Hi i have a older track loader cat 951c. I just purchased it and dont know much of anything about it as it was extremely cheap at 2k. Everything seems to be in good condition with zero leaks. I ran it a few days taking down trees and grading a small patch of land without hickup. A fuel line cracked a pinhole and as i cannot find a new line anywhere i fixed the line with a fuel rated compression fitting. after repairing the line i ran it another day every once in awhile i would get a little bog down but went away quickly and all was good but it progressively got worse. I also changed the fuel filter since who knows how long that was theyre and it can be a issue with fuel. So i primed the system with the plunger and air bleed open until fuel with no bubbles or air were left. Started right up and ran proper with a nice smooth idle, after five minutes it started to bog under load to the point where your running full throttle and its at like 800rpm or something instead of revved up like it should. pop it in neutral rpms come back up slowly but its ruff and vibrates bad. Not noticing any smoke out of stack at all thats abnormal. So i shut it down and go crack air bleed and i hear it gurgling back down and no fuel out the bleed so i rebleed with plunger till fuel flows nicely go back start it up runs smooth like it should. after 2 to 5 minutes same thing. go bleed start up runs great. Im assuming if the injector pump had issues i would have air issues constantly even on startup? Where should i start looking for air leaks. It has the old style primer pump up top with the airbleed on top of filter housing and the glass or plastic fuel water seperator bowl under the filter setup. I notice if i push on the water bowl it will leak a bit and i also notice the plunger has some wobble when pulled out. It takes quite a lot of pumping to get fuel flowing out the purge everytime. I also noticed with removing the fuel line from connection at prime filter setup its a line pushed into a nut with a oring of sorts that seals it and i can physically shift the line with a finger at that joint but theyres no leaks out of it so i assume the oring is ok? I assume with it running so good and then crapping out until i purge air again that im getting air into the system somewhere. Anyone have any ideas? / Anyone know any good mobile cat mechanics in the northern illinois area of winnebago county? Thanks alot for any help as ive never owned a large diesel and always used a old farmall H with a loader.
sorry its a gray metal cup under the fuel filter setup not a glass or plastic im not sure what it is im think some kind of water seperater although maybe not as i loosed the nut under it and just diesel fuel poured out so i tightened that back up super good and i ran the engine for a few minutes. when i went and cracked the fuel bleed fuel started coming out and that never happened before so maybe i had a air leak at that cup Its time to go see cat and see if i can get a new one and gasket or oring that goes above it i think. Still any input anyone has is still greatly appreciated
I’m a reader here. I believe Nige recommended this thread before HeavyEquipmentForums I think I would closely review anything disturbed while fixing the fuel line. From what I have read the supply from the fuel tank cap all the way forward has many places to allow air in and it is harder to find them than a positive pressure leak. The water separator leaking when touched maybe a clue. If you are mechanically inclined these gentlemen can help you sort it out.
Thanks for the reply Im thinking the seperator bowl was my issue. To wet to play today but in the morning if dry enough ill give it work and see if it didnt fix it. I gave it a short run after tightening bowl back up and it seemed to run proper and had fuel leaking out of air bleed anytime i cracked it so i think i got it but we shall see
If u have the 3pc set up for the filter assy.. filter head, filter, bowl.. w/ the long screw bolt holding it all together.?? U do know that the top oring HAS TO go UP IN THE FILTER HEAD.. NOT ON THE FILTER.?? It “looks like” it goes there but it doesn’t.. it WILL choke off the fuel. Another good thing to check is.. run it with a loosened fuel tank cap.. just to eliminate a clogged cap vent.. Good luck
Thanks, I did run it with the cap off originally just to check that as well. my setup looks like a plunger on left the filter head to the right with a large hand twistable bleed jet looking bolt then a silver bowl under the filter assembly that has a metalrod bent around under it with a twist up nut on the bottom in between the silver u shape bent rod that holds the little metal cup up like the older tractors that had the little clear cup under the tank. It takes a standard cat 1r-0750 filter so it comes with oring built into top of filter so im not sure what you mean by the oring thing good sir.
Ok, I get it.. wrong set-up..
Eric, are these your primary & secondary filter setups.? There are lots of options depending on Serial number so this is only a best guess.
You got it pal, Thats my exact setup. I wish i knew how to decifer a year on this beast. At least then i would know what to tell them when im looking for parts. So the left image diagram is a secondary fuel filter? That would explain the diesel flowing out of it when i opened it. Do those diagrams give any indications of the years or any indicators of what i have exactly here when im looking for parts?
