The Deere G Series units with Grade Pro Option, has a feature called cross slope, which when enabled lets you dial in a % of slope you want, and you can pick which end of the blade will be controlled by the blade controller. You merely have to control one side of the blade, to cut to the desired slope, as I understand it. I can think of some applications for this but, I am curious what some of you think.
Wow, that sounds very interesting! Probably wouldn't be bad for slopes of course, but you could convert your camber fall to a percent and dial it in, which would minimise the number of passes when maintaining a road... but, hey, I'm no expert on grading, but that sure would be useful, especially where roads either have too much or to little of a camber on them... Grader experts?
Before departing Caterpillar’s MG Division I told my bosses that they needed to lead the governmental market into using slope control, offer it as optional equipment. The biggest problem I have seen with road maintenance operators is they don’t build or maintain the proper crown in the straight-aways and don’t build proper supers in the corners. Too many parabolic crowns and supers, which leads to standing water. Standing water leads to potholes. It’s also impossible to plow snow off a parabolic shaped road with a straight cutting edge. You leave snow behind, which leads to ice all the while your cutting edges go away in a hurry right in the middle. A proper crown with good drainage leads to extended maintenance intervals. A road with consistant cross slope is safer road. These are all the things I told my boss 10 years ago. Good economics. Good move on Deere’s part. Slope control is like moldboard cruise control, anyone that thinks they can drive a car at a more consistant speed than cruise control can is fooling themselves. An operator doesn't know there's an error until it gets under the tandem tires, by then it's to late. The slope sensors are mounted right on the circle and in some cases can be mounted right on the back of the moldboard. I’ve been using slope control on scraper haul roads for years. You can’t beat it! Randy
I would have to agree Randy! Slope control is something that will benifit Contractors or Counties to keep the slope constant. I have a Highway Supt. that is looking forward to gettting one of these new graders with the Slope Control built in.
One of the suppliers of GPS systems has it built into the system. If you don't use the gps and/or laser you get the slope controll at hand. Functions exactly like it was described at the deere video. Some graders over here start off with the simplest system that mainly contains the slope controll and one laser resiever. Or a ultrasound system on one side.(microfyn)
Cat has offered optional cross slope control on MG's for several years now. It's a shame that the dealers have not promoted it. It is an awesome system.
I am curious....what do you consider "several" years? Before the M series? How do you put an automatic cross slope system on a MG with manual valves without a paralell valving system? I don't see a factory option for it on the current 140M specalog .
ok....after some more digging I found more information on the Cat cross slope system. Although this is shown to be a "Cat" system, its nothing more than an add on Trimble cross slope system that can be put on any MG. The advantage of the Deere system is that it comes standard equipment on the GP machine. It is a built in system to the Deere grader and is much more cost effective way to get this functionality.
Cat began offering the AccuGrade Ready Option in May 2005. The AccuGrade valves and harnesses were factory installed. This made the "aftermarket add-on" Trimble valves, wires, etc. unnecessary. The addition of a blade slope sensor, mainfall sensor, and blade rotation sensor, gave us the cross slope system. It is somewhat true that these are "Trimble" components. They were actually developed and manufactured by the CTCT (Cat Trimble Control Technologies) joint venture, and were branded Trimble and/ or Cat AccuGrade. When the M Series Grader was released, every Grader became "Grade Control Ready" and now only require the installation of the sensors and a few extension harnesses. Redundant valves are no longer necessary since we now have "Electr-Hydraulic controls". I have not seen the Deere version, but would bet that the sensors are not manufactured by Deere, but purchased from a Grade Control manufacturer, pretty much the same as Cat. Not knocking the Deere version at all. It is good to see them catch up with Cat. Just don't want everyone to think Deere was the first to do this. Cat offered the first factory integrated grade control systems.
A long time ago Long before the others had a system Caterpillar did. Pictured below is my running mate for 5 years. It was in a 1978 14G. I put a lot of hours on this thing and about as many calibrating all the components. It was a very complicated system to work on, but man did it work well. It was mechanical over electric over hydraulic. The drawbar bolster ball was hollow (machined out) and the resolver (pictured) was inside the ball. It was connected to electronic accelerometer at one end and a cam timing box at the other. The cam timing box was connected directly to the circle drive so this was how the system kept track of the moldboard angle and this was what rocked the pendulum, which the accelerometer was mounted to. You calibrated the slope control using adjustable electronic potentiometers. It used a wand style servo to move the hydraulic spools and a parallel hydraulic system. This same servo valve was used in many aircraft for controlling the tail rudder, extremely expensive. It used the Wheatstone Bridge principle. The gentleman who designed the system for Cat left Cat and went to work for a defense department contractor designing missile guidance system. He was an absolute genius, but very down to earth. This same Caterpillar Blade Control system was first introduced on the 12F,14E & 16 straight frames. Cost and complexity ended it's career. I keep this in my display case. Makes a great conversation piece. Regards, Randy
Randy- VERY COOL piece of history there. I would have kept one of those around as well. As far as the semantics of who did what first is really pointless today. All I know is that if you order a GP grader you get EH controls, you get a cross slope system & you can plug and play either of the leading grade control systems (Topcon or Trimble). That is why Deere gives customers the power of choice. Choice of controls, choice of grade control systems, choice of scarifier mounting and choice of steering system. I know there are folks on here that praise the M series and others that don't really care for it. I think Deere's philosophy is not to force a customer to change if they don't want to. I think another point that gets lost in the "joysticks are better than antler racks" debate is serviceability. If those of you that have performed maintenance on an M series and think its pretty good should really take a look at the G-series. Easily accessed and grouped filter banks, swing out coolers, never grease joints, keyless start with security codes, and programmable auto shutdown.....all standard equipment makes the the G-series much easier (and cheaper) to maintain. The M's are ok machines and Cat definitely upped the MG ante with the joysticks. I think what Deere has done with the G-series is upped it again.
