Does any other manufacturer use Cat skidsteer controls in their equipment? Just curious.
CAT buys their controls from Rexroth as does CNH.
Whats CNH?
CASE and New Holland built by the same company which is CNH.
ASV/Terex use Rexroth pilot controls too.
we are already confusing pilot controls with electric controls.
Who does TK use for their pilots?
Do you mean the actual controller or do you mean the pattern of the controller? Pilot control systems can be electric or hydraulic.
Aren't "pilot controls" the actual use of electric joysticks, and ISO is the pattern (one stick drives, the other runs boom) or am i way off?
"Pilot" controls means that your input (when you move the controller with your hand, foot, or whatever) goes into a system that operates the valves that, in turn, make your machine function. In other words it's a "control" system that is the "go between" between you and the machine. Most full sized equipment still employ hydraulic pilot control systems (hydraulic over hydraulic). The newer compact equipment has gone to electric pilot control (electric over hydraulic or "fly by wire") and I would imagine that all equipment is moving in that direction. I prefer the hydraulic pilot controls because I think they offer better feedback than fly by wire does.
so basically every skid steer has pilot controls. Funny how that term gets used. I like the electrical over hydraulic, less strain throughout the day. But i like the reliability of hydraulics, feedback as you mentioned, and ease of repair. its easier to find a leak than a shorted wire.
The term pilot controls or CAT controls has become very over used and in most cases incorrectly. However in this case if asked who else uses the same system as CAT it would not matter if you are talking EH or Pilot because the are both sourced from the same place and that is Rexroth. Case also used Rexroth for its pilots. The Alpha series does not offer pilots its either EH or standard which is not even servoed I believe. I think that was a mistake but oh well.
the majority of skid steers are sold with the standard manual non pilot controls non servo controls. as far as controlling your machine, there is no better way to do it. one of my buddies had a case 445 and traded it on a new alpha case, he is going to be pissed when he finds out it does not have servo controls. to answer your question to the best of my knowledge... case: mechanical (h pattern) electric (switchable) option new holland: same cat: electric or pilot hydraulic depending on size terex: pilot hydraulic kubota: electric jcb: electric takeuchi: electric bobcat: mechanical or electric basically most are going with the cat style but a few still offer mechanical controls. who invented this cat style control?
I was told pilot controls were designed caused of the higher hyd pressure in the newer machines and without pilot controls using the controls would be very difficult... is this true ?? or did a salesman sucker me in to a fishin story
the bigger the machine the harder it is to drive w o pilot controls
DGODGR. The pattern as a operator point of view. When someone asks what do you run, cat controls, bobcat, hand or foot, for example. I was curious how many other machines have adopted Cats's pattern as it were. I just started running a Case 430, it sure is very different from running Caterpillar skidsteers which is what I'm used too.
Ok, I suspected that might be your question, and that's a bit different than the direction the thread has gone. In the future you may want to call it the Cat control pattern instead of Cat controls. I know that it is a widely used term but, as you can see, it leads to confusion at times. Either way I have not heard the term used in reference to skid steers. Excavators and backhoes yes but not skids. IMO the pattern that Cat uses is more commonly known as the ISO contol pattern. I believe that ISO is an international standardizing body like ASE is here in the US. I'm fairly certain that all MFRs can offer that pattern, especially on the units that are equipped with pilot systems. My Bobcat A300 has that pattern when in the "skid mode". When in the "steer mode" it uses the same pattern except that when you are in reverse you move the lever to the way you want to go, instead of the way you want the front to go, when you steer (hopefully that makes sense). I hope that answers your question.
Yes ISO is the international standards development agency. The OEMs meet to discuss what to come up with for a standard and ISO regulates and puts into effect the standard. Its nice how more and more things are finally becoming standardized. In the Ag world, we now have nearly every new tractor rolling off the line with ISO-BUS compatibility, meaning any implement can be plugged into any tractor with no additional monitor.
except for john deere, they know thats the only way they can keep charging exorbitant prices for their tractors.
John Deere is ISO-BUS (ISO 11783) combatable as well. Do you do any homework before you post?
there is more to it than that. u ever try to hook a red planter up to a green tractor? or try to guide a red tractor with greenstar? the tractors might be iso11783 compatible, but all the components are far from plug and play, and many still use different interfaces. there is little standardization for data transfer among computers, implement controllers, and farm management information systems. isobus is still in the early stages of development, and iso compatible machine compatibility is still hit or miss. who said the tranny on the fendt went out because they never changed the filter? was the filter disintegrated?
Yup, Thank you.
