I would have to say, I have been monitoring this site for a long time and I am very impressed with the content contained within. I work Caterpillar Inc. in our compact construction products and this site has provided me a lot of insite into the pros and cons of our products, services, and a view into the industries we serve. I would be curious to hear anyone's opinion about Caterpillar sponsoring and or offering a similar site where customers like yourself can post product questions, service issues, maintenance assitance, safety concerns, product ideas..etc. Please let me know what your think..be honest!!! Our customer's voice determines a lot of what we do.
This sounds too good to be true. I have always been a fan of Cat ,but are starting to have my faith tested somewhat . This Idea of your thread is a great one,but A would like to know for sure you are who you say you are [someone with real influence to improve the product] ,and not a sheep in wolves clothing ,here to gather up ammunition to throw back at the faithfull B That Complaints be seen as constructive] criitisizm C would be disapointed if the thread is hijacked by the likes of our resident ''broken record '' Hitrack hater Kind regards
Good Thoughts I agree 100% on all 3 thoughts. It is key that we open the doors to "you" the customer and let you know that we value your opinion and thoughts, regardless if those thoughts are negative or positive. We would like to make "experts" available in all areas to our customers with profiles on their background and areas focus. For example: From Dec 1st until Dec 31st, John Doe, of the Excavator design division will be available to answer your questions and provide feedback on the current model of 320 size excavator. Ideally, all thoughts, comments, and discussions would be summarized and delivered to the right "ear". What expectations would you have in regards to posting product, service, issues and problems? Any other thoughts?
Hey Gdmason76. I have spent some time on your safety site, and there is a lot of good info there. Personaly i think a spesific cat site may be to "special" for the broad user groups on the net. I beliewe it might go into a type of "special club". And then may end into that u don't get the opinion of the broad users of equipment. And i beliewe one of the goals would be to get the opinion from many, not only the cat users.(cause they are "fans" already) But a talk with Steve F might give u a corner or threads here.. And that way u will get a broader public reacting on the info/questions/maintenance u post. And there is always the possibility to send a PM if u don't wan't to post it. And maybe we can get some of the other producers on the scene.
Hi, Do you work for Gregory Poole CAT in Raleigh. I noticed it said you were from Cary, NC and that was the only cat dealer I could think of. I'm in Raleigh.
No, I work for Caterpillar Inc.
Sounds like an excellent idea. My dad currently owns a couple pieces of Cat compact equipment and I would be more than willing to throw my two cents in about things that could/should be changed on the equipment that we have. Starting with the buckets, pin grabber coupler, and hydraulic thumb on our 303CR. I have a few choice words about the overall construction and ease of operation with these tools. Nothing too serious, but it seems like the pin grabber never works correctly, the buckets (12" and 24") are falling apart with less than 300 hours on each and we're not working in rock very often, and the thumb bushings and pins are a little less than mediocre. With that said, I'm a BIG advocate of Cat and always will be, my dad also won't buy anything else. However, I've been exposed to operating other makes through various employers. :usa
I think it sounds like a great idea gdmason76 but I don't know what your dealers will think about getting bypassed and folks dealing directly with Cat Inc. on a public forum :beatsme
A 'Cat' Forum????????????????????? Hi, GDMason76. If you have been monitoring this site for any great length of time, you will probably have gained an idea of who and/or what most of the more common contributors are. For myself, I am a pretty dedictated Cat fan but by no means one-eyed about it. I do think though that IF a window could be opened where feedback from a site such as this got back to Cat. Inc. and the R&D people and the design people took a SERIOUS look at it, that might just give Cat an edge that few if any of their competition have. I say 'IF' in capital letters for what I consider to be a pretty fair reason, that I have not seen much evidence of any feedback being seriously considered in the past, especially from outside of the U.S.A.. Just as a 'f'rinstance', Cat, along with most of the other light dozer manufacturers, seems to have almost TOTALLY abandoned the idea of outside push arm dozers below the D6N or equivalent in favour of PAT blades. Now I grant you that a LOT of these smaller dozers ARE used for cleaning up and rough/finish grading, especially from what I can gather, in your country, However, YOUR country is NOT the be-all-and-end-all of the small dozer market and a dozer of around 100 hp and 15 tons with wide gauge, long track frames AND OUTSIDE push arms on a bull/tilt or semi-U dozer blade would be ideal for the work that I do here in South-East Queensland, DownUnder. Whether high sprocket or 'oval-tracked' is not all that important. What IS important is that it have good to great slope ability, be capable of reasonably heavy clearing within the limits of its weight and power, able to dig out rocks and stumps with the corner of the blade and bulk push material somewhat more efficiently than any PAT dozer that I have yet seen. PAT blades don't have the lift for clearing much in the way of trees, they are somewhat uncomfortable with taking heavy loads on the corners of the blade and they are just plain NOT good, efficient bulk earth movers. Diff. steer, while being all very easy to use, is a real PITA when working in tight spaces such as are commonly encountered in our work on house sites. They usually seem to involve the long way round for the LONG way home. Clutch-and-brake or hydrostatic drive are the preferred options in our work. Sure, the diff. steer is supposed to contra-rotate. I have run a Cat D6H and a D6R and they DID NOT like contra-rotating in anything but IDEAL conditions, i.e. firm to hard ground, and then somewhat reluctantly. Up until about 6 weeks ago the company for whom I work had a Cat D5B, wide gauge, 44X series dozer with an after-market ripper and a scrub/brush canopy. I did a LOT of work with this machine, leveling house sites to +/- 3/4", clearing, spreading 60,000 tons of shale fill dumped from trucks ahead of a Cat 825C compactor and cutting some 'different' driveways in some difficult country, among other jobs. It was simply a magic little machine for the work that it did. MY question: What do Cat now manufacture that is around that same size WITH an outside push arm blade AND a good set of 'hooks' with around 2-foot penetration? (The after-market ripper on the D5B carried 2 x 2-foot shanks and handled them very well, thank you.) Another 'f'rinstance': Cat has stopped making the 943 track loader or any close equivalent. The 943 with a 4-in-1 bucket and rear 'scarifiers' was/is the ideal size and type of machine for the bulk of the work that we do, clearing, levelling and prepping house sites for building. My employer has 6 of them and 3 x 953's. He is considering buying second-hand 943's in the U.S., shipping them over here, re-furbishing where necessary and putting them to work because good 943's are getting to be like hen's teeth and rocking horse manure DownUnder. Your comments, PLEASE? I agree that IF a window could be opened and results achieved, that would be a wonderful thing. However, in this case, I suspect that I might 'be from Missouri', so to speak. I may need to be shown. I wish you well with this 'project' if you decide to try to implement it and you can count on my support, at least while it has the appearance of being serious.
