. It is not very useful to you now as side cars don't have sprockets do they!
How to mark the sprocket cut lines In order to be complete and not leave loose ends, I need to back up and show how I measured and marked the cut lines on the sprockets to replace the rims. My new rims for the 951 inside diameter measure 26 3/4". The end product of the cut sprocket needs to be about 26 1/2" after cutting and grinding is complete. With the center hub blocking any accurate method of measuring the cut line I removed the cap from the dead shaft and used the countersunk dimple in the end of the center of the dead shaft to locate center for my custom fabricated divider. This is my home maid divider fabricated to mark the cut lines. The point on the left side is taper ground to fit into the dead shaft dimple. On the right the top end of the tubing has been crushed to size as a holder for a small peice of soap stone fitted for marking the line. Be sure to replace the end cap before cutting and grinding to protect against metal dust from entering. Use gasket sealer to keep moisture out and apply a liberal amount of "never seize" on the six 3/4" bolts as they are replaced. When you cut with a torch, cut beside the line not on the line , so as not to destroy the line, leaving the cut line intact on the remaining sprocket, just as you would in a band saw operation. If you destroy the line it becomes difficult to follow with the torch. Next, grind to the line to clean up the slag and clean up the ragged edge. Last bevel the edges in prep for welding. This last operation destroys the no longer needed cut line. On the lower left of this picture you can see barely the small piece soap stone inserted in the end of the crushed tubing marking the cut line as the divider is rotated around the perimeter using the dimple as an anchor point for the divider. Completed cut line. The measurement for all sprocket rims for the 951 may differ depending on the brand. On any rim just measure the inside diameter of the new sprocket rim and divide that measurement by two and then subtract 1/8 for clearance. The sum total will be the distance from tip of point to tip of the soap stone inserted in the divider. My measurement happened to total 13 5/16" "Measure twice and cut once" . :notworthy
Can't be - I don't see no pic-a-nic basket .......... :tong
Nige, you don't see no pic a nic basket because the name is Nitelite not Yoggie. Yoggie needs that basket to carry his lunch. He can afford to eat a pic a nic lunch out in the park every day because he is employed by the US Park Service. I, on the other hand, am unemployed and I stay broke from feeding the Cats. I don't need a pic a nic basket to carry my lunch snack, it fits in my watch pocket. I do on occasion see a boo boo though.
Hey this may be a crazy idea but have you thought about mounting some sort of tool post to the machine, starting it up and putting it in gear and cutting the sprocket down with a lathe bit? Of course you would need some way of holding the opposite brake clutch pedal in. I have seen stuff done kind of like this in line boring operations by welding temporary fixtures to the machine that were cut off later. Seems to me would be far cleaner and more acurate to get concentric. But like I say may be crazy idea. Just a thought and in no way saying that your not doing an awsome job cause ya are. Just the machinist in me that thinks it would be a fun projec to try.
I do have a cutter bar that holds the bit that came off of an old brake lathe. I thought about rigging something up to mount and cut the spinning sprocket. Also thought about using a plasma cutter torch mounted to the frame and try spinning the sprocket holding the brake to control the spin speed. In the end I just used what I already had, the gas ax and plenty of grinding. I don't intend to ever need to do a repeat of the job again so as a one time job the torch seemed to work just fine. I am a wood worker, not a metal worker, but I can pretty well take on any job and expect to eventually figure out how to accomplish the task with what ever means I have on hand at the time.
Sometimes it would be nice to do the same type of job several times in a year that way you could justify the time spent tooling up to do the job. In a case like yours it probably would have taken as long to design and build the mounts for the cutter as you spent with the gas ax and grinder. It would be a whole different story if you had a fleet of 10 of these 951's that would need the same repair over the next couple of years. If that was the case you'd have your brother over and the two of you could have the tooling made in a couple days!
No really I am darn happy if I only have to do it once ever LOL.
I was thnking more on the line of doing the same thing on multiple machines with some one else paying you for your skills and effort! Not rebuilding the same piece of equipment more than once out of your own pocket! I could talk about that from recent experience but as it is not technically Heavy Equipment despite having "HD" on the side I'll leave that to another forum!
I know. I was referring to the physical effort to do the job any one machine let alone a whole line of many of the same kind LOL. It all just wears me out anymore paid or not I dont want to do it unless I absolutely have to. I would much rather be working on building my airplane.
I understand, I would rather be working on my yacht, but at least now I have the two anchors for the it.
Ready to weld. Welder is lined up for next Monday. You might call it luck or you could overlook the luck part and just call it skill. I tightened all of the #10 cap screws as I tapped on the rims with a three pound hammer. I set up my indicators on both rims to check for run out and wobble. I fired up the engine and put the tractor in gear and just let the sprockets spin. I checked both rims as they spun. The right rim was perfect and I only needed to smack the left one twice with the three pound hammer to correct a small wobble. In every direction measured the rims are running true within 1/8" and that is plus or minus 1/16". I really did expect to need to spend quite a bit of time adjusting. As dark stopped me today, I will tack weld with the mig tomorrow. I plan on doing three tack welds 120 degrees apart, inside and out. I will let the welder finish it up with a 100% weld on Monday. Yep Nige, I will peen the welds as the welder changes his rods. My ultra modern work site equipped with heavy duty hoisting equipment. Note the open roof design, comfortable seating and more than adequate overhead lighting. I can't even begin to guess how much time and work those little #10 cap screws saved. There are two of these pictures because I had extra time to take photos due to not needing to waste all of that time on adjusting the new rims to run true. Like I said, within 1/8 in every direction. The ink mark is the center line of the sprocket and in line with the rear bottom roller and front idler that was checked with a laser level set up and measured before removal of the track frame. While I am waiting on the welder I might get some more cleaning, sanding, and painting done on the old gal. I'll can't wait to be able to put the track frames and new chains back on her. Then I can finally put her slippers back on, might even paint them too.
If you want to keep the workpiece at the correct interpass temperature then IMHO once you've got going after first preheating a welding job like that is a 2-man job; one man to weld, the other to do the needle peening and clean-up. Needle peening will remove the slag and stress-relieve at the same time - two for the price of one so to speak.
Right on Nige! I for obvious medical reasons, I can't get too close while the welder has his arc going, but I can stand by at a safe distance ready to do the slag removal and needle peening while he changes rods. I will also take care of the preheating before the welder strikes his first arc. I would think that once the welding process began that no more preheating would be needed with the torch. Am I right about that or should occasional preheating be done during the entire welding and cool down period?
On a summer day in TN I would say that once you have the workpiece up to temperature the heat of the welding process should maintain the required temperature without any need for additional pre-heating. According to SEHS7750 so long as the parts are at room temperature you can start welding, so there is no pre-heat called for at all. However if it was me I would be at least warming the parts up to around 100-120 DegF before starting to weld simply to drive out any moisture that may be present before striking the first arc, especially if you are starting first thing in the morning. Also note the comments on the procedure regarding keeping the workpiece free from drafts while welding. When the welding is completed it would be a good idea to throw a fire blanket or something similar over it to keep drafts out until the whole assembly is cooled back to ambient temperature.
Man that was awsome thinking on the screws and washers. Thats was an excellent way to do it.
Thanks Workshop, the awesome thing about using the #10 bolts is that both rims run true without a lot of adjusting and fiddling. Those things are heavy and it was a one man job to lift them into place with the aid of a come along and get a couple of bolts in there to hold things. I first tried wooden wedges driven in the crack between the sprocket center and the new rim. The wedges would not hold the rim tight enough that the sprocket could be spun to check for proper alignment. Sometimes the simplest things can solve some of the biggest problems, just a simple solution that can be used by many who might face the same operation on other machines.
Nitelite, I finally got a chance to catch up on your thread! That is very impressive progress!!! I've just sourced a new-to-me block for my kitty, so I hope to be following in your footsteps of the engine work soon! I called Off Road today and heard the sad news that Jeff is not working sales anymore. That's a bummer... :thumbdown:thumbdown
Jeff is a buyer for Offroad now. Ask for Jeff Robinson and if you can get through to him he will still fill your order.
Making more progress Welding just about complete! Welding 100% inside and out took about eight hours. Tomorrow it will get some hard facing on the bottom of the bucket.
What rods did you use for the weld? My half-@ssed welder eye is not telling me anything.
I ended up emailing him from his address off an old order and he is helping me out. Someone else tried quoting me what I need though Offroad and I had Jeff re-do it. What was quoted to me at $913.60, Jeff re-quoted with some different parts groups for $651.75. It sure helps to find the right people!!!! Glad to see those sprockets welded up!
It seems as though It seems like the telephone people at Offroad are trying to screen and restrict Jeff's calls from customers. I am not confident dealing with any of the other parts reps. Good Idea, when you get a chance pm me his Email addy.
Ten lbs of 7018 rods to do the job.
Are you planning on grinding everything smooth before painting..? It would make your replacement sprocket rims look like OEM.
I am going to paint the entire machine. I will paint the track frame group before it is re installed. I will also paint the lower section of the machine. When the track frames are installed and the painting done the welded rims are barely visible. I will finish the painting when the assembly is complete. Once I begin to clean out the lake it will look like a mud ball anyway, so I doubt that I will be doing any grinding.
Sorry man no offense intended. I just have never been or ever will be a big fan of hard surfacing a bucket. We all have our opinions and in my honest opinion your far better off making wear plates out of ar400 plate steel. I have even seen old worn out track pads welded to bucket bottoms for wear plates. Not real cosmetically appealing though. I think my favorite is square plates with a hole in the center so it can be roset welded on. Sure helps from warping the snot out of things. Once its warped you fight like hell to get it un warped if at all. I have seen cutting edges warped so badly the center would be 3 inches higher than the outside edges.
For some of the folks that may not know. ...it's best to weld in a couple few temporary vertical braces about an inch or so inside the bucket to prevent warping.
Workshop, I am not really a metal worker, so I would not be equipped to fabricate wear plates and couldn't weld them on if I had them. The hard surfacing on the bucket was on the existing wear plates to extend their service life. The welder was standing there equipped to do the job, so why not. You expressed your opinion and I consider all opinions but no offence was taken at all. Four hours cleaning, wire brushing and painting today produced good results. Hopefully I'll get started on putting the track frames back on tomorrow. As far as the painting goes, I lack the hood, instrument panel and the ROPS. There will be some touch up work like wrench marks and bolt heads. I look to be riding in the chariot seat before too long. I just might have to contact Jeff at Offroad and treat the old gal to some new decals. The Cat brand paint really works well. I am cutting it about 5%-7% with acetone and spraying with 25 lbs air pressure at the gun. I am using a Devilbiss conventional gun. I painted the engine compartment before the freshly overhauled painted engine was installed. I have used 1 3/4 gallon of paint so far. I bought two gallons and expect to need one more to finish up, using a total of three gallons.
Nitelite, those grill plates look a bit of a knacker job as things are not correct with them, the grill is in 2 sections with the top plate being the same as the lower plate, on the early grills they have holes from top to bottom, on the later grills (CAT 951C) the holes are not punched from top to bottom but leave a band about 3" wide without any holes at 1 end that is placed at the top with 1 grill and at the bottom with the other, both grill half's are identical, your shovel should have grill sections fully covered with holes again the top section and lower section are identical, I have a local Fab Shop cut plates for me on their plasma table for around £60 a section for material and cutting, this makes the front look mint. tctractors
Perhaps Jeff's gaffers don't think he's earning enough money for them and that's why they're screening calls??
Don't start counting holes in grills Nitelite,they will send you asleep.When TC returned a d8 for me,I discovered that he may of stolen 2 holes from my grill to stuff into his little Drott grill...??
When you get ready for decals check out the store on the ACMOC site. They make full factory match decal sets for all these older machines along with factory correct direction on where they should be applied to be correct. Very reasonably priced.
Nitelite , Are you really going to take that nice shiny 951 and go play in that pond and get it all dirty? Then again that is what it was built for from the get go. Not like some of the guys around here with the big pockets that drive around in their Hummers that never saw a gravel road much less deep mud. Makes my wife crazy, she says if she could afford one of those she would make sure it had a couple of inches of mud hanging off it all the time. Hummm, just had a idea, maybe I should start a company making artificial mud kits for those country club people to attach to their Hummers and Range Rovers so they can look like they just got back from Safari in deep Africa!
Same here. The most danger any SUV is in here is from the brats while doing the school run twice a day. What a waste of an offroad vehicle ..........
Ok, I think you guys have put your heads together and solved all of my problems, saved me a heap of work too. First, I am going to satisfy Tony and order some of those grill hole decals for the front end. Then, I am going to satisfy kshansen and Nige by ordering some artificial mud decals for the lower third of the machine. I won't even need to put the shoes back on, I'll just leave it on the cribbing to keep it high and dry. Thanks for the ideas guys, I just love this forum PS I am even going to please workshop and order a warped bucket decal for the shovel.
Nitelite, I'm actually waiting to see the first pictures with that machine working hard digging that pond out with a little smoke coming out the stack. Maybe you can get some one to make a video and post it on line so we can enjoy it too. I know this isn't going to be a trailer or shed Queen you're going to make it work to pay you back for all the time and efforts you put into this job.
or sink it! I got one track frame back on today. That is a big job for one man. It turned over on me three times due to the front idler making it top heavy. Righting it took awhile. I was really glad to get that first mounting bolt started. Tomorrow the first thing that I am going to do is to make a 4x4x6 wood outrigger and clamp it to the bottom of the other track frame so it can't turn over when I lift it and put it in its mounting position. Installing the new track chains working by myself will be a trick. I can push them under the front idler and sprocket with the bucket on the ag tractor. Next I will lift the chain at the rear and get it started on the sprocket teeth. Start the engine and slowly turn the sprocket pulling forward. Use a come a long pulling from the bucket to take up slack as the chain goes over the top idler and on to the front idler and bolt the master together over the front idler. Simple, no trick to it?
Nitelite, I think if I was you working on my own I'd get both the new track chains under the loader as you describe then lower the loader on to the chains. Once the tractor is sitting on the chain you can use the sprocket to drive the chain over the rear of the machine and pull the slack end to the front idler. Also doing it that way you will have less slack in the bottom run of the chain to try to pull together to get the 2 halves of your master link to line up. with the tractor off the ground the chain is going to hang pretty low even without the shoes fitted.
Yes mate,get both track groups under before winding them on as the master links need to be nice and level on both sides.When you button them up on the Croc link the 4 bolts should be run in by hand after a good clean up of the paint etc.I don't need to tell nitelite this,but it may be of use to somebody else
Remember the old Caterpillar logo. ....the one that looks like a insect or slinky. ..do they have them?
Can't put the weight of the loader on the track chain with no shoes on the chain due to working on soft ground. I need to put the chain on the rear sprocket, pull it over the top roller and on towards the front idler with the ag tractor. I should be able to bolt the chain master link over the front idler. Then the rest of the shoes.
Made some good progress today. I got the loader frames on and then got the track frames lined up beneath the machine. I came in from the rear with the ag tractor and lifted the chain over the sprocket. I went to the front with the ag tractor to complete the pulling of thr chain to the front idler. Dark got me. As you can see, I lack bolting the master link, just at the front of the front idler. The chain on the right side is pulled over the sprocket and top idler. worked until dark thirty. Should be putting on her slippers tomorrow!
That new SALT chain is really stiff to work with.
That's a sign that there is NO wear in it....a good sign I would have thought. :thumbsup I like what you did with the cribbing under the new rails to reduce the slack as much as possible in order to get the Master Link connected. Remember when installing the Master Link bolts that they get anti-seize on the shank of the bolt and under the head where it bears on to the track shoe as well as on the threads as would be normal. Don't be stingy with it. Also I would suggest when you bolt the Master Link up to install the track shoe on that link at the same time. It will save time later.
Ouch, I just found out that the bolt pattern for the master link is gust a little bit different than the bolt pattern for the rest of the chain. I will need to do some grinding in the bolt holes of two of the shoes that fit over the master link. I might need to weld up the old holes and re drill.
That's happened quite a bit over the last few years. As Cat has beefed up the "crocodile" of the master link joint the profile of the links has changed and therefore the bolt hole pattern of the Master Shoe had to change. If your dealer didn't say anything about the need for a change of Master Shoe to fit the new Link Groups then I would hit them up for a couple of free shoes with the correct hole pattern........
Cleaning paint from the rails and bolting shoes. When I get half of the pads on I can start the engine and turn the pads to the bottom. Then I will be able to lower the machine to the ground to sit on the pads. Last, I will put the rest of the pads on and work out the bit of modification to the master link bolt holes.
Almost half of the pads on. Dark got me again. My impact gun set up with an auxillary air tank. All of the nuts are started on the bolts, just need to run them up and torque. Really getting close now.
I have extra shoes to modify and experiment with. Does anyone have a picture of the odd bolt patterned master shoe that fits the SALT chains. My shoes are triple grouser. The chains, I think, are the same as a D5 Cat. Nige' I will call Thompson Cat tomorrow to check on the availability and price of the master pads. Just as you suggested the need for those pads should have been mentioned and priced in by the dealer at the same time as the link group purchase. Today, I got another third of the pads installed and ran into the dark thirty thing again.
I'm sure you are but just confirm you're taking off all the paint from the new links before fitting the shoes. Sorry but I don't have any sort of dimensioned drawing of the track links.
Yes all paint is removed from new rails using a 4" flap disk. Also cleaning each pad where it mates to the new rail. I am thinking that I will modify my existing shoe to fit the master link. I have plenty of extra pads. I hope to finish up with the track pad replacement today and put the machine back on the ground.
When I called and talked to Jeff at OffRoad about ordering my chains he mentioned I would need Master Shoes and included them in the quote (CR3601/14@ $25.00 for my 941) and he mentioned they take a different set of nuts/bolts. BTW when I called and asked for him the receptionist put me right thru to him.
If that price is correct it's not worth trying to build up the bolt holes and re-drilling, apart from the wait for the parts that is .........
I can see light at the end of the tunnel. I called Thompson Cat today about the master shoes. My shoes were 18" triple grouser that I had to cut two inches off the inside to clear the cab. That makes them 16" offset pads. In order to get the master shoes I had to order 22" double grouser shoes and will cut off of both sides as they don't carry a 18" shoe. $58.00 each including freight. In the morning the rep is going to see if he can find a good used pair of master pads that will work. I decided not to modify my existing pads as it would be risking failure of my new bolt up master links. All pads are installed except the two master shoes which should be here in a few days. When I get the master pads on I will need to tighten the track chains with the proper slack. I am working on the front grill and I need to finish splashing on some more paint. I have to replace the sprocket covers and rock guards. A good grease job and put the belly pan back on and then I will be ready for a victory lap! I think it is about time to drain the water from the lake so it can begin to dry up a bit. I tried to delete the last picture but it refuses to be deleted so I will explain what it is. We have spring water and that is a filter, sediment trap, that I made from PVC pipe and fittings. I drain it every few months. The spring puts out a stream of water about 100 gallons per hour and is piped to a 1000 gallon holding tank to then be pumped to the house. We have used that water supply for forty years now. We enjoy crystal clear ice cold water not treated with Chlorine.
I called the Cat rep today to see if he had ordered the two track master pads@ $58.00 each, he had not ordered them yet and said that they would need to be shipped from Georgia. I called Jeff at offroadequipment to order the new decal set for the machine. While I was at it I asked Jeff if, by chance, he had the shoes in stock. He said that has four Caterpillar brand master shoes in stock and they are $20 each plus freight. I ordered them along with the decals. I called cat and told them that I no longer needed the shoes but I did order two more gallons of Cat yellow paint for pickup in the morning. One gallon will probably finish the 951 but I will be putting a paint job on the D4E dozier before too long so it won't go to waste.
It is amazing how much paint it takes to paint one of these isn't it?
Paint job. In the picture you can see how much I got painted with a little less than two gallons. I lack the cab, ROPS, hood and dash. The freshly painted surface, as you can see, is a little different shade than where I lack painting. Keep in mind that I put two coats on the engine and painted the engine compartment prior to installing the engine. I think that I will make it with three gallon. The machine is clean and ready to finish painting but as I was getting ready to fill the paint gun today, it began to cloud up and it rained. Maybe tomorrow. The decals and track master shoes should be here on Monday or Tuesday. I am thinking that I will leave the rock guards off until I clean out the lake so that I can keep the mud washed out of the uc. The old Ford F-700 dump truck just might end up with a Cat yellow cab if indeed I do have enough paint left. :cool2
Wow your machine has come along way and looks great. It would be great to see a before and after picture when your finished. I'm curious about the decals you ordered from ORE. I usually order via the Internet and I haven't ever seen where they show decals. Do you have to call them to get decals?
You can call or email them. I've been buying all my parts from them also and I'm very pleased with their customer service!
Decals To get the decals call Jeff Robinson at offroad for a quote. He orders them from a firm in Texas. $57.00 for the full set for the 951. They make them to order so it takes a few days for the turn around time.
Mud bath soon to come! I will wash out the uc with a high pressure hose at the end of each day to keep the mud from drying out and packing.
Nitelite, You have done an amazing job on your machine!
Paint complete! The painting is done and that was a job. The clean up takes far more effort than the actual painting. She is clean and painted inside and out! The first thing to be done was to remove all of the old decals. I used a heat gun, single edge razor blade, a lot of time, and then removed the glue with acetone. I added on to the lower radiator cover. I couldn't locate one so I improvised. Nige, I even added some holes for Tony. Maybe not the right number of holes but nevertheless, holes. That should stop a limb from adding extra holes to the radiator core. I painted the outside of the bucket and then hoisted it for easier access to the rest of the machine. I ended up using 2 3/4 gallons of paint cut with acetone. The added acetone actually etches the old paint and helps the new paint bond to the old. Speeds up drying time and repels flying bugs too. Just need some drying time and decals. I ordered 951-B decals to agree with the machine serial #.
WOW! looks great! :notworthy
Agreed. Now go get it dirty ............
Yes, need some pictures with gobs all over it right as it comes out of the pond! Operator too! One nice thing about having it all clean and painted is the mud will wash off much easier than it would off the dull and rusty areas. Always easier to keep a machine than to clean one that has never been cleaned.
I just got the undercarriage all back on my 955L and have it ready to go out and make some revenue. One thing I did before It goes back out is I took all the belly pans off and cleaned them out also. I don't know if you already have but it might be a good idea to clean them out before you put er back in heavy use. I think it helps things run cooler as at times they get so full they can block airflow to the oil pans and such. Plus it is amazing how much grease oil and organic matter gets caught in them and causes a real fire hazard. It is amazing how completely burnt down a machine can become from a fire in the belly pan. It can be one large fuel source. Also I don't know what your experience level is cleaning out a pond with a track loader but I will offer up one bit of advice. When you get a nice large scoop of sludge and you track it out and its wiggling in your bucket like jello, keep your bucket as low as possible to dump it out. If you pick the bucket up high and dump it like your trying to stockpile dry dirt your gona end up wearing a bunch of it. Ask me how I know LOL. And man does that stuff stink to. Try and keep it from sloping like that when you dump it out cause not only will you be wearing it but it can clog up your radiator also. Keep a steady eye on your temperatures. that mud and gunk will get everywhere. If your getting tired of my advice just say so and I will regress LOL. I am sorry but I have been stuck in the hospital the last 3 weeks with a large infection in my leg. They had to remove a large chunk of flesh and that means I have a wound area with a real long recovery time with nothing to do but wish I could be out working on my second 955L project. And to make matters worse the weather has been perfect for being out working. Just darn frustrated I cant be turning some wrenches.
If I just had two more shoes, I could ride! Get well soon workshop, winter is not far away! I did take the belly pan out from the machine, first thing that was removed because I didn't want a fire from all of the cutting torch and welding work. Thanks for the warning about the mud splashing! Kshansen, she will get muddy soon enough. UPS brought the two shoes today but they were wrong. I called Jeff at offroad and he said that they must have pulled and sent regular shoes instead of the master shoes. He is re sending the correct shoes this time I hope. Otherwise the machine is ready to roll. No decals yet. I can't get it dirty until I get decals stuck on it, can I? I really did need to cover up that big hole in front of the lower radiator. That 1/4" diamond plate should do the trick. Nige and nickey, not enough holes in there but Tony can't count that high anyway. I even cleaned the glass in the gages. I need a more comfortable seat!
oops, in the picture above that was taken from sitting in the driver's seat, the air cleaner and exhaust are on oposite sides. I must have put that engine back together backwards! Either that or it must have come from the same place as tctractors Land Rover. Strange!!
Do you know what the old old Caterpillar emblem looked like. ..... like a caterpillar bug or slinky. ...that would be cool to have a decal of that on each lift arm.
I can't say that I remember that decal.
I think this is the one he means..... https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/6073205/il_570xN.270876818.jpg
Yeah that's it nige! Has anyone ever seen it as a black decal?
Nitelite, if you lived within 200 miles of me I would sneak up in the dark and fit a new bottom grill on your mount, that thing (although Ok) is hurting my eyes, the Decals that the CAT agents sell now for these shovels are completely wrong, on the back of the fuel tank it has CATERPILLAR (in big things ) then below it has TRAXCAVATOR (in smaller big things) if you look at pictures of mine the stickers are all correct and in the correct locations, they cost £55, I have new grill plates in stock for 951B's and C series, but I must say you have stuck with it and its looking great, it will never be a patch on mine as mine is in top nick (Good Grill plates LoL) tctractors with a well done that Man to Nitelite.
First class job
Tony, I didn't think that you would notice that non OEM plate! It blended so well! When and if I find the correct radiator plate it is just a matter of removing the four bolts and changing the plate. For now, the radiator is protected from impalement. The new decals came. I will have to find a good method to get them on the machine good and straight as they are individual letters. The only hold up now is the two master shoes. Expected delivery in two more days. Well done with the help of guys on this forum like you!
When I get out of the hospital and get a chance I will take a picture of the radiator guard that is added to my machine for doing demolition work. It basically is a louvered set up and the louvers are angled so a piece of re-bar cannot come up and poke the radiator. It is hinged so you can open it up and clean it out once in a while.
Nitelite, I think if you do the decals right you can pull the backing off the side that goes against the painted surface and the letters will stay stuck to the white tissue like paper. Then you can position the set on the machine and then pull off the tissue paper like cover off. The white tissue like paper is sticky on the side touching the letters but the sticky stuff on the back side of the letters is a little stronger. You just have to take your time and pull it off slow and easy. We used this type of decal for company logos and they were several separate pieces and it worked fine 90% of the time.
Best way I've always found is a spray bottle full of a soapy water mix. Soak the surface with that then apply the decal and use something like a hard rubber squegee to push the water out from behind the decal. Sticks like a dream........
Sticking a couple edges to one or two knife blades to apply works good too.
Here are the pics of my radiator gaurd
Tony is going to just love that radiator guard design. It should really make his day! He will be copying it to put one on his B model of his. It serves its purpose and protects the soft components behind, that's what really matters when using it for demolition work. You must have gotten out of the hospital, how is the hand? Looks like you are into a pretty good machine project yourself workshop. What all are you having to do to the old gal? Looks like a new spring standing back there. I wish that I was closer, I would help you. I bet that toe motor comes in handy. My ag tractor did some straining moving parts around from the 951. I am going out to put the new decals on. Nige, I got to looking at the decals and you are right about sticking them before pulling off the outside paper. I just wasn't thinking. I am also going to check the steering and brake linkage adjustment before I bolt the floor plates back down. No better time to do it than now.
What I've found with decals is that no matter how well you measure and mark where you want them you need some time to get any air out from underneath the decal before it sticks to the metal surface like the proverbial sh*t to a blanket. Hence the spray bottle full of a mixture of your wife's dishwashing liquid and water. Get the surface really wet and apply the sticker, when it's on you will find it will actually slide around to a certain extent so that you can position it correctly. The trick is getting it in position before you run out of soap..... once it's where you want it you can squeegee the water out starting from the centre of the decal and working towards the edges. Once all the water is squeezed out leave the sticker for maybe 30 minutes before pulling the outside paper off.
No still in hospital but found some pictures on my phone I could edit and post. Hoping to get out tonight. The guard is all 3/4" plate steel. It is hinged on one side and you pull the pin from the other and swing it open so you can clean it out once in a while. It was built by my Dad way back in the 80s after he had to pay for a new radiator core. My Dad bought this machine in 1982 and fed Me, my brothers and mom all those years. Even put my brother through college and me through tech school. Now its feeding my family. Cant ask much more of a machine than that. Right now it is all back together and is scheduled to demo a house next week. Got another one right behind it in the picture that is the next project. The forklift is awesome. makes all the work so much easier. If you can get your hands on one I highly recommend it. A true work saver.
Oh forgot on my machine I pulled both track frames off to remove broken frame roller bolts. it was easier to take track frame off and roll it over so I could use mag base drill to drill them straight. Had to pull the left one anyhow to be able to get to the drive sprocket and remove it to replace cut up duo cone seal from wad of wire and trash. both springs were broken and tensioners got rebuilt. also newer used front idlers and all the wear strips and guides on the front idlers were replaced and repaired to correct tolerance. All new rollers and a newer set of used track I am borrowing off my other machine. And new sprocket segments. A whole pile of new bolts and other parts LOL. Amazing the scrap pile this project made. To bad scrap is so far down.
Where are those shoes? Got the decals on and the floor plates bolted back in place. I lubed everything under the floor plates and adjusted the shifter, brakes and steering linkage. Now I have third gear! Proud looking old machine for sure. Some of these pictures came out sideways and refused to be turned, but the decals are straight!
I pulled the masking tape off of the ID plates and I guess, for the first time, I actually read them. Regardless of the 330 engine in the unit it is a "C" series not a "B" model. Nevertheless, she is now sporting 951-B decals. You can't win them all!
That's one nice looking 951!
Great Job! I have been following this thread for awhile. Neat to see the progress!
i am glad that you are enjoying the thread. It is getting pretty long and would be a long read from the first post to the last. I have learned a lot from these guys on the forum and hope someone might benefit.
I actually got to go riding today! The master shoes came by UPS today. I cut them down to match my 16" offset shoes and got them mounted. I tightened the tracks and I can't believe that I am finished with the old gal. I fired her up and cut a new road, also did some ditching on an existing road. In all I worked the machine pretty hard for about two hours. I heard a loud noise from the left track, twice while backing up in a hard pull. It could have been caused by rocks in the track. I may end up needing to go into the finals, I am not sure yet. If indeed I need to do some work on the finals I think that I am up to the challenge but I would really rather not have to do that. You can see the entrance to the new road on the right in the tree line. Tough to get through the cedars. I didn't scratch up that new paint too bad. Now the 951 makes my dozier look bad! I might have to put a little paint on it too.
Congratulations Nitelite you now have a very nice machine there, this has been a very informative and entertaining thread mate It's almost sad to see it finished I was enjoying the daily updates on the progress but it's nice to see it up and working
Nitelite , what about the poor D4 ?
Thanks for the comment purnong. I am glad the 951 is up and running. I need a break, that was a lot of work for an old man to tackle in one giant bite. That old machine is a sleeper now, for sure. I t has all hydraulic cylinders overhauled, including track adjusters. A fresh complete engine overhaul. New sprockets. New SALT track chains. All new track roller frame mounting bolts. It sits on a very good set of rollers and new track shoes. I also replaced one carrier roller, the PO replaced the other. All fluids and filters are new. Some new gages and disconnect switch and all return hoses. It has two new 4DHD batteries. New complete paint job, decals, and she is full of diesel. I have a feeling that there will be other issues. I don't intend to forget HEF and I will post the work that I do with her in the future.
