Can I put a track chain/rail from a 977L 11K4042 into my 977L 11K5251? Also I read you can push the track adjusts all the way back and remove the the track without removing the master pin and braking the chain. I live about where the the glacier stopped in south center Wisconsin. Dug the house into the northeast corner of our hilltop. Put in geothermal in the valleyish place 500 feet below our house. Well it made the excuse to buy the 1972 Cat 225 excavator and the 1969 Cat 977K. I worked the 977L till it whore through the bushings, Quite aways though the pins lucky the track only broke though one side I run her up every couple of months nice and hot and go back and forth on level ground and mix up all that oil. The L has a 4 in 1. I want to dig a bunch more lime stone to use on forest roads. I sure like reading the posts!
11K1 to 11K5958 is all the same 8" pitch track.
Magnet I sure hope you are right. I have a 11K1263 here that I wouldn't mind pushing into retirement (for awhile).Chain and pads are great. But I was out looking at it today, and the bottom rollers from the outside look great. The inside has 5 flanges gone or getting there. I was was unpleasantly surprised. The pads are triple grouser like brand new. Then someone did a great job of welding bulldozer single grouser extensions. It looks like a snowcat. Work in the woods is best done in the winter with snow cover.
The tell all on the rollers is the added Dozer Grousers, with the base weight of a 977 and then add a Load in the bucket are looking at serious side stress on the flanges. Do not do well unlike on dozer where are primarily Pushing. Another add will be the heavier 4/1, asking for issues on the other tractor.
Excellent point DMiller. I will check the bottom rollers on both machines. I was thinking to just swap the chain. The 977L 11K5251's bucket is pretty bad, I hope the bottom rollers are good. I would like to fabricate a brush/root grapple to hang and bolt on the dozer blade. Then use the clam cylinders to run the top half of the grapple. Winter in the woods summers spreading and smashing limestone. The 1969 Cat 977K triple grouser has very good bucket for digging and loading.
I have offers in on 2 machines. pretty low offers. They are both the 977L's and have the 3306 engine, 20 more HP. One has double grousers one triple.
Double grouser shoes with a 4/1 will be easier on machine, tri bar shoes seems to load and slip easier in softer sticky soils.
Old Magnet thanks for the good news about switching the track! Years ago the parts guys at the Cat Dealer said the numbers of the different machines don't match. So I checked with them Friday for a quote on tracks for my 11K5251 they said can't find a good number. Sent me to the track shop to see the 40 year veteran of track. He said Cat had stopped making it. He repeated 11K1 to 11K5958 is all the same 8" pitch track, and D7 dozer at one time. I still want to compare some measurements but I'm convinced. How about bottom rollers? DMiller I would agree the the tri bar works very good on rock and fairly dry soil. Plenty of traction to dig, easier to turn. But when working in snow they pack with snow that turns to ice. Can't clime hills or pull out tree trunks. Double grouser shoes would probably be the best combination. I am looking for a way to get the 977L back in serves. It has the the third valve and the better 3306 engine . Plenty of other things to do here. But if the price is right I want to be ready to buy a parts machine. Thanks Shawn
Gonna wind up going aftermarket on rails, ITR, Berco, one of the Others, not going to have Cat life but should be fine for your purposes. Standard today is Two Bar shoes on Loaders, Single tall grouser on Dozers.
DMiller mite be going new. I expect my use 25% or less.Probably new rails at $4000. If I can find a machine at about that price I'l buy it. Double grousers installed even better. Going in the snow is a must. My trashed rails/chains have like new shoes that have to find a new owner.
switching rails on my 977K I laid the new (lightly used) rails out infront of the loader both sides,cut the old master pins out of the old rails on it, then flopped the ends down,drove the loader right onto the new rails,pulled the ends up and over the front idler and rear sprocket and pulled em together with track jack then drove new master pin in and welded it up.master pin is easiest to drive in right on the rear sprocket behind machine..easiest access.having a forklift onsite is priceless for this job
How did you cut out the master pins? Did you drive in the new masters with a sledge hammer? Did you weld up the ends of the master pins? I've done that on loose pins.
977L I would think would have a segmented master link, pins will be tough to impossible to move with a sledge unless blow the center out of the pins ends then the pins are scrap. Later new rails should come segmented master link and SALT design pin/bushings.
