OK, I know everyone has their favorite brand. But WHY do you like the CAT better then the CASE or vise-versa? What is the pros and cons of each machine? Which one works better in which conditions then the other? FYI please DO NOT post; "CAT" or "CASE". I want to know which one yo ulike and WHY.
I like the CASE Cummins/Case diesel engine a little better. I think it might be a bit more HP, but that might have changed with the newer models. Although it's tough to find much fault with a Perkins. I liked the fact that my CASE was made in USA, the CAT is made generally in England. I like the locking diff button on the CASE loader joystick better than a foot actuated pedal on the CAT. I like CASE's lower overall cab height & lower overall backhoe boom height. The machine overall is a bit smaller. It looks to be about 7/8's the size of a comparable CAT, which is better for my needs. I think CASE might give you one or two more gauges in the gauge cluster to monitor your machine. Those were the reasons I focused on Case over CAT, because they suited my situation & needs better. However, CAT has advantages over CASE, like bigger front tires, just to name one of many, I'm sure. I can think of lots of reasons to buy CAT over CASE if I were in a different situation. I think a lot of the decision comes down to what brand's dealer is in your area and how well they'll service your needs.
I like Case. They feel more stable to me on unlevel ground. They also have the same power as the cat but in a smaller package. I find I can load a truck faster with the case cause i can do it in 2nd gear. And what is with that curved boom on a cat? i could never get use to that.
Unless we're doing jobs in tight conditions, I really love the size of our Cat. HP is similar to the 580s we used to rent, but it seems to put it to the ground better. Maybe a combination of weight, transmission, and torque range of the engine. I'm constantly amazing at the things I can push around. The first day we had it, I used it to pull our GMC 6500 out of the mud. It had a full load of rocks and was buried so much that you didn't need to use a step to get in. I pulled it out while the truck in neutral like it was nothing. The backhoe also has very high digging forces (I believe similar Cat and Deere machines are withing a few hundred pounds of each other). With a full front bucket of dirt, I can pull stumps with the e-stick fully out. It has pushed down some immense trees too. There's pictures on here somewhere of it pushing down a 3 foot pine. It's almost boring digging with only a 2 foot bucket, because it pulls it through the ground so effortlessly. The loader end is also good to use as a result of the way it gets power to the ground. The speed of the hydraulics is very nice when loading trucks. The hydraulics are faster than Case (not my opinion, look up the specs). I almost never have to touch the brakes to let the loader clear the sides. The cab is huge! When we looked at it before buying, my first impression was how big the cab was. Everything is in just the right place too. Some of the switches are a little cheap feeling, but only one has broken. There's also and electrical condition messed up somewhere, because the fan likes to cut out sometimes. The rear window is easy to slide out of the way and stays latched no matter how hard the machine shakes. The side windows are also easy to latch and release. I'd still use a Case any day, but our Cat was cheaper than an older smaller Case with more hours in this area. 01 420D 3,000hrs $42,500 vs 99 580SL 5,000hrs $50,000. I don't really care for the Case dealer too much anyway, they kind of got a little too big too fast to care about the little guy. There are 2 Cat dealers within 40 minutes and at least 5 withing 2.5 hours. It was really a no brainer for which machine to buy.
I am a Case 580 fan. I have had 4 and presently have a 580M. The machine is small enough to fit in tight spaces and plows snow great , good visibility, push button locking rears. Also a good dealer to deal with. doug
C an't Afford Something Else. A S E C an't Attempt Serious Excavation. A S E :falldownlaugh I have to admit, I stole these from someone else here, but it's still all good...:laugh
"Can't afford something else" doesn't make much sense since they're actually only second to CAT in price for a new machine. "Can't attempt serious excavating" would apply to reall all backhoes. None were designed to excavate huge holes like an excavator. I know, it's all good. CAT420, What's the HP rating of your Perkins/cat diesel?
