We are pricing a job that will involve renting a CAT D6R, but everybody has different ideas on how much fuel to allow for it using an hour or 8 hours in average and hard work. Can anyone help, preferably in litres or UK gallons, but can convert if necessary?
If I remember right the ones we had (LGP Series III with the C9 engine) would burn 8-9 gallons an hour pushing dredge spoils, maybe a bit more if the going was really soft. Figures to 30-35 litres. Pierson had a couple on one job we were on that were turned way up- man would they push but had to be refueled at 2 o'clock break!
I wouldn't worry too much Johnny, when you ring around and get a few quotes for the Dozer it'll be that cheap you won't worry about fuel! Hearing rumours of £450 a week!! How about a Cat 318c Rubber Duck for £400 a week self drive!! We need these nutters to go down fast!!
Blimey, we run with hewdens and a plant hire place at Lincoln, even Hewdens don't get that cheap. The D6 at Lincoln turns out at about £1000 week self drive which is a bit pricey, ridgways quoted about the same. We're a bit limited in Lincolnshire for choice, and transport kills it to bring in from too far.
D6 tractors If you are stuck for a few phone N's of cheap D6's I might be able to help, as there is plenty running about the Birmingham area that need a new patch of dirt under their boots, on the fuel question? a D6H/R on hard work is as close to an alcholic as they come, they all need another drink in the afternoon,the worst case expect to see off 7 gallons Imp per hour, every push of about 120 ft would cost about 50p we reckon, tctractors
Thanks for that tctractors, I'll bear that in mind, again the transport nails it a bit for only a weeks work or a few days but its worth knowing anyway. We don't have that many dozers in our area as work is scarce for them.
Johnny, there is nothing special about the lowloader to move a 6R only the permit, I cant believe that ringing around a few firms wont get you a competitive price for both the tractor and a move. The 2 names you mention are probably the last I would dream of calling. Take tc up on his offer you might be very suprised. A low loader move of 200miles will not cost much more than one for 50miles, it still takes the same amount of time to load and unload and provided you havent got a lot of major obstructions a permit is much the same. Fuel now thats a different thing altogether.
I also have the option of some local machines with a driver with it which is handy if my drivers are busy and less fuss, but i've still got too fuel the machine for them. I'd always dissmissed machines from further away because of access to fitters and transport charge, but if the price is right its worth entertaining.
Low Loaders I loved reading the permit bit there AtlasRob, most of the Muck Monkeys I know seem to "not bother" with this item, if the job is only a few days work, it might need a re-think, I would of thought that a D6 size tractor easy to find around the Lincoln area????. tctractors
hi guys, noticed you spoke about permits to move a d6. in NSW, australia, i can move machines up to 3.5 metres wide without any special permit, a $70 permit which lasts for a year lets me gross 18 tonnes over the drive rather than the normal 16 tonnes and 35 tonnes over the quad on the trailer instead of the normal 32 tonnes, this permit can only be obtained for low loaders with a deck height of maximum 1 metre. IE, it is intended only for low loaders hauling earthmoving equipment.
Got to agree with Rob on the transport front, I bet TC will fix you up with the number of a busy Low Loader Operator who will get one over for sensible money. We have a busy guy over our way who moves for the Rail firms, Long reach boys and anyone else who will pay and it wouldn't take him many days to fit one in if your delivery date is flexible. If you go to the 'showtime' and look at my latest pics under 'Dirty Weekend' the last pic is of one of his outfits. He runs some nice tackle. Could I be cheeky and ask why you think the application demands a D6R? Only a D5lgp pat bade would tidy up some serious muck up and work out cheaper on every front. Only a thought before you all start jumping all over me I never said the D5 would replace a D6, if you need to push muck they are poles apart!
The D5. Eddie, the D5 LGP is a great little piece of kit for its size and can scoot about like a road-runner, they are also very good on fuel cost's and a lot better bet when things are tight, I did hear today from a pal that is working in London (opposite the Dartford Tunnel) with his D6 and Komatsu 290 that a very large outfit with a dogs breed for a name is poking out D6R/Ts with driver for about £28 ph. tctractors
28 pounds per hour????:throwup
Let em all go for it I say!:Banghead I heard about a Cat 318 Rubber Duck for £400 a week self drive:beatsme and that took some believing. I could understand it's on a sewer job and probably won't come to any harm, but it's still hours on the clock for nothing. But any Dozer is a different story. If you fitted a clock inside that registered how much undercarriage/ blade/engine/transmission etc cost you are pushing off it every hour then I think that £28 is going to look a bit sick!! I don't really even want to say this but Operator rates do still seem to be holding up for now! Maybe when the undercarriages are worn out and there's nowt of that £28 left then we'll start getting it too
£28 per hour, thats not worth getting out of bed for. We were paying that for D6M's 4 years ago in our area without fuel!
What! you mean people move equipment without all the proper paperwork tut, tut, whatever next I could never condone such a thing ( least not in print ) Yes,........ but you were looking to hire in.......... not out :drinkup
oh yeah its good for me, not so good for the industry though!