To address a couple things: First of all, there is a great conversation started here. I appreciate everyones input, excellent information. PLEASE understand that I cannot discuss and or provide product information, or assitance in any way. I am only here to gauge the acceptance of a forum/blog that may or may not be provided by Caterpillar Inc. This is only a hypothetical.... gaining your insites into the pros / cons, concerns, etc is exactly what I am looking for. The concerns that we may be bypassing a dealer with a service of this type is wrong. IF, and a big IF at that, we were to start offering an outlet like this for our customers we would include the dealer in every step of the way. The relationship we have with our dealers is #1. The input would be shared and discussed. We are not only looking to speak to Caterpillar customers, but the users of construction equipment in all industries. Additional Questions: What is the number one motivation to belong to a group like this, and what is the biggest benefit you get from it? Thanks again for everyone's input!! I will be discussing your thoughts and comments with my team in the next day or so! Get your thoughts in today!
I think this site already answers all those questions. it also compares different brands with the pros & cons of each. This site, which already has a very large deversified membershipis already established, would be a good location to see how well your idea would work out. Just my .02 cents Dwan
I personally are a dozer man,with long experiance mostly as owner operater of D4 s. I still own a D4 E . Spent a couple of yrs driveing in Australia ,on Older machines 9G 8K 7G D85 Komatsu also some time on Diff steer 8 N [I think that was the letter.] I was most taken with it. Then in last yr or so have dry hired D4 H D6M D7R I have had much time to compare with Komatsu either good or bad,but get a lot of good feedback about them. My veiw alway was that tho Cat were never the highest performance machines ,they were reliable ,had good resale value,and exellent backup here with Goughs in NZ. Goughs however have in there wisdom managed to get rid of all there long service and experianced Cat trained mechanics,and employ what seems to me to be anyone off the street ,and charge like wounded bulls. Most of these guys ,if I mentioned a 7U D4 or a 12A 955,would look at me thinking I am from Mars I find there parts service still good,tho lots are overseas,and we have to pay to get them freighted here. Getting Back to dozers My favourite gripe is the silly clutch brake steering,where they have no foot brakes,but are both on the clutch lever or toggle. This is a fool of an idea,with no merits what so ever. We still have legs to climb into the machine ,so we may as well use them to control brakeing in a far smoother ,and more reliable way. Why o Why are they built this way .Can only assume its cheaper. I have many more issues but will restrict myself to one more for now. Fuel consumption . This 7R Ive just had hired ,Im sure has the computor ,and Im told these are so nessasary [along with other things] to get max performace with least fuel cost etc. This thing has neither .Its like driveing an old D9G and burns almost 50 ltrs fuel an hr. What advances have been made ,other than the loverly cab and air con etc,over the old 7G ,Im sure its certainly no better machine. Thanks for letting me bend your ear . Regards PS My wifes not what she was either,but I cant see me changing now.
That's priceless... does she browse HEF?
Maybe it would be wise for Cat to sponsor this site and get there own Section here. I would be more then happy to post my thoughts and such there, but there just ain't enough time in the day to be visiting more sites then I do now. I'm not saying I wouldn't check it out, but unless I had a strong opinion on something or had a question that I haven't found an answer on I doubt I'd visit it.
In answer to both halves of the question, without a doubt, it's the peer-to-peer exchange of information and experiences that is the very fabric of a site like this one. We're a group of like-minded individuals who come together here to both learn from and teach each other, both through direct questions and answers, and simply, shared experiences. That process, builds a sense of "community", and that sense of community is what keeps our members interested and involved. It's what makes the guys who've forgotten more than I'll ever know, willing to answer questions from somebody who's just bought their first machine, and doesn't know diesel fuel from hydraulic fluid.
Hi, GDMason76. Quote: "Originally Posted by gdmason76 Additional Questions: What is the number one motivation to belong to a group like this, and what is the biggest benefit you get from it? " Personally, I'm here because I have well over 45 years of 'butt-in-seat' time behind me on a LOT of different types of machines in a LOT of different applications and I can't see any sense at all in taking all that knoweldge and experience to the grave with me. Forums such as this give me the chance leave some of that knowledge and experience behind with others who will appreciate and use it - and hopefully, pass it on in their turn. Strange as it may seem with all that experience behind me, I also learn from different folks here as well and that is a plus for me. If I ever stop learning, I reckon I'll be dead from the neck up. I occasionally receive e-mails from people I've never even heard of asking for help about some aspect of operating, maintenance or repairs on some machine or other. This leads me to believe that there might also be a fair population of people who come to this and other forums and read a fair bit without posting much if anything. They quite possibly take notice of who posts what and choose a likely person to ask by e-mail if they have a problem or query. (My e-mail is on display on my profile.)