They added the segmented master link with the 8.5"pitch SALT tracks. Mine a 1972 977L are the 8" pitch dry rails that Oldmagnet informed us are the same as all the 977K's. I've been down with a open toe sore for 4 months. Doctor gave me the all clear to return acting my age ( Diabetic 61). Yesterday the unit with the bulldozer looking tracks got its first taste of snow. Wow I can get it in trouble and get back out +++++. Maybe I should fix the clutch that won't release.
Trek is another aftermarket undercarriage.
I'll give them a call. This thread got started when there was a local auction. The auction is over, they got $8900 for a 1972L. To pricey for me. Then another 1973L with double grousers turned up. I put a $4000 offer on it. They still want $7500 down from $10,000. Not quite sure what I will do.
Have you tried Offroad Equipment.? www.offroadeq.com/ They might have all sorts to choose from.
A 977K/L here in any form of Running condition, rails shot, leaking like a bad wound even barely able to handle digging will still advertise over $9k, decent machines will carry $10-18k easy. Rails and shoes are going to be expense no matter how you look at them in 'Lightly Used' or New aftermarket. A major concern not yet brought up is dry pin rail wear concerns, may carry a nearly full external bushing but have been presented corrosive or abrasive invading materials that affect pin to bushing wear and the rails essentially be worn to >100% while look great. Scrapper value junker with salvageable parts sold then metals scrapped will still garner $7-12k easily.
I've requested quotes from both Trek and Offroad Equipment. I would possibly pay up for the 1973L but all I have is pictures. Its 600 + miles away, too far away for me to go and test drive. Shipping probably around 2-3K. But can I buy that 4th 977 without a really good excuse to tell the wife! Could cost me more than a few nights out on the town. Really Honey I get all this for a little more than price of a set of rails!
What about the 955K listed on here under equipment for sale/wanted. Smaller but a good price and less expensive for new rails.
I haven't tried out a 955. I am kind of in love with the 977. There was a 983 fairly close, sure wish I would of taken that for a test drive!
A 983 uses D8 undercarriage I believe. You wouldn't want to have to replace it... ever!
A 983 at 71650.3 lbs no no no. Just like a boy going to a toy store, looking, touching, hopefully driving. But there would be no buying. Cat did't make many of these. Parts if you can get them $$$. I've seen them in pictures. Doubt I'll ever see one much less drive it.
YA I regret not pushing on with the 983. His Dad had just went through it with new undercarriage, rebuilt engine, and I don't know what else. He was selling off his Dad's company and got huffy about how much it was worth ect. ect. And that the Cat dealer offered to buy back the engine for $5000 ect. ect. He was abrasive I didn't like the thought of talking to him any more ect. ect.. Life lesson don't quit until the fat lady sings. 45 minutes drive might of at least given me a ride on a sweet machine. And then you just don't know what gift could go your way. My best 977K was bought at auction 1 hour and 20 min. away. New undercarriage, new modern bucket with the outside teeth hanging off the outside edges. Strong engine, no smoke $6000. Best part I inspected it, drove it. I paid $12,000 for the one that has the bulldozer like pads. Pictures looked great, man that did the maintenance said every thing worked great ect. ect.. It is a good tight machine supper engine, clear exhaust. BUT!!!! """HELP"""" !!! DO I HAVE TO TEAR IT DOWN TO THE CLUTCH PACKS TO GET MY RIGHT CLUTCH TO """"RELEASE""".
I didn't realize that the use all Cap's is prohibited. I am very sorry. It will never happen again.
DMiller you were quite right about the turning force due to bulldozer pads. I was out today on frozen ground with a thawed broken rock surface. Obviously much much harder to steer than the other 977K. Well that pealed off what was left of the inside flanges of some bottom rollers. This machine has track guides on the lower frame or I would of thrown a track today. Now its obvious new rails and pads were put on old rollers. There is not much much left before the shells break off. I haven't checked the rollers on the 977L. The clutches and track adjusters are working at least.
Inquiring minds asking. With a 225 excavator in the stable why would one not want a rubber tired loader for that second machine? Just curious.
Cannot have rubber tire here as have Honey Locust Once a thorn gets implanted just keeps working in and thru
My mini lime stone quarry produces broken sharp stones of all sizes. As DMiller says the little embedded sharpies go in,and if you don't get them out they disappear into the rubber. Hopefully the belts will stop them before a flat. I also use the crawlers to breakup the rocks to make gravel for the fire trails. With my stone the pieces can break up when I try to remove them. Then the rolling of the tire, (I have heard) pushes them in deeper and deeper. I try to stay ahead of them on the truck. I've seen pictures of wheel loaders with something that looks like chain mail on the tires. That would probably do the trick I like wheel loaders, but I think they would probably get stuck in the woods in the winter. I looked at the bottom rollers on the L yesterday not allot left on them. Old lesson always "Question" the work that was done in the past. The L had new segments on the drive sprocket and a link on the rails was removed. Sure looks good in pictures. The square edges on the sprocket tore up the rail bushings.