My machine is stood at the moment as I've declined to work nights on a road for the rate I set, which happens to be what the same machines were getting in 2000. :beatsme The problem we are all aware of though is that some companies will keep dropping the rates to get the machines out of the yard. As Eddie states, once the running gear is worn out and the regular maintenance program suddenly catches up, MAYBE these people will realise the negativity of thier ways. :beatsme In the mean time if you have work and need to cross hire some plant :drinkup
We're lucky really, we are Civil engineering contractors so all our plant only works on our own jobs. I feel for you plant hire lads I really do, I don't envy you at all. Only yesterday, one of our local medium sized operators went bust, been in business for over 20 years. People are travelling from all over to rob work off local lads for peanut rates and our local boys can't compete. Unfortunatly I think a lot more of our local lads and bigger boys are going to go under before the year is out. On a lighter note, how do you rate your rubber duck, have only sat in one at hillhead 18months ago so have never driven one, heard atlas was one of the best previously.
Search " I broke it " in excavators Seriously if you read that thread and then find out I didnt pay a penny it renews your faith in service the machine was out of warranty on hours and age! I can fault the old Atlas and I can fault the new ones but they are minor issues, like catching your heel in the air vent under the seat and breaking it off because they moved it from the side to the front :Banghead nowhere flat to put a mug of tea, solved that bought a tippy cup New cab is supposed to be level floor so you can sweep it out easily, so they fit a bar in the door to hold the mat in place Power, balance / stability, service backup :notworthy I've run Atlas since 2001 when I bought a 95 model then a 97 then an 03, now an 07 and I have no desire or wish to change. They do what it says on the box and that works for me Should clarify those are year of manufacture NOT series numbers.
We really wanted a CAT M312 when we bought our EX135W but couldn't find one in our price bracket for love nor money. We tried allsorts from Daewoos to Hyundais to Komatsus. We still wish we'd found a CAT at times, but still like our Hitachi, its just a little unreliable and slow on the road, but otherwise brilliant. Next time we shall up our budget a little more to widen our scope a bit.
People often ask why I bought Atlas, the honest answer is after a very long time looking for 'A' duck I came across the 1304m from a reliable source close by and an ex Atlas fitter was on hand to check it over and provide advice and support. If your run a Ford car you know you will get a better trade in deal at a Ford dealership than a Vauxhall, same applies to plant in my experience. I have two friends who ran Leibherr ducks ( different models in different parts of the country) for 3yrs but now have a Volvo each. One traded and stayed with ducks the other had his nicked and went back to tracks. :beatsme I know of another guy who bought a 14t Hyundai duck ( boy did we all laugh ) about 8 yrs ago, and is still earning nearly as much as me an hour with that same machine. Whos laughing now :Banghead, I wont slag off any make of duck and have driven quite a few different ones over the years, they all have thier faults and we all have our favourites. It really is a case of what works for you at the time. Availability, backup, cost, specification, street cred The only advise I would give when you are ready to change is demo the ones you like ( ignore the BS from the sales guys TEST em ) and get a VA boom, until you have used one you dont appreciate the difference and come sale time the European market is open to the machine. Good to know you sorted the water problem :drinkup
I was interested in a VA boom next time, when its back is arched it has a lot better visibility out of the right window for at junctions. We've already cleaned up one seat ibiza on the road with ours at a junction. Machine turned right to turn off a main road onto a side road and some pillock tried over taking and felt the full force of a 6 foot dyking bucket down the side of his car. No fault of our driver really, but better visibility on the road has to be a good thing. We work in a lot of limited headroom areas as well.
Why CAT 312m ? Johnny, I have been following your thoughts on 'Duck' selection with Rob and nearly fell off the chair when you said you would have preferred a CAT 312m. I,m not going to slag em off just yet but really puzzled why you were drawn towards this model. Just a guess do you run other CAT machines and have no real problems with them and good backup service? Really interested in what you preferred over others you tried.
We run several cat machines and have found it to be some of the best gear on the market. It isn't cheap and our uk dealer can be expensive on service, but overall we find it to be the most reliable, robust and powerfull kit on the market. We had a M312 from Hewdens for 4 months on a job of ours and it was a better machine than our ex135w. Quicker down the road, more powerfull little bit better laid out. We also looked at Daewoo, hyundai, komatsu volvo, but couldn't find anything that could cut the mustard against the CAT for shear balls out performance. At the time when we bought the hitachi, I only had a budget of £30K to buy a machine so my choice was very limited, ended up buying a semi wreck for £24K and spent £6K doing it up, but it looks well now. We also run a CAT 428D it will far out class another machine for power both front and back end, just a little heavy and unbalanced. Just hired an 08 432E from Hewdens today, man it is some piece of kit, it has all the power and controll of the old one but much better balanced. A lot of lads around us are now going onto CAT due to poor reliability, no power and a very poor local dealer from another jellow machine. We have also just bought a new 301.8 mini from CAT and it way outperforms our old bobcat X322. Bobcat couldn't come near this machine for power and price to be fair. Could have looked at other machines but when we totted up how many people made 1.5 tonners it was over 20 manufacturers and we could't try them all so went with the CAT to try it. But it has turned out to be one hell of a little digger. We try to keep an open mind on every thing when buying, with us not hiring as such we don't need cheap so much for hire rates, but productivity, and CAT gives us this. There isn't a manufacturer on the market that you don't hear bad reports about, but touch would all of our machines have run with very little problems and have out performed anything else we have tried. But this is just us, other people have probably had countless problems with machine and service, we've maybe just been lucky!!!