Hello Randy , I found in my picture archieve a pic from an old Caterpillar no.12 with a Preco cross slope and a note from Caterpillar , i hope you like it .
Automatic blade control Hallo Randy , On an old Caterpillar brochure from a 14E from 1970 stood a pic of a different automatic blade control i will let u see .
Roel, that looks and sounds like the system that CMI had on their grader. Again that was something from the late 60's/early 70's.
Hello Tom , How old can that Preco automatic blade control be , the pic i have post from the Cat. no 12 with the Preco automatic blade control ,are from a serie pics from Caterpillar in the late therty,s , and do you mean the CMI grader like the pic i post ?
yes Roel, thats the CMI grader. the pic and control I was referring to was the one from the 70's model 14. But if the other one worked in the 30's, its probably still working somewhere today.
Thanks for the answer.
Keep Posting those pictures! Roel The picture of the 14E Grade Control is the same Wheatstone Bridge Principal system, which I mentioned. The control box was different on the straight frames, but used the same electrical meters (same part #) and the same adjustable potentiometers. On the straight frames they used two meters (one for grade, one for slope) on the G Series the control box used one meter and a selector switch for the meter (second switch from the right, select grade or slope). The straight frames also used the same ball resolver, accelerometer, cam timing box and bull’s-eye level on the circle. The G Series had 2 additional accelerometers mounted behind the lift cylinders, which were part of the stabilization control. I don’t believe the straight frames had this, but the rest of the system worked the same and calibrated the same. I have my old operator’s manuals for this thing some where in all my grader memorabilia. If I can find it I’ll post a picture. There was a CMI aftermarket system for installation on motor graders, but it was totally different from the Caterpillar Blade Control system. I was on a 14G in 1986, which had a CMI system. When we could get it to work it did a beautiful job. It was a high maintenance system. The CMI system had a tracking table mounted on the back of the circle for monitoring moldboard angle. Way different concept than Caterpillar was using. They also had hydraulic pucks for locking the circle and side shift in place when the system was turned on. They used this same theory on their own G55 & G65 Auto Grader. There were four pucks on the circle and two on the side shift. These pucks took all the free play/slop out of the circle & SS for finishing, actually a neat concept. You just couldn’t circle or side shift when the system was on. I never got to personally run a CMI Autograder, but worked for a contractor that had one in the early 80s. They also did beautiful work, but required a degree in Rocket Science to work on. I always thought that hydraulic front axle was a great concept. Regards, Randy
Thanks Andy for your explanation . i did not working with ABC bud with Moba , Agtek and later with Topcon , i was one of the first who was working with GPS in Europe , and now i am from the first of Januari retired .Bud maybe i cant some people help with grader problems and i have a lot of grader pictures .
Retire? Roel I wish you the best on your retirement and look forward to reading more of your posting on HEF. I will be eligible for retirement next year, but have no plans to do so. I still enjoy the work and all the adventures. Just arrived at Kogru yesterday on the northern coast of Alaska to start another adventure. Checkout that satellite dish on top of the camp and my new Foreman Pickup (with a blade) so I still practice my grading skills. Here we worry about “cross wind” and not too much about “cross slope”. Please keep in touch. Regards, Randy
Very interesting stuff, our local trimble dealer has one of those old cat blade control systems sitting on display in his office. Looks exactly the same as Randys' system. A contractor I worked for bought a brand new 140H a couple years ago with cross slope and the operator never used it even once. The poor guy is illiterate so it's not really his fault the thing scares him
I started running a 14g in 1989 with a topcon system 4 cross slope system.There is nothing better for blue top work.I'm now running a 140H with a old Spectra percesion "bladepro" system,this system works just as well.After I make my grade (at the bluetop) I can set the toe on the previous pass and the heel will carry whatever % of cross slope I want.Highway contractors have been using these systems for years because DOT specs.require tight tolerancesi.e. + or - 1/4 inch or less.I can also a tracer on the end of the blade and trace the previous pass or a curb etc. These systems won't make you a "finish" blademan but they sure help. My stringline crew sure likes it! I can make grade with them only checking the road once.Nobody likes a blademan that makes them walk up and down the road 4or5 times checking grade! BTW,the spectra percesion company was bought by Trimble,and they have a joint venture with caterpillar.Cats acugrade system is a trimble system with cats name on it.
Very intereting.... I have compared both units M VS GP and I really think Deere has done a very good job with the GP series... Also the operation is much more easier than with the joystick on the M.
I am no expert on auto blade controls but I heard the other day that the cross slope feature Deere offers is not expandable. Meaning that if you decide to run more than just cross slope that you will still have to invest in an after market setup therefore doubling your investment. I am open to correction but that is just what I heard.