Don't let that newly painted 951 sitting beside her fool you. That poor old looking D4E is a fine old machine. Mechanically, it needs absolutely nothing. It sits on a 100% undercarriage, has a fine running engine and will work its guts out when asked to do so. I do need to pull the winch off the back and find out why the PTO shaft is not turning the winch. I am either going to have to paint it too, or park them farther apart from now on. The new paint on the 951 does make her appear a little poor. If viewed by itself the paint actually is pretty fair. You can see how tall the weeds have grown up around her but I got on it last Sunday and it fired right up. I reworked about 1/2 mile of roads with it. Going from the power shift track loader to the direct drive dozier puts me on my toes for a short while but it is like riding a bicycle and in a few minutes I can work the tractor, think of something else, and chew chewing gum all at the same time. There is one consolation, If one of them fails to start or won't run just right, its not the computer!
I'm just jealous
Looks great Nitelite! She's going to serve you very well for a very long time with all the love you've given her!
Fantastic work!! I have sure enjoyed watching the journey unfold on HEF!
Looks fantastic Nitelite! I've to hand it to you...you're a machine. I'm amazed at what you've been able to accomplish by yourself. It's sure been fun checking this thread for updates.
I just returned from a short vacation. We spent a few days on the naval base in Norfolk Va. Saw a lot of overwhelming and interesting things. We went to the air show and visited Kitty Hawk North Carolina, the site of the first powered flight by the Wright brothers. I kept up with the thread on my phone while I was away. Boone, I will say again, I envy you having your entire family being involved in the adventures with your loader. My old machines give me a reason to get out of the recliner every day, something to do! With information and help from this forum, and a bit of will power, anyone could accomplish such a project.
Sounds like you had a good trip. My wife, our little toe heads and I just got back from a trip to Chattanooga. Lot's to do there. We took a train ride at the Tennessee Valley RR Musuem. The boys ate that up. We also got to ride in a WWII DUKW (Duck) down the river. The driver let me and the little one drive it for a bit. LOL! Always good to get away for a while.
Boone, the next time you visit Chattanooga take the kids to Lake Winnie. We took the grand kids last month. Check it out on the web. My wife, kids and myself rode the train to the the very first trip to the Musuem. Today I decided to build a new home. I built my present home myself in 1976. I drove every nail and pulled every wire myself. It is a 4000 sf with full basement. I will have the new one built by a contractor. The Veterans Administration issued a grant for the new home. The VA Administrators were out here today and gave me the green light. I think that I will do the dirt work myself, dig the basement, put in the road etc. I haven't decided whether to go ahead and try to get it dried in before winter or just wait until spring. Wow, it sounds like some fun coming my way. I hope the old machines are up to it.
Awesome!! Can't wait to see some pics of this! opcorn I'm sure your machines are just itchin' for a project!
The new house going to be on the same property? What are the plans for the 1976 house?
Yes, The wife and I went for a Jeep ride around the 35 acres trying to decide where exactly to construct the new home. I need to take the dozier and cut a road through a hollow and up on the next ridge, there are some awesome building sites on top of that ridge, very private and no neighbors, just game preserve. Next choice would be overlooking the lake that I need to get started cleaning out. I have a choice to spend the grant money on the 1976 home updating it to meet the VA's specifications for a handicap dwelling. Or a choice to build a new home built to VA handicap specs. My existing home really needs nothing done to it at all. I could choose not to use the grant at all, that is a no brainer! Or build the new home. My existing home will go to my daughter and her family. My new home will be built from a set of plans that my son likes and has, someday it will become his home anyway. My children were born on this place and grew up hunting, fishing and riding their atvs'. There is plenty of room for the grand kids to build someday if they choose. I made my living working in my cabinet shop for more than twenty years. The entrance door to the cabinet shop is fifty seven steps from my recliner in the house. I know that because I had to walk to work and back every day.
After I told Diane about your 35 acres with a good view and private lake she asked if you'r be interesting in adopting her!
Thats great, and having the room for everyone is awesome. I currently moved off our family farm a few years back to have our own home when i married my wife but hope to move back when I can afford to build a home that we hope we would retire in. As you mentioned, I've already told the wife I am doing the ground work as I want to dig basement. Sounds like a good reason to add an excavator and dump truck to the mix vs just b/c i want more to play on! On the cleaning pond side, how do you plan to accomplish that. I'm scared to get in to close to mine even though its way down b/c drought b/c it'll sink and I have nothing to pull it out if it bottoms out (another need for excavator!!).
Please send pictures!
My lake has a solid rock bottom. I built it, rather had it built, forty years ago. I had it cleaned out back down to rock bottom thirty two years ago. It has a brass gate valve in the deep end so I can drain it. I will dig my way in and haul the silt out with the dump truck that I bought for that purpose. So long as I work on the rock and don't wade into the mud, I don't expect any problems. I have a D4-E Dozier with a winch in case of problems but I need to fix the winch before the clean out. A loaded dump truck stuck in the mud might even need that winch.
That's a great little park. We did Lake Winnie on the last day of our trip. We were all wore out, but had fun anyway. I think I rode the Woolie Worm at least 4 times in a row with the kids. We did the aquarium, discovery museum and few other things while there. Congrats on the new home. Sounds like you're going to be covered up in projects. The way you work, I think you and machines will all be up to the challenge. Looking forward to following your progress!
I seem to have over did it! Hee Hee I used the loader to bury my twelve year old dog. She just got too old and died. The Cat 951 made short work of the chore. I had an appointment with my cardiologist at the VA hospital last Friday. He asked, "what is the most strenuous type of physical activity that you have done since our last visit"? I replied, "I don't really know Doc". My wife then spoke up and said, "he buried the dog". The doctor's face brightened up and he began to write on my chart. He asked, "was it a deep grave or a shallow grave"? I answered that it was indeed a deep grave. He wrote some more in my chart. Next he asked, "how deep"? I answered, "about four feet deep". He wrote some more in the chart. Next he asked, " how long did it take you to dig that hole, and were you not short of breath or exhausted after digging such a deep grave"? I answered, " no, I used my Caterpillar track loader to dig the hole and it only took me a few minutes". Doc. said," I thought I told you not to be operating that machine"! I said, no doc, you said to stay off of my bull dozier! While giving me a dirty look, Doc. scribbled over what he had written on my chart and asked, "you have not been working on your dozier again have you"? I said "nope". He didn't ask if I had been working on the track loader and I didn't volunteer anything either. Walking the 951 back to the barn after doing burial duty.
It is unbelievable how much better the old loader runs after the engine overhaul. I also feel much better knowing that I am riding on a new undercarriage that is not apt to jump a sprocket tooth or throw a track. I did hear what sounded like the chain jumping a sprocket tooth on the left track, but, only once since I replaced the sprockets and chains. The machine was in a really hard strain, backing up over a steep bank after pushing a full bucket load over the edge of a bank and I actually tipped over the edge of the bank slightly more than I had intended. As I have only heard the loud bang once and there is nothing visibly wrong upon inspection, I am hoping it was just a rock in the wrong place that got crushed. The awful thought of a problem with the final drive came quickly to mind. I mentioned the incident to a twenty year Cat mechanic and he said if it was a problem with the final drive it would be doing it all of the time, not just now and then. I have never witnessed or experienced final drive failure so I don't really know the progression of the early symptoms of final drive failure. For those who have experienced final trouble, how does final drive trouble present itself early on?
Normally the first signs are nasty-looking shards of metal on the magnet of the drain plug when you go to change the oil.
Loved the story of your doctor visit. I'm sure the look on his face was priceless. Sorry to hear about your dog though. Never fun to bury one. Sure hope you're not having final issues. I think I might have to hear it one more time before I drained the oil, unless you haven't changed it yet. In which case it might be worth pulling the plug to check. I tend to remember our track popping once or twice but never again and that was probably couple hundred machine hours ago. Probably a rock.
Mine popped when i had a 951, but would only do it under heavy load pushing or very steep hills which contradicts what you were told. I am the farthest from a mechanic on these things but do know it would go fine on flat but pushing or turning where all load was on one track, that side would make popping sound but you could also feel it jumping teeth (or what ever was giving). Hope it was just a rock as well.
The new track is doing pop in noise, take some time to break in.
With the new track chains and sprocket rims installed there seems to be no way that the chain could jump a tooth on the sprocket. I think that it might be possible if the recoil spring got pushed in quite a ways for some reason? Pinhead, what ended up being your poping problem? Was it the beginning of final drive failure and if so, what was the fix? Until I experience the same pop again, I am going with Boone, it must have been a rock. (fingers crossed)
Once mine popped the first time, it continued under any load so there was no question. At that time i sold it to a guy down the road who fixed it. said it was right side final drive and he told me it costs around $1800 for everything. It didn't take him long. Had i know about this forum then and seeing all you guys have done and the help provided, I probably would have tried it myself vs selling and later buying another. Next time you take yours out, go for a hard push/dig and see if the tracks spin on the ground w/o popping, if so I don't think its the same as mine.
Nitelite That track loader looks like it just drove off the assembly line. You definitely did some good quality work.
Thanks for the comment dixon! I don't use it a whole lot but it is nice to climb on it and fire it up when I do need it. By the time I finished with the rebuild of the 951 it was a little late in the dry season to tackle cleaning out the lake. It looks like that will be my spring project. I used the D4-E for a small project a few days ago. The old gal fired right up and preformed well. I suspect that the left side track adjuster needs re packing. I didn't need to add grease but things have gotten a little loose on that side. I bought two kits and rebuilt the right side in the spring. I just never got around to doing the right side. No big deal, I'll get it done this winter, sometime before spring.
Seat time on the D4 Well, I used the D4-E to cut some 4 wheeler trails for the kids today. I blew a hydraulic hose going to the tilt cylinder out on the blade. I didn't quit working on the trails, I just didn't touch the tilt lever. It was most unhandy with the crippled blade just following the contour of the ground more or less. Tomorrow, if the rain ends, I will remove both hoses and see about having some made up. Might as well take care of that leaking track adjuster at the same time.Has anyone got a lead on having hoses made somewhere around the Nashville Tn. area? Family fun day! You can see in the picture all of the hydraulic fluid that spued from the tilt hose when it blew out.
Any good industrial hose shop should be able to handle that one, then there is always the Cat dealer. That oil will help keep the rust away. But I'm sure you will get it cleaned up fast before the dirt starts sticking to it.
Our local NAPA makes hydraulic hoses , the hose part is good , the ends are cheap looking compared to what a CAT dealer would have. Generally speaking that's one thing CAT sells that is priced in line are hoses.
I got the tilt hydraulic hose replaced today. No big job at all. $34.00 at NAPA. The price was reasonable and the hose is well made, or so it seems. Now to re pack the left track adjuster. I'll get that done tomorrow if the rain will hold off. It will be nice to operate with the ability to tilt again. You can see, in the picture by the scuffed paint on the rail, how much the track adjuster let the idler move after two hours working time. The old hose being replaced. Yep kshansen, I have a Purple Power pressure washing in the old gal's immediate future to remove that hydraulic fluid.
really nice job you have done on this loader, and i have sent you a private message if you dont mind responding. thanks
wlf89, I just sent you a pm in answer to your pm. If you don't get it let me know. This is where Jeff works and the best place to buy your overhaul kit for the 330. I will get back to you in a few days with more info that you requested, or you can call me. http://www.offroadeq.com/en/Company/Contact Us
up and running again. I did take the time to rebuild the track adjuster on the D4-E. I have spent quite a few hours working on 4 wheeler trails through the woods for the grand kids to ride on. One afternoon I had to use the loader to move jumbled tree tops on a steep hillside that had been left by the loggers. Too dangerous to attempt to move with the dozier unless I had first spent some time with a chain saw. There was no tension left in the rubbish pile but the tops were too long to punch into the trees. I had to pick them up to move them out of the way to where they needed to go. The dozier would have moved them but it was faster and safer using the loader. It is nice to have the choice.
Overhauling the track adjuster Some pictures,
Poppa got to have something to ride too! I bought this 2015 Honda Pioneer used, with only 29 miles on it. That is not a ford explorer pulling it, it is really a rain deer! Such a good deal, I bought his trailer too! Drove to Knoxville Tn. to get it This tool really does come in handy when working on the equipment. If I didn't have one it would be a priority on my wish list
Have a Happy New Year HEF!
Happy New Year! You must have been a good boy to get that Pioneer - sweet ride!! I like the matte black. Great to hear you're still fixing those trail clearing babies up. You'll have no excuse for side-swiping trees if you're clearing with those machines. I've been doing much the same, except using the chainsaw. Our woods were logged about 30 years ago, so the "mess" is gone. Winter time is a great time for doing it. I have about a 1/3rd of what I want to do so far. May have to use the loader for some spots, but so far so good with the ole stihl.
Good to hear from you boone. The chain saw would simplify things but my implanted defibulator really does not like me using the chain saw. I do still use one on occasion, but only in a have to case. It is much too wet around here to do any real work. The ground is just rotten.
I'd like to have the Pioneer 1000 , 5 seater. My 2 girls love to ride. I have an 08 Kawasaki Teryx that has been a tough machine. and still is at 2500 miles. If the 943 I bought holds up I may more serious about the Pioneer. What is yours , the 700?
Buddy of mine has the Pioneer 500. He's had really good luck with it. It's the first side by side I'd ridden in and what sold me on getting one. Hope my Ranger holds up like your Teryx. Had it a year and so far so good.
Nitelite you have some nice looking machines. i really enjoy following this thread and have learned a thing or two!!
My Pioneer is the 700-4. The rear seats will lay down to create the rear bed. So far it seems to be just what I needed. I can haul grand kids around or use it as a tough work machine around here.
wlf89 I just sent you an email answering your request for the overhaul kit numbers and extra gaskets needed for your D330 engine. Good luck!
This gives new meaning to the term "WISH LIST"
More work and play Some more pictures
Looks like someone needs to build a wider trailer!Or at least add on to the sides of that one. That thing should have 3204 in it!
I think he is powered by more than 500 HP but it is a gas burner.
That thing is like a beautiful , voluptuous woman. A money pit that's never happy unless your spending more.
time for serious safety equipment
It has full ROPS and seat harnesses, carries a fire extinguisher and first aid kit. Seriously, what else does it need?
Sense in operating it for one. I have done stupid things with machines but that little vixen would be a bad habit run amok!!
A little functioning grey matter in the head of the nut that's attached to the steering wheel maybe..?
I haven't been doing much in the way of dirt work lately. For a period there I ran into a few health snags but things are about back to normal. I went out and started the dozier and loader yesterday, let them run for a while. They had not been started since early March. Both machines fired right up and I moved them to a new summer time parking place. The VA gave me a grant to build on to my home and I have been getting bids for that project. The bidders figured $800 for removal of a 30 inch white oak tree that is in the way of construction and another $950 to remove an old rotten shed. I think that with the dozier and loader I can save that money. I will also save on a demolition dumpster, I told the contractor to just pitch it in the dump truck and they will never see it again. Nice to get a little return on my investment in the machines. I still need to drain that lake and clean it out but now days I just don't get in a hurry, but I did manage to get a little bit of grease under my fingernails earlier in the week. I had to overhaul the carburetor on the M151 Army Jeep. Just to keep the proper smell about myself, I did clean my hands in diesel fuel when I got the job finished. I keep up and read the forum . I will post and get some pictures when I can.
Nice to see you back James. People were getting worried about you when you hadn't posted for the best part of 6 months.
Yes good to hear from you! :waving I know how "projects" can take over your time. We thought we had a "little" problem with our septic system, just needed routine pumping. Well turns out the old cast iron pipe through the foundation was broke then found out the tank was falling apart inside only thing that might be salvageable are the leach lines. So this Friday they are coming to replace the tank and the same day the carpenters are coming to begin the remodel of the bathroom and wife has to be out of town due to a death in her extended family. Now why can't I get that project of putting the old Yamaha/sidecar on the road. Oh and wife asked yesterday if we were going to take a vacation this summer! Don't know how I ever found time to hold down a full time job for 45 years!
Very glad to see a post, had been a bit worried if not perplexed why none. My own projects are a bit to the overwhelming state as well, with my old farm tractor coming or actually BEEN DUE for a overhaul for some time, the old Allis crawler is showing signs of degradation to where I really need to get on it yet I still have the farm, full time job and new house as well shop, maintenance on autos, maintenance on yard etc calling for time!! Health issues could put a stop to all but necessities at any time.
Just finished reading this thread from start to finish, great information being shared by great people. Very nice to see! I'm looking forward to seeing pictures from the upcoming lake cleaning project!
Are you putting diesel behind your ears before your doc visit? I'm sure that has him steaming. Glad you're taking it nice and slow and getting your health about you. Like the other's I've missed your updates and was a bit worried about you.
Good to hear from you guys. Rusted Heroes, if you were able to take the time to read the entire thread, you must have a lot of time on your hands. Just so you know boone, I quit buying hair oil a long time ago. A drop or two of diesel fuel works better. If someone wants to know what the smell is, just point to the CAT emblem on your cap. There is also an explanation as to the health issues that tend to slow me down a bit now and then. Back when I was in the military service my duties included defoliation using Agent Orange. The proper mixture was 1 part of AO to 50 parts of diesel fuel. My instructions was to mix 1 part of the AO to 5 parts Diesel fuel. The smell that was created was what reminded me of burned plastic, something about like insulation burning in an electrical fire. My defoliation duty was done soon after daylight wearing a T shirt, after the spraying I would remove the wet T shirt and put on my uniform shirt, so that is what I smelled like the rest of the work day. It didn't seem like a problem back then because I worked alone, out in the boonies as a military game warden. Straight diesel fuel is a pleasant odor compared to that stuff. My duty assignment was top secret but was declassified in 2003. The Agent Orange chemical formula is 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. The mixture contains Dioxin. Dioxin is the most toxic chemical known to man and it does not occur in nature. If one ounce of Dioxin was evenly distributed in a line of railroad diesel tanker cars 1/2 mile long, and then one drop leaked from any of those tankers, it would be enough to kill a mouse. In other words, it don't make good hair oil! If you are curious, and would like to see who I am, just do a google search and type into your browser. agent orange fort gordon
My dad was in Vietnam from 1967 to early 1969. He died in 2000 due to pancreatic cancer. I often wonder if agent orange had something to do with his cancer. He was in engineering and demolition ,basically he was young and good at climbing ( housing tobacco). His job was to set charges and then his friend would blow it. They also done a lot of dozing and road repair.
Yes Dickjr, I know that anyone who was boots on the ground in Vietnam was exposed to agent orange in one form or another. The drums were emptied and a gallon or so remained that the hand pump suction hose failed to reach, The drums were then repurposed and used to store gasoline, diesel fuel, water for a shower or bath and cut in half for taking a crap in. The tainted gasoline from the drums was then burned in vehicles and generators creating a product called aerosol orange as it spewed it from the exhaust pipes of military vehicles, killing all of the trees along the roadsides of down town Da Nang. Spray drift also killed an entire rubber plantation that the US ended up paying for. There was a 1oo foot defoliated circle around running generators. Some generators were self powered but many of those generators were powered by the front PTO shaft of our trusty Jeeps. My neighbor was a dozer operator in Nam with an outfit called the Jungle Eaters. They used, I think, D-7 or D-8 Cats running eight abreast, pulling Rhome Plows clearing jungle to expose the enemy and thereby denying a hiding place. The VC, in the night, would bury unexploded ordinance ( bombs) in their path. If the explosion occurred in front of the blade they had a chance. If it went off behind the blade or under the tractor the operator had pulled his last lever. The violent explosion flipped and destroyed the tractor and many were lost. Those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end!
My dad never really talked much about it. Some guy in the local reserves was telling my dad how bad the first gulf war was. Come to find out the were artillery , when they got over there , they lost they're weapons and basically spent 3 months at the gulf doing nothing. That was one time I seen my dad flare up. He nailed his azz. I have pictures of the equipment they used , D7 look to be and loaders. When he was in the hospital he told me about a lot of what went on. He was 18 when he went , my brother was 6 months old , and I was 2 cells getting ready to meet about Christmas of 1972. I lost a lot of respect for Muhammed Ali because he refused to go quoting " I ain't got no quarrel with the Vietcong". I don't think you did either and I don't think my dad knew what a freakin Vietcong was. But you all went. My cousin was over there when my Dad was , he asked my Dad to go back in the mid 90s because he thought it was a beautiful country , my Dad said he hoped to never see that hell hole again.
Great job on the rebuild. I wish my loader was in that good of shape. I have a 951c loader I'm having issues with. The loader went down a few years ago and sat until a month ago. My neighbor pulled the engine to help me out. I put new bearings back in and put the engine back in. I don't know how exactly it wires back up.my neighbor can't remember how it was either. I had the starter and alt hooked up ,but it wound up shorting the starter and reversing polarity on two of the 6volt batteries. Put in new batteries , starts runs fine however I didn't hook up alternator. I have what appears to be three red wires coming to the starter from the harness I assume two go to the top starter terminal ?one white wire goes to solenoid from the switch to activate starter , other whit wire with a black stripe to ground side solenoid not sure if the other red wire goes to the alt or how alternator wires up. I don't know if yours would be the same colored wires or not. I have a 951b loader that the starter has been robbed off of and has different colored wires and the alternator is on the opposite side. So I'm at a loss Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Lot of interesting information there Nitelite. Dad and I were talking about your post this weekend while working at the farm. He was in the guard for 6 years during that time and their company was told they were going over. They got all new equipment and then plug was pulled on it and it never happened...thankfully. We had a family friend (Travis) that had been over there and had been exposed to a lot of AO. He'd really been messed up over there. Travis was telling my dad once he'd escaped death so many times he couldn't count. He said he should be dead. During a march through the jungle, they always had a point man that walked a few hundred feet or so in front of the company. One day, the sargent told Travis he was going to be point man today...it was basically a death sentence. Travis told the sarg he wasn't feeling well and was sick. The sarg looked over and pointed to the guy next to him and said you're point man. He said just a few minutes into their patrol, the guy was shot. Hope my boys never have to go through anything like it.
Tcsmc, I am in Ashland City Tennessee, thirty miles North West of Nashville, I will go out shortly and see if I can give you the coloring of my wires. My machine is a 951-C with the earlier model 330 engine.
Freedom don't come cheap! Somebody paid! Boone, it is really easy to forget that we are at war as we speak. Our boys are being shot up, blown up, and killed every day. If we don't circle the wagons and commit to defending ourselves in an all out push, Orlando will be repeated over and over. We need to start fighting to win!
Thanks for the reply nitelite, the older 951b loader I have is probably a 330 engine as well . It's set up a little different than the 3304 on my 951c model. I think the 951b has a blue wire to the starter. It looks like In the pictures of your loader, the alternator is on the same side as my 951c. Looks like a lot of different setups on these old loaders.
Starter wiring 951-C with 330 engine Here are pictures of the starter wiring before I did the overhaul. I did go out earlier today to look at the wiring but since the new paint job, all of the wires are Cat yellow. I don't have pictures of the alternator wiring before the wires were painted but there is only one wire coming from the battery to the hot post of the alternator and then a ground wire from the alternator to the engine block. You also need to make sure that your frame to engine wire is connected and in good working order. Not able to see a lot but maybe just enough to help you out.
Will probably need to do a continuity check for each wire individually if has been 'repaired' by adding different wire of different colors. Should be one wire from alternator discharge to hot post of starter(solenoid) or to main disconnect switch starter side, grounds all attach to the engine block with a cross connect from the large ground post on the starter motor end to the engine block. Will have to be a feed wire again from the main hot post of solenoid up to controls on off switch and if electronics involved a split on that feed to those electronics or fed from the switch. Starter button wire goes to the S terminal on the solenoid and the opposite terminal goes to the ground post or has a ground bar to the starter frame. Best ground will always be to the starter motor frame post, from it to the engine I would install at least a 1/0 lugged ground wire for best conductivity. At least it isn't a old generator tractor as mine is where that has three wires in of itself.
I'm probably going to have to pull instrument panel and start tracing wires. I made sure I had a good ground to the frame. The alternator showing putting out 13v on one terminal and 7volts on the small Wire I thought would be a ground. Maybe my alternator is bad. I might as well take it off and go get it checked. I've been running the loader a little in the evenings without alternator hooked up and it starts and runs fine. Today after running it about 30 mins it overheated and started blowing water out of the cap. Probably radiator plugged? Always something to work on around my place. Thanks again guys for the info,any information is always appreciated. It's good to see others that work with this older equipment.
Any chance of posting a picture of the Alternator? Might help someone figure out what it is and how it should be wired. Even better is there a tag on it with some numbers?
Before you go to a lot of trouble, check your radiator cap and cap gasket. Could be that you just need a new gasket. Also, if you overfill the radiator the old gal will belch as it really gets warm, until the proper "hot" level is reached.
I took the Pioneer down to the lake yesterday to bring the 14' john boat up to the shop to repair some holes in its side that look like they were made from buckshot at about twenty yards distance. The damage was done before I got the boat. I can stop the leaks with bolts and rubber washers. I will use the boat to go out and pull the brass gate valve to drain the lake. I need to find the drain and hook it with a piece of steel tubing that is about twenty five feet long. The drain is in twenty six feet of water but it sits off of the bottom about five feet. The process is to put four 5 gallon buckets full of water in the front of the boat to hold the front end down, paddle out to a spot and with the transom just above the drain and tie the boat off at two points on the bank to keep it from drifting away from the spot. While standing up in the back of the boat and feeling with the tubing hook the drain, bend at the knees and snatch up with all the strength that I have. It has been twenty years since I have opened the drain and cleaned out the lake. I have a ten foot john boat down there but it is not stable enough for me to stand up and pull the drain. I had the two grand daughters with me, ages 5 and 8. While I was loading the boat they were watching the water ripple. I had taken them on their first kids fishing rodeo last Saturday and they each caught their very first fish. They both got a 1 1/2 lb. catfish in three hours of hard fishing and they loved it. Seeing the ripples they wanted to know what was causing it and I answered, "fish". That did it, they wanted to go fishing! Oh papa, please please. No one has fished in that lake in the last ten years. I couldn't refuse. I had to go get the lawnmower and cut the weeds on the dam. Eight to ten inch trees had grown up on the dam at the waters edge, so thick that there was no way to cast a line into the water. I had to put a chain on the tree trunks and fell several into the lake and then drag them out of the water with the tractor. I cut them up into firewood and will burn them for a future weiner roast with the kids and grand kids this fall. I pushed the brush over the back side of the dam. There was aquatic weeds growing out from the base of the dam to about 5 feet out. No way to cut them from the bank and no way to drag a fish across them if they caught one. I used the ag tractor to bring about fifteen front loader loads of clay to reach out and cover the weeds. I couldn't use the Cat 951 because I had to cross a concrete bridge at the spillway. Next I had to treat the entire dam for ticks. I spent twelve hours working on that dam project. This evening we got worms, crickets, tackle, and new zebco 33 fishing rods. Avery caught the first fish, a large shellcracker. Alex refused to let me cast her bait to a good spot and insisted that she could do it all by herself. Continued in next post.
Avery continued to catch bream and shellcrackers and Alex continued to wrestle with her tackle getting hung up. I baited hooks and removed the fish. Avery was catching fish so quickly that I could not keep up. Mandy, my daughter was trying to bait the hooks but she was more afraid of the crickets than the bait was afraid of her. Avery was cranking in a five inch sunfish and had about twenty feet to go. I saw a large mouth bass, about six or eight lbs. race out from the opposite bank and attack that sunfish. The bass must have immediately swallowed the sunfish because Avery cranked and pulled. The bass broke water several times but refused to give up the sunfish. I had the drag set pretty light on the Zebco and it was doing some singing as the fish ran with the ten pound test line and the sunfish on a #6 wire hook. I called to Mandy, "get the dip net", "quick". The net was stuck behind the cooler inside the Pioneer. Let me tell you, there was a mammoth battle going on between a five year old and a hungry largemouth bass over a five inch sunfish. The kids were screaming while Mandy and I were hollering back and forth about the stuck dip net. Avery got the largemouth bass to the bank but the edge of the newly formed clay bank was too unstable and I was sinking over my shoes but I just couldn't reach the fish that fighting so hard to get away. Mandy was handing me the net as the big bass regurgitated the sun fish. The largemouth escaped the dinner plate but Avery got her sunfish. After the excitement Alex agreed to let her mom help her cast her line and she ended up catching three or four fish. Avery caught about fifteen and papa had a wonderful fathers day fishing with the kids. We only got to fish an hour and a half before dark overtook us. The fish are cleaned and in the freezer. Something tells me that I will have to go fishing tomorrow, how can I resist, oh papa, please,please? Now I will never get that drain open in order to drain and clean out the lake. I can hear their cries now, but papa, where did all of the water go and what happened to our fish? When I get that john boat fixed I will teach them how to gig summertime bull frogs from a boat using a flashlight after dark. We might even see a snake or two. I will try to post pictures on the HEF forum tomorrow. Happy fathers day to all!
I fully intend to build a pond by the house, one for animal water, two for runoff control and three for fire water supply to the local volunteer corp. Really need it for insurance pricing reduction for the last hit.
My lake does not reduce my insurance rates. We are more than five miles from the nearest fire plug and we pay a hefty premium because of that. The lake is about 500 feet from the house.
Extended Fathers' Day fun Fishing with the girls in my lake Those cat tails need to go Alex has a fish they are fishing hard They wanted a place to sit down You can see where I covered the weeds with the clay
the fun continues More pictures Crossing the concrete bridge over the spill way. I built that bridge more than thirty years ago. the water's edge after it was cleaned off. clay covering the weeds Fire wood for the fall wiener roast Two neglected old cats.
Here in MO with our all volunteer fire department if we set up a dry hydrant in the pond bank it reduces our rate but only by a few percent, just having access to a water supply here makes all the difference as we do not have a county system as yet. I get it set up also have to let them use it for other fires close by but I do not mind.
Looks like some good memories being made. At least your not letting the weeds grow up around those cats.
We also have county wide volunteer fire service. They charge the taxpayers a fire tax that is added to the property tax bill every year. The fire service is not too dependable and they don't recognize a lake as being a viable water source to fight a fire. They use a pumper truck and a portable swimming pool that they use as an on site reserve. Not a chance for a discount from the insurance company. We are in a ISO rating of 10. We have Farm Bureau insurance.
Neglected Cats Hello boone, I just cut the grass and parked them there last week. They are not really neglected, I spend more on those Cats than I spend on my wife. They both have full fuel tanks. My wife's car only has half a tank and I always buy something for the Cats for Mothers Day, Fathers day too.
Nitelite those are great pictures. I'm sure those kids will always remember the lake and time spent with them. Definitely can't drain it now. Haha. I haven't had time to mess with the old loader but I went out and took some pictures and checked the water level in the radiator, it was still visible so I'm gonna run it some this weekend and see what happens.took pics of the alternator, still haven't hooked it up yet. Starts good and runs good so I will fix on it when I can make some time. I've benn clearing and digging out for a new shop.
I'm not too good at posting pictures. Maybe I will get used to it. I couldn't find any numbers on the alternator without removing the side cover.
Tcsmc, you can't check the radiator level on that machine while it is standing on the fuel tank as pictured! Stand it up right on its tracks on level ground to check the water level. just kidding, I had some trouble posting pictures too. In the pictures it appears that you are running one loose track chain and the other side looks to be too tight?
This link might help you out with the alternator wiring. http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=rrtips&th=27917
Thanks for the link, I will trace it all out when I get a chance. I have a bad seal on the track adjuster cylinder. I had the track shimmed out with a block and noticed it fell out the last time I ran it. I looked at your pictures, doesn't look too bad to rebuild. It will probably take a long time for me, everything around the house always goes wrong and takes five times longer than it should.