88 Gross, 85 Net. Peak torque of 468ft-lbs@1400rpm. Torque rise of 27%@1400rpm. It's the 3.98L 3054T
C- Constantly A- Assembling S- XXXXXX E- Equipment Ive run them all from a 580K to L to M, and a 416 B, C and 420 D. Case - Good visibility, comfortable cab, better balance front to rear than the Cat. Thats about it. Sure is smaller too, which never worked out for me. Cat - Nice cab, good visibility, pilot controls were nicer than Case, Little things wouldnt go wrong as much as the case, more back hoe power, faster hydraulics, bigger front tires (believe me, this is a HUGE difference) smooth shirfing trans, cold A/C, rear window design is superior, much better resale value. To 420D- I can't believe anyone would sell a Case hoe that is 5+ years old and that has that many hours for 50k. Another 25K and you could buy a new one. I suggest you go kick them in the arse for me
Well, I am not really in the backhoe market that much now, but in the late 90's, I needed a newer backhoe to replace our 500 SuperK because of all of the new utility work we had. We demoed a 426C Cat and a 580 Super L Case, each with about 1500 hrs or so on the meter, and comperable price. Wed worked the 2 machines side by side for a week, and the Case was the clear winner by a large margin. Here are some of the things I found: The Cat did not have enough pull with the extendahoe to use it in the digging cycle, while ths Case would pull through harder material with the extendahoe, allowing a longer dig with each set up. The Cat struggled to pull itself up onto a large muddy pile with its hoe, and did not have enough power for the tires to assist., I parked it, got the Case, and it pulled right up onto the pile. The spec book says the Cat had more lifting power, but when setting 36" RCP, The Cat could not pick it up at the required distance to set it in the ditch, but the Case would, although barely. We brought the Cat and Case sales rep out one day and ran a side by side dith digging test, with me on the Case and my top hand on the Cat for a half hour, then we swithed machines for another half hour. We were digging in Nevada hardpan, 24" wide, and 3' deep. At the end of the hour, the Case had dug about 25% more ditch. We bought the Case, and a few years later, needed another hoe, and we got a really good deal on a 426C, so we bought it in spite of our good experience with the Case, which had not broken down, save a hose or 2. The Cat went into the shop at 2500 hrs with a blown rear diff, and worn out brakes. At 2800 hrs, the e-stick broke in half, I am told by the dealer this is common???? and Cat has an updated replacement we can buy (no warranty on our used machine) 200 hrs later, the loader frame broke in half at the cross tube. also needed 2 new swing cylinders. at 3500 hrs, the brakes were failing again, loader arms were cracked again, and we were generally dissatisfied with it. I just sold the Case with over 7000 hrs on it, and it has had a starter and alternater replaced, a few hoses, and a front planetary fail due to lack of lubrication (Oiler didn't put oil in it) This machine was used even harder than the Cat, because we new not to use the Cat very hard, as it was always breaking down. I will probably be in the market for a backhoe again, and it will be Case all the way.
Oh they wanted well over $100k for new ones ($120k for some ). Why anyone buys from them is beyond me:beatsme edit- I guess that's why I have never understood the "Cat is too expensive" argument. In my area Cat is priced like everything else, sometimes lower.
I like Cat for their power and strength, but I do a lot of street work so it gets tight and a nice small machine like a case 580 is ideal. When I started my company I had a dynahoe 190 and a mack b61 sixwheeler. After the dynahoe i bought a case 580C then a 580 D then 2 580 Es. I made a lot of money with those machines. The only Case series I didn't like was the k's mine had a ton of electrical problems and the cab rotted out even with my picky cleaning. I had 3 L's at one point then the case dealer went out and it went a few years with no dealer so I started buying Cat's. To think of all the abuse I put those machines to and they kept rolling amazes me. My Cat's couldnt take the beating I gave those 580s. All in all I think Case makes the best machine for longevity, but the Cats have a little bit more strength for lifting manholes and such. I know this is a little off subject, but I have a Cat M322C that I have had a number of problems with simply stuff but aggravating when you have to pay someone to sit their while the mechanic is on his way up.
