I have a cat D 353 in an older tug boat for propulsion. The exhaust temp at the turbo is getting above 1000 degrees, it also smokes like it is burning off oil. There is also intermittent puffs of black smoke coming out the exhaust. Injection pumps are new Overhead is adjusted correctly Injection timing is correct (measured on engine) Turbo spins freely
Nozzles replaced ?
I know that they have been replaced within the last year.
Has anyone had a pressure gauge on it to measure turbo boost pressure..?
No we have not
Is it actually consuming oil, or has the "normal" oil consumption increased recently..? I think you should check turbo boost, even if for no other reason than to eliminate it from your diagnostics. If the boost is per spec then attention would move to the fuel system checks/adjustments. Post an engine Serial Number just so data can be looked up.
Sounds like are losing a nozzle tip, spray pattern well off with fuel still burning into exhaust. Black would indicate late burned fuel not oil where if turns white could end up washing a hole.
I didn’t mean to say it is burning oil and coming out the exhaust, it looks like the engine is slobbering, the turbine house was wet around the flange and the outside of the turbo smoked so much it filled the engine room with smoke.
Next I’m going to pull the nozzles and double check the part numbers.
Serial is 47B2017
Might be interesting to see what nozzle part number is installed.
When smoked up the engine room, oil smell or fuel? That would be a Major league indicator. If was oily, check the intake turbo delivery tubes for tracking oil as could have a seal trashing. Another often missed problem is getting debris/trash/failing piece parts in the turbo oil drain line overloads the seals with oil that has to go somewhere.
How much blow by? A check of crankcase pressure at the dipstick could tell you if you have a weak hole. Piston, rings and liner problems? How many hours do you have on the monster?
It’s is a 7M4601
There isn’t any noticable blow by.
7M-4601 is an old but good number. The latest service replacement is 7M-7431. The strange thing is that the service documentation relating to the above changes is from the 1976-1980 time frame which is somewhat at odds with post #3 about them having been replaced within the last year. UNLESS they are "will fit" parts store brand rather than OEM Cat nozzles...... If I put 7M-4601 into the parts system it tosses me straight to 7M-7431.
I know they have been replaced within a year or two. I’d have to look in the records. We have a ton of parts sitting here in the shop. Could of been sitting here that long.
The illustration I posted above was last updated in 1984, so the 7M-4831 number has been around for at least that long.
That could be a Shelf Life issue there!!
Do dealers still have the testers to check those nozzles? Back when PC engine were all there was if we had an engine with any kind of running problem we could swing by the dealer and have them tested for free as long as we bought new ones to replace any that failed.
Well......I know for a fact that I personally changed the nozzles. I started my employment here 11/2016. And I was born in September 1986. I can't remember the exact date but it had to of been the winter of 2016 or spring 2017 as I had the heads off both engines. One had a massive compression leak the other coolant and oil leak. Also both engines are not the updated ones that have the head bolts in a different configuration. Also, these engines have had a z repair done to them. A giant pain to find the proper o rings. I appreciate all you guys and your help. There isn't anyone around anymore to help me with these older engines that pre date my birth lol. Most of what I work on are 353's, 398's, different variations of 3304's, 330's, 311's, 6-71, 3-71, 2-71, 12v71's and kta-19's. I just pulled out a kta-19 that has been in the boat and in-framed since 1989. My bosses wanted me to just put in new liners, pistons, head gaskets and get it running. The block was so so so bad you could feel the ridges with your finger. Didn't even need your finger nail.
Worked a lot of Small boats on Mississippi river Alton Pool. Most had older 110 Detroit Engines a few had EMD(heavier units) and a fewer others had Cummins or Cat back in my day. 353s were not too common but were out there, engines on the water lasted seemingly forever or self destructed way too soon usually from abuse or lack of concern for noises or odd visible problems as you have found. Only Cummins I ever saw in propulsion was a fairly new boat at the Granite City Terminal, had twin V12's VTA series, not sure displacement. Generators when not using main engines to drive power plants were often 71 series DDs some Gas and some fewer still small Case Engines(ONAN)
Where did you get the nozzles then?
They were on the shelf in the shop.
So just maybe they had been sitting on the shelf from 1984? Not saying they are bad but something worth checking on if a dealer or shop in the area can test them.
I don’t know of a place that can test them. There are bags and bags of nozzles on the shelf. I went through them and tried to get them organized. It’s hard with part number changes and the one boat has a 3304 and a 330. Both take different nozzles. I’ll look tomorrow and see what I have, if the bags look old or what the part numbers are.
Well on the outside chance there is a dealer or an injection shop in you area that even knows what a capsule type fuel nozzle is I'll attach the instructions on how it should be done. Note that this includes pre-chamber and direct injection systems.
