thanking all in advance for their help!! i bought a used 580K a couple years ago. great machine that has been working well (even started well all winter, no problem), until.... this is a bit hard to describe... previous owner had wiring problem that prevented batteries charging while operating machine. he was advised to abandon existing white wire that plugs into alternator, and install a new wire from alternator plug in directly to starter (screw at bottom of starter), and to put a diode in line to prevent voltage going from alternator to starter once machine is running which he said would fry the starter. the machine has worked fine until recently when that diode shorted, so batteries stopped charging when operating machine. i replaced the diode with new, but it didn't work. i think the starter got fried? so, if i install a new starter i don't want to fry it again!! i'd prefer to correct original wiring problem, and get rid of the diode and modified wiring repair. any ideas on this... does this make any sense? hoe is sitting in middle of nowhere (i'm not kidding) so i need to repair myself or pay large to bring out repair guy which as last resort may be needed, but i'm hoping this problem may not be too hard to troubleshoot by someone who knows machine.
I don't know how or why he used a diode,but can tell you I wired mine. On the back of the alternator, there is a large post and a plug w/2wires. The post goes over directly to the battery connection on the starter, or to the positive post on the battery (they are electrically the same point). I installed a 40 amp fuse and fuse holder in that line. The left wire, looking at the back of the alternator, also goes to that post. The wire on the right goes to alt lite or voltmeter on dash. The alternator is self exciting, and once the engine comes up to speed, it should charge the battery. What do you mean the starter is fried? Won't it crank the engine? If you're worried about the diode hookup, unhook that wire and see if it will crank. If you install the diode in reverse polarity, you'll short the battery directly to ground. If you have any questions, find someone in your area that reblds alternators, take your to him to have it checked and ask him how to wire it. Good Luck!!
thanks theoldman, sorry if this is a bit of a rambler question, but it's driving me nuts trying to understand what's going on, and my machine is so isolated, and now i can't start it, ugh! my 580K is early 1990s so maybe the alternator has a slightly different configuration than yours? the back of my alternator has three wires coming out: 1. one large gague wire held by a nut to the positive post which i don't think is related to this problem (when running i read about 14.5 volts here). 2. immediately to the left of the positive post is a small post with a small gague wire held with a nut (this also read about 14.5 volts when running), and 3. directly below the positive post, near the bottom of the alternator, is a plug-in wire. this is a small gague wire too (it read about 7 volts when running so this may feed the volt meter in the cab?). the two small wires running from alt dissapear into a bundle of sheathed wires original to the machine. what do these leads do? the small wire to the left of the positive post (looking at the back of the alternator) is original and still attached. the other small, plug-in wire originally followed into the bundle with the other small wire, but now hangs loose and has been replaced with this new wire with the diode in-line and runs directly to (spliced and soldered to) an original, small gague wire connected to the underside of the starter held with a small phillips head screw. what is the wire at the bottom of the starter for? it has been explained to me that this wire (and the original presumably?) gives a brief jolt of voltage from the starter to the alternator on start up to get the starter going, and after that it runs on it's own charging the battery as the machine runs. the in-line diode, it was explained to me, stops power going from the alternator to the starter after the machine is running and the alternator operating. the alternator is producing good voltage (14.5+ V). i was told to be careful because if i put the diode in reversed polarity (or if no didoe was installed at all) voltage would flow from alternator to starter which would short it out. this seems to have happened even though i know how to 'read' a diode, and am sure i put it in properly. the machine started normally all winter. i noticed there was a problem when the machine wouldn't start after working with it this spring. the batteries weren't charging. it would start with a boost, and run normally, but the batteries were not charging that's when i noticed this mystery diode was shorted out (it was broken in half). after replacing the diode and with recharged batteries the machine started, and ran normally as it always did, but the starter made a strange noise after the engine started, and the diode sorted out not long after. i turned the engine off, diconnected the diode wire, and now the engine won't turn over, the starter won't even click as it does when batteries are low. that's why i think the starter got shorted (rebuilt starter is $187, ouch!!). what the heck is going on here? the volt meter in the cab showed the battery level as strong when the machine was running after the repair so i thought all was good, but apparantly not?! i don't think the wiring is too complicated for this machine. there are no digital read outs in the cab, all analog, and nothing fancy in cab, basic analog panel. thank you so much for help.