Those track tension cylinders are no big deal and the seal kits are inexpensive at Off Road Equipment in Alcoa Tn. You might consider rebuilding both sides at the same time. The second one will take you half of the time that the first one did and then you will be set. I rebuilt one side on the D4-E and it wasn't three months until I had to do the other side. I rebuilt both sides at once on the 951-C when I replaced the sprocket rims and track chains.
I hope it's easy to replace the seals in the track tensioner, never done that before. It needs new sprockets,rails and pads.more money than the machine is worth probably. But you can't buy newer machines in good shape any cheaper. It's paid for and doesn't cost anything sitting around. Seems like everything I have needs something on it to be fixed. I've sold a lot of equipment over the last two years, told someone the other day that the best way to not work on stuff is to not have it.
If my old machines had not been in disrepair I could not have afforded to own them. I have more time than money and I don't mind a little hard work. There is a certain amount of a feeling of accomplishment in knowing that you took junk and turned it into something useful again. Just run it until something needs fixing, fix it and go again. It would work the same way if you had a new machine I suspect.
Nitelite, Agree on that! Sometimes(or maybe all the time) my wife thinks I crazy for spending time fixing things like the old snow blowers I have that are around 40 years old. She says why not buy one new one? Well for the price of one new one I can keep four of the old ones in good working condition and if I had one new on and something broke on it I would have zero working. But with three or four old ones if one does break in two minutes I'm back to work cleaning out the driveway! I did buy a new snowblower about 45 years ago but once I started acquiring the others that people gave me because they did not think they were worth fixing I ended up giving that one away as the "free" ones gave me less trouble than the almost new one!
Same here! Its nice coming on this forum to find that there are like minded people out there. When people ask what i'm doing this weekend and I reply with something like oh you know just tearing the undercarriage off a Cat that's older than I am (with a great big grin on my face) the reactions I get are priceless. Same when my father stops over to see what i'm working on, and there I am swinging an 8 pound sledge for two hours trying to get some bolt unstuck! he just shakes his head and says you do this for fun!? There is definitely a sense of accomplishment when you repair something and get it going and also I find it makes you take care of EVERYTHING better because you know first had what it takes to make repairs.
My wife is the reason I don't have a lot more things to fix. I'm glad we don't have snow blowers here. I would probably have several of those around as well. I'm bad about bringing home "in my head "what would be such a cool project only to have them sit on death row until I finally make time to work on it. I do like working on things and it does leave a good sense of accomplishment. I think the older Machines are more durable, easier to fix. Comforts might not be there but also not the cost of buying new and then having to pay someone to fix when it breaks down.
Nitelite,I enjoy your posts,but was particularly impressed with your plug pulling thoughts and those 5 gallon drums!!
Yes nicky, You can bet that I will be wearing a life vest. The old knees and my balance is not what it was twenty years ago. The last time I used large rocks as weight in the front of the boat. It will be much easier to put the empty drums in the front of the boat and then dip them full of lake water.
I got the 951-C out for a while yesterday and stretched its legs a little bit. The old gal sure does run great. I have a hill to put into a hollow. Thin top soil with the bulk being hard clay mixed with yellow rock. Yellow rock digs fairly easy with the loader teeth or the dozier blade tilted a bit. I plan to take down the trees and clear the top soil with the 951 and dump truck. Then use the D4E to do the bulk pushing. Maximum push distance will be 300 ft. I am thinking on working back to front slot dozing. It will be a down hill push to begin with but it will level out as the hill is taken down. The project end use will be for a concrete pad 24'x60' for a equipment shed. Pole barn type building. No hurry at all, just taking whatever time it takes to dig it out and level a place for the pad. Tomorrow I might get some pictures to post.
I began the day putting the belly pans back on the 951. I procrastinated on putting the plates back on after overhauling the engine. Being that I have quite a bit of clearing trees and brush in the woods, I need the skid plates. I got the skid plates back on and noticed a fuel leak at the hour meter. That took some doing to get it to stop leaking so it was after noon when I got started clearing trees. I had one 14' white oak that came over backwards on me. I am thankful for ROPS.
Clearing land is one of the most dangerous things you can do imo. The roots under ground can pull in ways you can't see. Good to hear the 51 is out and about again. I'm in a love hate relationship myself right now.
The trees that might hurt you are all laying on the ground now. A bit of chain saw work remains to sort the logs and dispose of the stumps and tops. I need a bit of firewood for a wiener roast for the grandkids anyway. I had a track chain slip a tooth a couple of times while in a real hard strain while backing up and turning. I did work the machine really hard and it surprised me that there was a tooth slip at all. It has a new track chain, sprocket rims and new pads. The spring is in good shape. I think that I might need to check the track and make sure that the linkage is adjusted correctly. The machine is a power shift, pedal steer. I think I need to make sure that the track clutch engages before the track brake is applied. That track has also loosened a little more than the other side but not excessive. I have not adjusted the tracks since I replaced them. Now its time to follow up with bulk pushing with the dozier. For some reason I can't down load pictures from my smart phone to my computer. When I get that problem solved, I will post pictures.
If your rails , sprockets are new your track has to be loose. My 43 lost a track adjuster and with loose tracks the sprocket will load up and jump. Even with little to no load. If your adjuster is leaking (is it hydraulic?) , If you fix mine I'll fix yours in exchange.
Yes Dickjr. the adjusters are hydraulic and I resealed both sides when I replaced the track chains in mid 2015. I think that maybe the new chains wore in with a little use, one more than the other. I just did not really notice it until it slipped. The new chains and sprockets only have maybe eight hours on them at this time. I have been keeping up with your threads, sounds like you are having some of my kind of luck lately. Are we having fun yet? No deal on the i'll fix yours, you fix mine. From the sound of some of the posters like GI yours is a lot more work than mine. Where in Ky. are you? I go up to Fort Campbell often and sometimes to Grand Rivers.
I have thought about final drives, but the tractor has to be under a tremendous load to slip. I'll tighten the tracks to specs and see what happens. I would cringe at the thought of replacing the final drives on the machine. I am thinking that if the recoil spring compressed under the right kind of load while backing up a steep grade and turning, the chain might be able to slip a tooth. Is that possible?
Pictures Now I finally got pictures! Most of the clearing done No big trees left that might hurt me Quite a bit of dirt to move to get to grade and level a pad for the shed. I figured on drilling for the post but judging from the hardness and rock down that deep it may have to go on a concrete slab.
What seems to happen from my experience , the sprocket segments will load up and the chain will "bunch" up somewhat and when it unloads it pops and when reversing it feels like a slip. I am using GI's method to remove my track frame. Believe it or not , I put my idler and rail together at 3 this afternoon , came to town got the lowboy picked up the 43 brought it to the shop and almost got the track frame off by 5:30. Broke some bolts but I plan to heat and melt was like Nige has suggested many times before. This forum has saved me a lot of money and I thank the folks for the help. This is my living. There have been times I thought about cashing out buying a bicycle and hitting the road.
Dry down your way looks like. Its dry here as well. How far are you from Franklin?
The old gal Right track looks a little loose, but not enough to slip! Before I use it again i'll adjust the tracks. This is the left track. Not quite as loose as the right side. She is just waiting for me to get some time for some more work. Up on top of the hill to her left is where I am working. I am intend to take out the hill to level with where the machine sits now. There are some small leafless trees sitting on the bank out ahead of the bucket. I will start to terrace the hill about there.
Yea, really dusty too. We could use a little rain. This dryness will get the air filters in a hurry. If you got all of that done today, you had a good day. I burned the entire day forming, welding, and making brackets to add some powerful LED lights on my Honda pioneer. 40" LED in the front and 5" LEDs on the back. I still didn't get the wiring done but I am close. It should come in handy lighting up the area wherever the machines are ready for lubing and fueling etc at the end of the day. I sometimes tend to work too late. I am about thirty five miles from Franklin Tn. Franklin Ky is maybe 60 miles or so.
Toying around again, this sort of stuff is why I don't get much real work done! My project to add the lights to the Honda Pioneer, the rear LEDs The front 40 " LED. overhead shop lights and the reflecting flash makes it hard to see. It will be in a Veterans parade tomorrow. My daughter and grandkids will be in it. I will drive my M151-A1 Vietnam era military jeep pulling two tandem trailers with 26 bales of straw for riders to sit on. I can carry up to 54 people. These are the brackets that I needed fabricate in order to mount the front light. It don't look like it would be all that complicated and time consuming to come up with those brackets to mount the light, but it was for a simple minded fellow!
NiteLite, this is a fantastic thread, I love the rebuild of equipment and the story behind it, keep up the great work and your ingenuity is second to none!!!
Thanks for the post Hobbytime. I spent most of my life dirt poor as most of us were back then, now that I look back at it, we didn't know that we were poor. Most work available back then was manual labor and it took some good old common sense to get by, along with a little imagination and ingenuity. Now days it is called tinkering with something that should have been thrown away a long time ago. I have never thrown away anything that was still half way good, and I am not about to start now. In 1997, a friend and I had heart attacks and we both qualified for heart transplant. I elected to repair and keep what I had while my friend elected to go for the new heart. He got his new heart but has been gone three years now and I am still tinkering. There is a lot of satisfaction in using that has been given new life. I enjoy what ever time that it is that I have left.
My Dad taught me the starters for being a mechanic and some carpentry, Grandpa on his side did some too as they had grown thru the Depression having little and making do with discards from others. I went to Tech school directly after my military service then off to work for real for a living buying tools, saving odd bolts/nuts/scraps of machinery that most have come in handy over 40 years working. I can relate to tinkering to make something work a little longer or bringing back to life. My old Allis does the same with rail snapping and popping, I dare say in a straight line is not an issue but when I turn and back up it is the wear on my pins and bushings that is showing as the rails will ride up the idlers. My old machine needs much more re-work than yours, enjoy as long as you can playing in the dirt as we get older my friend I will continue to tinker until my hands give up.
That's a nice looking 951 Nitelite! I wish I had a ROPS like that on my 941. Once I get through my bucket list of repairs, if everything else is OK on it, I plan to look for a used ROPS for mine, if I can find one for a reasonable price.
I would be willing to wager that guys who own the newer machines may like their machine, but to own an older machine one has to actually love it. Have a good Veterans day Miller! I went to welding school on my GI bill.
If I am not the only one who experiences the loud popping sound, like a tooth slipping when in a strain while backing up, i'll just live with it and get used to it. It really does not make sense that it could jump a tooth because it would have to jump several at one time, not just one. It would be nice to have someone on the ground watch it when it actually happens. Dickjr's explination sounds about right, the thing about loading up and bunching at the sprocket. I'll just adjust the track chains, ride it, and just smile when the old gal complains about the novice operator by popping loudly! Then I'll promise, one more time, not to put her in that kind of strain again. Thanks guys!
fuel leak fix I can't be the only person on this forum that is tired of the pesky fuel leak at the transfer pump/ hour meter location on a D-330 or 3304 Cat engine. I rebuilt the transfer pump and replaced the hour meter last year. It always continued to drip from the hour meter. Here is the red neck fix for good. Remove the hour meter, two bolts with 5/16 12 point socket. Clamp meter in vice, do not crush. Use hacksaw to cut case from meter as shown, just behind the rim. remove and discard the guts including the shaft. Thread the shaft bushing with 1/4 fine thread. screw a short bolt into the hole with a gasket or o ring behind the head. make sure that the bolt does not protrude beyond, so as to interfere with the pump shaft. Bolt the part back to the machine. Go play in the dirt and put a new hour meter on your wish list, way down on the bottom of the list.
Is your track still jumping? What does the manual say about track tension if you have it? One thing the spring loads and unloads but we have to consider wear on the rollers and idlers to see why its jumping. From the pics it does not look loose , but the manual may suggest otherwise. Can you get someone to get on it so you can watch it back up and move forward. I've been looking for a weekend get away this might work. I don't mind working on equipment as long as someone else is footing the bill.
I don't know that it would do it while someone was watching, but maybe, if I really tried to strain it while backing up in the right situation. It don't do it all that often. When I hear the track pop I can look real quick and actually see the tension recover in the top of the track. Imagine this, if the spring got under a load and compressed enough for the track to slip, after the slip and the loud pop, the spring would return to its full length. From the seat looking down at the track you would see the track quickly stretch back out as it recovered. I have considered a final drive slip, if that were the case, in my reasoning, there would be no visible recovery of the track tension from the operator seat that I can think of. Your idea of the track bunching behind the idler or sprocket makes sense to me. My front idlers look good to me. One of my front single lower rollers has a chip broke out of an outer flange but I can't see that causing a problem. I'll post some idler and roller pictures when I get the chance. Yes, that might make a good days road trip for you or you and the Mrs. and I just might spring for a steak dinner pop or no pop. I am always glad to meet another person whose blood runs thick a upon the sound of a Caterpillar engine firing up.
Nitelight, I experience the same thing from time to time with my 941B. Its usually when I'm in a bind in a stump hole and put it in a hard turn. Not real sure what causes it. I just try to not put it in a situation where I think it'll do it. Does it less now than when I first started using it. My current leak is oil around the filter housing but haven't been using the machine enough lately to address it yet.
Pin/Bushing wear is not limited to external My old rails are snakey due to internal pin and bushing wear that can allow them to twist then roll up on the idlers or sprockets. Measurements can be deceiving if the wear is at the ends of pins and bushings they can measure out OK but snake sideways.
Miller, The old rails that came off of the machine were snakey but not real bad. The old rails still had quite a bit of life left in them but the sprockets were really shot. I didn't really want to put the old rails on new sprockets. So now she sets on new SALT chains and new sprocket rims. Nice welder, by the way! Are you done with the new house?
What a thread! I've spent my downtime over the last few days reading the entire thread, and I'm simply in awe of the amount of work that has gone into the transformation of this machine, even more so when taking into account your limited capacities! I'm completely able bodied (although unfit) and would have struggled with half what what you've done.
Oh HELL NO on the house!! Between two old and I MEAN OLD tractors and my own worn out frame I have my hands full trying to keep them functioning as well working the house! Even my F250 has gotten to the Old stage about to break over 18 years! I have tiled one of the last two baths and have the flooring for the basement rooms ordered, just keep having machinery issues currently severe enough carpal tunnel in my right hand to shut it down for use on occasion, that gets fixed or at least worked on today. Should not be down more than 3 weeks according to the doc. On the snaking of the rails, does not take much to roll them off when they start that, good to hear yours has new legs! Still don't know why the photos are posting sideways, are not filed that way. Recent tile work, and trust me setting the decorative tiles was the worst!:
Believe me when I say that I did struggle. To me there are few things more satisfying than taking something so close to scrap and making from it something that is capable of doing such a large amount of work. Those old machines sort of keep me going. I can fool with them in my own time and when I choose. I am sort of like those old worn out machines, as long as I can get spare parts and can find someone to repair me, I can continue to keep going and I feel like there is a lot of work left in me if I pace myself. Working by myself I have to get creative with heavy lifting but that is part of the job for anyone who tackles such a project. You must realize in the reading of the thread, I am playing and working on my bucket list. I tip my hat to you SIR for being a working man and making your living working in the dirt. As a young man, I would have loved to have had a chance to make my living working in the dirt with a machine of some sort. Thanks for your post!
Nice tile job Miller! I know all about old machines and old F250 pickups too. My old F250 has 76,000 miles on it now. I just put the second set of replacement tires on it. (dry rot) I bought it new in 1989, it is a F250 Lariat, HD, 4x4 7.3 CID diesel. Looks, runs, and drives like new, blows cold air and it is just shy of 28 years old. The old 1966 Ford F-600 dump truck is 48 years old but still gets the job done around here. Wish it had air and power steering but it is what it is. Yesterday I was using two chainsaws to cut logs and some firewood from where I am clearing and took down some 16" white oak trees with the loader. One of those saws is a 14" McCulloch Pro Mac 55 that I bought from Western Auto in 1970. The other is a 18" Homelite 330 that I bought in 1973. My loader and dozier are both 1978 models. Don't get me started on the age and condition of the operator of all of this old stuff! Good luck with the carpal tunnel. I didn't have mine worked on and that was a mistake made a long time ago. I started my house in 1975 and finished the house in 1978. In 2010 I did remove the linoleum from the bathroom floors in the kitchen and bathrooms and tiled the floors and shower, nothing fancy like you are doing though.
Worked way too late until dark:30 Got some seat time in this evening. Started out with the chainsaw getting rid of tree tops and cutting firewood. I don't burn the wood any more but I hate to just bury it in the hollow under tons of dirt. I was glad to be able to fire up the 951 and go to work moving dirt. I almost forgot to take pictures. I remembered about the time that it was getting dark. I lubed the tractor and checked fluids before starting today, also pumped grease in to tighten the right track. No popping noise from that track at all today. I think that **** jr was right about the slack bunching behind the sprocket making the track appear tighter than it actually was. The hill behind the tractor is what I am taking down. Finish grade will be where the tractor is sitting now. I will build a new equipment pole barn there with six stalls. I need a dry place to park the dozier, the track loader, two ag tractors, the dump truck and the F-250. It is getting too dark to work! The old loader is running so good and strong that I really hate to quit, just when I am really getting in the groove of things and becoming one with the loader. Being able to chew gum, pull levers and get my feet working in harmony at the same time. You know the feeling! Safety is a concern when it gets this dark considering the unevenness of the ground that I am working on. I am about ready to put the dozier on the job and start the down hill modified slot dozing for the bulk pushing. The developing burn pile. It is in the way but burn conditions are not near safe enough to burn it. We are expecting rain in the next few days. I think I'll begin at the top of the hill with the dozier and work my way down the grade to keep from getting too steep on the descent. So far I have just cleared the cut and removed the brush and trees. I ate away at the bottom of the grade with the loader for a while creating a work road, but if I keep eating away at the bottom with the loader it is going to get mighty steep. The only clearing left to do is the small cedar trees on the side hill. They will fall to the dozier blade when I get to it.
Looking great! Glad you got to play with the machine some. Yeah, weather and fires bad down your way...hope they get better soon. DB
Same here, I wish I had the time to get after some of the more needy grade jobs I have!! Perhaps after retirement I can get to down and in the dirt work too! Have tons of dead or dying(poisoned) Honey Locust to cook up after pushing out, then have a pond to build, more field roads to re-grade and a creek to work the bottom on for better drainage.
Well, we did get the expected rain today, that will ease the situation somewhat. I have been having to work many trips pushing around that burn pile. Hopefully this slow drizzle will last enough to get a burn permit.
Not enough rain to light up the brush pile yet. I moved a lot of dirt today. I was glad to get off of the chainsaw duty and back on the loader duty. The 951 is really preforming well. The power that the old gal is putting out is awesome and she runs and operates just as she should. I am about to the point that it will be more productive to put the D4-E in there instead of the loader. I was able to get in about five hours total running time in two days and no more loud popping out of the left track. Digging and pushing white oak stumps really worked the old loader hard, the ultimate test on the UC. The old engine ran at WOT the entire time with no problems and she seemed happy to do so. I ran this evening until it got so dark that I could no longer see the ground from the seat and I was happy to do so! Dirt under the fingernails beats grease under the fingernails any day. Tomorrow is another day, we hope!
How about a few more work in progress pics for everyone to see? Glad to hear that the 951 is earning her keep!
Taking down the hill and working on the new shop pad This dirt work is like eating a bowl of cheerios, take a spoon full at a time until it is all gone and then you are done. Those cedar trees don't have long to live and the taller white oaks on the left are going too. That track loader is nine feet tall so you can judge the scope of the work to be done. There is a lot of dirt in that hill side Finding a place to put all of that dirt is no problem, that hollow will hold a lot of dirt and make good level ground for a new parking area. These two trees will come down, and anything else that might one day fall on the new building. That old D4 is going to work shortly and those trailers will be moved to the new ground that I am building with the fill dirt in the hollow.
I didn't get a lot of time to work today, but got a little bit of dirt moved. As you can see, dark got me again.
All I can say is awesome, I do half that much and am happy.
Nice work there Nitelite.
Well, we got the rain all right. Much too wet to work now for sure. It will be a good opportunity to check out the machines,fluids and lube. Those folks up in East Tn. sure could have used some rain much earlier. Gatlinburg Tn. area folks are having a time with all of the wildfires burning their homes. I don't know if they got enough rain out of the latest weather front to extinguish the fires or not. I have fire breaks on my place and I try to maintain them regularly. About the only time a fire might jump a firebreak here would be when the leaves fall, but then again, all it takes is a little spark and some wind.
Still much too wet to do dirt work around here, I'll just do some tree removal until we can get some dry weather. good rain for the poor folks involved with the fires in the east Tn. area.
Still too wet, but what the hell! Well, she got some wet shoes and some mud between her toes today. Its cold and windy out there, about 40 degrees. I need a work road across that hollow to get at some of those trees. Now its looking better. just like eating Cheerios, a spoon full at a time.
Tomorrow is another day, hope I can get some dirt time in. I had to quit early, this old man just got too cold! That old loader is really acting right and it is a pleasure to operate. It is amazing how much better the controls and hydraulics work when the machine gets warmed up. She is just awesome! crossing fingers! :notworthy I am filling the hollow in as I go. I am thinking on just leaving the trees and continuing to fill in. Later I can cut them off about a foot or two before the dirt comes up to finish grade. They will eventually rot and need to be filled in, but I won't be around by the time that happens. My son can do that someday! I'll need to work that from the top down with the dozer, being really careful not to slide down. I will bench it as I go. I took this one for Metalman, I do have the C Frame under the seat. I am thinking that I can fab something up and attach the new back rest to the two vertical brackets that you can see behind the seat in the picture. The can is my exhaust cover, it rained in it because I forgot to put it on the exhaust pipe because it was smack dark when I quit the last time that I worked the old gal but it has a flapper on the pipe.
Has anyone seen those AM General M925A1 5 Ton 6X6 Cargo Trucks that are being auctioned off at Iron Planet. I just think that might have to have one of those . I went to the DMV yesterday to see how I could get a temp tag to drive one home from Indianapolis Indiana. The price that they are bringing is really right and insurance on one is really cheap. I am afraid to ask the State if I will need a CDL to drive it, for health reasons I can,t get a CDL. GVWR is just over 33,275 lbs. I have my eye on one coming up for auction.
how did you get the new style fuel cap to fit on that tank my spin on lock cap is busted from someone stealing fuel
Yes oldgold, it is as Dickjr says. The base has female threads and it just screws on to the existing filler neck. The cap was on the machine when I bought it. I keep a lock on it but the last time I fueled up I forgot to put the lock back on the cap. I left it laying on the fuel tank and I'll bet that you can guess what happened to it.
There is a "kit" to rebuild those lever operated fuel caps I always kept a couple in stock as at the quarry they would get plugged up often. Oh also kept at least one spare cap for when operators would forget to replace them. Some times got lucky and boss would find the missing cap on haul road before a truck ran over it. Then it was just a case of checking all the equipment to see which one was missing the cap!
GONE Forever! I have lost a lot of pieces that way too. Is below twenty here last two days old Fat Allis sits quietly awaiting some heat, won't start this cold or will but is hard on it.
Twenty here right now. Old cats will fire right up with 30 seconds glow time. Dump truck (gas) refuses to start, I think I flooded it with too much choke.
My 43 fired up ok this morning , no glow plugs or ether. Rolled about 20 seconds 2 times cranked the second time. I always take my time , cycle the hydraulics kind of ease into it for 20 minutes or so. Then its w.o.t.
Fat Allis is a lot more tired than your machines. Due for overhaul (I cannot get time for), due for a LOT of small repairs mainly trans hydraulics(again cannot get time for) so I leave her sit and wait. Nothing that important right now as I wait on my hand to heal fully. Scar has closed and skin along edges sloughing showing replacement from surgery invasion. Tenderness is almost ALMOST gone, just have to be careful not to use it for a hammer as used to! Next up finish the basement rooms in the house, baths are almost there, flooring is here for the main and bed rooms then trim work and can fill them back up!! Then Allis and I can wrestle awhile.
What is that red neck up to now? Those White Oaks between the house and the shed are in the wrong place at the wrong time! Not a lot of room to work. Getting the loader in position. What is that dozer doing down there? This is going to be a two machine job! yep, I am going to gang bang those trees using both the D4-E and the 951-C! I have the plan and i am ready to execute it.
Those trees are about 80 ft tall, maybe a little better. I am going to build on to that end of the house. I can't cut them and then dig the stumps because they are just about in the footing line. Too much ground disturbance for the new foundation. Coming down the wrong way would crush the house and/or the shed. That shed will come down in the spring to make way for a new three car garage. I need to save it for now, that is where I winter my ag tractor. For comparison, Those are 36" windows, that tree is 14 feet from the end of the house and five feet from the shed.
Precarious, nervous In the picture it appears that the tractor is pushing the tree, not the case, my 1/2" chain is in the bucket. I got the chain hooked high up in the tree. y heavy You guessed it. I am going to attach a 50 ft cable to the chain 25 ft high and attach the other end to the draw bar of the D4. I am running the cable around the back side of the second white oak and then turning 30 degrees to keep myself and the D4 out of the line of fall. I plan to thread the cable through some old tires and wrap some log chains around it to keep the cable from whipping towards the D4 if it should break. I cut some roots and I am ready to push with the bucket with tension on the cable connected to the dozer. If that don't take the tree down I will need a second operator to pull with the dozer while I push with the loader. I tried pushing with the loader alone, no such luck and I really don't to dig too much in that foundation line. I tried pulling with the Dozer and my chain broke. I replaced the chain with a stronger chain and re hooked. Dark got me. I put some tension on the cable to keep the tree off of the house should the wind get up during the night. Tomorrow I will enlist someone to pull with the dozer while I push with the loader. If I can point out how I have addressed all safety concerns, I might even talk my brother or son into manning the dozer. They don't know the first thing about operating machinery but surely I can instruct one of them as to how to pull back and feather the clutch lever and then try to outrun the tree as it begins to fall in their general direction. After all, not to worry, the machine has ROPS and a rear screen. No problem if you don't look back! Right? What could go wrong with my plan?
Good luck with the trees. Be careful!! Any way to cable the tree even a little higher up…get a little better purchase? DB
Tree looks pretty symmetrical in the pictures, so as long as the wind is not blowing in the wrong direction the cable should only need to get the tree started in the right direction. That said if one of your helpers can run a chainsaw with out hurting themselves I might opt for you running the machine pulling the cable and let them do the last part of the cut after you handle the preliminary work with the notching. Reminds me about the time a friend from work Mr. Bill! He asked me if he could knock down a couple trees in my hedgerow for the firewood. Told him sure no problem help yourself. Just be careful when up near the old Corvair I had parked in the back of the field. Do I need to explain what happened when the first tree came down? Was good for a laugh for years after anytime I saw him with a chainsaw in his hands, had to ask him if there were any Corvairs in the area!
nitelite I hoped you hugged them before you took them down that what we always tell the owners after we take them down
Nitelite is a very good woodworker and I bet at least some of this will end up as a table or chair in the near future!
No Ken, they are going to the sawmill, should bring a good price too. Between that project and others I have quite a few White Oak logs to haul to the mill and sell. Veneer Quality I hope. The contractor who is going to build on to my home got bids to take down the three trees and that shed. $800.00 each for the trees and another $1000.00 to take down the shed. I took all three of them down in two and one half hours this evening. I'll leave the shed until spring, that is where I winter my ag tractor. I will take down the shed using the loader in the spring and replace it with a three car garage. I guess tree cutters got to make money too, but not this time. The old gal is just paying me back for her new shoes, track chains, sprockets and engine overhaul.
I love it when a good plan comes together! I can't operate two machines at once so I enlisted help from my brother and his son. Hooking up, attaching the cable from the tree to the D4. Hooked up, note the cable is routed around the back of the other tree creating an indirect pull to keep the dozer out of harm's way when the tree falls. One machine pulling and the other pushing. Due to my new foundation going in, I needed to leave a small footprint and not a lot of digging. It is party time! Grunt and push your heart out for me old gal! Done deal! The largest and most dangerous tree is on the ground. It went just where I needed it to.
My helpers My white headed brother has a track loader of his own. Beat the rain by less than an hour, it would have created a mud hole for sure! Some prospective as to how large the trees were. ]
Oldgold, I have heard of tree huggers and have even met a few. I am not one but those people give me good reason to keep locking caps on all fuel and fluid access points on my machines. Up on my road frontage last year I swiped one of my trees with a track while backing up. Put a big skinned place on the tree that shined like new money. Someone called me and gave me a lot of lip about skinning the tree. The next day I went up there and made a bandage for the poor tree out of a pillow case and attached it with twine. It survived with only a scar!
I not a tree hugger either I always say when we take down a tree god makes more I just had a tornado go through my dads farm lost about 50 tree about the size of your trees cut them into logs if its in the way it goes I like how you took them down roots and all a lot easier than digging them out
While I'm not a tree hugger, heck I heat my house 95% with a wood stove, but do not like to see trees cut down for no reason or see forest clear cut with no new trees planted. Most of the wood I use these days for heat I get from dead or storm damaged trees plus some where I thin out areas to let the better trees have room to grow. Around my property most of the wooded areas are where there was not enough dirt to plow and farm back in the day, limestone ledges, so few trees survive to get as big as those two. Most either die standing up or fall over by the time they are 16 inches in diameter.
In the 1980's a blight got every last red oak that I had. It was quick. When the blight hit the red oaks looked good but the big black ants entered the tree from the roots and within six months the tree would hit the ground. we are talking about 36 to 40" trees. Saw mills did not want them because of the damage caused by the ant infestation. There is an optimum time to cull mature trees and that time is just before mother nature does it for you.
Nicely done. Now the real work begins!! DB
Chain saw time Zipping right along at the speed of an old man. Muddy over there due to the rain that almost got me yesterday. A man can easily get hurt sawing loaded limbs like that. One of those logs could roll over you and make you into road kill. Nice logs and a lot of firewood too. I think that one is just firewood.
I only got about three hours to work today Glad that tree didn't fall on my shed! Shik happens you know! Labparamour, you are right, that saw is killing my back. I am using a 16" Pro Mack 55 that I bought in 1970 and a 18" Homelite 330 that I bought in 1973. Sawed from one side and then the other. I am going to have to roll the butt log to finish the cut clear through. kshansen, I wish that you lived closer, I would load you up with some firewood. Wonder how big those prepaid USPS boxes come. It may be cheaper to ship it to you than Walmart sells their prepackaged firewood! Don't laugh, I thought that I would never see the day that people could sell a bag of dirt or a small bottle of water. I wonder if I could sell my dirt and not have to move it myself, you know, sort of like pick and bag your own, pay the man on your way out. I need to make me a sign. I could even furnish the bag and shovel. I have seen it done around here I am telling you, the sign says YARD SALE and people just go there in droves!
Local here sets up 'Firewood' sales at quickmarts, makes a killing at $6/bundle, ALMOST enough to make a single one evening fire! Said it is close to $250 a cord that way! Done some pretty slick work there my friend!
Play day!, Look what fell out of Santa's sled! Well, I didn't get a chance to cut and load any more logs today. I had to spend the day following the auction, doing a wire transfer, buying insurance, temp tag from the County Clerk. Good news was no CDL required. They would never let me have a CDL due to health reasons. It missed its mark in Tennessee and landed in Indianapolis Indiana. Now I have to drive to Indianapolis to get it. I'll need to kick the tires, check fluids and make sure that she is road worthy to make the 350 mile trip home. I think rather than take a tow bar to hook her up to the back of my Ford Explorer for the trip, I'll just load the Explorer in the back of the truck and travel on. Now that Explorer will pull pretty good but pulling that truck 350 miles might be pushing the vehicle to the edge of her maximum towing capacity. Allison auto trans. ABS, 1400x20 tires 1986 AM General M925-A1 5 ton 6x6 Cargo Truck, 250 HP Cummings six cylinder diesel. 6,814 miles and 248 hours on the clock. All systems check out perfect. 33,275 GVWR, hydraulic front winch/w front and rear PTO, fold down bed sides and tail gate, troop seats inside fold up. spare tire lift and heater. Dry underneath with no visible leaks and a recent oil sample analysis. I really did have a hard time convincing the wife that I needed that vehicle to haul my logs, well, after all, it did get muddy when it rained the other day.