I find the idea intrigueing but see lots of problems. All the end users I've worked for have had little problem voicing opinions with the manufactures. All the dealers I've worked for have had little problem sticking a manufacturer's rep in front of an irate owner and using them as a shield. I know of manufacturers that have paid for focus groups for specific info into the perceptions of their products. Your initial proposal sounded to me like a marketing type looking for a way to get free information. I am a little leary of your statements of working for Cat when I know they have specific policies regarding public statements. Cat has always been big on confidentiality. The biggest problem would be with certain kinds of info getting loose that might cost someone extensive amounts of money. Many of us have had, or worked for people that have had, machines that didn't live up to expectations or worse. While it might give somone a place to vent at the manufacturer's expense, it also might drop the value of the machines that others already own. Could that be considered a "Cause of Action"? On the other hand what would happen if statements were made that were not true? What would be the manufacturer's, dealer's or owner's remedy for real or perceived monetary damages? I think a non aligned and anonymous site like this brings out the kinds of responses you are looking for without putting dollar signs in the eyes of hungry attorneys. As has been shown by the responses to you post, the system is working.
Caterpillar Forum I've worked closely with Caterpillar at various times over the last 40 some years, and always had a good relationship with several Cat National Account Reps and Operator Trainers. Unfortunately, most are now retired or passed away. They were some great people. Same with various dealer people from coast to coast. Mostly all good people. Thing with Caterpillar (and other manufacturers), is that they usually seemed to pay more attention to larger customers. People like the Kiewit's, the Greens, the SJ Groves and Guy Atkinson's, etc. I saw Cat lose sales because of this and while I realize that you have to butter up your active customers, you have to butter up potential customers as well. One of the reason Cat had such a difficult time breaking into the municipal market. They ignored it for a long, long time. Same with the big road shows -- ConExpo and MineExpo. Unless you happen to know someone from Cat at the show, chances are you will be given the brush off pretty quickly, even if you show a lot of interest in some specific product or design or simply want to know more. However, once you got to know someone at the factory or senior district management level, you had direct access to all kinds of information and assistance that one would never have suspected existed. Personally, I think a Cat forum would be great. Tis true that there is a lot of information and experience asked for and freely given here, but there is a lot that doesn't pertain, and I've noticed that the one or two Cat factory people on the forum don't volunteer a lot of information. There is a fairly good example of give and take online and that is the GM site. Visit that and see what's talked about there. Pretty interesting and there are a lot of factory people reading and writing comments on the site. I don't visit it often but as I'm starting to show signs of needing a new vehicle I may look at the website more as time moves forward. Now a lot of the old guys I knew at the Cat house, they didn't know what a computer was for, except maybe as a door stop over at building KK. The internet was a complete mystery to them and they would be amazed to see what it's become. Not that they wouldn't have used it, they were pretty sharp and original thinkers all of them. Excellent problem solvers and they knew the product line inside and out. That would be the kind of person the proposed site would need. I suppose a financial and accounting type would also be useful, as I see those kinds of questions on this site fairly often. Keep in mind that whomever is cast to be a writer from Cat would have to be knowledgeable about Cat iron worldwide. That may be a tall order to fill, but a Cat moderator could also select from a bag full of Cat factory experts, so that ought not be a big problem. Give it a go, can't hurt.
i own 3 excavators, 2 end loaders, coupla trucks...cat doesn't waste their time w/me...nor i them. i don't want them on my jobsite
Re Cat Forum being hijacked. Hi, Motat. Re a Cat forum being hijacked by people such as the anti-hi-track obsessive, that is why all these forums have moderators and administrators. I think Steve, Digger, Squizzy, et al, have been very patient, tolerant and very fair with the 'malcontents' who have come to this site and I commend them for it. Those in similar positions on a forum such as has been proposed would need to be at least as patient, tolerant and fair in dealing with similar situations on such a forum 'cos ONE of the stated objectives of such a site would need to be to provide space for people to air their grievances and complaints. How-Wevver, the people who have been a PITA here, like most of their ilk anywhere, soon give away the fact that they have an agenda. Once they do this, it would be time to give some serious consideration to jumping on them. Having said that, have you noticed that the people in question who do the ranting and raving here have been somewhat conspicuous by their absence lately? I have. Do you suppose that being exposed as being less than they claimed to be by various members of this forum may have had something to do with that? We, the ordinary members, may not have the power to stop such people posting on forums such as this but we can, as sure as God made little apples, let them know that their lines are not being swallowed. If they persist in pedalling their favourite agendas after that, it would then be time for the moderators/administrators to step in. Hope this helps to set your kind at rest in this regard.
I can assure you that gdmason76 is indeed with CAT.
A little whingeing, perhaps - or maybe some posing. Hi, Digger 242j. I would have thought that, as an administrator, you would have more power and control on this site than the poor downtrodden super moderator you claim has been victimizing you with cyber-graffiti. Please correct me if I'm wrong - - - - - or quit maligning 'Der Squiz' if I'm right. LOL.
I excercise my power and control by allowing poor, downtrodden Squizzy to abuse me . If not he'd have to compensate for his insecurities by abusing the members, and we can't alllow that... :cool2
Insecurities???????????????/ Hi, Digger242j. So what does 'Der Squiz' have to say about this?????????? LOL.