Mine is a C model, so yours is certainly different, but an alternator is an alternator. Need to know what brand alternator it is. I think it could be either a Delco-Remy or a prestolite. You definately need to talk to someone locally that works on alternator/charging systems. I don't know what the strange noise from the starter could have been unless it were trying to run and engage the bendix while it was running. See if you can find a local shop that can bench test your starter, your alternator, and advise you. Do you have a wiring diagram for the machine? Service manual? Parts manual? If not you need them, if you're going to work on the machine yourself. Look for them on Ebay in disc form - pretty cheap. UserFriendly CDs seem to be the best.
You will need to start isolating different items. It could be a cable issue, ignition switch bad or other items including loose wire. I suspect the starter or solenoid is bad or whatever is downstream of the diode you keep burning out. Mine is different so I do not have a wiring diagram. If you can't troubleshoot the circuit you will need to take the battery, alternator, starter, whatever OFF and have them load tested someplace. Does your have an alternator warning light? You should not run a bad battery even if you can boost it off. This can stress and damage an alternator. Start with a good battery and proper connections including the frame ground.
looks like i've got some detective work ahead of me, and that this is going to take longer than i had hoped. oh well. i've ordered a wiring diagram from a supplier for only $25, but it takes three weeks to get so i'm trying to move ahead without it as much as i can for now. i'll take the starter out and run it in for a bench test. no choice here, just have to do it, and then i'll know better now how to proceed. i'm sure the guy in the shop will be able to help troubleshoot. i'll stop runnng the machine until fixed.... don't want to make things worse. good advise bowen, thanks. i suspect the weird new wire with diode was put in because tracing the problem wasn't easy which doesn't bode well if i want wiring to be the way it was originally. helpful advise and guidance, thank you. any new insights are welcome with thanks.
the boom of my hoe drops quickly due to leaking hydraulic fluid. that can't be an easy fix can it?
GM Alternator Conversion ? Is this what your alternator looks like ?
no, if i could figure out how to attach a photo i have one or two i could post to show what this stuff looks like.
The alternator pictured is one I installed on my own tractor. It is a GM alternator and is extremely easy to install and convert your 580B to a one wire charging system. A rebuilt alternator like that costs about $40.00 US at any auto parts store. If you are interested in doing the conversion let me know and I will post the procedure to accomplish it.
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ha! figured it out. top photo shows starter with red wire spliced into original white wire the red wire has the diode in line and runs to the alternator... see bottom picture. bottom photo shows the red wire on the back of the alternator is the new one with the diode in-line. the white wire hanging next to it is the original it replaces. what do those two small gague wires do?
another view
here's the poor old girl sittin in the snow.
You have a seriously mixed up problem here. The wire at the starter that has been piggy backed is the activater wire - that only should get power while cranking the engine. The other end of the red wire - at the alternator is attatched to the tacho feed. Does your tacho work? Basically - get rid of that red wire. It has probably engaged the starter motor to the engine while it was running & toasted it. The small wire on the alternator (next to the heavy one) should be the exciter - live with ign on only. Sort the electrics & start a new thread re your hydraulics when you're ready. I would suggest to take your alternator to be checked out with the starter motor.