Nice truck. I could see myself with something like that someday. You pick it up off iron planet? I was cruising their site the other day and saw some listings for them. How much did it go for? Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
1969, 519th Transportation Co. Heidelburg Germany forget the first picture, it don't pertain, just couldn't figure out how to remove it.
Yes colson, it is a nice truck. I waited on it to come up for auction on the 14th of December. On December 7, there were several in the auction and they sold for hive fives to middle sixes. When this truck came up on the 14th, it was the only one to be sold in the US. I also think that everyone was waiting on that particular truck. That drove the price to 9500.00. I had a max figure of 10,000 that I was willing to pay. At 9500.00 plus 950.00 fee plus 850.00 plus time to go 700 miles round trip to get it plus fuel @ 5 MPG or so plus fuel for the Explorer plus hotel for one night plus food. I will end up with about 12,500 when she rolls in at home. Spent $500 tonight for 20 ton bottle jack, large fire extinguisher, air gage, diesel fuel additive, antifreeze, oil additive and anything else that I might need to put the beast back into service after long term storage. It has been in hibernation for a long period of time. I will need to spend some time, several hours, checking fluids, looking for and draining any condensation, lubricating and such. All major systems have already been checked and guaranteed by Iron planet. There is one concern, it only shows 10 psi on the oil pressure gage. most other trucks with the same engine show 75-90 psi. I am thinking that I need to crack the oil pan drain plug, drain off a sample and check for water. An oil sample was done and furnished by Iron Planet. Looks good. I am going to try and get an oil filter number and change oil and filter if the lot manager will let me do it there. If not I will drive it to the nearest auto parts place and do it there. I am thinking, with 6,000 miles on the clock, I would suspect the gage rather than the engine. I saw several of those trucks listed with inoperable oil pressure gages and a few more showing 15 to 25 psi. I am wondering if the lack of use has produced some clogged oil pressure gages or lines. The engine sounds really good and idles smooth @ 750 RPM. No bubbles with the radiator cap off and no blow by with the oil filler cap removed. Minimum oil pressure listed by cummings on that engine should not be lower than 15 psi. the gage does not show more when the engine is revved to 1500 or so. The Video of the truck being started and then running, including sound, was clear for everyone to see. The gage was filmed during the start up and run period. it appears that the temperature gage was reading in the normal range. there were 85 bidders and 112 watchers interested in that truck despite the oil gage. A lot of the bidders buy the trucks, clean them up and then double or tripple their money when they resell them, no one seemed deterred or concerned too much. What are your ideas on the oil pressure? I am betting a whole lot that it is a false reading for one reason or another. I will take another gage and some adapter fittings when I go to get it. It will pass the 300 mile test trip back home or it will blow trying. What else can I check and what am i not seeing? After i do all of the preventive maintenance and clean up, I will change into my military uniform, plant an American Flag, (16"), on the R&L ends of the front bumper and cruise at about 50-55 mph. Top speed is governed at 63 mph and she has an 81 gallon fuel tank.
See 81 photos and start/run videos here, including the oil gage video. Any ideas? Worst case scenario is that I will end up with a large wrecker or transport bill, a lot of aggravation and end up parting the truck out to recover the investment. There is a fool born every day, so I have heard! http://www.ironplanet.com/jsp/s/item/799350?kwtag=p13n-V&h=#
Thats a nice truck, and while its true" A fool born every day" there is another" you only live once" so enjoy yourself and live your dream..I want to go to the grave with lots of toys and owing someone money..LOL..you cant take it with you...from the work you have done on your other equipment, im sure you will make this one work just fine..best of luck!!!
Installing a separate gauge will probably be the best thing to ease your mind. Not a bad idea to do the oil and filter change. Wish it was in my neighborhood, I'd come out to give you an hand! Be sure to keep a journal of the trip and let us know all the details. Got my finger crossed for your success. Also as they say, "Need pictures or it didn't happen!"
Nice buy! Hope the oil pressure checks out okay with fluid change and a second gauge. Have a safe road trip- looking forward to pics! DB
I just talked to the yard attendant who took the pictures and did the inspection on the truck. the first thing that he said was that you can't trust the fuel gages or the oil pressure gages on that model truck. He deals with a lot of them and is the inspector on every one that they sell. he said that it was a really nice truck. We talked for over an hour and a half. The broken spring shackle U bolt was broken with a tow motor fork. That is also how the step got bent. He also put two new batteries in it and a new starter as they burned up the old one trying to crank the truck on the old ,no good batteries. I asked if the truck was up to the trip, he suggested that I make my checks for my own satisfaction and drive on. Whew, I feel much better!
Good luck with the new truck there Nitelite. Looks like a real workhorse! Hope the 350 mile trip goes good when bringing her home. What is highway cruising speed of a unit like that?
That I can answer!! SLOOOWWWW! These were designed for a top speed of around 56-58mph, basically intended for digging in the muck in low gear.
63 mph wot, cruise speed should be 50, 55 mph if everything is as it should be and up to par. I will know for sure next Monday for sure.
Rolling on! Cruised the 350 miles home at a little more speed than that of an old man in a thirty year old truck. Ran 60 to 65 all the way and did see her creep up on seventy once or twice. The ride was impressive and at 60 she is really smooth. The fuel gage does not work and the oil pressure gage is not too reliable. Seems to be a ground problem. Other than, that it has a headlight burned out. 8 degrees when I got there, She fired up! It has an Arctic heater on it. It will make you turn it down. Outside temp never got warm enough to melt ice off of the hood Pit stop somewhere in Ky.
Long day! That 250 HP Cummings sounds really good! No lack for power whatsoever. Scoots right up the hills! Cruising speed was about here. Oil pressure more than 30, I did see it registure as high as 90 psi. I will work on the gages. Like I said, it is a falty ground.
Very nice Truck Nitelite! I'm jealous! I can't remember if you mentioned it in your previous posts but does that box dump?
Good looking truck
Welcome home to Tennessee, welcome home. A peek under the canopy, top bows, slat sides above drop down bed sides and tailgate, fold down troop seats. Looks right at home. Now I need to build a building for her!
Fuel, average was 5 MPH running WOT most of the way on interstate. 20,000 lb winch, W/200 ft wire rope that has never has been uncoiled. I am going back for the flat bed matching trailer the first week of Jan.
Good looking outfit, I can see your having a lot of fun. Sam.
I enjoy life so much that I just hate to see a day end, but I am so anxious for the next one to begin to see what it holds in store for me.
Looks good, glade trip went off with out a hitch!:usa
Thanks for sharing the trip. Glad you had smooth sailing. Good looking rig! Bet after you saw she was in tip-top shape you were probably hoping for more snow. DB
I was always partial to the M817 dump trucks but they only carried a five yard bed, so too the M929 with the L10 Cummins and automatic. Maybe one day I will hit the Lotto and be able to support as well buy some more equipment.
Look em up at ironplanet.com. You can get in one cheap until the supply dries up.
Glad the trip went good Nitelite........One of the other posters had asked if the truck had a dump box & I wondered the same? Hope you have fun with it!
No dump bed, I wanted the troop carrier with the drop down sides so it could be loaded with a tow motor, benches and top canvas. It will be nice in parades. The only problem with owning this truck is that I want to drive it everywhere I go. First thing, it will get a backup camera. I need to quit playing around and do some more serious dirt work on the new building pad. I am thinking on a building sort of like an airplane hanger instead of seperate stalls.
Congrats on the truck, Nitelite. Thanks for sharing the adventure to drive it home. Sounds like you got a good truck. My brothers co-worker just bought a military Case 1155 TL. Much like the one someone just had a thread about. It's amazing what good shape some of these retired machines are in. That truck will look good in a Christmas parade with lights all over it being driven by a man with a big white beard and red coat. Better get your Santa suit ready.
What We Do Intermat’s core business is to research, develop and produce stealth/anti-thermal coatings which minimize military assets’ (vehicles or installations and infrastructure) thermal signature. Our coatings are applied on military vehicles, armor, howitzers, trucked or wheeled. We are proud to conform to NAalth stuff. Turns out that my truck is painted with that stealth paint, I went out this morning and I couldn't find it. It had the footprint of a VW Bug! What our coatings (paints) do is to keep in stealth mode all your assets (mobile and fixed). And Stealth technology, after military definition, is regarded as a combination of materials and methods which significantly lower the emissions of a target, thereby effectively decreasing the enemy's detection range. In order to attain a Stealth effect the level of the Signatures must be reduced down to about the same as, or ideally lower than, the environmental background noise. Full Stealth effect is achieved when the Signatures are reduced to such an extent that even if the asset is detected, engagement is virtually impossible. Intermat can give you this stealth/anti-thermal effect within a coating.
So this product would be good to hide "assets" from wife who thinks I have too many of some kinds of "toys"? Or so neighbors don't know they are here and won't ask to borrow them?
I just use a barn on the lower forty to 'park' my toys I do not want seen. You guys don't ever say "Oh that, it has been here quite awhile, don't you remember?" Keep them thinking they are borderline Alzheimer's and they don't say a lot against the purchases!!
just make sure they are all the same color and tell her its been there forever,,lol..
:roll
Or you could do like some guys on a motorcycle group I'm on have done. When they want to add a "new" bike to the fleet. Drop it off at a friends hose first and disassemble it into easy to smuggle home pieces. Then slowly reassemble over a period of a few months!
I have about thirty more of those trucks here on the place, as they are stealth, I can't seem to locate them. I have some stealth money too or so the wife is convinced.
I will be going back to get the tralier after Jan 4 It looks brand new. It was about 8 degrees the day I took the pictures of it. I am having a pintle hitch made for my F250 to go after the trailer. It needs to be 34 1/2" off the ground. The trailer has air brakes and is designed to be pulled using my M39-25 A15 ton. By the way, stealth stuff will show up if you can capture it in pictures.
I will be going back to get the tralier after Jan 4 double post
Kind of like my Colt 1911's , I have one blue one and one stainless one. Those other 10 boxes................
Nitelite , I wonder about tongue weight , if you will have enough with the trailer. We know the big truck will be fine but it might whip the f250 a little. I guess when you hook up you'll know then. When you went to Indy did you go up 75 then 150 to I65?
Over the weekend we went to Grand Rivers Ky. There is a place called Patty's Inn and resturant. We stayed a coupil of days and saw some Branson type shows. I was just browsing in a gun store and saw a Colt 1911. OD in color, the only one that I have ever seen. I told the woman that I would take it. We were looking for a belt and holster to fit it. She asked, are you a Ky. resident? I said no, I am a Tennessee resident. She snatched the pistol from my hands and said,"I can't sell to an out of stater. I did not know that that was a federal law. I am going to look on the internet to see if I can find another one. I just renewed my gun permit this morning for seven years. $87.50 I think was the fee. The wife got hers for seven years and my daughter renewed for four years.
she could have sold it to you, and you just have it shipped to an ffl dealer in your area and you pick it up from them, thats all there is to outer state purchases..
Yes she lost a sell by not offering to ship it to your local FFL. Most likely didn't know any better. What type finish was it? I'm familiar with SS , Blue , Nickel and Bright SS. I'm not familiar with Grand Rivers either, sound like it would be close to Owensboro. There are lots of other manufactures making the 1911 , but I like the Colt's best. I like Zesta saltine crackers , any other no thanks same deal.
I don't know what the finish was but it looked good. Priced at less than $800. I didn't think of the FFL. Her attitude made me forget about that particular gun. Grand Rivers is just ten to twelve miles South of Paduca Ky. I carry a S&W 38 revolver, airweight model 640. I wear it inside the pants. I was just thinking that a man with a BIG truck should be carrying a BIG gun and wearing it outside the pants in a holster on a BIG belt. Might even opt for the tie string! Then change my handle here on HEF from Nitelite to TARGET!
I looked up Grand rivers , been thru there just a couple times. She must not have been much of a salesman. I have my ccdw license , and if I carry its a full size 1911 in 45 acp. I did carry a 357 Smith 686 but after a little study that rascal was a little bit dangerous as a carry weapon. The 45 will stop faster even though at closer range it has more energy. The closer range at more energy is what I'm looking at. God forbid I ever have to and I mean that , I want it done. I like the Colt Light weight commander XSE for carry , just need to get one bought. After thought , your in middle TN I think , not eastern?
Yes Dickjr, I am in middle Tn. 30 miles N/W of Nashville.
I got my CC license a few years back. I am another that favors a elephant gun while carry a 1911 in 45acp, if you cannot hit them in seven rounds you aren't gonna. That and if you do hit a perp trying to molest it will pick them up and shove them back away from you at close range. And yes, God forbid I ever have to use it. My nephew was a cop in Long Beach CA, it was the departments rule that their officers carried a 45acp, for close range stopping power as well the round won't travel excessively before slowing and dropping like a rock.
Took I-65 all the way from Nashville. I have a pintle hitch rigged 32 inches high, above the ground on the back of the F-250. The trailer weighs about 5200 lbs and it is a tandem axle trailer. I pull my ** tractor with the truck. The trailer with the tractor and bush hog weigh about the same as the empty M1061 A1 military trailer. The F-250 should handle the load. It is an HD model which is rated as a ton. 4x4 long wheel base 7.3 Diesel. I just can't do any close following as the trailer has air over hydraulic brakes. I will keep the diesel tanks pretty well full and the transfer tank holds another 105 gallon. I think the extra weight on the truck should help stabilize the load. I hope to run about 50-55, depending on how the trailer pulls.
I am really looking forward to getting that trailer. I like to do Christmas and Veterans day parades. Here in Ashland City Tn. the Christmas parade is after dark. Next year I will be driving the 5 ton pulling the trailer with the M-151 A1 Vietnam era Jeep on the trailer. I can accommodate about thirty soldiers or riders in the back. I have a year to whip the truck into what I want it to be. Mechanically, all it needs is a headlight replaced and a glad hand o ring for the air brakes. After Christmas I bought 3,300 LED colored lights and a lot of ornaments and other decorations to decorate the float. I also bought a generator to supply the power. It will be a sight to see, I think the kids will get a kick out of it, meeeeeeee too!
I don't doubt your rig , I have an 02 F250 with the 7.3. I have seen these military trailers that are balanced so you only have to jack them up to unhook the pintle , they are somewhat balanced. I can tell you can handle this just a reflex I guess. Have a good run to get it. I like the spirit with the lights and all. Hope the new year is good for you.
Thanks ****, Happy new year to you and yours! I will try and remember to get pictures of the custom hitch set up tomorrow.
Air/ hydraulic jack Does anyone know if gladhand air pressure slaved from a truck air brake system is adequate to use with a air/hydraulic jack, something like Harbor Freight's 12 1/2 ton air/hydraulic jack? I bought the HF 20 ton hydraulic jack, thinking about returning it and opting for the air/hydraulic.
It will in shorter bursts. Most likely enough to raise what you want. Your air supply is up to 120 psi? The limit is air supply storage.
I am trying to figure out how to post pictures. My computer was hacked and my files were incripted and hijacked. There is a demand for money to return my files. I told them to go **** themselves. I am using my older computer but I see no way to resize photos so they can be posted on HEF. I'll get it figured out.
The same thing happened to us at work about 3 months ago; Only we paid the ransom. They hacked into & encrypted our accounting system & also a data base that we use extensively, both for tracking jobs & maintenance. It cost our IT man $2,400 for the ransom but it was well worth it. He thinks it was someone over in India or Pakistan & somehow computer generated sniffers find a way in. Once in, they email you & let you know ransom arrangements. After the ransom was paid they sent us a key to once again enable the system & it we got everything back. The encryption even got into our daily backups.........scary. Just think what that would mean to have your accounting files rendered useless, going back 5 months in our case to the previous Y/E........... There were a few tense days to say the least. Guess what, our passwords look like Fort Knox now & our IT man now takes the back ups home with him, so there is a total disconnect on that end. The agreement was that he take them home in the beginning & he got somewhat lazy, hence he paid the ransom. We also hired an independent IT company to come in after the trouble occurred to do a mini audit & they came up with some improvements for us to follow in addition to the stronger passwords & taking the backups off premises, all in an effort to keep these guys at bay. So far so good.
I am trying to figure out how to post pictures. I don't know if this will work. Ok, it did work. This is the pintle on the 5 ton. it is 34 1/2 inches high from the ground. The hitch fabed up to pull the new trailer back from the auction site in Indianapolis. It is also 34 1/2 inches tall. This should get it home. The trailer weighs in at 5,200 lbs empty. I am working on a brace going from the vertical arm tying into two of the three 1" holes in the bumper for added stability. It has air brakes which will do me no good on the trip home. More pictures when I get it finished. Just lack painting and re installing on the F-250.
Metalman, sorry about your computer experience. I don't have anything that is worth paying ransom for. It does junk out a good computer. I have not forgotten about the new seat, just got side tracked with this new military vehicle. The seat remains on the cook top, just on the back burner for now.
Hi James, I think you should be OK, but the braces to those holes are going to be mighty important. What is the vertical distance between the center of the pintle and the center of your receiver? I'd like to run some numbers and double check a couple of stress points. Are the black bars 2" or 2-1/2"? Solid or hollow? They look to be solid in the photos. Just don't take corners very fast! The torque on the part going into the receiver is going to be kinda high if you have any horizontal lateral forces on the pintle! I'd take a 3/8" plate, notch it for the vertical bar, blow three holes in it to bolt it to the bumper, bolt it on and weld it fast to the vertical bar. That would give you a really solid brace. I can draw that up easily enough, just let me know if you need a better description! --Cavin
If its simple to put a brace off the bump for side load that would be great , and maybe gusset the flat bolted to the hitch. Time is not on our side now , but I know a guy that could have drawn up something on CAD that calculates the loads as well. I'd make like a whale tale and bolt thru the three bolts on the bumper and cut the 2" square out and weld it. Spot it on the truck pull it and stick it. That will help with pull and side loads. I know its not loaded but these dang bridges and pot holes jar the crap out of things. Don't forget to cover your license plate if you go thru Louisville or you will be making a bridge payment. Next time I post I should read cavinjims post first , we had the same idea. I get excited sometime.
Now I am confident that it is up to the task. CalvinJim, everything that you see in the way of bar stock is machined out of solid 2" bar. That is not an off the shelf hitch bolted to the frame of the truck. That hitch was custom made to fit the truck and an off the shelf receiver hitch will not fit it. The horizontal bar took some machine work. I have multiple bars that fit only that truck. I have a 1 7/8", a 2 " a 2 5/16" and now a raised pintle. The bars lock into the receiver using not one but two 5/8 pins. I think that you might approve of the final product as shown in the pictures below. Now I am ready to go get that trailer. It will auction at 9:00 in the morning, central time. If you have not guessed it yet, I plan on winning the top bid. watching paint dry>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lets get this show on the road! That is more like it. I Ved out and then I burned 10-6011 rods. Those are 1" grade 8 bolts and the bumper is tied to the hitch below.
You got this.
James, that gusset plate is very close to what I was thinking of, which was what Dickjr had in mind, too. That will help a great deal! One other thing, though, that has me a bit concerned. The four bolts holding the pintle to the hitch--though its hard to tell, it looks like the nuts are self-locking(?), but the bolts aren't poking through the other side. Or--are those nuts welded to the pintle base? Regardless, please make sure those bolts are tight, really tight! I had four pintle hitch bolts work loose while hauling a couple of tons of steel angle. Fortunately I didn't have but a few miles to go--took about a half-hour going those few miles, though! And those were 4 grade 8 bolts torqued down tight, but we had been travelling dozens of miles of very, very bad road each day that week. Not surprised they worked loose and the welder made sure that wasn't going to happen again! I spent several years building "cave gates" (really they are "horizontal bar fences")--so I have quite a lot of experience hauling stuff (steel, equipment, ladders, boats, you name it!) to really out-of-the-way places. The caves don't come to us! Here's a few photos of one of the last projects for the forest service: This is a "cupola" style structure being installed over a 125' deep mine shaft. When the crane moved it the weight was around 12,000 lbs. Finished was closer to 14,000. I did all of the design and engineering and oversaw the construction (when I wasn't welding!). This is the natural entrance to the cave where the mineshaft was: Moral of the story--I've seen more stuff fail than I care to admit, even things that looked good and right. Take your wrenches along and re-torque those bolts on the bumper, too. With the offset, the forces and torques are going to be unusual--more like hauling a 10K lb. trailer. I do think you've got it covered, though. Glad to see you have some real hooks for the safety chains! Best wishes and good luck! I might have to watch that auction in the morning!
Why not use 7018 for the welds? Most of the off the shelf adjustable pintle mounts come out further from the bumper and have a triangle gusset from the vertical to horizontal piece. Yours should do the job though just can't take it off by simply pulling a pin.
My old welder is a 225 tombstone AC. I have some 7018s but the 6011s burned in very well on the AC setting. I will take along wrenches to re check all bolts. Those are socket head screws with a locking type washer and nut. They will not back off. There was not a lot of room for a triangle gusset. I think that there is more mechanical leverage advantage tying in higher at the bumper. This is pretty much a one time use hitch, to bring the trailer home, 350 miles. If I ever use it again, it will be just to relocate the trailer around on the place. It will normally be pulled by the 5 ton where I will have air brakes and a lot more truck.
The trailer auctions at 1:00-1:03 CST on Iron Planet Government Auctions.
Dickjr, tell me more about the bridge payment, what is it for and who is charged? I take it that they take a picture of your plate, sort of like a toll booth camera?
A better view of those bolts and nuts. The bolts were tightned using a torque wrench. I will check them often. Those are not ordinary lock washers. They are made for industrial use and they don't like to back off.
Murphy's law claimed my vintage early 1970s saw that I bought new! Bad day at the office! Broke the case. bent the bar twisted the bar I think it is finished! I got it hung in a cut. When I made the next cut with my other saw it freed the 330 and it fell to the ground. Next the entire tree slipped downward grinding the saw into the ground.
That's funny (was not so funny at the time)........I had a similar thing happen to my Homelite of the same vintage when mine was only about 2 years old!! Went out & bought another new one & never looked back!! Those old Homelites were so noisy. No wonder I have little hearing left now!
Had a McCulloch Pro Mac 1000 one time long long ago. Dropped a "Swamp" oak with it and as began sectioning the main trunk it got hung up. Next moment was kind of curious as the old tree basically decided was sitting too long, it began to roll down the hill it was dropped to WITH the saw in the partial cut. I am not certain if the rolling beating it took killed it but am certain the eventual drop into the pond beneath us did. Far as I am aware the trunk and the saw are still on the bottom, swamp oak will not float as full of water to start with, sank as fast as hit the pond, with the saw in the cut where only a few branch tips stuck up to testify it was in there until they rotted away. I bought a new saw next day!
I did manage to get the trailer at auction. It is at Stout Field motor pool Indianapolis In. I will be leaving out at about 5:00 AM Friday morning to go after it. I hope to beat the bad weather and snow that they are calling for. I would not attempt to pull the trailer on a slick roadway. Might have to hold up and hibernate somewhere for a while if I hit bad weather. On another note, chain saws made now days are plastic throw away saws unless you get into professional saws, and they are very expensive. I see a used McCulloch 24" 610 for sale. I also see a 28" 610 for sale. A 28 " saw is really too big for my needs. Both saws look good and are worth the asking price. I have a 16" Pro Mac 55 that I bought new in 1970. It has been, and is still a good saw. I think the 610 is a bigger saw. I also see used case parts to fix my Homelite but they want a premium for the parts.
The bridge toll just came into affect in the last week. They built a new bridge crossing into Indiana on 65N. No toll booth just cruise on thru in about a month you will get a bill from toll by plate with a nice tidy little pic of your plate on the back of your F250. I get one every fall when I go to FL. I wanted to cover my plate this year but my wife wouldn't let me jeopardize our family vacation. They offer transponders for people that cross the bridge daily , some people cross it 10 times a day. I'm about 40 miles off the Bardstown/ Clermont exit , the Jim Beam exit. Back to the photo toll , I wanted to hang it out the sunroof or anything of that nature , my wife is southern Baptist and doesn't approve of such. I guess that's why she married a Catholic , I get to do all the good stuff and she watches. I don't get yelled at that much , I think she might be transitioning into a liberal Southern Baptist. After 24 years anyway. Safe travels .
Hey you can't help it if some mud got thrown up on that plate when you were hooking the trailer up could you?
Looks like you should be good with that hitch. Sorry if I seem a little paranoid--but when it comes to things like trailers it's not just your neck at risk. I've seen some pretty iffy stuff doing 80 down the interstate! We used to haul 20 foot sticks of angle for the cave gates on a trailer that was a 24 foot wide-flange beam on an axle. It had a 1" round rod bent into a loop for the pintle hitch. We were working on a project for Johnny Morris, the founder of Bass Pro, at one of his resorts west of Branson. We were hauling the trailer up a very long, steep gravel road with some of the worst washboards. Half-way up that hill the trailer popped off the pintle! Glad the safety chains worked--it would have been a real mess! For that to have popped off, two latches and the top of the pintle had to all open at the very same instant and then the trailer hit a bump just right and at the same instant. Better odds winning the jackpot on a slot-machine! I still can't fathom how unlikely that was. We added an additional wire to the hitch to tie down the redundant safety.... On a different project I tore the frame of my Jeep Cherokee when that same trailer caught the bank of a ****** crossing (it was just too long) :beatsme But it looks like you've got things handled there. Good luck with the fetch! We gotta see a photo of that trailer behind your truck!
Safe travels
Wow, just walked in from the 700 mile round trip to get the trailer. Uneventful trip with no trouble or surprises. The old F250 drug the trailer back averaging 60 mph. 60 seemed to be the sweet spot for the trailer. Temp got to -1 and the trailer was froze to the ground. I had to rock it back and forth a little to get it broke loose from the ground. The hitch worked out well, just like it was made for the job. Can't wait to hook it to the 5 ton. Calling it quits for the night, it has been a long day. Tomorrow I'll get some pictures. You can see the result of the auction and detailed pictures here, click on the link or copy and paste it into your browser. https://www.ironplanet.com/for-sale...1,sort|ad+desc,**|1&rr=0.5&hitprm=&pnLink=yes
Good news and the price sounds good too!
Glad the trip went well
Too cold to play outside today Ground froze, chain saw demolished, and a new toy sitting in the driveway, this job don't stand a chance of being finisher anytime soon!
I love it when a good plan comes together Over 40 ft long with the trailer weighing in at 5800 lbs. retractable outriggers at all four corners. Those are generator mounts bolted to the deck. The trailer was made to haul several things including two generators. The hitch worked out flawlessly Everywhere we stopped truck drivers had to see and comment about my truck. I bought it new in 1989 and it has yet to turn 75,000 miles. Looks new and is just as tight as the day that I bought it. Diesel engine just now getting broke in. I will have to wash the salt off and from underneath her. New halogen headlights ordered for the 5 ton as it has a burned out headlight. Also ordered a four camera back up system for it. One to see behind, one to see forward and one to see down each side. It also records in twelve hour loops. Ended up getting two generators to pull the 3,300 colored lights in parades. Next task is to buy or fab up a set of ramps to get the Jeep on the trailer. If spring don't come on the Mrs. is going to get tired of my playing around and shut me down. I think that I might need to take her to a quilt show or something.
I forgot to mention the old Ford F 700 dump truck sulking around the corner covered with snow. I'll get things going before long, I also filled my diesel transfer tank in the back of the pick up. Last stop on the way in I filled both truck tanks and 105 gallons in the transfer tank. Diesel was 2.27 in Tennessee, 2.59 in Kentucky, and 2.72 in Indiana. Dickjr, I got my picture taken twice and the cost of the toll will be $400 bob tailing up and $7.00 coming back with four axles. They will never see me again, that is of course, unless something good comes up really good for auction at Iron Planet in Indiana that I just can't live without.
Nice looking trailer there Nitelite! BTW, what is the rating on each axle on the trailer. We bought a trailer that had a water tank on it last summer & I think it has 10,000 axles under it. Ours looks a little lighter & smaller than yours. Yours is really HD looking.
The trailer is rated at a 10,000 payload, but that is under the absolute worst conditions. All of the rolling stock that the military owns is rated as such. They teach, "don't worry about the mule, just load the wagon"! If it needed to it would haul my track loader or my dozier. You may have the same trailer, they did have one version with the water tank mounted.
I hope that was a typo, hate to think they charged you $400 bob tail!
No, ours is different. We needed the water tank to wet down our manufacturing yard during what was for us a record setting summer for dry. We found this one & had to do quite a bit of work to it, as it was badly damaged/ neglected & was fairly old. It has a 1500 imp gal. water tank on it, so the water content itself weighs 15,000# + the tank & trailer. We made some modifications to it to make it functional for the season, then we just finished some more modifications to it, to make it into a multi purpose job site trailer when the water tank is not being used (which is 9 months of the year). Where the tank sat was recessed, so we installed some galvanized grating to act as a spot to carry job boxes & a skid mounted Bobcat 250 Welder. Actually just finished the work on it a couple of weeks back. See the before/after pics.
Few more pics with the trailer completed. Water tank was blasted & painted on the outside as well.
Nice job metalman. It is amazing the things that can be done with a little imagination and a will to make it happen. That trailer deck looks to sit a little lower than mine but yours is no light duty trailer. Electric brakes on both axles I suppose? Looks like you are pulling it with a highly capable vehicle too. Does the tank have baffles?
Yes, electric brakes on both axles. One baffle at the center of tank I believe.
4$ and 7$ , you will probably be accessed a handling fee as well , I think F dot is 2.50$. On my FL run , I don't complain much about the toll, well some. You would think that I am spending some decent money that they would be happy to wave the toll fees. I can drive around it but it adds about an hour to my trip. You had the option as well but your extra drive time would out way the toll. I've never crossed the new bridge yet. I seen it from the hospitals there in the curve before you cross. On to more important things. Trailer looks nice. I wonder if it does weigh 5500lbs. Did you cage the brakes to pull it? You may have said and I didn't read it.
I translate the toll into how much diesel fuel that would have bought. The toll could also be considered as a tax on the trailer. I kind of think that there is more to it than taking a picture. A code is probably built into the tag itself and sends an electronic signal. Residents can buy a windshield sticker that identifies them as a frequent flyer and reduces their toll to $1.00. The trailer brakes are air over hydraulic so all I had to do was to drain the air tank. It also has parking brakes on each axle, they are lever action spring brakes.
Job well done That sure is a slick paint job that you put on that trailer metalman. When I look at the job you did on the trailer and think about the seat job that you did, I can tell that you take pride in your work and don't half way do anything.
Just looking! Finally, it is melting and getting warmer. The ground will be rotten until we get a good hard rain. Then maybe I can get back to some dirt work.
Nice catch Ken, Yep that would really be expensive but give it a few years. They now that they have their foot in the door the price will go up every year. That is an easy way to make money.
Back to the 5 ton When those military vehicles go up for auction they move them around with a giant to motor, (telahandler) I think they call it.) They do a lot of damage with those things. They broke two front axle u bolts on my 5 ton. Today I cut one off with an angle cut off wheel to take with me to match up and have new ones made. Weather permitting, I will get the new ones installed tomorrow. Drain pan to catch penetrating oil. Left side Right side I have no choice but to cut the old ones off, forget turning that nut. I might salvage the nuts using heat after the ubolt is removed from the truck.
