Picked up a D3B Japan model pretty cheap from an auction dealer and he couldn't sell it because it wouldn't start. Dealer said they tried either, bleed the lines and gave up. Figure so long its not a total basket case would be worth doing. Previous owner did some rewiring which I fixed. Replaced the battery and it will crank but not very fast, I'm thinking about half normal speed. Doubled up on the main electrical connections using jumper cables and no help on crank speed. Pulled the starter off and in red marker it says D3B, which tells me someone picked one up from a junk yard. When the starter was pulled a small amount of oil came out which looked like motor oil which is also in the bellhousing. Thinking about taking the starter to a repair shop at see what they can tell me. When I first looked at it, it had very little antifreeze in the radator and someone had cut away part of the frame on the right side to get the oil cooler off. Hydraulic tank was half full, engine oil looked fine and at the right level. Belly pans are missing, tracks and sprockets look about 80 percent and chains look good. Put more anti freeze in for over the winter and it didn't appear to leak out. Hour meeter show 6800 hours. Looking for opinions? Thanks Bob
Somebody didn't know that it has a wet flywheel and oil has gotten into your starter which is why it's not working right. Did it have a gasket between the starter and flywheel housing?
No gasket, but never heard of a gasket being their. How does the oil drain back into the pan?
The oil is tranny oil in the bell housing the starter has a seal between the drive gear .and the electrical parts , very common but I am thinking the 3B has a dry setup But I am Not Sure I will check if I can find my book. The one I had would'nt spin fast if you hooked it to a power line.:beatsme:Banghead
This is the parts diagram for a 23Y serial number. #3 is the gasket 3K3257.
There wasn't gasket when removed. Need to find a shop that will check it out.
Looked up the gasket and where it is located. The gasket is on the bolt flange only. I don't see how the gasket would be able to keep anything out of the motor windings. Either way looks like a replacement is 450.
Took the starter to a repair place and they gave it the once over and found nothin wrong with it. Ill reinstal, check cables and connections along with using my truck to help jump it and see if it will turn over faster.
It should have a spec for cranking voltage at the starter... The actual terminal into the starter motor, not the solenoid. It's probably 75 to 85 % of no-load battery voltage. Low cranking voltage could indicate battery trouble, cable trouble, low state of charge, or a starter motor problem. Check for a poor or missing engine to frame ground.
It's not, take it to a decent rebuild shop. The thing has rubber seals inside the solenoid and the starter drive too. That's what shopguy was trying to tell you earlier. If your rebuild shop didn't know that, you need to find another shop. I've taken three of the 24V starters like this to be rebuilt this month and the most expensive one which had everything wrong with it was $275. It was a 1959 model to boot that he had trouble finding the parts for it. An inertia drive Delco 40MT. The gasket only keeps it from leaking to the outside.
The shop guy took everything apart and looked up the specs, its a 12V 4N0421, 4KW. The inside of the motor and solenoid showed only normal wear. The 450 came from my search on the internet, he quoted 310 but did not suggest to get another. I'll see about getting it reinstalled in a few days, been raining hear. Will let you know what happens.
Hi AllDodge, I got a kit on e bay for mine, took it to a re build shop, they gave me a new gasket, but the seal on the shaft could be worn. Also on mine i found a bad wire, hot to the start button. I paid about $90 for the rebuild, and $45 for the kit. good luck, sam.
4N-0241 is the one on a 23Y serial number...
Sorry I didn't notice you listed 23Y mine is a 27Y and I flipped the number on the starter, it is a 2N-0241 On old guys memory thing
That's one of those Nippondenso starters. Never had the umph compared to the Delco 40 or 42MT units. I see new units on ebay for about $250.
Update = Re-installed the starter, checked and cleaned connections. Pulled my diesel pickup next to it and used jumper cables directly to the starter. With the dozer battery at full charge, pickup running and attached I pushed the starter button. It cranked over a little faster but not by much, either way still turning over to slow. Gave it a shot of either and it would sound like it tried to do something with every revolution. It did not stop turning but did slow abruptly for a split second. Appears to do it in the same spot each time but would not swear to it.
I think you have a bad cable coming from your battery, or a bad connection at the battery, or a bad ground connection. Take your jumper cables off and try to start it with just the dozer battery. After you try it, get off and feel every connection at the battery, the ground connections, and the starter connections. Wherever it's hot means that there's a bad connection. It'll get hot, not just warm. Those cables can get fried or corroded; usually at the fittings.
Could anything be making the engine drag? Clutch brake, hydraulic pump blocked or scored up, fan pully bearing, etc?
Hi AllDodge, I had a lota trouble with my starter, The wire was bad that was the hot wire, ran a new wire to start button. Also the cellenoid has a washer that you can reverse to make a better connection, sorta like the old chevys had, 327. If the motor is turning then you may not be getting full power to the start motor. good luck, Ps, i think i took mine in and out about 4 times. sam.
Update to this old thread of mine I put a wrench on the harmonic balancer nut and tried to rotate the engine. I have gotten older and don't have the strength I use to but I could not budge the engine in either direction, even slightly. Looks like I will be pulling the engine and doing a reduild. I believe the 3204 engine does not use sleeves so I'll see if it can be bored and re-sleeved. Will also look into a remanufactured drop in.
