Good day everyone! Hope all is well and running well this summer! I have 1990 Cat D5 high drive either with a final drive or rail issue. It looks to me like the final drive is bending down and the rail is moving closer to the drive. My question is has anyone seen something like this before and is it something I can fix or is it a major overhaul. Mechanics up north are a pretty penny... Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I attached a picture on both sides of the final drive the side that is damaged I can't fit a finger in between drive and rail. Thanks
Pivot shaft bushes failed. It's an LGP. Do you really need the low ground pressure feature, because that's one factor that could have contributed to the failure.
Thanks for the quick response... no I don't need the lgp. Why does that contribute to the failure...Tracks to heavy? Is this repair do able i have an old excavator to do the heavy work.
The width of the track gauge (wider than a standard machine) plus the wide pads puts far more strain on the pivot shaft on anything other than really soft ground. I really can't understand why people buy LGP tractors, run them in hard ground, and wonder why the undercarriage falls apart. Got a machine Serial Number.?
C&C Equipment on YouTube has some good videos on replacing the pivot shaft bushings and equalizer bar bushings. The videos are on a Deere but you'll get the idea.
Right on ill check that out... thanks JS
My thought is you have more than a bushing failure I would say shaft is shot also. Shaft on those don't run all the way thru machine
Fyi At one time our machine shop used to weld the worn shafts up and re machine them
I was thinking the same thing, but was waiting for the machine Serial Number to look up some parts drawings so we can see exactly what the OP has under that yellow paint.
Thanks Pittsburgh.. if the shaft is worn would that mean everything else is worn out on that shaft like bearings, seals ext?
Hey nige the serial number wore off or broke off. I can't find it not sure where the heck it is i thought it would be stamped in the metal some where.
There are only Two bushings and a rubber seal. As for the serial number should be stamped on rear of case winch might be covering it up
If you can't find a Serial Number on the tractor is there one on the engine.? might be able to find the machine S/N from that.
if the bushings have failed really bad there is the possibility that the bore in the track frame has been damaged.
Right on fellas.. I'll check that out on the engine get back to you. Anyway you guys know the shaft diameter thickness how much can it be out before machining? If the shaft is bent is that leaning towards replacing?
No doubt a bent Dead Shaft, the bushings might also be worn and the Track Frame journal might be damaged, behind the cap on the frame is another cap keeping the frame in place on the Dead Shaft it will possibly have lots of bolts snapped off, you will need to fit a new shaft the Ting Tong ones are O.K. and about 1/4 the price of CAT.
I'm betting it will be 12Zxxxxx, probably somewhere around 37000.
Thanks TC for the info...these ting Tong shafts can you steer me in the right direction where to find those?
Hey nige will this serial number work looks like the trans?
Took a bit of searching but yes. Transmission S/N 1RE1710 was installed in a D5H tractor Serial Number 1DD00563, built in early January 1988. So the tractor is a couple of years older than you thought it was. The engine Serial Number should be 12Z24354. See attached. What it takes is to first find the machine Serial Number (see above) which then leads to the appropriate parts diagrams for that particular machine and to the P/N of the Pivot (Dead) Shaft - 8G-5797. See the second attachment that contains all the Part Numbers for the RH track frame and pivot assembly. With the 8G-5797 Pivot shaft P/N you can now start searching for aftermarket "Ting Tong" equivalents. The third attachment is the Removal & installation instructions. This is not an easy task. For a start it will need the push arms/blade removed, then the track has to be split. Be prepared for problems removing the end pin of the Equalizer Bar (Steps 3, 4, & 5).
Thank you nige for all that info greatly appreciate it. I have the Track completely off working on getting the equalizer bar pin out tomorrow. Definitely a bent shaft from what it looks like front bushings look good in the Track Frame.
I suppose the $64k question at this point is what type of abuse the machine was being subjected to in order to bend the pivot shaft like that.? Especially in view of the fact that the LH side of the machine looks OK.
Pretty impressive bending one of those
I agree, especially by that much. Hence my question as to *** was the operator doing to bend it.? I'm fairly certain that the LGP undercarriage setup is involved somehow.
I sure would like to see pictures when it’s apart
I see a ton of older LGP dozers for sale and always wonder how many people that buy them actually need them. I also wonder if a simple shoe change would make them hold up the same as a standard machine or if the wider gauge would work against you too much?