I wish I had never bought up the possibility of GD Mason ,being a sheep in wolves clothing . I hearby accept he is who he says he is. I also hearby accept that the moderators will exercise proper control. I am a rather simple soul ,not normally a conspiricy theorist ,and wouldd rather give people the benifit of dought. Lets just get on with it.and dont look at this gift horse in the mouth. Im afraid that this talk of possible lawsuits etc etc ,has my head spinning ,and is all to much for my tiny brain. WOuld be a good start to get an anwer to my question on the later clutch brake system as pr my 1st post. Kind regards
Its a shame I couldn't ask about a specific older Caterpillar product, been looking for info on a 325BL excavator based coal-shovel for ages and found absolutely nothing (tried Finning and they didn't seem to know either). Sites like these are an invaluable tool even for someone like me who has never had a job working on, with or around heavy machinery. People like Deas Plant, Motat and plenty of others have endured my countless questions with a high level of patience. I can indeed say I've learned alot from boards such as this one and others. It would be nice if Caterpillar might look at some ideas discussed on boards like these and take them into consideration. Afterall, who knows the pro's and con's of a design better than those who work on them, whether its an operator or mechanics point of view?
Actually, proper control would be to immediately quash any attempt (be it intentional or inadvertant), to hijack this thread into a discussion of how Squizzy and I kid each other back and forth. Which is what I'm going to do now. Back to the subject of a Caterpillar forum.... Reference, the answers to specific equipment questions--I'm not sure what gdmason has in mind, and really know no more about it than what you've read in this thread. Generally, we do a pretty fair job of being able to answer specific questions, although occasionally, somebody comes up with one that none of the forum regulars seem to be able to address. That's one reason I'm always happy to see the technical folks joining and taking part--there's just so much to know, and while a guy like Deas has strong opinions about what makes a good or bad machine, and can tell you how to sink a dam, or cut a batter, those are things that can be done with any number of makes or models of machine. When it gets into, "Why does my "Cater-motsu-belco C-94-A, Series II" dirt-mover go "clunk" when I turn left with a full bucket?", it's good to have somebody that knows exactly what makes em tick. To the guy with the problem, it matters little whether the guy with the answers is speaking in an official "factory representative" capacity, or simply as a forum member that "knows a thing or two about them dirt movers", as long as the answer is forthcoming. At the same time, the guys at the factory want to know if their products in the field are going "clunk" at inappropriate times, and what the customers think about that. It's the two-way exchange of information....correction--it's the ten or twenty-way exchange of information that makes these froums tick...
Clutch-and-brake Vs Inter-connected. Hi, Motat. I agree with you 100% about the earlier separate clutch and brake system being smoother than the inter-connected systems. I have never yet used a Cat inter-connected steering system that was as smooth as the earlier style. With the D8K's and D9H's, I used to use the foot brakes for anything a bit delicate - like picking up scrapers on the run with no bump - or dodging pegs. Most of the machines later than those didn't give you the option. All you have is levers. Even with the Cat D5B that I ran for 2 1/2 years, I used the foot pedals for delicate work. Much smoother. Didn't do a lot of push-loading with the D5B but did push a few trucks out of places they oughtn't have gone in the first place. Hi, Gavin. Thank you for your kind comments. My main aim in being on sites like this is to save people having to learn the hard way what I have gathered the hard way in the last 40+ years. It makes the effort worthwhile when I hear comments like yours or when people tell me that information I have given them has made their work easier. Another aim of being here is to see that some people - who shall remain nameless, at least for the time being - don't go around spreading mis-information, as they have tried to do in the past. Hasn't it been peaceful the last 3 weeks or so?
Did I miss somethin?? :beatsme (sorry, I was out workin for a livin)
Thanks DeasPlant I was starting to wonder if it is just my own heavy fisted ,ineptitude ,that was the cause of my dislike of the 2 in one system. I recall now the D6D that has both and would catch out a silly old fool,when I pull back clutches all the way ,as always had done. The other real horror is a D3 I drove for very short time [thank god] this thing had it all on the pedals,and combined with a fixed trackframe ,was diabolical on hilly and rough terrain,while hanging on to a silly handrail with left hand,and trying not to stomp on the foot ,clutch brake too hard. Brain surgens that designed that ,have never been off the flat obviously The other bad aspect of these silly systems is ,the limited ability to back steer,someting particulaly important when pushing an uphill track in damp ground on an out bend. Also Deas,I agrea with you about the lack of a lighter tractor without the 6 Way blade. Its great to have all the bells and whistles and not have to change angle blades,but they certainly have there shortcomeings. IE Have been on a D6M .Now when that blade swings to a full angle,the outside tip of the blade is more or less in line with the outside track line,which means that the track is climbing on any spillage off the side cut, Also ,if you try and side cut with it angled,it just screws the thing into the cut.Bloody hopeless Also it seems that the blades ,stand up too flat ,and dont roll the material ,alway tending to lift the blade when full. Certainly are not a production machine. It sounds to me that you and I work in somewhat similar areas ,often steep ,and hard and in need of a good all rounder. Unfortunatly I have grown a bit fond of these nice cosey cabs now,or would stick to my dear old D4 E ,must be getting old and soft eh. As regards our ''broken record'' yes ,isnt silence golden. You know . [Too dear, too cheap,wrong colour,tracks a bit worn,maybe burning some oil,ash tray full ,could the work be running out ,etc etc etc etc etc. PS This is a good site this eh. Our other one seems to have gone a bit flat of late . Never anyone on the chat thingy nowdays it seems. Regards
