I work for a grading contractor that owns a CAT 977 that they inherited when they bought out another grading company 30 years ago. Anyway they used the 977 very little over the first few years since they already had newer 953 and 963s. I have been told that the 977 always would fire right up after sitting for long periods even years as long as they put new batteries in it. Anyway the last time they used it was 1996 doing hurricane cleanup using the large hydraulic winch that is on the back of the 977. The owner and main operator here said it ran fine when they parked it but they never needed it again so it has sat in our yard here in the same spot for the last 21 years. Anyway now they are getting some more equipment and have decided the 977 needs to go. They have asked an equipment broker we use to find a buyer for it. i have my doubts that he is really interested in spending his time on something that might be scrap or parts after sitting for 21 years. If the broker isn't interested in it I think my boss would give it to me if I would haul it away. We have a 350+ acre family farm and something like this would be handy at times. I know that the machine is way bigger than what we need and 953 or similar would be a much better fit, but free is hard to pass up sometimes. So the question is do you guys think it would be worth it to sink some time and money into seeing if I can get the old beast running again? It appears to be in decent shape for a 50+ year old machine. The paint in flaking bad from sitting in the weather and one cylinder looks like it has been leaking/seeping for a while. One of my biggest concerns is that the track chain on one side is kinked pretty good. The operator here said that it did that once before long ago and they used our CAT 330 to knock/push the kink out. Not to sure about how that works. Other than the kink the chains and sprockets don't look very worn. So what do you guys think? By the way i am not looking to spend 10k+ to get it usable so if it won't crank with new batteries, fresh fuel, and some tinkering i may just pass on it too. Thoughts?
977 is a beast, what series H,K, L? H would be seriously in jeopardy of parts availability as is become considerably obsolete, Still lots of them around and still working. K&L lots of parts and materials still at hand. Roughly 38-42000 lb machine, a little awkward to get used to but once in hand can be quite useful. A kink in dry pin rails is just from remaining on a idler or sprocket long enough for rust to set the link pin to bushing or bushing to link ears and should work out.
Not sure on the model I think it might be a H. Where can I find a serial number plate?
Looks like a 977H.
Holy cow! Look at the sharp angles on those grousers! One hour of work on my rocky acres they'd have more wear than that! Awhile back I had an opportunity to get a running 977 in worse shape than that for about 3 grand. It didn't fit with my needs at the time and it ended up going to the scrap yard. I kick myself for passing that up. Free (well, almost free) is even better! I'd say figure out the scrap price, less hauling, and give it a shot but don't go over that amount. Wouldn't have anything to lose and maybe a lot to gain.
Yeah, that's an H. Serial numbers are on the rear left of the transmission case (though that one is probably covered by the winch mount), and the rear left side of the engine block just below the head. Should start with 53A.
As noted H, rail shoes are in great shape, should check the wear on pins and bushings before get too enthusiastic with dry pins a little rust goes a long way in eating the wear rate up. If a freebie get it running and haul it before they know its gone. Parts will be scarce but if you behave with it should last awhile and at the price well worth it.
This one has pedal steering so I think that makes this a 1964-1966 model.
Wow.. that thing is a BEAST.. & w/ 350 acr farm.. you could make your money back in just buryin bodies..Lol
sweet machine I grew up on one. Wish dad still had it... I wouldnt mind buying another just to have it to play around
Yes, Pedal Steer, oil cooled Brakes and Steering Clutches (1964-up)(s/n 53A4797-up) Power shift with D333a Turbo engine (4-1/2" bore) Pony motor start standard or Direct Electric Start (optional)
I have 2 of these things and absolutely love them! The tracks on that one look good, and overall looks nice and straight. Both of mine had sat for a long time since the owner passed away and both fired up with fresh batteries. Parts can be bought from Offroad Equipment, haven't had any issues finding parts (yet) for mine... Too bad it's not closer, I'd take it off your hands in a flash! The hydraulic winch is a big bonus too, one of my machines has one and so far I haven't found anything yet that it won't pull! Keep us posted.