alrman, thanks for help from queensland!! i think we're getting somewhere now. a picture is worth a thousand words! for whatever reason i guess the original activator wire was not doing it's job so the red wire was put in to replace it. it obviously isn't working properly because, you're right, i think it's shorted out my starter after the machine was running. the stupid didoe didn't work at all. the activator wire runs from bottom of starter to... where? the back of the alternator to give it a kick on start up? this then shuts off after engine is running so it doesn't burn out starter. if i understand you propely, that red wire spliced to the activator wire should never have been connected to the alternator where it was (that plug in wire near the bottom of the alternator)? no the tachometer doesn't work! if i get rid of that red wire completely, and connect the original wire (hanging beside red wire in photo above) to the back of the alternator, i'm back to dealing with whatever problem lead to putting in that red wire in the first place. there must be a disconnected wire somewhere in the cab behind the instrument panel or under the floor board so the circuit isn't complete which is why the tach doesn't work. does this sound right? if so, and i can find a disconnected wire behind instrument panel or where ever i can test it to see if it's the wire that lead to the tach feed on the back of the alternator then reconnecting that should make the tach work again. this would be good, but does it connect to anything else? you said the small post beside the large one on the back of the alternator is the exciter? it's only live when igintion is on, but not cranking yet, is this right? where does this wire run? what's the difference between the activator and the exciter? i will remove the starter and alternator, and take them in for testing. once i've replaced the alternator and starter, and i know they're working properly i worry about connecting those two small wires on the back of the alternator up again, and trying to start/run machine for fear of causing the same damage again.
The wire at the starter has nothing to do with the alternator. This wire gets power when you hit the start position on the ign switch via a relay which should be located under the fuel filler flap. It SHOULD have no power to it at any other time. If you reconnet the spare wire near the alternator the tacho should work - if everything was normal. This wire is taking power from alt to the tacho. The small wire (field) at alt, with screw terminal basically goes back to the ign switch. The problem you may have is that the plugs in your wiring harness may be corroded & causing open circuits. Follow the main harness back from engine along RH chassis - you will find connectors about midway & also above the RH rear axle - near the floor. Check the condition of the pins if corroded. Sometimes it is easier to run a new wire from ign switch to alternator - not a good idea to take shortcuts like the previous owner......... Re activator & exciter - one wire ACTIVATES the starter motor & the other EXCITES the alternator (field) into action/charging - as said earlier, they are not related & are completely different circuits. :drinkup
so that red wire was a bad repair from the beginning, great! i'll plug the original wire back into the back of the alt to see if the tach works. this should get the hours meter working again too, right? if it doesn't work, i have corrosion or broken wires or whatever. i'll have to start tracing these to see what's going on. if nothing obvious...what then...get drunk, right haha?! i can remove the floor panel in cab where i know some wires run to see if all is good. could the relays be shorted? can you define what the main wiring harness is please, sorry alrman, but i don't want to assume anything here? i don't recall seeing one near the engine, is it visible in the photos i posted? good explaination of the activator and exciter, thanks. i'm sure there's more to know. i've got my work cut out... i'll do some work and let you know what we find. it will take some time, as i have to drive millions of miles to get this stuff done, and with work, family etc.... this won't be quick. any other thoughts, and lessons are much appreciated.
Please keep posted on what you find. Having the same problem on my Super K starting a couple of days ago. Battery and alternator pulled off and tested at napa, battery checked good and 13.5 on alternator. On to plan "B" now. Thanks and good luck.
This is a typical charging system, The wire coming from the Ignition Switch with the Diode is the Exciter Wire. It will in effect, turn the alternator ON. The Diode is used to eliminate backfeed to the rest of the system when the ignition is turned off. If this Diode is shorted, the engine will continue to run because the Alternator will be able to bleed voltage back to the Ignition Circuit. If this Diode is open, the Alternator will not turn ON. The wire on your alternator that is reading 7 volts could possibly be a tach signal from the Stator circuit. Measuring with a Frequency Meter should verify this. 400 Hertz at mid-idle is about normal.
