Hello all! I have been researching on this forum for quite some time and have found a wealth of information that has helped tremendously, but I need some more knowledge. I have just joined so I can hopefully find some answers. I have recently rescued a 955L from the thought of being scrapped. I brought the old gal home and I am trying to give her some love to get some more life out of her. She has been setting for a few years after the previous owner let her overheat with a clogged radiator. He cracked the head, so they pulled it down on the spot and changed the head. He said he spent $2000 on the head and $1000 on the water pump. They fired it up and it was still dumping water in the oil and combustion gas in the antifreeze. That was enough to make him mad, so they loaded up the machine, hauled it home, and put it out to pasture. After perusing craigslist for something completely unrelated, I found her and had to bring her home. I made the two hour drive a few times to drop the oil and get her running long enough to load on the lowboy. That was an adventure in itself, as the steering booster was frozen up on one side, so I had a one sided adventure getting her on the detachable. The hour meter surprised me at 3800 hours. Must be broken. Wait a minute, it works! Definitely bringing it home! Tracks in decent shape, rollers a little worn, but would be OK for what I need. The fuel was rotten. It was also slimy. Oh boy.... I had it running for about 5 minutes before it plugged the filters. Nasty, nasty stuff. I changed filters and got it to prime up and run some more. Had to keep the cap off the radiator because of all the combustion gas, but it ran enough to move and load. Got her home and started pulling her apart. I found that the input plungers on the booster had rust from condensation. Got the rust off the booster input plunger and made sure the steering clutches worked. It was a big relief to feel power from both sides! This means that it was time to attack the engine. Got the loader in the air and the sheetmetal off. I finally got to test the capacity of the pit in the farm shop. That sure beats the heck out of working in a space I can almost lodge myself into. I decided to pull the oil pan off after dropping the belly plates. I am expecting to find cracked sleeves from the overheat. I drop the oil and the pan and see water dripping past the number one and two pistons from the bottom. I pumped up the radiator to 20lbs and water was dripping, so off comes the head. Water is setting on 1, 2, and 3 pistons. What the heck is this? Gasket is great, but I look up and see water around the precombustion chambers on 3 of 4 cylinders. The chambers were loose! They came out with channel locks! I am already into the engine, so I pulled the sleeves and I am resealing everything with new rings and rod bearings. So this gets to problem number one- the bosses inside the head are pitted, and I am not sure how to get them to seal against the bottom of the chambers. The "gaskets" are steel spacers. By the way, I pulled the fuel tank and am getting it dipped. Twice... Problem number two is the track tensioner. The tracks were tight when I first saw the machine. Now one side is limp and the other side relaxed a bit. The limp side has adjuster problems, so I pulled off the guards and found my spring was broke right at the end. There is not even a full revolution of what broke off. I will replace it eventually. Maybe. The problem is with the vent holes. There are two vent holes that are oozing grease. I tightened up both the valve and the fill. It seemed to slow it down but will not pump tight. Is this bad valves? Sorry for the novel, but I would appreciate any advice!!
I forgot to mention it is a '75 model 85J. Open rops with a 4-n-1 with an extra counterweight.
You will need to send that head out, maybe Chapin Head in Chapin IL could work it where the pre-chambers will seal, they have pulled a few miracles for those garages I have worked in the past. As to the rails adjusters, get the units apart, sound like you have corrosion products there messing with the reliefs and get that rebound spring replaced unless you really want to roll a track back on in the field. http://www.chapincylinderhead.com/ Fuel, the slime you mentioned is algae, blow out all the lines, drain anything that had fuel in it and flush, flush, flush, you will have a few filter load ups even at this but will be ok.
I have been looking around at aftermarket springs. I know it is a bit of an ordeal to change the spring itself. Not worth the gamble of having that blow up on me. I will put a call in to the local-ish dealer to see what the damage will be. Is there any way to pull the valve out of the adjuster without major disassembly? I am going to do a repaint next spring, but I have some work needing done with it in the meantime. I was thinking about spotfacing the head on the mill and adding a copper sealing washer under the chamber. Or just adding a hydraulic sealant to the cleaned threads. I took the fuel level dipstick into the best diesel shop around and they said that the fuel was way past the point of additive, as the film on everything was inpenatrable. I took the tank to the radiator shop and they needed to cut a hole in the top of the tank to try and clean it out. We will see how it looks in a few days. The only thing I could get to flush through the lines and remove anything was carb cleaner.
On the algae matter, The only ALMOST KINDA SORTA NEARLY for sure way to get rid of the algae is to remove tank (or at least have good access to it) steam it, also wash and steam and blow steel lines and replace all the rubber lines you can, whatever you do don't dump algae killer or use bio-fuel lol Algae is a bitch there is no good way around it, we even fight it on farm machines that set for as little as 3months especially after using bio-fuel, they put some additive or something in it that kills and breaks it up......as long as it's alive it'll stick to the tank and not cause much problems but as soon as it's dead and starts flaking off......look out! Just trying to save you hundreds of dollars of fuel filters cuz I been there done that Pj
THERE IS some algicide biocide stuff to put in the fuel. I'd say go for it. It is not expensive.... but once it starts growin it is a PITA. Wags
I tried all sorts of additives and biocides and nothing cut it. I left it set for a fee weeks hoping that it would at least loosen up. Not a chance. The lines are soaking full of carb cleaner, and the tank will be good as new except for the welded shut access hole. Most of the misery confined itself to the tank, so I am hoping to not have to mess with the pump.
Try a fuel additive as Startron to fill then blow flush the fuel lines, almost any alcohol Based fuel system additive will work. As to the head, if the pre-chamber cup seats were so bad they leaked, I would definitely leave it to a pro at a head repair shop before I destroyed a engine trying to prove I could fix it on the cheap. Sounds like that option came close to fruition already. As to the adjustment leaks, I am awaiting the Cat masters here to pipe in, seems they are awfully quiet right now.
I once bought a diesel powered life boat that had sat for years,had never had any algae until then.Holy crapp that stuff sucks!Anyway I was at the marina changing filters,for about the tenth time,there was a Cat service man,working on a new Tiara,he took a liking to the old life boat and we talked about the algae.He went to his truck and came back with a little brown bottle with a eye dropper end.He said how much in the tank I said fifteen gallons,he put in THREE drops after that I did have to change the filters a few more times,but even after storing for quite a while no more algae problems.I did ask what the drops were and all he would say is "PURE CYINIDE" whatever it was, it killed that crapp!!!!
Still sleeping. It is Sunday y'know ........... The track tension grease fill/drain valves have a conical face at the bottom end of them. You'll have to pull the valves right out and check the condition of both the end of the valve and the seat in the track tensioner cylinder. You might have to do a bit of remedial work on the machined faces in the tensioner cylinder. If the bottom of the valves are bad you have the option of playing around with them or replacement. Don't mess with track tensioners unless you really have a good idea of what you're doing. There have been a couple of threads about 951's where the owners have replaced broken springs. If you don't replace the spring you WILL regret it at some point down the road IMHO. See photo at the bottom of this page of tctractors thread shwoing the replacement process. I'm sure Tony himself will be along in a while with ideas regarding the engine, but for my money don't try to bodge it. It will come back and bite you in the rear end if you do. Proper engineering fixes are around for all the problems you describe. How about posting some photos of the damage..?
Thanks, Nige, for the visual! I am not a stranger to hydraulic help. It was in a completely unrelated field but I've used them quite a bit in the field I used to work in. I looked at a few of those pics in that post and I am very thankful I have this machine inside on concrete over a pit. I could not imagine rebuilding one in the middle of a "pond"! I can deal with the cold. I'm looking at springs. Cat wants $1500 for just the spring. I think that the $200 aftermarket one wins. Now to see if I can find someone to change it. I can always torch the old spring and dissasemble myself. The book says a 15 ton press will do it as long as there is enough stroke. Not sure about that...
I've now got 40 gallons of brush pile starter. The fuel was so bad I gave up. I cried a little when I emptied that much out of the tank.
Sometimes a little wasted is better than wasting time and other resources. I know how costly it is but you will be better off in the long run.
Nobody said you had to buy a Cat spring.......and unfortunately there is no Cat Classic Part (cheaper price range) available to replace it. Cutting the coils of the old one with oxy-acetylene will get it off without drama, installing the new one will be a little more difficult. According to the machine Service Manual the cylinder required for disassembly & assembly of the recoil spring assembly is a 9S-8900 which is rated at 70 tons - a bit more than the 15-tons you mention. It doesn't necessarily mean you need all the 70 tons, but that's what the manual calls for.
If you do not have the proper tooling for the recoil spring as has been mentioned, do NOT try it yourself. If it all goes wrong wrong the least that will happen is somebody gets hurt. It will kill somebody real fast. As for your head problem, find a good engine shop. I did an old D-8 years ago with the same problem. He made a shaft that screwed into the pre ccombustion threads and used his valve grinder an a stone to lightly clean up the face of the seal surface. The seal rings are different thickness so that you can index them for the glow plugs anyhow so if the glow plugs don`t line upm change to a different thickness seal ring. Have fun and be very careful.
I went ahead and ordered a selection of the sealing rings. That is a good idea on the valve grinder. I may see what I can come up with. On the track spring, if I can get the vent to stop leaking, I am going to try and limp it by until I repaint next year. Nige, can I pull the tensioner valve out around that shield? The shield looks like its welded on.
PM me your e-mail address & your exact Serial Number and I'll send you the Service Manual showing how to get the tensioner out of the track frame and how to strip/rebuild it. That will include changing the spring. The plate is held on with 4 big bolts that also hold the recoil mechanism to the tensioner cylinder. Don't go loosening those bolts unless you have first relieved all the pressure in the tensioner.
The Safety Guard over the Valves is usualy bolted in place with 2 bolts, these can be removed without any drama after the valves are undone some.
Tctractors, I will look a little closer at it then. It looked like it was welded on the recoil rod flange. I pm'd you, Nige. Maybe you have something better than what I have. I have a service manual for it, but I was shorted the recoil spring section. It jumps from step one to step four on spring removal. Nothung else besides step one and four. Not much help... I got the manual on CD from Jensales and I printed it out and made a binder. I have an OEM parts manual.
Some of the guards are afixed to the rod needing all 4 bolts to be removed, so its the same thing only 2 more bolts to undo, between the cannon section thats the bit with the valves in, and the rod end plate is a square section seal (O Ring) let into the cannon end so try not to damage it, its unlightly to need replacing but things need to part at this section to remove the valves, (unless you cut off the guard?) the recoil spring set up can be a handfull on 951C's as the end mount is a fare enclosure around the spring, the spring also has another spring and tube inside it to increase the weight some, I pressed some recoils free on Friday and have posted up a pic in Shop Talk, the cylinder head is a simple job to sort, the chamber fixing detail is well detailed in the service books and only the hard steel rings will form a seating needed. tctractors
I looked close and saw that the shield is indeed welded. I would consider cutting the guard off if it is for sure the valves. Is there any other cause of grease leaking at the vents? If I have to pull it apart, I might as well keep going and replace the spring. I would rather do that later this winter. I need to haul around 150 yards of dirt before the ground freezes. Rather do it with this than a backhoe- especially since I have not got to play with it yet to check for leaks and such I must have a different manual. I cannot find anything about reconditioning the combuation cup seats. Is there another manual I am missing?
Got your PM and I'm working on the track tensioner/recoil spring section. Let me see what I can chase down about the fix for the pre-combustion chambers. That might take a little longer. Your Service Manual may be the one where the machine and engine come as 2 separate manuals. [Edit] Two e-mails of bedtime reading have just gone in your direction ............
Here is the grease coming out of both vents. I am going to tear into it this evening to see what I can find. Here is the broken spring.
This is with the sheet metal off before I brought it into the shop.
Ah-ha ........... there should be bolts in those holes. I think what has happened is that the seal on the piston in the tensioner cylinder has failed and the 2 places in your photo are the path of least resistance for the grease to get out. If you look at the Parts drawings for the 5K-5955 Idler Group (Part 2 of 2) you will see that items 8 & 9 are listed as 4M-7021 & 4M-7022 Seal. These two are what seal the tensioner cylinder to the 8K-5590 Rod that is shown on Part 1 of the same group. That explains why your plate is welded on - it's supposed to fix in place with those same bolts. What's the betting when you pull it all apart you'll find the threads in the end of the rod are screwed and that's why there are no bolts there..? Running the machine in that condition could be extremely dangerous IMHO.
I went home at lunch to do a little work on it. I saw your post right after I pulled it apart. I think I found the culprit. I was able to slide the sleeve into the adjuster chamber enough to take a look. You can see where the grease was migrating up between the flanges. I pulled the 2-piece seal out and it was not in the best shape. I am going to sneak a new one in there to see if that will fix it. I will fully rebuild the adjuster when I change out the spring. The vent valve mating surfaces look good. I think leaking valves are ruled out...
I will check and see if the holes are threaded that you are talking about. They appear to line up with the vent holes on the back side. The four bolts that hold the flanges together are still in great shape.
My Parts Book shows 10 bolts in that joint. Maybe different Serial Number range but worth checking either way. I wouldn't want that lot going twang if I was anywhere near it.
Poor old gal looks almost as rough as my Allis when first brought it home, almost. Similar MP bucket.
My bucket is a Ulrich, out of business for a few decades.
This one does not have the removable rod between the idler and the tensioner. I've seen pics of it in the parts book. I am wondering if that's what you have in mind. Speaking of rough projects, here are some pics of an old Allis Model D grader my brother and I reworked. It makes this CAT look cherry...
Well... $4.33 later, it appears to be holding! Tightened up the tracks to about 1-3/4" of sag. I need to run it a bit and see if it holds, so I better get back to the engine. Got the new rings installed tonight. Hopefully I will have the pistons installed tomorrow.
10 was a typo - I should have said 8. You appear to have got the newer style of rod connection between the front idler rod and the track adjuster cylinder. On the old-style the rod bolted to the front of the flange with 4 setscrews into threaded holes, then the complete assembly bolted to the track tensioner cylinder with 4 bolts/nuts. The newer version simply has the 4 bolts/nuts connecting the idler rod assembly to the track tensioner cylinder. The 4 holes for the setscrews will still be there but not used. Panic over ...........
I'm glad that it was not missing something! That could have been messy... I got the fuel tank back today. They had to cut 2 holes in the top and one in the bottom to clean around all the baffles. I was not excited to have weld patches in the tank, but at least it's clean. They said it was one of the worst they have seen for a while. The track was still tight this morning, so at least it did not bleed down overnight. I won't know on the condition of the rest of the seals until I put it to work a bit. I am jumping the gun a bit, but I have been daydreaming about painting this old gal. New yellow or old? I personally like the new color better...
They could have ground up the repair welds a bit better couldn't they..? IMHO they could anyway.
They bug the heck out of me, too... I was a welder for a few years before I turned machinist. I thought about dressing it up, but i am going to try to let it go. I might have to add some polyester surface enhancement medium to the top of the tank to feel better about it
"Polyester surface enhancement medium"!!! I like it
After seeing that Allis grader, I can't wait to see the 955 when you finish with it. Looking forward to keeping up with your progress.
Thanks boon! I may be slowing up a bit on it while the temp drops close to the single digits next week. I have young kids, so I usually head out to the shop after we put them to bed. I am very thankful to have a shop and a pit to work on it with, but heat is a little lacking...