Something like this comes to mind
I’ll guess that it’s been hung up on a tree stump or rock. As for the age of the tractor,the serial number found on the transmission may not match the chassis? Just a thought. Looks like the machine is nice enough and well worth fixing.
Here in the UK,it’s virtually unheard of to find any tractor smaller than a D8 that’s not lgp. We have such a diverse mix of weather and material that running std undercarriage would see your dozer often stood fir 6 months or more.
I guy I know who does some work for me was using the dozer to push some top soil clean up some area for a septic field. The area he was clearing was pretty soft and down in a bog with lots of dead trees and massive stumps. I am not sure how he managed to do it...in my opinion he hooked it some how on a massive stump and turning aggressively at the same time and didnt let off. He has been a cat skinner for years but uses nothing less then a d6 to d8 . What are your guys thoughts because I am thinking now that he might have to pay for this? I'll send you guys pictures of the shaft.
As I stated on my previous post,I think it’s been hung up on a stump or rock. I’m not experienced enough to have seen any other reason for that kind of damage. As for apportioning blame,that’s going to be an unpleasant ride for all parties. Can you get some pics of the underside of the tractor,specifically noting any scuffs or fresh dents etc in the belly guards. There’s a story to tell from the driver if you can find him! That little lot didn’t just happen
Yep, same with up here in northern canada lots of bogs and muskeg thays where the lgp come in handy i am assuming.
It always a good policy to not jump to any ideas that might have or have not caused a mechanical issue, most often a failed Dead Shaft started to fail before your last Child was born, the inner cap bolts can often be found snapped off, it would be a fare guess to think the shaft has started to snap through so when was the oil level last checked on the shaft pivot, that is the 1/2" square drive plugs facing forward, don't be fast to blame other people for something that they probably had no hand in, by the way if it has the inner mount PAT Blade it rules out poor use of the blade, to pop off a Track Frame from an early D5 or D6 Hy-Drive would take me about 3 hours if the Beam pin was a pig.
It always a good policy to not jump to any ideas that might have or have not caused a mechanical issue, most often a failed Dead Shaft started to fail before your last Child was born, the inner cap bolts can often be found snapped off, it would be a fare guess to think the shaft has started to snap through so when was the oil level last checked on the shaft pivot, that is the 1/2" square drive plugs facing forward, don't be fast to blame other people for something that they probably had no hand in, by the way if it has the inner mount PAT Blade it rules out poor use of the blade, to pop off a Track Frame off an early D5 or D6 Hy-Drive would take me about 3 hours if the Beam pin was a pig, there looks a lack of oil in the pictures as the housing should be brim full.
I'd like to see some good photos of the two bushes (arrowed) in the track frame on which the pivot shaft runs. I find it hard to believe that they "look good" as per the OP in Post #21.
I agree on not coming to a conclusion and pointing fingers but on the other hand I was operating the machine the day prior for 6 hours in the same area with no issues. When you rent heavy equipment in Canada you sign your life away and it pretty much says besides wear and tear whatever you breaky you buy... It's an old machine and it was definitely lacking oil in the housing thats my fault for not checking... didn't get the Track Frame off yet hopefully tomorrow ill have pics of the bushings. Ya it's definitely not a pain in the arse to work on.. finning discontinued the pivot shaft for that year of cat so they gave me the used parts email they are looking for me crossing fingers. Does anyone know of any good sites to look for Ting Tong? Thanks again everyone for all the help!
Try looking on Machinery Trader Parts HERE . It shows availablility but that is no guarantee the parts are actually available. A couple of calls would confirm that though.
Here are another couple of options. New 8G5797 Shaft A Replacement suitable for Caterpillar Equipment Buy Online $1841.99 | No Core Charge | No Hassle Returns & 1 Year Warranty | Ships Out Today - Order By 3pm EST | Discounted Ground & Overnight Shipping Available propelparts.us Caterpillar Pivot Bar Shaft, 8G5797 Interchanges OEM Caterpillar Number 8G5797 www.agkits.com
I would check with the Universal Parts man for that!
Thanks guys for the info ill check it out. Got a nice day of sunshine today going to tackle that track frame. Happy 4th of July fellas!!
