http://fortune-group.en.alibaba.com...09/Road_Construction_Machinery/Bulldozer.html Does anyone know anthing about these?
it probably has lead paint on it!
buy it come on bob you keep on about wanting a machine so if you buy it you could the tell us all how good or bad it is or are you waiting for the hitrack model to be released
At least it has a Cummins! Bet it has a big MADE IN CHINA sticker. :usa :usa DP
About a year ago I was in China at a huge trade show in Gangzhou - it had everything from kitchen ware to a copy of a Cat D6. I forget what the name of the company is but I think it was the same one who had a booth at Conex/Conagg in '04. ( They were outside at the lot across the street from the exhibition hall where Bobcat, Kobelco and Linkbelt had booths) They pretty much make copies of the Cat equipment. The fit and finish of the machine was - to put it lightly - awful. Terrible welding, thin sheet metal and had an overall appearance of a Ritchie Auction overhall (otherwise know as a Dupont overhall) yet is was brand new.:beatsme Now I can't comment on the machine referrenced but if it is anything like I saw from the other company - stay away!
Was just wondering if anyone had some first hand experience with them. They sell brand new at $195,000. If they could get them down to say 50k then they may have something, As long as they would last through the first set of tracks. I would like to test one for a month or so. It looks good in the photo's.
It looks like a ustamoK from the paint scheme, but otherwise looks very much like a new Dresta.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...5942799&guid=BA9AB5466462458380E3854DBEEABBEC Nope its a D155 Komatsu copy. Looks good in the picture. Wonder how the heat treat is on the critical parts? Its says same enjoy. How can you go wrong with that?
what is the weight of Cat D8L with SS ripper without Blade Hi, guys, i want to transport one Cat D8L dozer , now i need the exact weight of the machine with a SS ripper on it while the blade moved off . The udercarridge of it is suspended type . I cant find the data from cat 's website due to it is an old model , so if there is some one aware of it , Pls kindly tell me . Thanks in advance !:usa
what if i sell to you with 50k down .WIll you buy one ?
I don't have my D8L info handy here. I know they where heavier than the D155 Komatsu, that is why cat made them. And the Komatsu was in the 92,000 lb area. So I'm thinking that D8L is in the 95,000 range, of course depending on what is added to it. Without blade?? I would guess around 80,000 lbs. I'll check later today, someone else might know. Vansonix, What I would like to do, is be able to check one of the China dozers out. I know that they can do a decent job in China if they want to, even with all the problems lately with pet food etc. Like here in the US its not always a company's fault, it can be employees that are upset and make a bad name for the whole company. The pictures of that Copied Komatsu dozer look real good. And a good choice of a machine to copy. I would like the chance to check one out, it would need to spend some months on a job, to prove it is a durable and trouble free machine. I'm sure they tested it well in China, but it needs to be proven in places here in the US. The only problem I see is the US not allowing them here because of the new diesel emission requirements. To answer about the 50 down to buy one, Well like I said everyone would be leary about it without it being proven by some big companys that use them over here. Do you know if the Engine meets the tier 3 requirements? Do you know if Komatsu made parts will work on those China Dozers? It would be a good thing if they did, because the parts availability is what the big contractors want. You would have a hard time selling here without a dealer and parts supply. But if they are exact copies of Komatsu then that is a huge plus. I hope your not looking to copy that D8L. Highdrive isn't all that great. The Komatsu is much better.
Dozer575, for the D8L dozer , it was sold to one customer , just now i was getting headache in loading it ,now the problem is solved after confirming by removing the ripper .For China dozer , there are two technology ,one from Komatsu , one from Caterpillar , mainly from Komatsu , Only one Company HBXG now making dozers based Caterpillar technology like D7,D8 .For our dozer , i have the experence checked the drawings physically which has only few unimportant modification compared to komastsu D155-1 drawings in the undercarridge .Most part number of this machine ,we are still using the komatsu part number ,so you can understand for the compatible for the most parts ,there will be no problem .The engine now we use still doesnt meet the tier 3 requirements. About your said testing of the machines , One big company from NORway which makes famous dumper trucks is doing the testing job for us .Later they will raise some modification proposal and methods , i think .IF things go smoothly , they will sell our machines to USA , Europe .etc for us in the coming future . But according to my personal opinion, there is still long long way to go to satisify USA and Europe Market .