I have made a little progress, but I am going to wait a bit until the weather is good for sealants, etc. before I put the head on the block. Here are some before and after pictures of the threads in the block for the pre-chambers. I ended up making a visit to the machine shop that I used to work for. I raided their cabinet and found a 1-7/16" counterbore with a removable pilot. I went home and turned down a new pilot that was a slip fit into the minor diameter of the threaded hole. I took my time, but I used a 1/2" drill very slowly to "machine" the contact surface, and then I polished them a little with emery cloth on the end of the counterbore. I probably removed about 1/32" of material. I am going to add some high-temp thread sealant to the chambers for good measure.
That looks better ...........!! Just a thought. Make sure that whatever sealant you use doesn't harden like concrete and prevent you from getting the chambers out the next time you need to.
It does set up like concrete, but if I need to pull it apart, the TDS on the compound said that it will loosen over 400F. If I need, I could spot heat the chamber a little.
So if it loosens at over 400F then the heat of combustion in the engine is going to destroy it anyway. Might be better to leave it out, could potentially cause more problems that it solves.
It is supposed to still hold, but will start to soften enough to loosen with force. The chambers shouldn't get that hot since they are directly water cooled, should they?
Loctite used to make a gasket eliminator liquid you could paint on and worked like thread sealant, can't remember the type but it was red. Was soft enough to allow removal and still seal tight, might check with local auto supply, I would use that or 'Copper Coat' liquid. We used and I still use Copper Coat on all steel head gaskets as used on the old flatheads, works on exhaust tin gaskets too.
Kb9 I'm digging those oliver tractors. Got a super 55 myself. Owned numerous ones over the years even a Massey 98.
Dickjr, did you take a look at this post?
I've slowed down quite a bit while it has been cold, but I am working on getting a few things ready for when I get the motivation to brave the cold or wait for a warm spurt. My steering oil is not looking great. I want to change the fluid and filter. Any locally sourceable oil that meets spec (or kinda close)? I think it is 30wt TO-4.
Any major brand (Shell, Mobil, Texaco, Conoco, etc) will do an SAE30 TO-4.
I've got a good news update! I had to take advantage of the few days of good weather and I got the engine back together. I fired it up with a little priming and a snort and it runs great. I will need to put it through its paces a bit, but as of right now, all fluids remain in their respective locations. It the rain allows, I might run it around a bit tomorrow to look for some leaks and get the rings set. I have a feeling it may get pressure washed and put back in the shop for a good wire wheelin' and a coat of Rustoleum.
I finally took her on a maiden voyage! I could not wait any longer to get it out of the shop and see how she moved. It was a little above freezing today, but the ground was still firm enough to take it around the shop. Gave it a tiny snort and she fired right off. Planked it across the concrete to the gravel and I smiled a little when the turbo started to spool up. Everything looks to be holding up. I only had enough time to putter around for about 10 minutes, but I was grinning from ear to ear as I watched the paint burn off the new muffler The tracks were a little loose on the side with the repaired adjuster, so they were pumped up a bit and ran around some more and they stayed where they should. Not sure if I am in the clear on the tensioner... It is supposed to stay above freezing for the weekend, so there is going to be some washing and cleaning after working on seating the rings some more.
I got to take it out and finally move some dirt today! Nothing serious for dirt work, but I wanted to see if that tensioner would hold. Well... the seal kit is ordered. I was running it for about 15 minutes and all of a sudden, I lost a cylinder and it started hammering like crazy. It started blowing a lot of white smoke and first thing that came to mind as a dropped valve seat and poked a hole in the piston. I stopped it and looked over the motor a bit since I have not put the sheet metal on yet. I looked at the injectors and found that one was loose and fuel was coming up around the nut. I never pulled the injection valves out of the chambers, so I assumed they were tight... The loose injector caused fuel to leak around the body and dump fuel into the chamber.I tightened it up and fired it off. It seemed to run a little better, but it was not right. I looked closer, and I saw smoke coming up around the injector! Thinking the worst, I took a look. The glow plug was loose! I started it back up again and the smoke cleaned up and the hammer stopped! I piddled for a little more until the track went loose, so back to the shop to have a wash down, fix the adjuster, tighten up a few lines, and start prepping for paint.
Awesome progress. Wish i had the patience and know how to resurrect a machine or truck like this. Hope you can get it painted and running 100% soon
Kb9tci, Thanks for posting the progress on your machine. I am waiting on the spacer/gaskets to change the pre chamber O-rings on my 951C, 3304 engine. It is leaking antifreeze from the pre combustion chambers. Not a bad leak the coolant is standing on the head and running down the block. When the engine warms up a little the leak stops. In the mornings when the engine is cool and the sun comes up and warms the cold metal it starts to leak. I guess the easy way out for a while would be just park on the shady side of the shop. It looks like the exhaust manifold might be in the way of removing #2 chamber. If the rusty manifold bolts give me trouble and I have to go very far in, I am considering going ahead and doing an in frame overhaul with new cylinders, pistons and rod bearings and main bearings. The old engine has some blow by and some smoke, but it really does run good. I understand that it had an in frame in the 1990s. If you will, post what you do as far as prep to paint the old girl. Good luck and happy New Year.
I would suggest a couple things. Get some good penetrating spray and soak those exhaust manifold nuts, should be nuts not bolts, down ever day. PB Blaster seems to work fairly good and is generally available. Better than WD40 in my experience. If you have an acetylene torch heat the nuts good before trying to move them. 3304 if like the 3306 engine manifolds should be slotted which allows you to remove manifold with just loosening the fasteners. When the studs do break, sorry but very likely, don't panic not the end of the world. If you have access to a wire feed welder what has worked well for me is to position a nut over the broken stud and weld it to the nut. Concentrate the heat on the stud using a higher than normal setting. Works better if you have a extra heavy nut, say a 3/8-16 nut that uses a 5/8 wrench. Let it cool a while and then turn it out. If it starts to turn soak with the penetrating oil and work back and forth a little at a time. Good Luck.
The exhaust manifold on your engine has 7 vertical slots and 1 horizontal slot at the fan end, so after undoing the nuts a few turns it will be possible to lift and tilt the manifold away from the engine buy lifting the rear up first, dont forget to turn off the fuel line and cap off fuel tops on pump and injectors, then take the chance to check the valve lash. tctractors
I will admit, I cheated on my chambers. The chambers were loose so they came out with a channel locks. I was able to use a pipe wrench with the valve cover off to tighten them. Not the right tool for the job, but I worked with the tools I had... There was enough room for me, if I had the chamber socket, it would have been a breeze. This has been a fun adventure so far, but I am really looking forward to putting her to work. She is washed down and getting ready to go in the shop for the tensioner repair and some whire wheeling. Does someone have decal sets for these machines, or do I have to piece one together from CAT? This may sound a little odd, but my family has always came up with a nickname for every piece of equipment (motorized). I need to come up with a name for "her".
wait a little while and see what kind of temperament it has,then you will know if its to be a man or woman name
I still have not come up with an appropriate name yet. I think Outasite is right. I will wait until i work the machine a bit. It is not being very ladylike right now. I got it back in the shop and pulled the track adjuster apart... It started off with a little head scratching. My brother pulled the tensioner covers back off for me so I could pull the grease adjuster out. I found a seal kit off of ebay for $12, so I ordered two kits (just in case I need one for the other side). I had the machine back over the pit, so I did not want to try the bar between the tracks and the sprocket to load the spring. I do not think it would have worked anyway, since the adjuster was COMPLETELY in and did not even move when being pumped up. I could have probably stuck a log between the tracks and the sprocket and not budged the spring! :beatsme I ended up taking a 20 ton bottle jack sideways and pushed the idler forward as far as I could. I got the tracks as tight as possible and then wedged steel stock between the grease cylinder flange and the spring flange. I relieved the jack, and the tracks remained tight, so I then uprighted the jack and pushed up on the tracks until the spring moved back about 1/8". The nut on the spring was free, but I was not able to run it up the threads due to dirt and rust on the threads, so I made a thread chaser. I looked at dies, and there was NO way I was going to invest in a die that expensive to clean the threads! I ended up purchasing a 1 1/4-7 G8 nut and cut slots half way thru each flat all on one face of the nut with a cutoff wheel to resemble a castle nut. I have done this before with smaller diameter threads, so I upscaled it to real size threads. I soaked the threaded rod in penetrating oil and started the nut on the shaft with the castle side first. I would run it in until it filled the slots with crud, and then back it up a bit and soak it down and go again until the nut was all the way across the threads. I took off the cut nut and installed the original and tightened it up. I let the jack pressure off, and the spring stayed where it should. I loosened the grease tensioner flange and the spring retainer stops, and the spring came right out without any problem. I was a wee bit nervous pulling the spring out, but it went pretty smoothly. I did run into a bit of disappointment when I found a chunk of the spring broken off and wedged between the coil assembly and track frame. This confirms that I am indeed installing a new spring... That spring was a little heavy, but I was able to heave it out by myself. I looked the spring up at CAT, and they only want $1500 for the spring, so I looked around a bit and ended up on ebay again. I have one on its way for $270 shipped to my door! Now to have it changed out...
That thread chaser is a good idea. The way I do it is to put two blades in the hacksaw thru the nut and cut slots from the inside. Your way sounds like less work to make!
kb9tci When you need parts for your Cat try Off Road Equipment. http://www.offroadeq.com/ You can call them at 1 888 379 7895. Their prices are ridiculously cheap. They have genuine Cat new salvage parts for pennies on the dollar. Just call them and price a part, something like that spring or tension seal kit. Jeff seems to be the really knowledgeable contact person to deal on older Cats there. If it were not for them, I could not afford parts for my machines.
Thanks, Nitelite! I'll have to check them out. I am going to eventually need a couple track rollers and a few lift cylinders rebuilt. Do you know if they have decals? Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
I don't know about the decals, call Jeff and ask about decals. I have never needed a part for my 951C or my D4E that they could not supply quickly. Overnight if you need it and are willing to pay freight charges. I did buy a new carrier roller for the 951, as can be seen posted earlier in this thread, the price was $114.00. The lift cylinder seal kits for the 951 were $22.00 each and the tilt cylinder seal kits were $19.00 each. Build those cylinders yourself. I posted earlier on this thread how I did it. If you have trouble with them I, or others on this forum can can walk you through the process.
I ended up reading your whole thread last night, Nitelite! That was scary about the auto-defib! I still have the 3304 fresh in my mind if you have any questions. Not sure about the slobbering problem. Your injectors cold be weeping and dumping a little fuel into the chamber while it is parked. Keep an eye out for rising oil levels. Those injector valve cartridges are cheap and easy to change. I was kinda nervous on the cylinders. did you have any issue getting them back into the bore? I've rebuilt multistage forklift cylinders and have had to be ridiculously careful on getting the piston back into the cylinder. Those are crazy cheap prices on the kits! If that is all they are, I'd consider rebuilding every one before I paint!
kb9tci, I think you will find the Cat cylinders are pretty easy to get back in the bore. A couple tips. The seal ring can be a little hard to get over the piston, sometimes it helps to heat it in hot water and gently work it over the piston. Try some then rotate about 1/4 turn and try again. It will look very loose, no problem. Take a thin piece of sheet metal, aluminum flashing will work. The wrap this around the piston and tighten down with a large hose clamp or two. Let it set and go have some coffee and doughnuts. Or put in a freezer or outside this time of year. This should have it shrunk back to size. Clean chamfer at top of cylinder and oil it up and it should slide in nice.
Well. Crap. Brother pulled off the tensioner cover for the other side. He text me this picture jut a bit ago. Looks like I should have ordered two springs. This one looks quite scary. I think it will be torched right where it is at. Grr. :guns I am starting to get to that point of a sore wallet. It really has not been all that horrible, but I'm starting to get frustrated. I have looked at the undercarriage a bit closer, and the track rollers are definitely shot. I have taken Nitelite's advice and called Jeff. I am hoping he can save the day. I do not want to spend $3200 in 12 rollers from CAT. :cussing Anyone had any luck changing shells on these assemblies? I am not afraid of a shop press...
Actually, you will have more trouble getting the rod out of the cylinder than getting it back in. Before you start, safely support your lift arms in a horizontal position and then remove the bucket end of the cylinder rods from the bucket. I backed out the end cap bolts on the cylinders half way so the piston could extend a little farther. Next start the engine and extend the lift cylinders as far out as they will go. Then finish removing the end caps. At that point of rod extension you should be able to remove the rods easily. You do not need to remove the entire cylinder, leave the barrel on the machine. Take the rod around to your hitch pin and put the yoke into the hitch and put the pin through it. That will secure the rod from turning so that you can remove the big nut. Block up under the rod at the nut end, (look at my pictures) I tried the correct size socket but just bent my pull bar. SO I applied just enough heat on the nut to melt any Loctite that might be in the threads. Used a 24 inch pipe wrench with a piece of 8 foot 2" galvanized water pipe for a cheater bar as pictured on the post. I could not push the cheater bar down with all of my weight so I pushed it down with the tractor front end loader. Once you get that nut off it is all down hill from there. At full dump, secure your bucked lowered with the teeth in the ground to build the tilt cylinders. As the hydraulic hoses from the pump tee off to supply right and left cylinders, you only need to remove the hydraulic hoses from one cylinder only to break suction. Let the fluid drain from the hoses. if it is clean, catch it and reuse it. After removing the big nut, the piston will slip off if it is a flush fit. If it does not slip off easily, then it is a tapered fit and will require a small amount of heat and a blow from a ballpeen. Before you get started take a close look at the pictures. I think you have the same cylinders. No problems whatsoever replacing the rod back in the cylinder, just slips in with a little lube. Your seal kits should be less than $100 for all four. You can replace the seals in the yoke at the bucket pins that you are removing at the same time for a small e charge for those seals, 2 for each pin
Jeff should be able to save your day. Let us know how you come out. When I get ready to pull my pre chambers and maybe the head, or go the in frame overhaul route, I might need to lean on your experience a bit. I don't have a pit and my machine and it won't fit inside my shop, unless I remove the ROPS. I am thinking about pulling it up on two crossties to get a little ground clearance if I need to pull the oil pan. Will the crossties be prone to rolling over with the weight of the machine on them. Would it be better to use two or maybe four crossties and pull across them? Just trying to think ahead.
Jeff is trying to figure something out for me. He quoted me a set of 12 for a little shy of $2500 to my door. This is better than CAT's $3200. Still a chunk to shell out for a hobby machine... He is putting together some prices for the seal kits. He can ship the spring if I order the rollers for an additional $205. Great price for the spring. Spring shipped by itself is $262. A little cheaper than the first one I ordered. For the heck of it, I called B&W Dozer parts, since they are only a few towns away. They part these machines out a bit, but I really have not taken advantage of them. They can sell me a used spring for $775 They said they would charge me 2 hours each to load the springs in the press if I have them cleaned and ready to go. Double Jeff said that people used to rebuild the track rollers all the time, but it is not commonplace anymore, due to rising labor costs out-costing the assembly. My labor is free(ish). Anybody do this anymore??
