I`m being tested next tuesday for my certificates of competency for front end loader and excavator. Jeeeeeeeez, I hope I pass. It`s all changed here now, it used to be a 10 question multiple choice test, then a quick operate and you were done. Now, it`s 120 questions. 8 pages of mathematical formulas on how ascertain whether a wire sling has had it, and 4 sentences on loading trucks. It`s tough to find the time to study doing 60 - 70 hour weeks. Most of the theory stuff I`ve never used, and as a mug sand miner, never will. But... It`s whats required so be it. It`s also costing me $850 for the testing all up. with our machines...
Come here to Pennsylvania. All you need to know is how to put the key in the switch... It raises an interesting question though. Should we be required to pass some sort of competency test?
Jeepers....I did mine in QLD as a matter o fact...musta been..94 or 95...can't really remember. It would be good if they got it National and aligned everthing. We all had to get new blue cards awhile back...what a joke....an hour on the puter doing multiple guess and pay $105 and its done. A basic Loader, Excavator and skid steer course here runs $4,000.00 plus for the certificate.......but asking around it seems few have them...even on the mines...you can drive a 50 tonne loader without a ticket but you can't drive a forklift unless you've been lobotomised for 3 days. OHSWA have now got in the act with new "licenses" for hazardous activities...so you have to change over your old crane ticket to the new "license"....which brings many people grumbling about "another way to rip us off".
Squizzy, if I had of got in before the changes, about 6 months ago, it would have been a fraction of the price and 30 mins tops. Now, a $50 enrolment fee has to be paid, and then about 400 per machine tested. After I get tested, the only real change will be to my bank balance, pass or fail the guy will drive away and I`ll get back on the loader or excavator and go back to work, basically. But after all the years I`ve put in, I`d just like a ticket... No other real reason.
Well good luck with it. Hope you do well.
LOL, Same here in NC although some could use a little training.
What would it do except generate revenue for the state? Shhh.. don't say that too loud my Governor/Comptroller may be listening....:Banghead
Mass requires a "hoisting License." Costs $75.00 and its all multiple choice. Common sense test. A machine that meets any 3 of these requirements requires you to have a lic. 1 500LB lift capacity or more 2 10ft lift height or more 3 1/4 yard bucket or bigger Personally I feel you should demonstrate you can handle the machine safely and properly. Any one can pass a test but can they "operate" is the question.
I have a book to learn, and something like 120 questions. It`s mainly to do with wire ropes, slings and chains and mathematical formulas for ascertaining what you can and can`t lift with them. Formulas for guaging whether a sling has too many broken wires, um... Lifting capacity vesrus radius of the boom of an excavator. I mine sand, we have like 2 or 3 chains we lift 200 litre drums of the boss` Nissan Patrol. I have not, and never will lay pipes, dig trenchs etc I`m a mug sand miner. The theory exam for the excavator is 1.5 hours, the loader is 1 hour. Then maybe 30 mins practical on each machine. Up till a few months ago it was 10 multi choice Q`s, pick something up and put it down, ya done, old son... I`m scared I`ll fork out 800 bucks and fail the theory.
california has no such rules neither. Although, many companies do give you a "compentency" exam during the hiring process. Even though most of the questions are common sense questions, it still weeds out a lot of knuckleheads. And then a field test which ranges in difficulty depending on the foreman. Mostly they'll have you dig a trench x many feet long, x many feet deep, straddle it and then backfill it. Cranes are a different story. Most of the larger companies are requiring you to have at least a class B license, and be ncco certified.
Over here in Norway u got to be sertified to drive anything, with an engine bigger than 25kW and lifting more than 1000pounds. 32 hours of safety theory, 8 hours driving with a sertified instructor and 32 hours driving under supervision. Then u get a license for dirtmowing equipment. The driving must be done for each type of equipment.(ADT, wheelloader, dozer, grader, exc, backhoe and others are the classes) And u got to be sertified with a quality system to be allowed to do this type of edjucation. Then your firm got to give u some education on the spesific type of machinery that u operate. They must document that u got the proper training on the spesific machine u operate. This can be 10 min. or 40 hours, firm desides as long as no accidents dosen't happend.... Craning is another story, more hours and training....
Let the pigeons loose! Me pass!!! Yay! The 2.5 hours of theory test wasn`t easy, the 3 minutes operating part was a snap.. Flies and bugs were a bit bad, maybe the guy wanted to get the hell outa there, either way I have a certificate of competency for fornt end loader, and one for excavator and a $850 hole in my wallet.
