I have a 2015 CAT 259D FTL03107. The landscaper was using it behind my house to move some cobble rock. He shut it off to talk to the workers. Got back in it 10 minutes later...it cranked strong but wouldn't start. Never started ever again. Plenty of fuel, filters clean, water separator full, primer pump runs with key on for 30 sec or so (I just changed that primer pump this year), no clue. I called Michigan CAT for field service (the 259 is in a steep backyard and basically inaccessible to remove from the premises without some major heavy equipment and winches etc.). The tech arrived last Tuesday morning. After a full day of diagnosis, I was told it needed a high-pressure fuel pump. The part was $1791. Since Wednesday, the tech arrives at 8 AM and works until 3p in dismantling the engine/chassis to try to get to the pump. He said he might have it done in another 1-2 days. Has anyone replaced these pumps? The CAT has 700 hours on it. I don't understand how it could fail after the machine was shut off. The tech had many interactions with the CAT service operations center and they told him it needed the pump. BTW, he did try swapping the electric solenoid valve first but no success. Also, there are no faults from the CAT computer, nothing awry displaying on the screen inside.
That does sound strange.....and expensive.
And does the high pressure fuel pump need to be timed, etc? I thought it just bolts on, runs off the timing gear and the fuel proceeds to the fuel rail and onwards to the 4 electronic injectors.
Anyone on this with regards to common rail diesel injection systems? Does the high pressure fuel pump need to be timed?
If I have time tomorrow I’ll get on SIS and see what I can find. To me it sounds like a sensor input or wiring harness issue. That’s just SWAG on my part. That computer will tell the tech a lot even without codes. 99% of stuff I fix is done without codes but knowing what inputs to look at when hooked up to ET.
There is a service letter on the high pressure pump for many D machines, but it does NOT include your serial number, or even one close. The service claim allowance for a 259D (again, not your serial number) of ONE hour for replacement of said pump.
I admit I know nothing about this engine or fuel pump, but it was working fine, shut it down, try to restart, no go. I find it hard to believe the high pressure fuel pump crapped out in that matter aside from the shaft driving the pump twisted off clean, how odd would that be? Again, I know nothing about this engine or pump, but the diagnosis makes my Spidey hairs tingle.
My gut says plugged inlet on filter head. I have threads on that here somewhere. Cat has a bulletin about adding an inline strainer, but, they don't address disassembly of the filter head, where the debris will be trapped in the inlet and top of the housing.
This is the service letter, and it's for the low pressure pump.
So, for clarity, the most common failure is the electric pump, electrically, or the pump inlet plugged with debris.
To your question yes the pump needs to be timed. They look tight but a week seems extremely excessive but I’m not sure of what exactly he has tested or troubleshot. I bet he will be closing his eyes and praying as he turns the key after a week of fuel pump work.... I know I would be.
Here are a few threads on CAT fuel problems including the filter head plugging issue that heymccall was referring to: HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums
Thank you for the response! I too remain skeptical. He first replaced the fuel filter, checked the electric primer pump (I had replaced it just 150 hours ago) and installed an additional clear in-line fuel filter all to no solving the starting issue. Any idea how many hours are published to replace the high-pressure fuel pump? He said that he checked the sensors and the plunger valve which should be 2.2 ohms was within spec, he swapped that solenoid plunger from the new pump but still no change. As of today, he had the timing set and removed the old pump. Hopefully he has this damn thing back together tomorrow. I'm still scratching my head on this one...
this may sound simplistic, but if it were me, i’d check all of the fuses first.
He spent the first day checking the harness, all fuses, and sensors, changed filter, and installed a prefilter.
I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling on this one.
Me neither. I made it clear to the dealer that I won’t be paying for any guesses and “throwing parts at it” without any tangible test measures or documented test steps. That pump is $1791. I’m not convinced... Also, why does a common rail setup require the pump to be timed?
Does anyone have the official service procedure for replacing the high pressure fuel pump? Looking for a labor time
My understand, which comes from the cummins 5.9 dodge uses, is it does not need to be timed. The whole idea behind common rail, is 1 common rail that feeds all injectors. The pump just supplies the pressure. Timing is done at the injector by the computer. They frequently fire multiple times during the combustion stroke. Non start issues with the dodges are frequently related to the rail not building pressure. Mostly because the injectors can leak internal, which makes it hard for the pump to build pressure. If the computer doesn't see enough pressure, it won't fire the injectors and you get a no start condition. Less frequent is a high pressure pump problem, but they can fail because of a failed lift pump.
Not sure if this will help but best I could find not being familiar with the machine. That said I'm kind of glade I retired before the company bought the Cat Skid-Steer to replace the 1989 Case 1845C that Case lasted for about 20 years with original fuel pump and injectors, engine hardly ever touched!
Well if nothing else it sounds like the tech has taken some time to TS the basics and been in contact with his tech support group. The right steps. Sometimes things are not straight forward. We have all been there. So do you rush on site and condemn the pump in 1 hr or go through everything as odds are it’s not the pump but in the end it is. Easy to look in from the outside as shoulda coulda woulda. I guess we shall see. Also With the complex fuel systems and everything having a sensor, and being monitored I was told they are timed so the pulses of the injection and pump work together.
[QUOTE="Satish, post: 925021Also, why does a common rail setup require the pump to be timed?[/QUOTE] The high pressure fuel pump is a piston type. It's timed so the strokes of the pump coincide with the injectors firing.
I'm having the same issue with my 14 259D. Just wondering if the high pressure pump solved your issues? How did he test it to diagnose the problem?
He's never been back since then. Maybe try sending him a PM and hope the system emails him but unlikely. I don't know anything specific about this model, but HPCR are similar across brands. I would think hooking ET up to the engine and seeing if rail pressure is rising to where expected when cranking would be a good first step, after you have eliminated all the dumb things. I did have a Deere unit once that was having trouble making pressure to start due to a rail leak back to tank. A little whiff of you know what made it start right up. But it was a clapped out junker so I did not feel very guilty about doing that to it. And it was a very tiny amount.
Maybe you would be better off starting a new thread. If you do then please post your machine Serial Number as a first step. Also mention whatever work you have done so far to diagnose the problem.
It might also pay you to go back and check out all the links posted earlier in this thread. There are a number of different (potential) issues to look at in the fuel system LONG before you get to expensive parts such as the HP fuel pump.