I have changed my tune after another phone call to Jeff! Next time I am in Tennessee, I think I need to buy Nitelite a steak!:notworthy I gave Jeff some track roller shell numbers out of my book, and he can get me dual flange shells for $57 ea, single flange shells for $28 ea, and a seal kit for every cylinder for $18-20 a cylinder. Tensioner spring will run me around $175! Add about $85 in freight and a few seals and I am still doing a dance!:drinkup Jeff even gave me some good pointers on changing shells! We will finish up the order Monday and get the parts coming.
I like ribeye, medium well! Good luck with the repairs old friend and tell Jeff that Petway Farms sent you his way. As I said earlier, I could not afford to keep my machines going if it were not for those people supplying decent parts prices and this forum supplying me with free "how to" knowledge.
Kb9tci, you know, with recent scrap metal bringing about $230.00 per ton, save your take off parts and sell them at the scrap yard. That should more than cover the cost of your freight. I just sold $1500.00 worth of old track pads, track hardware, old rollers and some tractor parts. There was also some electric motors, copper and aluminum in the load that demanded a higher price. I spent it all on new parts for my equipment. This new hobby of mine keeps me hopping now days, always something to do, I don't know how I ever found time to work!
Very close to what has been said on a old motorcycle list I'm also on. "If you have time to hold down a full time job, you need more hobbies!"
My problem is I still have quite a few years to go with my full time job. And I already have enough hobbies and projects lined up to last me until I'm pushing daisies. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Just wrapped up my order with Jeff... $176 track spring compared to $1500 OEM 8 Double flange track roller shells for $57 ea 4 Single flange track roller shells for $28 ea 24 track roller seal groups for $106 2 rubber hood mounts for $6 ea compared to $25 OEM Total of $852 plus $212.29 shipping. A grand down the hole, but I really feel that I should not complain! :woohoo In diesel measurement, that only cost 4 tankfuls... :eek2
So, now you are going to rebuild all of your lower rollers and replace the spring for $500.00 less than the cost of the OEM spring. I told you that Jeff could save your day. Its too bad that the freight cost is that expensive, but as you have already pointed out, the cost of diesel is directly related to the cost of freight. I am about 180 miles from Off Road but the freight charge is still cheaper than the drive. I did drive there to pick up the carrier roller and track pad replacement hardware because the weight of the parts drove the cost of the freight far beyond the cost of the drive. Take plenty of pictures of the spring replacement procedure. Sooner or later I may have to do the same job. I have not yet removed the rock guards that cover the springs on my 951C in order to inspect the springs. I know that they are a weak point of the machine. Recent off road price for diesel at the local CO-OP is $3.25 gal. I am thinking of buying enough diesel fuel to fill up two farm tractors, the dozer and the loader. I can hold another 105 gallons in the transfer tank in the back of my pick up truck. About 250 gallons of fuel, more than $800.00 in total = just about what your parts cost. Local on the road at the pump #2 diesel has been running about $3.69 to $3.75. If I do buy the fuel the price will probably drop even lower, sort of like playing the stock market Good luck with your repairs kb9tci.
Had a little time to tear into the left track adjuster and re-seal it. Seals were definitely rotten. This makes me wonder about all the other seals, throughout the machine.
Sorry. I uploaded those with my phone. Hera are the pics of the track adjuster piston: Before After
Update on the left tensioner: Disclaimer: I would not recommend this procedure for everyone! When I removed the left tensioner spring assembly, I found chunks of the spring broken off the bottom, as shown in an earlier post. I did not want to see this come apart disastrously in the press, so to the torch it went... Let me reiterate, I was quite careful with the torch! I have quite a few empty oxy/acetylene tanks under my belt. I loaded the spring in the vice and commenced to start cutting coils. I burned thru each coil except for about 1/8" of material. After each partial cut, I then let the remainder cherry and let it pull apart to relax the coil. This would keep the assembly from popping each time I cut a coil. I cut across each one until the assembly relaxed. I think that there were 3 coils left. I took everything apart and gave it a good cleaning. I had to paint it too for some odd reason I am going to cut the second tensioner spring as it sets on the machine. I'm not risking pulling it out in the condition it is in...
Looks good so far. I can clearly understand why you would elect to cut the other spring in place. How are you going to compress the new spring? Do you have a plan or are you going to have someone else compress the spring?
I got the right spring cut tonight. Now just to get the new ones loaded. I have a localish shop that does them quite a bit. I will most likely go with them. A second option is a local weld shop that has a monster press.
I stopped by the weld shop tonight on the way home. Not quite enough clearance so I am going to pull the other spring apart and take both of them to the dozer shop next week. Should have all my shells and other spring in on Tuesday so I am hoping to pull at least half the track rollers out this weekend. Weather is going through a warm spurt making a soppy mess outside, so a good weekend to work in the shop. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Had an hour or so to tinker in the shop this morning, so I pulled the other spring assembly out. That adjuster was STUCK. The piston was froze in the cylinder, and the cylinder was froze in the cavity. I did not get the heat out, but I did grab the BFH and some real pry bars.
I always assemble recoils on site as its the safest way for me, the tube is to limit travel of the recoil, the lugs that are on the cannon often need a bit of a weld up on the worn spots, the track frame also often needs a bit of a weld job on the guide area, also make sure the dowl holes are good in the frame top, you can press out the grease cylinder from the cannon via the rod, when you re-assemble the recoil always use a good thick washer before the end nut on the rod and grease the treads etc, as you have to release the tension on the rod after things are re-bolted back in the frame, when you release the rod tension remove the nut and remove the thick washer, then refit the nut and lock off with the jamb nut, it takes 5 coils to be cut with the gas to release the spring load if the old spring is not fit to re-use, I just hack straight through them they make a thud but nothing to worry about, the rod nut should not be heated up as its "iffy" its always best to use a new nut, the ton loading on the assembled spring held by the nut is around the 8 to 10 ton area.
Tc, I don't have a portable press for compressing the spring, so I am going to have to take it in. Was there a different method I missed? The lugs and track frame do not have hardly any wear, surprisingly. I have one dowel I bent a little prying it loose. I have both pistons rebuilt. I just need to hone the right bore a bit. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
I got another hour to work on the machine tonight. Started taking track roller bolts out. Those bolts have not been out in a day or two! I am quite thankful that I have this thing over a pit. Those bolts had to be barred out the whole way. Got 12 out, 12 loose, and 24 yet untouched. My hat is off to people that work on these things in the field! I would have to lose 80 pounds before I thought about monkeying around under the belly of the beast. I'm going to let the kroil soak in for a bit... Found a track frame bolt needing replaced. The belly of the beast.
Finally got my shipment in today. I had a few words with the carrier, but they finally delivered. They have had the two skids of parts loitering in their terminal all week and have finally decided to deliver them today. I am just glad to see these in my hands after impatiently waiting. :spaz Now to put the springs in and pull the track rollers out... I am going to make a trip to the local-ish dozer shop tomorrow and let them put the springs together. I would like to get the front idlers semi-secured before I block it up to pull the rollers.
Shiny new parts............mmmmmmmmmm. Good thinking about getting the recoil mechanisms/idlers all rebuilt before pulling the track rollers off. Do you have the shop manual to disassemble/reassemble the rollers ..?
Nige, I do have the service manual, and to say it is lacking in the description of the procedure is an understatement. The parts man Nitelite directed me towards gave me a few pointers. I do not know how much oil to add, though. I hear it is 30 wt. Same as the clutches? Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Springs are assembled! Not sure if I am going to install them in 15°F weather today, but at least they are loaded. I ended up going to the local-ish shop this morning, and they charged me a whopping $75 for loading both springs! CAT wanted $250 a pop! They had quite the vintage press at the dozer shop, but it sure did the trick, and they did both while I waited! When I initially called this place, they were going to charge me more, but I think that they were counting unloading the old springs and cleaning the parts. Now, I am going to have to paint the mismatched spring OLD yellow instead of new. Dang OCD...
Recoil springs on my old Allis are encased in a housing, bathed in oil. I need to get a look at least on the left one as that rail is always loading up trying to roll off.
PM me with your e-mail as a reminder and let me see what I can dig up about track roller D&A. There may be more available than what your Service Manual shows.
kb9tci, I am thinking you have had them pressed to the correct "To Fit in frame lenght" as you do have to undo the nut to remove the packing washer as the rod is loose when the recoil is bolted in place??? anything less that a near full nut of threads could be a danger thing when you come to unload the rod?? around 10 tons of spring force will soon sort a nut on a few turns, it might be just a bad picture but I sort of expected to see a good 1/2" of threads clear past the nut, something sorta' dont look right ??? BE CAREFULL, you might need to do a bit of packing and re- spacing with what I am looking at, I dont do many recoils now but I have just done 3 in 2 months, none of mine looked like the nut up job you have, it looks a tad tricky??? work safe tctractors
Tc, I am sure it does look deceiving. The spring is to length, but the nut is not against the back plate. They added a spacer to ensure that the nut was on the "good threads". The nut is situated so the shaft has a few rounds of threads showing past the nut, and there is a spacer between the nut and the back plate. The end washer and bolt is installed simply so I do not lose them. When I install the recoil assembly, I am going to tighten the tracks to relieve pressure on the nut and back it off by hand.
O.K, usualy the packing washer in front of the nut is around the 1/2" or less thick ?? but I know sometimes its hard to get a good look in a picture at something thats needs a detail pic' all of its own, I always measure the distance in the track frame and press 1/4"or so more on the recoil to get the fit lenght, but I have to say about the nut coming past the end of the thread on the rod with tension still loading the nut, avoid it as things happen fast. get em fitted tctractors p.s. to re-fit the recoil, you throw the lump in the frame and bolt in place the 2 guides that hold things down, then you can undo the end nut without even bolting up the cylinder to the idler endplate, the recoil will need a bit of a barring job to locate the nut end boss into place, you can pre fill the grease cylinder an amout as its pulled forward to locate on the endplate with the 4 bolts.
Got another hour put into it tonight. One spring is installed and got all the track rollers off one side. I cheated a little bit and dropped the bucket down and lifted the front end up in the air after I pulled all the bolts out of the track rollers. Had to tap on a few of them but I got them all out and sat it back down. I was pleased with the old gal on firing up tonight. Thermometer reads 38°F and it rolled right over with a tiny snort. Now to get the other side out before the temperature bottoms out again... Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Had one more evening to work on the crawler before it turned nasty again. My brother was able to loosen all the other rollers for me (only sacrificing one breaker bar ). We pulled all the right rollers out and I got the tensioner in the frame. Now to rebuild the rollers in the warmth! The bolt heads are about rubbed off on the roller shell flanges , so it might be a little interesting!
I see what you used for a "press" to get the lock ring out. Nice out of the box thinking ........ Did the collar come off easily or did you have to clean the shaft..?
Aftermarket vs. original Cat, I'm curious if you noticed a big difference in the spacing between the spring coils? There was talk about it in a 951 thread because the aftermarket spring looked to be very tight.
I am afraid the picture may be deceiving! I cheated even more getting that ring out of the groove and it worked quite well, I might add! :naughty I soaked it down in penetrating oil for a few minutes, and then I walked the ring right around and pulled it out without even tapping on the collar. For removing the collar, I had the roller assembly in the vise (not a tiny vise). I used a 24" crescent wrench and turned the collar back and forth until it spun somewhat freely. It lifted right off after breaking the rust loose. Now to do the rest of them.
I have not relaxed the coils in the cradle, yet, so they will look like they will have a little more spacing between the coils. They tightened them up an extra 1/2"+. I think the coil count is the same. both coils are aftermarket, but from different suppliers. I'll have to wait and see what happens with these, but for the price, I can afford to change a few!
Definite hands full, I am about to go down the same road on the old Allis I have. Maybe enough pieces from old stock laying around to build a few up for replacements. Nooter Corp has a metallizing shop in St. Louis, Fabick Cat and a few other shops can get rollers refaced there but at a price.
I'm afraid my rollers were past the point of saving. On the dual-flange shells, I was missing more inner flanges than what I had left. I used to work for a company that remanufactured offset printing presses, and we had St. Louis Metallizing on our speed dial. They did great work for us.
I have been lacking in my motivation lately on working on the ol' loader. Between work schedules and crap for weather, I have not been tinkering too much. I've started back at the roller project. Put my first one together, and I am glad that assembly is going much better than pulling them apart. :thumbsup40 years of dirt can keep things from moving without some persuasion. Duo-cones are behaving so far...
When you fill them with oil it's best to leave a small air space (about 1.25" depth) right below the plug to allow for expansion when the oil gets hot or you could be mistakenly thinking you have a leaking Duo-Cone when in actual fact it's oil being pumped out due to expansion.
Thanks, Nige! I have been getting conflicting information on the oil for the rollers. Is it 30 or 50wt?
SAE30 sayeth the O&M Manual..........
Is it springtime yet??? This weather the last two days has really kicked me in gear. Going from CRAP to the mid sixties instantaneously has given me the itch. Too bad its supposed to snow tomorrow... I did uncover enough motivation to aim at finishing up my track rollers. Been busy with life and other projects that I have not worked on the cat for a while. I did uncover something quite interesting. Im not sure if it was a CAT field trial on press-fits or of these were on the assembly line Monday morning or Friday afternoon. :duh I pulled off the outer mount and found this: Anyone see anything out of place? Like I said, I just pulled off the mounting shell and nothing else...
That looks past the point of no return.
Rebuilding those rollers instead of replacing them is a gutsy move. My hat is off to you sir!
Looks like there's no bush in it - at least in that end, which raises the question did it ever have one..?
It might be harder to see than I thought. The 6 bolts holding the press fit bushing assembly were never installed. All the 40 years of turning and bumping around never popped it apart. Nitelite, I couldn't justify the cost of new rollers for a play toy. I figured this would definitely be better than destroying the rails. Hopefully I can keep all the oil inside once I'm done. I really need a bigger press than a 20 ton, but it gets the job done! I am hoping you don't have any horror stories for me on rebuilding rollers or using rebuilt rollers... Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Bushing must be a good fit and not really require the bolts............ With care you can rebuild rollers sucessfully, just like you're doing. The only thing you really need to do is to check for leaks when you start operating again and don't be frightened to pull a roller back off and have another bite at the cherry if it leaks the first time rather than running it dry. If one leaks it will likely be one half of the Duo-Cone installed just a hair twisted.
Not to jinx myself, but those duo cones on the first half of the rollers were a snap. They went much easier than I expected. I put them in the machine last night. The other 6 are pulled down and ready for a final cleaning and assembly. Fwiw, that roller without the bolts was one of the tightest to press apart! Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Six rollers pulled apart looks like a lot more than what it is: I am getting ready to give everything a good cleaning and reassemble. I could not believe that each of the 12 rollers were still full of oil! :thumbsup Yes, everything is marked for each roller!! :cool2 I also changed the final drive oils out last night. The oil was clean but very dark. No surprise shavings fell out, but before I dumped the old oil, I did notice one started leaking a little bit.
And that should be your target for the rebuilt rollers ..............
