Looks like a good deal for a Cat D7,8,9 pony motor on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com:80/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190274073604&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123
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Deal Looks like somebody got a good deal. $443 !
If it runs, a very good deal!
I got one setting in the shop which came of a D7E which needs head gasket, and ring gear if anyone is interested. Switched this machine to direct electric.
They don't have water pumps & I can't think of any use for one ?? I've got 3 are 4 laying in my yard if anybody wants 1!!!!
Best thing you ever did for that D7
Dpete, I have owned this machine since 1989 and have done a pile of work with blade and scraper both with it. The pony worked great for a long time. I could not complain on it until it started bothering on the last job the machine was on with the pony motor. What about best thing for me? I am the guy who has to start it. Oh ya, it works great. The worst part of the conversion was making a bracket to mount a 24 volt alternator.
Yeah, I did the same to a D8H and never looked back. As you said the starting engine works well but is far more complicated and alot more to go wrong than the 2 or 3 moving parts with the direct start. I sold that machine a few years ago and moved on to D8K's so it's been a awhile since I pulled on that bendix lever, did it for years though.
Greg, Do you still have your pony motor for the D7?
If GREG can't help you am still have some D7 PARTS
Pony Motor Thanks Hector. Do you have a gas pony motor for a D7? if so what condition is it in and how much $ you want for it? where is it located?
Sorry d7bush. Long gone. Had fire in my old shop almost three years ago. It went when the mess got cleaned up. I had the idea I was going to rebuild it, not sure what for, so that is why it got kept for several years. Cat used the same pony motor on D7, D8 and D9's so any one of them will work for you. Be careful of the series though because the later ones came with an oil filter and the support bracket on the front was different. Basic engine design was the same.
Thanks for the tip Greg. Will look around more...
These poney are't all the same model some have different front cover, governor, magneto,water pipe,exhaust pipe,front bracket,carburator,crankshaft and more
How do the Cats actually start on direct electric? I was under the impression that the pony also heated the jacket water and ran the exhaust into the Cat intake therefore performing a lot of preheating. Do you have to give it a healthy dose of ether when starting cold or is there some kind of electric heater that can be added?
If the installation is complete factory original it included glow plugs plus ether start for really cold temperatures.
How were the glow plugs installed? Did you have to remove the heads, drill and tap? Or do it on the machine?
Direct electric start machines used different pre-combustion chambers that were predrilled to accept the glow plugs.
I'm not sure if we are talking about exactly the same thing here. You might be talking about engines that were direct electric from the factory? I was wondering how you got a machine that was originally a pony start to start with an electric starter. Surely in cold temperatures they needed a lot more help than just spinning the engine with the starter.
It's the same deal whether original or conversion. Direct start with glow plugs and ether starting aid was rated down to -10 def. F. Below that some engines offered manifold air heaters. If no air heater than water jacket heat is required. What engine and how cold a temperature are you referring to? There are limits....It is not advisable to use electric starting in temperatures below the pour point of SAE No. 10W oil without addition of some heat to the cooling system of the engine or dilution of the crankcase oil.
If it was pony start to begin with and you swap it to direct electric start, then you just change out the pre combustion chambers with the type that accept glow plugs by unscrewing them out of the head with a splined tool that you can get from Cat for about $50. Of course you have to add a battery and a heat start switch and wire them up to the glow plugs. Maybe that's what you're asking...
If it has the original 2 piece chambers you need more than the spline drive. There's an insert and a bolt to press the top part out and then you thread the bottom out with the spline tool. 8h chambers for the glow plug conversion. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
Yep, that mostly answers my curiosity, just one more thing, that is do the chambers come out the top with the heads still on the engine? Or do you have to get them out the bottom?
Right out the top. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk 2
greg, where did you get your d7 direct start conversion kit?
Got the starter from Thill Tractor in Eau Claire, Wi. When I did this one I talked to a lot of people first. Many said that just put the starter on and don't bother with the glow plugs and the like. Just give it a small puff of starting fluid just before turning it over. That is what I have been doing since the conversion eight years ago. Does fine this way. Worst part of whole thing was bracket to mount the alternator. Finding a place for the two big 4D batteries was a bit of a challange too. Overall it worked out great.
What did that wind up running you $$$ by the time you got the starter, glow plugs, pre-cups and gen & reg? I'm thinking of converting because the ring gear on the flywheel is buggered significantly from grinding the starting pinion to start the diesel engine. Also how hard was it to find the parts?
Many of the D2, D4, D4-12A Traxcavator had the attachment option for the 24V starting motor.
1957, 955C, 12A-03563, D351 engine. See pony mounting housing and below is the hole and studs for the 24v Electric starter the plate that covered the starter hole was missing that is why the studs are dirty
http://ponymotor.embarqspace.com try this I plan to do my D8H sometime as well
I worked at a sand and gravel plant back in the 70s and they had a 988 A wheel loader with a pony motor all controls where in the cab. I thought this was unusual
@MattR Thanks I just sent them an email to give me a quote. I ask if they had glow-plug precups.
I was working on the AK Pipeline at pump station 3 south of Franklin Bluffs in 77 and there were many one off Frankensteined machines out there. I couldn't tell you if pony motors were an option on the 988's but it is amazing what people can do with a paperclip, a roll of Duct tape and an old piece of iron.