I agree that the dual-purpose controls like those on the K-series 8's and H-series 9's were not the best idea that Cat ever came up with. Like most of the older operators here I learned and grew up with the individual hand & foot controls, and I prefer them today still over the combo style. I was never crazy about the foot-only steering that Cat offered on the traxcavator loaders and small dozers either. I am one of those individuals that has some trouble coordinating hand-foot movements so always found these types awkward to use. I recently operated a Cat D4C with the foot steering & brake. I didn't like it at all and thankfully, it has gone away. As others mentioned, it was a little bear on slopes and places where you had to hang on with both hands just to stay in the seat and was always dificult backing up when working hillsides. Years past I was pretty competent on 955 and 977 loaders. Digging basements and backfilling was a piece of cake. Loading trucks was another matter and the level of stress went way up as one tried to avoid hitting the truck when spotting the load. I do like the tiller steering Cat has now tho the act of counter-rotating the tracks has little actual value, to me anyway. Sometimes the turning ability is not as strong as I would like either, one of the places where having a good steering brake pedal would be pretty useful you know. I guess all the Cat systems have their strong and weak points. I always liked the International or Eimco systems of steering. The International had the two-speed steering -- with a brake when you pulled the lever all the way back. It was very nice and gave you positive control. The Eimco had the control sticks for steering with individual foot brakes, it was pretty effective as well. Other systems, such as that on Euclid's and Allis Chalmers worked OK, as have the various Komatsu controls I've encountered. I was rather surprised when Cat came out with the PAT blades for D5/6 size machines. I've used such systems since the early sixties on Deere 450's, but I never saw any use for them on the larger units and still do not today. It is a trade off in all ways and as such, you do not have the full benefit of any of them. It particularly lacks in strength in hard or rocky material. That isn't a problem for the little fellows, they don't normally work in such stuff. This gets off topic a bit as the original question was on the merits of a Cat only forum, which I still believe to be a good idea. There has been at least one comment that solidifies my earlier point about manufacturers ignoring the small contractors or individual machine owners. While not a cure for that, a Cat website forum would at least allow that person to make his displeasure known to the brass hats in the big Cat house in Peoria. They, unfortunately, often do not get down to dirt level like most of us do everyday, to see what's happening.
Joe, I don't think anyone here or any end users that I know would be against it... so it should just be a matter of where its hosted. As Cat is a global company with machines designed and built all over the world, with so many lines and potential topics, parts, service, marketing, technical questions, even different languages etc. I would think that Cat would just have to host it from Cat.com.
Are you for real? gdmason76, Nice of you to ask the folks here about what motivates us and how it benefits us. What about you? All this for CAT end user? If you cannot discuss or provide information or assistance, what is in for the group here? As you have mentioned, your CAT dealers relationship is utmost important. I know that all CAT dealers have constant communication with Caterpillar through your reps. They constantly and consistently give feedback on machine preformance and product issues. Does Caterpillar really listen? You would have better excavator market share if you did. Thanks for trying. Perhaps a glimmer of hope left at Caterpillar.
Welcome to HEF CATUSED! :drinkup
The pros and cons of different systems. Hi, Motat. I wonder if GDMason76 is still reading this thread? LOL. I have spent a fair bit of time on Cat track loaders with full pedal steering and I quite like it. It is possible with a bit of practice to learn to cross-steer or back-steer with them and, strange as it may seem, the full pedal steering on the track loaders is way smoother and more accurate than the interated all-on-the-levers system on the dozers. At least in my humble estimation. I don't know why that should be as I think they are basically similar systems except that one is activated by a hand control and the other by foot pedal. I still think that the most sensible and durable PAT blade system that I have ever used was on an OLD Case 1000 dozer. This blade was based on a 'C' frame which mounted OUTSIDE the track frames, the same as a normal angle/tilt blade. The angling rams were mounted on top of the 'C' frame and fore and aft along it and were covered to protect them. The tilt rams were where the tilt braces are on a normal angle/tilt blade and the hoses to the tilt rams were routed forward from the push trunnions to the blade center pivot and then along the back of the blade to the tilt rams. The only real downside to it was that it had 3 separate levers to control all the functions - no joystick. I still didn't do a lot of stump or rock digging/removal with the corners of the blade but the blade itself had a LOT less leverage over the angle and tilt rams. Hi, Surfer Joe. Welcome to the 'Dinosaur Club'. I can usually get my hands and feet to do pretty much what I want them to - right up until I get on a dance floor with a good sort - but I still don't like the hand-opertaed inter-connected steering. I haven't tried it on many dozers yet, 1 x D4C back in 1997 to be precise, and I didn't like it there or then. I do however like the pedal steer on the powershift Cat track loaders but find that some of the hydrostatics can be a little flighty when travelling a bit quicker or working light.
To Add A Little. Hi, Folks. Just so that nobody mis-understands me, I want to say that I have nothing against the concept of interconnected steering on dozers, track loaders, etc.. My main complaint is with the implementation of the idea and the loss of sensitivity and control that has occurred as a result. I have run D8K's and D9H's with interconnected steering and D10 and D11R's with it and none of them handled as smoothly as the earlier D8H's and D9G's. Plus a body got more exercise with the older systems. I don't exercise much, not even running off at the mouth or jumping to conclusions, but I do enjoy the exercise of getting on an older machine with all those extra levers and pedals and the extra effort required to work them. For a while at least. The machine with interconnected steering that came closest to being as smooth as the earlier machines was the Cat D5B 44X series that I ran for around 2 1/2 years and it HAD to be pretty close to optimum adjustment of the brakes to achieve that. As also mentioned earlier, I have found the Cat track loaders with full pedal steering to be much smoother than the interconnected dozers. Having said that, I came across a British-built Cat 941B track loader that had separate steering levers and brake pedals. It handled quite well but I was only towing a drawn vibrating smooth-drum roller and only for one day. I was very pleased that I was NOT loading trucks with it.