Where you at in IL? Fabic has plenty of shops, IIRC Mikes at Hartford had access to a shop to send injection components, used to be a few decent injection shops around maybe National Marine has a name or Altorfer Cat?
I have a service kit 7M-7431. The nozzle number is 7M-4601.
I’m in Romeoville IL
Bergz check your private conversation box.
Thanks for the info.
We have another shop on the property where they used to rebuild engines, injection pumps, everything. I wonder if they have a nozzle tester.
Never got more than a few miles up the Illinois, farthest we ever made was Hardin to the bridge. Main guy I worked machines for had a Fleeting Service and recovery company where they also staged before and after locking thru on Mississippi River. Came out for a smoke replacing a blower on a EMD, had started just south of Elsberry MO, walked around boat were coming up to Clarksville Locks. Little to no sensation of motion.
Juat a thought - check the muffler. You didn't mention anything about exhaust smoke (I don't think...) but make sure the muffler / exhaust system is free and not blocked. I would also suspect a fueling problem, but if not, a partially blocked exhaust system might generate the symptoms you are describing. Or just take the exhaust off for a bit and see if it helps.
Taking the muffler off is easier said than done.
No nozzle tester. I also looked for the 9S-0240 tool. Don’t have that either.
Most everything is.
Near to CHI town, has to be SOMEONE that can test these nearby.
What about Seidel Diesel Group? https://seideldieselgroup.com/contact/locations/bolingbrook-il/
Do you work for Cat?
Used to. Not any longer, but I know where a lot of the bodies are buried ......... More info regarding the 7M-4601 vs 7M-7431 saga. It appears that Cat stopped selling the 7M-4601 nozzle separately and instead made it part of the 7M-7431 "Valve Service Group Kit". The 7M-7431 Kit also contains a 6F-1069 Seal and a 5B-7318 Seal.
Oh. I was wondering if you would be able to look up the specs on this engine, for the rack setting and governor spring. I measured it today and it was .245
Let me have a poke around. I may be able to find something, but for an engine of that era maybe the info was never transferred from the old engine microfiche to the newer computer systems. As a suggestion try joining the ACMOC forum and post there. Someone will likely still have some old microfiches kicking around somewhere.
I have a rack setting book. I just don’t know what hp and rpm this engine is supposed to be. I know it should be set for continuous duty
As I suspected, no fuel setting information available online. ACMOC would now appear to be the best bet.
I have found some information on there. Thanks for everyone’s help. I will update.
Was able to find a tag buried under paint. Guess I should have looked harder. D 353 6 cyl 6.25 bore 8 stroke Serial 47B2020 High idle 1335 Full load 1225 Rack setting .180 Hp setting at sea level 425 BOM 40285
Don't you just love it when a plan comes together..? It's amazing what can be under 40 years of paint ........ I don't know if you noticed but that pump came from a sister engine (S/N 47B2020), not the one you are working on which according to what you posted way back when that is 47B2019.
The tag I found was on the aftercooler housing, who knows where that came from. Stamped on the block is 47B2017
Looks like there was possibly a bunch of identical D353 marine propulsion engines all built at the same time. I guess the only thing you can say is that if they were all consecutive Serial Numbers then it would be logical to cross your fingers and assume that they were all the same specification.
Well. Two of our boats are triple screws. So there’s 6 353’s right there. They have since been reported. Now only a smaller tug that is mostly a backup had 2 353’s. Those six used engines have been kept and put into the smaller tug when needed. But I still think someone changed the configuration on this engine now.
So long as hulls were solid was not too hard to perform repowers as engine parts got scarce for older equipment. We dragged a good many thin bottom scows out of Alton pool to cut up as the steel was leaving at a rapid pace!! Do they still buy crude blocks of Zinc to throw in the bilges on the hull floors for corrosion anodes? We used to pick them up a Tractor Trailer load at a time.
They buy them and weld them to the outside of the hull. Usually magnesium though.
Times do change. The ones we used were the Seconds from National Zinc ESL IL. Less than quality purity and Cheap. Only lasted a few weeks to months. Biggest problems on the hulls was bank wear, picking and setting empties/full barges they would drive into the shallows, drag bottom and destroy them from the outside, not many around here still drydock and re-skin just too many companies went out of the business.
Engine is running a lot better after making the adjustments. It it is still puffing a tiny bit, hard to see in the video. The starboard is a lot worse, but it has badly worn injection pumps and forks.
Those old cats sure did have a good sound. Got anymore sound clips? Under load?
I don’t have any more right now. I can’t get some though.
Sure. I hope you were able to make some headway in fixing the issue