KWM... i'll definately keep all posted about how this turns out. good luck to you too. voodoo... thanks for input. i have a good grasp of electrical theory, but navigating my way around the wiring in my machine is somewhat tedious for me as the learning curve is so steep. i enjoy it, and if time and money were not limitations i'd fiddle happily away until i had traced every wire, and every circuit through the whole machine. my wife would then kill me, and bury me with the backhoe, haha!! on saturday i will trudge out to the hoe, remove the starter, and the alternator (disconnecting the batteries first and bringing them back to the shop to charge up ready to fire up machine when ready). i will also remove the floor panel in the cab to check visible wiring (i know i saw one loose wire, but figured it was deal with by previous ower... duh!) etc... i will also remove the instrument panel to check condition of connections to tach etc... as per alrman's advice i'll look for corrosion in the harness (which i think it the housing with the pins that the plugged ends of wires connect to, sometimes individually like on the back of the alt, or sometimes as a bundle with a multi plug connector). i know i'm using the wrong terms here, sorry to the purists, but i'm an amature not a pro at this. anyone that can post a definition list of terms would be a hero. at least then we will be talking with the same terminology which makes coaching rookies like me easier for veterans like you all out there who are so kindly trying to help. i thank everyone for their generosity of knowledge and time. this is awsome!! on monday i'll take the starter in and swap it for a rebuilt one ($180 can.), i'll get the alternator bench tested to make sure it's okay. i have a small massey tractor, MF50 from the 50s, the thing is bullet-proof (what a machine), anyway a mechanic who once helped me troubleshoot a wiring problem said he'd be willing to hike out to the hoe with me once i got a new starter in, and help make sure i don't short out more parts. that may cost me $500 or so which stings a bit, but lost productivity etc... it's worth it. more to come on the electrical.... and then there's the leaking hydraulics. one thing at a time right alrman!
voodoo... your drawing shows a diode inline. does that mean my hoe has a diode somewhere that may be burned out, and that the previous owner just tried to put a new one in a new location instead of dealing with the original which may be hard to access? does it make sense that it would be hard to access or find a diode? would it not be made accessable for repairs? was this laziness on the part of the previous owner or maybe he didn't know, or whatever? is there somewhere i should look for the original diode? maybe that's the original problem? your drawing is helpful, thanks a lot.
Adolphous: Hopefully someone reading this thread has a service manual for your 580K. It would have the detailed schematic of your wiring harness. With a little luck they can scan the pages of the schematic and post it here . If not you should consider purchasing the service manual. It is money well spent, considering the amount of information it has. Be prepared to spend about $100.00 to $150.00 for a Case original edition.
Love to help, but have you seen the schematics in a Case manual? - they fold out of the manual & are too big to scan on a normal A4 flatbed, sometimes bound into small sections so they can't be opened up & laid flat. Later model machines have a huge sheet about 1 metre square for both the electrics & hydraulics - even harder to copy .......
Not necessarily. I can't say for certain, but I don't think the 580K used a diode in the harness for exciter wire. Depending on the arrangement of a machine, sometimes and experienced mechanic will run across a faulty exciter wire circuit, and instead of spending hours of labor at considerable cost to customer, they will run a wire from ignition circuit with diode to excite alternator as per voodoo's drawing. As long as proper components are used, correct size diode, proper size wire, it's a repair that will give trouble free service. I agree with alrman, take starter and alternator to motor shop, have units tested and repaired as required. And while you're there, ask the motor shop guy "can you tell me what's supposed to connect to each of these terminals so I can verify my machine is hooked up to it properly?"