Good day everyone! Finally finish removing the Track Frame and post the final results on the pivot shaft. The back bushings look good to me but pivot shaft not so much it's cracked looks like it's ready to snap off. I am assuming I should replace the bushings as well they still look good but they are probably worn.
Ouch. I wonder if a welding or machine shop could repair that. Might be worth a try. Of course you'd have to take it apart if it broke again so that'll play into the decision.
Impressive I can't ever remember seeing one do that.
Looks like it broke at a weld. Hard to be sure from a Pic though.
Thats a possibility to weld her up make it true again probably save alot of money. Still sourcing a few pivot shafts up here in canada. Canadian dollar to American is in the ***** can't wait to be the 51st boys no more exchange rate were on par baby!!
If you are proposing to fit a new shaft you should definitely install new bushings and seals in the track frame. I wouldn't even contemplate it TBH, not with a component as critical as that. The difficulty is that any weld repair would be hidden and thus unable to be inspected. Worst comes to worst a high-cycle fatigue crack could develop inside the shaft and the first you know about it is when the shaft fails. It most likely won't deform like the current shaft has done, which gave you advance warning something was wrong, it will simply let go - probably in the most inconvenient of locations........
I would check with either of these 2 places Monday but they list on machinery trader so if you do a parts search there it will bring up about anywhere in the world that has them. You may wind up having to find a good used part. Near the parts search on machinery trader you can also search for dismantled machines Replacement Parts | Knoxville, TN | Regal USA Regal USA, located in Knoxville, TN, is a worldwide distributor of machine parts. Call to place your order today! www.regalcorpusa.com Replacement Parts for Heavy Equipment | ACTParts ACTParts is a worldwide supplier of heavy equipment parts offering a complete range of solutions to meet your needs at an affordable cost. www.actparts.com
I’m not 100% certain but reasonably sure that shaft is a 1-piece forging. My suspicion is a fatigue crack, probably started at a discontinuity in the forging. Can you get any good quality photos of the edges and the inside of the crack, especially right at the bottom.
Sounds good nige thats what I thought it was a full machine job on those shafts no welds...right on 1466 ill take a look into those. I'll get some better pictures for ya where it split looks like it's right at the bushings edge.
Another thought that may not have crossed your mind, and back to the question I asked regarding whether or not you really needed the LGP setup over a standard track. The pivot shaft on an LGP tractor is probably a foot longer than the equivalent shaft on a standard track machine, simply to space the track frames out far enough so that the track shoes clear the machine frame. Imagine how much additional stress that puts on the pivot shaft.
Definitely got me thinking about that. Thats crazy an extra foot. I think i might take the old girl to the auction or sell because I don't need the lgp after I fix the shaft. You think the would make the shaft more beefy for lgp. Here some close ups of the crack might be able to get a better Pic at night inside the split.
It certainly is more beefy. The 8G-5797 Shaft for your machine comes in at 61.5kg, the 8G-5798 Shaft for a "conventional" undercarriage machine only weighs 51kg. An LGP machine is designed to operate on soft ground. The only reason for the wider "stance" and wider track shoes compared to standard is to provide additional flotation to prevent the tractor from sinking. Take an LGP tractor and put it on hard ground and the stresses transmitted through the undercarriage must be double or even more compared to soft-ish ground. No matter how much the pivot shaft is beefed up it is not going to resist impacts like that for ever. EDIT: See this illustration taken from the D5H Specification sheet for more perspective.
Great info nige! Thanks for that... this cat was on pipelines before we purchased it so I would imagine it was dealing with bogs pushing trees, cutting bush.. makes sense why they wanted lgp. I've tried to hunt this pivot shaft down and non of the suppliers in north america can find one including the internet suppliers...I might have found one on ebay but not sure if thats legit plus they want $7000 for it. Does anyone think this 8G-5797 is a different part # now could I search a newer year of d5 LGP possibly be the same pivot shaft ? How much has the undercarriage changed on the cat LGP?
These guys claim to have one in stock, at least according the their web site. Caterpillar Pivot Bar Shaft, 8G5797 Interchanges OEM Caterpillar Number 8G5797 www.agkits.com
Thanks Nige.. ill call them tomorrow not sure if they ship to canada.
Wow, for that price, I wonder if you could have one made. I would check with the Universal Parts guy, see if he could source one.
That's aftermarket price. New they are priced North of $5k, but not available unfortunately.