Rubber tires on quarry machines were always short lived, tracks faired no better as the aggressive behavior of the aggregate ground its way thru any metals. Just do not get recurrent flats on tracks.
I have a 955 that I need to get some work done on and my dad had a 977 that my uncle now owns. It is a beast compared to my 955 but I like my 955 much better.
houser I do have a mindset of the bigger the better. I do face the problem it also means the more $ to keep running. When it breaks could mean a trip to the banker. Your Dad owned a 977 so you must have spent a good deal of time on it. Why dose the 955 work so good for you. I forgot to say the L machine has like new triple bar pads. Quite deceptive. Like new triple bar pads on the digger/loader K. I hope most of the wear is on the pads. The Bulldozer pads and rails look like new. When I can come up with some bottom rollers I believe I will make the L into a Snow Cat/Bulldozer and lite material handler.
955 more nimble, 977 is a HOSS and a bit awkward where a 983 is a Open Territory or demolition machine.
houser I would still like to hear your opinion. Of course it would be great to hear what others have experienced also. I peal up the lime stone in layers. I have a ripper tooth on the 225 ex. to peal with. That way I can see what I'm doing and separate and preserve the good rocks. I'm trying for big flat stones for the future patio and hopefully to put on the 5" brick ledge on the house. I wish I had a wider bucket with a shorter top so I can see what I'm loading up on the 977.
It will be time to fight/Roundup garlic muster in the woods soon. Not looking forward to that. I have a 2 wheel drive Rokon motorcycle I want to use to haul my sprayer around with instead of walking this year. Offroad Equipment came back with a bid on new rails,nuts, bolts, double grouser pads. $5400. I will still be waiting for the lucky donor machine for awhile. Trek didn't get back to me.
This was standard track,not SALT track with a alligator link. I identified which pins were the master pins by looking for the existing welds on the outside that held them in..using oxy-acet torch,cut the weld material off the outside of the link..this also burns away some of the pin on the outside of the track link..those rails were scrap anyway..then hit the link and pin with a BFH/sledge and a BIG chisel..couple of hits broke it loose,it shot out the other side of the track..just be careful to support the track rail with a 2"ratchet strap or so it doesnt unfurl itself..lot of weight there.I drove the new pins in with the same BFH,but it went pretty easy as the newer rails I cleaned up with a grinder and had brand new Cat master pins..went right in no problem.Welded up both sides of the pin with ER70S6 MIG.All you are doing is keeping the pin from walking out of the track link. A farm tractor with loader or forklift is essential for this job.
I think you have to be careful how hot you get the links when you weld the pins. There's Belleville washers or some kind of seals that could be damaged. Wouldn't think 977 pins would pound in that easy.
Thanks for the lowdown on welding master pins. My 977's all have dry rails even the 1972 977L. The pins have 2 bevel washers on each end. I believe they switched to salt rails in 1976. I looked up HOSS on google it would refer to a large trust worthy fellow. Like Hoss Cartwright on Ponderosa. I watched that show when I was like 12. So thanks DMiller. I was checking out the 955 at 30,000 lb's it must have some good heft. I mean to try one when I get a chance.
Well, I don't know if that post could be considered the lowdown,it's just what I went thru..If you have torch skills it sure helps cutting the master pin welds out..WelderDave is right on the link heat tho..keep the heat on the pin,its sacrificial,throw away altho you could reuse it I guess..I remember spending some time with a die grinder and cleaned up the pin sockets on both sides of the track links before welding it in. It didn't just slip in,but went OK with a BFH. PITA getting the bevel washers to stay in there. I beveled the pin bore outer edges in the link a bit,no too much, so the weld would have room to lay in..I used MIG but you could use stick just the same. My old 1970 977K doesnt do major time anymore,just an occasional job project on the farm. I do have my eyes on a 983B playmate for it in upstate PA..probably pay more for permits and transport than for the machine itself
Bunkclimber thanks for sharing your experience. I bought track jacks off Ebay for $60. Hopefully they will take all the pressure off the master pin. I plan to cut the center out of the MP and drive both sides into the middle. Then pull up the replacement track with another machine and come along, and then get the track jacks installed. I will make up a dummy pin with a free clearance fit through the links. Then use it to get all the links lined up. Then buy a master pin and polish it down on the lathe till I have a light press fit. Install it with a dead blow hammer. Weld a little on the pin ends just to be sure they have no chance of moving. Hopefully it go's as planned! I love big machines! But Welder Dave is right. You don't ever want to replace the under carriage on that 983!!!!