Years back I worked with two 18A D9s that had electric starters without glow plugs, those old critters would start at 35 degrees F without ether after just a few turns. I know nothing about the history of how they were assembled or timed, but it was really amazing how easily they started.
when the 988s were first introduced in 63 or 64 the pony motor was an option
We converted our d7e to direct start after buying it. The last owner ground the ring gear off and that did havoc on the scavenger pump as well. We bought the correct bendix and nose cone and converted a 40mt we had. We did two glow plugs on the back head and it starts really easy. But we're in the tropics.
Only two glow-plugs, hummmm, good idea but in for a penny in for a pound, I think if I go that far I'll go all the way and do all four glow-plugs. It already had a tank heater (percolating type) on it, that and a space heater are a must in Alaska to begin with. Thanks for the input
Ohh I deffinetly recommend all 4. We just ran out of time and the other two we bought were questionable in condition. Machine has been tied up on jobs and It hasn't been high on the repair list. One day though. But with the electric start i run the plugs then crank with the decompression lever on then flip it with my boot. Seems like it's easier on the battery's and starter and let's the engine get up to speed and have some momentum. Usually fires instantly in 60degree westher.
Thanks MattR: I contacted Bryon @ ponymotor.embarqspace.com , and he said he could fix up a 12v starter all I needed was the plate number off the direct starter hole, for the correct nose cone pattern, and S/N for a low, low price of $995.00 plus shipping. I asked about the 24V system, glow-plugs and pre-cups for the D4; he side stepped the question by saying the glow-plugs were 24V and added the 12v would spin the engine over significantly with the aid of the decompression. It seemed like the only help he could provide me was the starter. Now that was for my 57, D4, I'm sure he has other options for other sized equipment. He advertises conversions from pony to 12v and 24V start/charge systems for the D2, D4, D6, D7 and D8.
Check "Caterpillar Conversion Starter" on ebay.
Thanks. I will do that, I have been looking on Craigslist everywhere I can think of
Price is better at $650 to $750 for 24v starter, now looking for glow-plugs pre-cups and 24v generator. Might have a line on a flywheel and ring gear locally - locally is a relative term Fairbanks is 365mi from here. round trip 12 hrs. and this time of year -20*F is warm in Fairbanks
You will need 1S1970 (one piece) chambers 2H3088 o-ring chamber seals 6F8061 injection line retainer nuts (splined type) to clear glow plugs (requires special splined socket) 3H2033 glow plugs (24v only) Also will require shim pack (various size chamber seat washers) to index glow plug location. Splined socket is a 8S2243 Chamber removal/installation tool is a 5F8353 Try Regal for best prices
Holey Cow!!! Old Magnet you are the guru. Thanks O' man 24v direct start with all the amenities AND a 6v electric start pony system - I'd have more starters, batteries, cables and generators than Carter's got pills. If I'd do that I'd need to keep the two different voltage systems apart. The son of a gun already weighs 18,000lbs n'some so what if it has an extra 400lbs of starters n stuff, I doubt it will notice at all. Hahhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa : gambit of emotions. Chamber removal/installation tool is a 5F8353 eBay Price: US $5.50 Shipping: $35.26 Standard Shipping OMG Item location: Land O' Lakes, Florida, United States
Not at all unusual. The pony's pretty much all went to in seat controls by the time there was an option of pony or direct electric start. I believe it was an effort to avoid deaths by machines starting and running over the operator on the track starting the main when warm after lunch. Seems putting it in neutral took to long when it was grub time to some. Read about this in a old safety brochure.
Not sure of what year but pony options extended into the 1960s. They remained popular in the cold and rural climates.
Does anyone with electric start conversion spin the engine with the compression released to build up oil pressure before adding compression. Been told it is most important if they have sat for a few weeks or more. This has been highly touted as one of the reasons the old engines are still going after 80 years and more. Just curious.
If that's a concern opt for the pre-lube starter.
Doesn't USPS Flat Rate Shipping apply there?
Hi OM. I am not familiar with the pre-lube starter. Could you please explain how they work?
I'm curious also
Couple of versions out there. Either a built in gear pump on the back end of the starter switched so that you can run the starter/pump without engaging the drive until you build oil pressure or separate motor driven pump to build pressure then engage starter. Here's one on the back end of a 42MT https://www.ebay.com/i/372728296428?chn=ps&norover=1&
Interesting. I had never seen one before. Always neat to learn. Is there any new models of engines that use a pre-lube system as standard operating procedure that you are aware of. My 1971 KW with a 335 Cummins has a metal tag on the dash that says to "keep engine compression released on cranking until oil pressure shows on gauge". Not sure if it is original.
That seems like just crank the engine with compression released to build oil pressure, not a pre-lube arrangement. I don't know of a list of units that come with pre-lube starters. They more than likely would be by request, more likely on larger engines and common on emergency stand-bye generator sets.
It for sure is not a pre-lube. I just thought it interesting that it has the reminder on the dash. Someone thought it was important a number of years ago to pre-lube on starting.
I have the best of both worlds on my 22B . It has a D318 with pony start and a 24 volt electric starter. Just no glow plugs. Ill start it cold with the pony ,once its warm i can use the 24v anytime i shut down or god forbid i stall it( nothing like stalling the pony start D2 i used to have while pushing a burn pile) It works well for me , i can start up ok anytime in the summer with the 24V.