That truck must have a stiff ride with all those springs and it looks like the rubber bumper on the frame is only a bit over an inch from the top of spring! Hope the U-bolts are the only damage!
I don't know if it's a trick of the photo but the springs in the photo with the catch pan in it almost look as if they are at best flat and at worst curved downwards. I hope not, if so it could indicate that the trailer had a hard life.
The springs are flat all the way around. The truck does have a stiff ride, but then again, they were not made for comfort. As far as the hard life, it only has 6,000 miles on it. Load up 10,000 pounds on it and it probably will ride pretty smooth. Ken, you just posted the 1,000th post on this thread!
I noticed you were absent a couple days ago , figured you were getting it all hooked up so you could post some pics. The truck is 6 wheel drive ? It would be an excellent time to test it out in these wet conditions. You have amassed some pretty cool toys. I been looking at Humvee's on IP , found some selling in KY. 5 to 6 grand seems to be the price. I just wonder about the old V8 gm diesel engine in it. My daughter will be 16 next year , might be a good starter truck for her. If there's only 1 tree in a 100 acre field she can find the tree in short order. On a golf car.
The truck! Most of the Humvees that are auctioned by IP require that you sign a end use form attesting to the fact that you will not attempt to title the vehicle or use it other than off road. There are some being auctioned out of Albany Ga. That can be titled. Most have from 500 to 1000 miles on them and have air conditioning. They go from $13,000 to $45.000. If you want to bid on one to title and drive on the road, call first and make sure that the vehicle is worthy of a title and can be road legal. If so, and the inspection report is good, you can drive it home. The truck is six wheel drive. I didn't dare to engage the front axle until I got those ubolts replaced. I had the ubolts made yesterday and I got the replacement done this morning. I ordered halogen headlights for it and expected them today but they didn't come. I am installing a backup camera on the truck now. It will have four cameras with a split screen capable monitor. The system will see forward, behind, and backwards down both sides. Art work is being done on the doors. They will display the patch that I wore in the Army while I was stationed in Europe. The patch will be 24" wide. The turn down on the front of the hood will display the lettering "HIGH ROLLER". My excuse is it it raining outside so I can't play in the dirt! I will see if I can post some pictures, My phone camera has been acting up so I am not sure if I can.
Art work for the truck doors and hood. This is the patch for the doors. This is the lettering for the hood. No I won't use the girl, just the text but not stacked as in the picture.
Looks great
Heck, I'd put that logo on a truck girl and all, though I love the old pinup art Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Merv, PM sent on the overhaul question, if you don't get it let me know.
Colson, I wouldn't mind using the entire logo, girl and all, but for it to fit on the hood turn down, I would need a bigger truck! I'll start looking for one tomorrow!
What to do on a rainy day? Well, if the rain don't let up then you just go with the flow! My saw got crushed when I was cutting up those large white oaks. I bought a donor saw off of Ebay to get the case parts that I needed' I got the donor Fed X Now, five hours later, she looks like a saw again. I saved enough money to order the new 9' x 15" aluminum ramps that I need to load my Jeep on the new trailer! They are ordered.
If you get bored ride up , I'll keep you entertained for a few days , months . Bring your tools. Got a Super 55 Oliver I need the engine rebuilt in first off.
****, it never gets boring around here, something always breaks. If it don't break on its own I somehow manage to tear it up. I use two chain saws. both are vintage. The McCulloch Pro Mac 55 is a 1970 model and that Homelite is about 1973. Total cost to repair that 330 was $34 including freight for the blown donor saw, less bar & chain, from California. I like those saws because they are strong runners, cut very well, and are all metal. Today I plan on using both of them to finish up the tree work that wrecked my saw two weeks back. Throw away plastic chainsaws cost better than $500 now days.
I have my dads saw , its a Stihl early 80s vintage. It quit firing and no one will fix it. I even dropped the I don't care what it costs just fix it a couple times. After seeing this I know its got to have a life in it. Don't know the model right off but I'll get it tomorrow. I would be cool to have his saw fixed. I have a little project now.
Is this a points ignition motor? Could just need points cleaned or replaced.
I still have a Poulan countervibe saw that still runs and services out. Only issue with the older saws is finding a donor for non-existent parts that has not eaten the ones needed.
Repair what you have. Newer saws are plastic throw away saws.
kshansen , nitelite the saw I have had ignition problems , I don't think its points. It used an early electronic system ( I think ) and I was told more than once it was not worth fixing because the parts are too high. That's kind of not the point , my dads been gone almost 17 years the saw has not ran for 25 or so. I'll get it out tomorrow and get some pics.
My dad had an old McCullough in the 70's. It weighed a ton. But, I love my Stihl 026- light-weight and I'm happy with the power. Something to be said for keeping the old stuff running (I have an unknown age plate compactor with an old Wisconsin engine). DB
****, having the internet now days makes parts for older saws available. If you do a google search on that saw you will come up with a parts source. You can also troubleshoot the problem with the saw on the internet. I found my donor saw in California, bid $23 on it and paid $11 for shipping. I hate the other guy's saw blew up but it did not go to waste. Tax on a new plastic throw away chainsaw would have been more than I paid to fix my old saw. Your problem could be as simple as the cut off switch not contacting. When you take that saw apart, take plenty of pictures to save a headache when you re assemble. My father in law gave me that Homelite 330 when I was 23 years old. The man thought enough of me that he just thought that I might need a chain saw as I heated with wood at the time. He just went out and bought me that saw. He has been gone more than ten years now. I couldn't prevent his death but I can prevent the death of the saw and I am glad to do that. He was right, I did need the saw back then and I still do.
Just an example, not knowing your saw model. From $15.00 to $45.00 http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-STIHL-IGNITION-MODULE-COIL-4180-400-1308-HL100-HT131-HT101-FC-FS-KM-/271275371416 But do post some information on the saw and maybe someone can give you some ideas on how to check out the problem. Something a simple as a pinched wire could be all that is wrong with it, a little heat shrink tubing and it could be running like new. Also if you do post the model and other information on the saw I am on a couple small engine forums and I could see if anyone there has some input. I too hate to toss out something that could be fixed. I just yesterday dropped off a cylinder block for a H70 7 horse Tecumseh engine at the machine shop to have the cylinder honed out to take a 0.010 over piston. Probably crazy as I could buy a new Harbor Freight 6.5 horse engine on sale for $100.00. I'll probably have that much into this engine by the time I do get it running and blowing snow again
Its a STIHL 031 AV. The pull start recoil is missing and the plug is out of it. It turns over. From what I remember , the ignition went out and they kept telling me it wasn't worth fixing. I would like to fix it because my dad bought it new in the early 80s. I'll get some pics up asap. My concern now is the carburetor. Sitting for 25 years , what will that take to clean or would I be lucky enough to get it firing , get a pull start for it and it take off running?
Not to knock HEF, but http://www.arboristsite.com/community/forums/chainsaw.9/ is the forum for chainsaw help. Their chainsaw sub forum has a ton of knowledgeable guys that feel the same way about keeping older saws running. If I had a saw related problem, that's where I would be looking for some advice Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
I understand what you are saying colson, but what we are doing here is trying to keep busy during the bad weather, rain, snow and icy conditions when there is so little to discuss about the heavy iron. When the weather breaks, there will be plenty to post on dirt work being done and the inevitable break downs and repair. Things are so dull over on Boone's thread that they are talking about cleaning out roots from a septic system. Miller has the old Alyce blues again and the forum is just trying to stay alive until spring. I have even considered that if this rain don't quit, I'ii be tearing down my alarm clock and trying to find out why it goes off three minutes early every morning! Right now I am in the middle of installing a four camera system on the five ton so that I don't run over anything with it. When I get that project finished I guess the only thing left to do is to oil and lube the mouse traps and wait for spring to come. You got anything more interesting going on that might distract us for a few days or weeks?
Well there was a good discussion in General Forums a few weeks ago about summer and winter air rotation in tires!
I would just like to get my saw running again. Found an ignition kit to switch it to electronic for 20$ and a new carb priced anywhere from 30 to 90$. The engine turns over free. I am worried about it not having a spark plug in it , I didn't know it had been removed. It was stored in a dry shed. Found the regular coil type ignition for about 80$. I was gonna upload some pics but my laptop says its full. I usually transfer them from my phone to the computer which works easier for me.
Oh, I'm not trying to step on toes here, I just wanted to share another resource that I thought could be useful in diagnosing Dickjr. chainsaw. As for me, I certainly wish I could be doing some dirt work like the rest of ya. I've got a lawn to take to final grade and spread topsoil on, some ditches that need reshaping and check dams placed , the driveway needs grading badly and before I know it, it'll be time to plant 60 acres of pasture. We're getting a mid winter thaw that is wreaking havoc on my newly installed driveway. Top 3 inches has thawed, but it's still frozen underneath so the water can't go anywhere. Just slop, everywhere. County roads, my fields, yard, driveway are all slop. The three days of rain we just had certainly didn't help that either. But, we're hanging drywall inside and hoping to start painting next week so that puts a smile to my face. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Yea I hate it when we get a good freeze then a warm stretch with the ground froze it seals the water from soaking in an is a real mess. We are going though that here too!
Yeah, I'm just glad they delivered the drywall on Tuesday while things were still frozen. I don't think that delivery truck would have made it up there today. Supposed to stay above freezing here for the next week now Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
We have had rain either all day , first thing in the morning or in the evening for the last 10 days , and its raining right now. I have a pond to build and 2 septics to do. I don't like too much moisture in the pond dam , and you can forget packing rock to a lateral line about 4 trips and its to the axle. I cleaned my tile floors Saturday and Sunday about 60 sq feet. Done it by hand with peroxide and baking soda , soak and brush then mop. Keep me occupied and gave me a decent back ache. Now I am a chain saw mechanic.
After the floor job you should find the chainsaw job easy. If that saw was kept in the dry, I don't see how the missing spark plug would hurt the engine. Just put a few drops of oil in the dried out cylinder and install a new spark plug.
I made a typo , that was 600 square feet I cleaned. Still raining , got a meeting in the morning about a drainage project , then Its saw repair time.
That sounds more like it, Dickjr--I was wondering why you were bellyaching about 60 square feet! Now 600... you need a :drinkup . I think we all have the winter-time blues. I heard that Jan. 16 was "Blue Monday", the most depressing day of the year. The holidays are over, winter is getting long, sunshine is rare, and it's getting just warm enough to be mud. Though we've been so very dry that even after rain, 1/2" of ice, another inch of rain, it's still not hardly muddy! I had to traipse through the house today in the boots I had just worn outside--didn't even leave a trace. Hate to say it, but if we don't get more rain before June it's not going to be good. Unfortunately I still can't get out and work with the toys as I have my in-law's 50th anniversary celebration coming up and my "honey-do" list keeps getting longer....
Oh I had a couple frosty beverages after cleaning. Now that I am getting seasoned somewhat , It seems that when the temp stays above normal like it has , we have rain through the winter. If it drops down to the low 30s for the high and the teens for the low , it seems the rain holds off even though its cloudy. And I believe the Ohio river has something to due with either holding moisture or dumping it on us. Work load is looking promising this year although nothing is in concrete yet. I've done the walk with the boots, I've mudded up the floors hence the cleaning. If I'm balls to the walls running at work I don't have time to clean , but times like these , why not. I'm a regular modern day Ethel. Makes the old lady happy when she's happy the world is a better place.
dickjr and kshansen you guys sound like me!! I have been setting tile, grouting, getting the rest of the basement floor ready for laminate lay out, when I am not repairing fence, setting new fence, working on the Allis, then I have my regular job which has me jumping in 12 hour days/nights/weekends/holidays so as to make time not really available but too quick to pass too! Oh and I have a half dozen DEAD honey locust now that I need to drop then ring some more!! When I am resting!! Almost forgot the slop here is horrid. Had been hard froze around two weeks then the warm spell hit, my 4-6" thick rock drive feels like a sponge when walk on it not working mud up but soft. The yard I do not dare to drive into with the pastures the cows feeding out there are walking hoof deep in soft crap. Going to be a interesting winter I do believe. Cold stuff should be getting here in a few weeks, always around the birthday MY birthday it gets cold enough to shudder the Owls. Then I will be back into inside projects and the bad day: 03/15 I get at least two new discs fixed(neck), installing manmade not fusing, possibly three. I tell you guys what I am sick of the aches and pains but glad I can still feel 'em! They stated I will be back to functional in less than four weeks after. After which I am going to try the retirement gig from my full time employer to get hard into these full time projects!
Yeah DickJr, the Ohio river is a pretty good heat sink that buffers the weather pretty substantially. I live about 3 miles from the water and it will often cause the weather to split above and below it.
Here in Tennessee we have ridge lines that are weather breaks. Raining on one side of the ridge and dry on the other. Ice on one side and slop on the other.
Missouri is mostly foothills, no real tall ranges but we do have rivers and the valleys as the interstate 44 runs in, seems those make for great weather troughs.
Enjoyed the day with the 5 ton. No rain today, the sun actually came out for awhile. I spent the day with the 5 ton. I got my decals put on the doors. That decal is a replica of the shoulder patch that I wore on my military uniform while I was stationed in Europe. I got four cameras installed, one in the front looking forward, one in the rear looking back and one on each front fender looking back down the sides. The camera records on a continuous 1,200 minute loop. I got everything greased and lubed on the truck as well as all preventative maintenance done. Now I need to drive it to Walmart and buy a loaf of bread. Might go by Lowes and buy a 2x4. And then I might just drag up a chair, get me a beer, and look at it until dark. Next project is to hook up the trailer and fab up some mounting brackets for the ramps so I can safely load the jeep on the trailer for parades.
That's pretty sweet. Will it fit in a DQ drive thru or a car wash? Some guys have boys toys , this is a man's toy for sure. In other news , they announced on local news that the toll by plate would be sending out the first group of bills in the next few days. Maybe one day I'll get that Humvee and cruise it down that way. After looking at them even if you couldn't license it , it would make a slick off road fuel transfer truck.
When I pull into the drive through I can see over the top of the building but I can't see inside the drive through window. I would have to pay by air mail and send down a rescue basket to collect the big mack. When I hook the trailer up the rig will be more than 48 feet long. I have 9' aluminum ramps and the rise will be 34 1/2 inches. Some of those humvees can be titled and driven on the road. They are going for a reasonable price right now because they are phasing them out and they are plentiful at this time. The tactical truck market is drying up quickly. Some low mileage humvees, 500 to 1000 miles, have been coming out of Albany Ga. They have heat and air. It is ever changing, you just have to watch the iron planet site. If I moved my excavation equipment around from job site to job site I would own one of the tactical road tractors for sure. I have seen the road tractors go for as little as $4,000. Low boy trailers also come up for auction but not as often as the tractors. Wreckers and dump trucks go for $7,000 to $9,000.
Nice looking truck there Nitelite. Did you pick up that loaf of bread yet??
Nice looking truck there Nitelite. Did you pick up that bread yet??
No metalman, I didn't get the bread but I did pick up a 2x4 at Home Depot! I should have gotten two, that would have given me an excuse to hook up the trailer. Come to think of it, I don't need that 2x4 either. I think I'll fire up the track loader in the morning, use it to load up the 2x4, and take it back to Home Depot. Did I mention that this wet weather needs to dry up some so I can go and play in the dirt and don't have to work so hard finding something to do?
James, if you were closer I'd say come put some hours on my 955! It's dry here, perfect for dirt-work, and I'm so busy with work and a 50th anniversary (in-laws, not mine!) that I haven't found enough time to do anything but watch the rattletrap idle in the shed! Sigh. I did get to play on the sawmill Saturday (beautiful--sunny and 70) but that was about it. At least I know I can make boards-to-order. My wife reminded me that I still need to make a vanity, shelf, and cabinet for our bath before building all the cabinets for the kitchen remodel--not to mention the workbench and miter-saw station I'm working on.... I wish I had your woodworking skills closer to hand! Oh, well, the fun never ends. Put that 2x4 to good use! I'm presuming it was a 12 footer. Maybe 16 if you were daring!
Got a little seat time today and expect more of the same tomorrow.
The new site MUST have blocked your pictures cause I don't see any. Must be drying out there.
Believe it or not, I got so busy pulling levers and pushing pedals that I forgot to take pictures. We do have some dry and somewhat workable dirt for a few days here. They are calling for snow now. This new site does take some getting used to. I really don't think that it is an improvement over the old look. About one more month boone and we will have better weather as far as dirt work is concerned. You are farther South so maybe a little sooner for you there in Al. I have a full list of things needing to be done and I am sure that you do too.
Well, crap happens!
I haven't been able to figure out this new format. It will let me post pictures but will not let me add any text after the pictures have been uploaded. Any way, when I pushed that 36" white oak over the roots must have grown around my gutter drain pipes and crushed them. The crush points were in several places along the double pipe line. It is easier to just replace all of the PVC rather than to hand dig and try to patch. The loader wanted to run anyway. I will be building on to this end of the house when the weather breaks. Will also be demoing the existing shed and putting in a new three car garage in its place. Too many projects and not enough time!
I have been struggling with the picture management as well. Maybe it is an age thing, learning new things!! I end up getting doubles of the pictures much of the time. So, you are using the 951 as an excavator now.......maybe it is time to get an excavator now too?? You have the truck & trailer to pull it around with now . Maybe check with your wife & see what she says about that one?? Nice looking Honda RTV there too Nitelite . Bet the grandkids don't like riding it that one??
I cut a ditch the same way Nitelite, set our Gray water drain into it with four inch clean rock so it can filter then drain away and not be a mudhole.
Yeah Miller, one of those lines has grey water from the washing machine flowing together with rain water from the gutter. It just runs into the hollow that you see there and dissipates into the ground.
Metalman, two yellow machines are no problem with the wife as long as they are not seen both at the same time. She don't notice that one has a bucket and the other a blade. Now, if there were three yellow machines, only one visible at a time, I would need only to explain the new attachment that made it look so much taller. I just know that I would make a good excavator owner. I think that I just saw a picture in another thread with at least three toys that you might be playing with. I don't envy that white stuff on the ground in the picture.
That old Cat loader never ceases to amaze me! Up thread you can see in the pictures showing that I am digging a trench to replace the drain lines. I am digging across the trench in that I turn the bucket teeth straight down, Move forward two feet while at the same time curling the bucket. Then I bring up a full bucket, travel forward until just about half track is about to break over the edge of the trench and then dump the material on the far side of the trench. Usually I take two scoops out before moving six feet down the trench to repeat the process. That makes the trench about 36 inches deep. The trench will end up burying two 4" drain pipes about 100 feet long. I am back filling the trench as I add the 10' pipe sections. Last week, about half way through the job, it started raining and turned cold, the ground froze so I quit working on the project. Today the temperature came up to 70 degrees and dried out somewhat so I continued digging the trench. On one scoop I went too far over the edge with the center and the loader, with a full bucket , broke over and did a nose dive into the trench with the bucket half raised and the front idlers sunk in the bottom of the trench. I was hanging by the seat belt. I could have dumped the bucket and used it to push myself up and out of the ditch backwards. Instead I threw both feet up on the dash to hold myself back in the seat, put the loader in reverse and opened her up to WOT. I wouldn't have given the machine ten cents worth of a chance to climb back out of there but it did! When it broke over the edge climbing out it was a good thing that I had the seat belt on. I have about twenty more feet to go before the job will be done. A
What to work on and play with when the ground is too wet or froze.
That is one solid looking combo unit there Nitelite............looking good! Wouldn't a mini excavator look good sitting up on that trailer now??
Yes Metalman a mini excavator would look good on that trailer, but If I had a mini x I would have it over there working on that trench instead of using the track loader. But then again, that trench project is about over. I dug the rest of the trench and installed all of the pipe today with the exception of one section of pvc that I am short. I hope that I will get a chance next Tuesday to finish up. Then I will move the track loader and dozer back to the site where I am digging out a hillside for a place to build a new building to house the 5 ton and trailer. The new building will need a side shed on each side, one for the loader and one for the dozer.
Looking at the pictures posted above in this thread as thumbnail pictures in post #1056 as compared to full view pictures in post #1049, which is the more desirable post and which would you rather see, the thumbnail of the picture or the full size picture? I have not been able to figure out how to stop or correct the double post yet. Text combined with pictures gets kind of tricky for an old fart like me!
Well, I got in about nine hours of loader seat time today. I am digging out a place to put a pad for a new building. Sort of like digging a basement but much larger. The building needs to be somewhere about 40x100 with a clear span. I need about ten more days like today to complete the job, and some decent weather. Today was perfect. The clay was wet enough to dig from a steep bank but loose enough that it did not stick in the bucket. I need to put the dozer on it but that old loader is doing a good job. I am about to the point that the D-4 might be more efficient. Slot dozing should do the trick, with a straight down hill push for about 40 yards max from the back of the dig. Not far enough to use the loader and dump truck, especially considering that I would be the loader operator and dump truck driver! I am too old to swap machines that often.
Both machines, the D-4 dozer and the 951 track loader, were fueled up and ready to go this morning. I decided to go with the dozer. I cleared some remaining saplings from the top of the hill and began a routine with my slot dosing idea. After about an hour I realized that chewing away at the face of the hill with the loader produced more progress so I went back to chewing away at the dirt bank with the loader. For now that old loader is doing the job but at some point the face of the hill will become too high to work with the loader. I then will need to work from the top down for sure. We had real hard rain and storms tonight so it will be a few days before I can get back on it but I will get some pictures then. An old dozer operator could probably come up with some tricks of the trade and work circles around me and the loader. One good thing is that I am no longer hearing the loud popping noise coming from the new tracks. Could be that they just needed to be run. I have been running WOT for many hours at a time and no sign of engine slobbering. The old engine sounds really good, plenty of power, all gauges are in the green no fluids have needed topping off. How long can my good fortune last?
Just curious if you ever got your toll by plate bill for crossing the Ohio river? I seen on the news were some rental car places were forwarding the bills and adding a 25$ handling charge , which is highway robbery literally.
Although I was expecting to get a toll bill by mail I never got one, not yet anyway. It has been two months now. Last year I went to Norfolk Va. I got on a road and came to the unmanned toll booth. I stopped and saw that there was no one around and there was no place to pay the toll. I drove on. I was driving a rental car and I did get a bill from the rental company in the mail with a tacked on twenty five dollar fee. I paid the bill. You are right, it was highway robbery. There should be a law enacted against such actions.
About the time you crossed they had trouble with the system. It seems they got it ironed out now. They are drilling people left and right. There are trucks that haul sand from Louisville over to Clarksville , make 6 to 10 trips a day. They are getting pounded. I can agree with a toll for a short while to help with such a project but tearing people a new one is different.
The state of Tennessee is planning to increase the gas tax by 7 cents and 12 cents on Diesel. They are bragging about the revenue from unsuspecting interstate travelers that they anticipate will get saddled with the tax increase. Think about it, just where would you suspect most Tennessee residents buy their gas? Yup, right the old wazoo again!
That does sound like a bad decision on the states part. why beat up the local guys? The thought is not correct in my eyes. When we travel south , I fill up here and it will take me to exit 114 in southern Alabama. Big logistics companies plan on these things as well. But what do I know....
I like to think that most everyone here knows that buying a hunk of yellow iron comes with a substantial maintenance cost that will likely exceed the cost of the machine over its lifetime. Same thing goes with infrastructure. Remember the NIMBY (not in my backyard) folks? Now there's the NOOMP crowd (not out of my pocket). Near as I can figure, that's everyone. Oh, the irony of it--I spent much of the evening writing up how what I do in my job relates to failing infrastructure in hopes that I have a job this time next year! For years Missouri had about the lowest fuel tax in the nation-- and the worst roads. Some folks finally realized that what they were saving in tax was more than offset in vehicle maintenance, tires, and shocks. Finally bumped up the fuel tax and it sure is a lot nicer driving most roads! Still some big problems, but lots better than it was.
CavinJim , I'm not saying the tax increase is the end of the world. But make it fair across the board, why is the diesel tax higher? A good fair start would be 3 to 4 cents per gallon of product. See how that works instead of going hard especially on the diesel burners that carry all the goods. All this will do is drive prices on the goods up more. I agree infrastructure repair is in need for sure. Hopefully things in DC will get more fiscally responsible and these repairs and improvements can be carried out.
Politicians never see the trade off of transferred costs into final product sales. Every $.01 transport cost goes up so too the cost of buying food, fuel anything trucked. Funny how that works.
diesel is taxed higher because it is used commercially alot more than gasoline, so you cant cut back on the use and you can add $$ to the customer to pay for it, so the increase is spread out to more end users..still not fair but just another way for the government to fleece you of your $$...and the politicians know exactly what they are doing when it comes to separating you from your money...
When I was young the state gas tax money collected could only be used for roads and bridges. They never used to spend all the money until they decided that the earmarked tax money would be added to the general fund. The road budget has been crap since, and the money pi**ed away on everything else. They should start with putting the money back that was stole from the infrastructure fund. I believe the fed tax also goes into the general fund now.
That is how is done in MO. All the tax revenue goes to General Fund anymore as they had run out of ways to 'pad' that fund for budgets. Most of our fuels taxes go to KC, STL, SPRFLD, or COL as to use on Major highway projects as those are seen as most needy where they have the most voters sitting in traffic. They built the new I-70 bridge into downtown STL, should have been well north of there but the politicians HAD to HAVE it input to downtown just KNOWING it would spur new development. Now is just a underused overly expensive structure that has no really defined routing sitting next to three others that did and do the same thing.
Got in about three hours on the loader this morning.
I blew the main pressure hose coming off of the hydraulic pump. The other end bolts to a steel line. Total length of the hose looks to be about 30- 36 inches long and about 1 1/2" od. Just a quick glance tells me it will be an easier job if I drop the belly pan.That is no big deal as the belly pan is clean from the fairly recent engine overhaul. Looks like I lost about 2 1/2 gal of hydraulic oil. It could have been worse. I lost some of that fluid hoisting the bucket all of the way up in order to use the safety angle irons to keep the bucket locked in the full up position. Tomorrow I will chase the part to replace the hose.
My cat loader is a 951-C #86J 2188 with a D 330 engine. In my parts book, if I am understanding it right, I am showing the entire hose assembly as 7k7676. It is shown as a hose assembly and broken down into individual parts which make up the hose. The hose itself is a 8S9355. Could be that I can take it to a hydraulic shop and have the hose replaced using my existing ends. It may also be available at Off Road Equipment.Co.
Finally, I think it is readable now. I am thinking that part numbers 36,37,35,and 31 are separate components and maybe reusable parts if I have the hose made up at a hydraulic shop. Right click the picture to zoom to the top right in order to read the parts discription
If the hose ends are the reusable one I hope you have better luck than I did. At any rate , the hydraulics are strong enough to pop the hose and the hose is probably due anyway. My last hose on the drive of the 943 , they say it will see peak pressure of 5500 psi a couple times a day. I'm not sure on that but if so maybe that's why a 40" hose cost 500$.
Your local hose man may not have the tooling for the reusable ends but your Cat dealer will. If the ends are very old and rusty, they may not be reusable any more. I personally think Cat hose prices are quite reasonable for an OEM. Why not give them a call and get a cost on the assembly, 6K7407.
I looked up the hose at Off Road Equipment Co. I shows $116 for the complete hose not including shipping. It is a made up aftermarket part and therefore non returnable. That is not too bad but I will take off the old hose and see what the local shop, Volunteer Hose and Gasket, has to say about it.
Cmark, I agree on cat's hose prices and I will call the local cat dealer first thing in the morning. My ends are in remarkable condition as the paint has been maintained on them. The old gal sits now with the bucket hoisted and supported high in the air and a 4'x10' piece of sheet steel shoved under her between the tracks to support my hydraulic jack for the belly pan removal. I don't expect it to be a big job. The 4 bolts connecting the hose to the pump will be in good shape as they were removed at overhaul. If I don't get into a broken bolt situation on the other end it won't be a big deal to change out the hose. As you see in the pictures up thread, I am shaving the face of the dirt bank from below using the loader. With the loader out of commission until I get the hose replaced I guess it is time to put the dozer on the top of the bank and start pushing dirt from right to left. You can see in the picture up thread where I have been up on the top 30 yards beyond the face removing the top soil.
Checking with SIS dealer here in NY lists that hose as being $135, but has note of "indirect Replacement, contact dealer". But when I checked the "8S9355" number it comes up with a new number of "1650021" and that one appears to be just the hose with no ends and list for about $1.10 per inch. So if your ends are reusable and will work on the 1650021 hose that might be the way to go, all depends on what your dealer charges for hose assembly. One nice thing is that hose appears to have a straight fitting on one end, hate it when they put an angled fitting on both ends as a minor error on assembly can make a hose impossible to install. Now if you have a good hose man he will make a note of the curve of the hose and assemble it so the natural curve of the new hose is in the same direction as the old hose! I also like to have them make up a hose per the build dimensions in hose book and not try to measure the old hose as sometime measuring the old hose can be off a bit and if the hose is fairly short even a fraction of an inch difference can make installation a bitch!
Thanks for the reply Ken. You are exactly right about the replacement hose and its natural curve. You are also right about the orientation of the bolt holes from end to end. I am thinking that if Cat has to make up the hose to order, I would be at least as well off having the local hose shop make it up if they have the proper tooling to reuse my ends. I have just put on my cleanest dirty shirt and am headed out to remove the hose. The temperature is 78 degrees, beautiful weather for wrenching if wrenching cannot be avoided..
Your hose job looks fairly straight forward. Just my .02 if the hose is easy to change , I would use after market. If its a 4 hour job to get to then a 4 hour job to remove then a better part of a day to replace , then I go to CAT. I got about an 80 hour run in the last 2 weeks on the 43 , the dang bell housing bolts are backing out. Went and got CAT bolts , they backed out as well after 50 hours. Today I got shouldered bolts , carb cleaner to clean the holes , locktite ( heavy duty) , I'm hoping to get at least 8 of the 12 replaced , locktite sealed and roll on. The little machine is doing a good job , burning 30 gallons in an 8 hour shift. I need to get some job pics to share. Current jobs were building a septic lagoon , demolishing 2 houses and bury concrete foundations , filling in pond and clearing some locust trees. I like the teeth for the locust trees to get the roots loosened up and in the air.
Cat/Finning is getting away from the reusable ends here. I had the main hose from the pump on my 931 come apart because someone used a non Cat hose with Cat fittings and stuck a piece of plastic in for a shim. Of course I was in soft ground with the backhoe outriggers down. The hose had a couple ends that needed to be a specific angle so I added an additional swivel fitting on the bottom one because if it was off by a couple deg's would have been a nightmare to install laying under the machine in the 60 litres of oil it dumped.
Been there done that!
Dickjr. remember to go back over the area where the roots were next season when the sprouts come up with spray to knock the locust down. We use 2-4-D, Crossbow and Tordon as a mix all mixed together at the prescribed to water rate spraying total fields. Will not hurt the grasses but knocks the hell out of weeds, multiflora and locust, anything with thorns! Just have to catch during a growth spurt.
