2002 CAT 313c CR Problem: Turn key on. I start by jumping at the solenoid. Purrrs like a cat. Had to turn off engine (at the key) as hydraulics don't respond. Repeat this several times until hydraulics work. When they work, they work perfectly. It's as if hydraulics aren't getting signal to turn on. NOW, hydraulics aren't responding at all. DEAD. No swing, no lift, no tracks, no nothing. Engine runs great. hydraulic fluid at middle mark.
You could've posted in the Excavators forum but hey ho. Serial Number..? (Year is no use) From your description it sounds as though the hydraulic lockout is not deactivating. Why do you jump at the starter solenoid to start the machine.? This could indicate a key switch problem which may potentially be related to the hydraulic lockout issue. I'd concentrate on getting it to start on the key first, you may find it fixes both problems. If not the lockout problem can be sorted afterwards.
Wow! quick response. Thank you. I'm new to this forum stuff. Serial # CAT0313CTHGF00200 Sounds like a good place to start. Thanks again.
How good are you with electrical stuff and do you have a multimeter..? I can send you an electrical schematic if that will help.
I have a multi meter. I'm fair with electrical things. A schematic would be great! One post said problem might be behind the seat at the computer but it would be much easier to replace switch.
I should've checked before offering. You have a grey-market machine built for the Japan-only market that is somewhat scarce on technical information in English, including schematics. The only things I have found even close are one for a 313B and one for a 314C. Date-wise the 313B machine was built around the same time as your 313C. 313B production stopped in 2002. I will send you both, maybe when looking at wire numbers, colours, etc, you may be able to figure out which one of the two is more use to you. Hopefully one of the excavator experts will see this and chime in with other suggestions.
Does anything happen when key is turned ON? Does display monitor work? Fuel gauge?
Sounds like neutral start lockout switch is causing a problem. The safety lever at the door has a switch on it. Handle has to be down to start and up to operate. Can you hear the switch click when you move the safety handle.
Yes, display gauges work. Sounds like a pump primes something and stops after a few seconds. I do not hear any clicking when I turn it on or when handle is engaged. This excavator has an MSS security system. Attached are pictures of key fob.
See Thread
Hi all! I'm interested to know how it all ended? Because my neighbor (a funny old man) told me the other day about a similar problem with his CAT 313CCR. Only him everything is ok with the launch. I looked myself. All 2 signals (test) sound, all panel devices work; However, this excavator then does not respond to the safety handle - a stone. Although, no! If the safety is on (thumb forward), then the engine will not start (the starter is silent). The safety is turned off (thumbs down) - the starter is ok and the engine starts, and the grandfather then turns on the safety - but the hydraulics are silent... P.S. It will not go to service, the warranty has long expired and if it is repaired by a dealer, it will be very expensive. ... And the problem is kind of strange!
P.S. Grandpa says that this excavator can work like a crane (!) I don’t know how in works, but it has a crane panel in the cabin. There are no errors on the display.
@ Bigmist Most likely, the pilot lockout solenoid has failed. On that type of failure, a code will not show on the main screen. It will, however, be in the code(s) listed when in the service mode.
Thank You. We also assumed that this was a problem with some kind of control valve. Where to look for it? There are details, grandpa had a business, a rice field (it’s true) and this CAT often took water (including earth) almost throughout under the cabin. We opened the left sidebars yesterday. Rice doesn't grow there , but there is a lot of soil inside under the cabin and it is damp, and there are a lot of wires in this dampness. There is no way to reach the cable connectors. And there’s no way to turn the turret (remove the bottom hatch) - the hydraulics don’t work.
Do you know where to look this lockout solenoid? Under the cabin floor we found an assembly of 4 pcs. control valves and one of them was warm (to the touch). It is should be this? Or now is this the same “sick” valve?
Post #3 here HeavyEquipmentForums The pilot lockout solenoid is always on the end with the accumulator, looks like a softball. I don't see a 313c in my available list to indicate where on the machine.
@Bigmist - post a machine Serial Number. It helps to look up detailed information.
The accumulator looks like a softball, not the solenoid itself.
*CAT0313CPHGF01770*
We have already looked into this compartment (32). There's only the main pump itself.
You are going to need a Parts Manual because there is no information in the online system for that machine. It was only ever built for the Japanese domestic market and all information is in that language. Not that it will be a problem to you bearing in mind your location........ Also there is no "World market" equivalent for that model, so that takes away another potential option. There is an error in the above. The Japanese Parts Manual is XJBP7943, an English version is XEBP7943. If you visiit the Caterpillar Publications website HERE you can search for either XJBP7943 if you want a Parts Manual or XJBU2639 if you want an Operation & Maintenance Manual. These manuals can be downloaded but are unfortunately not free.
Is it possible that you are talking about this node? I've only found it in my neighbor's catalog so far. But there are only two valves (judging by the picture). Can there be such only 2 pcs (not three or four)?
Thank You! But this is the version of the catalog that my neighbor already has.
Most likely, it is one of those two solenoids in the circle. Mark which plug goes to which one...then unplug one and test for voltage with key on and safety OFF, then safety ON. Repeat for other solenoid. On Cat, they both, most likely, have a black ground wire, so you'll test the other one in the connector. Which ever gains and loses power when the safety is cycled is the pilot lockout solenoid. The other scenario here is a failed pump drive coupling between the engine and hydraulic pump assembly.
You need to be careful that you use the correct illustration. The one you posted above is titled “HGF1-766” (00001-00766 in other words) You are working on HGF01770. There may be a difference between machines above and below 766, but by using the correct illustration will eliminate the possibility.