Green Star works on any color. Well about as good as green star can work i guess. The european stuff is much further ahead on ISO-BUS but yes the newer stuff if it is ISO compatible works, at least every time i've used it, which isnt much because there is not very much equipment that is ISO-BUS right now. John Deere JUST put it on their tractors as did CNH, Agco did a couple years ago, and Fendt did it right at the beginning. If you do not change the High Pressure Filter for the Transmission on the Fendt CVTs (also used in Agco,Massey,Challenger,Valtra and JCB) the transmisson will become starved of fluid and will fail. There is an indicator to tell you when it is plugged up, otherwise it is every 800hrs. The first one never makes it to 800hrs it seems though. Then when the brakes go out they will plug that filter up and if it goes ignored you could need a transmission. The vast majority of Fendt CVT failures are due to the operator failing to service it, or using it in High range where they should be in low range. Good news is that it is quick and easy to fix. Pull the cab off, remove the cover plate, disconnect some wires shafts and hoses and pull the module out. The module is not serviceable by anyone but Fendt themselves. You may say thats a bad design, the brakes go out and your filter plugs, why aren't they seperate? I dont know, but it is a better design than Deeres IVT where all of the Hydraulic Fluid that has been through god knows what (neighbors old plow thats been sitting 10 years etc) ends up in the transmission.
Unsubscribing. Content not related. HIJACK!
good point, my apologies.
ah, i will relate the content. i say fendt should make a skid steer using 2 of their sweet cvts. fendt was always cool in that they made all the components of their tractors. that is what they claimed. i believe now days they use deutz and man engines. i still find it hard to believe they made their own front axle and such. and i assume none of the computer system. even so, they always claimed, or that is what i heard they claimed, they made the whole tractor in house. so clearly they need to make a skid steer using their own strategy. as far as the cat controls in this thread, that has already been played. actually i believe fendt was one of the first using joysticks in the industry. so really, cat controls might have originated from fendt controls...i would have to look into it more. this is partially a joke. i do like how fendt does not let anyone but themselves work on their transmission, there could be many benefits to this setup; perhaps bobcat should employ this strategy. how bout greenstar on my skid steer? is that going to be compatible with the hardware and software on my sid steer if i want to use guidance for some reason? if there is a warning light going off on your tractor, and you dont do anything, you are asking for problems; same with your skid steer. although the low oil pressure light always comes on on our s185, but i have been ignoring it for years so... deeres ivt has been a joke from the beginning, much like their skid steers they designed themselves. ah this last part was a joke to an extent, im talking about when they first introduced their own skid steer. the europeans have always been ahead of us on the technology front.... not sure y brakes would go out in a tractor when you got wet disc
Wet disc brakes still get to a point where they disintegrate , and thats what plugs up the filters, all of the particles. The cash cropper running it on his corn planter and buggy wont experience it for awhile. But guys like us running them on big tankers can burn through a set of brakes in a few years. Fendt makes many of their parts in house, but not all. There are enough things that are outsourced. Its kind of a German thing I think. Claas has the same approach. I dont know about Fendts older axles, but the new IFS one is theirs AFAIK. I think your getting confused on the ISO-BUS topic as you keep referring to greenstar. ISO-BUS is mainly focused on making implements and tractors all talk to each other with no additional monitors or cables. Precision solutions are on a different level. Green star guidance will work on your lawn mower if you want it to. It has nothing to do with the hardware and software in the tractor just needs 12 volt and ground. However if you want steering you will need more work. how to get it to work on a skid steer i dont know. but you can get it to work on your old 3088 series. I dont know how far behind green star is, but many of the companies allow you to interface with the tractors hydraulic steering, or have some form of steering wheel replacement/artificial hand. Now if the tractor is auto steer ready, that part might be brand specific, I really dont know.
it all needs to come together. everything from skid steers to farm equipment, from guidance, machine control, hardware, software, laser leveling, rtk, variable rate, field mapping remote control, etc. what it is going to have to come down to is an on board computer that controls everything on all your machines, and can do anything; hate to say it. even better...everything needs to be controlled from a computer in your house with no operators. or i guess everything could go through apps on your iphone, so as soon as you get in your stuff everything is wirelessly activated by your phone, then your phone could serve as your computer, your phone would just show up on a monitor in the cab. yes, you would need your phone and the internet to run your tractor. i guess you could drive your skid steer via your phone and get rid of the controls in the skid steer.
They have had the technology to do that for many years. Fendt is trying to go public with their system where one un manned tractor follows the other manned one. The biggest thing standing in the way of full automation is lawyers.
If this topic is still about pilot & EH joysticks controls, I would like to ask a question, going from a 242B to a 246C I have noticed that the 246C takes more wrist effort to dump / crowd the bucket then the good ol 242B, anyone else notice this? & if so is there a fix. Jumped in a few other "C" series machines & all seem the same, would love a lighter spring in EH control. Apart from that love the "C" series machines. thanks
I didnt read your post all the way the first time. Controlling implements from your computer or smartphone is already possible thanks to telematics. You can log into Claas Lexion website and watch various combines running across the country. The owners of those combine can control many things about them from their home office, Deere is implementing this too. There still is a real operator though, again mostly because of legal reasons. But if the lawyers would let unmanned tractors surface to the public, we could be much more profitable. I believe the added cost of the computers required to run unmanned implements would be offset by the cost of not needing a big cozy cab with all the bells and whistles, lights, air conditioning etc. Many people already need their smartphone and internet for running CORS guidance in their tractors. I've wondered what the difference is between the B and C series, haven't really looked into it much though. I thought the 242 was nice to operate.