I'd be tempted to just give it a try just for fun. Maybe see if there is some easy place to get a wrench or bar on the engine first to see if it is free. If it does turn I'd go for a couple revolutions just for peace of mind. If it is a pony start I'm sure there are some who can advise on that. Same thing make sure it will turn by hand if possible. Maybe some kind of lube down the spark plug holes to soak over night or so.
Grab it. Cat will probably have anything you will ever need for it. It is amazing how many parts they still make and carry. Not sure what pump that one has but might have to pull the cover off and make sure the plungers are not stuck. If its a pony start report back and I can give you some pointers about starting and running them. Check out the ACMOC board for more information from experts than any of us can digest on older Cats. As Kshansen said turn the engine a couple revolutions before you try to start it. Also be sure to have a piece of board or some means to choke of the air intake in case it takes off and runs wild. Take the top of so you can plug of the air. Things sticking in the fuel system can cause that to happen. EDIT: The kinky tracks will likely free right up with a little running. Kinky tracks are often a sign of like new track rails, they don't get tight very often in well worn tracks..
Like OIH says most if not all parts are still available, and quickly too if need be. When I repaired the engine in one of my 977s my dad accidentally destroyed the nice new head gasket I bought from Offroad, he was trying to help and clean up a bit, cut and bent the box it was in in half without first looking inside... Only after it didn't fold in half like he expected after cutting the box did he realize the new gasket was still in there. Since I was in a time crunch I called up the local cat dealer and he got one going right away from the main warehouse, this was December 23rd, I had the new one on the 26th! Another time I needed a master pin for the tracks and they had one in stock!
Ok so help me with some step by step instructions. I am have experience with smaller gas engines and understand the basics on diesels. I have a mechanic that helps with big stuff but I would like to try to get it started myself before I start paying for his help. 1. Turn engine over by hand if possible. On a car/truck I would pull spark plugs and put a rachet/breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt. What's different for a diesel? Standing in front of machine looking at front of engine is it clockwise rotation? 2. Put new batteries in. I haven't seen a pony motor. Check oil and coolant. 3. Drain old fuel install fresh fuel, crack injector lines open at each cylinder. 4. Heat glow plugs. 5. Crank engine over until get fuel out of lines. Tighten lines. 6. Crank engine and pray it starts. Anything else?
Going off your questions Hire some one and watch what they do, and learn. Good luck Bob
You should be able to turn the crankshaft by hand if you can reach the fan, pulley, belt? It will turn a tiny bit until compression builds in a cylinder, let it bleed down a couple seconds and turn it again. If it goes two turns that way then it's fine. Maybe check the oil drain plug for water, loosen it until you get a drip and wait for a few drops of oil, no water and you're good to go. I wouldn't drain the diesel, if the fuel is bad then the tank needs to be cleaned usually. Use a jug, or boat tank and run some temporary lines to the transfer pump, or wherever the supply goes first. Use #1 or a mix of #2 and cetane boost. I wouldn't open the injector lines. Follow the priming procedure for the filters, and injection pump if you know the procedure. Know the shut off procedure before you crank it, and have the backup that Old Iron Habit mentioned.
( 1 ) check motor for roll over ( 2 ) check motor oil and see if it is over full , this would tell if there is water in it. ( 3 ) just check the fuel tank for water and if the fuel looks good put battery's in it just try it and go form there . ( 4 ) if it starts try and drive it , and you have a new TOY .
There's a compression release lever on the back of the cylinder head. Looks like the exhaust stack was uncovered so there is potential for water to have gotten in. I would flip the compression release and roll the engine over with the starter just to make sure there's no water in any of the cylinders. This way you'll also circulate some oil through the engine and lube things up before it starts up. Also, this thing uses 2 12V batteries in series to make 24 volts so keep that in mind.
