Friend of mine purchased a new but old military Case 1150 dozer. I am a Cat guy. When I run his dozer, I use the pedals as steering clutches as I am accustomed to that technique. The owner, who is not in the earthmoving business told me I would wear out his clutches and that I should only use the gear steering. It seems to me that the gear Steering would be MORE wear and not needed unless a specific task was necessary. For example, rolling a stump out of the ground in a turn, or Cutting a hard dirt wall. As I am a Cat guy, I find it hard to understand the BEST way to understand the Case gear steering. It seems that the DIFF steer on Cat dozers is a little different. Can anyone explain all of this clearly? I saw a video on youtube about how to operate a Case dozer. All it showed was how to go forward and backwards and left and right. NOT VERY CLEAR. Can We get some clarification on all of this? Thanks
This should help some. Only use the pedals when absolutely necessary. HeavyEquipmentForums
Using the gear steering gives u power on both tracks thru the turn rather than having one dead track, but I have found the case system has to big a difference in speed between the Hi and Lo speeds which makes for a very quick turn. IH had a 2 speed steering in their TD 20 E, TD 24, 25 & 30 where it was only a 25% difference in speed between hi & lo and you used it for all your steering all day long never had to clutch/ brake steer unless in tight quarters. As for wearing out the clutches, well they are all running in oil same as the transmission clutch packs so I guess that helps to reduce wear n tear. I myself when I have been on a case usually use the gear steering because u have power to both tracks all the way tru the turn, that been said, thats my 2 cents worth. Cheers.
Being a long term Case Equipment repair guy, I'll tell you how I think this thinking came about. The transmissions in Case crawlers (450;850;1150) are powershift - meaning you can change range & even direction on newer models with a minimum amount of deceleration required.... (discretion of the operator) The brakes on the early crawler models (up to about 1980) were dry friction discs. While Operator Manuals never really said to avoid using them for steering, it was found that if you did use them for steering, the brakes would wear out very quickly, wearing/stripping splines on the discs, wearing out housings, creating excessive heat to harden pinion seals - allowing leaking oil onto the dry brake linings - let's not forget to mention the PITA job it is to actually repair brakes on the smaller 450/850 Basically, this all created extra repair grief/expense - so owners & operators of these old "Case" machines abide by this unwritten law - "You steer your Case Crawler using the levers only". Since you mentioned your friend had an 1150, I'll stick to discussing 1150's from here onwards .... 1150 transmissions from the B model used wet brakes - this transmission design is very different from 450;850. The 1150B & later model brakes, used the same clutch plates as the rest of the transmission - basically creating 2 more clutch packs - eliminating the use of seperate brake master cylinders / linkages & expanding actuating discs. This brake design was a vast improvement & allowed the operator to feather the pedals to make small direction adjustments, while still applying full power from the engine. However, the range clutch packs, used piston seals that were designed to leak a little during application - the piston seals in the brake housings were a different design, a lip type seal that could seal 100%. Given time, these lip type seals begin to not work as efficiently & leak a little - but much more the the range clutch packs did - with the consequence of losing braking efficiency, & dropping some transmission oil pressure during application. So the "old school Case guys" still wouldn't use their brakes - unless they really had too. It's all about not wearing out the brakes & creating more operating expenses.
I think that explains it very well. As somebody who's had a Case 450 for a lot of years but also spent some time on Cat and Komatsu it's actually pretty easy to get used to the Case system - though it's maybe helped that the 450's don't normally have working brakes as the master cylinders are rarely working, which forces you to use the levers even if you didn't want to. It soon becomes quite intuitive to do it all with the levers and I quite like it - one hand controls your direction, two speeds and all your turning while your right foot sits on the throttle, all quite effortless with minimal movement on your part. Being able to turn with power to both tracks is a big improvement over the old Cat systems where pressing the pedal disengaged the drive, pushing it further applied the brake. The Case system means you can keep pushing while turning, rather than stopping with one track spinning! The only time you want to stop the track turning completely is to turn round in a tight spot, and I have to say that it's pretty rare that I find a need for it on the Case. Once you've got used to it you can often make a sharp turn by disengaging one track if you're moving a loaded bucket, especially backwards up a hill or over a ridge, where it'll then turn very sharply! Gentle turns are made by knocking one side out of drive in more gentle conditions, it's all about timing as to when you flick the lever in or out, you can be very precise.
---- Thank you for taking the time to write all that and help! I appreciate that. This dozer is an MC1150 Case. Marines dozer. 100 hours new. 1988 model. Does your information apply to this dozer? It is updated but the double lip seal eventually leak causing loss of transmission pressure? I can't help that I am a Cat guy. The double handles between my legs seem to be herky jerky and i visualize gear damage in my head when using them. I am sure I can develop a light touch after using the levers for a few days. Being a Cat guy...i crave that light clutch pull feeling when steering and loading the blade from the side. It seems that clutches would be the easiest item to replace with wear. But that may be a CAT thing and a Case may be harder to replace clutches. So, in regards to this NEW "old" Case dozer. It is best to try to NOT use the steering clutches? And by the way....I dont like to counter rotate ANY machine. Being an owner operator...I always make 3 point minimum turns. Unless it is a weird situation. THanks
I couldn't have said it any better Bill ! I spent quite bit of time on a 450. It may be worth noting that the detent tension is adjustable on the levers. Those levers can be miserable to operate it they are too stiff or loose.
Not a dozer driver but have clocked up a few hundred hours on a 1150B over the last 25 odd years . Never even sat on another dozer .The main driver steered with brakes but I much rathered the levers . Like bill said , on lighter work or backing up ,i would always put one side to neutral to steer , throttle back and reingauge after correction . Pushing a bit more , I would knock one side to neutral again and lift the blade a little to keep traction up on the one track and break the grip the pile had on the blade . Pushing any more or on softer ground then put one side to low at half or more throttle , and throttle back momenteraly before reinguaging high . I did most of steering in reverse ( I assume that is normal as nobody ever told me jack about it, just do it )using a combination of neutral some times accompanied with good blast of throttle or for sharper turns setting 1 hi, other low . All can be done very smoothly with a little time on the seat . I cant remember the last time I pushed any thing ,but one of the nicest machines I have ever driven even though it is loud ,rattly ,smelly and older than I am .
I am with the majority of comments about the gear steer vs the pedal steer. I much prefer the little levers between the legs, having cut my teeth on a 450 dozer back in the early 70's. Power to both tracks is awesome when the going is hard & turning while pushing is necessary & timing & technique is everything when shifting them. As one mentioned, lots of times just putting the one track in neutral is enough to nudge the machine in the desired direction for a more minimal direction change, as is shifting one track into neutral when going from forward to reverse or vise versa & using the powered track to help nudge you in the direction you wish to turn. BTW, after practically a 45yr hiatus from running a 450, I just picked up this one a month ago & am having fun helping a friend clean up his farm for getting it ready to sell. I am helping him for practically free, so guess who gets stuck with cleaning the tracks at night?? Not me!!
good explanation! Only use the lever and just bump the controls. - Cleaning those tracks makes a High Track Cat seem necessary! Hahaha. Lots of $$$$