Vansonix, Actually as you can see by the high cost of used large dozers in america, that COST is a very important factor the people here would rather spend less on a used dozer than what a new one would cost. And yes being well known also is a big help. I sure wish I could give some feed back to that company that builds them, since I am an operator and a mechanic, I know what is good and works and what isn't so good. If I had the dozer here, the use of it would be the pay. What should be done is to operate it for a year or so, in all kinds of conditions such as clearing and dirt work, ripping rock. And then personally take everything apart and examine the condition of the parts. I would like to know how much attention to the chemistry of materials did they do? I mean are the alloys and heat treats close to the same as Komatsu? I realize that to keep a dozer in a certain weight class that you need to keep an eye on weight. But something to remember more weight is a good thing on a dozer, unless it is to operate in muddy ground. I hope they don't skimp on the strength of such things as the main frame, track frames by trying to keep weight down. You mentioned D7, D8. Do you mean the nice low track design? I am not a fan of those hidrives. Back to cost. At first the price of those machines will have to be very low to get people to even consider them. Once proven as a good machine, then as long as they are at the kind of cost they are now listed on the machinery trader site, you would have no competion. As far as tier 3, I wonder if it would work sending the complete dozer with out its engine. And the engine in a box as just parts. That way you are just selling parts and not a running engine. Though no dealer could put them together and sell them as new. The end user could though. As another note, look at all the equipment yards here in my state. You see all kinds of excavators and some small dozers for sale. There are no used large dozers in any lots, with exception of the Cat dealer, and that is because they want too much for them. Anytime a new Komatsu D155 or larger comes in at the Komatsu dealer it is soon gone. So whats that tell you? The China dozer place was very smart to pick the D155 and D355 size to do. They are big enough to do the job and easy enough to move on a truck. Keep up the good work.
vansonix, D8L -- BARE WEIGHT: 84026 lbs D8L SS RIPPER -- BARE WEIGHT: 9560 lbs (with standard shank) D8L 8S DOZER BLADE -- BARE WEIGHT: 11930 lbs All figures out of Cat Performence Handbook, edition #21 Good Luck.
Welcome to HEF vansonix! :drinkup
So where did you go Vansonix? Hmmm so if someone buys one that is how the service would be? Take the $ and run? LOL
Dozer575 ,if i want to take the $ and run away , why should i care about the weight of D8L . i was in my girl friend's home for just two days .Thank your guys who missed me so much.:drinkup
Surfer-joe, i checked the D8L data you provide ,and i am confused by the data of D8L compared to the data of D8R, why there is so big weight difference between this two model for the bare machine without ripper and blade . D8L -- BARE WEIGHT: 84026 lbs=38114 kg D8R-- BARE WEIGHT:I THINK IT SHOULD BE (THE OPERATING WEIGHT 82850 lbs/37576 kg -THE SS RIPPER WEIGHT 9005 lbs/4085kg -THE BLADE WEIGHT10074lbs/4570 kg =63771 lbs/28926 kg data of D8R out of Cat website So i am wondering if the D8L without ripper and blader really weights 38114kg.why the two models 'bare weight have almost 10 tons difference . If that is true ,i may face transportation problems again because the crane on the vessel only can lift not more than 34 tons goods ,which will be my nightmare .:Banghead :Banghead :Banghead Anybody else pls help me on confirming on this .Thanks !
Now we know the "Rest of the Story" GIRLFRIEND!!!!!!!!:cool2
I'm getting around 37,000 kg for the D8L as well. When Cat went from the L to the N-series tractors, some model numbers got bumped around -- so that could be your explanation as well.
Glad your back vansonix. The D8L was a bigger and heavier tractor than the following D8 hightracks. Cat needed all that weight etc to take on the D155 Komatsu wich would out perform the D8K, problem the new large size made it much harder for people to move them, so they had to trim it back down to what a D8 was supposed to weigh. If I remember the ROPS had to be removed on the L to get it to legal height. Also a note, since Cat was so worried about acceptance of the hightrack D8's they offered a rebuild program for the D8K, problem is what the heck good was that if you didn't have a machine to begin with. The only thing that kept cat company going with dozers is the "cat can't do anything wrong attitude" ie customer loyalty. Now think for a moment, what if a certain Japan manufacture was the first to introduce the hightrack dozer?????? Yeah that would have been the end of them in the large dozer business. It's like if Harley Davidson would stop making motorcycles and start making scooters, they would suddenly become all the rage. and all the ruff tuff harley guys would want one, cause its a harley made in the usa.
