I have a D5H Sn#8RJ05061 that the T/C overheats while ONLY in 1st forward and 1st reverse. When you change gears either going forward or backwards the temperature comes right down. I see that they both share #5 clutch pack. Is there a possibility there's a seal blown in the clutch pack? Does anyone have any advice or have had the same issue?
It's easy enough to check. Do you have any pressure gauges that will read to around 500psi.? Two would be ideal but you could get by with one.
Yes i do have gauges
See the attached procedure. You need to hook up a gauge on the Speed Clutch (P1) pressure tap and a second gauge on the Direction Clutch (P2). Get all the systems up to normal operating temperature and take measurements of P1 & P2 in all three speeds both FWD & REV. Note how P1 & P2 respond when you make a directional or speed shift. They should dip and then recover, but how fast do they recover.?
Ok, thanks. I will do this tomorrow or Saturday and post you my results
Based on what you described of the symptoms I would suspect that you will find a higher P1 pressure in 2nd & 3rd speeds than you do in 1st speed. I am also betting that P1 will dip further and take longer to recover when you select 1st speed either forward or reverse.
If the pressures do what you say does that mean it needs clutch pack seals? Is this pressure check done while stalling or just when moving normally?
Probably it will need friction discs & plates for #5 clutch, new clutch piston seals for all the other clutches, and anything else it needs (bearings, thrust washers, gaskets, etc) while you are in there. Let's face it if you have to pull the transmission to access #5 clutch, you might as well do a job of it while you are in there...... You might need to hold the tractor against the brakes or some hard & unyiedling object. It could possibly drive through the brakes in 1st speed - or maybe not considering the problems you are currently experiencing. 2nd & 3rd speed the brakes should have no problem holding it.
Here is what i came up with on the pressures P1 1st gear 150 lo idle 325hi idle 2nd gear 360 lo idle 390hi idle 3rd gear 360 lo idle 390hi idle P2 1st gear 75 lo idle 275hi idle 2nd gear 325 lo idle 340 hi idle 3rd gear 325 lo idle 340 hi idle These pressures were all done without stalling or holding the brakes. Just the pressures while moving across open area. The pressures in first gear are definitely slower at recovering/responding than the other gears. Is there a need to check the pressures again while stalling?
Testing the pressures at torque converter stall RPM is the only way to do it for the results to mean anything. Remember you need to take measurements of P1 & P2 for all three speeds in both forward and reverse directions. Also the tractor needs to be fully warmed up, both coolant and transmission oil, to normal operating temperature.
Ok, here's what I have come up with. P1 1st 150 lo idle stall 350 hi idle stall 2nd 375 lo idle stall 385 hi idle stall 3rd 375 lo idle stall 390 hi idle stall P2 1st 125 lo idle stall 250 hi idle stall 2nd 325 lo idle stall 340 hi idle stall 3rd 325 lo idle stall 340 hi idle stall Pressures were the same in the forward gears vs reverse gears
OK. That confirms the pressures on the forward direction clutch are way low. With P1 @ 350psi in 2st speed (which in itself is low, should be around 370 minimum) P2 should be no less than 295psi. So it looks as though both FWD direction and 1st speed clutches are slipping. Transmission out time........
Ok, do you think there is a possibility that it could just be the #5 clutch pack as it seems to be the only common denominator for the pressure being low? As it uses the #2 clutch pack in other gears? I know I'll put them all in but I'm just looking for some clarification.
As I said earlier whether it is one clutch pack or all five you're going to have to pull the transmission out of the machine either way. While you have it out of the machine you might as well go right the way through it from one end to the other. Usually it's only the #3 clutch (3rd speed) that is worth saving. The other four are generally toast to a greater or lesser extent. #5 clutch (1st speed) and #2 clutch (FWD direction) are the two that usually get worn the most. All five clutch pistons should get new seals. How many total hours does the tractor have on it and do you have any idea if the transmission has ever been out before.? That might give you some idea of the level of carnage you are going to find when you disassemble it.
It has a tag riveted on to the transmission where it's been out and rebuilt before. But I do not know how many hours ago that was. Do you know if cat offers a clutch/seal kit?
By a Cat dealer or somebody else.? Can you post a photo of the tag.? If a dealer did the rebuild there is always a possibility to be able to get the date/machine hours from the Work Order Number. Unfortunately no. The only kits on offer are a transmission gasket/seal kit and a transmission bearing kit. I would say you need a Parts Manual and a Service Manual to get the information you require to start making decisions. Parts Manual is Cat Publication reference SEBP2024. Service Manual is SENR3250.
Do you have the part numbers for those kits?
Here are a couple of links to Parts & Service Manuals on eBay at much less than new prices. You're going to need both of them, even if you sell them again straight after you finish the transmission overhaul........... PARTS MANUAL SERVICE MANUAL
HY there, i´ve been there, but mine was much worst as it came out to be all sealing in TXM , brakes and clutches, and charge pump. Resealled mine and replaced some frictions and some other gadgets inside that did not look ok. What astonishes me at the time was the radial seals(seal rings)on oil gallery feed to #5 clutch pack, (well 1st gear clutch). I didn´t had specs book, but despite i could not say they are off by whatever i got the impression that they were off, as i could never operate the clutch with compressed air, unless it was filled with lots of oil, anyway machine is now working fine and puling great. In your case everithing points out to a leak at #5, either the piston seals or ring seals gallery, take your time and get the specs for this, as nige said TXM ou time. To me its the weekest spot on this TXM, not to mention those tiny 6 Clutch hold bolts. good luck
Nige, I pulled the transmission out and went through it. It all looked to be in pretty good shape except the piston seals. I went ahead and replaced the clutches even though they were only wore .04-.08 thousandths. But one thing we did find was that one of the #5 piston clutch seals were installed backwards. I've only used/ pushed dirt for about 30-40 min since rebuilding. The trans temp stayed about 20 degrees warmer than the engine temp. So time will tell. Thanks again for all your help.
So if the engine coolant was at 190F then the trans was around 210F.? How high did the trans temp get.? I'm glad it worked out for you.
Correct, the engine temperature was 170F and the transmission temperature was right under 190F. I never could get the trans temp to hit 190F.
Maybe you also need to take a look at the cooling system because 170F sounds too low. The correct temperature regulator for your tractor is a 111-8010 that should be fully open (3/8" of movement) by 196F. Maybe what is in there now is not the correct P/N or could be defective.?