If you want "bigger front tires", all you have to do is buy a 580 Super-M "plus" or a 590, both models have the same size front tires as a CAT and it's still a cheaper machine, plus you get a limited slip front differential :cool2 The 580 SM + and the 590 have a bigger spread on the stabilizers, too. They are more competitive with CAT's oversized machines. The CASE Super M I just bought is beautiful for tight spaces and going under low overpasses, tree branches, etc.. A/C??? My A/C will freeze you out of the cab on a 95* day with no problem. I find myself turning it off because it gets so cold. Like I said, if I was doing something different, I might like the CAT better. Personally, I'm glad they differ a bit from each other. That way each "trade" can take advantage of different machine's strengths. To sit here and just call one or the other "junk" is ridiculous. Neither are junk. They're both excellent machines.
both are fine machines dad ran case machines for the first 30 years of buisness. and we have no complaints at all the are great machines. well last winter we decided it was time to trade. well the old case dealer that we had delt with for years died and his dealership was shut down, great old guy to work with. so we go to the new guys place. the had a 580sm plus with 3-4oo hours on it, no new machines there. they wanted 92,000 for it. and wanted to give us 35,000 for ours. went to the cat dealer picked out a new 420e loaded with a few more options than the case, they wanted 84-87,000 for it and gave us 42 for ours. so we had to go cat. when you get a 5 diget price differance it is had to walk away. i think the case we had has more break out force, but i think the cat is alot less top heavy. i like the cat but i still think that case maybe a better machine. but really the differance is so small i don't know if i would give a grand more for one of the other
I haven't run a Cat but I would take a Case to any other brand backhoe especaily JCB. I find the Case more stable they have good vision,better constructed its not cheap like the JCB I was running. Dealer support is far better with Case. Case has been building tractors far longer than most other brand backhoes. There are many old 1970 Case backhoes and old tractors with backhoe attachments still running.
two things i dislike about the case 1 the wide front tires and the boom when you have to put it in transport mode it seem like it gonna hit you in the nose. i guess after 10 yrs on the 420 i dont want to run anything else
I'm a case guy probably always will be. I have driven cat and deere they are nice but being used to my 580 feel it is best overal. Price wise i think cat is banking on the name not they don't have a good machine .case/deere i think have been making the tlb longer. there is things i like in each. Nothing wrong is likeing a machine that you might have been brought up on .
I actually like DEERE & CASE the best with CAT a very close 2nd. All 3 machines would work fine for me. All 3 are excellent. I'm just going by preference. You won't get any "Ford vs. Chevy" kid-stuff, brand bashing out of me on these backhoes.
Thats not what I was looking for when I started this thread. I have never owned a backhoe and was just wondering what you guys thought of those two brands. I've only ran a CAT 420D IT a couple of times.
So, obviously you two are on the same page with regard to that sort of debate. I think Duke was just trying to reinforce that any such brand bashing would be counterproductive; not to suggest that that was the reason for your post. (Thankfully, we haven't seen much of that yet anyway.)
Exactly. I think most of us here are mature enough to not take this into the mud (no pun intended). Most of us know they're both excellent machines. It's more a matter of preference, dealer and what type of work you do.
As long as your dealer supplys good service and has a good parts network any machine regardless of color or brand name matters. I find Cat parts expensive and others don't in their markets,some say CASE equipment is crap but why are their backhoes in the top 3 in sales? Interesting why Deere was never put in this discussion. I love the new JCB series with the pilot controls built into my seat and find the machines easy to work on and service but so many people say JCB are crap with never have running one. Everyone will have their own opinion and everyone will have different experiences with each brand.The only way to find a solution is ask questions and demo as many machines as possible and come up with your own opinions.