Buckled down Friday afternoon to finish up my rollers to put them in the machine this weekend. I was all exited to get them finished and button up the undercarriage. I was on my last roller and found I was shorted one set of duo cones. Dang. At least the other 11 are installed... Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Got the rollers in and the tracks tight!! Hopefully I'll find a little time tomorrow to work it a bit. I am going to keep all the sheet metal off for now to check for dribbles and whatnot. If everything looks good, I will button it up for now and run it for a season to see how it holds up. I need to rebuild some cylinders yet, but I want to see how bad they are seeping. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It felt good to push a little dirt! I was able to get the ol' beast out of the shop and give it a break-in run. I put a couple hours on it so I could dump the oil. I was about done playing and something started to feel a little "off". I am not sure what it is... It's still running on all cylinders and seems almost normal, but there is what feels like an imbalance on the drive line. It is with engine speed. I thought the worst that I was slapping a rod bearing, but I don't think that's the case. I ran it a little bit, but it never got worse. I could not tell if it was in my head or not. I drove it into the shop and dropped the oil, and there is no shinies in the oil I could see. I pulled off the valve cover, and the lash seems fine. I am trying to talk myself into dropping the pan and check everything, but I don't really know if I'm chasing my tail. It almost feels like if its in the front of the transmission. Is there a chance the torque converter is out of whack? Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Still have the shields off to see what's going on, but it felt good to get it out of the shop for a bit.
Your tracks wouldn't be running over that chain hanging off of the back of the machine would they? That would be something that would make you feel that something was just not right. The old gal looks good!
Not real familiar but have thoughts , rear motor mounts or drive shaft from torque to trans issues?
Odd feeling through the feet is most usualy the torque end bearing, its something you can hear at near low idle from walking around the shovel at a small distance, its knowing what it should sound like when things are good that helps with this judgement, but if things seem off someplace its most often the cause. tctractors p.s. it could be a snapped or loose mounting bolt at the back case??
I know. I need to take that chain off. It was a handy storage spot all winter while it was parked inside. I picked that chain up for $12 at an auction this winter. Can't complain for a 5/8" by 20' long chain with hooks! Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
That makes sense with the torque bearing. It was not doing it much at first, and I noticed something was not quite right after a bit of use. So... do I have to yank the engine to repair this, or can I pull the biscuits and input flange to get to it? What bolts at the back case are the ones to which you are referring? Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
A dry u joint bearing cup, will start to seize and make a wobble or a "somethings wrong" feeling.
Ironic that you mention rear motor mounts. When I was going through the engine this winter, I found that one was loose. All the shims were still there, but the bolt spun freely. It is now torqued! Good thought!
I know exactly what you are talking about. I piddle on an old Allis HD5-B from time to time, and it has a driveshaft connecting the clutch to the transmission. This one has a coupler with rubber biscuits. The biscuits appear to be in good shape. Another way to describe the "odd feeling" is something similar to fan bearing going out, or one that is bent. The fan runs true(ish) on this one. There is some minor damage to the blades where the bearings have been out before. I had a harmonic balancer start doing the dance on an old Chevy 6.5L and it was similar as well. Only it is towards the rear of the engine (I think) on this one.
I'm coming to the realization that my service manual on CD from Jensales is not helpful at all... In the powertrain disassembly section, it is completely missing a page on removing the torque converter. That is helpful... :Banghead
I don't know if this was mentioned but did you check the alignment of the drive coupling with a dial indicator. Sorry the pictures didn't print Flexible Coupling Drive Removal And Installation 1-Bolts (sixteen). 2-Joints (four). 3-Bolt, washer assembly, washer (assemble with concave side against washer assembly). 4-Flywheel output flange. 5-Torque converter input flange. Checking Flexible Drive Coupling Alignment Position engine in mounting location within the main frame. Check for correct engine-to-transmission alignment as follows: 1. Remove the torque converter input flange. 2. Fasten a 7H1942 Indicator (with a 7H1940 Universal Attachment) to the torque converter input shaft using a 7H1948 Snug, 7H1945 Holding Rod, 3/8 in. (9,5 mm) diameter rod 3 in. (76,2 mm) long and a 1J9778 Hose Clamp. CHECKING VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL ALIGNMENT (Viewed from left side of machine.) Total indicator reading must not exceed .080 in. (2,03 mm). Correct any misalignment by adding or removing shims under engine rear supports. 3. Zero the indicator on the outside diameter of engine output flange as illustrated. Take an indicator reading every 90° while rotating the torque converter input shaft one complete turn. 4. Remove the 7H1940 Universal Attachment. Position the anvil of the dial indicator between the bolt holes and the ouside diameter of engine output flange as illustrated. View Image CHECKING FACE ALIGNMENT (Viewed from left side of machine.) Total indicator reading must not exceed .026 in. (0,66 mm). Move front of engine as necessary to obtain correct dimension. 5. Zero the dial indicator. Take an indicator reading every 90° while rotating the torque converter input shaft one complete turn. 6. Recheck both settings and adjust if necessary. When alignment is correct, tighten engine mounting bolts as follows: a. Front mounting bolts - 460 ± 50 lb. ft. (63,6 ± 6,9 mkg). b. Rear mounting bolts - 225 ± 30 lb. ft. (31,1 ± 4,1 mkg). Misalignment If it is necessary to shift the engine from one side to the other in the frame, loosen the hold-down bolts and shift the engine accordingly. If the holes for the hold-down bolts are enlarged, dowels should be installed to hold the engine in the proper location after it is bolted down. Extreme misalignment is probably the result of bent main frame channels. They should be straightened. Extreme wear in the engine front support will also cause misalignment
I did have both rear mounts and the biscuits loose to jack the engine up a fraction of an inch to pull pan bolts. I did not check alignment after that. I think I will check this to see if that is the case. Thanks! I would do a dance if that was the issue!
Tony, is the bearing you refer to ref 8? I did notice the seal is weeping a little when I was working on the engine.
These should be the missing pictures, hope it helps a little. FIRST ONE SECOND ONE
No 8, is the boy that spits the dummy out, but its also an option to check things out some in the other parts that are ley on the floor after the converter case has been popped off, the big tip hear is to drop the belly plates and give a hell of a good steam clean with the floor plates out etc, then drive the tractor up on timber baulks as the front bit is removed by going down (best method if cab etc is fitted) it can come out the top but its a good bit more work. tctractors
Uggg.....sounds just like my 955L Gravel-ee rumble heard while walking around the machine only at lowest idle.
How long has your 955L been growling? Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Silly question here. Can I pull off the front cover while its still in the machine?
Good question. I have owned the machine for 3 years but only worked it for an hour so I guess it was like that when bought. I caught the noise the last time I started it up just to run the engine but didn't move it.
Amazing how we are afraid to run our machines, afraid of a costly breakdown. I had a friend that owned a small two cylinder diesel John Deere dozer for more than forty years but he was afraid to use it for the same reason. One day he put diesel fuel in it out of his gas can. The can had a small amount of gas in it which caused his dozer to run away. He said the closer to the barn he got, the faster it got. Once inside the barn he jumped off, took out his pocket knife and proceeded to cut all of the wires that he could find. Needless to say, that did not kill the screaming engine, so he went to the house to call someone for help, not knowing what else to do. He returned to the scene after thirty minutes to the barn hanging full of smoke, but the engine had shut down. That little trick cost him $3000.00 for an engine rebuild. Floyd is dead now, killed by his tractor mounted roto tiller. My brother bought the old dozer and it runs every day with no problems.
My main reason is lack of time and maybe the fact that I bought the loader too soon but there is plenty of future work for it. I recently finished an almost 3 year long project running power to the property. I devoted 100% of my time to that project and now I'm trying to get caught up on other issues that I have been putting aside. Unfortunately, the list keeps growing and the loader priority is dropping like a rock.
I know that feeling of projects falling down the list! I have a few of those, myself. I have even started letting loose of a few. I really hate to do that, but I have to draw the line somewhere. Last one to go was my CJ-7. That was a fun time on wheels. I'm hoping to get the kinks out of this dozer before every ounce of free time left vanishes when we build our house this summer! I plan on letting the basement contractors handle the excavation of the basement, but I'm going to reshape everything around it for the walkout.
Bumping the question. I've looked at the manual and it says to pull the entire unit, but the disassembly instructions of this side looks like I could pull off the cover as it sets and let the torque converter "hang" in place. I'd definitely wedge it up to keeping it resting with weight on the output. I'm still going to check alignment, but I need to change the input seal anyhow. And since the biscuits are coming out, I am going to install new ones with new hardware. And since I'm that far, I would like to change the input bearing, too. Thoughts? I've already parked the machine back over the pit, so I'll probably drop the belly pan and take a look-see and give it a wash from the bottom up.
Tony (tctractors) is your man to say whether or not it's possible. As always there are loads of "acceptable" procedures that never get into the manuals.
Have any words of wisdom for me, Tony? My business trip for next week is off, so I plan on taking a look-see and replacing the bearing. I need to drop the tranny fluid and change the filters anyhow. It's the only oil I haven't touched. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Words of Wisdom??? Off Me???? the front cover can be removed and I seem to remember the front torque bearing can be seen by removing the front seal, but the cab tilting job is still needed to be done, there was a ram tilt kit that I used to borrow off a local Co to tilt things with at times but it can be done with 2 pull lifts (Lever hoists) 1 to pull the cab over, the other to stop its fall (control) there was also some linkage, lower panels and other junk to remove on both control sides, plus all the usual cabin clutter that might break a window, anyhow the thing is how lucky are you as the back bearing on the other end of the torque can also give out some trouble, if you pull out the complete torque section off the trans'you need to also pop some lift hitches onto the front case as well as the 5/8 lift eye, this will give you a chance to look inside the torque and see if things are happy. tctractors
I decided to go out tonight and take a peek after we put the kids to bed. I ended up dropping the belly pan and pulled the biscuits out from the bottom. Went pretty slick over the pit. I pulled off the front cover off the torque converter and took a look at the bearing.
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I love this forum. I hope that you can provide plenty of pics in case I have to do the same repair. I don't have any water available for pressure washing so any large repair like this would be down right miserable. I don't know how the field guys do it.
Sorry everyone. That's what happens when I try and post pictures from my phone.. There was a little water that came out of the belly when I pulled the plug. Just a few cupfuls. There was some rust marking on the bearing. Nothing too serious, but I am hoping that is what I was feeling. I'll do my best! There is no way I would be able to do this by myself (or have the ambition) without the old heifer parked over the pit. That has been a life-saver. My hat is off to all the service guys that go out and fix these beasts where they lie.
Here is another pic of the bearing. In the previous post, I put a picture of the race. Does it look like it's in the right spot?
Thanks for the pictures. I am going to build a 12' x 46' side shead on to the side of my shop building. After reading your post I just might consider putting in a pit. What are the measurements of your pit. Post pictures of the pit if you get a chance. Does it have a drain in the bottom? Steps going down?
That pit is not used very often, but when it is, its invaluable. It is a little bit of a nuisance in the middle of the shop, but nothing bad to work around. I will see if I can get some pictures and dimensions for you. My father built it years ago to service ag equipment when he built his 40' x 60' shop. he had oak planks sawed up 3" thick by 12" wide. If I remember correctly, he poured the side walls 10" or 12" thick. It's a little too wide for some cars (I think 4') , and it is plenty long (guessing 20'), but the height is great for me, and I'm 6'4" (I think 5' deep). If I was to build one, I'd make it a foot narrower and half as long. I've never used more than half of it. We never had stairs for it, but a dedicated ladder stays in the pit. He was able to run a natural drain tile out of the pit, so it could be used to wash the undersides of whatever was parked on it. Since I have that to use, I've decided not to put one in my shop, but I am planning on installing a 2-post lift. I would definitely use the lift more than the pit, but it would not serve well for heavy equipment. :cool2 The farm place is across the road from our house, so I buzz over there on the golf cart to do my heavy tinkering.
I drug the belly pan out from under the bowels of the beast. Wow. No wonder it was a tad bit heavy!
I also placed another call into Jeff at Off Road Equipment. I have a new bearing, seals, filters, and a few other nicknacks on their way. I ordered new biscuits and bolts since I was right there... They looked to be in fair condition, but I think it would definitely be worth the investment! I pulled the front torque bearing out of the housing to take a closer look. I think I see what happened. There was a pocket of flaky rust between the bearing and the seal. The bearing had a group of rollers that probably sat in some moisture while the machine was parked for a few years. I'm speculating some pitting and some stray flakes of rust commenced to fatigue the bearing after a few hours of use.
How does the outside race look?
I did not knock out the rollers to see how the outside race looks, but the inner race on the converter shaft does not have any pitting that I can see. There is a picture on #153 . I am not sure if the new bearing comes with a new inner race. Here is a closer shot:
Your right,looks like it sat for some time with water in there,I see some pitting on those bottom splines as well.Any way those rollers look like crap!
If the outer race is not right galled up you might need to check out things deeper by pulling the torque to bits,but please dont be stuffing a load of work into something on my limited knowledge of track shovels, I am a bit of an odd sort as I love it when my stuff starts to spit the dummy out, as I like to pull things to bits with my handy man tool kit, so if you are going to replace that bearing you need to smash out those rollers and look for a good section of damage in the outer race, near all CAT bearings are sold as a cup or cone /roller or race = 2 bits to make 1 bearing. tctractors
I took a look on SIS and the bearing should be a 5H1901, this does NOT include the inner race. That is 8B5964. Cat makes it a little tricky as the bearing is shown with the outer housing but the inner race is on another page with the inner converter assembly.
So....I guess I can hold the pan up with one hand while taking out the bolts? Yet another job I'm not looking forward to. How did you get your pan off over the pit? The farmer I bought my machine from used it to compact silage so it might be a packed up mess under there. I need to tell somebody about what just happened because it's a first for me and probably never to be repeated. I got my parts book out to better see what you are dealing with, opened it up, and there in front of me was the EXACT page that your front bearing was listed on.
:lmao Never a dull moment reading your posts TC. :lmao
Thanks for the continuing words of wisdom! This gizmo has the rollers caged to the outer race, and the outer shell definitely shows signs of water damage. The inner race that is still on the shaft looks pretty good. I should have ordered the inner race ring, but I didn't, yet. As rough as that bearing was, I think that it very well could be the culprit. If not, I'll pull it apart deeper. It's just more labor, right? I'm sure a few more hours of use and I'll find yet another problem... Thanks for checking on this! I'm going to see if I can source an inner ring. I have contemplated leaving the inner race where it's at. It looks pretty good. I definitely had to eat my Wheaties to pull that pan with one hand on the wrench and one holding up the pan! I will confess - I put the planks back in the pit under the pan and rolled a heavyweight floor jack under it in the center of the pan. I pushed up against it and dropped the bolts. I let it down and slid the jack out from under it. I used a chain fall to pull it out from under the loader.
If the inner race looks good I would leave it alone as its best changed on a big repair out of the tractor, it looks fine to me? tctractors p.s. dont forget to hit your balls out! and check your race???
I popped a couple out and took a peek behind them. There is a section of it that looked like it lived under water a day or two. A stretch about 6 rollers long is like the picture.
It is always the opposite for me when I need to find the page! You'd better go and buy a lottery ticket, unless you used up all your luck on the page flip!
Ok. So I could not help myself. I went to the shop at lunch to look. And there is the problem in plain sight. THE RACE DOES NOT GO THERE!!!!!!!!!! I put the bearing back in and put the cover on. Everything lined up. And then I looked closely: I see ALL of the splines! Cover back off: Hmm... Oh, Wait! The race slid off by hand! :Banghead:Banghead:Banghead The race was not even parked where it's supposed to be when it rusted up! The shaft still looks pretty good, but the race was definitely spinning... It was still a good snug slip fit, so loctite and a new race it is! ointhead
] The shaft still looks pretty good, but the race was definitely spinning... It was still a good snug slip fit, so loctite and a new race it is! ointhead[/QUOTE] Sounds like you just won your own lottery, finding that problem before the spinning race emptied your wallet! Red Loctite should do the job.