willie59!! nice to have you on board! thanks for input. FYI...i have ordered the wiring schematics from a case dealer, they're only $25 CND, but take three weeks to get. i started here asking questions to give me a headstart with understanding what i would be facing. the help has been terrific, and has made this whole stress thing kind of fun!! as a result of this forum and discssion i will be well armed when i take the starter and alt into the shop for service to ask a tech there what the alt terminal exactly serve, and how the wiring runs from ignition to starter and alt as relates to the alt charging the batteries. let's recall that this is what the whole problem is.... the machine starts (until i fried the starter), and runs well, the problem is it's not charging the batteries when running, and there's the matter of that stupid diode. i'm a bit of a weird purist when it comes to making modifications to original wiring and other on almost everything i work on. i prefer to correct a problem properly, and back to the way it came out of the factory, but i understand this is not always the most practical approach, and one can lose a lot of time fooling around when it's not necessary. the infamous red wire and diode the previous owner installed in my machine is a point in case (no pun intended).... things are all screwed up now due to some quick and so called easier repair than tracing and doing the job properly the first time. it's for this kind of reason i try and avoid mickey mouse repairs.... they usually don't last, don't work properly, and cost more in the long run than just taking some time to solve a probelm properly, once, the first time around. anyway, tomorrow i will be removing the starter and alternator to take in for swapping and testing. hopefully i'll meet a mechanic there who will be as generous as you all have with his knowledge, and i'll come back next week with an update as to what was said. next week i'll install the new/repaired parts, charge my batteries, and start trying to trace the original problem. my plan, as of now, is to get the new parts in along with charged batteries, plug that original wire into the back of the alt (the one we think supplies the tach) getting rid of that red wire with diode, and then turn the ignition on, and start tracing wires while checking for power with my multimeter tester. i sure won't try to start the machine until i'm satisfied i've got proper circuitry and power where i'm supposed to.
taking the starter out isn't a big deal... right?! i know it's only a couple of bolts, and that i need to disconnect the battery first. i also know there may also be some shims to align the starter properly with the flywheel which i'll take note of and be careful to put back exactly as they come off. the alt is easy. anything i'm missing?
willie59's comment about a mechanic being pricess is true. i completely agree, and the cheapest approach that seems good at first often becomes the most expensive in the end. this is important, and i want all to know i recognize i'm a total rookie at this compared to some of you out there, and i don't trivialize the skill and knowledge of others in their trades. knowledge is gold!! if i could, i would just pay someone to come out and do all of this work for me, but for now, like many, i need to try and save some dough by doing certain stuff myself (i replaced my hydraulic hoses and even a steel hydraulic line for loader by myself recently which was interesting, but it went really well). i also really enjoy working on my machine and learning about it. my machine is somewhat isolated, and now can't be moved since it won't start. paying someone to come out and look at it (i've called around about this), or worse having it hauled to a shop (which i don't think is even possible considering where the machine sits) is going to be quite expensive for me as labour to trace wiring problems is notoriously expensive, and uncertain since so many things could be wrong, and maybe more than one thing at once. my approach is to do what i can myself (even if i do screw the odd thing up), get good advise, and then bring in someone to handle the stuff i can't or shouldn't. this problem with my machine i can mostly handle, but getting it right will eventually require a good mechanic for sure, and i will have someone out eventually. unless i get really lucky, and can be 100% confident that i've found the problem, i won't try to start the engine again. i've spoken to a good mechanic who i can pay for four or five hours of his time at a cost of $300 to $500 to come out and help me make sure we are in fact ready to try a start up. if something goes wrong... he'll be there to hear and see what happens, and make sure nothing gets worse. i feel confident. it's only a matter of time now with the machine down i have to reorganize schedules etc... until we're up and running again, but that's life eh!? update on my chat with mechanic at case dealer next week to follow... stay tuned. thanks again, endless thanks!!
Once you get the starter back on, simply hook the battery cable to it where it belongs, and use a jumper from that terminal on the starter over to the terminal on the solenoid,and the thing will start, without anything else hooked up. Drive it to the house, and work on it there. Save tromping around in the bush. Just make sure it's not in gear, and the fuel is turned on, and you're good to go. Just happended to think, my old C has a manual fuel shut off. You're later model may have a solenoid. I'm sure one of the experts will chime in here and tell you how to get it running to take it home.
one of the small wire's on the alt is for the tach trevor b
People have died doing this! - if you ever do this, be 100% certain the machine is in neutral!