As much of a Cat guy as I am, I really am impressed with the Case pilot controls (haven't run any other type). I thought they were smoother and more predictable than the E-series I've run. That being said, each operator will have his or her own opinion on "controls" -- so it just goes back to opinion on this one for me. And I'm also proud that I got the boom-lock on the first real try... lifted the boom slowly to see what my trainer was talking about, lowered it, then did it on the first actual attempt. Okay that's enough celebration for me.
well the only case i've run was a older 580(i think K) it had a ford four stick pattern in it, so i'll compare it to the cat 436c with four sticks ive run the case i didnt like the sticks on the hoe they seemed to close together and were little knobs, then the loader control seemed goofy to run felt like it was i front of me on the dash. and then not really running it much i hated trying to get the boom to lock and looking like a moron not getting it the first time:Banghead the cat was newer, i like the sticks nice big square knobs on them,seemed like it was smoother. and the loader control i could reach with my arm still on the arm rest i've always liked cat so i'd get a cat before a case but cat is all i really know . i've never really done much in a deere also,so my experince is pretty one sided:beatsme
That does take practice. The backhoe I ran had it's lock broken a couple times because the other person using it (he would sneak on before I could yell at him to get off) didn't know how to lock it and he would just slam the hoe against the lock. Blake WA
I think that Case and Cat both make great backhoe's. One thing that I really like (and use a lot) about my 420Dit is the toolchanger. It is a strong, fast, and convenient way to change front attachments. For my use, having a toolchange on the backhoe is more important than the brand.
I like mine on my Case, too. I have the FFC tool changer. I got the manual type, so it's kind of like a Bobcat quick attach only it's just one lever and off she goes. I't not the hydraulic release like the CAT, but I thought that would be one more thing that might malfunction, too.
My dad had a 88" 416 and a 94' 416B both well maintained owner/operated machines. Both were nothing but problem after problem and I hear the same from friends with newer models. We have a 2000 Super L now and I wouldnt trade it for any machine. Case in my eyes is better machine because: 1 better feel in the backhoe 2 more lifting power despite what the manuals will tell you 3smoother over the road 4 faster over the road 5better built cab 6 extendahoe is more durable and well designed 7 more maneuverable 8 higher dump height, easier to load a 10 wheeler 9 Cummins is a more reliable engine than Perkins to me. 10 Stronger backhoe boom 11 50 years of experiance The one thing that a Cat does have over a Case is that it weighs more and will out push a Case any day.
i don't think I'll get the life out of my Cat as I will in my Case.
The Cats had engine problems, torque-convertor, transmition, transfer case, and boom problems.
I don't know how you figure that. my CASE weighs 17,800lbs and is ~94HP. I don't think a CAT 420 weighs much more or has much more power. What I see a lot of is when a CASE is parked next to a CAT, the CAT is physically bigger & taller. Most people think that anything that's bigger MUST be better & more powerful than something that's smaller. IMO, CASE's best asset is that it's a smaller more manueverable package with little or no sacrafice in power or capability. The dipperstick is shorter and clears more objects and when it's in the transport position, it makes the machine a lot shorter. My GMC3500 is about 4/5ths the size of my Ford F-350 Superduty. My GMC will drag my Superduty around the parking lot all day long, but it's smaller. Funny, huh?
Our 420 is 20,000lbs with all the different options it has. The engine is rated right about 88hp, but however it is tuned, it is noticeably stronger than a 580SL. I don't know if the gearing is different or perhaps where the engine makes torque. I remember using 580s and when you met too much resistance, it would just stop and you really had to work to spin the tires. Even though rated for less power, our 420 requires an easier touch as it will dig with the tires in a hurry. To be fair, I haven't put it against the new Case M series, but then again I haven't used Cat's E series either so it probably doesn't make a huge difference in the end. It is also feels more stable on slopes. Whether it actually traverses steeper stuff I don't know, but it feels better from the seat while working. In Case's favor, they do seem to be idiot proof. There are tons of rental 580s that get beat on every day and just keep taking it. Now our 420 has almost 4,000 hours and still runs and dig great, so in the end, find a dealer you like and find a good price on whatever brand they carry.