Pardon Our Interruption Might give them a call. Says they have a D5H LGP being dismantled.
I would take TC,s advise on this, the photos don't show enough detail but it looks like rust on the inside of that crack which means it has been there for a while
Thanks JS ill take a look into that. Probably have to wait till Monday.
I forgot to mention is this normal... there is oil leaking out of the bolt holes where the pivot shaft bolts onto and where is the oil coming from?
I am not 100% sure when I took that photo it could have been a day after the track frame came off. It's been raining up north here pretty much every day. Could rust form that quick not sure?
Don't let me sound a Dummy but you might want to put your bolts back in the holes to stop an oil slick, often the Dead Shaft bolts are very tight and take a good effort to undo them, the frame bushings are not a bad price Non OE, and as you are probably going Non OE on the shaft it will all be from the same pot, sometimes the back seal can be confusing to how it fits so ask if you are unsure, the important thing is to check the bolts that hold the end plate home and fill via the plug the oil chamber, if you still have work for the Tractor keep it as it's a lot handier than a Standard Spec Tractor, that shaft has probably been failing for some time and is not common to happen even on LGP Spec.
In that photo above that vertical welding on that plate on the right of the image next to the flange does not look very OEM quality. Also that burnt paint.
It appears as though maybe a crack in the frame has been repaired. I see something going off at 45-degrees upwards and to the right of the pivot shaft mounting. A photo showing about 6” further up the frame than the one in Post #62 might be interesting.
Haha no worries I pulled a dummy haha your right I encountered an oil slick the next morning I thought a little pail would do the job because it wasnt dripping that bad but I was wrong should of known better. I am still confused where is that oil coming from and why is it coming out from the bolt holes? I thought it was a dry fit on pivot shafts? I can't find one pivot shaft in North America for this Cat I think it's discontinued. JS430 sent me a link for D5 LGP getting parted out but now I am thinking will it fit do I even take the chance how many years was this pivot shaft made for.
There were several places dismantling D5H LGP machines. I just sent the one link. Google Machinary Trader Dismantled Machines, they have a good search function once you learn how to use it. They offer serial #'s for most equipment being wrecked out.
This one looks promising. It is very close to the OP's Serial Number (1DD00863 vs 1DD00563) and it's a Cat dealer that is dismantling it. It's actually the dealer that HEF member @CM1995 deals with. He may know someone there. Pardon Our Interruption
Right on JS430 and Nige thanks for the info ill play around with machinery site.
Well, what caused that... Either it fell of a transport or fell from a ravine/crane... all evidence is there, my analisis from pictures , it looks it was bent before it broke, also the repair in the main frame and the oil leak, oil is coming from TXM housing , either a crack or welds with porosity. Finding a pivot shaft shouldn´t be that dificult, as most machines of that series era were LGP´s junk yards should be full of those. But if u can´t a good machined part will last forever, as long as its made of good tool steel, and stell is still afordable, even if u have to heat treat the bushing contact , certainly will not be 5K
Thanks MQ for the info. Kind of a silly question but just want to make it clear there isn't suppose to be oil coming from the bolt holes thats the TXM housing? Still hunting down a pivot shaft.. i got a quote up north here for machined shaft the quoted me at 8000....yuck!
If you find a pivot shaft, make sure it has been NDT for cracks, just saying you never know, was a NDT Inspector for many years seen a lot
The D&A for the pivot shafts tells us to first drain the transmission oil. So yes, you should expect oil from the holes.
James Gaughan & Sons Ltd." < [email protected] , Call this fellas, they have LGP parts, with shipping and taxes should be half that. 8k for a part like that... Damm one can really make money in north america.
Yes,James Gaughan and son would very likely have the parts. They are a legit company with 50 years of experience in shipping parts all over the world. Sue Kelly is the woman to speak to that heads up the parts department here in the UK
You might want to revise the part about Sue Kelly as she no longer is on the end of the phone, James is now being helped by his partner (Wife?) who is doing really well at sorting out the parts side of things.
Oh heck Tony,I didn’t know that. It’s been a couple of years I guess since if needed anything off her. An end of an era I suppose. I hope she is well. Good to here young James is still up there
Right on! Thanks everyone and cmark for the photo...ill give them a try tomorrow. Id say Mq the machine shops where I am living are hard to come by so they can charge what they want to charge i guess.