I've honestly never liked the balance or layout of the Cat 'Ducks', but if you had one for 4 months and wanted to buy one then it must have performed well in your application. Funny you mention the 432E as I'm driving a 3 month old one at the moment (not much else about and I'm glad of it!). As you say they are a vast improvement over the D series, with honestly only two niggles. The first is the 'roller switch' instead of a foot pedal for the extender is impossible to feather correctly and after a period using the breaker leaves your thumb hanging off! The second is the forks that have too many pins/fiddly clips securing them and the poor geometry that Cat forks have always had. Apart from that it really is a great machine, this one is top spec with hydraulic quick hitch and extra counterweights etc. It really flies on the road and the economy is incredible if you have been used to a turbo JCB. I can appreciate why many are making the swap. Out of interest do you run any extra counterweights on your 428? The reason I ask is if not see if you can get hold of some and bolt them on to transform the machines balance. ( they just bolt on under the front weight and can be stacked together to provide some serious extra weight and front axle protection.) I was brought up on JCB and always complained about the balance of a CAT, but found a brochure with counterweights shown on a machine (438 with 3 counterweights fitted) and the boss had them fitted to the next one he bought. Now you would never be without them.
Hi Eddie, we have either one or two weights on ours but it could do with another one really. Looking to change it this year for a 432E anyway, possibly with a tool carrier as we do a hell of a lot of block paver repairs and shift up to 20 packs of blocks a day with it, so I fancy a look at the fork arrangement on a tool carrier. That extra dig switch is handy cause the floor is clean but does leave you with a sore thumb at the end of the day. Have only had a few hours on it mainly on the road. It travells loads better than the D series and it pushes like all CATs do, its the tractor heritage that makes em push!!!
Johnny, the same guy has a tool carrier 'D' series with all the gear to go with it and it is a really good set up. The only slight problem is the forks are absolute monsters meant for a loading shovel really and wouldn't fit into a pack of bricks. Obviously CAT would spec you something more suitable and it really works well, unlike others who place an adapter plate between and lose all the geometry. Incidently he has a hydraulic brick grab with a simple fork pocket bracket on a manual swivel, once the bucket is off and forks fitted simply pick up the grab plug into the third service and you can handle bricks/kerbs/pallets with ease. If you go into the backhoe section here and look for 'Crusher Bucket' you will see this machine fitted with a Simex crusher bucket. I was trying one out last year and it was easiest to have a bracket made quickly and run it on the tool carrier, as they wanted me to find a JCB and take the bucket off and run hoses from the rear breaker pipework. The tool carrier handled it brilliantly and just 1800rpm is all that is needed. If you have a carrier machine the Simex bucket is a must, brilliantly simple and gives an excellent product with a reasonable output. Definately worth a try.
That does look a tidy piece of kit, did you end up getting one and how much did it set you back?
No I didn't purchase one, I was trying one out after seeing it at SED and was very impressed with it. I have a good friend with a transfer station and was looking at buying a Guidetti 520 crusher as he would guarantee some work each week to build upon.. I have hired these whilst working in the Oxford area and they are simply brilliant. They are compact, very powerful and well built whilst producing an excellent product. The only trouble is they have discontinued this model and now only produce a much smaller and much larger version. Hence looking at the Simex, It was working out around £17,000 and is very reasonable against other crusher products. It really is built like a tank, and is easy to use as it will take much larger pieces than small jaw crushers. The salesman asked us to do a demo day for him after our first efforts, so I organised a 20tonne load of scrap bricks from a local brickworks to simulate ideal conditions. It would process a full bucket in 1 minute no problem and the product was excellent.(At 20 tonne hr you soon have a fair pile of stuff) When he left us on our own with it we chucked everything in it from bucket teeth and rebar to tyres and pieces of sleepers and nothing bothers it at all! (just reverse it and tip it out, apart from wood which it shreds nicely) It just doesn't fit with what I do as I would have to purchase a carrier machine, but if you have suitable carrier machine and have work where you produce any hardcore/tarmac etc and can re-use crushed then it,s a complete no brainer in my opinion. Also if you can stockpile a little somewhere in your yard it would be a good fill in job for rainy days.
Ask your local caterpillar dealer, they have a handbbook that says 3 category of fuel consuption on every machines. Good luck