What's the machine Serial Number.? With that you should be able to access all service & parts information.
No, that’s the primary fuel filter. A washable metal screen designed to trap “tree branches, children, & small dogs” before they can get to the secondary (spin-on) filter.
You need to shut off the fuel at the valve on the bottom of the tank when you work on this screen. Take the bowl off and clean out the screen . This screen is used to keep larger trash out of the transfer pump so it needs to be serviced regularly . It does have a gasket for the bowl to seat on. If you give the serial number to a Cat dealer they can give you whatever info you might need. Bad Bob
So update , That did not fix it it basically runs for 2 minutes at half idle then dies and doesnt want to restart unless it sits for quite a while or i prime it which leads me to believe its running out of fuel so i pulled the metal primary bowl filter and sure enough it was clogged solid with mud basically. Noone is open for parts today so i cleaned it thouroughly with gas and a air nozzle from the inside out and air flows through it nicely now. I will put that back on prime it and give it a shot. i have good flow from the tank to theyre for sure after not turning tank off first i found that out heh. I will get the serial number i see it on the plate on the right side. Do you think if the main bowl filter couldnt pass enough fuel that could be why im having this issue? Can you see the gasket like i could go get a flat face oring from the hardware store to see if it works? Do you by chance see the gasket is a oring or flat paper gasket or?
Put the bowl back on and turn the fuel back on see if it leaks. It is a flat gasket. After seeing the screen you wonder if it might be the problem? Bad Bob
Leaks like a siv , made a oring gasket it leaks as well, now im on to making a flat paper style gasket see if that works. Im assuming that is a issue with fuel volume I didnt mean if it might be the problem i meant if I cannot pass enough fuel that would be the air issue in the purge probably not sucking in air just not filling fully with fuel and cannot keep up. Heres to hoping the flat gasket works to seal it
Here is the Parts list for the illustration of the primary filter I posted above. By the name #4 seems to be a replaceable element, not a washable screen.
Thanks a million Nige and everyone else who commented to help. It is very much appreciated, UPDATE I got it running great again. The clogged primary sediment bowl filter was the culprit then the bowl clamp screw broke so i had to fashion one of those up real quick but all is good now. No leaks Rpms respond appropriatly and runs great for hour plus no problem. Sometimes its the smallest things that give us the most grief. Thanks again everyone and i will use those part numbers. Anyone know how to decifer the year by the serial number or just call cat in the morning and maybe they can? My serial number is 86j2427 Does that mean its a 1986?
That series tractor was made between 1971 & 1981. Bad Bob
I know you have never seen one but it is a screen. Bad Bob
Yeah theyre just wasnt anyone open this weekend and i needed to get it functional so i soaked it in cleaner and blew the screen out from the inside out with air and carb cleaner until it was clean like new. I highly doubt cat has anything instock for something this old anyway, Ill be tinkled pink if they even have the air filter assembly, the inner filter is a horrible design with a flange with 6 bolts built into it that looks like i have to remove the hood to get swapped out damn near.. Thanks for year window
Nige seems confused with Cat description of a screen, He no drought never seen one. That screen is made to be cleaned just more often than yours was. If you price one you will be happy it cleaned up. As for the air filter Cat used to sell an adaptor that bolted in like the inner filter . It is a short tube that the newer style slide on inner filter fit on. Cat uses serial numbers not year to identify machines and hunt parts. Bad Bob
Thanks for the info ill have to check into that filter adapter
I would never read too much into the terminology Cat uses. I think it all depends on the day of the week or who is given the job to name things in manuals. But yes that is what I would call a wash-out screen and not a throw-a-way "filter"! But if the machine has been abused to the point it is plugged solid and killing the engine I would both get a new filter/screen and a couple gaskets and as soon as possible think about pulling the fuel tank and give it a good cleaning. Otherwise I would expect the problem to keep coming back! PS I would also if it has not been mentioned before that the fuel cap be taken apart and cleaned as there are two foam filters in that which can cause problems if they get plugged. Cat seems to have a problem with part numbers of these and show them as quantity of two when in fact there are two different foam filters in the cap. I will see if I can find the correct numbers. ********* Took some digging but found what I was thinking about. Many places Cat calls for two of a 4B5949 element (just a ring of foam filter). But once in a while you can find where they do show one of the 4B5949 and one of the 4B1663. Forget which one is which but one is a larger diameter than the other and fits the cap good. I know all the screw on fuel caps I ever came across used the two different foam filters! If anyone has better access to SIS than I do, maybe they could see if there is any information on this?