We are going GREEN! http://www.permatex.com/products-2/...ermatex-bearing-mount-for-relaxed-fits-detail
I don't ever remember seeing green. I learn something new every day!
I got the bearing and race installed tonight and it went together great. I used the bearing retaining compound and primer, so it shouldn't go anywhere. I dabbed a bit on the bearing OD for good measure. I took the torch and GENTLY heated the bearing race and took off the heat when the spit would dance, right before it begins to turn a straw color. I've fit many a sleeve in a previous career when I used to be employed as a machinist, so I could get a good 'feel' of the temp. I put my indicator on the flange and ended up with about 0.090" TIR on the perimeter and 0.025" on the face, so I am going to nudge the engine around a bit tomorrow night. Had a little helper greet me at the door tonight. His home must have been flooded with all the rain. Too bad he did not have a few more friends with him, or I would have invited him to supper!
I made up some shims to lift it up a bit. I found some 1/2" x 2" fender washers and drilled them out and ground them down (surface grinder) to 0.045". If I don't get blown away in that nasty storm coming through this evening, I'm going to head out to the shop and see if they will do the trick. That should help with my face alignment as well.
Dancing spit, is there a spec' for that in the Cat manual? Another step is where oil just starts to smoke, but that can be getting a little too hot. Now I expect someone will be saying we should get some of those temp crayons that melt at set temperatures.
The Firm (me by myself) has been a bit bisso' the last few days so I have missed some "Drama" anyhow the inner race on the shaft is not un-common to move some when the front plate gets wrenched off, the front flange would have limited its travels in the all together state, the permatex gunk is a good answer to this issue, but if the race needed heating it would only need a few moments of fire treatment to make spit dance, so the pale straw thing being over 1000 deg? I would doubt that this bearing is the cause of your clatter, the fact that the engine is out of kilter would put up a good din at low idle, the other day I popped a torque from the belly of a D8H, this dozer was working well and pushing like a Train, I told the owner that it seemed soft on the stall and needed a peep inside, lucky for me the torque was possibly the biggest lump of scrap I have seen still working, (pics in Shop Talk) the thrust roller was cubed up with the impellor cracked every place, the other components are only fit for scrap but it was still working strong, oh and it was suffering the usual D8 issues on the engine mountings with 1 side dropped well over 1/2" so I also popped off the engine back case to swap out for a good 1, anyhow good luck with your repair lets hope it heals up. tctractors
I did read that you've had your hands full lately! Sounds like some heavy lifting!! I did get it all back together last night and fired it off in the shop. From the little I ran the motor, it sure seemed to be a bit calmer. I really won't have an opportunity to work it for a while since it dropped enough rain to fill a lake in the last few days. That race did show signs of spinning on the input shaft. Nothing to cause a lot of damage, but it would have with not being tended to IMHO. There never was any clatter, so to say, but something was a little off, a walking bearing fits the description of the feel (at least I'm going to tell myself that until I get to run it and make sure). The straw color is definitely not of the glowing type! Its a slight oxidation of a polished steel starting around 400°F. There is some info here: http://www.maintenancebits.com/blog/category/bearing-types/ball-bearings/page/2/ and I know they say right next to the chart to not use a gas axe, but a poor man has poor ways. I got the motor within 0.030" circ TIR and 0.018" on the face. Hopefully that's close enough!
Will Crayola crayons work? I could borrow a few from my children :shf
This might be a better idea http://www.omega.com/pptst/OMEGAMARKER.html Or you could go here http://www.crayolastore.com//customer-care/contact-us and ask them the melting point of the red ones!:idea
I got the crawler out of the shop yesterday to see how my bearing replacement fared. I left the pans off just in case. Since it rained 4"+ in the past few days, I was just going to run it up and down the drive a few times. Well that was a little rough riding, so I ventured off onto some sod. The ground was not collapsing under me as I was expecting, so I got a little braver. Long story short, I ended up shaving a hillside for three hours while "testing" the repair. I even ran her out of fuel... oops! On the up side, it was too easy to prime compared to some others! 5 gal of fuel and a quick bleed, she woke right back up As far as the noise, the growl at low idle is gone. That was definitely the bearing. The other odd feeling I had was still there, but I'm wondering if it was something simple all along... I looked at my muffler stack, and it was not seated all the way down. The noise kind of matches an exhaust leak. The engine runs smooth as silk at idle, so bearings are fine. It seems like when its spooled up, the noise is a little more prominent, but the sound never changed a lick the whole time. I think I'm just being a little too paranoid on a 40 yr old machine... I was running it at one point that I got the engine a little warm. I found I'm having a bit of a problem keeping the radiator pressurized. The big fill cap does not seal. It is too pitted under the cap for a metal on metal seal. Is there supposed to be a gasket under the cap? After working the machine for a while, I put the crawler through it's paces to see how the shuttle and torque are holding up. I was quite impressed to see it spin tracks pretty easy shoveling things in second gear. The grousers are probably part of the reason, but none the less, it seems strong. 3rd scoots along pretty quick! I'm really impressed how quiet the tracks are. I've never asked the question, buy they say 'sealed' on the rails and there are plugs in the pins. Does that mean they are lubricated as well? The only leaks I can find are the bucket clamp cylinders and the torque input seal is a little damp. I am going to give it a good washing and put the sheet metal back on. I am still on the fence with the cylinders. I should just rebuild all of them, but I'm still dragging my feet.
Yes there should be a rubber gasket. In picture it is # 34 P/N 2P3230 # 35 P/N 2S2846 is basically just a thin metal washer to hold the gasket in place when cap is off. # 36 P/N 9S9979 is a snap ring to hold everything in place It appears that your radiator has more or less a standard pressure cap like a car, a little different than the Cats I'm familiar with, has this been changed? If the filler neck is pitted maybe take a good flat file and smooth it up.
It does have both the standard pressure cap off to the side the large fill cap up top center. The pressure cap is fine, but the big one is leaking. I'm pretty sure there is no gasket in it. I'll take a look after a while. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Sorry, I can't help myself! If you want some light reading, check out the Leidenfrost effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect On another (less smarty butt ) note, I looked under the big radiator cap and there is still a gasket there, but it is a little hard. I tightened it up a little more snugly than I had it before. If it is still leaky, I'll slip a new gasket under the cap. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
For sure, it is a lot more fun working with the machines than working on them. I am happy that you finally got a little seat time rather than pit time! My 951C has both radiator caps. The large brass cap seems to seal well. The smaller automotive type pressure cap does not hold any pressure at all and needs to be replaced. Does anyone know if the smaller cap is indeed an automotive cap or a cap that only fits heavy equipment?
Glad to hear that your noise went away with a relatively easy repair. I pulled my batteries out Saturday for replacement and dropped a nice SK ratchet and socket down into the abyss. I heard it pinball for a few seconds so I knew it went deep. I gave up looking on the left hand side as all I could see was a jumble of caked up hoses and such. For some reason I looked on the right hand side and there it was sitting on top of the belly pan. I don't know how it got over there but a long rod and a super magnet should reach it nicely.
Very possible that a good automotive store could match it up by size. There should be a number stamped on the top for the pressure setting, sometimes it is in the center of the rivit holding the cap togeather.
I was secretly hoping to find some treasures in my pan when I dropped it, but all I got was a mess...
That is usually what happens lol. You can buy a brand new machine with no leaks and some how within 100 hours the belly pans are full of oil or at least that has always been my luck Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
I've seen the end result of too much garbage, too much oil and too much heat on quite a few machines over my days in the field, a great deal of losses to fires were due to not cleaning out the muck holding pans.
That s one of the things I liked about V8 engines when I was doing lots engine work. Quite often would find a socket or other small tool down in the Vee under the fuel pump. I wish I could convince my bosses that dropping the belly pans on our loaders and such was a normal service procedure, not just something you did as a last resort to gain access to a failed hose. It took over three years and a leaking oil pan on a 980G to get to drop belly pan on one that came to us with several inches of stone that covered oil cooler lines and lower radiator pipe. How the stone got in there I'll never understand, this was stone the size of a golf ball for the most part, not fine stuff the tires would throw up over the years!
It sounds like the loader is starting to work its way up your list!
Ahh....posted at 9:55 Well, doing just enough so I can start and run it again. I don't like machinery to sit for long periods of time without getting things up to temp and circulating the fluids around every so often. I need to rebuild at least the right side track adjuster before I can play around with it. I'm sorta glad it didn't turn over because I got to fiddling with the dust bowl while waiting around to see what a heavy charge would do for the batteries. I looked down the big pipe going to the main filter and it was totally clogged with another mouse nest. Then I took the cover off of the main filter and it was soaking wet with some water sitting in the bottom of the can. So now I need to replace the filter and mouse/waterproof the dust bowl.:Banghead
It sounds like you need a few more cats that meow! There are more than enough breathing cats in our area. I have not seen a mouse in a long time. Just have to watch out for the fertilizer all around... That track adjuster repair process was a lot less of a PITA than I initially thought. It seemed to be one of the simpler repairs so far on the machine. I'm not sure how much different yours will be since yours is a 13x with the newer undercarriage. I am admittedly quite envious of the shiny paint on your machine. So much so that I had to go and order some paint today!
I have seen two strays over the past few years but they don't stick around because of the coyotes I'm guessing. I think the design is identical but maybe some bits are heavier, the track for sure. Yeah, someone did a nice prep job before painting and it was stored inside, another large task I need to get working on someday. I tried covering it when I first bought it but that ended up being a really stupid idea. ointhead
I've just about wrapped up my first "project" that the 955L took part in. I needed a fair amount of fill for my new shed so I hauled a few dozen loads off the steep bank. I used the hoe to bucket the steep part off the bank next to the road, and reshaped the bank and adjoining yard. I peeled off all the topsoil into a massive mountain and pushed clay into some low spots up to a few feet deep. I just got the topsoil back on the earth yesterday and leveled it off today with the grader. It's still a little spongy, so I'll let it dry for a while and come back for final grade and seeding. I got the cap on the radiator snugged up a bit and it quit leaking. I am going to start washing it down and get the sheet metal back on the loader. Paint should be in Thursday!! Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
I've been playing close attention to my little noise. It never changed at all. It flat out purrs at idle, even hot. When it gets up to temp, the noise seems to be more prominent, but it may just be the nature of the beast. I've never had any seat time in a 3304 before now. I'm going to check valve lash one more time for good measure. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Sounds like your hard work on the old girl is finally producing some pay back and pure old enjoyment. It is always in our minds working with old iron, what's going to happen next. You need an I pod, good music playing through the headphones, and just enjoy what you are doing for as long as it last. There will always be something!
Any more in-action photos?
I don't think I have any of the machine in action, but I do have a few progress photos: It was raining this morning, so I did not get out of the truck for the photo:
kb9tci, you are going to need a lot of grass seed!
I believe you're right. I am waiting for it to settle for a bit and then give it a final grading. I might even give it a coat of composted manure with a spreader for good measure. At least I won't be the one mowing it!
I'm going to be stuck in the easy chair for the next few days whilst I heal up from some mechanicin' on my own body, so I thought about going on a hunt on the interwebs for some missing sheet metal on the Cat. Anyone know where I can find a lower right panel that covers the starter?
kb9tci, while you are healing up, I have a track tensioner leaking down on my D4E dozer. The seal kit is the same as for the 951C loader and I would think, looking at the pictures, not a lot different than your 955 L loader tensioners. I have the new seal kit. The machine has salt track chains so it does have the bolt up master. After the experience of rebuilding your own tensioners, what do I need to watch out for. Is there a way to do the job without breaking track, or just suck it up, split the track and get on with it? I am using the dozer to get a pad ready for a gravel delivery but tensioning the track only last for about one hour working time now so I need to take the time to reseal it. I have not removed the guards yet but all of that grease is going somewhere. From what I can see with the guards in place the springs look to have been replaced, just judging by the paint on them.
Nitelite, That grease goes to a secret hiding place! I never even broke the track on my machine when I pulled the springs & rebuilt the seals. And if I'm not mistaken, it's the exact same kit I used. I would venture to guess that you could do the exact same thing I did and pull the springs. Someone may pipe in here and disagree, but I think it would be easier to load up your springs and slide them back than split track. It gives you a good chance to check the spring conditions as well. If your springs are installed similarly, all you have to do is put your hitch pin in your sprocket and back up until you start compressing the spring. As soon as the spring starts to load, lock your brakes and run that nut up against the back of the spring. Pull forward a bit and the spring should be able to be pulled with the 4 bolts that hold the clamps to the frame and the 4 that hold the adjuster to the idler rod. Definitely make sure the pressure is off the spring clamps and held by good threads on the nut and rod before pulling out the spring!! If that works, once you get the adjuster loose, pry it into the housing a bit so you can slide the spring forward and get it out of the saddle. You'll have the adjuster rebuilt in about 5 minutes once you get all the grease wiped up! I'll try and look at the parts diagram on your machine in the morning to see how close it is with the spring assembly. If you need more detail, say the word. I apparently like this forum a little too much, as I had to check it on my way back from the bathroom in the middle of the night...
Thanks for the info. I will know more when I get the guards off. I need to get that pad ready for gravel first and can't give up the dozer until it is done. I have a real good price on the gravel as long as I can keep it coming. If I postpone the order the next order will be $75.00 more per load. I have had eight loads delivered so far with about five to go.
I forgot to ask about this earlier... I've looked inside the radiator when I had the cap off, trying to get it to seal up better. The inside of the radiator reservoir shows signs of scale and crud that really should be cleaned out. I know I should pull it out and take it to the radiator shop. It is probably not coming off right now due to other project priorities. Has anyone used a flushing chemical in heavy equipment? Something like this: It appears to simply contain Hydrochloric Acid as the cleaning agent. http://www.permatex.com/resources/tds?view=tds&format=raw&filename=80030.pdf&market=automotive
I have never added any internal cleaning agents into a wet sleeve engine, I have seen what even a small acidity in the coolant will do and it ain't Purdy. These engines take enough of a beating, if you wish to clean the radiator I would seriously suggest removal and shop work.
That's kinda my gut feeling, too. There's a lot of nooks and crannies that that stuff could hide. One could always do a pH test after a flush, but...
I fired off the pressure washer today to take the first few layers of grunge off the machine to get it ready for some wire-wheeling for a fresh coat of paint. Four tanks of fuel later in the pressure washer, I found a stopping point. I had the shields off the 4-n-1 and found some disappointment under the sludge. The bucket linkage has some bad cracking that needs repair. I am going to have to take the clamshell off to get to it...
I see your machine has a Ulrich on it as does mine, mine just a tad older. Mine has had to have a few pins made up, a few scuff plates and a few breaks welded to it as well. What do you think of the geometry it takes on when opening and closing, sure is a lot of moving parts!!
It sure is. I never looked that closely to the parts manual yet for the bucket. Now my question turns to cylinder kits. Where/who?
I always assumed it was Cat. I saw there was one in the parts manual, so I never looked any closer. Good thing you pointed that out before I ordered seal kits! That is some crazy linkage work. With all that over-engineering, I wish it would open a little farther. Mine has quite a few repairs, too. I've been using it for a while and the cylinders drip a little, but nothing ridiculous. I wish I could shove a little more dirt in the bucket, though. I am probably going to keep my eye out for a standard bucket to to the heavy lifting.
