A general question about newer diesel engines in excavators, loaders etc. Are they now computer controlled as the diesel pickups with all the sensors for coolant,rpm, air temp ,etc? The reason I am asking I was looking at a Volvo EC35 and the fuel gauge plastic was brown out from sun and unreadable ...asked parts dept for lens price and was told that complete panel had to be replaced at a cost of $3600.00 + and it was called a control unit. No gauges just LEDs. Deal buster for me. Thanks
All excavators manufactured today should have a Tier 3 engine in them. Tier 3 emissions can not be controlled mechanically as far as I know. Most Tier 2 engines had some sort of electronics on them. Tier 3 was generally just adding some sort of comon rail fuel system and egr. All of the sensors that you're reffering to should be on just about any engine newer than 2009.
Not only does the computer controll the engine but also the hyd pump flow and possibly the cab climate system. Great when they work, expencive when they dont.
Yikes..... I guess I'm glad I'm stuck at tier "1". B-)
Get ready, Tier IVi engines are already starting to be phased into excavators....get ready for electronics and more!
Everything is now being electronically controlled. Some machines can have up to 9 ECM's
we had a 270 deere that continually changed the engine speed.. I'm thinking a million times a day.. fuel saving mode or something... real annoying... mmm m mmmmm mm mmm m m mmm... I think about the only time it didn't was tracking.
yeh, you need a laptop for most troubleshooting problems these days, CAT ET is a pretty easy system to teach yourself on though
Had a Mitsubishi in the shop last week w/ white smoke problem, definitly fuel related. Checked the pump to engine timing, checked out dead on. Pulled the injectors and tested, all ok.. Did a compression test, all cylinders perfect.. Checked the injection pump, everthing tested perfect.. Put it all back togather and noticed the ABS light was on, in the dash panel.. Being a Mitsy you HAVE TO HAVE THEIR computer to read the codes.. Called the local dealer and they came and read them.. Come to find out> when the ABS lite comes on..it somehow effects the automatic[electronic] advance mechanism in the INJECTION PUMP!! and it wont advance the timing while running..***?? The 2 systems are not related!! I verified it by jumping the wires at the advance mechanism and the smoke went away.. Why the H*** would you have the brake system tied into the advance system?? Gotta love those computers!!??
Strongco tech told me the controller in my 2007 volvo ec240b can tell if there is a mechanical issue in one of the cylinders. He said if the ecu says the compression is low in a cylinder, that's all they need for a warranty repair. Pretty cool stuff. On the other hand, vandals smashed the display in the cab. The display has all the engine stats, plus operating timers, flow controls, and a bunch of other goodies. It was $4500 to replace. Computers, great when they work, suck when they don't.
If you'd have reached down and switched from A/A mode to A/I mode,it would have stopped doing that. It pains me to still see people wary of computers in their heavy equipment The performance that today's customer demands is just not possible with mechanical engine and hydraulic systems I would love to see a showdown between an old 690A or UH7(in good condition of course) vs. A 200 DLC or one of the new G series hoes. It would be kind of funny actually.
Its not being wary of computers in equipment as much as the cost. Manufactures do not make computer systems reliable and easy to work on.For the money they charge systems should have 100% backup with on-board diagnostics.Electronics are cheap to make and computers make equipment better.The dealer gets the better deal on equipment that has lots of electronic controls/sensors they can charge high mechanic rates as well BIG bucks for parts. It all comes down to you must go back to the dealer for repair/parts.
we had a demo on a scan tool the other week which was pretty handy, did all light vehicles and jap/euro trucks for around $6000.. the same spec Bosch units are about double the price lets you check and adjust all your functions, check sensors and switches as well as cylinder cut out tests and reset the burn on the new EGR systems
I'm a little confused. I was at strongco the other day. A tech told me both the volvo and Case hoes were running EGR and particulate filters, no DEF. I got wondering about the DEF because CNH has gone DEF on the ag engines since the start of 2011. Went to the CASE CE website, they advertise their hoes as running TierIII engines. I thought we were in Tier IVi by now. No? Ken
i think, and correct me if i'm wrong, some of the biggest changes in '11 emmissions were to engines under 100 hp. for the past few years, T3 and interim T4 has been out in the smaller engines, most of them using EGR systems regulations tightened up on the smaller engines, and sometime midyear (when the supply of "older" engines runs out), the new engines will have to meet the '11 emissions. that means common rail EFI, DPF, EGR, and some will need DEF :drinkup
The later model Toyota Landcruisers ('98-on) come with two transponder keys, a Master & Valet. Lose both keys, and you have to replace the ECM (which contains the security system), plus a large chunk of wiring harness, and pull half the dash out, to do so. The total repair cost runs to around AU$2500. So much for modern "electronic efficiency".