Yes Deas Plant The point you make about the exercise is a very valid one. Im sure these bloody things these days are specifically designed for Paraplegics or whatever the term is for those with no leg function . I can see in future ,dozer drivers being lifted into the cab with a crane ,haveing lost the ability to walk,and there left hands being so weak ,they cant even lift a beer at the end of the day. Seats will have to be enlarged ,and perhaps Cat will go back to the future when they start getting sued for ,deep thrombosis or whatever it is you die from by sitting in one place too long without exercise And YES I am starting to wonder if GD.Mason is genuine or not haveing not heard a word back from him in defence of this latest crap. I supose the truth of the matter is that its cheaper to build,and the best we can expect is some Cat spin doctor ,fresh out of university ,who has never so much as sat on a dozer ,comeing up with some **** and bull story,as to why they are better . Regards
Well, considering that you two have effectively hijacked his thread from a discussion about a CAT forum, and made it into a CAT forum... :cool2
Did we hi-jack a thread? Where were the moderators? Hi, Motat. Did you hear what we've been accused of? If we did do that dastardly deed - and I'm not admitting that we did - where were all the moderators when we were supposed to have done it? Hi, Digger242j. Whether we hi-jacked the thread or not, I think it would be safe to say that what has been mentioned is but a tiny cross section of what such a forum might expect to receive. Is that not a good thing?
I thought it was pretty obvious he was just wanting input about starting a forum to air your compaints and praises about Cat equipment, and didn't intend that particular thread to be used that way. If somebody here asks a question about a particular machine and I have what I think might be somewhat valuable input, I'll post to it. If I wanted to gripe about all the little things wrong with the newer stuff that Cat's building these days I'd be on here almost everyday(don't even get me started about the 297C). I gotta get to work.
Shame, shame on me, Deas. I should have known that your intentions were strictly honorable. :notworthy I had considered "splitting" the thread--culling the sidebar discussion of machinery details from the discussion of forum details, into their own, new thread, but I always hesitate to use that particular moderator superpower. When particular posts contain some elements of two different discussion, it can leave both threads lacking in continuity. So, I'll pose a question to you now, that may be of some use to gdmason in running or participating in a CAT specific forum--Twice in this thread you've commented on moderational style; your reference above to my signature, and your last post. (As one who has never hesitasted to share you honest opinion), do you believe such a forum should be moderated in a strict, Gestapo-like manner, or allowed to be a completely free-form means of member expression of whatever happens to be floating down the member's stream of conciousness? Or, a compromise somewhere in between, and if so,where?
I am listening To all, Thanks again for all of your posts. It is great to see everyone's opinion and ideas in regards to a Caterpillar sponsored forum. I appreciate your input. Please know that I am not here to comment, assist, or help in any way. I am only here to monitor and read your thoughts and comments on the question I proposed in the beginning of this thread. At this time, I will take all of your comments and summarize them for our team here. I will be sure to come back and let you know what our thoughts are.
Kwestyuns????????????????? Hi, Digger242j. It may help if you go back and re-read posts #20 and #22 in this thread. Personally, I have nothing but praise for the way in which the various moderators and administrators run this site. That is an integral part of what makes it such a good site. Please feel free to ask any 'kwestyuns' that you may have after you have re-read post #20 and also post #22, especially the 'LOL' bit that I included in at the end of #22. (I WAS being facetious.) Even feel free to PM me if you wish.
Once again my lack of inletigence has got me confused. [ about a CAT forum, and made it into a CAT forum..] Sounds a bit like the crew of the Titanic,agueing over who should steer to avoid the Iceburg ,untill its too late I had the silly Idea that GD Mason was keen to hear our gripes about Cat machines ,so he could play a part in improveing Cat equipment . The other makes of equipment , no dought also have things that would annoy me,but haveing had such little experiance with them ,I am not qualified to comment. Nor would I rubbish them ,for the same reason. I have always been a Cat fan ,and my comments are intended as constructive critisizm ,in order that Cat can still be ''concidered ''as tops. Kind regards
Motat, gdmason76 stated he was interested in hearing opinions on whether a Caterpillar forum would be a good idea or not, not to make this an example of what the Caterpillar forum would be. I can see the difference. When I put this site together it was my hope that we'd eventually get enough traffic to attract major equipment manufacturers to join us providing direct communication between manufacturer and end user. I'm open to setting up manufacturer forums here to do just that.
Darn I've missed this thread for a while... gdmason76 -- I'd like to chat with you a little. I worked in Sanford last summer and have some questions for you that perhaps would be better posed not on the internet... my email is xwang22 [@at@] uiuc [.dot.] edu -- with the obvious symbols and no spaces replacing the "[@at@]" and "[.dot.]" In the meantime -- my two first questions are, how long have you been in Cary? Are you an ERD or in the MTC?