starter and alt pulled. got new starter and bench tested alt. ready to go back in soon. took off console in cab to check wiring generally. back of console has a circuit board that connects circuits though warning bulbs. the circuit board has wear spots due to friction rub on wiring bundles behind cutting some of the copper circuit wiring. the warning lights complete circuits so if a bulb is burnt out then the circuit is dead until bulb is replaced. my bulbs are fine, but need new board. the console costs A LOT, but the board is only $40. i ordered a new one and will install this week. guy who tested alt knows his stuff for sure, and said the plug in on the back of the alt is for the tach. the small post is the exciter. that red 'repair' wire was wrong... completely wrong. i'm going to get rid of it, and plug the original wire back into the alt. with the new console circuit board the tach should work again. there is low risk of damaging anything further once this work is done so as soon as all parts are reinstalled i will try to start engine, and see what happens. maybe all will be fine, but somehow i doubt it. if not then i start testing and tracing wiring to find bad circuitry, then find a solution, and try again. the screw at the bottom of the starter where the bad red wire was spliced into and run to the alt powers the solenoid to drive the starter gear into the flywheel just before the starter cranks the engine. that's all. the electrical guy who tested the alt showed me on his bench with a starter he had, and a battery which he used to activate the solenoid and starter. that red wire with diode had no business being installed where it was... totally wrong. a repair wire should have been run from the ignition to the alt which would have been a better repair, and we may wind up having to do something like that, but we'll see what happens when i start it. i'm really hoping it's the circuit board that was the problem all along?! i'll let all know what happens next week.
i do need a service manual for the 580K. it's a 4x4. trying to get one through the dealer is a hassle i've found, and expensive. i'm going to look on line to see if one is available for a good price. i was going to get just the electrical plans, but the whole service manual seems like not a bad idea. any leads out there? i still am not sure what a harness is? my guess is that it's a cluster of pins mounted on a plate (plastic) that wires plug into in a common area?! am i close? i've located a lot of plug connections above rear axel as alrman suggested, and other places too (behind console). these connections all seem fine, no signs of corrosion or damaged wiring that was obvious, but i've only begun looking. checked fuses they seem fine, at least none are burnt, one is oversized for circuit 30A instead of 15A as back of cover says it should be. i'll switch that out to see what happens.
Harness = wiring loom. Basically, the wiring that is grouped together in the sheath/protective covering, that runs all over the machine, is the harness. The parts book will isolate it into different sections - front / engine / rear / cabin etc. What I suggested, was to follow the wiring from the engine area back towards the dash area. On the 580K that is along the RH chassis rail. Sometimes the wiring harness, due to engine vibration, rubs through the protective sheath/covering & the wires get damaged - causing short or open circuits. This typically happens around the bellhousing area. - Hope this helps
adolphous try ebay arouund 200.00 give or take but wourth every penny trevor b
alrman, thanks, that's a great explanation. i know exactly what you're refering to now. i've seen those 'plugs' as i've been calling them, and have inspected a few already. theoldman, thanks for the contact re parts guy and potential service manual source. don't see that reply here in this thread? how does that work? trevor b, i haven't seen the service manual before so i wasn't sure what to buy, but i'm starting to figure it out now as i search and learn. thanks for your help too. picked up new circuit board for console this week, will install and try to start machine this week!!! post update next week about what happens. thanks all.
adolphous what year is your k and ser # ? . i'll try to find proper manual for you trevor
thanks trevor! i'm not sure of the year, it's a 94 or 95 not sure which. serial no. is JJG0024245 it's a construction king 580K.