Local contractor replaced UC on a 973 Rails shoes all rollers sprocket segments no idlers $24k
DMiller that is a break the Bank amount! My machines are more like a hobby. 977L was 1st $8,500, fair amount of use then broke one one side of pin on rail. 977K $6000 thought I was going to auction to buy a parts machine. Way to good to part out. Next 977K $11,500, too much for parts machine ( whoops ). All of them pretty close by, $1,200 to $1,600 for transport. I test drove the hydrostatic drive 973. Seemed like a good machine with a much better view of what you were doing. I didn't like driving it as much as the 977 with the power shift transmission. Also the risk of a failure of something going wrong in the hydrostatic system causing a real expensive repair. IMO they don't build them like they use to. And when the contractor's let go of the newer electronic machines who's going to be able to fix them on the cheap?
Probably will not. Already seeing joysticks small electronic shops are repairing as Nothing available from CAT, limited scope repairs, sub standard parts so limited longevity. What the manufacturers want is these machines to just go away and new ones replace them, they do not care of the low use hobby or small farm use market.
11K-1970 977K..with rops and extra counterweights and standard bucket when I bought it was $4K,that was 20yrs ago.. rails and pads were shot,but 1800hrs on a documented recon engine..had to look around a bit but found complete 50% rails and pads in Buffalo,NY ran up there overnight with truck and trailer,had them loaded the next day for 850.00(!) before the seller changed their mind..lot of work but well worth it
Wow those are some great numbers! I'm hoping for a machine with drive line problems and usable rails, double grousers would be a plus. I just want to keep my machines running and maybe sell off some parts. I made a quick attach for my JD 450C, works very well. The attachment arms go over the original pin connections. Might make one for the 977L. Not practical still just a hobby. Hey has any buddy ever heard of one for the 977 series? We only have 20 ac. here, but we own the top and south side of one of the last hills that the Glacier didn't flatten in WI. Sure loosened up the lime stone bed rock though!
I'd love to have a QT for my 977, that would be big pins to handle the weight and forces,that's no skid steer we are talking about..I made a fork chassis for mine out of an old Gradall 16K fork attachment,least to say I had to cut and machine lot of 4" round stock to make the pin bushes,drill (8) 2.5"holes thru 1"plate and a lot of welding to make it all work and hold up. I've lifted over 15K on it so I guess I did something right..A QT would make it soooo much easier to change from the bucket, just getting alignment to drive the pins in and out is such a PITA..but keep in mind the heavier the whole attachment system the less you can lift overall. Sometimes simpler is better.
There were quick attach heads for tractors as these, used primarily in the Demolitions equipment.
I would love to have a factory made one. So anybody out there that's selling I'm buying! 15K you diffidently get a Ata boy for that! I'm all with you on simpler is better and light with attachments held close to original pin locations. I do like to over build and make those clearances tight. The JD attachments only have .025" clearance when they hook on. I line bored the the the attachment adapter after all welding was done. I used the same pin diameter and location of the original pins. The top attachments hang right over where the original pins were. I would like to attach pictures but I can't even attach them to an email.
Lots of trial and many errors, but finally pictures!
When you say you have a sticking clutch, is the pedal moving freely? On my 955L, I thought I had clutch/brake issues, but it turned out the pedal assembly needed a rebuild. The pedals pivot on needle bearings which were shot. I replaced those, followed the brake/clutch adjustment in the manual, and I was in business.
The peddle has the proper amount of free travel before it should be releasing the clutch. If you push hard you can feel the brake trying to stop the track, but you can't. I think one of the fiber discs broke up and jammed up the stack. It could be quite awhile before I have enough time to commit to pulling out the assembly to rebuild it. The other thing is if you go for one side. You should probably do both. The cost in time and money is more than I want to spend right now. It is a good tight machine. I am reluctant to use it for parts.