I dont like cat hoes at all. Ive run every series and none have impressed me with the exception that all seem to be good at pushing. If I had to run a Cat and Case back to back pushing material, Id push more with a Case because Im more fluent with a case. We have a Super L2 a friend of ours has a Super M2. I like both machines but the motor in the Super L I think is much more responsive and will start much better in the cold. Now the M's around here come with grid heaters.M has a comfortable cab and the loader hydralics are smoother but I still think the L series is #1.
I always thought the L was a better machine than the M
Every "L" I've ever seen or tried to buy has cancer all through the doors after about 5 years. At about $1,500 per door, I like the more rust resistant M doors. The M cab is bigger inside and has better visibility, too. :drinkup Can get pilot controls in an "L", either.
european case all i can say is that if you were unlucky enough to have our (european) version of a case you would be beating a path to you cat dealer
If I had to go with a Case, it would definitely be a pre-fiat buyout Case And who needs pilots?? The 3 stick is a lost art.
in my opinion a case backhoe will kick a cats but anyday
I dont like pilots either. you dont have the same feel and response. As far as the "cancer" Ive seen all brands that have it, some that dont. My L doesnt have any rot on the doors, 7 years of plowing. I am glad we dont have a European version Case. I dont think the 580 will ever dissappear in the States.
I had a 580K rot to a million pieces on me and I had 4 580Ls that didn't have an ounce of rot. The K series was plagued with many problems, the L was unbeatable. The 4 stick pattern I like better than the wobble sticks or pilot controls.
Our L didnt have any spots on the doors and it was a 98. As far as the controls go, the L had the 4 sticks and the M has the pilots. I wanted to get the 4 stick again but dad wanted the pilots. After 30 yrs of runing 4 sticks i dont know why he wanted to but he did, and the other day he told me that we should of got the 4 sticks. O well too late now i guess.
If you want to see something funny, put me on a older Case 3 stick with the foot swing thingy. Warning: Stay far back away from the machine. Convulsions and seizures may occur unexpectedly at any time.
Thanks I can't speak 100% for the rest of management at HEF but I'd like to thank the contributors to this thread for keeping it all open, honest and friendly along the way. The members of HEF have carried out a head to head topic/debate that I know for sure wouldn't result in the same outcome on many other forums. Some good information and generally unbiased posts. So aside from LowBoy .......:stirthepot ...who provides the humour .......I'll just leave you with mental image of RollOverPete doing the funky chicken in a 3 stick case...an we can only hope for the video:cool2
This forum is pretty cool. Great to talk about equipment with some good people.
The only Case's I've ever run were the older ones with the foot swing. .never could get the hang of that! Was on a Deere 400 for a while. .took a few minutes to get used to the two sticks but after I did, I kind'a liked 'em. Same with Cat and their two sticks but my preference is for the older Fords and Cats with 4 sticks. For some odd reason they seem easier (for me anyway) to use. Case I think has faster hydraulics on the bucket and I think is a bit easier to maneuver in tight spaces but for overall performance, I'll stick with Cat. Just my two bits. . .
I work for a city in in the dfw of Texas. I use a Deere, case 590 super n, cat 420 d. The Deere like ease of use, good strength how ever, it's used f
I work for a city in tx, we have. Deere, case, and cat. I love the controls of a case and creature comforts, the Deere hoas the same comforts but lacks the same controls. The cat has no comforts or controls however, it it much stronger and the boom doesn't sway. Although I'm either sweating or freezing while in the cat, I know the controls for extending and to swivel which are in the feet, where I make it go I know it will go there and only there. I prefer the cat only for this. The Deere and case swing to much. When I'm digging inches away from copper and cables I need that. If I could count on the case or Deere to do the same I would take the Deere, that's 2nd in strength. The case is the best in controls because it's all in the hands, no foot control needed on the backhoe. We have a case 590 super n, cat 420d and I don't know what the Deere is I don't use it much
our 2003 420d just hit 21,000 hours with no required repairs other than tires,starter and alternator. we tried a 580 before this was purchased and it was just too small. it was a nice machine though. cant really say anything bad about it.
21000 hrs?