Comparisons. Hi, Dozer 575. (Or is it D8Bob????) I note you made the comment that the 'Kummagutsa' D155 would outwork the D8K. Surprise, surprise. Kummagutsa made VERY sure that the various Kummagutsa models had an edge over the supposed Cat equivalents in both weight and horsepower so anyone in their right mind would not be terribly surprised if the 'Brand X', machines DID out-perform the Cat machines. If the only thing that kept Cat in bulldozers when they made the switch to high sprocket drive was the "cat can't do anything wrong attitude", then why are they selling so well now. To the extent that many of the majors DownUnder who tried Kummagutsas have gone back to Cat.
You sure use a big brush to paint them Harley rider's. It doesn't seem to me all "dozer operator's" are the same. :beatsme Or, all Caterpillar owners/operators either. Matter of fact it seem's pretty hard to catagorize any group of people if you were to really think about it. Maybe you just haven't really thought about it yet though, huh?!
Yeah, take it easy on those Harley guys, I just bought a Harley Sportster DP
I imagine D8Bob would be a bit more meek if he were at a biker bar and actually facing the guys he speaks of. Bob, you certainly have been stirring the pot here lately.....are you looking for a vacation?
Yeah I got me one -o- dem Harleys although it's an old one (1965 Pan Head)she's still a Harley. And this is three that I see on this page that own Harleys and all are very different type folks. Seams all harley riders just ain't the same after all huh?
I've been bragging to everyone that I was just like you Wrenchbender, and now I find out I'm not. Dang it anyhoo!! I'd be willing to bet all the people and companies who've Cat equipment have arrived at their desicion to buy "Cat" for different reason's too. For "someone" to believe it's because their like sheep and would follow Cat anywhere is alittle ridiculous. People who've risen high enough to have control on the purse strings when it come's time to plop down $100's of thousands of dollars on equipment are alittle smarter than that.
Thank you guys for confirming the weight of D8L , also i learned more about the Komatsu and Caterpillar history , i think caterpillar chooser will think the cat is always the best in performing and durable working although the charge for both the machine and spares are higher than komatsu .i treat it as some kind of belief or brand loyalty , i myself like the cat dozer although i never drive one , i just like it because i think it is a sympol stand for American spirit and technology . But in the second hand machinery market in china, the cat dozer sells cheaper than Komatsu dozers all because more ppl from abroad especially from middle east like to buy komatsu dozers .They even would like to buy some bad conditioned komatsu dozers ,Compared to komatsu dozers , the condition of cat dozers are much better .These dozers retried from big construction group for government .They are not used much ,they are bought back for millions of RMB while sold as used very cheap.The models of them are G, H,K,L, N series often , only few R and T .Few chinese individual would like to buy the cat dozer because its spares are expensive and not like komatsu spares are very popluar in china .So the normal fate of these dozers are sold out to abroad as second hand .
someone also believed cat payed people to come on these sites and defend hi tracks ointhead i cant think of their name just now
I think that the above statement is a very simplistic view of the reason why owners/managers choose to purchase the machines they do. The goal of a business is to make money and to do this you buy the machine that will give you the most value for your money - this is not always the cheapest price. I purchase/operate Cat equipment for its value to me - both short term and long term. Of course dealer support and parts availability is very important and figured into the mix. I have demo'd and priced Komatsu's and Cat's every time I am purchasing a new machine. The Cat has not been more expensive than the Komatsu (sometimes the Cat's have been cheaper) nor are the parts more expensive for the Cat. In fact the parts from our local Komatsu dealer are considerably more expensive than Cat parts. We have priced filters, undercarriages and replacement cabs both from the Cat and Komatsu house and Cat beat the price every time. Cat was $3k less for a 320 undercarriage - using Cat parts- than Komatsu was pricing out Berco. Replacement cab for a PC208 - believe it or not Cat was $9k for a reconditioned cab and Komatsu was $12k for a reconditioned cab. (Don't ask why we need another cab for the 208 ointhead :Banghead ) It may be a special situation down here where you can price both Cat and Komatsu parts from the same dealer - but we do.:beatsme Of course this is all from my neck of the woods - I am sure pricing such as this fluctuates quite abit around the country and around the world. I may be in the minority of Cat owners because I do actually try the other brand before I buy a machine - since I don't put the blinders on and head to the Cat dealer every time. As far as Cat being a "patriotic" choice - I only have 1 Cat machine out of 9 that is made in the US, a D6RXW.