How long a wrench did you use? If the starter is turning it at all, I bet that's not the problem. Is everybody sure this is supposed to be 12v? I don't see a lot of 12v cats. Maybe that's a 12v starter housing that somebody rebuilt w/ 24v parts, stranger things have happened. I think before I pulled the engine down, I'd throw 24v at that starter. Even if it is a 12v, it won't hurt it for a few seconds.
The wrench was about 20 inches long and really it did not move one fraction of an inch. The starter is a cat part number 4N0241 which makes it a 4KW 12V motor. Jumping it with two 12V 4D batteries in parrell and another running from my 12V twin battery diesel pickup did nothing more. It all turned the same, only thing left is to pull it as I can see
Yair . . . Dunno AllDodge . You can't budge engine with a twenty inch wrench but the starter turns it slowly . . . must be a pretty good starter I reckon. Can you actually see the fan turn as it's cranking? Be interesting to pull injectors and fill the pots with diesel for a few days. Cheers.
Pull the injectors and see how it spins and maybe take the oil filter off and see if the old gals trying to come apart inside if all that looks ok put some marvel mystery oil down in the holes and let it set for a few days then turn the engine to get the oil back out then see how it spins if ok put the injectors and a filter back on and see what it does.
D3B 28Y s/n does show as having only one 12 volt battery. I agree on removing oil filter to see what if anything is in them and maybe removing injectors to see it it turns fast that way. Like someone else said is there something else other than the engine putting drag on engine?
The fan does turn It has only one battery. I pulled one out of my 955 and used jumper cables to see if two in parrell would do anything extra, and I saw no extra rpm. It sure coulsn't hurt to put diesel, Marvels, etc to see if anything else would show up. This is what's taking me so long to get to this point, I just don't know what else could be putting such a drag on the motor other then a spun or siezed bearing. I'll pull the oil filter and injectors and see if I find anything.
I'm pretty sure rust is the issue. http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt172/AllDodge/Dozer/ValveCover_zpsb53e96cd.jpg This is the underside of the Valve cover http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt172/AllDodge/Dozer/HeadTop_zps21351ed1.jpg Here is the top of the head http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt172/AllDodge/Dozer/Injectors_zpsb00189d1.jpg Injectors number one on right The oil filter was bearly on and not full. After disassembly I can see someone removed everything I did except maybe injectors and put it back together. The exhaust and air intake bolts were hand tight and air filter hose was loose. Figure someone found what I did and said new engine time so they sold it to an auction house.
Yea, guess it's going to need more than a little Marvel Mystery Oil down the injector holes! I think this one needs to come out and a complete disassembly! Looks about like a Perkins I worked on last year in a Kato Genset! At least your will turn over some! I had to pull head and use an air hammer to break pistons free enough to turn engine to dissconnect it from the generator.
Yep, that definitely is a bit rusted. I have a nice low hour D4E sitting in front of the shop with all the rings stuck. She turns over good, and quickly builds oil pressure with the starter, just zero compression. I am planning to re-ring her as soon as I run out of other stuff to do.
Yair . . . That's interesting mitch504 . What circumstances lead to the engine ending up in that condition? Cheers.
The previous owner died, and the widow didn't want his equipment moved from where he left it. For 11 years she paid my brother in law to go once a year and start everything, he just couldn't move anything. One year, the dozer was stuck, and he was able to break it loose by pulling the injectors and filling the cylinders. For the next few years he just spun it, it wouldn't start. They had a nice Austin Western 6x6 grader I had tried to buy for years, one year her children called and said they'd sell the grader, but I had to take the dozer too. The 4-71 in the grader started immediately, but I had to cut trees out of the frame to get it, and replace every hose.
Before you tear it down, try a bit of "goose juice" (ether) and see if it'll start. If so, hook it to something heavy to drag around for an hour or three and see what happens.
I've pulled many engines (auto and boat) but never a CAT engine. This engine has what I think is called a seal belhousing. I figure it has a flywheel but no what to get to bolts on the inside. It's driven by a torque converter but how is it bolted up? How do you disconnect the engine from the transmission?
That I can't answer for sure. .I'm more familiar with older Cats, D2 J &U, D4 T,J and U models. I'd look for books on the critter and see how Cat goes about it. Maybe someone else on here can give a better answer.
If the engine looks like that I'd be worried about the transmission and other parts too. I know you got it cheap but you could still get in too deep with it
Yep, that could be the case but time will tell. Just need to figure out how to take it apart right now to see what I have.
This spring my loader did the same thing,would just barely roll over,would not start.New battery,two battery's,nothing worked.finally my kid says dad is the alternator froze up! ---- YES the fan turned,and yes the alternator was locked up,loosened the belt and she fired right up.Just a thought.
What's the big mystery. Engine is bolted to the flywheel housing. Torque converter is piloted and driven by the internal flywheel teeth much like the old direct drive clutch.
Never removed an engine designed like this. I'm figuring all I need to do is remove the bolts holding it to the transmission and the torque converter will come with it. Originally thinking it would be like a car. Would rotate the engine a little at a time to remove the bolts which connect the torque converter to the flywheel. Since I found nothing in the service manual and there was no inspection plate this could not be the case. Going to try and remove it next week because I need someone besides "just" me to do it. Found a friend willing to help, otherwise I would already have it out