It's clear. Let's check the solenoids, and more far, then if necessary. ... When my neighbor came to me with this problem, the first thing he did was complain and suggest this option, but I doubted it - it’s a CAT (besides, apart from the old mud on the bottom, it’s a very decent looking one) !
This wish should be sent to CAT managers Because in the catalog XEBP7943 there is no other picture for this unit (hydraulic accumulator / safety solenoids).
I dug a bit deeper and the only difference in the 194-8912 Pilot Lines Gp below/above HGF00766 is the replacement of a 170-9335 Pressure Switch with a 309-5768.
We found this solenoid. Exactly where the catalog XEBP7943 showed it. We didn’t do the test today - the electric man has a day off, and we are an iron people (our works is twist the nuts The test was rescheduled for Monday. To be continued....
Today call and there was an electric man! The excavator's electrical system (wiring and safety solenoid) is in perfect order. So, time is for a second option :-( A question that requires clarification is, that in order to get to the connecting unit (engine/main pump), do I need to remove the counterweight? The main pump compartment is very cramped... If realy remove the counterweight, what is the weight of this "piece of hardware"?
Before doing a lot of work, is there a small hydraulic pump for the pilot oil supply installed in the back side of the main pump.? It is hard to see from your photo. If there is then maybe you can remove that and look into the hole where it fits while cranking the engine to check if the shaft that drives the pilot pump is rotating. You may require a mirror to do this. If you supply the part number of the counterweight I can tell you how much it weighs.
You could try connecting a pressure gauge to one of the test couplings on the back of the pump and see if there is any main pump pressure. Start with a high pressure gauge and then work your way down to a low pressure gauge. If the coupling is broken there will be zero pressure at the port. If the pump is turning there will always be a couple hundred psi even if it’s just sitting idling. You could also take the outlet line off that small pump on the back of the main pump , crank it over to see if any oil is moving.
Thank You, Of course, before disassembling the main pump, we will first connect to the system and check the hydraulic pressure. Counterweight number 202-1506 P.S. ... It's foggy and drizzling today. Still, yesterday's call and arrival of the electrician was very timely ...
202-1506 is the complete Counterweight Group. The counterweight itself is 211-6237. Approximate weight is 3500kg.
Thank You!
do you by chance happen to have a similar looking valve under the cab floor that looks like the one in the pic attached. This is the safety lock for a 313B model but my be different to what you have, just thought it might be of some help.
Hello to all supporters! Today we tested the pressure in the hydraulic system (just in case, we expected 0 bar - as a result of damage to the coupling). However (see photo, the engine is running): 1-2-3 connection points showed 40 bar each; 4th point (under the floor of the operator’s seat in the cab) - 0 (where to it go?!); We discovered a faulty (empty without gas) hydraulic accumulator (5th point, in the safety valve system near the distributor), but could this be a problem? I have previously come across equipment with a non-working hydraulic accumulator (Hitachi, Komatsu and others) and this was not a problem. Cranes are a different matter (Kato or Tadano), where some control of parts operations often fails. But not on an excavator. What can you tell me? Where did the pressure go in the hydraulic system?
Yes, there is something similar. Under the cabin floor. But I don't understand its purpose (?)
Regarding the function of the accumulator. It is only to provide pilot system pressure to operate the main control valve and permit the implements to be lowered to the ground in the event of an engine failure. Even if it is discharged the system should function normally providing there are no other faults. Have you cut on and inspected any of the hydraulic filters yet to check for debris.?
Do you think this is necessary? The 3rd point (this is the outlet from the filter) showed the same pressure as in the control pump.
You have no hydraulics. One of the possibilities is a pump failure. To eliminate that possibility a cut of the return filter is probably the simplest and fastest option.
Pump failure? Where'd the 40 bar come from then?
Electric man? One of them solenoids is pilot lockout. Did the voltage change when the lever was up vs down? Is the electrical resistance the same on both solenoids? Does the solenoid(s) magnetize when voltage is applied?
Yes Yes (Almost 50 ohms on each)
Not verified ... We are make a test today
item 2 in the pic is the safety pilot lock solenoid. Try checking this solenoid for power.
You were right, the problem was only in this solenoid. Moreover, the solenoid coil itself is working properly (as the electric man said earlier). The core of this coil is stuck in its guide washers. Rust (!) glued the core to the washers and greatly weakened the direction of induction inside the core (and there is an independent movable striker inside)! In general, we were able to disassemble the solenoid ourselves, wash everything inside, clean off the rust and reassemble it as it was. And all Works! ... saved my neighbor JPY 46.000 about (the cost of the solenoid from the dealer) and time delivery. P.S. Electrician the last time stopped, because I misdirected him it in the other direction - the solenoid coil showed the correct resistance and I couldn’t imagine that there was rust inside (Where from? It’s CAT!
Thank You ALL for Your participation and assistance! Right pressure in any hydraulic systems and have a good weekend!!
I'm not real competant with computers, so not sure if I ever posted the outcome of this problem. It turm=ned out to be the security system KEY FOB. I took the FOB and put it in the control panel under the key switch and wrapped the wire (that receives key fob signal) around the fob and everything works perfectly. Thank you to all who responded to this post.
Thanks for the follow-up. Your thread got hijacked into a solenoid problem in a rice-planting excavator in Japan (I did NOT make that up...sounds made up, though). I had to go back and check for your original key fob issue. Glad you got it sorted out.