Thank you, All good information for sure, I intend on getting a new filter for that sediment bowl as soon as they open tommarro and ill definitally be cleaning the tank tomm once i have the new filter as i can see quite a bit of goop on the walls of the tank in theyre, My gas cap actually just sits down and then the top has a locker arm you spin then fold over a padlock connector to hold it in place. The spinning arm just moves 3 tabs inside the cap to the right to lock it on
You might want to price that screen before you order it and if yours don't have holes in it should be fine. I would run the tractor a while and see how fast the bowl fills up. On older machines that bowl should be checked regular. Bad Bob
Ok well mine really looked brand new once cleaned up and flowed as well so maybe we wont heh, still need inner and out airfilter the outer has a huge hole in the paper and the inner is black im sure those will sting but somethings just have to be done and i got the thing one owner for 2k so i cant complain about putting in a few bucks anyway as its in really good shape actually It has just sat for a year with little use and i didnt dump the fuel cause it was a half tank and didnt smell bad, apparently it gummed up a bit. Am i supposed to run this beast full throttle when im working or low as possible to be functional. Sorry for the million questions, figure if i dont ask i wont know. I hear people saying it should be full throttle but that just seems crazy to me i only throttle up and much as i need for the work im doing.
my serial is 86J2427
So then your cap looks like this one?; If so there should be a couple screws on the under side that hold the filter on it. Part number for the filter is 350-7735 I'm guessing that someone has updated the original cap to that style as this is what shows for your s/n:
Not sure why I'm not seeing it right off but Cat should have an adapter that you install in place of the six bolt filter that will accept the newer "radial sealed" air filter. It's still going to be a bitch to remove the old filter and install the adapter but at least you only have to do it once. After that it's a simple slide out the old and slide in the new. If my brain starts working and I can find the info I'll pass it on.
Were these what you are looking for Ken.? Attached the parts list for the air filter assembly covering all machines from 86J1992-2597. 86J2427 would need the 6I-3828 Adapter Kit listed on the top line of the table in SEHS9421. Also needed will be the new-style radial seal air filter elements that do not come with the kit . The Part Numbers are 6I-2499 for the primary (outer) element and 6I-2500 for the secondary (inner) element.
Yep! that one named SEHS9421. gives the information I was trying to find. I bet it has been at least 25 years since I last converted any of those filters to the radial seal style.
Yep thats the cap
Thanks ok one last question if you dont mind. The dipstick that comes up underneath the seat must be from the final drive? Is that the same thing as the steering system. it goes down into the very rear box of the loader. I found the trans fill under the footboards by pedals. But the rear dipstick under the seat has nothing on the dipstick I assume thats my steering and final drive? any chance you know what fluid goes in theyre
I don't have access to service or maintenance manuals on SIS. If this is something you plan on keeping and using for some time getting at least the operation and maintenance manual would be a very good idea. https://www.servicemanualpro.com/?page=Products&searchbox=86J2427 If you read the paragraph at the bottom you can download the Operation and Maintenance Manual or any of the manuals that are listed as being on CD, just have to "contact them" after order is complete.
That's the steering clutches and differential oil same oil as transmission ,30 drive train oil. Final drives are checked at plugs on back of tractor just inside of tracks. Bad Bob
Of course the grease zerts track tensioners dont work. Unless im supposed todo something other then put grease in the zert. Is theyre possibly a bolt i have to release or anything to add tension to the tracks with the zerts that you know of? and filling the final drives i just add it thru the plugs on the back inside the track on the frame theyre?
I see people with broken track tensioners on these just hook a chain to the front pull with a tractor to achieve desired tension and put steel blocks in between the spring and the front arm and problem fixed. Ill give that a shot first because im assuming the tensioners are stuck or junk as i see someone already did the steel block style on the left side now that i have the covers off.
That's what I did on our 951B, when the grease was pouring out faster than I could pump it in - wrapped a chain around the idler wheel, hooked it onto the bucket, and crowded it in until it was the correct tension. I used a piece of angle iron to pack it, it'll never fall off!
Sounds like a plan do you by chance know what is considered proper tension? how tight should a track look at rest
I'm not qualified to answer that, as I am somewhat new to tracked machines (done a lot of work on wheeled ag tractors), but I would say don't over-tighten them, allowing a very slight sag depending on the terrain being worked.