adolphous your 580k is a 1990 phase 3. go to ebay enter item#180423401311 service manual $189.00 & item #160759241421 parts catalog $55.00 .if you can afford both they are worth there weight in gold. trevor b
I have a 92 case 580 super k with the exact same issue. When i start the machine no gages will work until i manually excite the alternator by breifly touching or crossing (with a screwdriver) the large positive wire and post with the small exciter post and wire beside it. After touching them with the screwdriver everything works on the gages and the voltmeter on the dash jumps to 14v. Kind of a pain if you want to turn off the machine throughout the day to save on fuel as you need to do this every time you start it. I have thought about installing a self excitting alternator like the one that is on my skidder. The guy at the aternator shop told me that alternators are usually conected to the oil pressure sending unit or switch to excite the alternator
trevor b, thank for the help man, really good of you! i'll definately check it out. how did you figure out the year and phase? what does phase mean anyway, is that like an issue? so mine is a third issue or phase? the repair work i did.......went like this..... i put the new starter in, and the old alt which bench tested as fine. i got rid of that stupid red 'repair' wire and connected the original plug back into the alt (which definately feeds tach in cab). i traced all wiring as much as was possible and reasonable, and saw nothing unusual or concerning. all connections were clean, sheathing was all in good condition, no cut or frayed wires. it all looks in good shape, expect for what i couldn't easily see which i assume is in similar condition. i put the new printed circuit board in on the back of the console (the old one was frayed and very worn due to friction on wiring bundles behind), checked each bulb to make sure it was still good as the bulbs complete circuitry which may stop certain functions from working depending on which bulb goes out, reconnected the plugs to the back of the console, and braced myself as i plucked up the guts to turn it over. well, it started up better than it ever has, and i swear it runs better now too which may be due to proper charging and power supply. the tach works now as does the hour meter. it seems to be charging well now, the voltage meter in cab shows a better level when running and just reading battery level when not running than it ever has. great!! everything else seems great, but.... there is an alarm mounted behind the console which i reconnected (it had a connecing wire that was broken), it squeaks everytime the key is turned, and stops when the machine is running...usually. i was using the hoe, and the thing started screaming at me and wouldn't stop. it's really annoying which is good i suppose as it is an alarm, but what for? why's it yelling at me? i had finished working for the day anyway so i left it. the next day i went to see if the machine would start, and it sure did!! beautiful! i think that problem is solved. the console alarm sounded with one turn of the key, but stopped nicely once it was running. i'm not sure how it will behave one day to next so i need to figure out now what it's for etc.... what is that alarm for???? does anyone know? do i need it. the other, maybe bigger problem, is the engine oil temp gauge immediately cranked all the way to the top (way beyond the upper reading of the gauge), and won't come down. not sure what this is about? i honestly can't recall if the needle of this guage ever moved before or where it sat 'normally' before. the machine has never run hot (as far as i know), and the oil level is fine. the engine oil trouble light doesn't come on ever. what could be wrong now? i don't think this is a big deal though, and my guess, based on the way the needle is acting there is some kind of short somewhere that is making the needle drive all the way to the top like that. it's getting too much current to it all the time when the machine is running? intuitively that's my guess, but i'm not sure. another puzzle. any ideas.
redneck1... like the handle. sounds to me like maybe you need a new ignition? i'm no expert, but that would be my guess based on what i've figured out in the past few weeks with the good help of people on this forum. if your guages work after start up you don't have the problem i had with the circuit board, but for sure those bulbs that screw into the back of the console complete circutry. check your bulbs, and the ignition sounds like your problem is there to me. my machine has an analoge console with none of the digital, fancy programming features. it's the basic, simple stuff, which is good for me otherwise i'd never be able to fix it. not sure what you've got. starting and running your machine like you are can lead to other problems and expense after a while. bad circuitry won't stop the machine from running, but it can damage other parts. if wire goes to oil pressure and then to exciter to start as your alt guy said then maybe that's a clue as to why my oil guage is acting screwy? be careful starting your machine like you are.... one day of forgetfulness with that thing left in gear..... you could be a dead man! it's just not worth it. safety first, always safety first!! good luck.