Hi, Deas. Please understand, I wasn't taking you to task for anything you said about our moderating. I do appreciate your kind words on the subject. At the same time, I do think you and Motat were getting away from the original topic. My personal view of the moderator's job is that it doesn't entail keeping threads on topic. I think the community itself is perfectly capable of excercising peer pressure in that regard, and I have no problem with any "opening poster", or other interested party, speaking up and steering the discussion back to the topic. If that results in conflict, only then do I think a moderator needs to step in. At the same time, I think your comment (which I bolded above), raises the question of whether that's the best approach, (patience, tolerance, and fairness notwithstanding). I was perfectly serious in saying that it might be of use for gdmason's purpose to discuss it, while at the same time, knowing it would be of use for our own purposes here. I'm sure gdmason's propsed forum would differ from ours, but both could benefit from the discussion. I've come to respect your opinions, because I believe that whatever they may be, they're going to be well thought out, and expressd with complete candor. That's why I posed that as a direct question to you, although everybody else is welcome to share their thoughts as well. I've been in contact with Mr. Mason via PM, and your silly idea is close to correct, but not quite. Mr. Mason is more in the marketing end of the business. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think it would be fair to say that his purpose in starting this thread was to explore ways in which channels could be opened to exchange those views, but this thread was specifically not intended to be such a channel. His part would be the equivalent of the lineman stringing the telephone wire. He is indeed "playing a part", but you'll need to wait until a design engineer picks up the phone at the other end before your opinions can be heard. I hope that clarifies things.
Still at odds [ In reply to Motat, Post #30 Back in the late seventies and into the very early eighties I spent a lot of time on D6D's, I was at odds with a lot of the operators I knew but not all, due to the fact that I liked that model and it looks like I still am. I will admit that they could be a bit choppy on fine trim work in sand or gravel type materials with an empty blade but their were ways to neutralize or at least minimise that. I remember I would adjust the clutch/brake levers so that the handel tops tilted towards each other so that they were only about an inch apart (for me my first finger tip control) and when dozing most of the time I steered using one finger for left and one for for the right. I also found that clutch/brake system realy good when hitching up to anything with a draw bar, I would hold one track by pulling the lever all the way out and the other track with the brake pedal only, then let the lever in real slow and that dozer would turn so smooth, this was real handy when connecting to somthing with a tight hitch pin. I am not familiar with the term back steer but imagine that it is what I know as cross steer, if it is I never had a problem, I used that same 2 finger method I mentioned earlier and in the case of the foot steer D3 and D4 a light foot. I think it was around 72 but anyway the year the D3 first came out, I was on a new one (obviously). what a fantastic dozer that was, twist grip throttle on the shift lever and foot steer, I had seen nothing like it up to that point, it was fantastic, great on slopes and a good trim machine. Later when CAT came out with the B series the first one I used had a ROPS cab, ripper, single reverse gear,no twist grip throttle and for some strange reason (keeping in mind that these machines were used a lot for backfilling behind bridges and triming alongside kerbs) not even a de-accelerator. What an abortion that dozer was! It did not compare to the older model on slopes, on the level either if it comes to it. At first we put that down to having the ripper on the back even though it could not have made that much difference to the wieght. Later I had one with the ROPS cab but no ripper it was about the same, later still, one with no cab, not even a canopy (pure sports model) and that thing still walked on it's heels. That grab rail above the guages soon loses the paint and the metal gets so smooth you would think it had been chromed! I think that CAT blade faces in general are not as free flowing as say Kmomatsu's, only my opinion but they just don't seem to roll dirt the same. I know the material makes a lot of difference but I have worked in a lot of different types and Komatsu blade faces allways seem to have more of a shine to them, just an observation. You can adjust the pitch of the blade of the D6M and D5M the N series too. I have made that adjustment to a lot of these models that I have used but have usually found the results to be lacking. I reckon that the angle the cutting edge lays against the blade is what CAT should be looking at? Lack of power in all the M and N models I have run and their has been quite a few, is a factor too I think. CAT have redeemd themselves with me in the last 3 months some what,I have been using a New D6R and in the last week a new 6T, they both have the ACERT engines and they have plenty of steam in them. One other difference between you and me, I never liked the D4E and with that I am going to stop
Everything in Moderation Hi, Digger242j. Quote: "Did you hear what we've been accused of? If we did do that dastardly deed - and I'm not admitting that we did - where were all the moderators when we were supposed to have done it? " Unquote. Have you seen my warped sense of humour at work? It's something to behold. It gets 'bites' from all sorts pf different 'fish', sometimes when I don't even think there's any bait on the hook, so to speak. May I put it to you that I WAS being facetious when I asked the (much) quoted question. 'Cos I was. There have been a couple of examples lately of the forum members 'keeping law and order' on their own and I must say that I for one find it very peaceful hereabouts in the aftermath of those examples. Do you know which particular threads and people I am referring to? No, I don't believe the 'jackboots and riding crop' approach to moderating is the way to go. In fact, I had an exchange of PM's with Squizzy on this very topic back in the days when the above mentioned threads were progressing through the 'law and order' phase. That discussion led to some of the 'law and order' being applied to where it seems to have done the most good. We can only wait and see for how long those results last. In the meantime, keep up your wonderful 'non'-moderating.