"Competency" ? Hello Digger, At least I know how to spell it ! LOL Why of course, can you imagine the Military, sending untrained troops to the field, not knowing how to fire a rifle, throw grenades, fire machine guns, fly jets, helicopters ???? Weapons of warfare ! Absurd ! The cost of modern machinery is rising way above the simple stuff of yesterday ! Much more complicated to boot ! So it has to produce more than the older stuff ! Classroom time and OJT, (on the job training) or hands on, is required today ! The idea of allowing unfamiliar or untrained people to put peoples lives,equipment, material ,productivity, in jeopardy, is ?????? No competent Supervision would allow it !
Congrats on your accomplishment BeaudesertSand! :drinkup
So are you advocating mandatory "Certificates of Competency"? Who would issue them? The Fed's? Your state govt.? To what standard? Is there a widespread problem with these that I'm not aware of? I think that the equipment investment costs along with liability concerns makes this issue self policing. The military training reference is apples and oranges. Teaching someone to fire a rifle is not the same as training them to be part of an effective infantry squad. Just as certifying someone in excavator operation doesn't automatically make them a safe member of a trenching/pipe laying team. I still think that they are nothing more than revenue generation for the certifying agency as Beaudesertsand has found out first hand. Congrats on passing BTW. :drinkup PS - if you're gonna pick on digger's spelling, I'll have to point out that you have extra spaces before every punctuation mark...
Whatever are you referring to? (It's good to be able to edit posts, long after the time limit has expired for you mere mortals.) (And you won't catch me making too many spelling errors. :cool2 ) But to get back to the question... I wonder whether there's any documented difference in safety between jurisdictions that require competency testing, and those that don't? It seems to me that that would answer the question of whether they're important or not.
I received my certification to run heavy equipment by going to school in florida. We had been told that a lot of companies are going to start making there operator's get certified due to the insurance. Not sure if it will ever go nationwide, but I've seen where companies in different states are asking for "certified" operators. I have told my boss we should start giving I.Q. test instead of taking peope who apply, which they say they have years of experience.
Exactly Orchard! Just what we need - more layers of gov't Bureaucrap! ointhead It does nothing to solve the problem, just create revenue and another gov't position. I agree that owners of expensive heavy equipment have it in there best interest to make sure the operators are fully capable of operating their machine in a safe and productive manner. I do not want my operators to be unsafe, abuse a machine or not make production goals. We implement training, observation of work habits and a probationary period on all new hires. So make it mandantory that operators take a course for a license for say $400 per machine. I have 8 different kinds of equipment in my fleet. So do the math, that would be $3200 per operator, times 10 operators equalling $32k total for "certification". The kicker is we would still have to go through our training and probationary period - to see if they could actually operate the machine safely and productively (which we are doing already).
Mostly for me it`s for employment, even though I have a job. One thrusts out ones chest and exclaims: " I am a Plant Operator " Next question will be: " do you have tickets? " If the answer is " sadly, no... " Don`t let the door smack you on the butt on the way out... Mainly though, its the liability angle, if someone gets hurt, or hey, a hose blows and I drop the bucket on some poor hapless shcmucks` truck, insurance is less of a hurdle if the answer to " did the operator have a ticket?? " is Yes.. I will admit that for me personally, and I have had plenty of jobs on machinery with out a ticket, was just in recognition of the years I`ve put in on these things. Purely a personal acheivement. I AM! a Plant operator now. I have tickets. Back me up, Australian Members.
BeaudesertSand don't get me wrong- I am not knocking your achievement. Congrats!:drinkup You gotta do what the man says you gotta do and that was what I was talking about. I just don't think the gov't should be in every aspect of our lives and businesses. We are more than capable of policing ourselves when it comes to heavy equipment training and safety - be it employers, unions or schools (of course not all and I know there are horror stories out there). Sorry for the hijack into the philosophical realm.
In my county, they are currently trying to pass a "Contractor's Licensing" program. Any home improvement contractor will need to be licensed through the county in order to do business here. Their claim is this will protect the consumer against fraudulent contractors or poor work. The trouble is there is no testing proposed for this license, you simply fill out the application, write them a check and float a bond. It's all about the money, and they want of much of it as they can grab!
One reason that I think they should have some set of goverment mandates is because any joe schmo can jump in a piece of equipment, bang around and get paid for it. If you look at the plumbing and electrical trades, each has a rather strict set of rules and guidelines to say who and who can't operate a business. It really tends to weed out all the riffraff, and because of this you dont have people undercutting each other left and right. This is a major concern in excavating, and it is readily killing the business, as it is flooding the market place with "compotent" excavators who time and time again drive the price of services into the ground (no pun intended). If there were guidelines and more rules to what company can do what work and which operator they need to use with X hours, it would bolster not only service prices, but it would also as well boost our own wages. Imagine working for a private company and doing quite well for yourself!!! I understand everyone's hesitance due to the beaurocratic BS and undeniably higher costs of going to work everyday, and thats somethign that you probobly wont be able to get around. But if dealing with this means that I dont have to worry about Hugo Chavez jumping into my seat for $5 less an hour, I'll take my chances.
