Everyone has an opinion about how to do this. I just do what works for me. I prefer the moldboard in the "bank" position, starting with the front of the moldboard down. I remove all of the bolts except one toward the center of each cutting edge. Easier to get the socket on the nuts. Catch the bolts with the free hand. I usually just throw the nuts/bolts on the ground in a pile. But a cardboard box works or a metal pan.
After dropping the cutters I rotate the moldboard face up. This gives me a platform to lay the cutter on and get one bolt inserted with a nut hand tightened. In this particular case I was swapping to carbide rotating tip cutters which consist of two 3ft pieces and two 4ft pieces totaling 14ft.
In this case I am using the Sandvik cutters that we've had for 25 years. They are drilled to use 5/8" bolts. The CAT machine is drilled for 3/4" bolts. What to do....... I contacted Equipment Blades in South Dakota for a solution. They had bushings that allow me to use 5/8" bolts with the bushing inserted in the 3/4" moldboard holes. Adds a few pieces to the puzzle but works awesome. I install with the moldboard face up and install all of the bolts/nuts hand tight. Then I roll the moldboard face down and tighten the nuts. Easy peasy.
Same, but I just do it all face up. I can still use the gun on the nuts from the bottom. Now if we were going to square up the edge with the torch, it would also be face up.
Do you put anything on your bits? I have a small spray bottle with fuel in it. At the end of the day, I give them a shot from the back side. Keeps them from rusting. Especially if it will be sitting for a while.
I do not. When we first got them I did. Still couldn't keep them all free and spinning. I use these an average of 50hrs a year. Most of them don't spin.
That's how I used to do it too. Then got lazy and started taking them off nuts up. Easier to get on the nuts. Easier to just let the cutters fall to the ground. These weigh 130 pounds each. Last set I bought cost $240 (US Dollar) each. I rotate mine frequently. This set was ready for rotation. I wear them as evenly as I can until they get down almost to the moldboard then discard them. All four of my neighboring Townships do not rotate. They just run them until they are almost to the moldboard on one end, then discard. I can get 500hrs out of a pair fairly easy. Rotate them 8-10 times. Everyone's results will vary.
Me too. If I'm flipping them, I leave a couple bolts loose in the second edge, shove the first one up onto the moldboard and over to the other end and then slide the second one the other way to it's new home. If I'm replacing, I use the forklift and put the forks under the moldboard and slide a new one off into place. Put a couple bolts in, move over and repeat. Always interesting seeing how everyone does things.
I never change them alone. If it's at the shop, there is a forklift, and lots of bodies. If on the job, no forklift, but a few bodies. They never rotate mine. If they get bad, they just square them up with the torch. People say it ruins them, but I have never broken one. I do find that they wear faster once they have been cut, but most times they are cut for fine grading, so you are stop and go grading, so they do the job. Since we got the stingers, that is what I use for fine grading, and they are always true. Pull the string, check the grade, cut or fill or good. Repeat that 672 times and your done 4.2 Kilometers of road. And that's only if you have every station on grade, and don't have to check more than once.
Those carbides are pretty much a no-go around here. A lot of our gravel has softer rock in it, and they end up grinding it up.
I do similar if I'm rotating. Let one fall to the ground. Slide the second one to new position. Then pick up one from the ground. I don't have a forklift to help. If I did I'd definitely use it as you do. As I get older I feel the weight of the new cutter more.....
I never have help..... I also never do fine grading, just always grading gravel roads. I tried torching a pair that I'd ran a bit too long. Made me more determined not to run them too long before rotating. I didn't notice any worse wear after cutting but can't confirm that.
Our gravel is crushed limestone. I don't notice too much grinding but I'm sure there's some. The benefit that I like most is shaping the roadbed. My gravel base is very thin. My roads usually have one pair of tracks right down the center. So I get ridges just outside each track. The carbides work great to fix that problem. And they bring my limited supply of rock back to the surface. I will say the greatest benefit of the carbides is if we get an ice storm.
Nice write up and pictures. Thanks
Thank you. Pictures are worth a thousand words aren't they.
Cutting the edges with a torch shouldn't be enough heat to weaken them unless they get red hot and stay that hot. Should only get that hot at the very beginning of the cut. Get a good clean tip the right size and a straight edge and cut them as fast as the tip allows. A little preheat prior to cutting to get any moisture out would help make for a faster/better cutting. Plasma torch would create less heat but no reason not to trim them to get more life.
I wanted to cut with my Plasma Cutter but it isn't big enough. I didn't worry about the torch shortening the life of the cutters from heat issues. I used a straight edge and a sharp torch. I think the work that Cuttin Edge does which requires a very straight edge justifies torching them to extend life. In my case of road maintenance I can get the full life out of an edge by timely rotation. In my world the strip of edge laying on the ground after straight cutting with a torch is wasted. In the pics above those edges have a 1/2" wear. That's the max I prefer. I'd rather have switched them at 3/8". When I put them back on reversed that difference will correct itself quickly. I do 3 pass grading on my roads. A trick I use. 50% of the time I grade my roads using the left end of the blade as the "toe". This moves that critical wear from end to end on the cutters. I still have more wear in the middle of course. But it does extend my run before I need to rotate and/or replace. On our extremely limited budget that's critical. The cost of a set of cutters would also buy a 17 Ton load of gravel.