LDK Thanks for your great post. As I recall D6D had foot brake as well as on steering clutch. Funny too ,I have no recollection of that system on 8K or 9G as someone else mentioned.Perhaps they bought them out on later models ?? Your comment on lack of power on D6M mystifies me ,as the one I hired seemed to have heaps.Lack of traction to use it would be my complaint. I was told it was 140 HP ??? and its really only a D5 at about 15 ton [bare bummed] The 7R lacked power and am told its 28 ton with rippers.Also told it is only about 200 HP s ???o power to weight ratio much less. These HP I quoted ,may well be wrong ,and would like to have them comfirmed or corrected . The old D4 E is only 75 HP and weighs over 11 ton with winch and canopy,but being a direct drive is a lot more lively than the PS. long track one I drove ,which was rather pathetic. They are exactly the same machine as were the latest D4 D with fancy hood and operator area. Kind regards
Hi Motat, I don't have much time but just wanted to say that the 8K and 9H had the same set up as the 6D the 9G did not and if my memory serves me right (it rarely does) the 7G had the same steering set up as the 6D . Beileve it or not I have seat time in on 7G's and can't remember, could be due to my indifference to any model D7 I have ever run, including the Hi drives. Chau
Understood. Like I said, it raised the question though, at least in my mind, so I thought I'd ask it. Thanks for your reply. Darn. I was so looking forward to the opportunity to grab my riding crop and scream, " YOU VILL SCHTICK TO ZIS TOPIC, UND YOU VILL ENJOY IT!!" :cussing {sigh} I guess I'll just have to vent my repressed rage in some other manner...
Hear! Hear! So long as the manufacturers would respect the free flowing style that is a big part of what makes this forum so good. Even those with off the wall opinions or agenda's all their own ad to the content in a positive way. We need those people so as to gauge where we are in the overall scheme of things. The manufacturer people would need to participate in the same manner. No PC stuff. Just my two or three cents worth…….
This was certainly a great idea... was there any progress made with CAT Inc. gdmason?
Any Progress. Hi, Wulf. Patience, my dear fellow, patience. I suspect that getting anything like this off the ground may be a little like mating elephants - Everything happens at a very high level, with a lot of trumpeting and it takes 2 years to get any results.
To PUSHCAT You made reference to the 297C in a bad way What is the problem? I thought they were improved - look like a nice machine, lots of nice new features? I want to know more and value your input on it. Geno
I thought of one thing -- Cat has a few websites that publish its specalogs (the govbidspec and cat.com being the two most prominent), but they're not always synced. Sometimes, for instance, govbidspec will have newer specalogs than cat.com, so it's always a question of which one is more accurate. (The 450E appears on govbidspec but not on cat.com, as an example.) Is there a way to link the two or otherwise make them have the same literature?
A Cat site like this would be a great service. I have developed contacts with both Wagner and Whayne Cat Dealerships. There is a guy with Wagner in Denver who has been a blessing for me as a farmer with a Cat 2005 D3G. A lot of people have boats, nice cars, etc. For me my D3G is both useful and enjoyable. It is good to have a place to talk about these machines. A site dedicated to Cat equipment would attack Cat mechanics and employees who could be very helpful. This is not to say it would be better than this site. I thing it is hard to duplicate the diversity here.
I think having a cat section right here on HEF (other brands having sections aswell) is a great idea for support of us and for us to share ideas with them and maybe we can have sneek peeks at new machines and options. Just my 2 cents
Cat as a corporation have stated their intention to focus on what the customer wants, so perhaps now is the time to resurrect this. To my mind they've spent the last two decades making their machines as complicated as possible regardless of whether customers are asking for the technology, bells and whistles. There will be enough add-ons forced onto the machine by legislation (e.g. exhaust aftertreatment) without all the gizmos to automatically kick down the transmission, vary the speed the blade lifts, etc. By the way, whatever happened to Deas?
CAT D7E (eletric); Can anyone tell me about these units, We have read about them but none have been delivered to Australia yet, probly next 2or3 years before we will see one down under Cheers Leroy:drinkup
Deas Plant I know nothing about Heavy equipment , However Iam 64 and I have always done all my own Mechanic work , Raised on a Farm I read you have Experience with D8 I have a good friend who has an old D8, the Steering Brakes are Frooze or not Working, can you Please tell me how to Trouble Shoot it
how and where does the tack on a cat 730 articulated truck pickup ....i am having trouble with the tack its reading 0 all the time
If possible could you provide a serial number for this 730?
The steering/brake control valve has 4 test ports. You may want to test these pressures to determine if you have a linkage problem or hydraulic problem. Oil supply is from the transmission pump with a priority valve that supplies oil to the steering valve first. If you need more info I would need a machine serial number.
hi sorry to but in on this i am having a lot of trouble identifying my cat 3208t marine engine . no data tags on rockers .i can not find a stamped no on the block . is there a number on the injector pump? can not find tags . can anybody on hear help thanks Ricky
hey i am new on here and have many questions about CAT. I have recently started the diesel program at Tennessee Tech. I want to work on or for CAT machines, but sadly only have 1 cat engine in our shop. I want to learn everything i can about these machines but have no starting point. I might start the CAT university online program in the near future, but from what i have seen of it its just basics. I would also like to find out about any specialty tools used on CATs i might need. Thanks, any help is greatly appretiated
I worked for a local dealership at the time the D7E came out, i am also an operator by trade. My first impression of this machine was positive, with the electric drive and conventional tracks make it unique, the machine i ran had a mechanical angle blade (pipeline). i believe the younger generation will pick it up a lil easier than the older generation due to the response of the machine blade is Extremely sensitive! The visibility out the sides is very good but i you are use to running a similar machine like an D8T with the little window in the center its a change bc you are use to looking out that window to see where you are going. on the D7E you are constantly leaning to the side to look forward. We had 2 machine on the job and both of them had broken glass on one of these doors bc they are soo big they end up swinging around with a lil wind. I think it will find its place but the blade sensitivity has to have a couple settings like the K series.
The title of this thread obviously lures inexperienced HEF users to post questions about CAT stuff in general. It was started by a member seeking input on CAT itself having an online forum, not as a catch-all thread for questions pertaining to CAT products. Since it long ago fulfilled the purpose for which it was started, I think we can do without the ongoing confusion it seems to create.