I am pretty sure Ulrich is long out of business, have not found anything on the net as to parts. Only hope I could have will be independent hydraulics shop as to getting repair parts for the cylinders, I suspect they are a common manufacturer. My big gripe is the dammed thing is so ridiculous heavy, my old Allis has a counterweight on the butt just to hold that mass of steel up. I got a GP bucket with the donor, it is in line for a project to rebuild, thin as tissue paper and broken almost everywhere. I really don't get all the linkage stuff, seems like way too much engineering to do what a 4/1 is supposed to.
Cannot tell by your photos if the extended spoil control lip suffered the same fate as mine. Previous owner found a tree with it so I cut it away, still intend to put some kind of header above the back of the bucket.
This was the donor prior to disassembly:
Definitely missing that. I'll have to look close for evidence of having one.
Lip was an addition to the bucket backwall. Was only 3/16" material and reasonably flimsy so did not take much to destroy it. As to dimension, was 9" wide, the width of the bucket and tapered about 40 degrees from the weld to the top edge, it lay at the same angle as the top plate on the rear bucket assembly so was pitched forward to the bucket backwall. Had 1" edge reinforcement but that as evidenced was pretty well useless. I am considering a rough same dimension, 1/4"x2"x 12" strakes(6 to 8) welded on the top of the rear bucket assembly, notched at the outer end to take a 2x2x 3/16" angle iron then weld a face plate of 3/16 steel to that. Although when I get done with dropping Locust trees I may just switch it to a GP and leave the control for something else if anything at all.
Where to find cylinder kits? On my antiques I generally take the cylinder apart myself and take the seals and wipes to one of the local hydraulic shops. If you have screw on ends loosen it while still on the machine if possible. Many times the barrel can stay on the machine. The hydro shop usually have everything I need in stock. Lots of the internal seals interchange, many are better seals that original. Normally get by for 20 to 30 bucks for both piston and shaft components. Other than sometimes bull work pulling them apart they are very simple inside.
That's probably what I'm going to end up doing. I was getting ready to tear into it, but I got a bit thrown off in my process... My basement is getting dug! So... a quick weld job on the bucket to hold it together for a while and time to go play in the dirt! Tossed on the sheet metal and ready for work. I am not doing anything for digging out the hole, but I have a huge walkout project to add to this. Son climbing the mountain:
Had to cut a trench to drain the basement. I have a lot of dirt to remove, but it will be worth it. Little helpers.
The house is coming along great, but I may have some issues with the old heifer that I need some more expertise! I have been working the old 955L pretty hard shaping the landscape around the house. I have noticed that it has been getting a lazy injection valve. After it sits overnight, I have to clear its throat to get it going on all 4. After that, all is good. For the most part. Every once in a while, it will spurt a puff of black, but has been running smoothly. Until this morning. I was running it pretty hard and it started slowly losing power and smoking black. And started shaking. It sounded like it was still running on all 4, but something is wrong. I checked the oil. It's still free of shinies. The torque converter still seems to work Ok. Steering is fine. All temps were in range. I needed injectors anyway, so those are on their way. Not sure if that us the issue, but I'm going to see. The more I think of it, are those symptoms of a failing torque? It seems like the imbalance is more from the engine area, but I have been working it hard. I've got about 25 hours on it since rebuilding the engine.
To make sure you have no sparklies, cut the engine oil filter open, remove a section and squeeze it in a vice. Then look in the bottom of the pleats for anything that sparkles. It might also be an idea to lift the valve cover and do a quick check of the valve clearances, just to be sure. Did the vibration stop if you stopped the machine, put the trans in neutral, and left the engine at High Idle..? If the answer is no I would suggest that your issue is most likely fuel/injection related.
Before you drag the nozzles out, pull the intake side tube off the turbo, look for rub marks deeper than just contact. Then GENTLY reach in and try to turn the intake turbine with two fingers, if it doesn't move readily easily you have a turbo failed. If it turns easy but slops side to side with heavy contact burrs it is still in bad shape and needs changed.
Nige, I did mess around with it a bit, and the problems were still quite apparent in neutral. When the engine was still hot, the shake was there with anything off idle. I let it sit throughout day and started it in the evening, finding the lower throttle was not near as bad as it was, but it was still there. I have had the feeling to need to check the valves anyway, so I will definitely do that. I am expecting a few sparkles in the filter due to the aggressive hone to seat the rings. I'll have to look close to see what color they are. I am hoping to be safe on this one. I have shucked a turbo before, and this one still sounded smooth (It had a reman on it and it was still quite tight when I checked it out while rebuilding). It still sounded good while I was running it with the shaking. I will be right there to check it, so it will not hurt to take a peek anyhow
Could have plugged the fuel return to tank off the injection system, may wish to check that as well, will force fuel thru the system that should be rejected as well at the incorrect time and pressure. Did not want to even think it before, can't hurt to just out and say that a engine trying to lock down will fuel up fight to stay running. I am not trying to jinx, just stating a point!
The black smoke and the death rattle of the engine suck down, usualy involves an engine about to lock up, it was a popular event for me a few years back on CAT 215-219 excavators, if this ends good I will be some what amazed, look out for the rod hole that can show fast, with the turbo removed from the engine and the oil feed blanked off the engine will still run very well without load, if you have a duff injector nozzle it never coughs up its innards and starts to lock up. tctractors
Here is a short video of it starting. I had to give it more throttle than normal to start. There is a valve or nozzle knock coming out the pipe, but it sure rolls over easily. http://youtu.be/Muov3E1sfeI
Time to pull the head, I hear what I presume to be a scored piston, the loss of compression, failure to start without extra fuel and the sound of a weak hole when cranking. The little puffs of black may have been a foretell of a cylinder failing.
I went out and started it without the engine oil fill plug installed to see if I could find anything for blow by timed with an individual cylinder. Nothing excessive was coming out and it did not seem like there was an isolated "poof" of blow by corresponding with one cylinder. I'm curious if there may be a burnt valve. I wish I had the right adapter for a compression test. For the fun of it, I changed the fuel filter to no avail. I have a lot of work lined up for the old gal, so I need to figure this out soon. The wife wants this house finished post haste! I am going to walk it over to the pit and see what the issue is. My luck is something I skimped on during the rebuild came to bite me in the hind end. I'll find out soon enough. Thanks for the thoughts!
Before pulling the head as suggested above, do you have access to a borescope..? That would be a good way of having a look down the holes without the need to be ripping the head off.
I have yet to get around to the planned rebuild of the 3304 in the old 951C. My battery died! I am not referring to the one in the battery box on the Cat but rather the one implanted in my chest. It has an alarm on it that sounds like a German police car. As it becomes more urgent the interval between the sounding gets more frequent and more intense. I have about three months or less until I am out of time. Today I postponed the surgery to replace the unit until early August. I am thinking that as I already have the kit, I can still conjure up enough energy to get it done before the surgery. The only real difference is whether I have the heart surgery with clean fingernails or fingernails with grease embedded under the nails. I hope my Dr. don't skimp on my rebuild and it comes back to bite me in the hind end!
On the video thing I would put a few coins on the clatter is coming off the crankshaft, only just beaten by the rattling rain flap, so my thoughts are "Go Straight to Sump" No1 main and any B/end should reveal the drama. tctractors p.s. if that shovel was in the U.K. it would be sitting in my garden as I would buy it in a heart beat. p.p.s. not trying to be impolite to nitelite with this comment.
A little extra grease under the nails will just give the pre-op nurses something to keep them occupied! And yes, let's hope they don't cut any corners! You never know with this great health insurance disaster. At the least, please don't wear your jump starter out before you go in for repairs!
I won't give up on the bugger just yet, but if you're interested, I can get a quote from FedEx to see what it will take to make it to your garden
Cat 955L saved from being paperclips. Looking for help on tensioners and inje... Today is definitely a Monday. I decided to fire it off and limp it to the shed to see what I can find. I roll it over and put a little coal to it to bring it to life. The wind is gently wafting the exhaust to my face as I take a breath and smell the sweet aroma of coolant in the combustion chamber. Oh, and the coolant dribbling town the exhaust. *%#*+! So the head is coming off... It almost seems like it could be blown between cylinders. Now the question is - do i drive it across the road running as it is to get it to the shop, or do I rip it apart right where it sits? And the question after that - why did it give out? 1 - I used a classic head gasket. 2 - I had good liner protrusion. 3 - It ran warm. It was always at the high side of the normal range when warmed up. I suppose the needle could have been stuck to where it could not go hotter. I was pushing it a bit. Possible cracked head? 4 - it was a reman head. So there is a mountain of dirt waiting to be relocated, and I need it running yesterday. And I am fixing it on my own time. Bummer.
Old friend, I think I'll just wait a tad longer to do my engine tear down, just until you find out what caused your engine failure. Your hard earned experience just might save me some latter grief.
Personally I would have gone for the genuine article. Nothing wrong with Reman heads (depending on who did the Remanning) If you got a bad one it could simply be unlucky. Need the head off first to see exactly what went wrong and what damage you have.
Your first post in this thread mentions precombustion chambers. I don't know if you replaced them or not. I would make sure that I didn't have a problem there before I tore it down further. They can get pinholes in them or the steel washer could be leaking coolant into the combustion chamber. You can shoot the exhaust manifold with an infrared temp gun to narrow it down also. You can pull each glow plug and put the cylinder on TDC(lock the brakes so that the machine doesn't run over you) and shoot some air to the cylinder and see if the coolant bubbles in the radiator. If it were mine, I'd start it up and get it to the shop first.
When you pull the head, if no obvious blown spots on the gasket have the head checked.
When I brought the machine home, that was the root of the issue. Three of the four cups were leaking. I had to machine the surface inside the head to get them to seat. There is a chance they could be leaking again, but it runs much rougher than it did with that issue. I started it up last night, and it is definitely bubbling into the radiator. We cracked the lines on the fuel pump, and even though it was running rough, it was still firing on all cylinders. It seemed like 2 & 3 were weaker than 1 & 4. I am going to hopefully limp it over to the shop tonight and start to tear into it. I am reeeeaaaalllyyyy hoping I don't have a cracked head. :beatsme That's what the previous owner ran into, thus the reman head on it now. The reman did come from Cat, though...
Good timing with your post above as I just reread your entire saga again. I noticed that you tightened your precom chambers with a pipe wrench. I don't know the torque on them without looking it up, but it will be somewhere between 150 and 200 lb ft. You can't get to that without the splined tool. It's cheap on Ebay. Don't use any sealing stuff on the precom washer either, it will seal without it. You need to put NeverSeize on the threads though. Did you inspect them for pinholes or use new ones? If not, do it now. Try to rule out leaking precoms first before pulling the head. The reason the machine's been running hotter than normal all this time is because you're getting exhaust gases into the coolant. Now the coolant is getting into the combustion chamber. I need to look at the video again, but it has to be blowing white smoke. It could be causing a slight miss at idle too causing your shake. I wouldn't think that it cracked the head unless you really boiled it over and had the gauge in the red as they're pretty tough. Did you scrape all the carbon out of your counterbores before you installed the liners, as a wire wheel won't do it? Did you check the main bearings when you had the pan off, like tctractors is onto? That engine has balancers in it(did you get them back in time after the inframe?) and it never did feel the same to me(not as vibration free) as a 3306.
I feel honored that you read it again! Fortunately, it did not boil over. This is where I start to feel sheepish, admitting that I tried to get it going without fully rebuilding while I was there.... ops I did not pull the front cover on the in-frame. The balancers were not touched, so they sould still be in time. As to the goo on the chambers, I did seal the threads as well as the mating surfaces. They are spec'd to 150±10. They should be pretty close. There were a few tiny pinholes on the casting that I could not get out, if I remember correctly. That does make sense if the cups are leaking again, but it is running A LOT rougher than when they were loose before. I suppose I can pull them out to see what's up. I might pull the guts out of them first to see if I can spot coolant in the chamber. When I had it apart, I did scrape everything down. I spot-checked a few of the mains, but, no I did not check every one. Yes, I know I should have... :Banghead I do have the adapter ordered. Well worth the $12. Should have looked into that before, as well. :Banghead:Banghead Live and Learn.
If you pulled the oil pump, they can get out of time. Nothing wrong with just checking things out and inspecting instead of rebuilding. I've done it several times. That is what you're looking for...those tiny pinholes sometimes go all the way through. I use a very small wire to probe. It can make it run bad too...and it will pressurize the cooling system. One dead cylinder is 25% of your power. Why not narrow it down more and crack the injectors one at a time? You should be able to tell which cylinders(s) is/are affected. I just watched the video again twice on a different computer with good audio and I hear a definite miss and I see whitish smoke. I think you have a simple problem with a chamber leak and a bad nozzle possibly.
The pump stayed put. I only pulled the pickup tube. I was guilty of not checking #1 main because of that... I did crack the lines, and there was a definite change with each cylinder, but seemingly more prominent on 1 & 4, meaning the middle two may be the issue. I'm hoping to have it figured out yet this week, so I can have the parts on their way while I'm in Vegas next week :naughty
The Lanchester balance shafts are something that needs to be timed correctly also they need to be in good nick, the gear cut angle is different on both shafts so you cannot put the left shaft in the right spot etc, as they spin at double crank speed they need a drop of oil pressure to keep them happy, if you have removed the oil pump these shafts would become off kilter, the timing location is via the sump, 2 bolts screw up through the sump plate into dimples in the shaft with the engine No1 TDC, then with the oil pump dowel knocked down its all bolted home followed with a double check, if the shafts were out you would struggle to sit in the beast for an hour due to the shake, Lanchester Brothers invented the Damper (Dampener) the thing on the nose of the crank also the balance shaft system to smooth out the engines in their cars, the video of the engine running sounded to me like the crank was about to calve down, once was enough for me as it was to painfull, I hope its just something simple like a split O ring or a chamber washer, but if the engine has not locked up over night, and the thing was spouting gun smoke (Black Smoke) its not only a cylinder head issue. tctractors
Thanks for the info on the balance shafts. I did not have the pump off to lose time, but I did look at the book, and it has absolutely nothing covering the timing of the balance shafts... :beatsme I did clear a spot in the shop to park it back inside to take a more in-depth look. I went to go fire it up, and clunk. It stopped rotating after a thud. Not a metal thud, but a thud of the piston with too much water sitting on top of it coming up to the head. So, I start cracking the nuts loose on the injector nozzles to see where the water comes from. I was half way through them and it rolled over. I did not find the culprit. After it rolled over freely, we put the coals to it and fired it up: Startup Video After it was parked back in the surgery room, We pulled off the sheet metal and started yanking out the injection lines and nozzles. We ended up taking an air nozzle and checked each cylinder. After rotating everything around to get the valves closed for each cylinder test, we found #3 to leak into the coolant system at a mere 5 psi. The other three were in good shape. So please help me brainstorm what it could be. • Cracked Liner • Loose Prechamber • Cracked Head • Head Gasket My buddy came up with a pretty slick idea to test a little further. Thread a plug into the precup threads after it is pulled. have a hole in the middle of it to pressure the chamber and see if air is coming around the threads, through a crack up top, or if bubbles come from below to indicate a gasket or liner. Thoughts?