Just to help with suggestions how about posting a couple pictures of the engine. Pictures can tell many of us things that we would have to ask long involved questions to be sure we are all on the same track. Get pictures of both side of engine and maybe one or two of the dash and controls in that area?
All good advice. Post a picture of the injection pump. If it is the style I think, you should have a flat cover on it with 6(?) bolts. Take that off, nothing will fall out, and insure the vertical plungers and that the slide will move freely. The slide is spring operated from the throttle and do stick causing runaways or lack of fuel, dependent on where it is stuck. Do not grab then with a vice grip or raw pliers and mar them. Put some rag between the jaws and be gentile. They are a finely machined surface. They are often stuck but usually easily freed up with a little tinkering. Crank with the compression released and the throttle all the way off to build a little heat and get some oil circulating to where it has drained over the years. After oil pressure develops then flip to compression and when cranking give the throttle a good jerk to wide open. Jerking it wide open pulls harder on the spring opening the fuel. Immediately back it off when it fires. I would not crack injectors before trying to start it as stated by others. It would be good to crack the fuel tank drain and get rid of any condensation water that would be settled to the bottom of the tank. There are so many little things that one versed in starting these old machines could help you with on this first start that it would be wise to have help. Again I would urge you to go to the ACMOC site and shout out. There are many ACMOC members in North Carolina area and finding help should not be difficult. We take great pride in getting these old girls running again and it probably won't cost you a dime to get a hand.
That direct start model should have preheaters also. Not a good idea to use ether with them.
That machine uses the compact fuel injection pump....no side cover access.
Very good idea, most it might cost you is a couple barley sodas! If this machine was close to me I might be willing to take a ride out just for fun, but then it's down in the negative numbers on the thermometer this morning so even if it was a stones throw from me I might pass on it today. That and it's at least a ten hour drive from me!
While rolling the engine thru mind the gauges, engine oil pressure may not come up a lot but has to have some flowing and some pressure indicated before I would start it. Cracking loose any and ALL the drain plugs will not hurt either, on the finals, the trans and the engine as water is despicable once it mixes with oil becoming a emulsion, lack of lubrication, steam impingement as it boils off, erosion corrosion all sorts of damaging issues.
Unless you have a great deal of confidence in the owner of this machine, get a bill of sale before you start trying to start it up. He might value it much higher running than he did before you cranked it. Don't ask why I bring this up. Regards, Clark
Wow those tracks look next to new. The whole machine looks next to new? What's the hour meter on the injection pump read?
So we are still waiting on the equipment broker to see if he is going to make an offer. I am thinking that since we haven’t heard from him that means he isn’t interested which is good for me. I took a couple of more pics. I am not very knowledgeable on undercarriages but this one seems to be in great shape other than the bad kink.
More pics Gary, Where exactly is this hour meter you are talking about?
If it's hard to read ypu can take the 4 screws off to read it.
If'fn you want someone to run it awhile and break all the rusty parts BACK in I would volunteer!! Rails look newer, all I can see looks very good and electric starter in the bottom of the hole top center of photo. Make sure the engine will roll thru then time to get it started.
Here's the basics on the fuel system. Under the top cover (4 nuts) there is the main fuel filter. Their is a drain on the bottom to empty the bowl. Can't see the lift pump but it's below the hour meter their is a pre screen under a bowl. They plug up rather fast if the tanks rusty. If you could you can cut and add a plastic in line filter by the tank to monitor it since it's been sitting so long. That would be way easier to view and change in the event of rust. Our tank was terrible when we got our machine. We had to add a filter so for easy access before we could clean the tank. Also if you have a decent bit of fuel in the tank and open the air bleed on the filter housing it should self prime.
So I pulled the fan cage off and tried to turn the engine over by hand. It rotated a little bit but then the belt started slipping. But it rotated enough for me to confirm that the engine isn’t frozen. I don’t see a great way to access the front of the engine to put a wrench on it to manually turn the engine over. Suggestions? Also I looked for the compression release but I am not sure what to look for exactly. Here some more pics. Thanks for all the info and help from everybody. I think these old machines are cool and it would be nice to add another piece of history to our collection of 40’s and 50’s model tractors we currently have. I am just hoping that broker doesn’t want it and that my boss gives me the official word that it’s mine so I can really dig into it.