Well, I went out yesterday with the intention of removing that blown hydraulic hose. It was a beautiful morning, 70 degrees, sun shining and a slight breeze blowing. I looked at the Cat project and I eyeballed the truck. I have that new set of ramps but have not taken the time to actually put the jeep on the trailer and figure out a simple and quick way to tie it down to the trailer. I thought about laying on my back with hydraulic oil dripping on my face, removing the belly pan and then the hose. I also thought about standing straight up, no hydraulic oil and working on the truck/ jeep/ trailer. Guess which one won my attention for the day. No contest! Today it rained and stormed all day. Tomorrow I have a doctor appointment and have to drive right by the Cat dealer to get there. I am thinking that I might be better off just picking up the complete hose, if they can do it while I wait, and that way I will have it on hand and ready to install when I remove the old one. Just one flatbacking oily day instead of two. If Cat can't accommodate me I know I can get it ready made from Off Road for $116.00. A local hydraulic shop may reuse my ends but then that is two trips to Nashville and two flatbacking oily days. Dick, If I don't abuse the machine, I think that old 951-C can get by on 30 gallons of fuel running WOT moving dirt for eight hours, but not when digging stumps or that sort of work.
After I get my bell housing bolts in I could ride down and swap the hose , I'll be greasy anyway. Even though I'd be in TN , it would feel like home with a fair amount of hydraulic oil dripping in my face. I have developed a taste for the higher grade oil though , none of the TSC stuff. It gives me heart burn. I bought a pair of the blue thin coveralls the other day. I tried them on and my kids said it looked like a big onsie they put on babies. That's ok , I'm saving my better clothes and when they ask for money Friday I'll put my onsie on and take them out to eat.
I really do hate to give out all of my red neck secrets but I will make an exception in your case Dick. The next time you go to Lowes or Wall Mart look in the paint department and pick up a few of the really thin clear plastic drop cloths. Next time you need to work underneath that old cat of yours just unfold that drop cloth and cover yourself with it, head, face and all. Then just run your arms through holes the plastic and crawl under. No more oil dripping on you now. When you are finished just dispose of the oily drop cloth, wash your hands and you are done. You don't even need to wash grease or oil from your face. You can also wrap yourself in the plastic to keep your back side from soaking up the oil if you need to lay in oil soaked ground. I loathe oil dripping into my eyes and ears! Make sure that you have a breathing hole.
Been into that line of thought for a long time too! Do not always do so but does take some of the mess under control when I can use sheet plastic. I also use "Bond Avenue Creepers" a slight on when I used to work in the metro St. Louis arena and when necessary would scarf up on a old cardboard box to use as a ground cover and slip sheet I could scurry across on my stomach or back when working on such conditions. Fridge and freezer boxes always were the best!
Nice looking set up!! on the 3rd pic it looks like something leaking on the ground under the winch area??? when ever someone is throwing out carpet, ill grab it and cut into usable pieces about 3 ft x 5 ft long, they are great for working on cold hard ground and soak up any oil that drips onto them, then out to trash when they are too mucky to use, or they are great fire pit starter with all the oil in them..lol
I always referred to those sheets of cardboard as "Low profile creapers". And I like the idea of wearing the "onsie" when you know they are going to hit you up for some money!
That is rain water on the ground below the winch. The water collects on the frame rail and then runs forward along the frame when the truck is turned downhill. It made me scratch my head the first time I saw it. I caught some of the liquid in a glass jar and was relieved to see that it was clear water.
Made the Dr. appointment this morning and stopped by Thompson Cat on the way home. They had the hose that I had ordered earlier this morning waiting at "will call". It looks good and the natural curve is in the right orientation. When I called Cat this morning they offered to use my old fittings for a savings of $70.00 IF they could remove them without damaging them. We all know that new is better so I bit the bullet and moved all in on this one. Now I need it to warm up about twenty degrees and stop all of the raining so I can install the hose. I did find an easy way to secure the jeep to the trailer and at the same time secure the loading ramps to stop them from walking off from a Cracker Barrel Restaurant while I am having my Uncle Hershel's breakfast some morning.
ok, thats better than engine fluids...long time ago when I worked at a chevy dealer, we use to play games with the used car guy and pour radiator fluid under the front of his car and he would drive the mechanics crazy about this phantom leak..each month we would change what was leaking..
Those 9' aluminum ramps are expensive and will even bring good scrap $. Those four turn buckles are hooked to a short chain that protrudes from the floor of the trailer. The short chain runs through the centers of the ramps and are then hooked to the spindle cover lifting shackles on the jeep. Looking closer there is also a 1/2" locking cable on each ramp. We all know that someone with a battery powered 4 1/2 " grinder sporting a thin cutting wheel can overcome my theft protection system in less than five minutes and be gone with the ramps and anything else they care to haul off. Someone got the radiator cap off of my brother's 1932 Chevrolet fire engine in a restaurant parking lot last year after we left a WW-II re enactment and we thought that we were watching. Too bad that the water temperature in that radiator wasn't up to normal with a little pressure on it. I just installed a key lock starter switch on the M929A-1 military truck that pulls the jeep and trailer. No military vehicle has a keyed starter switch unless someone replaced the original flip switch. The military installed a heavy chain and lock for the purpose of locking the steering wheel. The truck also has eyes and ears. Its four cameras see in all directions with high quality resolution. It is always recording and it runs in twelve hour loops whether I am around or not. Too bad that fire engine was not so equipped. Not fool proof but I have taken reasonable precautions. Now, I have got to quit playing around and concentrate on getting back to work on that hose so I can finish the digging and then I can have the building built to get the truck and all other toys under roof and out of the weather.
Hobbytime, did you happen to see the movie "Happy Days" where the next door neighbor bought the VW bug and began to brag about the gas mileage? Richie and the Fonz began sneaking over there after dark and adding gas to the VW tank. When the mileage bragging increased to a fantastic number they began removing gas each night on an ever increasing level. That cured the bragging on the VW mileage!
Up thread in post 1087, in picture #3 if you zoom in and look close you can see the forward looking camera below the hood handle, Just between the HIGH and the ROLLER. Zoom in on picture #1 and there is one just below the center of the license plate. Zoom on both side views and you can see rear looking cameras mounted just below the mirrors on top of each front fender. The 9"screen is mounted in front of the driver. It will show a single full view of any individual camera or a split screen for two or three camera views or a quad view for all four cameras. Right turn signal on activates full screen right fender mounted rear looking camera and left signal on activates the left full view. Really handy for changing lanes and making turns. When the signals are off it defaults to the forward looking camera or the rear looking camera, drivers choice and can be alternated / changed with a touch of the remote control. Video from all four cameras are recording all of the time to a jump drive and can be played back at any time on screen or on any computer.
Hobbytime, You are probably also one of those guys who when a mechanic has just finished installing the automatic trans in a car sneaks over and drops a spring on his bench for him to find.
nah I wouldnt do that..just on the engine rebuilds I would put an extra head bolt on his table and then you can see the guy going over in his head if he left something out and then pull the valve covers to double check..too funny when watching..and most of the times the guy would say " someone is screwing with me" but he still double checked the bolts, then chase who ever did it around the shop ..but all was done in fun...
I removed the belly pan today and removed the old hose, took about two hours. The old and new look the same when compared. I didn't get time to install the new hose before dark got me. Straight forward job with no unseen problems so far and I don't expect any. I lost a lot more hydraulic oil than I thought I did. When I drained the tank I got less than 1 gallon. good news is that the magnetic drain plug was clean as a pin with no metal particles to be seen. Busy day tomorrow with more Dr. appointments but hopefully I can get things back together in the afternoon. .
Hose installed and the belly pan back in place. Not a bad job at all. I expended about five hours start to finish including R&R belly pan and R&R hose. I poured in all of the oil that I had on hand, about four gallons. It was enough to raise the loader arms enough to get the angle irons out that were supporting the bucket but not enough to even show on the dip stick or be visible in the the sight glass window. I'll pick up two five gallon pails tomorrow, that might do it.
I am trying to be good, I am trying to be good, I am trying to be good. Really enjoy the progress NL, can only wish I could be progressing on my old machine!!!! But I am trying to be good and let everything heal up! Only a few more WEEKS!
I had an operation once when I was younger. I could not afford the time off from work and had no benefits other than medical bill coverage with a large deductible and co pay. I was supposed to be off six weeks but went back to work in two. I have paid ever since. You are doing the right thing. By the way, I like the work that you are doing on the bucket job!
Niteliite , what kind of fluid do you run in the hydraulics? I have been told NAPA fluid is ok in the hydraulics. I have wondered for years if there is a difference in these multipurpose oils , should you get 10W or what. I like the 10W but its not readily available here close.
I get mine from tractor supply. It is heavy duty tractor hydraulic oil. It comes in a black 5 gal pail and has a red label. It is just North of $35.00 for the 5 gal pail. I use it in the D4 and the 951. I have not had any problems with the hydraulic components other than old hoses blowing. I picked up fifteen gallon. It may or may not be enough, depends on how much I lost. It holds 27 gallon.
If I were a betting man , which during March Madness I am , I'd bet the TSC oil and NAPA are the same in different pails. I use it in the hydraulic systems , not in the transmissions especially the hydrostats. This is a topic none of the distributors wants to talk about. I can get 10W at a local oil jobber but its a 20 mile drive , NAPA is about a 1/2 mile.
For an older machine I am not into spending a whole lot of money on over sold and over priced hydraulic oil. If I decided to pay big bucks for hydro oil I would replace all of the old hoses first. D Miller did a total hose replacement on his loader not long ago. Miller, what fluid did you go with, or did you just add to what you had? I also believe that the NAPA and TSC 10 weight is the same, Orileys sells the same stuff and Rural King too. When I overhauled the D 330 engine in the 951 I used Rotella synthetic when I refilled the engine. Up until then I was using 30 wt motor oil. Any ideas or input on weather or not you can add petroleum based 30 wt oil or 15w40 oil to the synthetic? I wish that I had stuck with petroleum based 30 wt or 15w40 so all of my tractors trucks and and other machines would have the same engine oils. For sure, when I do the next oil change on the 951 I will go back with 15w40 or maybe even straight 30 wt.
I was told never to mix synthetic with petroleum based. I use 15w40 in everything equipment wise and use it in my mower which is a Ferris with 28hp Briggs big block and my Kawasaki Teryx. The little gas powered jobs get hot and will black the oil in 20 hours , the mower stays clean but its only got 60 hrs on it. I use Rotella buy it at Walmart. My F150 gets the 5w20 which is like water but I am told the cam runs in the block with no bearings is why that's the oil for it and the Acadia gets the 5w 30 or what ever it says on the oil fill cap. She takes it to a local in and out shop.
Nitelite did you fill your freshly overhauled engine with synthetic oil prior to seating it in?? That's a big no no in my books, you want friction to seat the rings, I've always just run mineral 15w40 in my fresh rebuilds, heat cycle it a few times gentle then run the bag off it for 50-100hrs and dump the break in oil. Never had an oil burner yet.. Dickjr. Does your f150 have a triton 5.4? The only reason ford recommended 5w20 was to meet emissions. I've looked after a fleet of 5.4 engines and switched them to 5w30, less valvetrain noise/problems and more protection IMO. Just something to think about
I switched the old Allis over to 15w40 as I first got it, no issues on conversion but I used conventional Rotella. As I remember(in the olden days) in the shops I worked that when mixed synthetic and conventional oils you got a plasticized goo after running a few weeks seemed the older additives were not compatible, that may not be the case using both versions of Rotella as they should use similar compounds. Have not seen issues seating rings with synthetic oils, the shape of the rings and design to scrape the walls on downstroke still function, really only decrease friction on upstroke keeping pistons off the walls and in bearings.
Interesting, I was taught (not in a school) to never run in on sythetic, I suppose it might take more time and hard running to seat in? I know it's not recommended by any manufacturer (engine or parts). I only have the experience with one engine the owner ran in on synthetic, it drank oil for 500hrs (2 changes) until he switched to mineral 15w40, 200hrs hard running later it sealed up and he switched back to sythetic with no problems. It was a 3208 with 3 ring pistons. I suppose there are a lot of factors involved though.
Latest engines are being shipped new with Syn. fluids, Brother in law works for Metro St. Louis, all the new Cummins bus engines are delivered straight synthetic. Oils have changed since the first synthetics came out, have come a long way.
I have no problem with the synthetic oil in itself. Neither is the machine consuming oil. No problem with things sealing up. I just don't like having to stock so many kinds of engine oil. When I finished the overhaul the Rotella was on sale with a decent rebate and without considering all things, I went for . it. Really not that big of a deal as if it was a daily driver. I don't really think that there is a bad oil out there today, so long as it is compatible with the seals and o rings. Dick, My F250 is a naturally aspirated 1989 7.3 liter. The Ford factory recommendation was straight 30 wt. For many years it got Castrol 30 wt. The last 5 years or so I have used 15w30. We don't have emissions checks in our county on any vehicle, gas or diesel, so I don't consider the viscosity of the oil as a factor. I have owned that truck 28 years now. It runs and drives like new and has not turned 75,000 miles yet and it looks new. I drove it more than 700 miles and put it through its paces at 70 mph pulling that 5600 lb military trailer back from Indianapolis a few months back. By the way, no bridge toll bill in the mail yet from that trip. They won't get another chance at me unless I see a "can't live without, can't pass it up deal" at Iron Planet Indianapolis auction site. Nice 5 ton was auctioned from there today. I don't know what it brought but I figured that it was best if I kept my computer tuned to something else! My 5 ton is loaded and ready to pull out for a food delivery trip on Friday and Saturday.
That's a sweet rig.
Now that the old war birds are retired I will do what I can to preserve them. The 5 ton and trailer is 32 years old and the Jeep is 55 years old. I am in the process of constructing a building to put them in the dry. The M151 jeep is a rare survivor from the Vietnam war. The 5 ton is a survivor of the first Gulf war. When they go down the road horns blow and heads turn. The grunts who once depended on them just stop and stare in amazement.
I still remember sitting behind the wheel of a M35A2 and a M816, my favored drive was the M715. LONG time ago now when I received my Military Drivers License. Good work preserving a bit of heritage.
most new trucks and cars come with synthetic oil in the crankcase, so I would think the engineers know more than me.. both my toyota trucks came with synthetic oil and are doing fine...one has 10k and the other 30+k miles on them..
This is the Deuce that I drove in service. I took good care of it as you can tell by the picture.
I wasn't referring to automotive engines, or anything new, especially Japanese. Could be an old wives tale, or the new synthetics are not as slick? Anyway I don't want to polute this thread with any more oil talk. Love the pics Nitelite!
Greg, no such thing as polluting my thread. Comparing a combination of others ideas and experiences is how we learn from each other on this forum. I appreciate all of your comments and no doubt, you have valuable experience.
I poured seventeen more gallons of hydraulic oil in the 951 today. That brought it back up to the full mark. Most of the fluid was lost in a five foot circle area where the hose blew.. I will need to remove the contaminated dirt and replace it. I will distribute and light up a brush pile with the oil soaked dirt.
When My hydraulic line on the loader mast popped last year I lost a snail trail of around 15 gallons, LUCKILY the grass has overgrown that area and it is no longer visible. Where I swapped hoses we did similar NL, collected all the branches and cutting, had a brush burn that ate much of it up.
GregsHD , I have thought about going to 5W30 , the truck has 85000 miles now , its an 05 model with the 5.4. It rattles a little when you come off idle. I hear all kinds of crap on these engines , from they are junk to they will run 300K miles. It has fair power gets about the same mileage as any other half ton. I do know I won't attempt a spark plug change , it will either be traded or I will go ahead and pull the heads and do it that way. It runs fine. I thought about selling it and maybe looking at a lease but its paid for and a lease for me , a commoner , seems to be a waste of funds.
Morning DJ, you are probably hearing piston slap, they fit the later engines a lot looser than used to for heatup swell compensation so many as my old chevy's had that same rattle. Oil will not change that nor will fuels, will not hurt anything until gets a bit older and the pistons try to turn sideways in the bores then they may score up.
Yep those plugs can be a bear, if you follow the Ford TSB for plug removal with the addition of ATF/kerosene mix and lots of time gently twisting they usually come out without breaking. The 4.6/5.4 modular engines can produce rattling from various valve train components plus slight exh manifold leaks. Stethoscope or screwdriver to the ear will track it down. Later model modular Fords have longer piston skirts to reduce slap, if it always rattles hot or cold it's most likely valve train related.
It only rattles a little off idle. I had it at the dealer , asked out of curiosity about it. The shop guy told me I could put a new engine in it and it would be the same within 4K miles. No other noises. It just has rolled 85k miles , I hope to get another 100 out of it.
Good point Dick. No way I'll ever lease. I want to own it or leave it alone, just like my home, I am a owner, not a renter. I always taught my children to be owners, not leasers or renters. There is just no future in paying for something that will never be yours.
Got a few hours in on the D4-E today. There is a lot of dirt to move to make way for the new building. I have been working from the bottom of the hill with the 951 C loader but today I took the dozer to the top and started terracing. I will put in 6' wide terracing to catch and turn the water coming off the hill. Probably will need to drop about five levels at three feet drop each to get down to the final grade of the pad. I need to end up with a 100' x 100' pad on fresh dug hard ground, ready to place concrete on and build. The parking area will be on compacted clay from the spoil and fill excavated from the overburden from the new pad. The day was cut short because I broke the forward reverse shuttle lever off. After inspection, the lever has been broken and welded before. I cleaned it up and welded it but then the storms hit. So, that ended my progress for the day.
Weak spot on a tubular lever, I would consider changing to a solid stick but they probably set that as is for weight on the valve and future wear. Did or could you sleeve over the weld joint? Does look like good progress.
That is a solid stock. The appearance that it is tubular is because whoever welded it before evidently veed it very shallow before welding it. The dark center is actually rust of the center core where there was no weld. Before I welded it I veed both pieces down to almost a sharp point and made multiple passes to fill back in to full thickness. No need to sleeve over unless it happens again but I am confident in my repair. More rain today so I will work in the shop building a set of forks for the ag tractor. I have a set of old tomotor forks to work with. I just need to come up with a quick attach frame to attach them to the tractor.
We are vacationing in South Fla & yesterday coming across Rt 70 near Okeechobee we passed a 6 wheel army trucks like yours parked in a yard. Thought of taking a picture & posting it ..........maybe it is a sister of yours!
We purchased some quick attach "blanks" aftermarket from a local equipment dealer & made several attachments, in this case a boom assembly welded to the blank, for our skid steer loader. Not sure what your quick attach is like on the ag tractor, but maybe something like that would work? The blanks that we bought were reasonably priced too & were an excellent fit to the machine.
It's very nice to catch up on your progress Nitelite. Hydraulic hoses can be a pain,and I like to use Cat for most things.Our local hose dealers don't have a good reputation and I haven't used them for years until an emergency on a D8R in January.I was busy with another D8H 100 miles away and reluctantly called a hose doctor. He fixed it at a good price,but it blew 3 futhur times in a week dumping all the Cat hyd oil that I'd supplied onto the ground. To be fair,they didn't charge me the repair labour,but I'd lost days in downtime and oil costs.I was also thinking I must have a valve stuck that was causing the problem and asked my fitter Tony Coates to drive up to investigate. He advised me to go up myself and see what the hose man was doing about it. He was right. I oversaw the chap fitting it for a fourth time and immediately realised he was just untrained in basic spanner work. I showed him how to do it and try his best with hygein in rough field conditions. It hasn't leaked since.
I agree on the Cat replacement hose nicky. There was very little price difference in the aftermarket hose and the hose from Cat. Either hose had to be made up as it is not an off the shelf item. The cost of lost hydro oil and the clean up is a major factor when a hose is blown. I chose to pay for the experience possessed by cat in the making up of the hose. New ends and a proper length along with the proper o rings to facilitate a quick and easy instillation justified the purchase price. The hose has about 10 hours on it at this time and seems ok. Good to hear from you!
Been working to get the boat ready for kids fishing trip. New water pump, fuel lines and filter, clean fuel tank, lower unit oil change, and new batteries. Working on brakes on the M151-A1 and still going over small projects on the M939 5 ton. I did manage to get in about ten hours on the track loader digging out to build a large building to house all of the toys.
Working from the top with the dozer and from the bottom with the track loader.
Looks like good and fairly dry for working, hope this rain doesn't set in there and set you back awhile. Can hardly wait to get back in my own saddle!
The clay could have been just a little bit dryer. The consistence just made it load the uc up with mud when turning and it wanted to stick to the bucket. I would much more like to work in those conditions rather than dry dusty soil. The reason I shut her down was it started raining and began to get kind of muddy. I didn't really want to quit, the old gal really wanted to work and I just was along for the ride. Fueled her to the brim and I am ready to go again.
On Monday and Tuesday I spent some time with a real hero and friend, Mr. William (Bill) Robinson. No enlisted man in American military history was ever held as a prisoner of war longer than Bill. He was a helicopter crew chief on a rescue mission when his chopper was shot down over North Vietnam and captured on September 20, 1965 and was held 2,703 days as a POW.
Not to get too political but our so called "president" would not consider him a HERO as he likes people who don't get caught! Next time you see Bill shake his hand for me!
I lost a good deal of HS members in the war, a Handshake for me as well for surviving and having served our nation.
Bill Robinson (left and me on the right) looks no worse for the wear today but he has gone through hell and back!
Ken and Miller, Bet you didn't expect a picture of that handshake for you!
I believe his comment on that was aimed at 1 particular person after that person started with the negative comments, but on a lighter side, the current president has given more praise to the military and law enforcement in several months than the previous one over 8 years in office...
Been getting about four to five hours a day seat time on the track loader. I am digging in a clay bank and moving the hard clay about thirty to forty yards. kind of boring but I am accomplishing two jobs at one time. Filling a hollow for a parking area and taking that hill down in order to pour a pad and build my building. The old 951 is really operating very well. Today at the end of working I parked the 951 in a convenient location to do maintenance that is due. I am at a point that I need the dozer on the project again anyway. I will work the dozer up on top of the hill for awhile.
Thank you fou your service to our country
Thank you f311 for my pension and the comment! Four more hours seat time today. I will post pictures when I get a chance.
been 20 years since i could stay on my loader 4 hours at a time. wouldnt be able to walk if that long now. about 2 hours a day is about it. old legs and too many heart problems tell on me. still enjoy it though.got about 2-3 hours road work planned for today after a dang doctor visit. old ticker complaining again but it just keeps keeping on.
I know the feeling jughead. I am 20 years out from two heart attacks, three stents, and triple bypass. I am on my forth pacemaker/defibrillator and it has about 1/2 battery life left. Never heard of anyone getting a fifth but they need to go ahead and get #5 ready for me as I have long range plans. I am in Chronic and permanent A-Fib with a 25% ejection fraction. Class III kidney failure, Diabetes on five insulin shots per day. Loss of use of right hand and right foot. I have claw hand and can't stand or walk without a leg brace. I get around with a cane and a scooter. You don't want to know about all of the the rest. All of that as a result of Agent Orange when I was young and in the military. I do admit that the VA takes good care of me and compensates me well. In the last 24 months I have kept 134 doctors appointments at the VA hospital as well as some more with private doctors. I can still operate the equipment, with some modifications to the controls and repair it from the ground up when it needs it. I do four hours seat time because I can't manage five and I dread the effort that it takes to climb down when I am done. I pull her up and park next to the step ladder. I refuse to sit down and do nothing but it would be so easy to do that. I work for myself, by myself, at my own speed and don't need to get in a hurry or keep up with anyone. I put my bass boat in the water today and took the grand kids for their first boat ride. It has been more than 20 years since the boat was in the water. Rebuilt the carbs, new water pump, fuel lines, and renewed the registration. The old 50 Merc runs as good as the day that I bought it new in 1986. It looks like new as it has been kept inside all of those years. I might need to use a cheater on a 3/8 wrench once in a while but I can make up for it with a lot of will power! I can half heartily out work some of these younger guys, standing on one leg and one hand behind my back. Not complaining or bragging, just keeping on keeping on. And yes, I can tie my shoes with one hand!
my hat is off to you i just thought i had problems. you can work rings around this old man too. brag on you have earned the right. oh and thank you for your service
I thought my slight issues were tough, not hardly!! You Are Da Man big guy!! My hat is off to how much you manage and the method you manage them at.
I have a friend who is paralyzed from the waist down due to a motorcycle accident. He had the front glass removed from the excavator that he owns. He then welded an I beam overhead above the seat position inside the cab and removed the seat. The I beam extends straight out the windshield opening about six feet. He has an electric winch and trolley system to pick up his wheelchair with him in it and transfer the chair to the operator's position. He locks the wheelchair in place, fires up the machine and he can forget the world for awhile. He operates a construction dump site and uses the excavator to keep the construction debris pushed in. He is Da Man. If he can do all of that with his profound disability, we can all get a little more encouragement and traction to keep on keeping on.
Takes all sort of commitment and due diligence to go that far! I am mostly blind in left eye due to injury 1987, you all know the back/neck saga that started 1977. Arthritic three fingers left hand, caught in wood jointer at 15, hit by car at 3 yet managed to derive a Cat's nine lives, did not preclude US Army enlistment 1974-76, was sent home after found the arthritis as seems the doctors doing the physicals never rolled my hands from palms up to see the top side damage until it flared badly in Ft. Knox. 2A medical Honorable discharge as they had let me in and thru boot. Just a mangle of scar tissue any more but well better off than so many.
A pretty rough storm went through two days ago. Really made the work/play site muddy so no work on the project for a few days. I have used some of the down time to fuel the machines and do some maintenance. I topped off fuel in the 951, D4, two ag tractors and then refilled my transfer tank, 105 gallons. All of that after putting 85 gallons in the 5 ton and 35 gal. in the F250. Local Co-Op diesel price is still under 2.00 per gal. I don't expect to see that low price much longer. I don't really know how to figure yardage of dirt removal but the area to be excavated is 130' x 140' at an average of 8' deep. What I come up with is 16,177.7 yds, if I am using the right formula to calculate the yardage. I stand to be corrected by those of you in the know. I do know that that is a lot of hours and wear on a 69 year old man on a 30 year old machine. I think that I have removed about half of the dirt so far. I am sure that it is a small job for some of you more experienced operators.
I think it is closer to 5400 yards or so + 20% for expansion of the excavated material, that would be somewheres around 6400 yards. I take 140x130x8 and divide that by 27 to come up with those numbers. On a side note, I've read every page of your posts and it brings a smile to my face whenever I see you've posted something new. It is absolutely incredible the patience and fortitude you have to rebuild and maintain and purchase the toys you have. I hope I have the tenacity and vigor you have when I reach the same point in my life. Thank you for your service as well!
Thanks for the comment. You make me sound pretty good but to me, it is just life playing itself out. I am proud of who I am and all that I have accomplished in life. It will all come to a halt someday but until then there will always be a smile on my face and it is WOT! My mistake was I divided by 9 instead of 27. I am glad you straightened me out Tags. That means that I only need to relocate 1/3 of the amount of dirt that I had figured on. Once upon a time I was spat on and called a baby killer, I returned home in an inconspicuous manner, took off the uniform, integrated back in society and never divulged that I was a veteran for almost forty years. Now days I am proud of my military service and thank you for recognizing it. Personally, I reserve the greatest respect for the working man/woman across this great nation. Want to see who I am? Do a google search for James M. Cripps.
In March the fender mounted starter solenoid on the F250 went bad. While going do the road at about 55 mph the starter engaged the flywheel and it made one heck of a noise. By the time that I realized what was making the noise the starter drive had no teeth left on it. The flywheel luckily was not hurt at all. I replaced the starter and that is a job on that 7.3 liter Diesel. It takes a guy working with one hand four hours just to get the old one off. Two hours to put the new one on. Luck has it that the new starter went out. The plastic face on the starter mounted solenoid that came mounted on the new starter broke. I removed the starter again yesterday evening and picked up another new one under warranty this morning. Got it back together this evening and it is back in business. I couldn't do without the truck because of the bed mounted diesel transfer tank. The truck was parked on pavement with more than 100 gallons of diesel in the tank but I couldn't move it in order to fuel the machines. I have scraped the face of the clay bank with the loader until it is now too hard and too tall to work from the bottom. In the next post is pictures of using the loader to push dirt over the bank from above.
After pushing dirt over the edge from the top I am again at the bottom with the loader scooping it up and carrying it about thirty to forty yards to use filling in a hollow. Too short a distance to use the dump truck in this one man operation.
I had more post with pictures but they failed to show up on the thread.
Ok here is another try! Pushing dirt over the edge from above and then working with the loader to carry it away to use as fill in a hollow, about thirty to forty yards, seems to make the best time. I am not moving dirt far enough for my one man operation to use the dump truck.
As you reach the edge of your cut where you wish the building to sit you may consider sloping off the cut to allow drainage, maybe over cover with 4-6" clean rock on a weed barrier cloth to eliminate the need to mow or maybe set a shortish retainer wall/foundation for the back wall to hold the spoil back. Would also give shorter height access to roof top for later maintenance.
Miller, I am kind of thinking about a three step terrace to turn the water and then a short rock wall . I would like to leave enough room to drive between the back of the building and the retainer. The weed barrier sounds sounds good. I don't really have a solid plan on the termination of the slope yet, just figuring it out as I go along as is my first rodeo on a project of this kind. I have also considered using the back wall of the new building as the retainer. That would take a 12" block rear wall with rebar and concrete filled block on the first four or five courses of concrete block with a rebar reinforced bond beam on the top course . Water proofing would need to be really tough using mastic and pre molded membrane then back filled with rock. The terraces above would need to slope down and back toward the bank, away from the building to turn the water before it got that far down the hill. This method would of course eliminate driving all the way around the building though. This will be a mostly metal building so the rear short block wall would be the foundation to anchor the rear metal wall.
Sounds like you already have a handle on it!
Well, there will be no dirt work being done around these parts for a while. The rain and storms going through the area for the last three days will make sure of that!
Still pushing clay. At this time the clay is at about the optimum consistency to really work good and not stick in the bucket of the loader or the blade of the dozer. Tracks are also not loading up too bad. Mechanically everything is holding together and the machines are preforming as they should. Knock on wood!
Sounds good. Just read an article in the paper this morning saying that many of the farmers around here are about 2 weeks behind on planting due to the wet weather we have been having. I was noticing just yesterday how many fields did not have any green showing, most that I'm assuming are corn. The old saying of "Knee high by the 4th of July" is not going to happen at that rate. Usually the corn around these parts is closer to waist high by then, this year will be lucky if it's up to your ankles!
You know Ken, it was my intention from the start of this adventure to buy the machined and do my own work to save some money and then sell the machines. I bought the machines and spent a lot of time and money getting them put back in dependable working condition. At this point I will have to say that they both have paid their way out. If both needed to be scrapped I would still be ahead. I am expecting much more work from both of them and I feel like they are up to the task, with a reasonable amount of TLC. At this point I wouldn't consider selling either one of them. They are handy to have around and, like an old dog, have earned their keep for the money that they have saved me. Also, I have to say that if I had not been able to do the wrenching and maintenance myself It would be a different story. Old iron is a gamble and just like gambling, never invest more than you are willing to loose. I wish that I could do as well playing black jack in the casino!
I have been moving a lot of dirt lately. I am working at it about four hours a session. I have been using the D-4 dozer one day and then going back to the 951 loader the next day. I really can't say which machine moves the most dirt with the same amount of work, time, and fuel. Both machines are doing all that I can ask of them. I had a large white oak stump to dig out today and I was using the loader. Last week I had another white oak stump about the same size and I was using the dozer to dig it out. Hands down, the loader was quicker and more efficient for the stump removal job.