I ended up dinking with the crawler for a while last night, and I am hoping I am on the right track. First note worth sharing - sometimes I have to learn the hard way... It appears d9gdon looks to be the winner of this issue at the moment. The #3 precup was not sealing well. That goo was not a good idea, as it got too hot and either disappeared or turned black (I should have listened to you, Nige !). I cleaned off the remnants and put it back together with the right tools . I was able to get it sealed up and holding pressure from the air nozzle stuffed down the injector hole, so I am hoping it was that simple of an issue! (The #3 chamber was not very tight, either.) Once that chamber was fixed, I ended up pulling out the other three and cleaned the goo off of them and tightened them back up. So far, it is looking good. Hopefully that solves the white smoke issue and the fact that I ended up with more water in the oil pan than the radiator while it was sitting. Since I had them handy, I went ahead and installed new nozzles since I was right there. I am surprised the old ones even functioned to begin with, considering that nasty stuff that came out of the fuel tank!! Also, I went through and checked valve lash. This may have been the answer to the smoking and loss of power when hot. I had one valve that the lock nut had worked loose and tightened up the lash to nothing. I found another that was pretty tight as well. I ended up resetting all the valves while I was there. I fired it off after filling the radiator back up, making sure the crankcase held only oil , and reinstalling the valve cover, hoping for the best. It fired off once it was bled, but the poor gal was shaking like crazy. I cringed and just about gave up in frustration. After shutting it down and walking away from it for a while, I decided to start it off again, and it seemed to run smoother, so I ramped up the throttle gradually and it seemed to start calming down. I jacked it a few times and everything was seeming fine. No funky smoke, just a puff of black when hitting the throttle hard. No knocks from the engine. Shut it down again to check everything out. No bubbles in the radiator while running or off. No leaks. No funny noises when barring the engine back and forth. I started it one more time and it seemed normal, but I am gunny. I have the covers and belly pans back on it, so I am going to run it out of the shop later today and see what happens. I need to run it for a bit and see, but I am hoping it is all better. If there is still an issue, I am afraid it will have to go out to pasture for a while. I am getting too tied up with the new house, and I am told the house is the priority! rofessor
Cool that it was simple, a tight valve will tighten ever more hot, the problem with the cups is not a new one but a hard one to diagnose being as you had had it all apart prior.
I am not out of the woods, yet. I finally got a chance to work the machine a little last night. I am glad my teeth are attached firmly in my skull, or they would have rattled out. It starts right up, the chambers are holding, and there are no weird mechanical noises, but there is definitely an imbalance between cylinders. I am afraid I might have burnt a valve when my lash closed up on me. The machine has a decent amount of power, but it seems to have a different tune to the airflow, and it will rattle every thing loose that is not torqued down! My air breather nut on top of the precleaner started spinning, the clamps for the air filter came loose, and the sheet metal was a talkin'. One odd thing worth mentioning is the black smoke, or lack thereof. Beforehand, it would puff a bit here and there when grunting or ramping throttle. With the new nozzles, it seems to run a bit leaner. Snappy, but leaner. As far as the other smoke, it does not smoke any colors out of the exhaust. At least I did not see the oil mark rise up! Someday, I will have all these gremlins chased out.... Maybe I should have painted it already to make it run better.
Getting there ................ The trick is NOT to follow the example set by Christopher Columbus, who set off not knowing where he was going, when he got there didn't know where he was, and came back not knowing where he'd been. And the best part he did it all using someone else's money.........
It sure is less painful if it is someone else's money! Just another day and another dollar spent! Speaking of spending money, does anyone know the thread size of the glow plugs? I'm looking to run a compression test on the engine, and I want to make sure I get the right adapter ordered.
Seems like the compression tester I think we still have uses a "dumby" injector nozzel and the tester hooks on where the fuel line would go. I'll check this afternoon. No sense doing it on my time, let the company pay me to look for you!
Now that I can see the top of your bucket, we are as you thought in the same situation, need a spill over lip added. This was the bent up unit: Not much material but enough to prevent spill over onto the hood. The original was 9" tall and was of 3/16' material, 2" boundary edge +/-
Hopefully you can find the source of vibration and not have to pull the head. As to the lip, I am going to fab mine from 3/16" steel and 2x2x 3/16 angle iron, back brace it with some 1/4"x 2" straps down onto the bucket back three to five places depending on how much work I wish to entail! Old one mashed quite readily per the previous owner, he dropped a tree on it.
I did find an adapter on the internet for the dummy nozzle, so it should be coming. Hopefully it will fit cheap test gauges. It has not gotten any better or worse, and I have a few diesel and heavy diesel friends that have taken a listen to it, and they are stumped, too. I'm just about aggravated enough to either hang a price tag on it or take the engine all the way down out of frame and kick its @$$. The only caveat is the latter is not going to happen in the near future. That is a great picture to reference! It seems like by bucket is so shallow that it will hardly hold enough to need that spillover lip!
How about putting up a video of it so we can have a listen? I'm curious now.
I will do so, hopefully this evening. Anything special in particular that you would like to see?
You did a pretty good job on the video last time, just make it so we can hear it. You had that algae problem in the beginning in the fuel tank. I wonder if it's showing up in the pump. Have you isolated which cylinder is acting up...and how do you know it's the engine and not the torque causing the vibration? What about engine mounts? If you can, show which type of injector pump you have on the machine.
kb, I know what you mean by shallow, on my old Allis it is a full load just with the bucket, it holds just under 2 yards heaped by guesstimate then it gets really heavy. I have the bucket off the donor, soon as shop is done and house well underway I will move it into position to rebuild and swap to it. My tubing down the right lift arm is pretty well track eaten anyway and seeps thru some crappy wire feed welds the previous owner put to it so won't be out much. Once I put the GP on it may rebuild to old 4/1. I am in the need for GP bucket corner(side edge) teeth off a early 955, preferably a H, I have a set of cutting lip teeth(6) that I bough a year or so ago but would like to add corners to match. These teeth are kind of odd, they mount with a thru bolt(both upper and lower ears) near to the leading edge and then only a support bolt to the back(no lower ear), will post a photo when I get back to the farm to dig them up.
Here is the video. I dropped my phone in the belly halfway through the video. Take a look at the air filter. It rattled loose a second time. Towards the end of the video, I put my phone against the structure of the machine. That is the shaking. Video http://youtu.be/tS-gF8QtXrY
That's one thing I'll give this 955L, it'll handle the weight with no problem. But if I'm loading loose dirt, I can work circles around it with the backhoe. I just can't jamb enough dirt into the bucket. And without teeth, it grumbles quite a bit trying to scrape a bucket full. It seems to peel better with the clam open pulling backwards. It would probably help if I get some more seat time, too. I'm in the same boat as you with the house and shed. They seem to take up every waking minute of my free time at the moment!
Is the vibration maybe the balance shafts out of time. One tooth makes them shake pretty bad.
I once had to sort a CAT 215 that had a bit of a shake but only at a set speed, it would send the shake into the hand controls in the cab, this I found to be due to the balance shafts to be set incorrectly, they must have been assembled by someone like it? I also had another 330C series engine with a bent rod after combustion chamber dramas that also had the "DT's" this engine needs poking around in. tctractors
I find the mistake most people make is they pin the balance shafts and then install the oil pump which puts each shaft out one tooth as the pump pulls up into place. You need to roll the shafts back half a hole and then put the pump in . Once the pump is in the balance holes should line up.
I think somebody got the balancer shafts out of time at some point too. An easy fix after you practice one more time on getting those belly pans off. That's a sleeve metering type injector pump, but I don't think it has anything to do with your problem anymore.
Could be a bent rod.
I've had a few more ears on the beast, and the general consensus, with the events leading up to the present, feels that a bent rod just may be the culprit after the chamber fiasco and hydro. This could be an aggravated wound from before I brought it home, as the PO could have done the same thing with the first round of loose chambers. I will rattle it back over to the shop to pull it down and find out what ails it. With the oil pan back off, I will take a look at the balancers to see if I can see the orientation. Maybe, I can sneak away from the house project for a night or two and find what the fuss is about. Not enough hours in the day... :dizzy
I am so curious about the orientation of the balancer shafts that I would like to jump in on this conversation. How do you know when you have the correct alignment on the balancer shafts?
Still haven't done anything to the motor yet, but I thought about trading it for this new machine. If you can't read the tag, this is a hand built model I had seen at a toy show today. They wanted a modest $7500 for the 45lb mantle piece.
I have now, a year later, finally opened it up! I have been consumed by building this new house/money pit and it's still not completely finished. We have made the ultimate mistake of moving in before we were 100% finished. So we are hovering at 95% and will probably be for the next 40 years... I have to at least finish up the outside to keep the funny looks down. The bright side is the pre cups haven't dumped any water in the chambers after a year! There is some more good news. I found the problem of the shakes. The bad news is that it is an unfortunate failure, as I have found that the three center mains have spun. I was aggravated enough I did not see what lies under any of the other caps and had to walk away for a bit. I'll post pics when I come back to it later tonight. The crank is not in bad shape at all. The caps have a pretty good lip on the bottom. I guess the water in the oil got the best of it.
Kb, I thought that you had fallen off a hole where you was digging around in the front yard. Hope you can salvage the crank and all ends well. I don't know if you have been keeping up with the thread but I did do the complete engine overhaul on the 951 and it seems to have come out well. The old gal is in the midst of being fitted up with new sprocket rims, SALT track chains and a paint job. I have missed your posting, welcome back.
Thanks, Nitelite! I've got a lot of catching up to do. I been investing what free time I have into sleep for a while. I'm hoping to start digging myself out of a hole soon!
What is FREE TIME?
That is all the time you spend working on your machine that you are not paid for and cannot charge for. As opposed to the time at a cat dealership which is most certainly not free LOL
That is the truth!!! I need to find a lest costly hobby!!
So I finally mustered the courage to see what else lies inside the beast. Caps 2-3-4 on the mains are spun. None of the bearings are welded to the crank at least! They all spin freely around it! Mains 1 & 5 are fine. Not making a whole lot of sense. But here I am trying to decide the best path to take. I was almost talked in to cutting the caps and reinterpolating the profile in the caps and see how it would plastigauge out. I considered it for a while, but couldn't do it, not knowing how bad the block was. I went on the hunt to see about finding a good block. I looked around and I was finding ones for $3k for a used, checked bare block. Not enticing. I really contemplated about "making" what I had work again. I was being talked into calling the dozer yard that pressed my springs, but I figured they were going to be around the same numbers. I found out the next day, from the one that was talking me into calling, that the dozer yard is going to auction the end of this month, so I better call!! Well, crap. So, call I shall - and to my surprise, they have a block! And for $500! So the only catch is I had to find out what all I need. ASAP!! They are closing this week so I have to see what hard parts (if any) I will also need. So, after siding the house past dark Saturday, some friends decided to be quite nice and gave me a hand yanking out the heart of the beast. Sounds like a fun Saturday night, right?? Well, we got it out of there rather painlessly, so I really can't complain. I borrowed a 5-ton A-frame gantry and set it over the dozen, which is still parked over the pit. It actually worked so well, we did not pull the radiator and nose from the loader! We stripped the block down a ways and dropped the crank. Everything is in good shape except for the caps. The crank needs a polish, and the bearing bore in the block is actually in good shape as well. I could have possibly polished the crank on the machine and went after a block with a window in it to steal off the caps, but we're this far into it, so I'm going to build it a bit closer to "right". I will be strongly considering new liners and pistons this go, since my main reason to use the old ones last time was to see how the rest of the machine fared.
Wow, $500 for a block sounds like a steal. Is your engine a 3304?
Yes it is! I am hoping to get the block picked up tomorrow and start the process of cleaning soon. I may do what you did and turn it yellow as I go.
It's not a hobby. It's an incureable disease that many of us have. You can only get another fix to fix.
Tried a 955H, what an amazing machine, tons of power
I claim metal (not mental) instability, does get in the blood and won't leave. Me, I am addicted to old Allis units, love the simplicity, ease to work on as opposed to most Cats, remind me of years gone when I worked them as new tractors. Cannot seem to stop working on the damn things regardless how bad it hurts the pocket.
Hey Guys, I was following your progress, I thought I would chime in, I am in the process of finishing a steering clutch on my 75 931. My first machine and I think I have Developed the FEVER also, I have rebuilt almost all cylinders on the backhoe attachment and the loader, as for the motor mine has only 300hrs on a cat rebulid by the previous owner, Its Interesting to me reading about your motor work, I don,t know much about motor rebuilding ,I just have general motor knowledge, Thanks for documenting the work, Hope it goes well, Mike M. P.S. This Forum is Great!
kb, take lots of pictures for re assembly and post some now and then.
I think you all are correct. I threaten to use this one and sell it, but I think we all know better what actually will happen!!
I really didn't know what, "Heavy Metal" was until I joined this forum!
I picked up my new-to-me block yesterday. I think it should be ok. It was in a 71J 955L that got a bit toasty. It did burn off some of the paint, but it looked pretty good overall. I am going to tank it and see how it comes out. I was thrown off a bit when I picked it up. It looks like it has a Mitsubishi casting mark on the side. I did mic the crank and the mains are going to have to be ground. Rods are still in spec.
That must have been a replacement block then. It was originally produced on the 2nd of November 2000. What's the Part Number at the far end of the photo..? All I can see is "2P9---"
I forgot to mention, I got this block from these guys by the skin of my teeth, as they sold their remaining inventory this Monday. I shouldn't even mention this, but there were a lot of good parts that found their way into the melting pot
That block is a Field Replacement for whatever was originally in the machine. So you have a hunk of iron in that photo that despite the fact that it's an "old generation" engine is nowhere near as old as you might think. For any Parts Service you need quote 1N-3574 Cylinder Block Group. This was fitted from engine S/N 78P57460-Up.
Nige, forgive my ignorance, but are you telling me news that is good, bad, or indifferent? Is this compatible with the internals from the old block?
It's a direct replacement for the original. What happens is as things are improved then newer Part Number come into being. The Parts Manual will say something like "7N-6552 Cylinder Block Group. For Field Replacement order 1N-3574". So in other words the Field Replacement is effectively the newer improved version of what you had originally but is now beyond repair. Your replacement block will be compatible with the former block, there may be a few detail differences in things like gaskets, seals, etc. You just need to be careful that's all. Also if you need any parts for the block then when ordering refer to 1N-3574 Block Gp. now you've "upgraded" you can't necessarily use the Part Number of the block that's listed in your Parts Manual.
Thank you!! You're always a wealth of information!
Nige, I talked to the parts supplier and told him about the 1N-3574. He said that the block comes up as needing a spacer plate and mine is c'bored. Thoughts? He sent me a copy of SMHS7541 and SEBD9025 Looks like 71J4007. Isn't that missing a digit?
It's not missing a digit for that era of machine. The full Serial Number nowadays would be 71J04007 but back then if the S/N had not gone above 10,000 then the zero before the 4 would be left out.
So, how bad is it, doc?? New block says .020 over, and I am going to have to go .020 under on the crank... Anyone ever run into this before? I did not want to see this on the replacement block...