Grab the belt in the middle of the span and use one hand to tighten it at the same time both hands are turning, one on the belt and one on the fan. It will only turn a tiny bit at a time, wait a few seconds, turn it again.
Ours was around the same year and didn't have a compression release on it. Off topic How in the world did a pony start fit in a 977h? I would love to see a pic. Changing out the starter on our was about the worst experience I've ever had working on a cat. Can't imagine how they crammed a pony in there.
You never swapped one on a big Allis or Terex!! Easiest swap I ever had was a Euc quarry dump truck, out and in the open, just heavy MT50 I believe.
Gary, just had a look at my parts book, looks like a side-saddle pony engine like on a D7... 4wheelinj1, on my 1963 977H the decompression lever is at the back of the head where that blanking plate is on yours, I can't remember now if my '64 has one or not, not that it really helps you any lol. I do have a sheet of starting instructions somewhere I put together for my dad years ago, if you want I can try to find those...
It has a starter motor. You can see it in post #34 photo 4. And looking at the wear on the pedals, I would say that it probably has north of 5000hrs on it. The mechanical hour meters weren't very good and would fall apart from the vibration, but it could be worth a look. It's clearly has a new exhaust elbow not long before it was parked as the paint isn't burnt off yet. My biggest concern would be if the chimney has been left open.
That must be so satisfying to work on. The 977 reminds me of our late 90s 446 backhoe. You can't get to that engine to save your life.
Haha oh my I can imagine how amazing that was to work on. We pulled a pony off our 7 and that was a tight fit. and yeah I bet thats what the cover is for. Kinda makes me sad that machines have all lost their compression releases.
The old Allis and Terex loaders the starter was buried alive or at best you could see it, could touch it but the only way to get the top inside bolt out was almost to engine pulling.
Spit if you have those starting instructions that would be great.
Ok I'll try to find them and report back.
I found it! This isn't out of any manual or anything, it's just my own rendition of how to start my machines that I left for my dad in case he needs to use the thing while I'm away. Hopefully this helps you in some way.
Thanks Spitz.
that 977 is just like my brother in laws its a beast looking at the tracks you have the same problem my 951 has tracks binding what I have been doing to it is I bought a gallon of pb blaster and spray up the links right at where the pin meets the inner and outer links let it soak and hit it on the pad driving it down then soak again and this time hit it back up keep doing it until it loosens up I have been doing this to mine off and on for a year my machine sat in a gravel pit that used to flood for twenty years I tried transmission fluid and acetone sprayed on tracks it gets the rust out but its doesn't lube like pb blaster try this first instead of running the tracks if they bind could wreck your final drive be gentle
An old trick to get the kinks out is to run it back and forth while submerged in water.
Water locks them up water will be the first to break them loose.
I bought a 973 that was used once or twice a year for four or five years. Motor ran great but ended up with rust in a couple of cylinders and ruined pistons and sleeves. Found a good running motor and put that in but used the injection pump from the loader and it was set for the right horse power. Had to rebuild the pump this winter because of rust and put new injectors in as they got rust in them. Not saying yours won't be fine this is what I ran into with a machine setting all the time.
4winj1, Have you made a deal yet? I look after one that is used in a concrete crushing plant almost every day; one tough son of a gun and a sweet runner. I'll put a pic up when I get a chance (just to tease ya).
Again I am not trying to buy this machine but rather have it given to me. So far the equipment broker hasn't come back with an offer which probably means he has no interest in messing with it. I am going to give it a couple more weeks since right now is kinda crazy around here with year end/tax stuff. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Offer to drive over his mother in laws car when you get it running. That should seal the deal.
Updates???
Any news?