I am a bit suspicious of ECM's and sensors in construction equipment because of the excess shock,vibration and heat. However electronic engines have totally proven themselves in boats and heavy trucks.Of course it has taken our shop to a new level of diagnosis and has forced us to stock "key sensors" for the engines we use,but the efficiency,durability and increased horsepower now available with electronically controlled engines has made it all worthwhile. A few things we learned the hard way about them are these. Add a fuel conditioner that includes a lubricant to low sulphur fuel,make sure you use the correct micron rated fuel filters,as the higher tier injectors require cleaner fuel and always make sure ECM and sensor cable plug-ins are on securely before and after pressure washing an engine.
Computers/ECM's/ECU's should be cheap As well as heavy equipment work, I also have been a reseller of Apple computer equipment for many years. One thing about computer equipment that we all use to participate in this forum is, that over the years it has become cheaper, more powerful, easier to use and more reliable. (Well at least that's been my experience with Apple products.) So theoretically computers controlling engines and other aspects of heavy equipment should be a good thing. Replacement screens/Computers/ECM's/ECU's should be cheap and easy for users to configure within desirable limits. You should be able to program your machines Computers/ECM's/ECU's with your iPhone/IPad etc with ease, and even download preconfigured, approved, control options developed by other heavy equipment users into your own machine to try. Considering the use of common parts such as hydraulic controls, motors etc, the excuse that each brand of machine has to have unique computer equipment, is not really valid. This increases the cost as each manufacturer produces smaller volumes of incompatible computer control systems. I can't see that users and owners should find it acceptable for this situation to continue. Just think if a significant manufacturer said that "as well as using the inbuilt computer control module you could use your iphone as an alternative interface." Modern mobile phones already have significant features used by many equipment computer systems such as gps, wireless communication, bluetooth and of course significant computer power. I would be surprised if any inbuilt HE computer systems had the power that modern microelectronic devices now have. In fact many HE and motor vehicle computer systems use legacy computer CPU's etc that have been long superseded in modern desktop/laptop computers. These older components are also very cheap which makes the excessive cost of replacement ECU's/ECM's etc even more galling. And the fact you need an expensive technician to come along with their own specialised laptop with proprietary software to diagnose your problems is just a way of extracting more cash. There is no reason why many problems known by the machines ECU/ECM can't be made clear in plain English/other language on its screen or to your own laptop, iPhone/iPad etc rather than obscure codes. When it's a problem that requires mechanical and engineering skills then your device can tell you to call the required skilled people. What I'm basically saying that computer controls on heavy equipment could be great and without the disadvantages and costs stated in this thread. We're just being reamed by manufacturers with proprietary ECU/ECM profit making centres with attendant expensive tech support. What if they caught up with modern technology and made the needs of the customer paramount in this area. Feel free to give feedback. AusDave
What I'm basically saying that computer controls on heavy equipment could be great and without the disadvantages and costs stated in this thread. We're just being reamed by manufacturers with proprietary ECU/ECM profit making centres with attendant expensive tech support. What if they caught up with modern technology and made the needs of the customer paramount in this area. AusDave[/QUOTE] Agree with you 100% . I too have a electronics back ground and see no reason for excessive pricing other that gouging the purchaser .The electronic assembly should self testing and easy to replace with a replacement cost equal of a starter or alternator . The whole idea is to keep you tied to the manufacture/dealer, its all about money.
It took a government law to force auto manufacturers to install OBD connections in cars. It will take that and more to get the same thing for equipment.