I can see the loader working better if you get a bite on the stump with the teeth then roll the bucket back while pushing to lift it out of the ground. Have a couple stumps in the yard I'd like to get rid off but no equipment to do it. The biggest is from a poplar tree so it is slowly taking care of it's self as they rot pretty fast. Every now and then I have at it with the chain saw to open up new places for water to get in and do the work.
wouldnt sell mine either only used it 3 times since last fall. had 4.5 ft diameter oak tree die and was leaning over my house had to crack the throttle a little more than usual but pushed it over a whole lot cheaper than calling tree service. yes i do have pics if i can get my son here long enough to post them. D75S had just about all it wanted with tree on the ground
Ouch, that hurt. My bucket just broke! Prying in hard clay and it just popped. It had been repaired there once before I think. Someone had done some welding there in the past. Would you try repairing the bucket or replace it. I have several calls out for a used bucket but I have not been able to located one yet. No idea of a price when and if I do find one. Does anyone know if that same bucket fits other model loaders?
That one may be a real challenge having had the floor folded. May want to set it off on a trailer and see if any weld shops will take that on as it will be more than just welding back up. A good used bucket may be no better and cost a small fortune besides. Took me a decent month of steady on actual work to re-floor and re-sidewall my own bucket. I had braced it prior to floor and side panel removals as well. Hard part is finding a depth of cutback as to where to start rebuilding.
If I don't find a reasonable priced used bucket I will be rebuilding the old one myself. I know that it will be time consuming but I have time and I think that I could do a decent job with it.
wow, that musta hurt, everything is fixable...if you ever wanted a 4 way bucket, nows the time to make the decision..fix or replace..either way I would probably fix it and have a spare if you did go the 4 way bucket route..
Appears it has been cracked/ripping for some time, probably hidden beneath old welds. Could try to fold it back with pressure of the machine first to somewhat flatten the folded edge then tack it followed by setting it off inside for some serious gouge and weld time. Laying a reinforcement underpan to that floor could extend its life, just get it clean before getting into it.
Yikes, that is a real ouchie for sure!! That is going to be a challenge to fix, but if you are persistent & take your time it can be done. Do you have a DC welder? I think an option would be to look for a used bucket if available. I wonder if the loader arm spacing & pin size is the same as a 941, as I think the 941 was more common & more buckets may be out there. I believe the 941 is 1 1/4 yds & 951 is 1 1/2 yds. If I know the measurements from your loader arm spacing & pin sizes, I could check mine for you, as mine is a 941?
If the bucket sides are still good, you can probably cut the bottom square at the back and weld a new floor in. You may even be able to cut off the old cutting edge and teeth and reuse them. If you do rebuild what you have, make some gussets for the front corners out of plate. You'll need a rosebud or maybe you could get a fab shop to bend them in a press. Basically you take a plate and bend it to fit the 90 deg. corner where the cutting edge meets the side and weld it in all around on the inside. It's hard to tell but it doesn't look like the bucket has any wear strips on the bottom. They would help a lot too. 2 on the outside edge and another 2 in middle. Would be a good idea to weld a temporary brace between the side plates so they stay straight. I think there was somebody on this forum who rebuilds a lot of buckets and posted a bunch of pics.
We have been waiting for update on that bucket repair job Nitelite? Any progress to report on?
No progress to report on yet. I have been looking for a used bucket that is in good shape. So far I have only found one but they want the price of half of a machine for it.
Main reason I rebuilt the GP off my donor. My MP was too danged heavy actually awkward while the donor bucket came 90% intact but worn slick. Had looked at buying a used FA corporate pattern loader bucket to make work on mine and not deal with the worn out piece I had but numbers crunched it was the only route I could take. I had almost $700 in steel plate, basically cut to pattern then over a hundred pounds of 7018 1/8" DC rod. A little less than 30 lbs. in 3/32" tack and root pass rod. Lots of 4 1/2" angle grinder flap wheels and cut off wheels. Had to refill the gas axe tanks twice to get the cuts/scrubs made I needed it for. Used two new and finished out one 8" ferrous metal saw blade (I have a Milwaukee metal cold saw). Most shops have capacity to punch teeth shank bolt holes for you saving drill and Armstrong time.
They want $2800.00 for the used bucket. The bucket is not far from me, not over 50 miles. The business that contacted me and said that they found a bucket evidently does not own the bucket yet. They refuse to tell me where it is located so I can't go inspect it. They sent pictures but I can't tell about cracks, wear or anything else from the pictures. I will look some more.
At $2800 they allow inspection or tell them pack it. No see no buy as that is steep for a used component and no idea as to status. Still cheaper to repair your own just time consuming.
I did a search on Machinery Trader, came up with a 5V4664 GP bucket p/n. Only one in the general listings under attachments for a WHOPPING $4600, looked to be a takeoff rather than a salvage as almost new appearing but no teeth. Way high for my pockets. Maybe try Rock and Dirt search or one of the other sites with parts contacts.
did you get a price from a quality welder to rebuild your bucket?
My cat complete bucket # is a 6k906.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Caterpillar...hash=item2837b7b74d:m:mOR27eMgPNH8wzOjCZr6usg Maybe this site will have a bucket to sell for a 951.
Any of these guys reasonably close? 3 in TN. and I know is a long narrow state. http://www.rockanddirt.com/search?m...l=951c&distance=&zip=&submit.x=45&submit.y=13
Not sure if this will be of any use but too the P/N Nitelite posted and ran it through Cat's NPR search. As could be expected it comes back "Discontinued" but does show the S/N ranges of machines that used that same part number bucket. I believe when it shows a 0000 in the last column that means "To the last S/N built"
How does a 5V4664 rack up KS?
Well Not very good! This is all SIS/NPR shows for that number:
That is not looking good
Miller, I inquired at the places that you posted, no answer yet.
Thanks for looking Ken. My loader is a 86J2188.
Interesting as NPR says the 6K0906 bucket was only used up to the 86J1991 S/N so looks like yours might not have it's original bucket! For your S/N I'm seeing bucket # 8K6453 and when I stick that into NPR a different P/N shows up 6K0971 and that one says "loose material" which makes me think it is a lighter duty bucket. Not sure if it will help but here's the NPR page:
Damn I am glad you're on this forum. I like spec sheets this clear.
Great Lakes equipment has ONE, $2208.29, appears in the photo to be less cutting edge and teeth, no idea of condition from there. And I have no idea where they came up with that price??? https://www.greatlakesequipment.com/caterpillar-bucket-p/38457-53.htm
Went back thru your post NL, found a side view of your machine when digging the drain line trough. When I looked along the bucket line appears there is a seam as if the bottom had been replaced prior. May be able to brace the side panels across the bucket and cut away that entire sheet weld in a replacement. May be the easiest on the wallet. Will need the teeth off yours, then order a cutting edge replacement with new teeth shank bolts and have the steel shop stamp out the bolt holes to match. From that point is just a lot of grind, 7018 and dress off time. Looked to see configuration if same as Great Lakes has, look almost similar but not either. Easy way to align the bottom sheet to the back wall is to set and weld some 'helper' small plates three or four top and same but staggered bottom then align the sheet between them until tacked into place, Wish I lived close enough to come help or make the offer to build for you.
I have the bucket with a welder for now to get some idea of a price. As the bucket was heaped when the weld broke it pretty well destroyed the bucket. I agree that everything is fixable but some things are just more trouble than it is worth. Still seeking a used replacement at a decent price at this time. Too hot to get much work done right now anyway.
If I can find a different bucket in good shape, I might can cut the hinges off both buckets and weld my old hing pins on to a different bucket easier than I can fix mine. I did locate a bucket that might can be modified in that way. I just don't have a price for it or even know that it could be bought.
I am still betting on the welder beating price for a used bucket that has to be modded to fit. If can find a direct pin on would be the ticket in this case.
I agree with you Miller, just haven't found the direct pin on for a decent price yet. I am thinking, I don't have a DC welder, just an old Lincoln tombstone. I can probably invest in a good DC welder, the steel and the rods and come out better than buying a $2800.00 used bucket sight unseen. You bought a welder not too long ago to the best of my memory. What did you buy and what could I expect to pay?
There are a few good machines out there, I chose a more expensive Miller CST280 knowing I would be using it a lot and spent $2200 without leads. Had to install the 240V plug and open the machine to swap from 480 down to 240V. Can buy a lesser machine but need to look at duty cycles, reasonably I would not expect much of a machine for less then a grand. Mine is rated 100% duty at 165 amps 240v, 180 amps 480v (3 ph), is also convertible to TIG. Anything too light may cut out too often and screw with your welds. I could burn 1/8" 7018DC rods one right after another with the slag rolling off as cooled where my old buzz box would flat cut out after three and had to wait for ten to fifteen minutes between rods to get decent welds. If you go this route check with your steel supply as to rods, they will have access to good quality DC rods.
Hope I did not scare you as to the price.
I think that I might have found a bucket, going to look at it now.
GOOD!
Do you have any pictures of the bucket that you went to look at?
My nephew can fix it , he just graduated from Hobart Welding Institute in Ohio. Put a floor in it try to retain the teeth , maybe a several hundred in steel. TomV on the other forum repaired lots of excavator buckets , and they catch hell.
I have not laid eyes on it yet but my brother works about a mile from where it is at. He also owns equipment and says that it is in excellent shape. I have made the deal over the phone and will pick it up when the scrapper has the time to lower the bucket to the ground and remove it.
Looks to be in bad need of cleaning up, a paint job, and a good going over. My brother that looked at it for me has been a tool and die maker and machinist for his entire life and he would know how to inspect it. When I go after the bucket I just might find other parts that I might can use. I might even be moving dirt again shortly.
Forgot to mention that the D4 E is also down. It has an tilt cylinder out on the blade leaking. I picked up a new seal kit but it is just too hot to be fooling with it right now. It also has something wearing the inside of the right sprocket teeth pretty good. I am thinking maybe a broken bottom roller flange. I will get around to hoisting her up on the blade and checking it out before I need it again.
Great news, the bucket does not look too roughed up just a little neglected. Mind checking for cracks as you get it home and can turn it upside down. Teeth points and shanks appear to have been taken care of as opposed to many.
I will really be glad to get her going again. Track loaders can't do much without a bucket.
I hear that. They also do not do well with tons of steel on the arms as my old MP was!
Brought the new/old bucket home today. It is in really good shape and I am lucky to have found it. It was less than fifty miles away. It is also the same bucket that was located and offered to me through another equipment company for $2800.00. I bought it direct from the owner for $1500.00. Going to need some prep work and a dab of Cat yellow paint now. Better yet, I will install the bucket and let about ten to twelve hours of dirt work take the majority of the rust off as part of the prep.
Miller, locating that bucket is thanks to you. I acted on your tip about checking with Rock and Dirt. I advertised on the Rock and Dirt site for the bucket. Cobb equipment Co. in La Vergne TN. called me after seeing the add and said that he was parting out a 951-C with a good bucket. Thanks for the idea. Thank you Ken on your help too. I will just locate my old bucket in the edge of the woods around here for maybe salvaging its teeth someday. The rest will end up as scrap someday, but no hurry to get rid of it just yet.
At times I can be helpful, or so the wife tells me!! Thanks for the notice NL. Good luck to you with the new shovel too.
When do we get our first pictures of that new bucket???
Yep, I got pictures.
Someone has added cheek sheets but that is a plus as far as I am concerned. Welds look good just look closer than I can for small end of run cracks that could eventually run. Cutting edge looks fine for age. I believe you've done well for the $$
Yep, let the dirt work polish the parts that the paint will wear off when in the dirt. That will save a bit of paint that you know will be gone by the end of the first day anyhow!
I got about 9 hours on the new bucket now, it is really shining up good. I think the only part of the bucket that needs painting is what I can see of it from the seat. I stashed the old crushed bucket in a safe out of the way place for future use, teeth etc.
Are the pins pretty tight in the new bucket? On my 941 we had to build up the pin bosses with weld to take up some of the free play. Put 4 new aftermarket pins in the bucket at the same time. Much better now.
I got the pins with the bucket and put them back in their original position, They are almost a press fit. had to tap in with a small balpine My old pins were worn but the bosses were in good shape. Much better cutting edges and teeth. I am pleased.
Got another five hours in on shining up the bucket today. Today's work is the first time that I have ever ran the loader in third gear. I have the working layout so that I am digging on one hill and transporting downhill and up the next rise to dump. I am running third gear forward down hill and shifting to 2nd and then to 1st to dump and grade, then reverse 3rd all the way back to the turn around to dig again. Moving a lot of dirt in a short time using that layout. It seems worth a little extra wear on the UC. The new bucket has paid it's way out already.
That old loader looks awful little to move that hillside but it has already moved over half of it. Just like eating a bowl of cereal, one spoon full at a time until I break down, the machine breaks down, or the dirt is all gone. When the digging is done that is where my new building is going to be situated to house the five ton, trailer and jeep, amongst other toys.
3rd gear in reverse is the worst for undercarriage wear and your tracks look pretty tight. The new bucket looks like you might be able to bolt wear strips between the teeth to almost eliminate cutting edge wear.
The tight tracks are attributable to the clay buildup in the sprocket teeth. the soil condition right now is just right to pack the teeth. I am maintaining a smooth running surface to transport the dirt to make each trip a smooth ride. Yes those extra punched holes are for wear strips to be added between teeth. I am not sure that I need to invest in them. I will keep an eye on the wear and respond if need be.
I have noticed on my old 941 that the tracks will go from tight to quite loose, depending on the soil/moisture conditions that I work in.
They recommend adjusting the tension to the conditions they're working in. Tight tracks, reverse and 3rd gear relates to $$$ for me.
If I adjust the tracks for packing of the hard clay and it rains I will be re adjusting for wet clay conditions. When it dries out to powder conditions it will make a big difference because packing won't be a factor at all.
There must be some moisture that is causing them to pack. I think a little loose is better than too tight.
That old red clay is like a sponge, holds moisture a long time once wet but when dry is like concrete.
That red clay will build a good dam or a solid road if you layer it and walk it in as you go.
They may be, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Judging by the bolt pattern of the holes I can see I would say that bucket is designed to have EITHER teeth OR a bolt-on cutting edge (or edges) installed. I'm not sure you could fit cutting edge protectors in between the teeth you have now using the bolt holes I can see in your photos.
Nitelite those holes are for reversible wear plates to go in between the teeth. I have them on my 953 and would highly suggest you invest in some as it takes the wear instead of the bucket edge. Look at aftermarket for your usage as Cat is expensive for those. I've went through many sets on my 953 and the bucket edge is hardly worn with 5K hours on the clock. A plus is the plates are handy when worn out - square them up with a gas axe and they make great wear plates to weld on the bottom of buckets. I used some worn out ones when we beefed up our new skid steer bucket. The worn plate is under the welders hammer. Welded that plate as a wear strip between the factory one and the D5G cutting edges on the edge and back of the bucket. It's hard to tell in the pic and I don't have a close up but here is my 953 with the edge protectors.
Been too wet around here to get much dirt work done. My contractor is about to start building on to the end of my house. I am also having a three car garage built. There is an existing 14'x21' building sitting in the same place as the new garage is going. I tore off a side shed and am now in the process of getting the building ready to move. It is too good of a building to destroy. I cut two tall straight 10" hickory trees and cut them 30" long. Shoved them under the building and cut two poles to go across the front and back of the building. I am using the 951-C to pick the building up and the ag tractor to push the poles under. I have a asphalt driveway and plan on pulling the building on the poles straight down the driveway. I plan on picking up one end with the loader and just back up, dragging the building by chains hooked to the front of the poles. The contractor is going to saw the asphalt and remove the first 21'. The loader has triple grousers, so it may, or may not damage the asphalt. I have that first 21' to experiment with. If the loader destroys the asphalt I will use the 5 ton military truck with the winch and just winch the building down the driveway. If I have to, I have several electric poles that I can use as rollers under the poles. I'll get pictures of the move tomorrow if I don't forget.
Killer thread I'm glad I found it. Nitelite you're an inspiration to us all, and the knowledge here is really making we want to dump this Komatsu and buy a Cat. Yall are awesome.
Glad you are enjoying the thread OL2STROKER. I need to update the thread as I have been using the loader quite a bit lately. I have been cutting out for the new garage and backfilling around the new addition to the home. I also have to cut out for a second new building to use as a home for the 5 ton and a equipment shed. I really am partial to Caterpillar, some of the guys on the forum seem to like various other brands. It is a personal preference for what ever brand that you happened to find a deal and cut your teeth on. Just run what you brung and learn to do the wrenching on it yourself. Welcome to the forum and thanks for the comment!
Digging out for the new three car garage The old 951 just keeps on keeping on. The new addition on the house is well underway and is now finished outside. Got part of the concrete work done as you can see. The grandson (Castle) enjoyed watching the loader work.
Any updates, James? I know it's a bad time of year to get much done. Hope you are well!
Well, since you asked, yes there are updates. My doctor (Cardiologist) called me in in November and told me that my pacemaker/defibrillator had saved my life sixty nine times in the past two weeks. On the 5th of December I went into the hospital for a heart ablation. Using a laser they burned out anything in my heart that would cause a heartbeat. I am now totally dependent on the pacemaker. On January 3rd I left for Hawaii for two weeks and got back on January 17th. The home addition is finished. I am hoping to do the dirt work for the garage tomorrow (Friday) as it is supposed to rain on Saturday. I need to do about half a days work with the loader and then finish it up with the dozer. I have someone else to dig the foundation with a backhoe and pour the concrete. You are right CalvinJim, it is border line, almost too wet but I need to get the dirt work done. I also need to do the dirt work for a five stall metal outbuilding and a 18 x 56 metal addition to my shop to put the 5 ton in. I try to keep busy, it beats the couch.
I had been wondering about you as well, as there were no recent posts. Sure hope that by tweaking things that it will make things better for you in the ticker. Good luck with it moving forward & let us know how the dirt work progresses. We are to get rain up here tomorrow as well.
Glad to hear the old ticker is still ticking and you still kicking the C as well. I am anxious for winter to be done where the wet of spring eases off and I can get my old girl back into the swing.
I did get about two hours in before the rain, not near enough to accomplish what I need to do. Worse thing is now it will take more than a week with no rain to be able to finish. It was a pleasant surprise that after months of sitting idle both machines fired right up just as if they had been used the day before. Actually the work on the ticker did make me feel much better, just don't have as much stammana. Live for the day because there'll come a day when we just won't be here anymore. I was in Hawaii when earl in the morning we got the urgent emergency news notice on our cell phones that we had fourteen minutes before a ICBM that was launched from North Korea would hit the island. I just rolled over and went back to sleep. Metalman, bet you have had some rough weather up your way. I think bad weather and hard freeze probably hit Miller too.
Nitelite, I hope if we ever get that "In coming ICBM" warning here in Central NY I hope we have a few minutes more so I have time to get to the local rib joint so I can order a "full rack and a large local brewed IPA" to wash it down, OH don't for get the Jalapeno Corn Bread !
I was thinking that I might need to build a hardened hangar to put the two cats and the rest of the toys in.
We have had a round or two with sub freezing temps and a little ice and snow then rain but not all that bad SO FAR!! Winter is not done until end of March for me.
And up here it can be closer to the end of April for us! Fiveteen years ago we had a few flakes of snow on May 19th 2003! We are north but often on that weekend we are putting our tomatoes in! Not that year!
Been one of those Missouri months for February. Seventy one day snow the next, currently frost on the deck and yet to be mid sixties by noon. COME ON SPRING!!
She is alive! I put about twelve hours on the 951 C in the last three days. Hope to do a lot more in the next few weeks. I had to spend the last few months sitting. I came real close to loosing my right leg because of a diabetic foot ulcer that refused to heal. My podiatrist found it on December 19th, had to stay off of it until April 16th. That foot seems to push the pedals on the 951 pretty good now. I will have the D4E out tomorrow. It is direct drive so it will really test out the foot.
Nitelite, have been thinking about the absence of posts from you & that explains it. Do hope all is ok & take it easy. Dont we wish we could turn the clock back 34-40 yrs with our health?
Nitelite, Glad to hear you are on the mend and able to get some seat time in on the 951 again. We are still hoping to see temperature above 50º some day soon. Believe we did it back in Feb but ever since been below normal. Right now we have a thin coat of the white stuff on the grass!
Great to hear you and the weather are getting better. Enjoy getting out and playing with your machines! Darryl
Oh yea, 33 degrees last night but it should get up to 75 degrees today with the sun shining. That should dry up some of the muck. After breakfast this morning I plan to put in a few hours on the loader and dozer. I am working on a road and three building pads. You guys North of me should be seeing lots of improvement too. Time to get the grease gun out. I will try to get some pictures of the projects that I have going on. That old loader still amazes me. At this point I honestly think that it will outlast me. No doubt that it needs far less maintenance than I require to keep it going.
Well the high, if you can call it that! around here in Central NY is going to be way up to 40ºf today!
So glad to see you writing in and riding high on the old iron still.
Nitelite, glad to hear your update as always. Maybe we'll enjoy a little spring time weather before the blazing summer. Feels like January 121st around here.
The "high" for me today was eight hours split between the loader. dozer, and the tractor. Temperature wise, it is 70 degrees today and rain in the forecast for the next four days. It has been a long winter guys, but spring is here!
Nice to hear an update James. You be sure to look after yourself, ya' hear ...
More rain, can't do a thing. Good hearing from you Nige.
A month ago we were chewing dust. Now we seem to be into the "40 days & 40 nights" version of rainfall. Only difference is that work in the shop doesn't stop even when it's hi$$ing it down outside.
Hey Nitelight, hope all is well with you and your family! Any updates?
Plenty updates since my last post. I have put many hours on the 951 since my last post. I just finished digging a full basement with a walkout for my daughter's new house. Broken fan belt is the only breakdown that I have had since the last post. I broke my right arm three days ago and it is in a cast for the next 12 weeks. An automatic transmission fell off of a transmission jack breaking my arm in the process. My son is building a new house also. Rather than transport my 951 we just bought a 955-K. The 955 is really a nice machine with about 75% uc left. The quote to do the dirt work was $16,ooo. The 955 was $15,000 plus $500. to transport. More later and I will get some pictures.
Nitelite, Clicked on "Like" but did not mean I liked the idea of the broken arm! That 955-K sounds like a good deal, do the work and resell if you don't have need for it and got the dirt work more or less free!
Glad to hear you're keeping busy! It sounds like you do more work in a few months than a "millennial" would do in a lifetime.....plus, you actually know what a TRANSMISSION IS and how to work on one no less!
Good afternoon Nitelite,it’s been good to catch up with your adventures again since the last time. I’m sorry to see you’ve been in the wars abit,but onwards and upwards. It’s been a very,long and hot summer for us in the UK and had plenty of work out of the D8’. No complaints
Life is good indeed. Sixty days with the right arm in a cast and just got a new one yesterday. I have to wear this new cast for at least a month. They say that I was not following instructions and the broken ends have moved. New instructions is not to lift anything heavier than a pencil with the right arm. I can agree with the color of the pencil but the weight limitation is hard to deal with. That transmission is spread across my workbench in hundreds of pieces. I have the kit and then had to order new steels and bushings. I got to checking closer and found that the needle bearings in the rear planetary gear were worn pretty bad. The new planetary is due to arrive tomorrow. I have hired a young man to help assembling the 700 R-4 transmission, being the only part that I can lift is maybe a snap ring.
As far as the mistreatment of the arm, I have been using the 951 about five hours per day. I also jump on the D4-E when it fits the need. No flies have been able to lite on the McCormick ag tractor either. I have moved an unbelievable amount of dirt, mud, and clay in the last year and push the machines to their limits. I have run up hundreds of trouble free seat time hours, mostly on the loader. I attribute the trouble free running to the repairs and rebuilding of the old machines, before attempting to put them to hard work. I did manage to run the loader out of fuel the day before yesterday. Remind me never to do that again. It was overdue for a fuel filter change anyway. I am not running the track covers due to them packing in mud that I am working in. As the boot step is on the covers, I have been parking alongside a step ladder to ease the use of the broken right arm. The track rails were covered with mud the other day and my foot slipped to the ground. As I was hanging on to a grab bar with both hands, I think that is where I re injured the broken bone.
Tomorrow I will pull both machines into their stalls in the barn and wait for the arm to heal. With a helper I will work on the transmission and some other projects. I am at a stopping point on the dirt work on my daughter's new house anyway. I managed to get the driveway graded and graveled. Back filling is up to the point where the brick ledge remains exposed and the brick have been delivered. I have transfer fuel on the truck to fill the tank on my son's 955-K. I can't wait to get him started on digging his basement. The contractor wants to try pouring the foundation late Jan. or early Feb. I can supervise from the stump position.
All the best to you and your family for the Holiday Season James. You take care of yourself, and let the young bulls do all the heavy lifting.......
Let that arm heal NL, don't be pushing quite so hard until it is ready!! BTW, Merry Christmas and LAY OFF until After New Year so it becomes a Great New Year!!
Just to catch up.
Above is my 1948 Ford F-1. 450 hp 350 Chevy engine bored 30 over with the 700-R-4 four speed auto trans. Four wheel power disk brakes, power steering, tilt wheel, cold air, power heated seats and a lot more goodies. And yes, I had to give my right arm for it. As shown, it is in my shop, up on jack stands with the transmission removed. The next picture (above) is my new three car garage,right outside my back door. It is 28' x 44' with three 8' x 10' roll up doors.
Above is the disassembled transmission. I got the last needed part in the mail today.
Broken arm in its third cast Two more new buildings, the one shown being framed is for my 5 ton M39 troop transport, the M151 military Jeep, and M109 military 5 ton trailer. The truck fits with the trailer hooked up and the Jeep on the trailer. Total length is 50 feet. She clears by less than a foot with the 12 x 12 front and rear building doors closed. The building itself is 18 x 52 outside,built on a six inch concrete slab. The five bay building to the right has three 10 x 10 bays in the center and two 12' wide x 10' tall on either end. That building houses the D4-E dozer, the 951-C track loader, the F250 fuel truck, The McCormick ag tractor, the ** 2135 commercial tractor, my boat, and the Honda pioneer side x side. That building also has roll up doors. Those projects are finished at this time as they were started in July of 2018. The level land where those buildings stand used to be a hill side until the hill side met up with the 951 and the D4. I dug down more than twenty feet on the upper end. I used almost 200 yards of concrete and 448 ton of gravel. I have started a shed for the dump truck but due to the arm it is on hold until spring.
The latest project was digging a basement for my daughter. I dug the basement 48' wide 85' long, including the walk out and pad. eleven feet deep on the uphill side and six feet deep on the lower, (front side). I took out several trees in the 40 inch range, but they had to go. I will get pictures to post. The house is dried in at this time. Electrical, HVAC and pluming rough in is also done. We have gotten our water from a spring for more than forty years. I piped the spring into a 1000 gallon concrete holding tank from which is pumped to the house. In considering the water need for two houses now, I just had a 1800 gallon concrete holding tank made to replace the old 1000 gallon tank. I had the new tank custom built with outlets for two pumps. We will share the water with our daughter and her family.
Thanks for the updates Nitelite! In spite of your injuries, you have been busy with all those projects going on! Nice job on the shop too......looks well built. The 48 Ford is done up nice as well...…….looks great! Did you do the restoration yourself?
Metalman, I bought the 48 Ford pretty well the way it is but I have also done quite a bit of work to it. The transmission was supposed to have only 500 miles on it but whoever rebuilt it did a poor job and now I found it necessary to open it up and do a proper rebuild, replacing all that was neglected on the first rebuild. Several more things need to be done or redone to make the truck right. Something else to tinker with. Everything that I own is old. I have found that if you can keep old stuff inside and out of the weather, it helps to prolong its useful life. If I park the old machines inside for a month, then when I go back to use them, they are just as I left them. Buildings are cheaper than replacing machinery. If they are kept inside they can be serviced in inclement weather. I imagine that living where you live, you know all about inclement weather. More project pictures. The new house, the new spring holding tank.
Have a small slow discharge spring on our place, drops into a small creek and flows year round, have often thought of capturing that water for other uses but for now supplies a drinking pool for cattle/wildlife.
Good to hear from you Miller, when I moved here and built the house after returning from the Army in 1970 there was no public water available. A well was out of my financial reach but the spring was available for free water. I paid $150 to have the first 1000 gallon concrete tank fabricated and it supplied all of our water needs for more than forty years. That new replacement tank was $1400 but I expect that it will handle the family water needs of both houses for many years to come. The little spring puts out about a gallon every three minutes 24/7. The overflow, combined with several other springs, feeds a fishing lake. I have another spring that puts out an eight inch stream. It is like a fire hydrant and makes for a really cold lake capable of good habitat for Bass and other game fish. I built the dam and impounded the lake in 1973.
Having trouble with the 955k. When the loaded bucket is raised and curled it will slowly uncurl while traveling to the dump site unless I continually and constantly feather the curl lever. I am thinking that it is in the curl/uncurl valve. Any ideas would help. We are still using the machine but it is a pain to travel and feather the control lever.
Sure it's not the cylinder seals?
Would seriously suspect curl cylinder seals on this.
One cylinder has a realy slow drip. Maybe a drip every three minutes. I will eventually reseal it but I can't see it as serious enough to cause the bucket to uncurl in thirty feet. I am also thinking that both cylinders would bee leaking in order to cause the uncurl. Up for consideration would be a bad internal leak letting fluid seep past the rod piston seals inside the cylinder bore.
One way to test cylinders for internal leaks is to block off the port at one end then put pressure in the opposite end as in the picture below: Pressure going in the "rod end" of cylinder should try to force the piston and rod to move to the right in the above picture. If however the piston seals "ARE" leaking past the rod will extend out. How fast will depend on how bad the leak is! In a prefect cylinder with no air in the cylinder the rod would not move at all however if there is a slight amount of air in the end opposite the rod the rod will move a small amount to the right. With two cylinders working together like on the tilt circuit it would be best to check them both at the same time. If the pressure is applied at the opposite end of the cylinder a leaking piston seal will instead cause the ram to retract when pressure is applied to extend the rod. I had a good selection of block off plates and disks but don't have part numbers for them here. The best ones were the disks that were the same size as the end of the lines where you could just remove one of the split flanges, slip hose out and slip the disc with oring in it back in place and reinstall the flange half. Not sure if there is a list of these by sizes but that would be handy if someone has one, NIGE? any chance you have one?
I did find this list but not 100% sure they are the right sizes for the 951-C cylinders. Unfortunately they are not listed by OD might have to do some work to see if I can find those spec's. Redid the form so it was all in one place:
What's the difference between a 951 and a 955? I see they are both front engine track loaders, but are there a lot of differences? Capacity? Horsepower? Ground pressure/track gauge? I'm curious as I'm considering looking for a trackloader to do similar work to what you've been doing @Nitelite . What are your thoughts between the 2 track loaders?
You can google the specifications for both machines. There really is not a lot of difference in the machines. The control levers are the same. The weight and measurements are just slightly different. The 955 K has a turbo that gives it about fifteen more HP. The 951 has no turbo but the difference in HP is not detectable from the operator's seat. The 951 is about ten years newer than the 955 but on machines that are that old age is not a factor to consider but rather how they were treated and maintained. Parts are plentiful and readily available for both machines at decent prices from Cat or multiple aftermarket sources. If you can do your own wrenching, one of those older caterpillars that has had a little TLC can be a good investment and relativity easy on the pocketbook. Any machine will need reasonable maintenance and repairs along the way.
Thanks for the info kshansen. As the cylinders are beginning to leak to the outside, I think my best bet would be to spend my time rebuilding them hoping for the quick fix. They are no trouble to rebuild and I have everything that it takes to do it. Then, if that don't cure the problem do the troubleshooting including the pressure checking. If overhauling the cylinders is not the cure, then it must be the control valve or a return hose sucking air. The machine does have a hydraulic leak coming from somewhere underneath that I have not checked out. I am seeing one drop every two minutes. If that leak is the main return hose, it could be sucking air into the system. I just need to suck it up, keep on operating and hope that it can last long enough to finish the basement job that it is working on now. There is a deadline to meet before foundation contractor shows up to dig the footers and pour concrete. I'll keep you posted as to what I find.