Not meaning to stir any pot. I see that american flag a flyin on this site and just figured a fella could speak his mind. Unless it was some filthy obsene kinda talk. Then I could understand a concern. Sorry to stir the pot.
China built equipment Says these guys are ISO 9001 compliant which should look after concerns re; alloys, heat treating, measuring and weight/volume aspects- should also look after welding/weld procedures but again qa/qc are only as good as the people administering it.
Welcome to HEF ronscons! :drinkup
I don't believe this at all. Here's your very first post at HEF: Couldn't even get through your intro post without a dig at Cat. You've 141 post's total now, of them 45 critisize Caterpillar directly. This type of snide crap is throughout many of your post's. What could be the purpose, other than to "stir the pot"? Here's your 8th to last post. And your 4th to last post. It's like a broken record. It's one thing to give an opinion, but you've made it plainly clear that Cat bashing is one of your primary objective's on this forum. I'm not even a Cat guy, and I'm thoroughly sick of it. You can play your "What's wrong.............I'm just giving my opinion.......I'm innocent?!" act all you want. Here's one of the forum rules you may have missed: What level does it have to rise to too be considered "trashing"? I'd sure think 45 out of 141 post total would meet that benchmark.
Statistics. Do they tell a story? UBETCHYA. Hi, JeffD. I think those statistics say an awful lot and than you for taking the time to sort them out and post them. Many of us have had little if any doubt about this 'gentleman's' intent for while now and I have held serious reservations for some time about his level of actual seat time too. Thank you for putting this member's posts so clearly in their true perspective. May I suggest that if he is so strongly anti-Cat, he cart himself off and find a Kummagutsa site to infest, if there is such a thing.
Okay Gentleman...lets see if we can't get this back on track please. ronscons: The fact that an organisation is ISO 9001 compliant is an indication of their certification level in business process, not necassarliy of the quality of product. It does not necassarily mean that a product produced by them complies with a specific industry standard unless they state it does. I can get ISO 9001 certification on my business but it doesn't mean that my retaining walls are guaranteed to comply with the standard. ISO 9000-2000 is more about the organisation and its internal processes. For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000 and a quote from that site:
Yes Squizzy is correct in that ISO certs are not a seal of quality. I once worked at plant that had to be ISO certified so we could ship our product overseas. This does not assure that no mistakes are made but rather the mistakes are consistant. Sounds strange but that is the way it was presented to us. So the big ISO on the package is to let you know we can repeat our mistakes on demand and to the letter.lol
That's good information to have. I too, always assumed it meant they met some sort of quality standard for products. Ya learn somthin new every day...
And if anybody's interested, here is ISO's website. I've been reading for about an hour now and am still a little lost...:beatsme International Organization for Standardization
How can you trust a standardization outfit that can't even get their own acronym in the right order??
As Yes you would be correct that it is an office type thing but not entirely. It also includes the day to day production quality and if I recall the set up package also includes a lot of sample type forms as well. Now as you talked about, your retaining wall may not necessarily conform to ISO standards, but that would become a question of integrity for your company to address. Advertising the item as ISO complient when it is not definitely as one can see is frought with all kinds of problems [false advertising just being one] It may also have implications to have certification for your company lifted. Yes definitely, many of the standards are not met by many companies. However its kinda like getting a speeding ticket and saying the speed signs are wrong [and sometimes that happens]. It does all come down to personal and corporate integrity and honesty. The standards are reasonably well set out, but it does rely on the human factor and how shady or upstanding that human design and inspection is at the plant etc. Much as some people might like, there cannot be a qc/qa cop at every forklift, conveyor line or truck and railcar terminal in the country. How many times have you heard though, its under warrenty and then find out the warrenty isn't worth the paper its written on. Like everything else we do, research and knowledge whether its a china dozer or a diamond ring. Sometimes ya pays yer money and takes yer chances!!