Temp gauge is transmission temperature. The sender unit is located on the RHS of the convertor/bellhousing, from memory it was fitted on a Tpiece fitting for the cooler hoses, you will need to get under the machine to see it. ( the parts book is a bit vague with location & I can't recall 100%) Try disconnecting the wire & see if the gauge responds, if it does not there may be a short to earth somewhere. The alarm is working as it should - it is meant to get your attention if a warning light comes on while operating Or if you put the machine in gear with park brake on.
This is the oil temp sensor on a 580SE so yours may not look the same. In the large photo my wire was off at the time. (Attached in the closeup) If you short the wire to ground the guage goes all the way to the top. (hot) With the wire off the guage goes all the way to the bottom.(cold)
hey no prblem we all have to work togeather . google coleman equipment on left side enter service tips & tech tell's you how to figure year .good sight to find prices trevor
should i be be okay operating the machine with the oil temp guage possibly shorted out somewhere or with a bad sender unit?
:my2c NO... With all your notes of wires took off, repairs etc you need to at least confirm that this is the problem causing the alarm. This single connection is easy to get to and check. You do have to get underneath, but then it's one small nut to take off and remove the wire. If the alarm stops and the guage goes to the bottom, THEN you can decide about operating the engine. But then you can clean the temp sender and check resistance from the connection post to ground to see if this is shorted. If you have something like 5000 ohms of resistance the sensor is probably good. (Mine reads 6800 ohms when cold) You may be a different sensor, but as it heats up the resistance goes down. Does the alarm sound with just the key on, or only after the engine is running? I would just want to know it a fauty sensor and not something else like oil pressure. With you wiring harness problems I bet your temp sender is Ok but the wire is shorted in the harness. If so the next step would be to locate the other end and remove it also, then check the actual wire with both ends disconnected. I love alarms. They are there to protect you or the machine. If something is broke fix it. Never disable or ignore an alarm.
the alarm sounds when the key is turned on (not so far as to start machine). once running the alarm goes off... except one time when it was went off when using the hoe, and wouldn't go off again. i was done for the day anyway so i left the machine overnight and the next day alarm was normal again (on at start, off when running). i didn't use it a lot that day though, i was mostly checking to see if the batteries were still charged, that it started normally after repairs, and if that alarm was still yellin' at me. everything seemed really normal and good. pretty happy about that. i haven't run it a lot since the starter repair etc... so not sure how the alarm behaves on a regular basis. also, i wasn't driving the machine when the alarm went off i was using the hoe. that transmission oil sensor wouldn't set the alram off when using the hoe would it? i'll check the sensor and associated wiring as per your advise and hopefully it's a quick fix. thanks bowen, great advise! i'm worried now maybe the oil level in the transmission is low? is the dip stick is under the floor mat near the foot pedals for the hoe... i saw it when i was tracing wires. maybe it's as simple as a low oil level? no warning light comes on. i thought it would, but maybe if there is a short to ground making the guage screwy it's affecting the warning light too?
the alarm sounds when the key is turned on (not so far as to start machine). once running the alarm goes off... except one time when it was went off when using the hoe, and wouldn't go off again. i was done for the day anyway so i left the machine overnight and the next day alarm was normal again (on at start, off when running). i didn't use it a lot that day though, i was mostly checking to see if the batteries were still charged, that it started normally after repairs, and if that alarm was still yellin' at me. everything seemed really normal and good. pretty happy about that. i haven't run it a lot since the starter repair etc... so not sure how the alarm behaves on a regular basis. also, i wasn't driving the machine when the alarm went off i was using the hoe. that transmission oil sensor wouldn't set the alram off when using the hoe would it? i'll check the sensor and associated wiring as per your advise and hopefully it's a quick fix. thanks bowen, great advise! i'm worried now maybe the oil level in the transmission is low? is the dip stick is under the floor mat near the foot pedals for the hoe... i saw it when i was tracing wires. maybe it's as simple as a low oil level? no warning light comes on. i thought it would, but maybe if there is a short to ground making the guage screwy it's affecting the warning light too?
starting new thread.... original probelm okay now.... onto new one!