Anything around here that has quarry gravel on it, is hard on edges. Once it gets wet and the traffic beats it to death, it's impossible to cut. You get that distinctive hiss off the back of the edge. The stinger bits are the answer for that.
Probably, but one thing you need to realize is that when my blades get cut, it's a mechanic that was pulled away from another job, probably at the shop, and they will want them back to the shop asap. All they are going to do is yank the torches out of the back of the service truck, and zip them off as fast as they can, and get back to the shop before someone starts calling for them. Now maybe at the shop, where the actual welders are, their gear will be in better shape, and they will probably take the time to do it right. But I do find that once they have been cut they wear faster. I might be a couple weeks getting to the end of the taper. Once cut, I can almost finish the rest off in 2 or 3 weeks of constant grading in hard material.
I wonder if the heat treatment is less effective after the edges are cut?? Generally cutting an edge with a torch gives longer life because the cut edge is a higher hardness than the base metal.
From a maintenance standpoint of the grader, yes. From the guys buying the gravel, no.
Yep. I've even saw sparks off the back edge of the cutters. We have flint rock in our crushed limestone.
That's my "assumption".
I frequently get comments after running the carbide tipped blades. And they are always positive. In my case our sealed surface of roadbed is only 1.5-2" thick. The stingers seem to bring the gravel back to the surface. I cannot quantify the loss because of crushing the gravel. It appears I have more gravel damage running smooth cutters on hard roadbeds. Very common to see gravel that has been sheared in half.
Strait blades turn it to a powder. and you can't cut to the bottom of the potholes unless you can wet it. But then it's a fine line between just right and mud. I find the stingers cut through and at least give you enough to work with. No limestone here, everything is shale rock, round rock gravel, or quarry, and maybe a clay that is mud when wet, or baking powder and rocks when dry.
I'm always interested to hear the differences that we face as operators. I never say anyone should do what I do. Everyone's situation is different. I really enjoy hearing the differences.
I change all my edges with the moldboard rolled up so I have a work bench I have the sharq system on two graders I operate now that they have carbide edges so I don’t have to rotate edges throughout the day I love the sharq system 4 wedges per 4foot edge I can swap to different style edge in 15 to 20 min and I only need a hammer.
That looks like a slick system but I could see those wedges getting bent up by big rocks in the work that I do. How often do you have to replace them and the thingies (pins?) they retain? Do you notice a difference in how the material rolls off the moldboard?
I will not forget the first time I watched our county blade man roll the blade out the side for a roadside cutting edge change....wth? Had no idea it would do that. Ed
I average around 400 to 500 hours before I have to replace the wedges and pins of course the varies on how abrasive of material your in and I have sticky gravel here and the wedges do catch a little material but nothing that affects how material rolls off the blade.
It was from watching Mark's YouTube videos that I learned of Equipment Blades Company. I'm always intrigued by Mark's videos and comments in regards to lifespan of cutting edges. His roadbeds are soooooo different from mine. He has a LOT more gravel to work with than I do. Not sure I've ever saw him bring up dirt when doing maintenance grading. By rotating my smooth cutters I am able to get 400-500 hrs of use from them. At the beginning of this thread you can see how much wear I accumulated in 150hrs of use. I think there is a sizeable difference in quality of cutting edges. Also a difference in thickness and width. I use 3/4" thick by 8" wide edges. In my World I don't think I can financially justify running carbide systems all the time. Smooth cutters are $500 per set. Not sure what something like Mark's Sharq system costs but I'd guess $2500? Again, always interesting to see everyone's differences.
I think you’d be greatly surprised on what a set of double carbides would do for you I know the initial price is up there but you also have to factor in your time you spend rotating your regular steel edges if you have carbide you’d only need to rotate once a year also got to look at long term life if I can get 2 to 3 years on mine you should be able to get 5 or more and you will always have a straight edge to work with you will see your roads greatly improve no more quarter crown or having to rotate edges because of center wear I know we all aren’t getting any younger so if one can make life easier one should lol just my input.
Do you know how carbide handles bigger rock? Most of the roads I grade are built with base rock that is shot pit run like 8 or 12" minus but could have bigger chunks in it as well. Then it's topped with crushed rock but often it's not very thick. You'll be cutting along nicely and suddenly the machine will rise up and stop when you roll up a big one or just bring you to a sudden stop with a bang. I know carbide is brittle and it doesn't seem like it would like the shock point load.
Unfortunately they don’t like large rocks like you are describing I have rocks that are in my roads and over time as my carbides wear they will chip in spots from the rocks but generally it’s after a year of use so they work for me as in your conditions I wouldn’t recommend them.
I think you are probably right. And for some reason those edges are quite a bit heavier than they used to be.
I've got four places on my roads where limestone rock ledges protrude out of the roadbed on steep hills. Over the years I've lost approximately ten carbide tips off the rotating stem. It's always been when hitting one of those ledges not realizing it's about to be exposed. I think chances of success can be improved somewhat by reduction in speed. I run 6.5mph average with smooth edges. I run 4.5mph with the rotating carbides. Seems running faster wears the tips more and increases the chances of breaking one.
Speed is a killer when it comes to busting edges and wearing them fast I actually had my main township rent a tractor backhoe for a week and I went around and dug out all the real bad rocks I had that made a ton of difference.
Several years ago I did that to one of my rock ledge spots. Maybe 15 years ago. At the edges of the roadbed where I didn't take out as much the ledge is beginning to show up again.