Alright, so I have been calling around. I can get bearings .020 over on the shell size, but can only go .010 under on the crank. So the block is usable to someone, but not me with this crank if the crank is forecasted to clean up .020 under. I can have my old block line bored for the same coin for which I bought the new block. The salvage yard will take back the old block, but since they are shutting up shop, it will most likely end up in the dumpster. If I had the extra change in my pocket, I'd keep it around for a rainy day, especially knowing its future if I return it. Anyone want to buy a block and save it from euthanasia??:thumbdown:thumbdown
Can you maybe find another crank that will go standard on the journals instead of .010" under..?
A good shop can build up a crank in some cases and grind it back to STD. May want to check out that option. Rick
You will regret letting that block go for just 500 dollors I reakon
I really think that crank will clean up at .010 under. I know the shop I take it to likes to play it safe and take it a bit further. There are no gouges in the crank and the smallest measurement is .006 under. It should clean up. I am going to talk to them Monday and see if they will at least give it a shot. If that can happen I'll still have a savable block in the end to put on the shelf
If the smallest current measurement of the crank is .006" under then it will almost certainly clean up to .010" under.
Just talked to the grind shop this morning and found out the crank is bent .060! Wowzers! They are going to see what they can do to get it back in spec. If they can get it staight, they are going to grind it and see if they can get it cleaned at .010 under.
I may have a procedure for straightening that crank. If you need it send me a PM with your email address. If nothing else you may be able to use it to understand and/or question the grinding shop about how they measured the total bend of the crank as being .060". Unless the grinding shop can get the crank dead straight (or within less than maybe .001-.002" of being straight) then you can forget my comment above about it cleaning up easily to .010" under.
I would be interested in the procedure. I am passing the point of no return on getting by block refunded, so I will either have to have this crank strait, or go for a new one. I am starting to lose faith I will ever get this gal back going again... :Banghead
PM me your email address.
Something doesn't seem to gel here.... (at least according to the book I'm looking at which may well be wrong). 955K 71J04007 comes up as having a D330c originally, which would make sense as the machine serial number is stamped into the block as was the way at the time. The changeover to the 3304 (43V) was at serial 71J04558 when they became 955L series.
The block castings match. The only thing I noticed different was a oil drain on the side of the block that was in a plate on this new one. I am at crunch time, so today is the last day I can take the block back or keep it. It did come out of an L, but I know there is a lot of confusion between the transition from the K to the small track L machines.
Send a PM to tctractors. He'll know straight away if there is any reason why the used block you have bought won't be suitable to rebuild your current engine.
kb, your engine that you removed from the frame is the 3304 PC engine, that duff block that you bought in good faith needs returning to the owners as it stands a good chance of becoming a Mill Stone, so let them that owned it hang on to it, the only reason they had it on the shelf was its something No one wanted to mess with, you need to be looking for the big lump that runs a bit as the parts cost can soon build up. good luck tctractors
I am going to take your advice and send the overbore block to the grave. Thanks for the input!
I took the block back. It was a bit cringeworthy watching it come off the back of the truck and drop right into the dumpster.
Time to knock the dust off this thread again... I have finally got the gumption (and a little time and funds) to get this machine back in working order. I have stripped down the block that came out of the machine and brought it in to get it line bored. It should be savable. We will find out soon. As soon as there is a green light on the block, I will be ordering a crank and a major overhaul kit and get this thing back to life. I hope.
Good to see you back at it kb9, and I thought that I worked slow????
...
Still sitting in pieces... The block shop may get to line boring this week. Glad I am not in a hurry!! I am going to wait until I get a green light from him before I order the rest of the parts. Anyone have a good crank laying around? Found some new ones not horribly priced.
Well, After half a coon's age, I finally have a bock back!!! They were able to cut caps and move the bore a smidgen (0.007") and got it to clean up. I am now going to get the crank ordered and get this project restarted. Again.
While your waiting on the crank I remove all the plugs from that block and get out your gun cleaning kit and clean out all the bores. Are you going to be replacing the cam bearings? If so while the bearings are out make sure the bores for oil to them are also spotless. Any chance the shop that did the linebore job has checked the counter bores for the liners. Be best to be sure they are right before you spend too much time cleaning as if they do need to be cut you will need to clean things again.
I also see the head dowels still in, has the deck been checked for true? May need a few thousandths of mild cleanup to be certain the head gasket does not leak.
True, a light cut off the top deck with a quick touch-up on the counter bores to get them to the right height would go a long way towards making this a good solid engine rebuild.
I plan on checking the deck after I give it a good clean to see how far out it is. I hadn't had an issue the last time i put a head gasket on, but it definitely would not hurt to look!! I plan on putting all new bearings in the block. They were not in bad shape, but I am this far into it, so it looks like it is going to get a major.
I don't think I could work on this thing any slower but I'm finally getting to clean the block up and getting ready to put some new bearings in it. I have went through all of my parts and I think I have everything except somehow I am missing a set of main bearings.
Block looks decent! should have it running in no time.
I used the wrong button on my phone for the pictures.
That there is creative use of a light duty engine stand!
I was waiting for a comment on that!! Don't worry, I will not leave in on that one when I start loading it up! Especially with my toes underneath!
I had to bring my base plate up to 1 inch thick and replace the arms with 1.5x1.5 solid bar to hold up a packard engine.
I wish I had some of your knowledge AND tenacity! Very talented from where I sit. Best of luck sent to you kb9.
just read this thread from the beginning, what persistence kb9tci, it will all pay off in the end. I am in the middle of replacing the rear main seal in a Cat 225 excavator with the 3304, it's my first excavator and has been fun working on it. goodluck with everything, house included
Hats off to you kb9tci. You've inspired me to get a plan of attack on my 955k tensioner spring repair. Thanks for doc/posting, and thanks to those that share their knowledge and experience as well.
Maybe sometime soon I'll actually finish this project!! Thanks for the kind words!
This has been the slowest going project that I think I have ever had! I have been keeping at it in very stretched out spurts. I got going on it again with the block to find out I had to take it back down and send it to the machine shop again, as there was a mess-up with the line boring... After a good re-bore, I got the bearings pushed in everywhere after making a few homemade driver tools. I ended up having the rods checked while I was at it, just to make sure. All has been looking good, with the biggest pain of just finding everything back! A late evening here and there is about all I have been able to put into this, but it is getting annoyingly close! We got the motor sat back in the cradle, with the help of a gantry and a couple hoists to slip it under the loader arms with the radiator still installed. We just placed the head back on last night, timed the pump, installed cover plates and started routing lines, so the next steps it to check alignment of the engine. Maybe it will be done by Christmas?!?
Nothing fun of engine R&R
Well, how long has it been? Three years and some change?!? A few years, a new house, another child, and a few more projects later, I FINALLY HAVE IT RUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!
And I see you also have one of those Ulrich nine million pound useless buckets as I do!! I still have to wonder why they made such a convoluted piece of architecture as these! Good to see is up and functional regardless the shovel on it! My Ulrich is currently collecting dust.
I know how life can get in the way of projects! Probably took me close to five years to assemble a little motorcycle engine. But when they are finally done and are running it does feel good.
Yes, that dang thing... I am not in love with it at all. The capacity is quite unimpressive for the size. It is nice for brush clearing though. If I could find a GP bucket, I would love to have one!
I would make that a priority, will take a lot of wear off the undercarriage!! Might check with Chartrand if have a repairable or just a available for that machine. Can always add a grapple later using the feed lines. I was astonished how much HP I lost just having the heavy bustard on mine. I now know of Three of these and two are now removed from the machines(third is in CA was on another 7G Allis)
Also not yours does as mine where the weight of the bucket rolls it back when parked. Piddly poor over heavy mechanism!!
Noted not NOT
I finally got to use the crawler for a while. The old gal is running great!
It made quick work of clearing an overgrown waterway. Unfortunately, the garbage 4-1 bucket let me down when I was a little overzealous with a black locust. I’m really not too excited to try and fix it. Anyone know of some good salvage yard leads?
Yikes, There's been an add up for awhile here on Craig's list, they have a 955 bucket, but they want 3 grand for it, it ain't selling at that !!
Ouch, that stings! You may be better off disconnecting the hydraulics and welding the clam shut if you need to use it while you locate a new bucket....
I couldn’t help myself. I am going to have to show it who’s boss.
View attachment 187409 View attachment 187410 View attachment 187411 I couldn’t help myself. I am going to have to show it who’s boss.
The side plate is fixed. Here’s a picture of the weld, mid process. I’ve been pulled away from it for a while with the honey-do list and some health issues. As soon as the cylinder is repaired, it’s all ready to put back together!
In the midst of not having the time to work on it, I perused Rock and Dirt and found something I needed...
wow lotsa new tooffies
It looks as though that weld was done with solid wire and a mig machine. I have never liked a mig for work of that type. Have had a lot better luck with dual shield wire or using 7018 or 8018 for those types of repairs. Those little dimples on the end of the bead steup stress concentrators. You may have better luck than me with those types of repairs though.
It was a solid wire fix. I was out of 7018, so I put in a couple good roots after a preheat and topped it off. When I welded the reverse side, I cut down the bead at the ends and wrapped the weld around from the reverse. Whenever I was repairing this, I saw a good amount of stress micro cracks at the flame cut edge. One of those micro cracks was the culprit of the mess. I’m going to get this one fixed up and then switch off the bucket to the general purpose one.
You will like the GP once its on, old girl will be a dirt digging ballerina as so front end light. Both us need to work on the spoil upper lips on our GPs and me the one on that Ulrich MP.
Too late for this repair I know, but it may prove useful to somebody in future.... Welding to the open end of a plate it's obviously difficult to avoid stress risers when starting and stopping a weld bead. Run out tabs tacked on to the plate at one or both ends of the weld allow both the arc to be struck and for each weld bead to be terminated outside the boundaries of the structure that is being welded. The tabs get cut off afterwards using a grinder with a cutting disc. The length of the tab, highlighted in yellow, should be as a minimum equal to the thickness of the plate being welded and preferably closer to double the thickness.
Depending on the type of work you do with it, you will likely find that you will mostly use the GP bucket more, higher volume, lighter & less to stick in it when wet. We have a GP on our 955L & really like it. Re the hard wire welds, I have seen some heavy repairs done with hard wire & they held just fine with the settings being right. More forgiveness with the flux core settings that's all. Another thing, ever notice that hard wire welds are harder to grind down? The flux core or 7018 stick welds seem somewhat softer for some reason...…….
For future reference Cambrian Equipment Sales in Winnipeg MB Canada has at least one of these being dismantled. 204 667 2867 Cheers
nige wish i had seen this post a couple days ago before i put this back together. thanks can use that idea in future
Apologies for the poor quality of the photo, but this is something taken from a document dated almost 20 years ago showing how a crack in the the rail of a haul truck chassis was welded.
I tried to adjust that picture a bit as I was having trouble seeing it on my monitor, not sure if this helps. That crack looks like one I recall we had on a 769C that was never successfully repaired. Wish I had this picture for the welder to see back then! The attempt on our frame amounted to a quick grinding of the crack with 4 inch grinders and one or two passes with 7018. Looked "pretty" when done but looks only get you so far!
I need to find some more time to catch up on this forum! I didn’t see all the new replies until now. I got this welded up a little bit more. I’m getting ready to put it together and test it before it ends up in the fence row until another day. Nige, that is a good point to share about the stressers. It makes perfect sense. I had to clean up a lot of previous repairs that were definitely cobbled to get this back together. I also repacked the cylinder for the fun of it when I cut off the end and welded the end back on straight.
I couldn’t help it. I brought up some trees that I knocked over before I broke the bucket. I had to try it out after I fixed it and before I take it off!
Looks great!! The GP bucket will be considerably lighter.
You can drop those trees off in my side yard! Always need more firewood!
When you swap buckets add a little support to the back of the Ulrich, I hung a piece of channel across under the lower pins bosses at bucket floor level as these bustards tend to be back heavy.
Good idea! What did you do for the lines on the loader frame? I’m thinking about machining a few plugs to go on the hard lines.
I actually bought the high dollar disconnect couplers. connected the lines on the boom and set the bucket on the ground with a M/F coupler set on it. Should probably put one coupler on line and one hard to boom then similar on bucket. This way IF I so choose to set a forks and grapple I can as hydraulics are ready and can QD the attachments. Allis pins are slip fit unlike Cat. And yeah the Ugly mug is mine.
It has been a long time since I posted on here! I got the buckets swapped this summer and put the gal to work this summer and fall at the farm and over at the in-laws. I didn't think to take any pictures of the process of building the brush mountains. This new bucket makes a different machine out if it, for sure. I cheated on the old hydraulic lines. I ended up making my own plugs for the 4-1 bucket. I popped a lift hose this year, and thankfully never thrown it away. I cut off the metal ends and welded a plug in each end to make sealing plugs for the hard lines on the loader arms!
I did pull a dumdum and got in a fight with a tree branch this fall, though. I wacked the muffler with a limb and cracked the elbow off the turbo outlet. There was not a lot of meat left around the area for the sealing ring, but I made it work. That was a bit of a PITA to get off of the turbo. I ended up splitting it with a cutoff wheel in a few places to get if apart. A torch was handy to get the new one swelled up enough to get it back together.
Good to see the old girl earning her keep. How are those resealed track rollers holding up.?
Not a one of them has leaked a drop! I did knock the inner lip off of one of them this fall at the father in laws whilst pushing on a hillside. To be expected, I'm sure...
Some nice work with repairs
I haven't been on HEF in ages!! The ol' cat is still at it! Going to have to bring it in the shop for some head work soon. Dang pre-cups still having fits. Looking at a new head...
Had been curious where were!
I assumed that all was good in the track loader world seeing as you hadn't been back.
Life has a way of getting busy sometimes! The 955 has been all over the countryside the past few years. Clearing brush and overgrowth, digging ponds, and moving hills. I’ve been fighting leaking cups quite a bit, so I’m bringing it in for a new head.
Had a rainy Sunday today, so we brought it in the shop and pulled the head. I’ve already got the parts in order, so I’m hoping it’ll be back together by next weekend. I’m hoping to clean up some waterways yet this year. I ordered a bare head, so I dressed the valves. Supposedly, this was a reman head before I got it, and the valves look to agree.
I was hoping to have it running by now, but UPS had a booboo this week.
That's not good.
Big OOOPS! Would love to say I have not done similarly, but been there done that.
Kb9tci - thank you VERY much for documenting (with pics!!) the various projects you tackled!!! What a great read!!! And gives me a glimpse into the “joys” I’m about to have on rehab’n a ‘67 D5, which “only” shows 1035 on service meter...to be cont...
Thanks for taking the time to check out my little story! I definitely learned a wealth of knowledge along the way with this great little community. Good luck on your endeavors! There is quite a collection of information along with many masters of the trade (myself excluded) that is invaluable.
I came searching for this thread because I knew it had some photos I wanted for a reply elsewhere. Is the tractor still earning its keep.?
Nige! I hope all is well! I have strayed away too far from HEF with the busy time of life. I am actually on the computer ordering filters for the machine, and I decided to come back to my roots of where my CAT journey started by paying a visit here. The ol' 955L is still in use at the premises, stored inside a cozy barn when not in demand, surrounded by a bunch of Oliver tractors while it hibernates. I actually just brought it out to grease it and get the fuel primer replaced, as it started leaking this winter and lost prime. I am putting it to use this week to help a neighbor get a 100+ year old oak tree off of one of his outbuildings after our last wind storm. I will try and snag a picture or two.
just make sure the tree doesn't drop on your head..........