I have a 2021/ 2022 Cat D4 that I keep getting the 1364 code that is the Reagent Concentrate which is a def quality sensor, The dealer has been out 7 or 8 times replacing the def quality sensor several times and also replace the complete DEF header assembly and it still has not solved the problem. The machine only has got the first code 1364 at 89 hours and they put a new DEF header on it and it then ran until 189 hours when this problem started again. Since the 189 hours it has has 2 quality sensors and 3 complete DEF headers, replaced the DEF pump, Def filter and DEF return lines and has now coded the 1389 again at 234 hours. My dealer has talked with cat engineering and they just keep wanting to throw DEF headers at it. Would you have any recommendation of what to look for or try next. If you need you can email me at [email protected] . Any help or info you can give me is greatly appreciated. Replaced 594-8690 Sensor Kit 593-2337 DEF Manifold GP 501-9519 DEF return hose AS 611-6017 DEF Pump AS
Could you post the machine serial number please? Also, take a picture of the screen showing the active diagnostic events/codes. If you know what the def fluid concentration is by using a refractometer, post that as well. Software numbers for the engine and def controller could also come in handy.
It's in the thread title - JPH00659.
Ok I didn’t look at the title, my mistake.
If I were working on this machine I’d be watching regen temps and making sure my NRS system is working correctly. Egr valve function, NRS cooler is clear, EBPV (exhaust butterfly valve) is working correctly, etc. Heat plays a big part in Nox emission reduction. I would also look at the DEF injector and make sure it is functioning correctly.
The machine software is all up to date, cat has been out and ran several test on the complete system and everything is checking out fine. The Def quality was either 30 or 33 is what I think they said when they tested it yesterday.
I will try and get the software # when I'm back at the machine tomorrow.
Just to clarify, E1389 events are just an operator advisory thing. They inform the operator an inducement (performance derate) is occurring because of a fault, just incase the operator doesn't already know it. I believe this is required to comply with emissions regulations. What we really care about are the associated codes (codes that become active at or around the same time as these events). In your case it appears to be a 3100-2 for the DEF quality sensor. Looking at your diagnostics screen, there is nothing active there. Is the 3100-2 code still going active alongside the E1389? Your dealer can probably see this over the air, so it's no point us guessing here unless you post a picture of ALL your active diagnostics. I disagree. Reading through the invoice you posted I can see them working through this methodically. They escalated it early to Cat engineering which is the best course of action. If machine is still covered by warranty I'd stick at it and report back to Carolina Cat. Please keep us in the loop.
@Chrisso i completely agree with you. Initially we were given the impression that they were just throwing parts at it. After reading the posted invoicing, that’s definitely not the case which is why I have nothing to offer here. As far as I’m concerned, they’re doing their due diligence in this matter.
They have been talking with CAT engineering as I'm still getting the 1364 and 3100-2 codes and with everything they have tried they are back to wanting to install another DEF quality sensor that we have been waiting over a week for it to come in. The 1364 code came active again at 234 hours, we reset it and them the 3100-2 come on again at 236 hours.
Cat came out and put a new DEF quality sensor that was straight from the factory that had been redesigned with new parameters where it was not supposed to be as sensitive and it only lasted 3 hour before it gave the 1364 code again
Keep us updated, I’d say it’s a good thing Cat engineering is involved with this one. I know how irritating it is when the parts that are supposed to fix it don’t and there’s no good explanation for it.
Someone needs to look at the coolant diverter valve on this. I don't see where any testing has been done to see if the DEF has been overheated. DEF will start to gas off ammonia at 85 or 90 degrees and will absolutely destroy components in the fluid handling side of the system (especially headers). I've seen diverter valves that are very intermittent on failures. They can also be installed backwards, and if they are they will flow coolant full time. The DCU will code for DEF tank temp high, but by the time it does, the damage is done.
Problems like this must be incredibly frustrating for the techs. that have to try and fix them. At what point should a loaner machine be provided or even a replacement machine?
It is like you've tried a lot already with the DEF system. Given the recurring issues, I'd recommend checking for any potential wiring or sensor connection issues that could be causing the intermittent problems. Sometimes, single serve coffee pods faulty connector or wiring can cause sensors to malfunction despite replacing the components. It might be worth having a technician inspect that, especially around the areas where the sensors are connected.
This may be a silly question but has the DEF itself been flushed out and replaced? Specifically with fresh DEF, straight out a new container that has been stored correctly? What does the DEF look like in a clear bottle to the naked eye? I've dealt with DEF issues with different brands of DEF, possibly stored poorly, not being clear enough causing the sensor to read incorrectly
The tech has checked the wiring forward and backwards by ohming it and pulling an all connections and checking all plugs. They have flushed the def system several times. They have recently cam out and installed a new DCU but just got a chance to run it today for about 4 hours and will run it some more tomorrow. They also finally brought me out a loaner machine to run if my codes again. I have been trying to get them to trade me out of this one but not had any luck with getting cat to step up and put some money towards it so I don't loose so much on my end but just trading it.
That's the prcedure Cat always recommends, testing the reistance of a wire (or wires). I'm not sure I agree with that way of doing it, because a wire inside a harness may literally be "hanging on by a thread" can pass a resistanct/continuity test 99% of the time. All it needs is to have continuity on one strand. I got caught that way a few times and went looking for a more reliably way of testing than the Cat troubleshooting procedures. What I prefer to do is unplug the connectors at both ends of a particular wire, jumper one end of it to machine frame ground, then connect a fused 3A or 5A test light from battery+ to the other end. If a wire will pass either 3A or 5A of current withpout going pop then in my opinion it's good. YMMV.