951 is non turbo, a couple tons lighter with a smaller bucket but very similar. Cylinder drift is cylinder seals 90% of the time but if there is a leak in any of the lines going to those cylinders would also make the cylinders creep. Only one cylinder needs to leak for both to creep since they are connected together. If the rod seals are leaking, it's probably 98% cylinder seals are the problem if nothing else is leaking. The rods seals alone could cause the cylinders to creep because they aren't holding the pressure to keep the bucket up.
Thanks Welder Dave, everything points to rebuilding the tilt cylinders. Good rainy day work, if only the machine was in the dry.
Really cold weather coming this week so I brought the dozer home and put it in the barn. The dozer fired right up after sitting in the cold for two months. Batteries needed charging on the track loader. I removed all of the cables and cleaned them after the battery charge. Attempting to reconnect the cables with a broken arm cost me a 3/8 Snap On ratchet along with a 1/2 socket and a 1/2 inch end wrench. Went belly pan fishing with a strong magnet but no such luck. Now I feel the need to invest in one of those cameras on a flexible rod.
This is one **** eatin grin. Joe H
After four months the right arm is still broken. It may not heal. Doc says give it two more months. Sure does make wrenching hard, and impossible to pull on one wrench while pushing on another.
May be time for some electro stimulation bone growth therapy, buddy of mine had to do that AND Massive doses of Vitamin D.
Yep, I don't like the idea of surgery at all. A dangling forearm might come in handy somewhere down the line. I kind of thought that the added flexibility of the arm would make it easier to reach down into the belly pan to retrieve those lost wrenches but that didn't work out either. I can still operate ok. I am just waiting on some dry weather so I can do the final back filling and grading around the house.
Hi Nitelite, just read the entire thread over a week or so. You certainly are an inspiration and the best of luck to you. Two things that I thought you would find interesting. 1. I saw a 6x6 truck advertised for sale over here in Australia the other day and the photos and specs were identical to yours. They were ONLY asking $50k as well, but I suppose it is supply and demand, there wouldn't be much of a supply over here. 2. Amongst other machines I have a JCB backhoe, a few days ago I had the exact same symptoms with the crowd rams. I kept working it an 1/2 hr later one of the seals blew out and oil was shooting out like a garden hose. One of the rams had a slight weep previously but that was all. So be extra careful with people and objects around the 955 til you get the seals done. Again I enjoyed the read and I hope your arm fully heals up quickly from now on. Thanks Brett
did you even reinstall a kitchen countertop?
The arm has mostly healed, still gets sore with prolonged use. I have been giving the 951 a workout lately. That old machine is really tough and has been virtually trouble free since the engine overhaul and new track chains and sprockets. Worst task is using the grease gun on all of those many fittings. The machine has paid its way out many times over. I will be pushing up brush piles tomorrow for burning. I can't report on any repairs because there havn't been any break downs. Not on the D4 or the 951. My tools are rusting, and that is no bad thing.
Nitelite, Glad to hear the machines are going strong! Doing the repairs right sure makes them last, a long with taking care of them after the repairs.
Hi, Nitelight, get yourself a battery powered grease gun, it will be a godsend for your arm
Glad to hear you are back in Bidness!! and working the loader and dozer hard!!
bccat, I use a air powered grease gun. My son uses a battery powered gun. The big difference is getting out the air hose and firing up the compressor. I just need to park within hose distance of the machines. I just might consider the battery powered gun next time I see them on sale. Good to hear from you kshansen.
Nice to check in on your post Nitelite and glad the arm seems to be getting better
Good to hear from you nicky, it has been awhile but I guess, from dirt we came and to dirt we will return. Dirt work just seems to get into your blood!
Indeed sir. None of us are in any hurry though
I was following his post also. I am planning to have a kitchen remodel also. Do you know a good store for kitchen countertops? Any advice too for kitchen remodelling ideas?
Good luck on your kitchen remodel bro. Try to have a quartzite. You'll definitely be going to love that countertop. If you're looking for a store nearby and their other info's, you should check quartzite countertop cost . You can also check for their address and all other contact information there. Hope this helps!
Hey, I'll surely check their website later after work. thanks!
This is an amazing thread,I read a few pages today and I'm going to read it all,you are truly an inspiration!
Lock and Lube grease gun hose ends also are a big help when greasing
Goes right back to that saying work smarter and this is one sweet gun the only ones better squirt lead an copper
Allways a good read Nitelite. I guess this shutdown gives us all time to catch up. I’ve still got a D8T ripping up a quarry here in the UK during the lockdown and a D9T in the yard that I’m tinkering with.
How much does it cost to "tinker" with a D9T?
Not certain is much can 'Tinker' on with those beasties!!
Must be nice to have money.
I’d have money if I wasn’t tinkering with these things
I know, it's a terrible disease having equipment. The bigger issue is most people that have it don't want the cure. Instead they come on a forum to discuss ways to spend even more of each others money with little regard to feeding the illness.
That's one of the reasons I spend so much time here. Love spending other people's money and once in a while actually help fix a machine. All without skinning my knuckles or even getting hands greasy!
Hello old friends, I am still around. I am getting ready to play in the dirt putting in a new driveway as soon as I can catch some good weather. I will be using the 951-C and the D4-E. I also have purchased, a new to me, 1999 GMC C 8500 Dump truck that I will be using on that and other projects. Since my last post I have had no break downs and the only repairs that have been needed was a battery cable end that got loose and burned the positive battery post on the 951-C. Quite a simple fix. Both the loader and dozer are in good shape and ready to work. I spent a lot of time and a few bucks on the machines on the front end of the venture, but they have both more paid for themselves many times over. They are kept inside, are well maintained, and ready when I need them. I hope that you are all well and avoiding the COVID 19 virus.
Good that you're OK. I found this thread a while ago and that's how I ended up on HEF, I read through the entire thread and have been very impressed with your work. I do keep wondering when you're going to get round to the job you originally bought the machine for?
Good to hear from you James. You make sure and keep safe please.
Great to hear from you and that you're doing well. How's the arm feeling?
To answer Bill Edwards, I hope to drain and clean out the lake this summer. That is why I bought the GMC C8500 dump truck February of this year. Grand kids are disappointed as it will interfere with their fishing. I will need to drain the lake and clean it out in July or August. Nige, really good to hear from you. I try to be safe in everything that I do. You, of all people know that using and working around heavy equipment can be hazardous at best. I try to work with safety as job #1. Tags, The arm has finally healed after being in four cast. It is a little crooked and it lacks the strength that it once had. It is difficult to start the weed eater, but a crooked arm can be an asset when wrenching in hard to get to and tight places. Today I used the ag tractor to bury 1500 ft of dog fence wire. I mounted the wire spool on the scraper box, I took all of the teeth out of the scraper box except one. It was slow going but worked really well.
Glad you're still at it and haven't lost your sense of humor. This was one of the first threads I read when I joined here and always look forward to what project you're doing next, happy to see you posting again!
Hey DMiller, what kind of truck is that in your avatar? looks like it might be a Chevy or a GMC.
85 GMC 7000. Bought running cab and chassis with intent to snatch the cab off for Brother In Law's deteriorating dump truck. Truck was too nice to part out so bought a bed and hoist set up, built it up as a grain truck.
The reason that I asked, I bought a 1999 GMC C 8500 with a Cat engine and a ten speed. I am having trouble grinding gears while up shifting up or down shifting. I am reading that in order to shift properly you have to double clutch or float the gears without using the clutch between shifts as the transmission is not fully synchronized. Could be that I need to practice my double clutch technique as I am still grinding gears. Do you know anything about that kind of shifting problem? No problem at all going from neutral to first or reverse at a stand still.
One more glad to hear you and machines are doing well.
Same here on hearing all is good. Likely has a 8Spd in it NL? That one is easier shifted without the clutch at all once moving. Takes a little practice but s pretty easy to float shift these. I only used a clutch on some of the Old Detroit powered rigs, especially twin stick. Should use the clutch to start rolling and as come to stop. My little monster is a 366 Gas on a Allison AT540. Really had no initial intent to take it where its at now!!
Is it a 10 speed or a 5&2? I have single axle Topkick with a 366 and 5&2. Supposed to be synchromesh but I have to double clutch to go into 3rd gear which is no big deal. Every other gear is synchromesh. If it's a 10 speed is probably better without the clutch and if you use the clutch don't push it to the floor cause it likely has a trans. brake. I have a 9 speed in my dump truck and it's a learning curve shifting without the clutch and way lower RPM's, especially starting off. Easier once you got some speed.
Is it an 8LL? I belive some will call that a 10 speed or is it something else? I have an 8LL in my ten wheeler and NEVER touch the clutch unless starting or stopping, it "floats" in and out of gear seamlessly as long as your travel speed and rpms are in a happy place to allow shifting. Used to drive a Pete 330 with a Cummings and an 8LL and it was tricky to shift at times, sounds like yours may be the same way. Practice, practice, practice.....you'll get it
It has a Eaton Fuller ten speed. Starting with the button down, shift first through fifth gear, then pull the button up and shift first through fifth again to get to tenth gear. It does have the trans brake if the clutch is pushed to the floor.
Glad to see that you are still around kshansen. Retirement must suit you well. Hope your health is also serving you well. My pacer/ defib battery is about depleted. Got to have a new unit installed, that will be my fifth unit since 1999. I am completely dependent on the unit as my heart is incapable of generating a beat on its own. Sounds bad but it is just routine for me. You be careful up there in New York old friend.
As Dave noted earlier, you do not take the engine to full rpm in the lower gears, becomes a mind/muscle memory as to when to shift, if run it out to governor becomes hard to get out of gear as truck runs up on the gear train and harder still to catch that next gear as are pretty close ranged. 4th/5th widen out some. My 'Little machine' dressed out
OK, with the added knowledge from you guys, I'll give it another try. I think it is going to take some coordination and practice.
Nice rig Miller. I'll post pictures of mine when I get it out of the equipment shed next time. Originally it was a state road salt spreader and it has the plow ready hardware attached. It appears to have been well maintained and cared for. I bought it in Benton Ill and drove it at 65 MPH 200 miles back to Tennessee. It was a smooth ride. Governed at about 68 MPH. Cat power plant starts right up and is a smooth runner with no blow by, no smoke or leaks. 50% on rear tires with two new steer tires.
I find you have to shift fairly quickly at about 1200 RPM in the low range but can shift at around 15-1600 RPM in the high range. I've heard it can vary some depending on the engine. I bought the truck at an auction and looked on the net how to shift to drive it out to my land. Biggest problem I had at first was revving too high when trying to shift. In high range when you're moving if you miss a shift you can usually let off and get it into the next gear. My L9000 was a former plow truck too but just a dump now.
Hey NL, this was my fiasco in process!!
Nice job on the truck Miller. I am finding that parts for Top kicks and Kodiacs are getting scarce. I have been looking for a R side headlight basket, but no luck on a used yet. A new one is more than $80.
Boone, how are you doing. Hope you and your Dad and brother are still involved in the farm and the old Dresser. Good to hear from you, it's been awhile.
Nidge, or anyone else who might have an answer. I posted up thread that my son bought a 955K. He blew a high pressure hydraulic hose that runs from the reservoir to the hydraulic pump. We don't have a manual for a 955K. The serial # is 85J536. Does anyone have the part number for that hose? Cat wants about $500.00 and Off road wants just North of 100.00
I just need to make sure that we are comparing the same hose. I blew the same hose on my 951C and the replacement from Cat was $103.00 two years ago. Thompson Cat makes them to order. They offered to reuse my old ends at a discounted price but I chose new ends to keep from making two trips.
Welder Dave or maybe D Miller. My son broke a piece off of the corner of his 955K bucket. I have not laid eyes on it but he tells me that the broken piece is about the size of two hands and involves one tooth. He borrowed my metal detector and found the piece. Is there a specific procedure or anything that needs to be done or considered before attempting to weld that corner back on.
Dave should agree, get it REALLY Clean, inspect for transitional cracking away from the broken area, look it over for distress marks that may indicate the steel has become too Thin in spots. Photo would be Handy. Nige had some interesting into on Welding Edge Extensions to complete a pass out to the edge, simple little add on to make a clean weld up.
Nitelite, good to hear from you. Glad you and Dmiller are keeping these old gals running. We've still go the farm and the Dresser. Dad and brother are doing good and blessed with good health. In fact we used the 175 Saturday to install a new security light on a pole around the house. We still get the 175C out every so often to keep the fluids circulated. We've lost some big trees and we've used it to pile them. Don't do much with it, but it's got a good place to sleep and when we do need it, it's sure handy. Had so much rain this winter that our road to the barn nearly blew out at our tile. It was more than the old 20" tile could carry. Lost a lot of our gravel down the stream. Got to put in some new tile. I guess you saw where I bought a new toy to help with that project. Will have to wait till dryer weather for that fun. Take care!
Thanks Miller, I will tell my son to watch this thread to glean the fine points and instructions before having it welded. I know that you have done a fair amount of bucket rebuilding on old Alyce.
Boone, as you know, the pain of having to rebuild old iron disappears with time. Time also provides justification for buying the old iron. We have proven that the effort was worth the risk. Now we have the old iron, in good condition, the net savings on the dirt work, and the future use of the machine, whatever that might be. I am sure that the purchase of old iron does not work out for everyone, especially those who can't stand grease under the fingernails.
Sorry I missed this. This is the illustration for the pump lines for 85J00536. Are you talking about the hose Item #8.?
Me too, a little too late! Sorry Nitelite.
Not too late but rather just in time. I am thinking it is hose # 8. Anybody got a part # for that hose? I have a number for the hose in my 951C parts book but it is probably a different # for the 955 K.
Item #8 is a 5S-9226 Hose As.
Thanks Nige, Kshansen and D Miller. Just what we needed.
It sounds like it could be a corner guard tooth mount that bolts on but it could be a weld on tooth adaptor. Not sure what year Cat came out with the corner guard system that wraps around the corner of the bucket. It could be a standard tooth adaptor too on a 955K. Like DMiller said clean it up and inspect it. Maybe just the bolt(s) broke or the bolt(s) came out if it bolts on? If it welds on you'd want to clean the bucket really well too and preheat everything to about 300 deg's. and peen each weld to relieve stress. A picture would be really beneficial. If it's a tooth adaptor, bolt on or weld on it may be easiest to just get a new one. If the cutting edge and tooth adaptor is ripped out will require some more extensive work to properly repair. I think DMiller may be referring to run off strips for the weld that Nige has mentioned but need to see what we're dealing with first. Glad to see you back on the forum. Are you going to make some dueling track loader video's when it's fixed?
Thanks for picking your brain Dave. I will ask my son to post pictures. He says it is indeed broke, not just bolted on. As far as the dueling track loaders, I am not much of a gladiator. I broke my bucket once and had to replace it. That was costly. I was lucky, I found a 951C being parted out not 50 miles from me. A cat loader with no bucket is REALLY just a toy.
My son dropped off the hydraulic hose at a hydraulic shop. They called and quoted more than $500.00 to make up the hose, pictured as #8 in Nidge and Kshansen's diagram up thread. He told them that their price was out of line and that he would pick up the old hose. He did not need to go inside, they left the hose on the ground outside for him to pick up. He said that when he picked up the hose he looked up and saw a Thompson Caterpillar Sign, just across the parking lot. He walked the hose over there and Thompson Cat Quoted that they would make up the hose, using the old ends for $150.00 tax in, and out the door including new connection O rings. Done deal!
Here’s my bet. The hose shop were going to make the replacement hose using crimped (as opposed to reusable) ends, and quoted it that way. Cat reusable fittings only work with Cat hose AFAIK, and today even a lot of Cat dealers only use crimped ends. Right there IMHO is the difference between $150 & $500.
Some places are ridiculous with their hose prices especially on larger size hoses. I had heard that with all the extra steps and labour required for Cat reusable fittings it didn't save anything over crimp fittings like Cat used to claim in their marketing. May be why for the most part they don't do reusable fittings anymore.
Co-Op has off road diesel at $1.40 gal. I had about twenty gal in the transfer tank in the back of the F250 and decided to take advantage of the price and fill the transfer tank for work this spring. I got the fuel and started the twenty five mile drive back home. I got about three miles and the old 7.3 diesel engine quit, just like you had cut the switch off. No amount of roadside bleeding of the fuel lines produced fuel when cracking injector lines. After a long while, and now low batteries, I called a rollback and had it towed. The $250.00 tow bill was covered by my insurance. The truck spent the night in the shop, charging both batteries. I went out this morning and bled the fuel lines and it fired right up. Process of elimination points to the fuel shut off solenoid not working properly. I think that the, "normally closed" solenoid must stop working when the engine heats up. As it is working now, it ts hard to prove that it is malfunctioning, but for the thirty bucks for a replacement, and a three bolt job, I see a new solenoid as a real good investment.
Nige and Dave, I think that you are right on with the reason for the high cost of the hose. I replaced the same hose on my 951C last year. It was $103.00 at Thompson Cat, with new ends, but was quoted a little less to re use my old ends, and that would have been plus tax. Thanks for the help guys!
I would also look at the cam sensor, they were known as the weak link it the 7.3's and simple to replace. I'd keep one handy and a 10mm wrench in case it happens again.
Thanks for the reply Peej. I bought the F250 new in 1989. It is thirty three years old and the 7.3 is not a power stroke, but is a naturally aspirated engine. It now has 77,000 miles on it. Always garage kept and looks/drives like new. Not sure, but I doubt that it has a cam sensor. Once the starter does its job, the only electrical component involved in the running of that engine is the fuel cut off solenoid. That solenoid was shipped today and due to arrive on May 6.
Old Powerstroke Manual pump!! Roosa Master and simple.
Thanks for the help guys! CAT came through. Brakes are adjusted, new hose is on... Next is bucket repair and bucket cylinder rebuilt. Any suggestions on the bucket
It looks like you have the piece that broke out. I would grind bevels on the piece and the bucket at fit it back together. You might want to tack in place first and then grind from the other side. Depends how it fits. Then preheat it to about 400 deg's. and weld it with 7018 or maybe 8018(C3). Most 8018 is 8018C3 (1% nickel for extra toughness). You could use specialty high tensile electrodes but I think an XX18 would be fine. Tack it in place and weld the bottom first. Then grind into the bottom weld from the top for 100% penetration. You could do the top first but grinding on the bottom would be harder. If you took the next tooth over off you could clamp a piece of flat bar or channel iron to hold the piece flat for tacking it place. Grind/clean out the side and fill it with weld for 100% penetration. You could put a reinforcing plate on the outside of the bucket going up the side (leave it up about 3/8" from the bottom to get a good weld on the piece you're welding back in). You could possibly put a piece on the inside too if the tooth is far enough away to have space. Peen the welds while hot between passes with a dull chipping hammer. Cat or aftermarket may have a new tooth adaptor to bolt on.
Judging appearance had been cracked long before came out, just by lack of shine in that break area. Follow WDs instructions will get the bucket back. Maybe invest in some AR plate and reinforce across the weld and between the teeth so less apt to flex while working so can get you by for awhile. Just a opinion, if is that thin as noted by the adaptor chunk the old bucket may be due for a refloor/cutting edge and tools lip as well side edges. Good winter project.
Well, actually being able to turn that 955K without begging and praying that it will turn will be a treat. The hose saga also came out well. The broke bucket corner is not as bad as it could have been. In general, that is one tough, good old machine.
The best repair would be to cut out the entire cutting edge and weld a new one in but that's a lot more work. You might be able to also add a bolt on cutting edge or even weld another edge on the bottom of the existing one after the corner is repaired. The only thing is you'd have to get new teeth adaptors and weld them on.
I am sure that Jim will contact a local welder to assess the damage. He will also consider the opinions expressed here on HEF. Sounds like there are several options. Keeping in mind that this is a farm machine used for occasional maintenance work on a five acre tract, I doubt that it will see a lot of abuse once the new house is completed and grade work is done.
You are right about the crack Miller, Jim said there was rust inside the broken place that made it apparent that there was a previous crack..
On a farm machine that isn't getting heavily hammered on a regular basis I'd just grind it all clean, bevel it all and build up plenty of weld thickness with 7018. Put a bit of reinforcement at the corner where it needs to be strong, there's not much room with the tooth being there but any metal you add will help. A half decent welder will do a good enough job that it should never break there again, it's not a challenging job.
Thanks for the reply Bill. I think the biggest challenge will be to locate a local welder that has mobile self contained welding service.
I came down with Fournier's Gangrene due to the medication, Jardiance, that was prescribed for my heart disease and diabetes. Turns out that the Chloracne that I got in the service, due to Agent Orange exposure in 1967 created the perfect storm for the Gangrene. It is hard to believe that 54 years later it came around again to bite me in the butt. I was in the VA hospital, unconscious, from July 1st, until July 31st. The doctor cut out forty one pounds of rotten flesh from my scrotum to three inches above my navel. It is expected that it will take a year or more for me to get over it. My entire lower abdomen has been reconstructed by plastic surgery. I was given a 4.7% chance to survive the surgery, a 12% chance to make it sixty days, and a 17% chance to make it 180 days. The 180 days will be up on December 3rd. I have big future plans.
All well wishes to you and your family in this trying times.
I had the 1999 GMC Top Kick dump truck with the ten speed transmission. That transmission requires double clutching. I can't do that much clutching anymore so I sold it three weeks after getting out of the hospital. I replaced it with a very nice Sterling with cold air and a Allison automatic transmission, and a Cat engine. The truck has 84,000 miles on it. I needed a reason to get out of bed, and the truck needed better brakes. I replaced the two rear automatic brake adjusters and adjusted the front brakes. Now she will stop on a dime. There was also a notable, " catch", or hard spot, in the steering when coming off of center. I was guessing a tight kingpin and I greased every fitting from front to rear. That problem turned out to be stripped splines in the Pittman arm where it fits to the steering box shaft. The shaft splines were in good shape. This truck has two steering boxes. The left one is the primary while the right one is a slave, and works opposite the primary, much like the way you swing your arms when you walk. The right arm was the culprit. With my sore condition, changing the right side Pittman arm was a chore indeed. I had a puller to separate the pittman from the shaft., no big deal. but swinging a ten pound sledge to get the tie rod loose put me back to bed. I had a ball joint separator on a air hammer, but it ruins the rubber on the tie rod end. All that the truck needs now is a tail light lense and a turn signal flasher, and she will be ready to work. When the new pittman arrived, it was no trouble to install.
Very nasty, good luck with the recovery
Both of the Cats, the D4-E and the 951-C are in good shape and ready to go to work. I'll just need to keep the batteries tended until spring. the dozer is a straight shift and may be a hand full, but I think I should be able to handle it by spring. The loader should be no problem. I still have plans to pull the plug on that lake and clean it out come spring. I want to build a boat dock while it is down and re stock with fish when it comes back to the full level. The grand kids will enjoy it fore years to come.
Wishing you the best but take it easy for awhile. Let your body recover. I know people who have went back to work without letting much less severe surgeries heal and then have problems later on because of it. You don't want to end up back in the hospital. The work can wait till you're feeling better.
I have the restored 1948 Ford F-i that I enjoy showing at the car shows, but I have always wanted a 1955 Chevy. So, when I got out of the hospital I started searching. I wanted a rotisserie resto mod, and I found just what I was looking for. It is immaculate. PS, 4 wheel PB, Cold air, all new tinted windows, perfect sound system, Australian leather interior, power seats, electric wipers, California bumpers, fresh blue and grey paint. Dakota digital dash, tilt steering column, ford 9" differential, dropped spindles, Foose 18' wheels, and you can eat off of the underside. She has a corvette LS-1 fuel injected engine with a 4L70-E overdrive transmission. It is a best of show winner. I am in the process of having a trailer hitch custom made for it and will have a aluminum trailer custom made to pull two handicap scooters that will come in handy at the car shows. I expect that December 3rd will fly by like a fart in a whirlwind.
I was climbing down from the dump truck yesterday. I had the grab bar with my right hand and the door lever in my left hand and when I stepped backward, the door lever broke. Seemed like I fell for five minutes. I hit the pavement with my left elbow first, then my sore ass, smashing my colostomy bag in the process. That is what I call a bad day at the office. In December my pacemaker defibrillator battery will be depleted and I will get a new unit with later technology. They are also considering a reversal the colostomy in January, after the wounds heal, if it can in fact be done at all. I should be good to go in the spring. Life is good guys, enjoy every minute of it.
Good idea Welder Dave, but I did spend a full month after coming home watching re run westerns on the TV. That got old quick. I kind of think the only way to regain some of what has been lost is to get busy with something meaningful. Physical therapy sucks, when the same energy could be spent on an interesting project. It is not like I have to really work anymore. The VA takes very good care of me now days.
Ouch! The broken door lever
My awsome, new to me,
Under hood
Warning, these pictures are graphic ! If your doctor reccomends Jardiance for your heart disease and diabetes, remember what you see here, and refuse the medication. The side effect of the medication is Fournier's Gangrene. I was not expected to survive this emergency surgery. This is what I now have to heal from. That gloved hand is squeesing my bladder to empty it. The other picture is of skin graft doner sites on my thighs. This may well end my heavy equipment operating days, but I am fighting it with everything that I have.We will see in the spring! Do your research as Jardiance is identified under several other names.
Hats off to you Nitelite for forging ahead in the face of adversity...……..you're on in a 1000...…..all the best moving forward!
Best wishes for your continued recovery from this side of the Pond James.
WOW! At least back at it Can only hope continued recovery is as good
You are quite an amazingly positive and strong willed fella Nitelite. I'm sorry you and your family had to go through this, but it doesn't seem like you've missed a beat and I couldn't be happier to see that you had posted today. I know a lot of "men" that would call it a day if they got a splinter....keep on keeping on!
Wishing you all the best. Please take time to rest when needed and let your body heal. We're all looking forward to your adventures in the spring.
Wishing you all the best! With your drive and determination and positive attitude I have no doubts you’ll be back to 100% in no time!
Yeah mate, best of luck. Pony
That Pittman arm, in my condition, was a task.
Can be a task without physical impairments, Kudos Nitelite!!
Best wishes during your recovery. I can only imagine what the last few months have been like. Glad to see you're keeping yourself busy and active with what you love. Beautiful car, that'll be a fun one to show off.
Nitelite, I've been a bit scarce at times here myself but just saw your posts. Wish I was close by so I could offer you physical help on this project, Guess all I can offer at this time is emotional help. Keep up the good fight Ken in NY!
Be a fun car to drive.
Not sure I would last long if I got behind the wheel of that! Maybe being a bit past 70 would mean I have some more brains than when I was 17 but that skinny pedal to the right would be very tempting!
That looks like a Ford part number or am I thinking wrong?
Yes in the Ford handle, it is ford and Mid Ten Ford Trucks had it in stock. They also knew the part number without looking it up. Seems that the same handle was used on some F150 and 250s. The 55 is really fun to drive. I learned, just once, that she will go sideways with you when she hits 2nd gear. That little pedal on the right will quickly teach you to respect her.
The 55 was built three years ago and was stolen at its first car show. The couple who built it planned to do some traveling in it. They caught the thieves but not before the car incurred some damage. The police kept the car as evidence for a year and a half. The trial for the thieves was postponed several times and dragged on so long that the people became disgusted with the whole affair. When they finally got the car home they had the damage fixed. They didn't want the car any longer. they didn't want to see it, to talk about it, or even own it any more. They signed it over to a friend to sell for them. They bought the car in Pennsylvania for $44,000 and paid $800.00 to ship it to Tennessee. They furnished me with the record of what the first owner had spent for restoration. When they got it to Tennessee, they tore it down to the last bolt and nut. They flipped the frame upside down and started a restoration project of their own and spared no expense. Therefore it is called a rotisserie resto mod. (restored and modified). They furnished me the records and receipts to prove that they had spent $144,000.00 on the car's second restoration after purchasing it. It features every convenience to be found in a late model modern vehicle today. Don't get me wrong, I paid a tidy sum for the car, but knowing how much money has been spent on the car, and how much money has been lost on the car, I feel like I stole it the second time. But, that is not how my wife sees it! She thought that it was my last request!
Nitelite, Hope you heal up fast. Glad you’re enjoying your cool toys! And keep the pics coming.
That’s bad hardship Nitelight. Get well soon mate
hello there i too have a Cat 951c that the track tension needs to be removed and get the seals replaced, can this be done with out taking off the front idler? i think it can be by removing the steel brace in front of the grease zerk that applies tension to the tracks is this correct?
I just finished this thread Nitelite, got to say thank you for writing your tale down for all of us to enjoy. Its a great legacy that will probably be read for generations! Hats off to you!
I think the idler has to come off and then the rod can be pulled out to access the seals. You don't want to TOUCH anything around the spring area other that letting the grease pressure off. There should some info in the archives on here or someone may post the procedure. Don't do anything until are 100% sure you know the proper procedure. That spring can kill you!
Just got out of the VA hospital yesterday evening. About a month to heal and I should be good to go. I have spent more than forty days in the hospital since last July. All equipment ready to roll and I have 200 gallons of diesel. Come on spring!
maybe you can start a new thread , if your tracks are well worn you can usually safely change seals without removing that brace. Bob
Well, I am still around. Some down time in the hospital as my pacemaker wires wore through my chest and then got infected. I got a new generac whole house generator installed and used the loader quite a bit to cut down a bank and level the spot for the propane tank and generator. The old 951-c still runs and operates like a dream. All of the work that I did on her has really paid off. I have plans to move a lot of dirt using the loader and my Sterling dump truck come August when the ground should be really dry. The old D4E also has a job to do in the long range plan around the place.
I got caught up in collecting tri five chevroletts. I have aquired the 1955 Belair, a 1957 Belair two door hard top, and a 1957 Nomad. All are shoe quality. i put in a BendPack 9000 pound lift and really enjoy fooling around with them. Always need to do something to one of them. Also have the 1948 F-1 pickup to fool with, it is also show quality. I have decided to sell the F-1 and it is on the market.
Pics. of the toys please. Glad you're out of the hospital and have plans to do stuff. Being in the hospital sucks.
Here are some pictures
Don't know why multiple post appeared
And a few more
My Bendpack lift and workshop.
My backhoe had similar sludge on the underside, and it took a lot of work to clean it up. Especially around the front hubs. It is like concrete.
Those are some nice looking Chevies sir.
Sweet Machines. I learned to road drive in Grandmother's 55 Belair 235 straight six three on the tree, NO P/S, NO P/B, and Definite NO A/C.
Good afternoon Nitelite. I was wondering if they’re were any updates on this thread?
Dad (Nitelite) passed away last month
Sorry to hear Prayers for him from here
Thank you Sir
Our sympathies to your family.....your dad dealt with may hardships, yet displayed grit & determination to accomplish that which he set out to do. We have been missing his posts for quite a while.
Thank you Metalman He lived every day for 28,023 days. He was my best friend, hero and Dad. He spoke fondly of this group and the discussions. Thank you all Jim
He will be very missed. I remember he posted about his medical conditions about a few years ago. Hope you find some comfort that he is not suffering anymore and is at peace.
@Shimmy1 started a thread for @Nitelite in the Gone but Not Forgotten section of the forum.
So sorry to hear of your family's loss, Jim. I always enjoyed his posts. He always seemed upbeat and seemed to have been capable of tackling anything. I would've loved to have met him. Prayers for your family.
Dad didn't get around to cleaning out the lake before his health got worse. My hope is we will get it cleaned out this summer.
Thanks for the update. Very sorry for your loss