Good Day All! Raw newbie here, so please be gentle. The fine folks at Iron Planet were kind enough to allow me to be high bidder on a D4G a while back. About 1100 hours from a Cat dealer on a clean, straight unit. I've read the entire manual that came with the machine and have been teaching myself some operator techniques here on the farm, with a lot of good info gleaned here. Now- what exactly is any maintenance on track components? There are zerk fittings on the blade. There are track adjustments mentioned in the manual (none needed at this time). And the manual mentions checking for hot joints. But is/are there no lubrication of tracks at all? And what about the "turning" of pins I've heard about? Someome drop in here and please type a while on what I've gotten myself into.:notworthy And then maybe we can get into operational techniques I've figured out are more challenging than they look. :beatsme
Whenever you have a joint that is dry or going dry on a set of lubricated chains it will become hot from the extra friction. I recommend turning your pins and bushings whenever they are around 85% wore. You are looking at around 900 dollars for a turn. My company recommends replacing your sprocket segments whenever you turn your pin and bushings or install new chains so you will not wear the p&b's out prematurely. Around the Houston area, after 1200 to 1500 hours you usually are due for a turn.
By the way, I am also a machine inspector for Iron Planet.
QT- What makes a joint "go dry"? BTW- No dig there on Iron Planet. Been surfing them for a while. Neat set up. Sure makes a Ritchie auction preview look weak.
Usually the reason a joint would go dry is due to seal failure. The other would of course be your tracks being worn out. On an LGP machine you see seal failure more often than on a standard track due to the wider pad and more pressure on the pins and bushings.
It sounds like you need a primer on tracks. Check out the following site on the track training section for some basic info. http://www.constructioncentric.com/forum/YaBB.pl Come back here and ask your questions to fill in the blanks. Also run a search on other threads here as there is a wealth information from many professionals. Good Luck!
John C.- Thanks. Yes a primer is needed. That link goes to some good stuff. I have lurked here on HEF for a while and have learned a lot. It does seem that some things are so basic to so many here, that it was assumed we all knew them. Once again, thanks!
$900 for a turn is what it costs when there steamed cleaned and rolled up in front of the track press i would bet.
$900 w/ pads on is what we have been charging due to the economy. We usually charge 960 for a D6m and down. As long as they don't have asphalt or something like that, that price is good. If tracks come to our shop clean they don't stay that way because they get muddy again just being moved around our yard.
Quicktrax Just so people understand the costs being spoken of here in turning the pins and bushings. Your price for turning is on which type of tracks, sealed or SALT. I assume that price does not include removing and reinstalling the tracks or replacing seals and cracked pins that might be found. Are you replacing track pad bolts since half of them are removed for the process? New sprocket segments and hard ware I'm sure are not included. If we are talking SALT tracks, is that price for a wet turn? I would also assume that doesn't include any repair work that might be associated with a mid life like swapping roller positions are repairing or replacing guides. I'm sure it also doesn't include any issues that result from rock guards. Typically $1,000 is a start on turning pins and bushings. It's not uncommon to see mid life projects on D3 through D5 sized machines run up around $4,500 depending on who does the job and how thorough it is done. The cost of running these smaller dozers is high. You either need to do your home work or bring in experts to assess the condition of what you have and then make a plan for maximizing your costs.
John C, The price I referred to is the labor for a wet or dry turn. This includes removing all of the pads, pressing both chains apart, inspecting all of the parts, pressing back together, bolting all of the pads back onto the chains. Seals and any other parts needed are not included in this price. We do use a lubrication machine that takes a vacuum on each joint before we shoot oil into it. D3 size machines up to the D6M usually take about the same amount of time. I have worked at a shop that the starting rate for a turn was over 1000 dollars but they had absolutely no competition due to the remote location. We on the other hand have plenty of track shops around to keep the prices low.
And again I say the cost of the parts will put the $900 price over the $1,000 mark. You also don't state whether or not you put an environmental and hardware charge on top of that price. If you are going to quote a price on a forum then you should include the entire scope of the project and all the associated charges that go with it. There are new people here as demonstrated by RTSmith who might not know of all the costs associated with owning and operating machinery. We would not want to mislead anyone and I think the intension here is that the information provided should be generic in nature. Should you wish to offer your services to someone specific, I would suggest using the email feature of this forum. Good Luck!
John C, Many of my customers, and they are usually repeat customers walk out the door with a price of around 900. We do not have an environmental charge or a hardware charge. We typically reuse the old hardware. Bring tracks into a shop, the customer and myself have to assume that the tracks have no dry joints and the hardware is good. I get the feeling you have been paying too much for your undercarriage work. I feel like you need to do some price shopping in your area. When you mentioned offering my services on this forum. It is against the forum policy to solicit. I would suggest that you read the forum rules. Have a good day!
I was making the point the price did not include labor to r&r tracks. or was just the basic get you in the door price.
This price would be bringing in the tracks only (with pads on). Like I said earlier, we have quite a few tracks shops around this area and this is the going labor price.
i quote parts and labor for a living. We make it a point to include everthing up front as mutch as possible. then at least warn them of other possible charges. not knocking what you said. just my mind at work.
In and Out the Door How long does it take you to get a set of Tracks Out the Door? Hauling a set of tracks down to you and going Flounder Gigging while you turn them sounds like a pretty good trip.
If a press is free it is usually a two day turn around once we get tracks on the press. A bigger machine would probably be a three day turn around. This would be for a P&B turn. If you needed new pins and bushings or new chains it would depend on the availability on your parts.
I know that CAT did have System One track for the D4G, which is supposed to be even less maintenance than the regular sealed and lubricated track (SALT). I think with system one track the bushing can rotate eliminating wear from the sprocket, and no bushing turns, they're supposed to last way longer. I have seen where the seals have gone bad, and if you've got it and it doesn't have the optional master link you have to get tooling to press the links apart.
System One sucks to take apart, especially without a press. I love the old master link.
I second what you say Chris!!! :drinkup
Yes they do suck, I've used two different types of tooling for it though. There is one setup that has two hyd. rams in one assembly that you can hang on the link with little pegs while you run the rods through it and set up everything else, much better than the one with every part separate. They don't even compare to the ease of the old gator links.
On a small machine like this, did I see a note that dollars were as well spent that rather to turn P&B, one would simply replace the chains and sprockets as a unit when they were worn out?
I wouldnt waste time turning those small machines just run them till there junk and buy new rails swap the pads if there still ok. for instance if a new rail is $2,000 cost to turn pins and bushings are $400.00 youll get mayby 30% more wear but that $400.00 dosnt include cost to remove rails clean and haul them to get turned also figure in down time. those prices are just a guess
Turning pins and bushings depends on many things and is purely a business decision based on the facts of the undercarriage. Most people don't pay attention and run too long making a turn impossible. The bushings get too thin and will crack when pressed. The type of material the machine usually works in makes a big difference also. Abrasive materials may wear sprockets and bushings out so fast the rails are hardly worn. Impact operation may cause the rails to crack and the pin bosses to lose their press fit. Low ground pressure machines put huge amounts of stress on the pins and the track really loosen up quick. The manufacture also can make a big difference. Some run longer than others. It's just a fact. You get what you pay for. To say it's more cost effective to throw away a set of chains when the rails are only partially worn without all the facts on the wear and the costs of a turn is making an uniformed decision. As I heard recently on TV, "an uniformed decision will usually lose money".
Perhaps you should try the System One Tracks with split master links??