Cat977,its very possible your hydraulic clutch release piston seal has blown,it happened to me..pulling the clutch pack out isnt THAT hard of a job if you have a forklift to lift everything out gently..the clutch pack bolts onto the flange can be unbolted SOOO much easier with a 15/16" box end ratchet wrench once you break 'em loose..I tore my machine down to the piston but couldnt pull it as I need the Cat hydraulic push/pull tool..I bought a aftermarket hyd puller but not sure if I can get it in there to pull the piston off the tapered splined shaft..I put it all back together to seal it up,repair it later.only one side steers now so I have to think ahead when operating LOL
bunkclimber sounds like you may have solved the issue. When I had talked to my semi retired Cat field service guy. He said sounds like the throw out bearing is shot. I bet this piston is what he was what he was thinking about. He wasn't to convinced on my theory of a broken disk. Man, I will be a happy boy if it is the piston. Can you heat the piston? I had a lot of pump flanges with tapered shafts. It didn't take much heat to pull them off by hand. I put cotton gloves inside some leather gloves for the pull off. I installed them cold with a thin coat of oil and a dead blow hammer. There was a washer and nut to keep it tight. I have gotten pretty good at backing up to turn left LOL. You know I've been wanting a 15/16" box end ratchet wrench. Thanks for the tip!
Cat977,I don't think I would heat anything back there..there were problems with crossshaft bearings on the 1970's 11K-977K models like mine, Cat had an upgrade for them and a service bulletin as well back in the day..Id love to come by a copy of that bulletin for my reference..the steer piston seal blows and your steer pressure just blows around the piston and steer pressure is never applied with enough force then to disengage the clutch pack to steer. Its a teflon seal that goes on the piston guide but you need to pull the guide out its on a tapered spline shaft(I think its the end of the cross shaft) its a PITA to get to..From my memory you need a 2-5/8 socket to take the nut off on the shaft end as well..I did tear my machine down to the crossshaft one year and discovered the Cat (5P2997?)tool issue to get in there to pull it off,its tight access in the clutch compartment area once you pull the clutch pack between the final drive flange and the inner wall of the bevel gear housing rear box. I bought a small hollow hyd cylinder to try it myself after talking to Bob in Ontario ('LaterBob')-RIP good man-years ago a guy who knew his 977s. He said the Cat bulletin said it was like 20T of pressure to remove it from the spline shaft and reinstall it needs pressure to press it on and you need a long bolt(i think its a 3/4 fine Grade 8 x 8inL dont quote me) to go in the middle to press it back on with another Cat spacer tool. then there's a runout spec on the bearings as well when you press it on to get it right..took about a days labor to tear down to get to it with a forklift to pull the ROPS off and everything off the machine.If one side steers but not the other side then this is probably the issue you have..one side steers then you have pump pressure and steer valve action OK,your seal is blown on the opposite side. When I did the strip down I removed the fuel tank, battery box,operators station but left the operators station supports(under the seat and battery box) you can lean over the supports to get into the bevel gear box to pull the clutch pack and use the hyd tool but its a PITA,not too bad standing on the tracks tho.I left the hyd tank and hyds in place on the right side as my left seal was blown,saved some work that way but Im thinking I'll do both seals when I get to this issue again in the spring.Everything came apart pretty easy makin me thinks someone was into this machine before I bought it doing this same job..the red shop rag in the bottom of the bevel gear box was a dead giveaway tho This has been a longtime issue I need to get serious with wrenching on again and get er fixed..as Bob said to me, "Fix it once,Fix it right"
Here's the R&I procedure for the steering clutches and the hubs. Also something I came across regarding an updated cross shaft bearing. I think this is what you were referring to.
Thanks bunkclimer and Nige. I mean Thanks a real Lot! bc I hope you'll share some pictures when you get into yours. I think you will be getting in to it long before me. When I get to mine I'll post pictures. It calls for 20 tons to install dry. And that's on a tapered splined sleeve! I sure hope there's no rust helping to hold it on. I seems that it would be wise to upgrade to the new shaft and bearings. Thanks Nige! I am so spoiled from my work back at the powerplant. If it didn't have over head rigging I put a portable over it, or hung a new I beam. The shop and rigging will probably have to be finished first. Great help!
Happy to help 'Cat977'-this repair has been on my back burner for quite some time now-good luck with yours Thanks Nige..I knew that bulletin was out there somewhere..Bob mentioned it and my Cat parts guy rolled his eyes..but now I have the updated P/Ns too THANKS
I managed to rebuild the tilt on my 955. Used a 3/4 impact to remove and install the piston bolt. Had good help from Nige ans from my bad memory, it was torque to so many ft lb, then torque another 30 degrees. I was never able to get it turned that far. Froedge machine did my lift cylinders and I asked them how they torque. Was told they use a 6 foot pipe wrench. These guys do rebuilds for commercial folks year round. The guy says he has never seen one come back