Any rule is only as good as its enforcement, and that's where these things fall short. My take is the consumer should also be fined for hiring an unlicensed contractor if that's what is going to be required, but that will never happen. Too many votes there.
I'll join here with the real reason for ticketed operators. Have you ever heard of the insurance industry? There's more shiny asses sitting in offices than grease soaked hands firing up thoroughly checked machines on cold mornings. Governments of various kinds needed protection from claims and at the same time saw the income potential of exams. Imagine if a machine you were on got loose and killed someone through a busted hose or failed electrics (It's happened before). I think most laws would state, No ticket = no insurance. That being said, the certified operators ticket protects us from losing our house/property. At the same time it allows the contractor to cover his butt..........Ray
We have that here in MD. Any home improvement, including landscaping, must be done by someone holding a MHIC license. When I took the test is was entirely about how to write a contract and that the customer has 3 days to rescind etc. Not a single bit about whether or not you knew how to do quality work. Oh and of course the fees every 2 years to the state to keep your license. I have to disagree with you on this. Our plumbers and electricians have to be licensed, and they are as cut throat as anybody around. Most will flat out ask "what price did XYZ give you? I'll do it for $100 less!". As for weeding out the riff raff, here's an example: My sister is doing a house addition. Among other crappy work, her licensed plumber has the trap for the second floor shower drain dropping about 3" below the 1st floor living room ceiling! The inspector asked if they did the plumbing themselves... just before failing it. That is exactly right. We have absolutely no enforcement of our MHIC law and the MHIC will admit it (I've asked). It's only about revenue at this point. I spoke to my state senator about making it illegal to hire an unlicensed contractor and he said he'll "look into it". I'm not holding my breath. Sounds good Ray, I envy you guys on that, but over here I don't think it would matter. Our tort system may as well be a lottery. If somebody gets hurt, it doesn't matter who's fault it is, or what cert./license they have, whoever has deep pockets is gonna pay.
Not to be negative, but with the crews i work with having certs from a program will get you about as far as a haul truck. In fact i think we have turned down more applicants with certs than i can count. I my self started picking paper at a land fill. From there to a articulated truck, to a rigid frame, then to a 345. Now at 22 im running a 5130 30 hours a week and an 1100 ex hitatchi 30. So there are definately ways around the whole old man machine thing, but hoping to start out on an excavator is a little to ambitious, but good lucky from another young gun.:usa
Queensland 'Tickets'. Hi, Folks. As I undertsand it, the state of Queensland, where Beaudesertsand, Ray Welsh and I live, has for a very long time been far more 'ticket-crazy' than most of the other states in DownUnder. You almost needed a ticket to use an angle grinder or a lawn mover (You ARE supposed to have a ticket for a chain saw.). For quite a while, most of the other states only had tickets for any machine that was DESIGNED to lift a load to a height of more than 4 feet (1.2 metres). Graders, scrapers, dozers rollers, etc., were exempt everywhere except Queensland. That has changed now and is changing further with far tougher OHS laws and requirements nation-wide. H**l, here in Queensland, ANY operator is now REQUIRED by law to PERFORM his daily checks on his machine AND fill out a form to say that he has done those checks. I have been told that the penalty for an operator for not having that form filled out if an inspector asks for it is $1,700. Is that a safety issue or a revenue raiser? Nobody has yet explained to me how filling out that form is going to make me a safer operator. It's just pure CYA BS so that insurance companies and accident investigators can say either it was done and show the paper work to prove it or say that it wasn't done if there is no paperwork, whether it was done or not. Squizzy, there has been a national 'ticketing' system now for about 7 or 8 years that I know of. I'm running on New South Wales issued National tickets because the Qld Workplace Health and Safety senior inspector refused to believe that my original NSW loader ticket covered skid-steer, track and wheeled loaders and wouldn't give me a ticket that would cover me for a track loader until I sat the test here in Qld. $350.00 back in 2002. Guess where he can go. I asked the NSW people if they would issue me a replacement National ticket for the lot and they did. $32.00. I even have a national UNLIMITED mobile crane ticket just like my original NSW crane ticket when QLD would only give me up to 80 tons capacity. Figure that one out. Beaudesertsand, Congrats and don't lose it. Here are some STUPID aspects of the whole issue: 1. A dozer ticket here in QLD used to make you legal to run a sideboom pipelayer. How does that work????????????????????????????????? (I don't know if that still applies under the new rules.) 2. There used to be a note on the reverse of the QLD tickets to the effect that this ticket did not imply competency on all makes and models of that particular type of machine. What's the point of it then????????????????????? (Again, I don't know if this still is the case.) Wanna bet about whether the next trick will be RE-testing every few years???